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This podcast series is from Connect International, which is a Brussels based international network of organisations formed with a mission to create innovative European projects ensuring mainstreaming of digital rights and digital agenda with young people and other active citizens.
Digital generation voices in EU elections. We had a discussion about the role of digital youth in the future of EU with 2 candidates for the European Parliament.
Speaker 2:Hello, everybody. My name is Jelena, and I am general manager of the Connect International, one of the organizations that, is going to be your host, today. And
Speaker 3:this. Hi, Marco. Welcome everyone. I'm representing Out of the Box International and the second organization to, to organize this, debate today. And this is the 2nd, event we organized together with, Connect.
Speaker 3:1 was in the beginning of the year. It was the topic, if I'm not wrong, something called innovative youth involvement. We shared some good practices and outputs of projects we are, we are developing and implementing. And the second event today is dedicated for European elections. So just checking your agenda if you're a right event.
Speaker 3:So it is about European elections. And I pass for Jana to you to say couple of things about the rules of this session because every good session must have the rules.
Speaker 2:Yes. So, basically, we are in the house of, Connect International, let's say. It's a space where we have a having an off where we're having an office. And, this debate why we decided to to have small space and, just couple of people invited is basically because we envisage as a podcast. Yes.
Speaker 2:I have the pleasure to introduce person to my right, which is Sylvain Raulk List. And I hope I said it correctly. Right? Yes. She's, coming from, Denmark, and, she's there running for radical, radical menstrual.
Speaker 2:I almost said radical. It's the the other, yeah. Yes. So, and, Sis was actually a political adviser in the renew party, in, in European Parliament at the moment and also the candidate for the Liberals for the European Parliament in this, election. Apart from that, I have to mention the former president of climate and liberals of Europe because today we are discussing the youth policy and I think it's, the relevant.
Speaker 2:So welcome to, panel.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much. Thank you for answering it.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Okay. So on my, left, Ariane Gueraneza. So and then I I was Thank you very much. I was trying to I was practicing before the session, and, I'm I'm glad that you helped me. So you've been a climate policy manager.
Speaker 3:You work on industrial decarbonization, which is a very interesting topic for me as well, and also you're a member of the Friday group. We are all today also the members of the Friday group, or you we can maybe explain what it means for the people that don't know.
Speaker 5:I will.
Speaker 3:And you run for European elections. I would say, Flemish, Green Party, but also you are on the list of, young European Greens. I I in the past, I also had some, some work with young European greens. That's why, I guess, we sit sit like this. So welcome to the session as well.
Speaker 4:Thank
Speaker 5:you very much for inviting me. Very happy to be here. Yes.
Speaker 3:So, shall we start? Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. Why we we are discussing a lot about European elections.
Speaker 3:And, the first question that come to to when Neil and me were preparing this session is, like, since 2 of you are very also very young, why you run for this election? So what's the point of that, and how this where where is the place of youth in, all all these in your agenda? Maybe your party or in your product. So whoever wants to start.
Speaker 5:K. Let's not be ladies. I'll start. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:So, obviously, why did I decide to run now? It's 2024. Obviously, I work for a climate NGO, so I care about climate. And I realized that in the next 5 to 10 years, we're gonna have to make such important decisions.
Speaker 2:And at
Speaker 5:a certain point in time, I'm gonna say a really small anecdote that kind of propelled me this year to do it. As many millennials turning 30 was, a big thing for me, I started thinking about my life and what I think is important. And I thought about this one conversation I had with my 14 years younger sister when she was 5 or 4, and I was 17, and I was explaining climate, the climate crisis. And after I explained it to me, she turned around to me and told me, why did you do this? Why did you people ruin our earth, basically?
Speaker 5:And I was 17 at the time and I was like, how dare you lump me in with these adults? Like, I have nothing to do with them. I'm a child myself. I inherited this world. But after I turned 30, I realized, oh my god.
Speaker 5:I am the adults. I have to do something. I have a certain expertise and the time is, like, literally now. So that was my reason to participate in these elections. And youth, youth has a very, very important role in this campaign for us because in Belgium, we have voting age from 16 on on the European elections.
Speaker 5:So everyone older than 16 will be able to vote. And this was a very important thing that we fought for within the government as greens because we wanted this actually for all elections, but we got the European elections. So we have a specific youth campaign that is concentrated on, you know, public transport, on clean air, on the environment. So it's actually a very central role. And also in choosing candidates, we made sure that multiple strategic candidates are also young people in order to show that we're not just talking the talk.
Speaker 5:We're also walking the walk. So yeah.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I think for me, this is this is not my first time I run, but I was thinking last time I ran in in 2019, I had a slogan which was Europe is my home because that was how I felt, you know. I, had a I have a Dutch husband. I had lived in the Netherlands. I had studied in the UK.
Speaker 4:I had this feeling of, you know, freedom that I can really, like, use the free freedom of movement. I can live everywhere I I want to in Europe. And then I thought, should I run again? Because to be honest, being, you know, coming from a small country in a small party, if you're not number 1, it's not realistic you get elected. So so why run?
Speaker 4:But I thought about it, and recently, I I got a son. And I realized that actually Europe is not his home anymore because everywhere we look, right wing is on the rise. And they want to take away this fundamental freedom to live wherever you want. They don't want a strong Europe. They don't want a free Europe, and they don't want a green Europe.
Speaker 4:And that's why I thought, okay. I'm gonna run. I'm gonna fight for the votes that I can get from young people. I'm running in a district where the far right is the strongest at all. So it's a uphill battle, but it really matters.
Speaker 4:And that's also why I think this election really matters for young people. Because if you want to run and live in a free Europe and your kids one day should live in a strong free and green Europe, then this election really matters.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's actually, like, the why Europe matters. It's the debate in the Brussels also, but, across Europe. But also there is this other debate. It's like why the the role of the European Parliament as such is important.
Speaker 2:It's a question in different countries. Is it important? Do these policies come somewhere? And we wanted to know actually your standpoint on, on this. Like, why do you believe that European Parliament, is important?
Speaker 2:Is it important? And how you do you see the the role of European Parliament.
Speaker 5:If I can, like, start for me, the European Parliament is super important. I used to work as an adviser for the current Belgian Federal Minister of Energy, specifically on energy prices and energy poverty during an energy crisis. So that was fun. But, while I was working there, I realized so much of my job was just transposing European directives into Belgian law. Like, if people if the public would know how much of my job is only, like like, re reading what Europe is saying, seeing how it could be implemented somehow, and having negotiations with inside the government on how are we gonna implement this tiny little detail.
Speaker 5:And that's when I realized where people what people think Europe is and what it actually already is now are 2 separate things. So much of our laws that are, implemented on a national level have a European origin. And if they don't have a European origin, you have to talk to other member states to have some type of, policy coordination. So for me, the EP is the most powerful parliament in the world because it's not just even, like, within member states. As the European Union, we have such huge agenda setting power.
Speaker 5:Sometimes I make the joke about, like, yes. I'm running for the European Parliament and, like, I I came here as a refugee and Europe is my home, but my life as an African refugee coming here has always been kind of, like, in between European policy. For example, until I was, like, 6, I never had actual milk. I only had milk that was made from power from the excess milk production that was created by the common agricultural policy. And there are, like, all these tiny little things how Europe has influence on so many people's lives, not just in here in Europe.
Speaker 5:So, yes, it's the most powerful parliament in the world, and that's why it's so important.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. It's very important. I
Speaker 4:can actually
Speaker 2:yes. I, I had the pause for 1 minute because, yes. Yes.
Speaker 4:No. I I can only echo what you said. I mean, this is where we make legislation on paper for for 450,000,000. But, I mean, when we dive into the digital, topic maybe a bit deeper, I think we're also gonna talk about how the standards that we set in the EU, hopefully, we have seen it in other areas becomes the standards for the rest of the world. And that's why it really matters.
Speaker 4:But I think for many young people, it can still feel very far away. And we really have to dive into and find those example of how can you bring, you know, you're closer to them. So it's, you know, it's the, you know, the Erasmus program that actually without Erasmus, you can, you know, not go out out. It's the when you go on holiday that does free roaming and you can log on the Internet and you don't have to get these crazy bills. I guess, maybe if you're in your early twenties, you're not gonna remember how it was when you got these warning.
Speaker 4:And then, you know, all of a sudden, your your mobile bill was on on on hundreds and hundreds of euros. So I think it's really important that we keep as candidates, as young candidates, to remind that these are, like of course, it's also about, you know, the big geopolitical things, but it's also, like, these very close and everyday things.
Speaker 5:Mhmm. If I can, like, jump in. I also think it's a part of perception because I think for a lot of young people, for a lot of people in general, Europe is, you know, Ursula von der Leyen. It's Charlotte Mitchell. It's Margarita Verstacker.
Speaker 5:But, you know, premier Pedro Sanchez is also Europe. Premier Alexander de Croo. All these national like, Europe is not just what is happening here in Brussels and what is happening in Strasbourg. It's also the national leaders. It's also the ministers.
Speaker 5:And I think if for people, it would become a bit more clear that, hey. The institutions are not just the only thing that is the EU. All of your national leaders are also there making decisions. It would help people understand how important this level is and that it's actually a bit closer to them than they would even think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I would definitely agree, and, they make sure that sometimes so we believe that Europe is somewhere there, and it's not It's here.
Speaker 5:It's everywhere. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. All of us. Definitely.
Speaker 2:Yes. Marco, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You pass over to me. So I just I just, if you go to the the website of Politico, you find that, the the polls open just to I think it's interesting. 19 days, 13 hours and 34 minutes. So I think when we pick when it's when we speak about European elections, we always think, oh, but it's there, Summer. But no.
Speaker 3:It's just in 19 days. And we already spoke how's the campaign going for you, with 2 of you. And we are not aware that it's a little bit more than 2 weeks. Yeah. And, that brings to my mind this notion of important importance of these elections as you already mentioned.
Speaker 3:So looking at some data, if you compare the turnout of the elections in 2014, with the next ones, we found out that there's 8% more people voting. So that, in in almost, not almost, more than 50% of Europeans voted in the last European elections. So we speak about the importance of European Parliament. I think Europeans are getting more and more involved with it. So 50.6 percent last elections.
Speaker 3:That's quite high number considering that in some countries in in elections, we have below 50%. That's one thing. The second thing, the the turnout of young people, increased. I think, we organized another podcast, and we we were discussing that. I think around 12% of young people voted more in the previous election compared to the previous ones.
Speaker 3:So I think there is a general positive trend having more people, to vote. So we have session today about young people and then later on in digital. I want I want to still stay with the young people. So what, do you think could be some additional offers we can give to young people? Some of you already mentioned some of the policies or priorities, but maybe, what else we can do at European level to involve them a little bit more, in decision making process, maybe in the structures?
Speaker 3:I know you've been active also. You've been working department. You've been active also in the in in in in different levels. What could be other mechanisms that could that could be created and the young people say, yes, I want to get involved?
Speaker 5:Just to give an example from, like, my, youth. So I grew up in the Netherlands, and I also went to school there. And I remember, the 1st year of secondary school we had this week called Europe week. And during Europe week, basically, what we did all week was learn about the European Union, do a model, European parliaments, do these games. I remember well, I'm gonna show my age, but that was in 2005.
Speaker 5:And we had to play these role playing games where we would also have to play, countries that want to become member. I remember because I was Turkey, and I had to convince everyone to, like, allow Turkey as a member, country. And this whole week was not just, you know, the political, it was also a celebration of, like, you know, united in diversity. Let's have different types of food. Let's talk about different cultures and how we all came together.
Speaker 5:And, honestly, I think if that Europe week wasn't organized at my school, would I be a candidate now for the European Parliament? Honestly, I don't know. So we need to find a way to bring Europe closer to young people in a natural way very early on. Because I know that, like, 12 year old me was, like, so, like, oh my god. I'm part of this, like, big 500,000,000, like, strong family and there's all this history and that's how we're connected.
Speaker 5:And it kept my interest in the policy level going even afterwards. It's the reason why I studied in Brussels. It's the reason why all these things started to interest me. So instead of just concentrating on a couple of highly talented, because I'm not gonna lie, the people who are, like, ambassadors for the commission and whatever, highly talented young individuals. But you do see that there's this self selection thing going on, and I'm I'm guilty of that too.
Speaker 5:I was part of this, like, youth engagement track for the g 7. It was called the y 7. While I was standing there and sitting and looking around, and it's like, there's diversity. I guess I'm the diversity, but I'm a highly educated person who just happens to come from another country. If you look at everyone there, we're all the exact same profile.
Speaker 5:So in order not to just reach the usual suspects who were already excited about Europe and 100% will end up working for institutions or or being a European politician. Maybe let's concentrate on, like, more grassroots movements, working together with schools, creating things like, you know, the Europe week I had when I was, 12.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. Thank you. No. I think you have very good points, and I think I will continue in the same direction because I also have I remember one of the first international things I did was that my school had a twinning program with an Italian school, and we didn't actually visit each other. But we're sending out each other videos, which was very high-tech in, I think, late 19 nineties.
Speaker 4:So I think that is really important. And I think also, especially nowadays with I mean, digitalization has has made a world of difference. And then another thing which I'm very passionate about is that I believe Erasmus is a huge success. But I think also 99% of the people who have done Erasmus have a university degree. We need Erasmus for vocational training as well.
Speaker 4:It should be as natural if you are a carpenter from Denmark to go and look at how they built those lovely little huts in the Alps out of wood as it is for me who was a political science student to go. I think that's really important, and I think that's like sometimes when we say, oh, but what have you have done for us in this kind of, if I may say, the the
Speaker 5:the bubble? Yeah. We
Speaker 4:can see. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can say here. It is that there is actually yeah.
Speaker 4:These are very good opportunities. But if you don't come from a resourceful household, if you don't go to university that supports you all the way, then I think there's still a lot of obstacles, financial, administrational burden language, which we could look into. And I think that could really make a difference. That thing about that when we talk about free movement, it's not only about going on a nice holiday, but it was actually also those 2 months where I was, you know, in Italy or in, Bucharest or whatever. I think that that is something we really should focus on to make sure that it's not only for those who have an urge, themselves and and is in an environment that promotes free movement, but also that we give a little gentle push to show the opportunities for for more people.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Definitely. And, on this note, like, we were talking among the different youth organizations working on different issues because we are all working with youth, but, different topics. We do it digital. They do policy innovation and so on.
Speaker 2:And we were talking how when we work with the schools or with high schools, for example, that the teachers see the youth participation as a reward to good students, which, actually, this is not if you look into the policies, the the the inclusive inclusiveness also, but also from not just like, okay. The university students, they they also they also created the vocational education and other trainings and so on. But, I we I do agree that we we go there and, like, let's say, less teach more of the teachers and, and so on. And this is definitely something that, that we have to change. And it actually links to to my next question, and that would be, do you think that the European Parliament of policies that as they are now, actually address new challenges of young people and young people as a as a diverse group, not just, let's say, highly educated university students who want to live and study in, other con other countries?
Speaker 2:And, if so, do you think that there is, like, concrete mechanism that we can change and, that there is a concrete challenge because, for example, now we have AI arriving. So that we we wanted to address this as one of the the topics, and it actually brings totally new challenges to young people. Do you think that the policies and the institution and in this perspective, concretely, European Parliament as it is now address these challenges? And would you, as future parliamentarian, address it different way?
Speaker 5:When I think about it, like, obviously but first, I wanna talk about what you said about, you know, Europe being there for more than just the the university students because last week no. It was this week. Sorry. The campaign is just I don't remember. I was Today's Friday.
Speaker 5:Today's Friday. Okay. Good. It was this week. I was at a short, like, round table, and it was specifically for, young people in Antwerp.
Speaker 5:I live in Antwerp. It's a very big, diverse city. I think about 50% of no, 52% of all young people have, a background immigration background in Antwerp. So it's yeah. It has more nationalities than Amsterdam, than New York even.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, we're a super diverse city. I lived in Africa. That's a reason. I know. But, like where is it so there are there's a segregation going on, 100 percent, certainly, where I live now, but we're a super diverse city.
Speaker 5:And I'm sitting there in a round table with young people who come from, you know, neighborhoods that are hyper diapers that do a vocational background. And I'm sitting there having conversations with them, and they asked me a question about, you know, austerity measures that come from European level because their mother works in, like, care and health care, and they're wondering, like, if EU is forcing us to, you know, do all these austerity measures, how are we gonna pay for this? We have this really interesting discussion, and they ask me a question. And I explain to them what the stability and growth pact is. And I realize in all of their lives, no one ever felt the need to explain this to them because everyone felt that this is not really necessary for them to know so much about this.
Speaker 5:And that kind of, like, showed me, like, okay. This is wrong. If Europe is everywhere and we're all Europe and it's etcetera, then people, first of all, have to understand it and we have to do a better, we have to find a better way to educate also people who are not in universities. And do I think that the EP as it is now when you look at all of the new things that are gonna happen is ready to tackle that? I think it's it's also about competences.
Speaker 5:Like, for example, on a national regional level in Belgium, education is a regional competence. So it's not even federal. It's all Flemish. So when it comes to, like, education and stuff like that, we also have to live within our political reality. The Flemish nationalists who are in power really love keeping these competences for themselves.
Speaker 5:So every single time we talk about maybe having a European approach to these issues, the answer is straight up no. So from my political context, I think the EP could do a better job creating safeguards in the sense of, like, when we look at AI, like, big picture things, making sure that Europe does not just become a digital colony for the US where they just mine our information and it's going like, protect people there. I would love for the EU to have a bit more competencies in education and also go a bit further for us in Belgium. I'm I'm even scared to to to pro propose this. If you see the political, the way things are set up.
Speaker 5:So I think for the EP, it's more important to have, like, boundaries from, like, protecting European citizens from external factors, from American companies, from manipulation, polarization, etcetera, from outside. And when it comes to, like, more, like, with youth and AI, yeah, you kinda have to let the the national regional competencies also play their role. But for me, personally, I would love for the EU to get a bit more competences in that way and make that happen. Because, also, obviously, with Shanghai, everybody moves around, and it should it would be great if you would all have the same standards when it comes to using these technologies. But, politically, it's not really possible in
Speaker 2:my country. Mhmm. Or the ethics and the way that they set it up. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:At least,
Speaker 5:like, a little directive to, like, have, like, this is what we want. Please try to work within these boundaries. But yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 4:I think it is a bit of a paradox actually. Like, because in the EU in general, things move very slow. You know? If you see, if you take a legislative cycle before something, you know. But then every now and then, the commission tries to do something fast.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And then there is also the opposition saying, oh, but there was not a proper impact assessment, and we don't have full view of how this is gonna affect everyone. So how do you kind of bridge this kind of, like, when do you need to be fast and when do you need to go slow? And I'm not gonna sit here and say I have all the answers, but I think it's definitely something we need to to think about more because I think, on on AI, I mean, I think for most young people, they already touched base with it before and and made it part of the everyday use before there's even rules and regulation. I mean, I work in the parliament, and we just got guidelines on how to use it.
Speaker 4:But I think that's, you know yeah. That's that's at least, you know, 1 or 2 years too late. So it is really difficult to kind of and I think the most important thing is to acknowledge that we don't have all the answers maybe right now, but to keep up to to to speed all the time. And I think sometimes in the EU, we're like, okay. We did an act.
Speaker 4:It's gonna be implemented, and that's it. But I don't think that's how digitalization work. It really like, it evolves so fast, and I think young people are so fast at at getting on to to new trends, new tools, that it's not always that legislation can can follow-up. I think we also have to be realistic. I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, but only if the commission was a bit faster.
Speaker 4:No. I don't I don't think that's necessarily, feasible, but I think it's good to have that conversation.
Speaker 5:But on top of that, I think, like, going fast when it comes to digitalization can even, be negative because, I mean, I'm a young ish person too. I don't like I understand AI. It's a big thing and it could be very dangerous, but I'm not such a tech pessimist that my first reaction is let's ban everything. Because, like, I've been in debates where, like, some parties are like, oh, AI in education, let's ban it. Children are not learning anymore.
Speaker 5:They're just using chat gpt. And I'm like, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 5:Wait. If tools like chat gpt exist, shouldn't we evolve education so that we actually teach these children skills they actually can use? Because, obviously, looking stuff up in a book is not an active skill you need in 2024, let alone 2020, 30, 2050. Like, the they're where we're going is so different, and we don't know yet where we're going. But I think it's more interesting to look at, okay, how can we actually teach young people skills that they can use in this new digital world than to, like, directly think of banning?
Speaker 5:Because, also, I think there's this every time there's a new technology, there's always this fear and there's also this misunderstanding of AI. I mean, I'm a big fan of science fiction, but we're not we're not there. You know? We're not there at all. What they mostly do is very easy pattern recognition with the help of big data, and it could create negative effects.
Speaker 5:Like, I'm not negating any of that. But when it comes to, like, education and young people, I think a positive approach, teaching them how to deal with this, teaching them how to recognize, like, deep fake, fake news, giving them the tools they need to be citizens that are aware that these things are happening and can recognize these things instead of just thinking of banning stuff.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. The the actually, I mean, I'm I'm sitting behind the banner that, is saying bring humanity to digital life. This is what we do, in Connect, and it's, specifically because, the the tech, progress Mhmm. Which I fully agree should not be stopped or because, the cars were killing people. We did not stop the cars.
Speaker 2:The wheel was invented, and it created a lot of problems before. I don't know any other technological investment, but, there is is a need to for technology to take into the account some of the rules from the the real world. Let's, let's call it human rights, for example, and, actually, for the European Union to set some kind of the standards, that has to be followed. Like, technology cannot discriminate, for example, because, what what is happening now, the AI, is used for the for the CV screening, and people are getting denied because they inputted only men for the IT job or something like that. So definitely, the the discussion of the the ethics and, like, we, fought a lot.
Speaker 2:And then at some point, we've had human rights. I think that probably technology would be somewhere at that point where some kind of the ground rules should be set and ground rules that we have already probably are a good basis for the in Europe, what we have. It's a good basis, for for this, and especially with young people who are actually generation that it's transitioning to the society through different stages. As you said, education, the work, and so on, all impacted by the the digitalization. And I think Marco, was signalizing that he has the the follow-up.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to I
Speaker 3:have the last question. I mean, maybe I steal a question from you. Yes. Yesterday, I I had a drink with a friend, and, he said, oh, I need to run. I I will have one drink.
Speaker 3:I said, what's wrong? Because he never have one drink. He always had more drinks. He said, my my daughter will come. The his daughter is I said, what?
Speaker 3:We need to go for a school. I said, what are you gonna do in the school at at 7:30? He said, we have a briefing. I said, what kind of briefing? And the briefing is about the addiction to the phones.
Speaker 3:So, basically, they had the briefing from 7:30 to 10:30. I said, oh my god. 3 hours, to speak about what to do about his daughter, but also many others who are 6 plus hours on the phone, per day. And, so that's that's that's reality, I guess, with a lot of, young people. But if these young people are 6 hours over there, then there is a question of and mostly and then and then he said, his wife said, I forgot this part, but let her use the phone at the end because she likes music.
Speaker 3:And he said, okay. No problem. Then he checked the phone, he told me, and he checked the the log, what she was doing. And out of, I don't know, 3 o'clock in the morning, the music was 20 minutes, but the rest was social media. So my next question so it means that she was on social media out of 6 hours.
Speaker 3:Let's say 5 hours on social media. So for you as a candidate, as a politician, as somebody who is active in the policy, does it create easier, let's say, passage for to work, for example, with young people? We don't need to limit only to young people. Is it easier to communicate, or it's, how to say, trickier trickier way to communicate with your, with the people that are possibly voting for you and so on. Is it what is your experience on this?
Speaker 5:So on the platforms and social media. So I'm gonna be very honest. Like, as a politician, obviously, we're against the addictive nature of social media and want, you know, endless scrolling and stuff like that to get out of the algorithm. As a person, I am everyone was like, wow. 6 hours.
Speaker 5:I'm like, oh, okay. So Yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm not gonna say anything either.
Speaker 5:I'm not gonna say anything. Apparently, that's too much, on social media. But, when it comes to campaigning, it's been one of my main campaign tools. Not just because it's easy to get my message out, but it's also easy to interact. Like, I actually interact with my TikTok user, like, followers.
Speaker 5:They ask me questions because I'm my phone is glued to me, so I'm literally always on my phone, I can, like, respond really quickly. It it it it's easy in a way, and it's way more open to have, like, intercommunication because I can't be everywhere at once. I'm campaigning in all of Flanders. I can't be in every little village. I can't be at every little school.
Speaker 5:But young people find me and they have questions and and it's been actually very rewarding to be on TikTok and have people ask so fervently questions about climate and, like, oh, and how much c o two have we, like, reduced until now, and what's the difference between methane and c o two and all these other things. And having these conversations with young people directly, it's great. And I think the the thing is, yes, it's addictive. It has all these negative things, but let's not forget that social media also creates connection, certainly for young people who live in far flung places where they don't directly have a community right around them. Like, I was from a small tiny village in the Netherlands, where the only black family was no one who looked like me around me.
Speaker 5:And I know that apps, social media, having finding a community online, I know for a lot of queer youth, it's the same, was actually a moment of self discovery. So I feel like when we talk about these numbers about, oh, youth is addicted to their phones. They're spending 6 hours blah blah blah there. Well, they're also not playing outside anymore. That is just not something that happens as as much.
Speaker 5:This is their social space. This is their public space. So when we're having these debates and when I see things happening, like, in France where they want to ban, like, know that for a lot of
Speaker 3:For schools.
Speaker 4:For schools. For the schools
Speaker 5:or whatever, like, know for a lot of vulnerable youth, this is one of the only places where they get to be themselves authentically. So when we talk about this, let's not forget the human aspect, the connection aspect that also happens. Let's more concentrate on how can we make these interactions, these moments of humanity happen in a safe way without them being, you know, dragged into a hole where they start believing in flat earth theory or something like that? Like, how can we make those meaningful interaction happen in a safe way for young people? And that's what I would want to concentrate on.
Speaker 5:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Yeah. What to start? There was many, many good points. I think I don't think social media is bad, but I think everything in in moderation. I think one of the problem is that for for young kids or young people, they cannot go to their parents for guidance because parents don't understand how how it works.
Speaker 4:It's the same when we talk about AI in schools.
Speaker 3:For training.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. In a way. Because the same when we talk about AI in schools. But I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:But if the teacher doesn't use AI themselves, how are they ever yeah. And so so I think that that's really, a big challenge. I try to use social media. I made a principal decision not to be on TikTok because I don't trust the Chinese. But did you know actually that if you are on Instagram now, the default setting is that it's gonna show you less political content, because it believes that it's it's not interesting.
Speaker 4:So you have to make your conscious decision to go in and, you know, say, I actually do want to see what they call social content. So it's politics, but it's also, I guess, mental health, abortion rights, you know, all of these kind of things. And I think that is kind of problematic that at least we don't have a discussion about that, you know, Meta make this decision. And that, of course, makes it it hard. So, I mean, part of my campaigning is also being on the street, meeting people, having good conversations.
Speaker 4:We do canvassing in Denmark. We go door to door. It's a little bit, uncomfortable in the beginning. But if you kinda know where your voters are, it's actually really rewarding to have a face to face conversation with people. And I think it's also important for the for the turnout and for we talked about how many goes to vote that actually they see that you are a real person of flesh and bone, that wants to engage with them, that you actually care about.
Speaker 4:Okay. But what are your biggest worries in your everyday life? That is not just, you know, this top down, big structure, but it's actually, you know, face to face. So I think that social media is definitely a very important tool. But for me, it cannot, you know, fully substitute those conversations that you can have with ordinary people in everyday life.
Speaker 4:But with that being said, I'm definitely about, you know, finding peers that have the same interest, who have the same issues as you. I think that is super important.
Speaker 2:Yes. And, I mean, definitely, we we also had the discussions with the the the big tech and, the the way they're they're seeing what content is shown, what it's not, but also the rules they apply because we know that the service of the the big companies that we are were before, like, always in, United States, and they were setting the rules. And, actually, none of the social media follows the the the society standards that we apply in Europe, which is another big question, let's, let's say, because, we try to pride ourselves on, on human rights and the protection of the citizens. So, I have the last question that I ask you for, if possible, very short answer. And that's like, we see the we talk about digitalization a lot, about young people, future of young people, and, and so on.
Speaker 2:How do you see future of Europe due to all this technological advancement that is coming and that they are predicting it's coming, and they're predicting it's going to create this and that problems. How do you see future of Europe and future for young people in this, in this Europe of digitalization of future in, let's say, 20 years?
Speaker 5:Damn. 20 words.
Speaker 4:That's a good one. No. I think overall, we always have to look at it positive, but I think there will be as politicians and society, we need to be aware of those who will not be able to jump on the digital train. So we'll see that their job will disappear because it's taking over by AI. It doesn't mean that AI is bad as it's, you know, as you said, the car, you know, there's no more people driving horses.
Speaker 4:It's not bad. It just means that, you know, those people who are in the stable needs to learn something new. And I think there, like, really the whole lifelong learning is so important that, you know, if you have a degree and your degree gets outdated, if you have a vocation and it's not relevant anymore, Of course, we need to have society where you can train for something else. I think that's one of the most important task we stand. And if we manage to get that right, I'm sure that AI will be a blessing for all of it.
Speaker 4:It will do so much, you know, for our health care, for our research, for our everyday life. But we need to get that right so we don't lose those, I don't know, 20% behind.
Speaker 5:I definitely want to echo about, like, not losing people in this digital, revolution. But I also just would want to point out how, a lot of these changes that are happening are also kind of necessary, when you look at the climate crisis. I mean, we talk about twin transitions. Yeah. We really need, sort of digitalization, mobility as a service, blah blah blah as a service.
Speaker 5:And how are we gonna do that? Well, via apps, via, like, new business models. I just to, like, quickly talk about, for example, energy, we're expected by 2030, all of us to be prosumers, not just consumers, producers of renewable energy and consumers and selling and buying our renewable energy to each other in time, like, in real time. When I talked to Elia, which is, like, the electricity net, operator here in Belgium, he was describing this to me. I was like
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 5:Who is who who is prepared for that? So 100% Okay. Lifelong learning. We're gonna need this digitalization also to get to our green deal. So let's push as much as we can on educating our citizens and preparing our young people to be ready to, like, not just work in this new world, but thrive in it.
Speaker 5:So that's that.
Speaker 2:And this was actually for I consider it for the end and for everybody, and I wanted to thank you so much for, taking your time and, joining us. I'm I'm very sorry that I cannot hold in Belgium or Denmark because it will be very, very cool. We have new forces in in politics. Thank you for for joining us. Hope that you would stay for the
Speaker 4:the Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yes. I would ask everybody just to push the chair to the heights so that we can mingle, let's say. And, I don't know, Mark, could you have some closing words?
Speaker 3:No. I'm just happy that, as you are saying, we cannot leave in digital revolution or anyone behind. I'm happy we didn't lose anyone during the session. So thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Go vote between 6th 9th June for the European elections.