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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00]
[00:00:57] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and [00:01:00] you're listening to Sisters in Sobriety. Thanks for being here. I'm Sonia and I'm with my sister in sobriety. Actually, my sister in law, Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing?
[00:01:09] Kathleen: I'm really good. How are you?
[00:01:11] Sonia: I'm good. you're not here anymore, which sucks. And I miss you guys.
[00:01:16] Kathleen: I miss you.
[00:01:18] Sonia: I have new house guests, which are different.
[00:01:20] I have a teenager, here now, a 19 year old,
[00:01:24] Kathleen: I mean barely a teenager.
[00:01:26] Sonia: Yeah, barely. Yeah, I know, but it's very different than a nine year old. They have different eating habits.
[00:01:31] Kathleen: I'm sure they do.
[00:01:33] Sonia: So today we are talking about the cycle of alcohol use, so unhealthy patterns, cycles of drinking, and abstinence, and how to break free of these cycles and reclaim our lives.
[00:01:44] Kathleen: Our journey through life is often marked by patterns that we inherit or develop, some of which can actually hold us back from realizing our true potential. And breaking these cycles is not just about making a change, it's about setting a new course that leads [00:02:00] us to a brighter, more fulfilling future.
[00:02:02] Sonia: So in this episode we will explore what it means to confront your cycle by being mindful of your triggers and making lasting habit changes.
[00:02:12] Kathleen: So whether you're on a personal journey of transformation, supporting a loved one through their process, or simply curious about the power of change, this episode is definitely for you.
[00:02:24] Sonia: All right, Kathleen. So what is a cycle as it relates to a pattern of drinking? Yeah,
[00:02:32] Kathleen: drinking patterns, you're often going to hear the term cycle as well. And this is like a loop that many people find themselves in. So imagine it starts with someone drinking more than they intended or drinking more frequently than they intended. And after a while, they start noticing it's causing problems in their life.
[00:02:48] So maybe at work, in their relationships, or with their health, and they make a decision to cut back or stop drinking altogether. This might be successful for a time, and they're feeling good [00:03:00] about this change, but then boom! perhaps due to stress, social pressure, or something else, they find themselves reaching for a drink again.
[00:03:10] And before they know it, they're back in the same spot as before, maybe even feeling worse because they've had a setback. So that's what the cycle of drinking can look like. It's a really frustrating roller coaster that can be hard to step off of. And breaking the cycle is a big part of the journey towards sobriety.
[00:03:29] What is cycle breaking as it relates to changing your relationship with alcohol?
[00:03:36] Sonia: so cycle breaking is really just stopping this pattern of behavior that's so ingrained and for me It was in my day to day life. My cycle was very short. It was 24 hours And so when you look at that pattern, you actually might see that you're repeating a similar pattern in other areas of your life, but in alcohol in particular, it's a very well defined loop, right?
[00:03:59] It is [00:04:00] Q, which is the trigger, leads to a craving, which are the feelings or thoughts associated with the Q or what your brain associates with drinking. The response, what do you do in response to the craving, so the actual action you take and the reward. So, what do you experience and is it worth the consequences?
[00:04:21] And if you decide it is. Go back into the loop.
[00:04:26] Kathleen: And so what, what would cycle breaking mean for our listeners?
[00:04:30] Sonia: Yeah, what it means is going through the process of finding your triggers. Andyou have to reflect and acknowledge that you're in a cycle. And then, yeah, look at the cycle and figure out what is setting it off. And Is it emotional triggers? Is it guilt? and then what happens between the emotional trigger and the craving is usually fantasizing or obsessing about drinking.
[00:04:58] So you do have this [00:05:00] little window, right? Before you actually drink. So you have the craving. But you can make a decision at that point in the loop whether or not you're going to drink. And so I know that was true to me. There was like, for me, there were hours between I can't wait to get home and have a glass of wine and actually having the glass of wine.
[00:05:21] And then there is usually,between guilt and an emotional trigger, it's drinking again, right? So there's a passage of time. And for me, like I said, my cycle repeated every 24 hours, but it's important to also see for yourself how quickly is that cycle repeating itself?
[00:05:40] Kathleen: And so what does cycle breaking mean to you?
[00:05:44] Sonia: Yeah, I think I never really understood the concept of a trigger. I think I was always under the impression that I just had generalized anxiety. So I had social anxiety, emotional stress, work stress, and [00:06:00] I had put myself in this category of an anxious or nervous person and I never stopped to think, about my drinking as anything other than This is how I unwind and this is what I do when we socialize and it was really easy to accept that because you see it all around you, right?
[00:06:18] Not just with my friends who are also very high functioning and that's what they did to unwind, but you see it in the media. And so, yeah, that is how I had made it acceptable to me.
[00:06:31] What does it mean to you?
[00:06:34] Kathleen: I think the key with being in a cycle. Is that sometimes it's really hard to see the cycle and once you can see it, then you can break it. Sometimes it takes someone else seeing the cycle. So like a therapist, for example, or a coach seeing the cycle, or sometimes you can see it yourself, but it is, it is hard to see it.
[00:06:56] And I was the same. I, as same as you, in the sense that I [00:07:00] thought it was like generalized anxiety and work stress, and also I had ADHD, which was undiagnosed at the time. So I didn't see my cycle. And when I was finally able to see my cycle, I was really, it was really clear for me. And then I was ready to get in there with my toolbox. So you were in a cycle of drinking that repeated pretty frequently.
[00:07:26] Sonia: Yeah, for sure. I was a 24 hour cycle.
[00:07:29] Kathleen: Can you describe your cycle?
[00:07:38] Sonia: Lucky me. so my, yeah, my alcohol problem was a cycle of anxiety drinking, getting a little bit of relief. then worse anxiety when I sobered up and drinking again. So I had this daily habit of coming home and opening a bottle of wine. And I think a lot of people can relate to that.
[00:07:59] [00:08:00] And for me, it was like before I had even changed out of my scrubs or even had taken my dogs out, I would pour the glass of wine, I would sip and for a minute I would feel that relief and that Really allowed me to transition from work to home and let me move on to like home stuff like making dinner. So I had really associated that glass of wine as like the pivotal moment of the day between hardcore working and hardcore relaxing.
[00:08:30] And it was the only mechanism I had to manage stress and just getting a break from my work stress. But by the morning. Inevitably, every morning I had a hangover and worse anxiety, and then the cycle would start again, and I never realized until much later that I was making my anxiety worse, and so it was reinforcing.
[00:08:55] And another cycle I had, which [00:09:00] was more of like a weekend cycle was I would drink when I was getting ready to go out, like to dinner, I would have a couple of glasses of wine. So by the time I would go out, I was pretty buzzed. And I did that because I was really socially anxious person. And that cycle actually progressed over time where then I would go out, drink more, come home.
[00:09:23] Drink another glass of wine, usually black out. And then if it was on a weekend, which it normally was, I would find an excuse to start drinking earlier and earlier in the day. So I could feel better. And so the hair of the dog cycle, and I would. Think, okay, it's acceptable to drink at brunch.
[00:09:44] Let's hit brunch at 11 a. m. Or it's acceptable to go to a brewery or winery in the middle of the day. So let's do something like that. And so that was another cycle, uh, that social anxiety drinking [00:10:00] cycle, hair of the dog, super dangerous cycle that I was stuck in.
[00:10:05] Kathleen: So how do we become more aware of the cycle that we're in?
[00:10:11] Sonia: Yeah, with drinking, with my clients, I have them start by keeping track of how much they're drinking and when you're drinking and then look back and see if there's common elements to those situations. So, usually if you're concerned about your drinking, you should be able to figure out within a week or two.
[00:10:29] And sometimes what I've noticed is the trigger starts early. earlier than just like an hour or two before. It could start a couple of days before and there are other elements, right, that are coming before it. Like, is there some sort of particular work stress? Is there, for example, is there an emotional trigger?
[00:10:52] Like did my parents call on a Tuesday and by Thursday night, I was spiraling and drinking.
[00:10:58] And so. for [00:11:00] me, I drank daily, but looking back, there were nights when I drank more and blacked out. And those were usually for me preceded by days where I drank too much caffeine or hadn't eaten properly.
[00:11:13] And yes, I had to have a conversation with my parents.
[00:11:18] So what exercises do you think people can do to be more mindful of their alcohol consumption
[00:11:23] Kathleen: firstly, you've described what keeping a drinking diary basically. So like you can jot down notes in your phone even or in a notebook about how much you're drinking, the time, where you are also like the environment you're in. And so that can really open up your eyes to, to your drinking patterns.
[00:11:42] Yeah. The other thing that I definitely use in terms of techniques is checking in with your emotions. And yes, I am a therapist. I do check in with emotions. I encourage my clients to check in with emotions. So before you reach for a drink, Pause for a moment and ask yourself, [00:12:00] How am I feeling right now? Am I stressed?
[00:12:03] Am I upset or just in the mood to celebrate?understanding your feelings can really be a game changer and how you approach drinking. Then there's mindful drinking, and this is really about being present with your drink. So let's say you are still drinking and, maybe you want to cut down or you're moving towards abstinence.
[00:12:24] Savor each sip. sip. So meaning when you have the let's say it's a glass of wine, you're looking at the glass of wine, you're smelling the wine, you put the wine in your mouth, you taste it there for a moment, notice how your body is reacting. It's not just about drinking, and it's about really being mindful of the experience.
[00:12:46] And that can help you understand and also help you Limit potentially how much you're drinking and lastly there is the delay and distract technique and I talk about distraction a lot with my [00:13:00] clients from a grief perspective and also from having negative emotions because sometimes there is healthy distraction Distraction can actually be useful sometimes when used in a practical way An appropriate way.
[00:13:14] So, for example, if you feel like drinking, try waiting it out for about 15 minutes. In that time, do something else. Maybe listen to a song, go for a short walk or call a friend and often the urge to drink might just fade away. So these aren't strategies that will make huge changes overnight, but they're about becoming more aware of your habits and then gently steering them in a healthier direction.
[00:13:40] How do personal triggers vary from person to person and what are some common examples?
[00:13:46] Sonia: Yes, I think the details of everyone's triggers are different, but I find that they fall really broadly into a few categories. And those are boredom, [00:14:00] stress or anxiety, sadness, sometimes even any sort of pain, like physical pain, exhaustion or tiredness and social anxiety and nervousness. And I think looking back, I had a cycle for all of those triggers.
[00:14:19] I really thought I was never bored, but I think my cycle was probably I was too tired to do anything else that I thought was meaningful. when you're too tired to like pick up a book and
[00:14:32] Kathleen: Yes, I do, Sonia. I do know that.
[00:14:35] Sonia: that and so in those cases I would have drank so it's like a combination of like Exhausted boredom like can't do anything else.
[00:14:45] So that was really yeah, there are so many cycles that
[00:14:50] Kathleen: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And in your experience, what, what misconceptions do people often have about triggers in the cycle of addiction?\
[00:14:59] Sonia: [00:15:00] Yeah this comes up a lot for me in that people think that they are smarter than their triggers and
[00:15:07] that They are in control and that they are making conscious decisions, it may seem like, I'm going to open this bottle of wine. You're not like unconscious.
[00:15:16] You're not like passed out. And then you you wake up and there's a bottle of wine open, but I think that the cycle that is most difficult to identify is when.it ends in periods of abstinence, followed by a slow descent into regular
[00:15:34] drinking. So, I find this a lot in people that have, they will go a month, a week without drinking, and then they'll have one drink one day.
[00:15:45] Won't get out of control, but by a few weeks, Later, you're drinking a few drinks every night and you start that cycle again where you're like, okay, I'm not gonna drink. And so, I notice a lot of people seem to [00:16:00] have a time period for this that they don't even realize until we really start tracking it. And so, they'll say, yeah, you know what, around that 60 day mark, I start telling myself I can just have one.
[00:16:12] So I would call this like the just have one cycle and you really think that there is a moment in that cycle that you're giving yourself permission to have a
[00:16:23] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Sonia: And I think it's good to normalize thinking about drinking. It's normal. I've been sober for almost seven years and I still once in a while think I can probably just have a drink.
[00:16:40] I don't think the world would, implode if I had a drink, but in my case, I break that cycle by playing the tape forward. So I really try to dig deep and be realistic about a month from now. What would it look like if I had a drink [00:17:00] today? That requires you to be super honest with yourself and I think it's really important to remind yourself of your why in these moments.
[00:17:08] And so, yeah, it, it is hard sometimes even for me when I think, well, I can have a drink. I'm in control. I talk about this all the time. Like I'll know, if I want to drink the next day, I won't let myself, but that's when the cycle has already. Kicked in and and also what's the trigger for that?I can have just one is it and this happens to me Did you see a couple out to dinner sharing a bottle of wine?
[00:17:33] Did you feel a particular type of stress? And so yeah, and then there's another possibility with this pattern which I think is really dangerous is You have the period of abstinence And then you end up binging or drinking more than you ever did in that period before the abstinence. And I think that's a really dangerous cycle because I think that can progress, [00:18:00] uh, much more easily out of your control.
[00:18:03] Kathleen: Yeah. And I think that relates to, to addiction, obviously beyond a lot of what we're talking about today relates to addictions beyond drinking.
[00:18:09] Sonia: we've seen it, it could be sugar, it could be gambling, it could be sex, these cycles are just so ingrained, I think they really relate to so many things in our lives and usually we have problems or have issues with more than one thing, right?
[00:18:28] So alcohol may be, for me, my biggest problem. But I have other cycles.
[00:18:33] Kathleen: we were talking about this a little bit last week as we were planning this episode because as a couples therapist, all I see are cycles, right? I just see cycle after cycle after cycle and one of the most powerful things when I'm working with a couple is when they see their cycle. Oh my gosh. And so it's the same thing in a sense, that emotional cycle can also [00:19:00] become addictive.
[00:19:01] it can become habitual, just like an addiction to a substance can become a habitual, right?
[00:19:08] Sonia: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. And we were talking about this. So that's how the conversation came up as we were talking about what is the cycle you see and you see the couple's communication
[00:19:19] Kathleen: I do. I see conflict cycles, communication cycles, emotional cycles, just cycle after cycle after cycle. And one of my, one of my roles as a couple's therapist is to be a detective into that cycle and help shine the light on that cycle for couples. And that's definitely what we need to do too When we're faced with addiction is we need to shine the light, whether that's ourselves or through work with someone else, like a therapist on those cycles.
[00:19:47] Sonia: So speaking of, and as a recovery coach, I don't necessarily get into these things, but this is something for a therapist is how important are the. root causes of a [00:20:00] cycle, like family dynamics, past trauma, societal pressure. How important is it for us to figure out what the root cause of our
[00:20:08] Kathleen: I'm going to give my personal opinion first and my personal opinion is that they are important. I do think the root causes are really important, but, there's two schools of thought around this on how to approach it. Okay. So on one hand, some therapists like me, emphasize in digging into the root causes and they think about stuff like family dynamics, past trauma, societal pressures, cultural pressures, and, This school of therapists, they believe in understanding that these underlying, these underlying factors is key to changing your relationship with alcohol.
[00:20:41] It's like, if you grew up in a home where drinking was the go to way to handle stress, or if you've gone through tough experiences, you haven't fully dealt with. These things can influence why you might reach for a drink or why your that's your initial coping mechanism, but there's [00:21:00] another perspective that's also valuable and really interesting and some therapists urge that you don't always need to unpack your entire past to move forward and let me say this like I don't necessarily think you need to unpack your entire past, but, there Are some elements that are helpful, but this other school of thought says, okay, let's focus on what's happening right now, and that is more about looking at what your current thoughts and behaviors are and how to change these in the here and now.
[00:21:26] And it's like saying, okay, regardless of why you started drinking the way you do, let's find strategies to handle these habits today, and they believe in empowering you. This kind of school of thought believes in empowering you to make changes without necessarily having to delve into past experiences.
[00:21:43] So, that is very much like a coaching approach, although there are some therapists who are like solution focused therapists, for example, who may not delve into the past. I like to take a dual approach when I'm working with clients. So, yes, we delve in the past, but we don't stay there, for eons [00:22:00] and eons.
[00:22:00] So, both Both approaches have their place, right? some people find it really helpful to understand the why behind their behaviors, while others might get more out of focusing on changing their current habits and mindset. So it's really all about what works best for you on your journey to healthier habits.
[00:22:18] Sonia: Yeah, that's so interesting. So what role can therapy play then in determining those root causes?
[00:22:24] Kathleen: therapy can really create the safe zone where you can open up about everything and anything because in therapy, It's very, very strict in terms of confidentiality. So there, that is the cornerstone of my profession. but a therapist is like having a guide.
[00:22:42] Who helps you connect the dots between your past and what you're doing right now. And they've got all these tools and techniques to gently peel back the layers, revealing stuff that you may not have ever realized was affecting you. And we're talking about things like old family issues or tough experiences you've been [00:23:00] through.
[00:23:00] And sometimes it's these unresolved bits of our past that play a huge part in why we might reach for a drink or another substance. And therapy isn't just about talking. It's, it's about uncovering, understanding, and then learning new ways to cope. And it's, it gives you this amazing clarity about why you do what you do.
[00:23:22] And with that understanding, you can make real changes.
[00:23:25] so for example, you and I, we talk, we both see a therapist, and different ones, by the way.
[00:23:32] That would be not ethical in any world if we saw the same therapist,
[00:23:36] Sonia: Unless we were in couples
[00:23:38] Kathleen: which we probably could be.
[00:23:41] Sonia: According to my therapist,
[00:23:43] we could be
[00:23:44] Kathleen: I know, we're a little mesh to everybody, um, so, but we talk about when we, when we sort of debrief, not on every therapy session, for sure not, but we'll be like, Oh, I connected these dots in therapy [00:24:00] and this is why I'd been doing that. Or this really resonated with me. So it is like detective work.
[00:24:05] Sonia: Yeah, it's so true. And so you must have gone through a period of doing this in your own life, right? And in your own substance abuse cycle.
[00:24:15] Kathleen: My, my cycle changed very much. So it's. When I started out, my trigger was very much environmental.
[00:24:28] my friends were doing in terms of my drug use. So at first it was with a certain group of friends in certain places, usually bars or clubs. So we were talking just before we recorded this and I felt like I was a bit of the ringleader of my group of friends in the sense that I would always have the plan for the weekend and I would gather the stuff.
[00:24:49] You know, group of people together and we would go out and so that was my trigger. So the cycle went like this, go out, do drugs, feel like crap. Pretty much [00:25:00] sleep the whole next day. 'cause I was up all night and then promised myself no more drugs. So that was the cycle then. And then it switched. So. It evolved and the cycle became something to help manage my life.
[00:25:14] So stress, anxiety, chaos in my mind, because what I didn't understand is that I had ADHD. And so when I used cocaine, I was laser focused. I was actually able to calm my brain, which did the opposite for me, which it does for most people who don't have ADHD. And so then The drugs had a more frequent trigger, and the trigger was chaos in my mind equals drugs to quiet the mind, then shame, then hiding, then guilt, then promising I won't do it again, and then rinse and repeat.
[00:25:49] Sonia: So I know we talked about, Reflecting and acknowledging the problem is the [00:26:00] first step in breaking the cycle. So what are the next steps? Yeah,
[00:26:07] Kathleen: step and admitted there's an issue, a problem. So, right, what comes next? Well, it's about getting down to the details of your triggers and what urged you to drink. And you mentioned that more at the top of this episode, is that drinking journal. So, that is really important to understand what your triggers are.
[00:26:26] And it can be stress in certain people, or sadness, like you mentioned, boredom, all those things. So, knowing that is critical. Key to making changes. And then I really believe it's super important to have people around you who know what you're going through. And that could be therapy or support groups like ever bloom, or just friends and family that you really, really, really trust.
[00:26:45] And there can be your cheerleaders and sounding board. So next, coping strategies. So if drinking was your go to for dealing with life's ups and downs, you have to find new, healthier ways to cope. And that could be anything from [00:27:00] coloring, painting, yoga, making wreaths, as we talked about, or going for a run, exercising, and then setting goals is also a big one.
[00:27:09] So a goal might be to cut back gradually or aiming for total sobriety. it gives you something clear to work towards and then slips can happen, right? So it's about where can you grow from those slips? Yes, there might need to be lifestyle changes.
[00:27:23] In my case, I could not continue to go out to those clubs and bars. And actually, I really need to be able to grow from those. Step back from that group of friends because it was very much triggering, and that'swhat we did. And so there might need to be lifestyle changes. And then there's also, working on some of maybe your past emotional or psychological issues.
[00:27:46] So everyone's path is different and it's really about what, find what, finding out what works best for you. What about you? What helped you the most in breaking the cycle? Mm-Hmm.
[00:27:57] Sonia: so me, for me, I love the [00:28:00] idea of atomic habits, and that's really the core of how I make changes. And that's basically making small changes and not making too many changes at once. And when I do try to make too many changes at once, especially in my lifestyle, I have a much lower chance of succeeding.
[00:28:20] Kathleen: have a course, Sonia, on atomic habits and
[00:28:22] drinking?
[00:28:23] Sonia: I do. Yeah, the atomic habits to quit drinking. And sowhat we talk about is trying to break or develop too many habits at once is really tough. And I always say that, you can't. Quit drinking, become a vegan, start training for a marathon,all at the same time. And so you can do little things, right, towards each thing.
[00:28:48] But yeah, so that I feel like for me, and I still have to stop myself because I do, I get really excited about things. I'm like, well, then I could do this and then I could do this. And then it's like, okay, let's just [00:29:00] start with something small. And that's my
[00:29:03] Kathleen: I like to say, and I say this to clients, what is a small promise you can keep to yourself every day
[00:29:10] and do that for a month? Let's see, but just start with a small promise because sometimes it can seem overwhelming, right? It can seem overwhelming. Like I just, I felt that in my answer to the last question is there's so much there, but really what is a small promise that you can keep to yourself every day for a month?
[00:29:28] Because once you do that, it's going to build confidence too.
[00:29:31] Sonia: that's so true. Yeah, that's
[00:29:33] so
[00:29:33] Kathleen: Can you talk about a moment when you successfully broke a cycle related to your alcohol use and what sort of support systems or strategies did you find most helpful in that?
[00:29:45] Sonia: So for sure, I was really lucky because I, after I got sober, my life was pretty emotionally stable. And one of my major triggers was severe emotional stress. And my [00:30:00] cycle was emotional stress, freaking out, drinking, and while I was drinking, creating a very convenient narrative. Convincing myself everything was fine, passing out, waking up, realizing I did not have a plan and I was freaking out again.
[00:30:18] So you can't eliminate emotional stress and especially with emotional stress, you can't predict it, right? It's not always in your control. So now my, my first step when I encounter a severe emotional trigger is literally to just not freak out. the initial thing is, I will say to myself, don't freak out.
[00:30:44] And so it's not just about the drinking part of the cycle. For me, it's the step before it, right? So emotional trigger, don't freak out. And then I won't drink. And so it's easier said [00:31:00] than done. But just that moment of pause for me has been super helpful in dealing with, if I do have a trigger, if I do have a craving to drink as a result of an emotional issue, it's been super helpful to take that
[00:31:15] Kathleen: hmm.
[00:31:17] Sonia: In what ways do you think people can prepare themselves to handle unexpected triggers like a divorce that may send them into a cycle, especially during early recovery?
[00:31:29] Kathleen: Well, I know you love a plan and I would say having a game plan for sure. I mean, you can think of it like this is like a break in case of emergency kits and what you, what will you do if you suddenly feel the urge to drink? So this can be calling a friend, going for a walk, practicing some deep breathing.
[00:31:49] It's like about having a go to action that is. Already ready to go once you have that trigger. And then the next thing is to really build [00:32:00] up self awareness. So the more tuned in you are with your feelings and reactions, the better you can catch those triggers early. It's like being your own emotional detective.
[00:32:09] So don't underestimate the power of a support network surround yourself with people who understand what you're going through andwho you can reach out to when things get tough. Taking care of yourself is key. and that's self care, which we've talked about in previous episodes.
[00:32:26] So that is important too, to be able to handle unexpected triggers. That means getting enough sleep, eating right, maybe throwing some exercise into the mix. For you, Sonia, like I know because I was with you a lot of that time when you were going through your divorce, you had to double down on your self care.
[00:32:43] You still do. You do double down on that. You're very, very Um, and I'm going to be really strict about it in a way that I really admire like, even when we were staying with you last week, you were flexible and I mean, it does help that we share kind of the same schedule, but, your self care was really important.
[00:32:58] You still worked [00:33:00] out, you still went to bed, you still ate well that was all in place. So Ijust having guests didn't necessarily throw that off. And then the last thing I'll say on this, and there's much more to cover, but. is cut yourself some slack. Like recovery is so tough and it's okay not to handle every trigger perfectly.
[00:33:20] What matters is learning from each experience and moving forward. And it is all part of the journey. Can you discuss the importance of routine and structure in your recovery journey?
[00:33:32] Sonia: Yeah. So thanks for describing my routine and structure. And so, yeah, it's so true. And again, I have guests. This week, um, that are sleeping still, and I'm up
[00:33:44] and doing this podcast. So yeah, I don't let, people interfere too much with my routine. I still have some like basic things that I make sure I do.
[00:33:52] And so I am really into that idea. Of atomic habits so small changes over time [00:34:00] leading to big results and a huge part of that is structure and routine. And so yeah, I do have a course on our sub stack about the atomic habits to quit drinking. And the most interesting concept that when I was researching it, I found is the concept of habit stacking.
[00:34:17] So our association for multiple habits. So coming home, pouring a glass of wine, putting down your bag, making dinner. All of those are stacked. You're associating them with each other. So if we want to replace the habit of pouring a glass of wine with something, then wehave to change what we're doing before also.
[00:34:41] So we want to change it with a wok. And so a lot of people do that. They change the glass of wine with a wok. So instead They come home, they change into their workout stuff, they put their sneakers on, they go for a walk. And I think also a planned snack, which I think for drinking, and [00:35:00] we, we spoke to a nutritionist last week, I think that is really helpful because I think some of us don't realize it, but our habit is to use alcohol to satiate our
[00:35:11] hunger. when we get home. And so, yeah, over time, then that one habit, right, of coming down and putting your bag down, you will start to associate with another habit, which is not pouring a glass of wine. And then, again, with social situations, there are other habits you can develop. And so, my habit before I go out is usually that I get ready early and then I sit down, hang out with my dogs, and have a mocktail.
[00:35:42] And so it replaced that hour before going out where I used to sit around and
[00:35:48] Kathleen: I also noticed you love a good Friday night mocktail.
[00:35:53] Sonia: I do.
[00:35:54] Kathleen: It's part of your Friday night ritual. You're like, woohoo, Friday, mocktails, everybody.
[00:35:59] Sonia: [00:36:00] So I was telling my other niece and sister in law here and I was like, just wait till five o'clock on Friday. Because my nine year old niece, your daughter, and I, you were working on your notes and it was five o'clock and I was just like screaming. I was like, it's five o'clock on Friday!
[00:36:15] And I have these really cute, Coupe glasses? and I poured her a mocktail and it was so cute because she was holding it with both hands and she was just like a chalice and I was like, do you, do you want a different glass? And she was like, no.
[00:36:29] And I was like, that's my girl, because she understands the importance of the
[00:36:34] Kathleen: She was like holding it. You're right. Like it was like a birdbath or something for her.
[00:36:39] Sonia: was a bird, but it was so
[00:36:41] cute and she knew it was Friday night, I'll tell you that.
[00:36:45] So what role does forgiveness of yourself or of others play in your recovery and in breaking the cycle?
[00:36:54] so forgiveness is really, is really important of self because I think [00:37:00] with when you don't forgive, there comes a lot of shame and guilt and, and you hold onto that.
[00:37:06] Kathleen: but forgiveness, I do believe as an inside job. You don't necessarily need someone else's forgiveness in order to move forward, but you do need yourself forgiveness. Sure, would it be nice if you've caused someone pain and, they've said they forgive you? Sure. But if they don't, do you Do you just keep on drinking?
[00:37:27] Do you just keep living the life you're living? Or do you make a different choice? So I do think forgiveness, gosh, forgiveness could be its own episode on its own because there are many different, 12 step traditions, in a sense, that believe in making amends and that's You might not get forgiveness from that, but can you cleanse your inner self?
[00:37:49] Can there be forgiveness there? So little bit of a convoluted answer for a very, very big topic.
[00:37:57] Sonia: Yeah, we just did a mini [00:38:00] episode on forgiveness and amends and repairing relationships. What role can a support system play and how can we develop a support system that helps us with cycle breaking?
[00:38:11] Kathleen: A support system is like having a team of cheerleaders, advisors, and. coaches in your corner, especially when you're working on breaking those really tough cycles. So a good support system provides, can provide emotional backup. And so it's like people who, having people who can lift you up when you're down and cheer you on when you're making progress and just listen to you when you need to vent.
[00:38:36] And they're the ones who are going to get you through through, and help you and offer encouragement and empathy, but it's not just about emotional boosts. It can also be practical. So maybe it's a friend who will go for a run with you instead of a night of drinking or family members who respect your choice to avoid alcohol at gatherings.
[00:38:56] so these are the people who are going to help you stick with your new [00:39:00] habits. And To build this kind of support system, it's really, you've got to really look at who you're surrounding yourself with and who your team is, in a sense. So, it needs to be friends and family that you trust, or who understand your journey, and They don't evoke lots of anxiety, stress.
[00:39:22] they're not your triggers, right? Your support system should not be your triggers.
[00:39:26] So, it can also be about finding a support group like Everbloom, for example, which is a beautiful community of people who can really help you change your relationship with alcohol. And so, then there's also professional support. So that could be therapists or counselors that specialize in addiction or sobriety, and they can be like expert guides on your journey, helping you navigate through the tough parts.
[00:39:49] So, You got to remember support system is very unique to you and it's about finding the right mix of people and resources that make you feel supported. They [00:40:00] are not your triggers. They make you feel understood and motivated. And it's like building a team to have people help you stay on track with your goals. So what resonated with you the most about today's episode?
[00:40:13] Sonia: There was something you said at the beginning about delay and distract and it's the way you said it that was so clear because I always tell people if you have a craving, wait 15 minutes, see how you feel. And I think. actually more succinctly is delay and distract.
[00:40:29] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:40:30] Sonia: I think that's so important.
[00:40:31] And I think it's something that I started doing without really knowing it, but I think it's such good advice. So what resonated with you?
[00:40:44] Kathleen: resonated with me is these are small steps on the journey, right? they can seem really big and it can seem like you need to take all these steps at once and just make all these huge changes. But you really, reiterated [00:41:00] Atomic Habits by James Clear about, what are these small steps you can take?
[00:41:05] What are the habits that you can stack? Andthat really resonated with me. I'm an all or nothing person. And so sometimes, at least for me personally, I need to step back a little bit and think what are the small steps I can take today? Thank you for listening to Sisters in Sobriety, and we will see you next week. [00:42:00]