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Up Your Average is the “no nonsense” podcast made for interesting people who think differently. Learn to navigate your life with unconventional wisdom by tuning in to Keith Tyner and Doug Shrieve every week.
We had a client, and this was so sad. They had a ton of money. And when one of them died, the surviving spouse said, man, Doug, we we could have gone to Hawaii. So she wanted to go to Hawaii. They had the resources to do it, but he never knew the depth of her wanting to go there with him.
Doug:And so do that. If you can define whatever it is that would be a successful retirement, go do it.
Caleb:Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and Doug give no nonsense advice to level up your life. So buckle up and listen closely to Up Your Average.
Keith:Good morning, Doug.
Doug:What's up? What's up? What's up?
Keith:It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. I am excited about the fall time.
Doug:Yeah, I am too. Well, I'm just excited about life.
Keith:Me too.
Doug:Life's good. I mean, when you live in Indiana, you have a hard four seasons like fall is legitimately good. So is summer.
Keith:I have a favorite thing in the woods during the fall, and that is picking up a walnut and chucking it at something or somebody.
Doug:Is At somebody?
Keith:I mean, generally not at somebody. In my in my younger days, we did have all that fight. So I have, you know, I have to resist that temptation as an old guy.
Doug:We did our annual fall thing last week. We had a lot of fun. We went and picked apples. One of our boys, me, Caroline, and my father-in-law, Larry, who turns 80 coming Happy birthday. Thanks.
Doug:Yeah, go Larry. And we we picked like seven, eight, five gallon buckets full of apples. And Caroline's been making applesauce. And it's just a beautiful thing. Fall is a beautiful thing.
Doug:Life is a beautiful thing.
Keith:I know I'm going to sound like a just a kid who fell off the apple cart is I celebrated Rosh Hashanah.
Doug:Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know you did. You sent me pictures of your celebrations.
Keith:Yes. And it was in honor of our friend Stan, and it is the celebration of the Jewish New Year. And with that, it was tied back to the apples. It was apples with honey on it. And what I learned about their celebration is that it's it's it's a way to look for a pleasant and sweet year.
Doug:Yeah, that's so cool.
Keith:That was one of my highlights that I had fun with this week. So that was good.
Doug:Yeah, right on.
Keith:Next week, I have a friend retiring and I thought we might offer some advice and do it in a anonymous way with a hypothetical character by the name of Paul Williams.
Doug:Alright, I have a picture in my mind of who Paul Williams is.
Keith:Paul Williams is, we're going to call him 60. Okay. What would his wife be named? What would Paul who would Paul be married to? Bridget.
Keith:Bridget Williams is 60 as well. I don't know any Bridget's from my age, but I guess there would be a Bridget. Bridget Bardo, maybe. Bridget is 60 and she retired a couple years ago. And so I thought we could do three things before Mr.
Keith:Paul Williams in celebration of his October 1 retirement. One of the things is normally when we've I would say it's fair to say we've helped hundreds of people retire from Gimbal Financial over the years, and a lot of the work we do is prior to the October 1 time where we sit down, talk through the numbers, talk through the risks, talk through the possibilities. And so this is the decision is made. So what do we do now? And with that, let's jump into if Paul Williams was sitting here right now, Doug, and you wanted to offer him some caution as he goes into retirement, what would be a couple, two or three pieces of cautionary insight you might offer him today?
Doug:Yeah. Well, one of the things that comes to mind is is just retirement is is such an emotional decision. There's a lot of emotions that go into it. And I'd want to know, like, how did he get here? How did he get to this place?
Doug:Had he always been dreaming of age 60? Or did he get ticked off at an email that was sent to him and then decided today is my day that I'm retiring? And so 'd want a little bit of the backstory. But, the main reason I'd be asking those questions is to figure out, hey, Paul, what are you retiring to? You know, I hear you about what it's been like, but what are you retiring to?
Doug:What are the things that are going to keep you alive, climbing out of bed in the morning, and focused on a purpose filled life?
Keith:Boy, that's a good word. I was visiting one of the people that trained me in Louisville earlier this week. He is, if my memory serves me, 93. So had he retired at 60, that's thirty three years.
Doug:And that's what you have to plan for.
Keith:You have to plan for thirty years. And while I was sitting there talking to him, Caleb was sitting next to him, and over the top of his head, I saw somebody walk into the restaurant, and I heard somebody announce that fella's name. I'm in Louisville. I don't know anybody in Louisville. And then I asked this fella, I said, that guy's name is this, Is that would that guy have trained me thirty five, forty years ago?
Keith:And it was.
Doug:So
Keith:there were two people. This guy was probably a little younger than our our friends, so he was probably he probably if he had left at 30, he or at 60, he probably had been at least twenty five years retired. And so that that retirement's a long time.
Doug:Yeah. You know, and and another concern would be, hey, are you willing to be thinking long term? Or are you are you making an in the moment decision? And so from an investing standpoint, are you are you willing to understand that you're going to be a long term investor, even though you're hanging up your earnings years.
Keith:Well, and when we talk about that, I don't know if we've said it on up your average before. But if you just think back ten years and flip the calendar back ten years, what's happened in the markets in ten years? Yeah. You go back twenty years, what's happened in the market? We used to be able to, you know, say 09/11 was in that, who could predict?
Keith:Now you gotta go back 25 for 09/11, basically. But if you then flip the calendar forward, you have no idea what's gonna happen in your thirty plus years of retirement.
Doug:What do you think? What are some of the things that come to your mind?
Keith:Well, cautionary wise, I wrote down a couple prime things that I would caution you to do. One is to get physical. Like, don't retire to a recliner. I think that's really a Did
Doug:you say retire to recliner? Yeah. Man, can you, like, trademark that or
Keith:something? That's that's pretty good. I just have a I have a mental picture of what that looks like.
Doug:Yeah. I'm picturing like, you could sell that to La Z Boy. Yeah.
Keith:Like the one we just put it in the basement of Gimbal. And and so get physical, and I also think get a physical because there's some decisions you'll have to make in your sixties that has to do with your health. Like when do I turn the switch on with Social Security? Well, if there's a health limitation, I would say probably you want to turn it on sooner than later to get what you have coming to you. But so the get physical and get a physical would be some cautionary things.
Keith:And then secondly, I would say update your estate documents because you may not have them. Like, a lot of people don't have them. So today is the day to get them. And then secondarily, I would instruct the role bearers. I would not just get the documents and have them sitting on a shelf somewhere, but the role bearers that you're going to need in retirement might be your executor, your trustee, your healthcare power of attorney is the one that I'm really thinking about, because my experience has said most people, as they get more years under their retirement days, are more hard headed and less likely to listen to feedback when they might need it most.
Keith:So if you need to quit driving, which you don't add sixty, then maybe seventy five, and those years will go fast, to sit down with the role bearers in your documents and give them permission to live out those roles, I think is some cautionary advice I'd offer.
Doug:Yeah, that's that's all good. I think another one that I would really focus on what what's her friend's name? Bridgette I would I would have a real honest conversation. I'd say, I'd say, Hey, Paul, have you and Bridget had a real deal crystal clear conversation on your hopes, your visions, and your fears about retirement. Like what, what happens when all of a sudden you're at home or she's at home, the income spigot is not turned on yet.
Doug:I mean, you haven't flipped on social security. You're not 62 yet. You're not 67 yet. You're not 70 yet. And so, you know, what what are your visions, your your your fears?
Doug:How are you going to handle giving money to one of your kids? You know, when one of you wants to do it, and the other one doesn't want to do it? I mean, what what would that look like? And so I I think these discussions are all centered around, again, the the kind of the the the more emotional sides of of money type decisions. And very few couples talk about anything of importance anyway.
Doug:I know it's hard. I'm married too. But talking about money and retirement, that's one that you really have to spell out together.
Keith:I would and I think right in that same lane, Doug, is at 60, talking about your health with one another is probably less emotional than at 75. So probably right now is the time for the two of you to have a cup of coffee and say, what are we going do when one of us gets sick? How are we gonna move forward with that? And I know nobody wants to have that conversation, but I don't if if you don't have it, you probably aren't going to have it. Like, it's just gonna be one of those things that's in the room, that big old elephant that nobody wants to talk about.
Keith:And while you're healthy, while you're both healthy, let's just talk about it today, put some some guidelines out there and how are we gonna bring you know, if one of our kids is the health care power of attorney, how are we gonna bring them into the process so that they might be involved in helping whichever one isn't sick first, right?
Doug:And that's a great segue into, hey, the conversation of one of us is probably going to live ten to fifteen years after the other one.
Keith:Most likely. That's been our experience.
Doug:So what does that look like for us? You know, what type of home do we want to be in? When do we want to make that move? When do we want to clear out the attic and actually move into a place that one of us could live in for those ten or fifteen years? Boy, that's It's getting maybe simplifying things.
Keith:Yeah. So those cautionary things, of those things are fun to even jump into, but I think it's a gift to everybody involved if you're willing to do that. Let's jump over to just straight up advice. So Paul is sitting there, and he didn't really ask for our advice, but we're going to give it to him. So so so what is the first?
Keith:Is that Wednesday? So that's his first day. So we'll say Thursday. What's what's your advice for him Thursday going forward?
Doug:Well, my my first advice would be, hey, Paul, you you picked a pretty good time to retire. I think a lot of people think I'm going to work until year end. And that's cool if you are retiring and your residence is in Miami. But if your residence is in Carmel, Indiana, January 1 is a lousy time to retire. So way to go, Paul, I would just encourage you to just enjoy a couple of weeks of just some downtime.
Doug:Don't don't have anything planned. Just enjoy a couple weeks of downtime.
Keith:That fits in with one of my straight up pieces of advice is sometimes the ramping up for retirement, there's a lot of moving parts. And our friend Mark Minervini brought in, I don't even know if you were there, a trainer to teach us how to box breathe. And box breathing is basically breathing in four seconds, holding it four seconds, and breathing out. And the process of that is to relax your body, and probably your body's been stressed out a little bit coming into retirement. Oh, man.
Keith:You don't necessarily have to box breathe, but I wrote down just breathe.
Doug:Like I get all worked up if I leave Gimbal for a week. I'm like ramping up to leave Gimbal for a week. Do you get that leg? And can you imagine if you're trying to finish like with as much integrity and on top as possible? That's a lot of pressure.
Keith:Right. It I would guess it's gonna take you six months to even know what happened. Like, in six months, I think your body is gonna recognize, wow, I had a lot more stress on me than I thought. So box breathing, if you want to give it a shot, you can Google it and they'll tell you how to do it. Here's a key piece of advice.
Keith:This is I think it's safe to say I know about retirement, even though I haven't done it like most people. I defined it as doing what I want to do back in 1996, and I've lived that kind of retirement. I do what I want to do, not arrogantly, but I've gained control of my time. And there's not a lot I do anymore than I'm not willing to just say I want to do that. But here's what I would encourage you, having walked through retirement with many people, create your own news.
Keith:We don't have local newspapers so much anymore that have like what's going on in the community. You have some local TV news, but a lot of things in the news are sent to you from some talking heads in some place that don't really know what's going on. And if you create your own news, you don't have to watch the news anymore. And creating your own news might be, what am I going to do in my community to make a difference? And I think that piece of advice will give you a more uplifted mindset for your entire retirement than watching news.
Doug:Yeah, I think that's a great call. I think quick little check ins are, are good to do too. That could be with your kids, that could be with your financial advisor, but, but not like long, you know, two hour check ins, just quick little check ins with each other so that you're actually staying current and staying on people's radar. Because it'd be easy to just drop off and do your own thing.
Keith:Right. Right. And and with with that idea of creating your own news, I think how you create your own news is expand your friendship. Because really, only I don't know you know, we could worry about what's going on in Africa today or whatever. But if I expand my friendships, and then they become my news and they become my curiosity, then really interesting things will happen.
Doug:Man, maybe just watch a couple episodes of Up Your Average the last few weeks. That's what they should do their first week of retirement. I mean, we've got some good expand your world view stuff out there.
Keith:They should click like and share. That's what we say. But one of our friends, Gene, he was sharing with me and kind of our my prep work for this that he has volunteered in retirement and he's golf course ranger. And in that, it's a repetitive type of volunteering thing. So with a volunteering event, repetition will expand your friendships because you're going to see the same people over and over again.
Keith:And one of the things that you might not consider as you're going into retirement that you're unplugging from friends that you sit in the same room with every day. And so the idea of volunteering and adding new friendships may not if you're an introvert like me, it may not be easy to add friendships, but if you volunteer someplace, you're going get a repetition of new people back in your life.
Doug:Yeah. I think another piece of advice that I would give as a financial advisor is I'd want to talk about how do you want to be paid in your retirement? Like, you do you do you want a paycheck to come in on a monthly basis? Do you want a paycheck to go annually? Or do you just want to, when you need money, call?
Doug:And in different strokes for different folks. I mean, you all have unique strengths. And so I want to figure out about Paul and Bridget and just how they've operated in the past. If they like a monthly paycheck coming in, they can do that. And I think it just needs to be reinforced that you've got options.
Doug:You don't have to do it like your friend did it or like your dad did it. You can you can create your own solutions.
Keith:Absolutely. Absolutely. And and I think getting into my my final thing I threw out to you, Doug, was what challenges would you offer to them? How would you challenge them to jump into their future at this point? And one of them goes along.
Keith:One of them I had written down with that idea was I wrote down inflation is real. When I first got in the investment business in the eighties, they just pounded that into our heads as young stockbrokers that you need to let people know inflation is real. That was coming out of the seventies and eighties where we had like hyperinflation and so your money would just vaporize really, really quickly. And I still hype on that with you guys. I send you the anchor out once a year with about 100 stamps on there to point out how your money is shrinking.
Keith:It's not the retailers, it's not your grocery, it's your government that's shrinking your money. And if inflation is real, how am I going into retirement going to address that? And not many financial advisors would say this, but this is what I'm going to tell you. Spend some money today. Yeah.
Keith:Because if you want to go to Europe, it's not going to get cheaper twenty years from now. So why not go do it today while you're spending current dollars on something that's going to cost a lot more down the road? Plus you're healthy. Yeah. And and so spend some money today to offset inflation.
Keith:That's kind of a you're probably not gonna hear that from a lot of financial advisers, but it's a way to chase your dreams today while you're healthy and do it with similar dollars to the cost of things.
Doug:I think just again, defining what a successful retirement looks like for for Bridget, ask her, hey, what what does a successful retirement look like to you? And then for Paul, for Paul to define it himself, like we had a client, and this was so sad, they had a ton of money. And when one of them died, the surviving spouse said, Man, Doug, we could have gone to Hawaii. That's what she said, we could have gone to Hawaii. So she wanted to go to Hawaii.
Doug:They had the resources to do it. But he never knew the depth of her wanting to go there with him. And so do that. If you can if you can define whatever it is that would be a successful retirement, go do it.
Keith:That may have been one of my that conversation may have been one of my defining moments as a financial advisor. Like, there there was legitimate anger in that conversation, and it was kind of heartbreaking-
Doug:It was.
Keith:To realize that money the money in both of them have subsequently passed away. The money there's a proverb that says you don't know who will inherit your money. And that's kind of what happens is you don't know what's going to happen. And I think along the lines also, Doug, with the inflation is to not sell yourself short. Like the gig economy is alive and well.
Keith:And if you need to you probably need to expand your social network, whether you think it or not. Having watched this long enough, you probably do. It's going to get skinnier and skinnier over time. And so one the pieces of advice I got from someone is that they decided they were gonna just do one gig, like one consulting thing, and backfill that in there. It does a number of things.
Keith:That money will help you with inflationary issues. It'll keep you relevant. It'll and it'll add to the broadening of your friendships.
Doug:Yeah, I mean, I can think of a couple really strong, awesome, successful retirements that we've been able to have relationships with here at Gimbal. And both of these guys went back to work doing something that they just really liked. And it might have brought in $15,000 18,000 extra a year. I'm not talking about, you know, slaving over that the desk or the keyboard. But those little add ons, the money was great, the 15 to 18 was great.
Doug:But really, it was just the purpose factor, and doing what they were cut out to do.
Keith:And we talked, I think in a recent Up Your Average about expanding your world, but also what is your worldview. And if you've not taken time to think about purpose, I would really encourage you to go find a shade tree or go for a walk in the woods and explore that idea. Because I think the more purposeful you can live today, tomorrow, and the next day, whether you're Caleb's age or you're Paul retiring at 60, a purposeful life is just one of the most meaningful things there is.
Doug:Yeah. Just don't sit under a walnut tree.
Keith:Or sit near it because you might get clocked.
Doug:Here
Keith:here's you had mentioned look at some up your averages. I I like they're available on most of the podcasting things, but I like the YouTube versions of them.
Doug:It's easier to find them on YouTube, I think.
Keith:Right. And they're all numbered and sequential out there if you look properly. That wasn't good. So what I would say is watch Up Your Average number 16. Which one's that one?
Keith:That's with Mitch Anthony.
Doug:Oh, yeah. Tell us who Mitch Anthony is.
Keith:Mitch Anthony wrote a book called The New Retire Mentality. Here's a version of it right here. Highly recommend it. Mitch is a great man. He's a great friend of Gimbal Financial and has been for many, many years.
Keith:And and so that interview was just us talking to him about retirement and mindsets that you might want to have. And so if you are a reader and you're in retirement, this is a great read. It's a good one to give somebody who is retiring. But yeah, watch that video.
Doug:Think of Mitch Anthony from time to time. He's like, you know, like Jerry Maguire had, his mentor, Dicky Fox, who would like come into play and with a quote or with something great to say. And Mitch Anthony, he he just like Keith's mission, he thinks differently about retirement.
Keith:And we'll probably have him back on here before long, it's worth your time to do that. Final thing I wrote down for the challenge to those of you who are retiring or are retired is to get and we have these little idea cards. So if you're around Gimbal, we'll give you one. And write 10 ideas on it. Ten's a big number, and most people won't do that.
Keith:You probably won't do it. So maybe do three ideas. And those ideas are what are three to 10 things that you know that somebody else should know. That's a suggestion for you to take and put legs on today. Because if you have three to 10 things that you know that somebody else should know, then that gives you a bridge to somebody younger than you to help them see some ideas that maybe they haven't seen yet.
Keith:And I think your wisdom that you've built up, Paul, to age 60 shouldn't stop just because you stopped working. You should pass that on to somebody who really would benefit from it.
Doug:Yeah. And you know, one of one of my friends, he struggled with alcoholism. And I asked him once I said, Hey, have you ever figured out like, the pain point? What causes you
Keith:to
Doug:drink? And we were friends enough where I could ask him that and him not punch me. And he said to me, Yeah, I think I have. He says, I get these these thoughts that my best days are behind me, that they were the ones in my childhood, with my family. And Keith, one of the things that you you say quite often is your your best days are ahead of you.
Doug:And so I would encourage you, I'd challenge Paul and Bridget. And I'd challenge him with this thought is, hey, are your best days in front of you? Could your best days in front of you? Could that actually be true? And then what would that look like?
Keith:I am really grateful with that idea, Doug, from Mitch and his writings, because I discovered this book shortly after I had redefined retirement for myself. And we've said several times on that I'm kind of cynical about a lot of things in life. And just as a young man, I feel humbled that God gave me the wisdom to recognize the financial services industry was, I don't know if you'd use the word brainwashing, but they're propagating ideas that devalued work. And I think Gimbal has long believed, I think because of Jim Pingson's influence, he said it succinctly that work is honorable. And so a lot of people find their value in their work.
Keith:But what I would tell you is that quitting working, I. E. Retirement, is not a valid pursuit in life. Like if that's your goal in life, if that's your destination, you're leaving so much of who you are on the table. I think everybody at Gimbal views every one of you as invaluable, like unbelievably valuable.
Keith:And the value isn't what you do for work, it's who you are and your inner person. And the more you can kind of connect that going towards your ultimate retirement, I think is going to bring unbelievable fulfillment your way.
Doug:Yeah, congratulations to Paul. Congratulations, I think to Bridget. Paul's going to be around more.
Keith:Yeah, I don't know what to tell you, Bridget, when he's when he's walking around there. We we are just humbled that you guys would spend some time with us on, this this morning, and hopefully, it's brought some wisdom your way. And if any of you that are joining us are retired, we'd appreciate any other feedback you want to email us or shoot our way. Your weekend. Again, thanks for joining us today.