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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;15;27 - 00;00;19;27
Aaron
So Pri you're in San Francisco. How many, peptides are you on? What's your.
00;00;19;27 - 00;00;36;12
Pri
Cocktail? I'm in the bay. What is my cocktail right now? I don't have one. I'm. I'm deep dive into the world of of I'm not really deep diving, but I have been asking around and it's definitely something a lot of people are experimenting with.
00;00;36;12 - 00;00;41;11
Aaron
I thought you just landed SFO and they just, like, hand you, like a bag of you.
00;00;41;14 - 00;00;41;21
Pri
You can.
00;00;41;21 - 00;00;42;23
Aaron
Inject. Yeah.
00;00;42;27 - 00;00;58;18
Chris
You don't have a guy, you know, don't black market Chinese peptides yet. You don't know what our free we needed to be like hearing that now with your, your matcha in the morning, you're taking beta gamma tide nuclear four and.
00;00;58;18 - 00;01;03;03
Aaron
That you grew four inches. You know, you got ripped and.
00;01;03;05 - 00;01;05;17
Chris
You only need three hours of sleep.
00;01;05;20 - 00;01;12;24
Pri
Yeah, I'm like forgetting. I know that is like the collagen peptide, apparently. Like, you can sleep for four hours and it feels like eight, purportedly.
00;01;12;26 - 00;01;22;19
Chris
Why would you want to timeout real quick? Why would you want to do that? Like I need you to do it. Good, I will do I need a good seven hours off for myself every day.
00;01;22;26 - 00;01;24;27
Aaron
Sleeps for when you're dead, Chris.
00;01;25;00 - 00;01;29;10
Pri
Yeah. I mean, if I didn't have to sleep, I would. I would be just thrilled.
00;01;29;11 - 00;01;31;02
Aaron
That'd be fine. Yeah. Great.
00;01;31;05 - 00;01;44;27
Chris
No, I need a break from myself. Like, even if, like, I just don't physically need one mentally. I just need to, like, take time off for myself like this too much. I have too much going on in my inner monologue. Like, hit the pause button.
00;01;45;04 - 00;01;46;25
Aaron
There's a peptide for that. Chris.
00;01;46;28 - 00;01;48;11
Pri
Yeah.
00;01;48;14 - 00;01;55;10
Chris
There are plenty of other things for that. Aaron. And they're not peptides, but yeah, I digress.
00;01;55;12 - 00;02;09;24
Pri
There's actually like a peptide apparently that is pretty big in the bay. That is like helping people that are like either on the spectrum or, you know, have mild autism to be more like sociable and like more stuff.
00;02;09;27 - 00;02;11;14
Aaron
You know, and or whatever.
00;02;11;16 - 00;02;17;12
Pri
I don't know if it's that one. I like keep forgetting the names because they're like so long. But that one I think has, you know.
00;02;17;14 - 00;02;20;10
Aaron
Gotten ripped through San Francisco.
00;02;20;12 - 00;02;30;02
Pri
Yeah. It's this everyone's just go. I mean, I can't tell if it's because it's like. Because of what it's for, why it's like so kind of like why it's a topic of conversation, but it is like pretty funny. I mean, so do you.
00;02;30;02 - 00;02;35;26
Aaron
Think if if that hit scale pretty, do you think that we'll get, you know, more human feeling suffer?
00;02;35;28 - 00;02;44;04
Pri
Oh, that's a good question. I haven't really thought about like what the third order effect of, of empathy peptides would be. Yeah.
00;02;44;04 - 00;02;55;22
Chris
Maybe again, there are plenty of other things for that. Like everything that was great in the UK from like 1985 onwards came out of like a four letter acronym called MDMA.
00;02;55;24 - 00;03;01;21
Aaron
Yeah, that's true, that's fair. I was I thought you were going to say like a mother's love, Chris or something. Something to that effect.
00;03;01;23 - 00;03;13;12
Chris
No, no techno optimism. The core of techno optimism is MDMA and a drum machine that was like the basis of all of it. Right there. And the Brits sorted this out.
00;03;13;17 - 00;03;14;26
Aaron
There was Gen X. Yeah.
00;03;14;27 - 00;03;16;00
Pri
Take that every day.
00;03;16;07 - 00;03;18;05
Chris
No, you certainly cannot.
00;03;18;08 - 00;03;20;06
Pri
Once you hit a hole in your brain.
00;03;20;08 - 00;03;26;06
Chris
Nor nor can you probably build software on it like me. The last thing I'd want to do.
00;03;26;11 - 00;03;29;22
Aaron
You just be like hugging your computer, the entire time.
00;03;29;25 - 00;03;39;20
Chris
Oh my God. Cursor! I love you. Let's put on some Oakenfold, Sasha and Digweed.
00;03;39;22 - 00;03;45;29
Aaron
Chris, it sounds like you needed to survive the singularity, right? They're going to come at you with a with a fury with all that. Oh my.
00;03;45;29 - 00;03;51;25
Chris
God. If progressive house is what gets you through the singularity, that would be hilarious.
00;03;51;27 - 00;03;52;29
Pri
I could see that.
00;03;53;02 - 00;03;56;07
Aaron
What's the download? An SF prime? What are you seeing there.
00;03;56;07 - 00;04;15;24
Pri
Yeah okay. So obviously, like, there's just especially at the edge, like so much experimentation I have gone I like, went to a breakfast, I've been getting coffee trying to get a read. I mean we're definitely in boom times. There's like no question about that. And so, you know the hacker houses are in full swing. A lot of people are like, I, you know, we had an event yesterday.
00;04;15;24 - 00;04;32;26
Pri
There was like five founders, like just around. And so, you know, I met two kids who are dropping out of college and, you know, moving here. They were both extremely bright. I met some kids who went to like, Minerva University, which I just think is like one of the most interesting colleges. And, you know, very.
00;04;33;01 - 00;04;36;09
Aaron
What is that? I know you've told me about for the audience.
00;04;36;12 - 00;04;58;02
Pri
Yeah. I mean, it's it's this interesting. It's a very like small private college. Like, I think they do give a lot of scholarship away, too, but they basically take like it's an international school, completely international. So like the two guys I met were from Nigeria, highly, highly selective. Like I think like more selective than, you know, many Ivy League schools because it's so small.
00;04;58;05 - 00;05;15;14
Pri
But you live in different countries as part of it. So it's like your, you know, you and your whole cohort will end up living in like a different country for a year. And, and, you know, you might do that for two of the four years, many of them are working. They're starting companies together. It's like just a kind of different approach.
00;05;15;14 - 00;05;39;08
Pri
It's definitely like a very West Coast approach to higher education. But I think it's fascinating. And because, you know, it's such a unique group of people and like, they're just like these superstars from all over the world, I think it's like really interesting. So anyways, yeah, it's worth reading about Minerva, but yeah, I meant two kids. So a lot of people around I went to Frontier Tower yesterday.
00;05;39;08 - 00;05;44;00
Pri
That's where our event was. And honestly, like, I like I'm still thinking about it. It was really.
00;05;44;02 - 00;05;45;12
Aaron
Why what did you see there?
00;05;45;12 - 00;06;07;21
Pri
Interesting. So first of all, it felt like this dormitory. It felt like a dormitory co-working space. They had a gym. They had like five different events going on at different floors. And it it definitely felt like bleeding edge tech in that every floor was dedicated to something like a specific new emerging area of tech. So I got a tour.
00;06;07;21 - 00;06;24;10
Pri
I went to the wet lab that was like an entire floor of people just tinkering, almost like a school lab, like, which I mean, obviously it looked a little bit more, more real than that, but I didn't I didn't like I didn't ask any questions. But this is like, you know, at night at 9 p.m., people are like kind of just doing science experiments.
00;06;24;13 - 00;06;46;28
Pri
I went to the 3D printing lab. Someone was making circuit boards there. It was one of the 3D printers was like the largest 3D printer I've ever seen. There's probably like, like 12 different 3D printers. Like that kind of stuff is just super compelling to be around. I stopped in to. So I got there a little early. I stopped into like a there, like they kind of have this like psychedelic floor.
00;06;46;28 - 00;06;55;17
Pri
And I kind of over the conversation there, they were actually talking about like MDMA therapy and like some of the, regulatory environment changes. But just like Chris.
00;06;55;17 - 00;06;56;11
Aaron
The kids are all right.
00;06;56;11 - 00;07;20;24
Pri
Yeah, the kids are right. All right. So, like, popped into that. It's just I'm trying to think so they had, like, a decentralization. And what's interesting is every floor has like a floor leader that kind of manages it. What kind of runs you of like a kind of frenzy of like an RA in a dorm? And it just feels like really active and energized, like there was a lot of people, like, they're just working on their computers or mingling.
00;07;20;27 - 00;07;40;27
Pri
There was a robotics floor. So I don't know if you guys like, followed is in the times like Frontier Towers mentioned the times as related to this, but like the UFC, but for robots they call it UFB. So I went to the robotics for I saw like all these you have be robots like with the punching bags which is just like fun and different to see.
00;07;40;29 - 00;07;47;15
Pri
And I you know, I was asking Lawrence's if I'm like, hey, like how did you guys like get funding? Because they bought the whole building.
00;07;47;18 - 00;07;50;03
Chris
Yeah. How big is this tower? Like is it dude?
00;07;50;03 - 00;07;55;07
Pri
It's like 17 floors. It's I mean, it's not like, okay, it's not a skyscraper, but it's like 17.
00;07;55;08 - 00;08;01;18
Chris
No, 17 is very respectable, like, I, it's but I feel like you can call 17 floors a tower. Sure.
00;08;01;25 - 00;08;17;28
Pri
Yeah. No, it's a tower for sure. And like, I was on the longevity floor. They have a human flourishing floor. I went to the arts and music floor, and there was just like easels of people, like painting and, you know, there was like this, like here. Yeah, that was more of, like a cuddle puddle, which felt very like Burning Man coated.
00;08;17;29 - 00;08;38;17
Pri
Honestly, I think there's like a decent overlap with that community there. Yeah, I mean, the longevity stuff is obviously with the pep they were in the times for the Chinese peptide rave. I think that that's obviously huge. They have like the basement for these like raves and stuff. Like I think they have like a psychedelic rave on Saturday, he was mentioning they have like a biotech and neurotic floor.
00;08;38;24 - 00;08;54;17
Pri
Oh, the other thing I thought was crazy is they have a whole room where people are putting chips in their body, so they have like someone literally putting chips. Yeah. Like so they have about 500 members of Frontier Tower and like, you pay $150 to be able to be a part of it.
00;08;54;18 - 00;08;56;26
Aaron
It's a Soho house for geeks.
00;08;56;29 - 00;09;18;28
Pri
Yeah. I mean, it was people are fascinating to me, but I thought it was amazing that, like he said, some people were implanting chips, like in their hand to like, get access to Frontier Tower, for example, or like, so they put chips in there just like, so they don't have to hold a card, like open the door. They just like pad a access chip in them and like, they were just like doing, like literally doing the surgeries at Frontier Tower.
00;09;19;00 - 00;09;32;09
Pri
I was like, whoa. What? They, like, have a doctor on hand that like, people are starting to do that. So you have like a little bit of like the BCI stuff. I could keep going, but like, yeah, it was kind of keep going.
00;09;32;11 - 00;09;37;27
Aaron
Why would what were they? What were they doing? Like, what were they implanting? What were they.
00;09;37;27 - 00;09;53;02
Pri
Trying? I didn't actually see it, but I saw the room because this is like I was there at like 830, but I saw the room and they were like, explaining it. And so they were telling me that a lot of people are just I don't know what the chips look like. But, you know, obviously you need keycard access to get places or the building.
00;09;53;02 - 00;09;58;28
Pri
So a lot of people are like doing that, you know, for keycard access or other things. I didn't like dig into the details, but these.
00;09;58;28 - 00;10;02;02
Chris
Are like RFID tags that we stick in. Yeah.
00;10;02;04 - 00;10;04;20
Pri
I think so. Like, I don't know exactly. I mean, he said like the.
00;10;04;20 - 00;10;06;01
Chris
Little rice grain.
00;10;06;04 - 00;10;08;29
Pri
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean.
00;10;09;01 - 00;10;33;17
Chris
What's interesting to me about this is, how like, kind of like a really, really based college it feels. And as you were talking about all these different floors, like, in my head, I was thinking, because we're doing college tours right now, and by far and away like the favorite, and like most, most base college we actually visited was RIT Rochester Institute of Technology.
00;10;33;17 - 00;10;53;04
Chris
And it literally was like every time me every time you turned a corner, there was like a different group working in a different lab with like a, you know, a different problem. And like, it just it felt so contemporary versus like all these other schools like we visited where it was just like, oh my God, one entrance that I send my kid here.
00;10;53;06 - 00;11;05;07
Chris
But then like, yeah, to see this happening, you know, in a, a nonacademic or like, you know, just sort of like, I don't even know what to say here, but this this is insane. Like, keep going. Please.
00;11;05;10 - 00;11;20;11
Pri
Yeah. No, it's it's actually it did feel very contemporary. Like, I think that's like a good way to like, I was like thinking, wow, this is like, really, really the edge. And like, this is the kind of stuff that breaks out and becomes more mainstream. Like, these are concepts we already know, but people are actually taking it. They're they're tinkering.
00;11;20;18 - 00;11;47;02
Pri
It kind of when I was leaving, I was like reflecting on it. And you know how we always joke like the tech oligarchs and others like they're not like the Andrew Carnegie's or the Rockefellers that are like giving back through their libraries and, and other more, you know, cerebral, intellectual, like imprints. And I was talking to Lawrence, who's kind of, you know, really he's like the founder of this, and he's the one who like trying to talk to Vitalik and a bunch of other people to help fund Frontier Tower.
00;11;47;02 - 00;11;59;25
Pri
And they bought the building everything. And I'm like, you know, in a way, I feel like our modern oligarchs are actually they still are funding, you know, this sort of experimentation and tinkering. It's just like in a totally novel way that it's like less.
00;11;59;27 - 00;12;05;00
Aaron
Was that the tech oligarchs, or is it more the crypto oligarchs? Because I feel like.
00;12;05;03 - 00;12;05;11
Pri
Yeah.
00;12;05;12 - 00;12;36;00
Aaron
I feel like there's there's a difference. Right. You know, I feel like the tech oligarchs, I don't know if they, they yet really have a vision of the world that they want to build based on all the things that they've introduced and, and hopefully improved, on balance, most of our lives. Right. But it feels like the, the crypto capital is like a little bit more self-aware there and like my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, that tower was funded in part with, with folks that it, you know, quote unquote made it and
00;12;36;02 - 00;12;36;24
Chris
But that's true.
00;12;36;26 - 00;12;38;05
Aaron
In crypto, right?
00;12;38;07 - 00;12;58;06
Pri
Yeah. It I would say it's probably more it definitely more crypto. But you can see that they're pushing in all these different directions, which, you know, and the whole building is running like a DAO decentralized way. Like I said, like you have these four managers and like they kind of, you know, it's like messy. It's not like it's like it wouldn't be like, oh, this is like a oh, we're clean, we work.
00;12;58;06 - 00;13;10;01
Pri
It's like definitely pretty messy. There's like chairs everywhere and beanbags and like it's kind of a bit of a disaster. Like, it's not well kept. It's actually finely kept, but it's not like, you know, going into, you know.
00;13;10;01 - 00;13;10;15
Aaron
Stanford.
00;13;10;19 - 00;13;31;01
Pri
We work or like Stanford or. Yeah, something like that. But even like the signage, I was like, so like, there was like, you know, I took some pictures of just like some of the experiments, like they're doing, like, menstrual blood, some still research. And, you know, people are signing up to do these, like, I like longevity like that.
00;13;31;01 - 00;13;46;10
Pri
They're like, willing to give their genetic data to these companies to yeah, try to get reads of there. There was like one sign for a company that's like, hey, like if you want, you know, to improve your get a sense of like your DNA through our AI company, you can be a part of our like beta testing group.
00;13;46;10 - 00;14;04;09
Pri
And so it's like there's like a this camaraderie. So that part felt university like where it's like, hey, you know, tear off this piece of paper if you want to participate type of thing except the doing in the context. So it's not surprising to me that I ran into so many of these, like, Minerva experimental grads and then, you know, potential college dropouts.
00;14;04;09 - 00;14;12;22
Pri
And so there's like, because this is like a collegial environment, but just, again, not college. And on the bleeding edge, it is really interesting.
00;14;12;27 - 00;14;38;20
Chris
Yeah, yeah. What's that saying? If you're young and you're not a liberal, you have no heart. And if you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain and just kind of like go into like Aaron's oligarch point, right? Like our tech oligarchs really are kind of embracing like a conservative, reactionary lifestyle in which they want to wall themselves off and live like lords.
00;14;38;22 - 00;14;55;16
Chris
Whereas, yes, maybe if this is like a crypto oligarch funded project, right? They're still young and they're still out and engaged and maybe that's your dividing line, is it? It might be generational in terms of what that vision for the world is, or that engagement with the world. You know what I mean?
00;14;55;23 - 00;15;14;22
Pri
Yeah. I mean, let me be clear. This is like a preview into network state, like, this is, you know, the special economic zone theory, like, all of this is very much aligned with that vision. You know, but to, to be clear, like, it feels like a proto network. I mean, I think if they see themselves as like frontier, Atari's like a network state.
00;15;14;28 - 00;15;34;23
Chris
Yeah. No, that's crazy, because like, when you were describing Minerva, they're like my head flash back to to like, get really old school semester at sea, right? Because like, I didn't read biology. I was down in Woods Hole and they're based out of there. And that was like, hey, let's all get on a ship and we'll cruise around the Caribbean first semester, and that will be your college course, right?
00;15;34;25 - 00;15;48;01
Chris
But it was like accredited and structured and all of that where, you know, I guess Minerva is as well. But just taking these ideas and these concepts and yeah, like updating them, maybe making them a little looser. Yeah.
00;15;48;02 - 00;16;10;20
Aaron
It feels right. Yeah. I mean like to me it's like kind of like I have this working or this emerging thesis like that. The American tinkerer is going to just come back hard. You know, we have more time. You can, you know, get expertise like, you know, the click of a button pretty much. And it just feels like that's going to lead to kind of a rebirth of the American tinkerer.
00;16;10;23 - 00;16;25;28
Aaron
You know, there's like archetype that I think has floated in and out of different periods of American history and, it feels like Frontier Tower is like, I like, like in that thematic, prey. Right. Like it's empowering people to, like, mess around, right?
00;16;26;04 - 00;16;46;11
Pri
Yeah. I mean, I have to tinker. Yeah, I thought it was. Honestly, I know you guys are coming to us up next week, but if we wanted to coordinate a tour with Lawrence, I think it's worth visiting. For sure. Like, I was like, damn, this is very interesting. Like, I might try to, like, walk out of there or something, next week just because there's, like, you know, a bunch of events going on.
00;16;46;11 - 00;16;50;22
Pri
It's just such an interesting group of people. It's like, very cool.
00;16;50;25 - 00;17;09;29
Chris
I was kind of trying not to head to San Francisco and just skirt my way around it, but my trip, I'm hitting like all the off places I'm working out of Long Beach. I'm not. I'm not spending any time in LA. I'm going to Palo Alto for node. But if you want to throw us in a Waymo up to Frontier Tower, I'm down for that.
00;17;10;00 - 00;17;17;15
Chris
I'll actually go into the city and violate whatever stupid, SimCity thing I got going on here.
00;17;17;17 - 00;17;37;03
Pri
Yeah, I mean, it's worth checking out, so maybe we'll coordinate around it, but yeah, it should be. It is cool. By the way, just a side note on SF I like. So it's probably like in the week I've been here. Probably been to like 8 to 10 different neighborhoods, probably all of them in ones like it's very clean and nice and like, I don't know, I everyone's like obsessed with the new mayor.
00;17;37;04 - 00;18;01;20
Pri
Like I've talked to probably 3 or 4 people about how much they love the new mayor, but it feels like a whole like the post-Covid Twitter, Audie, like negativity around San Francisco feels like it's turned a major corner, at least just from my like, limited week here. Like, I didn't feel like it was as dramatic as it was like years ago.
00;18;01;22 - 00;18;19;02
Aaron
I mean, that's encouraging, right? That means that there's like a pathway to get rid of, urban rot, which is awesome, right? Like, it feels like maybe that maybe they're the they're leading the charge and kind of reversing that, which I think is important for everybody. I think, you know, healthy cities are important.
00;18;19;05 - 00;18;29;08
Pri
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That's I'll, I'll keep you guys posted though. But yeah, it's cool that I'm, I'm kind of excited to do I mean I don't know if you want to talk about node at all, but I'm excited about next week I node I think it'll be great.
00;18;29;08 - 00;18;30;12
Aaron
Yeah, I think we touched on it.
00;18;30;12 - 00;18;32;03
Pri
So many people are going.
00;18;32;06 - 00;18;49;08
Aaron
A lot of people, it looks like a lot of, you know, fairly prominent people. Right. Are going to be there, which is great. I feel like this is in a weird way, like kind of like that notable moment where, you know, SF is kind of flexing its muscles, becoming kind of more important and more of an actor on the US stage.
00;18;49;08 - 00;19;13;29
Aaron
And then ultimately, I think the global stage, and it feels like they want to express themselves culturally through, or at least in part via digital art, which I think makes sense. Being right, a lot of, digital technology and advanced technology and B, I think it, it may be just an early indicator of where, you know, different parts of the, the art and media landscape are going.
00;19;14;01 - 00;19;19;21
Aaron
And it's good to see like kind of that energy from at least, some of the tech oligarchs that are there.
00;19;19;23 - 00;19;21;22
Pri
Yeah, completely. Aaron, you were.
00;19;21;22 - 00;19;47;25
Chris
Saying like it was it's the age of the tinkerer and maybe the last great. Like. Well, there's been like, a lot of great moments in tinkering, but in my head I go back to, you know, when Britain, like, just kind of pioneered the shit out of a lot of early science. And then you look these people up and they're like, oh, yeah, so and so who, you know, invented the lore of gas was a parson, you know, I mean, this.
00;19;47;27 - 00;20;12;05
Aaron
Was like an aristocrat, right? Like a lot of them were wealthy people. They, you know, either came from, like, old school families in the UK, had a lot of land and and a lot of income from that land, or they were, you know, neo industrialists right at the time. So I think, I think when people gain more free time and it looks like at a minimum, like I is going to give you a little bit more free time.
00;20;12;05 - 00;20;32;11
Aaron
The culture set right, like it is largely in the US, then I think it it opens up these periods of tinkering. And I think the ability to like gain quick expertise on something like, let's say you wanted to mess around with hardware, Chris, like, I'm sure you could, you could do that much, much faster than you would have been able to three years ago.
00;20;32;11 - 00;20;53;27
Aaron
Definitely ten years ago. Right. I just think people are going to just see a lot of that type of experimentation come back. I think the one downside to moving away from hardware to software is that it was harder to tinker, right? Like, people used to tinker with their cars or they tinkered with early computers. It was much harder to kind of do that with like, scaled web technology.
00;20;54;00 - 00;20;55;09
Aaron
It feels like, at least to me.
00;20;55;11 - 00;21;32;11
Chris
Yeah, I know the tinkering thing. The last time I tried to tinker with hardware was about ten, ten years ago. And in order to do so, I had to one, hire a Android app dev shop out of Novi Sad, Serbia, who was very like, very skilled and specialized in getting under the hood of Android. And two, I had to, like, start cozying up to like, all the ragtag American OEM manufacturers who were, like, willing to hear me out and be like, yeah, sure we can.
00;21;32;16 - 00;21;52;10
Chris
We can flash Android devices for you and like and the only reason I could do these things is because I was running product for a mobile operator, right? Even to just have these conversations, I had to have be like, oh yeah, I got 500,000 subscribers. And I'm, you know, I'm interested in screwing around with this, that and the other thing, because otherwise the barrier was so high.
00;21;52;12 - 00;22;17;07
Aaron
And I think like, that's the positive case for all this, like the barriers coming lower and people, you know, I think are going to absorb a lot of the efficiency for themselves. Right. And I think there's been a couple articles that have noted that, like if you're really cracked out and using like all the AI tools to the full tilt, you're probably and but you say you're doing that at your job like you're not passing along that efficiency fully to your employer.
00;22;17;07 - 00;22;38;20
Aaron
You're just spending more time maybe doing research on something or, you know, or just twiddling your thumbs, and you know, using it not productively. But I think, a bunch of folks will, and that's just going to open up a whole bunch of different things. Like I saw somebody just on my timeline who was building out, like some 3D printed robotic arms and beginning to train them.
00;22;38;24 - 00;23;02;04
Aaron
Now that may go nowhere, but maybe, you know, maybe that person is on to something new that, you know, some of the larger robotics companies hadn't figured out yet. And that becomes something important. I think that's why these, like, open, more permissive systems like we have in the, in the States work. I think we're starting to see the economy kind of like, like move a little bit more positively.
00;23;02;06 - 00;23;20;20
Aaron
Right? I think people are anticipating pretty high GDP growth numbers. And I think that that's only going to accelerate as like this tinkerer class, like, really wraps its arms around all the cool things that can get built. And, you know, I think the same thing kind of happened with electricity, right? Like, you know, that's where we got like singer and toasters and air conditioners.
00;23;20;20 - 00;23;33;09
Aaron
Right? And they were scattered all over the country like it was a pretty healthy way to build new stuff. And I feel like we're, we're every or every day, every quarter, we're getting a little bit closer to seeing that like re replicate itself, which I think is pretty cool.
00;23;33;12 - 00;23;57;08
Pri
Tinker kind of reminds me of like what web two did for information. And then you had like the rise of like, influencers and YouTube the content. Yeah, yeah. Like the of the content. I mean, this is kind of a version of that what we're going to probably see, just a new class and maybe we're calling them tinkerers, but because it's, it's like somewhat of the tools of social media were so accessible now like, you know, 3D printing hardware, you're creating a circuit board, doing all that.
00;23;57;12 - 00;24;08;13
Pri
You know, work is so accessible. And then software is effectively free and quick, like you're just going to it's going to be really interesting to see what these like, this new crop of people looks like.
00;24;08;15 - 00;24;36;10
Aaron
And I think you're going to get even like AI based education or learning systems that will make it easier for you to like, learn it. So let's say you wanted to like, you know, print a like a chip order or learn how to do like soldering or some of these like more complicated tasks. I wouldn't be surprised. But, you know, some of the advancements with like, you know, being able to read the room or, you know, computer vision advancements that that applies to, like some of this more like tactical physical work as well.
00;24;36;13 - 00;24;58;17
Aaron
And so, you know, you can probably get up to speed in a couple days on like how to actually like, you know, modify hardware just because you've got this AI system that's telling you, like, no, don't do it. They're right. Like you're going to break the board in like a really easy way to do and a much better way than like watching a YouTube video or reading a textbook or, you know, walking through some sort of manual that's written in 15 languages.
00;24;58;19 - 00;25;15;01
Chris
All right, let's pause for a second and let's play the game of Rochester versus the network state, because Rochester, Aaron was one of these towns that only like became Rochester because what Eastman Kodak was up there, like, I don't even understand like the industrial history of Rochester, but.
00;25;15;02 - 00;25;18;14
Aaron
Oh, I know, I know a little bit about this. Oddly. So it was.
00;25;18;15 - 00;25;20;13
Chris
Dropboxes he ready?
00;25;20;14 - 00;25;21;26
Pri
I think you know this.
00;25;21;28 - 00;25;44;14
Aaron
Yeah, I know this because my, my dad, before he passed away, moved up there. It was one of the first major like exurbs where like these suburbs and like boom towns in America. And at the time, there was all these utopian like, communities that all took root in upstate New York. And Rochester was one of them.
00;25;44;17 - 00;26;12;06
Aaron
And it kind of was like these, these silicon Valley, San Francisco of, you know, the early electrical age. And, it produced like a handful of big companies that just emerged in that Kodak being the most notable one, probably. But lots of folks don't even remember what Kodak was. And it's famous for photography, but it actually was like a huge innovation lab and a lot of advancements that we had with vision or optics really came from Kodak.
00;26;12;08 - 00;26;38;02
Aaron
And then there was like a cluster of companies really kind of tackling that. And that's in part why it led to, and was one of the early champions of some social movements. It kind of came up from Rochester, this like weird mix of like utopianism plus technology craze. So I mean, I, you know, I think that there's still people, you know, kids of, you know, second, third, fourth generation, kids, that come from kind of that stew.
00;26;38;04 - 00;26;55;06
Aaron
And I think that they're going to probably do a pretty good job here, you know, like same thing in Michigan, Chris. Right. Like how many, how many kids of engineers still live up there? Right? Tom. Right. It's kind of just like lurking in there and like the back of their minds. They just haven't been able to use it or use those skills.
00;26;55;09 - 00;27;15;05
Chris
And so I guess what I'm asking is will we see these sort of regional innovation hubs, or will all those kids be more attracted to this network state concept and the fact that, you know, the self attraction of life, like minds, will they all end up clustering in frontier towers and and whatnot?
00;27;15;08 - 00;27;33;22
Aaron
I think both, right. Like, I don't know. I think it's a great question, but I think we, I think if I, was able to, put my thumb on the scale of how I'd wanted to develop you, I think you do want it to be widely distributed across the country. I think that's kind of what we saw with content creators.
00;27;33;22 - 00;27;37;13
Aaron
Like what you were saying, like Mr. Beast, is what, from, like, rural North Carolina?
00;27;37;13 - 00;27;38;26
Pri
Yeah. They can emerge from anywhere.
00;27;38;28 - 00;27;53;19
Aaron
And I thought that that's, like, kind of healthy, like, you know, that part of the country just has a different perspective than, you know, as folks here on the coasts. I just think that that those voices that like, diversity of thought is just important and healthy and, and drives innovation.
00;27;53;21 - 00;28;23;18
Chris
Well, here's like an in-between case, which is, El Segundo. Right. El Segundo, besides being famous for like The Tribe Called Quest song was is like it's the backyard of LAX. And so DirectTV was based out of there for a while, but then there's just a lot of like, aviation and mechanical, work, you know, that was like hanging around El Segundo forever that I don't think anyone would, would consider particularly high tech.
00;28;23;18 - 00;28;30;22
Chris
But now El Segundo is the shit. If you if you want to build like, killer drone, please. Ornery?. Yeah. That's right.
00;28;30;25 - 00;28;32;22
Aaron
Yeah. That's where you go. Hooray!
00;28;32;22 - 00;28;55;16
Pri
I think Daniel and our team went to like a barbecue there, but it's like a similar. But it's like not like a but it's not. And he said it was like really fun. And you know all these emerging like new young founders that are doing all defense. I mean it's like not dissimilar to the vibe of Frontier Tower or like if I had to guess like I do think it's that's probably a really good example of like, you know, frontier is in the center of San Francisco, but like, I'm sure we see these little like, places pop up.
00;28;55;18 - 00;29;06;11
Chris
Now, El Segundo did have the benefit of Tesla being located there. So between DirectTV and Anduril or there was a little company called Tesla that worked out of there. And the why.
00;29;06;14 - 00;29;18;08
Aaron
Why they choose that Chris though, right. Probably because there's an engineering base and it was close enough to like major cities in. It's kind of like the like in new Jersey in New York. Right. Isn't that. Yeah.
00;29;18;11 - 00;29;43;29
Chris
El Segundo is it's L.A., right? It's I actually lived, in Playa del Rey next door for a year. And so it kind of it straddles the the South Bay, which is a really nice set of beach cities like Manhattan Beach, Hermosa. Redondo. And then, you know, you go over the hill and you're in Venice, Santa Monica.
00;29;43;29 - 00;30;00;00
Chris
And so, like, it is like just this, you know, sort of industrial no man's land between a lot of interesting places, like, let's let's not pretend like El Segundo, you know, is is, down in Orange County and spun out of, like, you know, Lockheed Martin or something.
00;30;00;07 - 00;30;05;23
Pri
No. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, it's probably not the best example we need, like, something in, like, Omaha to make this make sense.
00;30;05;23 - 00;30;19;07
Aaron
I just think that there's these pockets. I mean, even Silicon Valley, like, it became Silicon Valley. It's called that because that's where early, you know, aerospace stuff was being developed. Right. And in parts of LA and in parts of San Diego, and I think the.
00;30;19;07 - 00;30;25;13
Chris
Company was it Fairbanks. Is that the name of the semiconductor company that started the whole thing? It may have been.
00;30;25;15 - 00;30;30;20
Pri
It was Lockheed Am. I like, mistaken at that? Lockheed was like a huge boon to me.
00;30;30;26 - 00;30;50;12
Aaron
They may have had one of their offices there too, but I think it just like you get a, 1 or 2 companies that just drop down roots, you know, they bring in talent or they train up, you know, folks that are locally and now they just have like a slight like edge there. And it just compounds, I think you just kind of see that across the board.
00;30;50;15 - 00;31;16;18
Aaron
But I just think, you know, I think we're going to like and hopefully we do see like kind of a revival of, like some of these pockets, you know, you know, it's I think a lot of people are like worried about, like I, you know, taking their jobs away. But I think it's just a great leveler and it enables talented folks to really emerge from lots of different places, not just that place, you know, the traditional places that we look today.
00;31;16;21 - 00;31;40;24
Chris
Yeah. There you go. I will say this, since we're like, talking about regional, strengths and and off places in California, Orange County is designed skills are crazy good. And we would have never had a mint mobile had there not been so much like, young, fresh and affordable design talent out in Orange County that we could build our own in-house agency.
00;31;40;26 - 00;31;43;19
Chris
And so, yeah, this stuff is all over the place.
00;31;43;22 - 00;32;03;17
Aaron
Yeah. And I, you know, I think, you know, some other folks are commenting on this, but just this I think it's important for open systems to show that they can win. I think that that's beginning to manifest. And I think that just super powerful. And I think it's just going to like really show that, you know, we don't need to live in these like zero sum games like Open Systems are positive.
00;32;03;17 - 00;32;06;14
Aaron
Some games and it feels like we're moving back to that.
00;32;06;16 - 00;32;15;00
Chris
By the way, another great example is DeFi, which clearly is the future of France. Okay, so I just had to make that. You forgot.
00;32;15;02 - 00;32;18;17
Pri
I forgot, I forgot, I forgot about that meme.
00;32;18;19 - 00;32;20;18
Chris
That was a great meme. That was a good one.
00;32;20;19 - 00;32;43;12
Aaron
So many good ones. On the DeFi side though. I mean, I guess the other big news outside of Pri's new peptide cocktail is some, some rough, rough water around the Clarity Act. So just for folks that may be following at home, that got that bill got marked up in one of the committees that it's coming out of in the Senate.
00;32;43;15 - 00;33;08;27
Aaron
The revised bill had a lot of the perspective of the traditional finance industry as part of it, leading Coinbase and some other folks in the digital asset crypto ecosystem to basically say that they're not going to support the bill on the on the one hand, I just thought it was interesting just to watch, you know, like traditional finance, like flex its political muscle, which obviously has, you know, some pretty big muscles there.
00;33;08;29 - 00;33;33;20
Aaron
But number two, it was interesting to kind of just see what they're really worried about. And it's primarily yield. Right. I think that, the core thing that happens with DeFi is that it just exposes yield and turns it into more of an egalitarian, equal footing marketplace. And that just seems absolutely terrifying to the banks, because they mostly take that yield and put it into the pockets of themselves and their shareholders.
00;33;33;23 - 00;33;50;11
Aaron
So I'm just kind of curious to see where it kind of lands on this front. Like, who's going to win? Like how strong is the the crypto lobby versus like kind of the incumbent lobby? It's one of these like interesting moments where you're you're kind of watching it play out. I think the last time this really happened was around copyright.
00;33;50;11 - 00;34;05;04
Aaron
Right? Where like, the tech industry lined up against the music and music industry in Hollywood and ultimately got enough concessions to kind of build out more tech, I'm hoping the same thing happens here. Are you guys following this, or am I just like, getting nerd sniped by this?
00;34;05;06 - 00;34;18;29
Chris
No, no, I'm following you. Like, a surface level, I guess I'd ask, do you think it's really about yield, or do you think it's about being able also being able to lend against the deposits? Because that's the other part that changes here.
00;34;19;01 - 00;34;44;07
Aaron
I think it's primarily about yield. I think that businesses that are currently built in crypto, that are keeping that yield, want to keep it that way and ultimately like that's the their customer base is and capital base. So I think that's why you see in the UK there was some bills there where they were trying to limit the amount of dollars you could put into, I think it was like either pound based stablecoins or, European based stablecoins.
00;34;44;13 - 00;34;52;22
Aaron
They don't want capital flight from the banks. And I think that that's a strong argument for them because the financial regulators don't want that either. That creates instability.
00;34;52;25 - 00;35;04;20
Pri
And I think smooth break thing here, which I'm not fully understanding, is yeah, okay. Why are you why are the banks that like don't want why don't they want yield. Like they could also be benefiting from that.
00;35;04;20 - 00;35;24;22
Aaron
So this is pretty much a Coinbase position. Yeah. So and that's what it ultimately comes down to. You know these businesses that operate in crypto can just operate at a much much lower with a much, much smaller footprint. And have much, much higher, margins. And I think the banks are worried about competing there. They just don't know if they can do it.
00;35;24;22 - 00;35;44;03
Aaron
Right. And so they'd rather like, slow it down and just keep on playing the game that they're playing. And so Coinbase is coming back and saying, look you guys can compete too. Like we want to have competition here. It's good for consumers and you know yada yada yada. So we'll see what wins. My sense is they'll probably just meet somewhere in the middle and nobody will be happy.
00;35;44;03 - 00;35;51;17
Aaron
And then it will be a perfectly constructed law, poorly drafted. Everybody's unhappy with it. But we move kind of forward.
00;35;51;20 - 00;35;58;08
Pri
I mean, as long as you don't take yield away, that would be a bummer. Like, I don't know, but it's pretty bad. Like, let's mean you will.
00;35;58;08 - 00;35;59;13
Aaron
It's just where we are now.
00;35;59;13 - 00;36;14;26
Chris
You will get 0.5% savings on your Bank of America account, and you will be happy. And you you will thank your lucky stars. You live in the land of the free and you can take the top off your water bottle, unlike in the UK.
00;36;14;29 - 00;36;21;27
Aaron
Hey, why did they. That design decision on that bottle drives me. Why? Like why do they do that? It's so annoying.
00;36;21;29 - 00;36;33;15
Chris
Like, I don't know, like I hear you. And the other thing is like, I'm only in Europe, you know, like every, I don't know, year, year and a half or something. And so I forget it exists. And then I get over there, I'm like, oh, right.
00;36;33;15 - 00;36;46;06
Pri
This thing I know I love the memes out there, like the most innovation that's come out of Europe. And just like a screenshot of the cap, have you seen this? Before on Twitter.
00;36;46;07 - 00;36;49;03
Aaron
People are brutal, you know, God bless. God bless the internet.
00;36;49;03 - 00;36;50;01
Pri
So funny.
00;36;50;08 - 00;37;01;26
Chris
If we're doing, internet memes, I someone put a banger of a tweet out overnight and that was, what Shohei Ohtani’s plan for the for the Dodgers after the Kyle Tucker is.
00;37;01;29 - 00;37;03;00
Aaron
What do they say.
00;37;03;03 - 00;37;05;18
Chris
Oh that was the joke right there.
00;37;05;20 - 00;37;06;15
Aaron
Oh. Got it. Yeah.
00;37;06;18 - 00;37;21;20
Chris
Yeah I had friends texted me last night. Apparently Uncle Steve was, making jokes about watching for the white smoke. And so I thought we had Kyle Tucker in the bag. And then, No, the Dodgers, they got him. Dodgers harder.
00;37;21;23 - 00;37;27;25
Aaron
Yeah. They just they're they're, the of baseball. They're just pulling in all the top talent.
00;37;27;27 - 00;37;33;08
Chris
If they're the default of baseball, that they might be the, Terra Luna of baseball.
00;37;33;11 - 00;37;49;27
Aaron
I hope not, but just talking about top talent. What? What do you guys think about, MrBeast and this Bitmain investment, 200 million bucks is, did Eve just get, like, an alpha predator? You know, content creator to, to support its, decentralized vision? Like his?
00;37;49;28 - 00;37;53;12
Chris
I thought Mr. Beast was cooked. I thought he was,
00;37;53;15 - 00;38;04;28
Pri
I think he is, but he still has, like, insane. I think he has. But at the same time, he still has, like, insane distribution. Like, he's, like, probably cooked to us, but, like, I feel like a lot of people still watch that stuff.
00;38;05;00 - 00;38;12;24
Aaron
Do you think he's got like top ten global distribution? I know the numbers are eyewatering, but like, do you think The Times or Mr. Beast has more distribution?
00;38;12;26 - 00;38;14;02
Pri
It's a good question.
00;38;14;05 - 00;38;16;28
Chris
There is distribution and there's influence.
00;38;17;00 - 00;38;20;28
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. But I think the two kind of roughly go hand in hand over time. Right.
00;38;21;01 - 00;38;26;07
Chris
And just forgive my ignorance. Is Bitmain a DAO or is Bitmain an actual miner?
00;38;26;10 - 00;38;50;19
Aaron
It's a DAO. It's Tommy's dad. I don't know where that $200 million came from, but I thought it was a little interesting. I imagine they're they're doing it in order to, you know, I'm assuming solidify Bitmain's position, but I think more broadly, I, I'd imagine that it was kind of an acknowledgment that there would be some promotional aspects for ETH, you think.
00;38;50;19 - 00;39;09;20
Aaron
Right? Or at least like some of the, the primitives of it. I don't know if this means, like Mr. Beast is going to explore like content tokens or like all these other bits, or maybe he's going to promote a bit miner or, you know, maybe more innocently, they just thought it was a really smart investment, which it, it very, very well may be or turn out to be.
00;39;09;23 - 00;39;29;25
Chris
I would hope so. But we're not in the business for financial advice. I will say the last time I saw Mr. Beast, was Amazon Prime. Between football games pushing some like, ridiculous, mash up with Mr. Beast and Survivor. And so I'm glad Mr. Beast is at least like, you know, doing things in this century now.
00;39;29;28 - 00;39;31;06
Aaron
He's like, completely.
00;39;31;08 - 00;39;37;16
Chris
Like, how the hell is survivor still, like, chugging along? And why on earth is Mr. Beast want to like, take take part in that?
00;39;37;16 - 00;39;39;19
Aaron
You know, dude, that show crushed.
00;39;39;19 - 00;39;41;00
Pri
It's like huge.
00;39;41;02 - 00;39;44;06
Aaron
It's got like a huge number of people that just love that. I don't know.
00;39;44;06 - 00;39;55;25
Pri
Why. I mean, you know, Mike, Mike white, the creator of White Lotus was on it. And like my favorite thing is like YouTube, like Mike white does like on survivor. And he's so funny. He's like obsessed with survivor.
00;39;55;27 - 00;40;02;08
Aaron
Yeah. It's like kind of weird. It's snipes people. Chris like it. It just captures people.
00;40;02;11 - 00;40;19;16
Pri
Palmer Luckey actually like was, I think on a panel saying that he doesn't want to take off any time for work unless that unless he is able to be a survivor contestant and he's, like, already written that into his, like, for employment contract with his board and stuff like he would take off if survivor accepted him. But they never have.
00;40;19;16 - 00;40;21;11
Pri
And he's like applied every year or something.
00;40;21;18 - 00;40;23;28
Chris
He's applied every single year's survivor.
00;40;24;01 - 00;40;29;09
Pri
I don't know if he's applied he like there was some quote I probably misquoting it, but it was like he's like applied a bunch and never gotten.
00;40;29;09 - 00;40;49;08
Chris
Then I wonder if this is like a self-made things. I think Palmer Luckey is a self-made guy. I like when I got like sniped on survivor. It was when I was living down in Hawthorne in the in the South Bay. But in fairness to me, this is also like 1999 when survivor like, I think first came out. So but you know what?
00;40;49;08 - 00;41;09;15
Chris
Hey, good for Mark Burnett. I I think he like, has done some really interesting stuff way, way back in the day, he ran the eco challenge, which was like just absolutely insane. It was like the wildest TV you ever saw would come on, like, once a year. And it was on, like, USA networks. Like it was that long ago.
00;41;09;15 - 00;41;31;02
Chris
But, you know, it was like this, 100 mile course through the wilderness, you know, like orienteering and like adventure kayaking and mountain climbing and like this, like New Zealand team always won and they just didn't sleep for four days and they covered like 100 miles. I was the craziest thing. And that's that's what launched Mark Burnett way, way back in the day.
00;41;31;04 - 00;41;35;18
Chris
And now he's just chugging along with Survivor season 92.
00;41;35;21 - 00;41;45;17
Pri
Literally cult cult following, I guess. Speaking of, survivor, should we talk about human survival quickly in the age of AI? Anyone like that? That's it.
00;41;45;19 - 00;41;46;14
Chris
Wow.
00;41;46;16 - 00;41;47;29
Aaron
What's what's the issue there?
00;41;47;29 - 00;41;51;26
Pri
Pretty. Yeah, well, this is a weird transition.
00;41;51;28 - 00;41;56;08
Chris
Now the is 72% peptides. She's worried about the human race.
00;41;56;08 - 00;42;00;14
Aaron
She's got her long running prediction models in the back of her mind.
00;42;00;17 - 00;42;05;14
Pri
I've been worried for a while. To be fair. I'm not a doomer. I'm not a doomer. But,
00;42;05;16 - 00;42;11;22
Aaron
You've got these doomer leanings. Pri, and definitely doomer-ish and Jason.
00;42;11;24 - 00;42;30;18
Chris
On the, net society optimism scale. Aaron is clearly, like, lapped all of us. And then like, Derek could probably pull in a close second and. Yeah. So I'm like in a depending on the day of the week I my glasses often not half full.
00;42;30;22 - 00;42;33;17
Aaron
You're a centrist Democrats. You're a centrist Boomer.
00;42;33;17 - 00;42;35;14
Pri
You think you think I'm at the bottom?
00;42;35;16 - 00;42;36;08
Chris
I think you're.
00;42;36;08 - 00;42;37;04
Aaron
doomer.
00;42;37;07 - 00;42;42;06
Pri
Yeah. I'm not. Dude, are you kidding me? Chris is more humor than me. Are you guys joking?
00;42;42;12 - 00;42;45;01
Aaron
I think you're I think you win the doomer prize.
00;42;45;03 - 00;42;51;24
Chris
All right, all right. Here. I feel like I'm rationalist. doomer. You're irrational, this duma. How's that? I think.
00;42;51;26 - 00;42;55;28
Aaron
She's rational. Her worries irrational. She's not a rational, Chris.
00;42;56;01 - 00;43;01;18
Pri
Okay, like the stuff that I've said that I was, like, worried about or actually manifesting, though.
00;43;01;18 - 00;43;10;07
Aaron
What's manifesting? What's happened? Like what we Ottomated some like, you know, white collar Scott work like what? Guess has happened.
00;43;10;09 - 00;43;26;03
Pri
Yeah. Fair enough. I mean, I don't know, I do think that some of what I have said is like, I just like this. I think it is. I think there's gonna be less people in places like I've talked to, like several founders and like many of them are talking about how they never have to scale or start up again, like, and they have to engineer and I'm like, that's it.
00;43;26;03 - 00;43;42;00
Pri
And like, they, you know, they they don't want to hire ever. I feel like that is I'm not saying that's a doomer, but it's not like there's high growth in as far as labor is concerned. I mean, GDP and other growth exist. But that doesn't mean that people will have jobs.
00;43;42;03 - 00;44;04;21
Chris
That well, that's a very like rational set of doomers, doomer ism, to have. And it's extremely fair. I, I don't know how this is. This is going like I've got I brought an employee on. Right. I got my guy. We're working together and like, you know, he is taking a little bit to get up to speed. It's great.
00;44;04;21 - 00;44;25;09
Chris
But like, it's also I'm plowing through stuff so quick, so fast. Like the other day I had like I had to say to myself, get give you guys some work here. Right. And like so I'm sure like that plate will fill right. At the same time I can understand like what you're talking about where like these people are saying, I'm only going to hire two people if.
00;44;25;09 - 00;44;42;20
Pri
I mean, I think it's like a point of bragging. It's like a braggadocious thing and it's like, yeah, like, you know what? Everyone on here good. Or like, I don't need to like, whatever. Like, I think it's actually cool to be lean, which I think is always kind of been the case in like the startup world, but it feels especially more pronounced now because people can, like, lean on technology to actually keep things lean.
00;44;42;23 - 00;44;43;10
Chris
I think you're.
00;44;43;10 - 00;45;02;24
Aaron
Going to get more do more pre when you start to see like the robots come out, because to me that yeah, that's like more like actually has the chance of physical violence. And you know looking at some previews like I saw some like little sizzle reel that, that, Elon posted with Optimus, like, it looks pretty friggin smooth.
00;45;02;26 - 00;45;04;01
Pri
Like, I mean, I'm like obsessed.
00;45;04;05 - 00;45;30;11
Aaron
Mean and and and and fluid. Yeah. But like Waymo doesn't have, like, arms and legs and can chase you down into an alley. Right. So I just think that that's the piece that, that's the piece that I think is probably the most terrifying. And to me, that's not like, I mean, AI is going to be clearly used extensively for robotics, but to me, that just like more embodied AI or robotics is, is probably more concerning.
00;45;30;13 - 00;45;31;00
Chris
But here we go.
00;45;31;00 - 00;45;56;00
Aaron
The other stuff, like not hiring an accountant, like, who cares? Like, like the accounts are smart. They probably, you know, probably 60% of them load their job, right? 70%, 70% of them are probably bad at their job. And so now we just don't have to worry about that as a species anymore. Like that's great. And like that quantitative and reasoning I'm sure will be put to better to better use.
00;45;56;00 - 00;45;57;27
Aaron
Right. So I think that just because.
00;45;58;00 - 00;46;01;24
Pri
That's the optimist take for sure. Like and I agree with that. Like I think that both can be true.
00;46;02;01 - 00;46;12;28
Chris
Aaron is far and away the most optimistic of us, except for when it comes to the killer robot corollary, which he cannot. That's true. That is is one chain of pessimism.
00;46;13;00 - 00;46;14;14
Pri
That's like your weakness.
00;46;14;17 - 00;46;37;21
Aaron
That's that's my Achilles heel. That's everybody's Achilles here. Like, okay, and not to get dark, but let's go through it like we saw the atrocities or have read about that purported atrocities that are happening in Iran. Right. They cut the internet now picture like robotic army being able to like move through society with like a totalitarian government like that is terrifying.
00;46;37;24 - 00;46;46;17
Aaron
Like a, like an actual soulless thing that's like, like controlled or programed by the wrong people. Like, what does that look like?
00;46;46;20 - 00;46;48;26
Pri
Not great. Yeah.
00;46;48;28 - 00;46;52;23
Chris
No, you that is a chilling point.
00;46;52;25 - 00;47;17;22
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, but that's going to happen, right. Like I do I think the do I think that that's going to happen in like free societies like. No. But like, you know what 60% of societies, 40% of societies free, like there's billions of people that they're literally that's going to be the the boot on their neck. And it's going to be able to like, have like unified information about, like their history, like things that they purchase, like it's all going to be available.
00;47;17;22 - 00;47;23;28
Aaron
Right. And a nanosecond to these, these systems. So like that's the the dark dystopian future.
00;47;24;02 - 00;47;47;05
Chris
Yes. In your dark dark dark dystopian future, I'm going to be walking down the street. A killer robot is going to officially recognize me, get every transcript of necessary track down some like random quip I made, some dark joke I made, decided it's politically it's offensive. Native will offend offense, yes.
00;47;47;07 - 00;47;52;07
Aaron
But then you're done and it's going to be a fucking dog that does it, Chris. That's what's going to kill. Yeah.
00;47;52;09 - 00;48;04;21
Chris
Well, I need to be wearing some. Yeah. Yet to be developed body armor that can protect me from this. I don't know, maybe I just need to stop making jokes. Maybe all my jokes need to be, xQc sent.
00;48;04;23 - 00;48;21;00
Aaron
I mean, kind of. I mean, that's what I. That's what I worry about. If we want to go into more corner and place like that, but like the the other stuff, I'm not saying it's not going to impact certain industries and businesses more acutely. I think that's going to happen. I think we saw that with the internet and, you know, media industries.
00;48;21;00 - 00;48;42;01
Aaron
But, you know, and I don't I feel horrible for folks that had to live through that. If you were like a record executive in the early two, thousands like that was a tough period. But, you know, the music industry's growing again. You know it, it adjusted. There's more media than ever. There's a whole constellation of creators, right, that are crushing in ways that they wouldn't have been able to do before.
00;48;42;01 - 00;48;48;21
Aaron
And like the the march of history just continues. So I just I'm not as worried about this stuff.
00;48;48;23 - 00;49;20;24
Pri
Yeah. I mean, I'm not either. But you know what? It is interesting when my own issue is even like transitioning here, it's like, I don't know if you guys saw like Matthew McConaughey, like just trademarking himself. Yeah. I just I don't know, to me, like, yes, it's like kind of a silly story, but it does kind of make you think that, like, we as humans are going to be like intellectual property and like people are going out of their way to even go get like a government stamp to prove that in, in case of, like, deepfakes or, you know, certain slogans like, I think the all right, all right, all right, like slogan he kind
00;49;20;24 - 00;49;36;28
Pri
of wants to trademark. And I guess it's not been new. Like I think humans have trademarked their sayings and likeness and all of that, but I don't know, is it typical to trademark one's self? Like, I don't know if I've really seen that before. Maybe I'm just not thinking.
00;49;36;28 - 00;49;39;23
Aaron
I haven't heard it. I think didn't in sports.
00;49;39;25 - 00;49;40;20
Chris
I think it happened.
00;49;40;24 - 00;49;41;07
Pri
They do.
00;49;41;11 - 00;50;13;18
Chris
It's like TV 6 or 7, like that sort of stuff definitely pops up in sports where they they want to uphold the brand value. But then on the flip side, like in sports, we're seeing franchises get turned down for trademarks a lot now, like the Utah or the hockey team or the mammoth, because whatever else they wanted to be, they couldn't get the trademark for the Oakland Athletics, a team that has existed for over 100 years, tried to trade.
00;50;13;18 - 00;50;53;01
Chris
You know, they're moving to Vegas and they tried to get the trademark for Las Vegas athletics, and they got shot down trademarks. A weird thing like I, I'm guessing from McConaughey, it's probably about the business of his likeness, especially now that he's doing so many commercials. You know, this notion of it's probably not a ton of work to do if you're McConaughey enterprises, and that you can assume that, like McConaughey is unique in a figure that like, he is kind of this archetype that can extend beyond, you know, the the useful life stand of McConaughey himself.
00;50;53;04 - 00;51;03;14
Chris
So I think I kind of get it, he that he's always been a bit of a different cat. But you know, now he's out chilling, sass. So who knows.
00;51;03;14 - 00;51;08;05
Pri
Yeah, yeah. I just I was like, I wonder if, like, we see that trend pick up a bit. You know.
00;51;08;07 - 00;51;36;15
Aaron
I think we're going to because I think that this stuff's going to become more valuable. Right. Like if, if, if he, he obviously has a recognizable face and brand. Right. And now he can take that if he has sufficient protection and begin to monetize that in different ways. Right. Like there's no reason that he, he couldn't, you know, in a year or so, like, make a movie, piece of media and it's translated into a thousand different languages, right, with a click of a button.
00;51;36;18 - 00;51;55;13
Aaron
And now, you know, he can go and operate kind of globally at scale in a way that he probably couldn't before, you know, or his voice gets kind of embedded in the model. And now, you know, instead of, using like the Alexa voice, which they changed recently, and at least for my like, kids, it's super notable. Maybe you could subscribe and use his voice, right.
00;51;55;16 - 00;52;19;06
Aaron
And Amazon will give him a kickback. So I think that there's a lot of, like, subtle things that, you know, people with big brands and distribution will do and probably profit from that. So I think it's understandable that his legal teams thinking about that. It could also be just mentioning Prince. Like I think he, you know, the musician Prince like turned himself into like an a symbol and stopped using even his name.
00;52;19;06 - 00;52;25;04
Aaron
Prince in part, I think for like legal reasons. So maybe there's something weird legally that he's trying to do or some of his advisors.
00;52;25;04 - 00;52;26;16
Pri
I just wanna accomplish here.
00;52;26;16 - 00;52;31;28
Aaron
So, yeah, never, never forget about that piece. Like, maybe entered into a bad deal.
00;52;32;00 - 00;52;53;17
Chris
Yeah, that was leverage. But what's interesting to me in thinking about this, right, is it kind of points to almost like two different economies in terms of intellectual property and post authorship, because you could never do that to a meme, nor would you really want to do it to a meme, because the juice isn't worth the squeeze, right?
00;52;53;17 - 00;53;38;28
Chris
Like intellectual property is always a game of kings, and that game is. Do you have the money to enforce it right. And so there's a certain tipping point and there's a certain level of like institutional acceptance that you are a branded commodity in which it makes sense to actually go and have that enforcement apparatus around you. And so, you know, McConaughey may be looking at like, you know, his AI, Salesforce commercials or whatever the heck he's doing and saying, hey, I've crossed that chasm and now I am like a Davos level, Madison Avenue level commodity in which I need to be protected versus.
00;53;39;01 - 00;53;47;26
Chris
Yeah, when he was like a bunch of days and confused memes floating around on the internet or like The Wolf of Wall Street, like, you know, chest thumping, clip. Right.
00;53;47;26 - 00;54;06;08
Aaron
Like, have you seen, like, all these, like, you know, real time stream, filters where they can just turn you into another person? It always seems to be like like, Leo and Wolf of Wall Street, which I just think it's, like, so random. Like, why is this everybody picking that? Yeah, it's like.
00;54;06;08 - 00;54;12;11
Pri
Even like, did you see his, recently, the Golden Globe one? Like, he's like, something about him. It's like so watchable.
00;54;12;11 - 00;54;21;02
Aaron
I don't know, I mean, he's clearly I mean, lots of people clearly find him captivating, but like of all the captivating things, it's always him for some reason. I wonder why.
00;54;21;04 - 00;54;40;15
Pri
Actually made me laugh. When Nikki Glaser in the in the Golden Globes was, like, making fun of him dating like younger women. And he's like, she's like, yeah, I know it's a cheap joke, but if we just don't know anything else about you, man, like, open up. Like, I feel like part of his thing is, like, he just doesn't open up much.
00;54;40;15 - 00;54;42;14
Pri
And so he's like, this elusive.
00;54;42;14 - 00;54;44;16
Aaron
That's part of his, or aura farming.
00;54;44;20 - 00;54;45;02
Pri
Yeah.
00;54;45;05 - 00;55;13;29
Chris
You don't think he opens up through his roles like when he is this, like, sad sack burnout and, oh, the last Tarantino flick or one battle after another. Like, he's like a real deadbeat in one battle after another. And I do like, you say, like, we don't know a lot about Leo, and that's very true. But one, like, widely circulating story when I lived out in L.A about him involved House of Pies.
00;55;14;01 - 00;55;32;13
Chris
Or like he would send his boys down to, like, House of Pies and buy out the place. And it was just like a pie eating junky. And that was like, the only the only things he knew about Leo was like, he was an amazing actor. He dated, like smoking hot 20 year olds, and he like gorging on pies.
00;55;32;16 - 00;55;40;12
Chris
That was like what you knew about him in 2005 or something. And maybe we don't know anything more about him. So I don't know.
00;55;40;14 - 00;55;42;20
Pri
I actually didn't know,
00;55;42;23 - 00;55;46;06
Chris
I think he just kind of had to live out there at the time, you know?
00;55;46;09 - 00;55;59;09
Pri
Yeah, I guess, yeah. I mean, it's very it's maybe he picks these roles that are like sort of a part of who he is, but it's still like, you don't. Yeah. Anyways, we don't have to go into Leo and his psyche and who he is, but I feel like he is kind of elusive. And maybe that's like part of it.
00;55;59;12 - 00;56;08;29
Chris
Look at Jack, right? Once Jack Nicholson. Nicholson got to a certain age, he was just like, I want to be a recluse. Just hanging out with my bathrobe all day. Like, just leave me alone.
00;56;09;01 - 00;56;17;25
Aaron
Yeah, I feel like Johnny, that happened to Johnny Depp a little bit. He, like, went through his eccentric phase, and now he just wants to be a, you know, a.
00;56;17;27 - 00;56;18;26
Chris
Oh, look, if I'm being.
00;56;18;27 - 00;56;23;09
Pri
Kind of a horrible Amber Heard moment and.
00;56;23;09 - 00;56;25;12
Aaron
Yeah, just not not an excuse.
00;56;25;12 - 00;56;36;23
Pri
No. Like, I feel like. No, no, I'm saying I'm saying more like he. No, I don't even know what happened there, but really where it all ended. But I feel like that probably like like I feel like after that you don't remember much about him. Yeah.
00;56;36;25 - 00;56;38;02
Aaron
Yeah. That's fair.
00;56;38;04 - 00;57;04;07
Chris
Yeah. Like Johnny Depp could tolerate, like spending $500,000 on, like, Crystal skulls and, you know, pretending to be Keith Richards and, you know, but then, like, being a maybe toxic person in a relationship with another toxic person and then still seeing that, like, play out and, you know, what had to have been like both a damaging and costly legal battle was like, wait a second.
00;57;04;07 - 00;57;15;20
Chris
I can't just be like a goofball, like, you know, stoner who like these weird things and, like, be out here, like, you know, there are limits to how. I guess, you know, how strange you can get.
00;57;15;20 - 00;57;19;11
Aaron
Maybe it's a strange world. Strange world. Guys.
00;57;19;14 - 00;57;21;08
Chris
So Pri did a robot delivery.
00;57;21;10 - 00;57;48;27
Pri
Oh, I did, I did robot delivery I did. So that's the other thing. It's been fun to like. See the zerks on the road here. Which, you know, interesting form factor. And then it's like, interesting to see the Waymo form factor as have a seat and a steering wheel. And then I was at a hotel where I was like, kind of loving this, but I ordered DoorDash and they had a little robot that delivered and it would give me a call when I was in my room and it would say, like, hey, your robot's outside, and then I would take it, and then I would give it like, you know, a check mark for
00;57;48;29 - 00;57;59;21
Pri
delivering it. And then like on the screen, I would say like, yeah, I got, I got my package and then close it and then would like go roll away from me. And I was like, that's kind of cool. I haven't seen that before. That's new to me.
00;57;59;23 - 00;58;06;03
Chris
Do you think that's like, an effective thing or just for the novelty of having robot delivery?
00;58;06;06 - 00;58;22;04
Pri
I was actually thinking that I'm like, is this saving anyone like, that much time? I don't know, I think so, I mean, like the probably I mean, all I could do is like the front desk people put it in and then like, send it off to the room. So from that vantage point and if it's like really that seamless where I can easily call, I mean, you don't need to have people deliver stuff.
00;58;22;04 - 00;58;35;25
Pri
I mean, I would see these robots like in the lobby. So there's definitely like 5 to 8 of them. But yeah, I wonder, like what the logistics are around it. Like it was actually saving a lot of time and money. I'm sure it's saving money, but I wonder if it's, like, annoying.
00;58;35;27 - 00;58;51;04
Chris
Yeah, maybe they started freaking down. Who knows? All right. We, we both have a show in common, and it's back. Yes. And apparently we had some divergent views about the first episode, so let's, let's chop it up on industry.
00;58;51;07 - 00;59;24;27
Pri
Yeah. I mean, dude, that's one of the best shows on TV right now. Seriously, I get that, like the first episode was a little table setting, but I think it's going to be a good season. Like, I felt like the dynamic around like the yeah, whatever. It was like the only fan content creator payment provider and like, oh, it was like the sociopaths were out like obviously Harper, and that whole ecosystem, did they send that one guy off who started, who went to San Francisco to like to do the tech company, or is he going to come back?
00;59;24;27 - 00;59;40;02
Pri
I like, don't remember that, but I thought it was a good episode. I don't know, I thought the dialog was great. There's like one scene of dialog that I went back to, which was like, Kal Penn, and that other guy, like chatting. I thought that that was like really interesting dialog, like well-written dialog.
00;59;40;04 - 01;00;01;11
Chris
All right. So a yeah, way too much table setting. I'm fine with that. If you have to get it out of the way in order to have like a satisfying season, right, I will I didn't say like I hated the episode. I just said I'm jury's out on the season because that was way too busy. So that was like one one quibble I had with it.
01;00;01;11 - 01;00;28;25
Chris
And then the other one was, yes, this tinder company with Kal Penn and the other dude, they had the same conversation ten different times, and I don't really love the repetition. And I didn't like the amount of focus on new characters. Like, you know, it was almost like we we got a standalone Kal Penn talk show. Now, obviously, I assume that, Jesse is his name, right?
01;00;28;25 - 01;00;51;18
Chris
Is going to team up with Harper and Eric at some point in a vengeance quest. That's why he got so much screen time. But, yeah, I don't know, I like it. It moved a little. It was a little. Both too sweeping, around characters. I cared about, you know? Like, I love, I love Eric. He's, like, probably my favorite character on the show.
01;00;51;21 - 01;01;12;04
Chris
And it was like, oh, you're doing like, a they had him dressed up looking like Samuel Jackson on the golf course with the backward Kangol and the the cigar. And then he's like, back in the fray all of a sudden, you know, that was like a little too, like speed run. Eric, I don't remember him cashing getting bought out for that much money to be this major for, but hey.
01;01;12;06 - 01;01;34;08
Chris
Okay, great. Let's let's bring bring our our, love hate duo back together. The most, volatile pairing in the show. I'm fine with all that. I actually the the one really, like, searing piece in in. That was when Harper goes and sees Otto and Otto just lays it out.
01;01;34;09 - 01;01;36;20
Pri
Oh yeah. That was really good.
01;01;36;22 - 01;01;58;28
Chris
Yeah. That was one of those, moments where, like, this show is in the moment where a lot of TV isn't right, like the world has moved on, and I don't feel like a lot of prestige TV or like any television really is current enough or like ballsy enough to address that, like head on.
01;01;59;00 - 01;02;14;01
Pri
Yeah, I agree with that. That was even like the I feel like I saw someone on Twitter, like I was like seeing the recap on the show. And like a lot of people are like, yeah, this show would not be able to exist in like even like 2023. Like it feels very current. Yeah. I thought that was interesting.
01;02;14;01 - 01;02;21;04
Pri
Dialog was his line. He's like I said, r***** in a management meeting. And I may say it again like.
01;02;21;07 - 01;02;21;19
Chris
Yeah, no.
01;02;21;19 - 01;02;43;04
Pri
I felt very like online. Yeah. And no it struck me. It felt very like online. Like I wouldn't be surprised if the writers are just like on Twitter all day. Yeah. It was, it was really interesting. There was like a I, I, there's like a spectator piece on Mickey Down who is the founder of not the founder, a writer. He's a writer.
01;02;43;04 - 01;03;03;28
Pri
And I think producer of industry and he, he like has like this whole piece basically about like how he was in New York promoting the show and he's just like wants to get the hell out of New York. And I think it's really interesting, I don't know, toward skimming. I shared it in our chat, but he's like in New York and he's like, I just need to get out of here.
01;03;04;01 - 01;03;23;21
Pri
It's like too glamorous. It's it's like he runs on the New York, runs on the notion. That confidence plus a good story equals truth. And he the city is filled with people speculating their narrative and everyone is obsessed with their self mythologizing. I was like, damn, he just like roasted New York. He's like, I got to go.
01;03;23;23 - 01;03;27;02
Chris
I mean, he's really roasting Manhattan in Brooklyn, by the way.
01;03;27;05 - 01;03;27;29
Pri
Yeah, I agree.
01;03;28;06 - 01;03;37;29
Chris
Yeah. No, like we don't have any of that going on over in Queens. But I get the point. If you're a certain person operating in certain circles, you're going to get exposed to that.
01;03;38;01 - 01;03;49;05
Pri
You're like starting the show. So it's like pretty. Yeah, like deep Manhattan Hollywood vibe. But yeah, totally. I think he's definitely speaking in a very narrow sense about New York.
01;03;49;12 - 01;03;53;17
Chris
Everyone speaks in a narrow sense about New York. It's true, except it's.
01;03;53;17 - 01;04;04;01
Pri
Funny. I like, what do people in San Francisco, a lot of people want to be in New York. What people like. How is it? Tell me. I would love to live there. I might I'm thinking about it like, I feel like I heard that at least four times from people here.
01;04;04;04 - 01;04;06;28
Chris
The bicoastal schizophrenia rages on.
01;04;07;01 - 01;04;09;14
Pri
Yeah, it's like the grass is always greener.
01;04;09;17 - 01;04;29;03
Chris
That's got to be such a young person's game. I don't know, once you've been everywhere, it's, you know, you see things for what they are. But that's like the beauty of being young and wanting that adventure in that romance. And, you know, hats off to everyone who is yearning for another metropolis out there.
01;04;29;05 - 01;04;29;28
Pri
Agreed.
01;04;30;00 - 01;04;33;04
Chris
All right, should we enter an exit here?
01;04;33;07 - 01;04;57;29
Pri
Yes. Let's do it. So. Hey, everyone, welcome to Net Society. It's me, Aaron, Chris, today, talking about all things art, tech, culture, AI, TV, and more. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer. And this is not financial advice.