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Welcome to THE home of Grand Canyon hiking. If it happens below the rim—from short day hikes to Rim2Rims and beyond—you'll learn all the tips and tricks to have your safest and most memorable Grand Canyon experience.
Host Brian Speciale brings you stories of triumph, tragedy, and trail-won wisdom—told by first-timers, seasoned vets, and Canyon insiders alike.
But don't just take our word for it; here's what our listeners say:
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Whether you're planning Rim2Rim or just dreaming of hiking the Grand Canyon, this is the podcast that prepares you—mind, body, and spirit.
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I also bring along my massage gun.
Brian:Wait. On the trail?
Jackie:No. Not on the trail.
Brian:I was like, woah. Wait a second here.
Brian:You could set up shop at
Jackie:Manzanita and make some money. Right. I could.
Zeena:You're listening to the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show, Show, the voice of Grand Canyon Hiking, presented by Hiken. Hiking packs and gear built to help you hike your best hike. Here's your guide, Brian Special.
Brian:Oh, man. This one kinda gets me right in the feels, not because of the content of the interview you're about to hear, but really, because of where it was done. This interview was done in May 2025, on opening day, in fact, of the North Rim, 05/15/2025. And Zena, my wife, and I had driven up. We got a cabin for opening night.
Brian:I I remember being so, so excited just to get up to the canyon. You know? It's been closed for since October the year before, and you're always excited for the North Rim to open. It always opens on on May 15, closes on October 15. And so we were so excited driving up there.
Brian:I remember the drive. I remember, you know, getting to Marble Canyon. I remember Zena doing her first ever rim to rim to rim, which was basically just crossing the Navajo Bridge over the over Marble Canyon and the Colorado River twice. So that was cool. That was a great experience.
Brian:We had so much fun with that and made a video on that. And then we stopped in Jacob Lake on the way in, of course, to get some of those world famous cookies. I remember meeting up with a couple of people from our group here who were taking the Transcanyon shuttle, and they were stopping in Jacob Lake as well on their way to the North Rim. And I just remember the palpable excitement that really everyone had because, you know, this is a bucket list, once in a lifetime trip for so many people. I love feeding off that energy because, obviously, I mean, I've done it so many times, but it just never gets old.
Brian:And then we drive into the park or start driving into to the to the park, and you see the aspens and the the pastures, the meadows. You pass Kaibab Lodge. You see all the all the pines, and it's just another world. It's so it's just the most beautiful place and the most whimsical place. And here you are driving in for opening night, the first day that Grand Canyon Lodge has been open for the new season.
Brian:And and we get there, and we, you know, check-in, and we we have dinner in the in the dining room, and and just look out at the view over the canyon. And life was so, so good. Man, it just it was so good. It was no different than it had than it had ever been. You know?
Brian:Everything was as it should be. And then we went back to our our cabin and hung out for a while because I was gonna meet up with these four ladies who you're about to hear who were doing rim to rim. They'd started from South Kaibab and were coming up North Kaibab. I was gonna meet up with them and record a podcast. And sure enough, I caught wind that there was there was a medical situation near the upper part of North near the North Kaibab Trailhead not far below it.
Brian:A medical situation and, you know, put everything together after a while and realized that someone had had passed away on the the hike up. And had just really kinda gotten that that news, you know, kinda off the record behind the scenes. Had just found out about it. And I remember we were in our cabin, and I remember hearing the helicopter, hearing a helicopter roaring right overhead as it had clearly taken off from the area around the North Kaibab Trailhead and was headed back to the South Rim. But it's it's a little bit jarring to hear those helicopters on the North Rim because you just don't expect it.
Brian:Right? It's late in the afternoon. The sun's going down, and you got this helicopter roaring overhead. And I I remember just I I kinda knew what it what it meant that that that helicopter was going back with with a hiker's body, or it was going back empty. No good either either way.
Brian:But that gentleman who passed away was a 74 year old from Washington. He was a doctor. Everyone said that he was in just magnificent shape, and everything that he did was built on trying to live the longest possible life that he could. So I know that was a huge shock to his family and to his friends, doctor Dennis Smith of of Washington, 74 years old. So that was a sad start to the season on the North Rim, but those four ladies had gotten held up by by by that situation.
Brian:They'd been stopped farther down the trail from where they were trying to resuscitate this gentleman, and so that delayed them by quite a bit. So by the time we were able to connect, it was and it was around 09:00. You know, it was it was dark outside, and I, you know, cruised on down to the the lodge from my cabin and set up shop with our microphones and pulled some some of those leather couches together in the the great room in there where you have the incredible view of the canyon. I remember looking out. Obviously, it's dark, but you look across to the South Rim, and you see all the lights over there.
Brian:You see some some headlamps on on South Kaibab or Bright Angel across the way, and you just know that's another world away. Even though it's 12 miles away to the South Rim, it's it's another world away. And I just remember thinking that, and and then these four ladies showed up and sat down. And we did it basically in darkness, which is which seemed very fitting, but we were sitting there in the great room at Grand Canyon Lodge, and little did I know that that was going to be the when I walked out of there at 10:00 after finishing up with them, and the interview was over, and I packed up my stuff, and I was trying to get back to my room because I was gonna leave for a rim to rim to the other side. My wife is gonna drop me off at oh gosh.
Brian:I think it was one or two o'clock in the morning that I was gonna start because it was supposed to be a hot day the next day, and I was not gonna mess with the heat coming up South Kaibab. I I refuse to take those those chances anymore if I can help it. So we were gonna start early, but I remember just walking out of of the lodge and, you know, obviously not thinking anything of it and walking in the darkness back to back to my cabin. And little did I know that that was the I wish I would have turned around and and taken it all in and turned around and and looked back at the lodge because, obviously, I didn't know at the time, but that was gonna be the last time that I ever stepped foot in Grand Canyon Lodge or in one of those cabins. Then less than two months later, the Dragon Bravo fire would roar through, and it would all be gone.
Brian:So looking back at this interview, which was an important interview, I think, because there was just so much good information that these ladies gave about what to pack, where to stay, how to train, what to eat, and everything else for rim to rim. But of course, you can apply this to any hike in the Grand Canyon. So I think it's important information. I'm glad to be able to look back on it, but man, just a trip down memory lane a little bit, and a little bit emotional just to just to think about it all, because, you know, so many of us, that that North Rim Lodge, the Grand Canyon Lodge just has a place in our heart that will never go away, and it just it just still feels pretty raw that it, you know, was only six months ago. And it it man, it just feels like we should be gearing up again here in January for for the next rim to rim season.
Brian:But obviously, that's not gonna happen for for quite some time. So I missed the lodge, but I'm glad that my wife and I were able to make memories there, and I'm glad so many of you were able to make memories there as well, and they will rebuild. It will be back in some form at some point. We obviously don't know when that will be, but, man, that will be a day to celebrate. So anyhow, Jackie Kunkel, Kendra Yost, Carrie Repke, and Ashley Young.
Brian:By the end of this, we were calling them Jackie and the crazies. Super fun conversation done at the Grand Canyon Lodge on the North Rim last May on opening day of rim to rim season twenty twenty five
Jackie:that was cut oh so short.
Brian:This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude show powered by Hiken.
Jackie:On our way up, we were really happy that we were almost done with the hike because we had started very early in the morning, And we had gotten stopped by A volunteer. A a volunteer ranger just before Coconino Overlook. And they had told us that there was a medical emergency up a little farther and that we might just want to hang out here. So we had thought, well, let's go see how far we can go. And we got up to close to within, what, about 30 yards?
Jackie:30 yards. 30 yards of the medical emergency. And another volunteer came down and asked us if we would just stay there. All hikers were asked to stay kind of behind where we were. And what we had heard was that really sad.
Jackie:A gentleman we don't know the circumstances, but what had trickled down was that a gentleman had cardiac arrest, and, they were working to revive him. And we had seen a helicopter come in. We had seen family up there at the point where they were working on them because we were about 30 yards away.
Speaker 5:They had a tarp for privacy. Yes. They had a tarp.
Brian:They had to talk to cover the scene and
Speaker 5:have everything working cover the scene so we couldn't see what was going on for privacy and respect.
Jackie:Yeah. So we we waited, and it was good probably hour and twenty minutes until we were we were then told
Speaker 5:Well, can we back up a
Jackie:little bit? Yeah. Go ahead.
Speaker 5:So they did the AED fibrillator, that they had used that on him about four times. And then there were several people there trying to perform CPR on him as well. I don't know how long after that we actually saw an IV. And so we thought that was a good sign. Okay.
Speaker 5:Like, you know, he's he's revived. They are giving him fluids, so that's gotta be good. And then I wanna say it was probably forty five minutes, fifty minutes after that is when one of the volunteers came down to us and said, you know, we're going to have you guys start coming up single file, just walk by. And they were very nice and respectful about it. And so when, we got in single file line and we started walking up, and I I necessarily didn't really wanna look over.
Speaker 5:I mean, I was curious, but I just out of respect. But it was hard not to notice that when you walked up that this gentleman was laying on a tarp and then a tarp was covering him, and you couldn't see any movement. Like, it was just
Jackie:no Yeah. They had his his body covered. Yeah. We and yeah. The family was there.
Jackie:We and when we we surfaced out at the trailhead, there was an ambulance and some medics there speaking with some people. So we can only assume the worst had happened. Yeah. The helicopter had left.
Speaker 5:A helicopter had come in. And then he the hell I mean, we were like, well, okay. If the helicopter's here, then that's gotta be a good sign. But then, like, the helicopter never It never showed. Like, they never came and got him.
Jackie:So, I mean, our assumption was obviously the worst. Everybody was very, very respectful, Not very a terrific end of the day for anybody as
Speaker 5:mean, no one said one word when they walked by. No.
Brian:I
Speaker 5:mean, we were probably one of the first ones to walk by, but you could just tell everybody. It was just very quiet, respectful, paying It's like they were paying their respects to the family and
Brian:Well, mean, this was this was just a few hours ago. Right? You guys obviously, your hike was delayed and, you know, you had to get out of there and get back to the Grand Canyon Lodge finally, take your shower, have dinner. So it's been a few hours now. But, I mean, is any of this sinking in?
Brian:I mean, how are you guys how are you handling it? I mean, are you okay? That's a that's a traumatic thing to see.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Actually, when, we got back to the cars and we came back to the lodge, I actually thought, I don't think I wanna do this again.
Brian:I
Speaker 6:I really thought, well, I don't wanna chance it. And, and we've got plans to come back next year. And I thought, is this something that I'm gonna continue doing? It was just it was yeah. It was unreal.
Speaker 6:Like, what we what we just witnessed and what we just saw, that could happen to any of us.
Jackie:Yeah.
Speaker 7:One thing too is when we were talking to the rangers and they were, of course, saying we're sorry. You know? We gotta hold you up. But we're everybody would say, it's okay. You know?
Speaker 7:We want the best for whatever happening to the the person. Mhmm. And so, really, our hearts go out to the family.
Brian:Of course. I'm sorry I'm sorry that that that you guys had to go through that too. Just just a sad situation all the way around. Obviously, just being a few hours removed, there's nothing there's nothing official yet that any anybody's heard, but you you guys were obviously there and saw and we know what happened. And hopefully by the time this podcast comes out, we have some more details on exactly what happened.
Brian:The one thing I did here is that NPS, because it was, you know, it was point three miles down the trail, search and rescue was able to get to him, I think, within fifteen minutes.
Speaker 6:And
Brian:so and they got the AED on him Mhmm. And did everything that they could. So, know, heroic effort by them as as always. They have to deal with these situations, you know, almost on a daily basis, not necessarily to this level with this outcome, but, you know, the NPS and the search and rescue teams deserve our our gratitude as well. But, man, what a what an awful way to end a hike, you know?
Brian:And, of course, it's not about you guys. It's about this gentleman and and his family. But, wow. Our our thoughts of of course go out to him and it's just another reminder of the the dangers of hiking in the canyon no matter no matter what happened to him. But let's transition a little bit here and because this was this is this is a day of celebration.
Brian:This is supposed to be a time when when you you're celebrating. This is something that that you guys have worked towards for so long now. And, you know, I know I know you did it you did it already last September?
Jackie:So Carrie Carrie and I did it in September. Right.
Brian:And we had you on the podcast, and you were fantastic. And
Jackie:Ken Ken, thank you.
Brian:Wasn't she, guys? Absolutely.
Jackie:And Ken Kendra did it in May with it was in one year. She did it with some of her other friends. And Ashley, you did it. 2017.
Speaker 5:'20 I did North to South.
Brian:But the first time, all four of you together?
Brian:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Brian:So, what how did this all come together with the four of you finally saying, you know what? Let's do this, girls. Of course, it's Jack. Everyone's pointing at Jack. You're the ringleader here.
Jackie:Yes. I was the instigator. And I think, well, I I had instigated it in September on the way the way to the canyon with Carrie and our niece, Becky, who did it with us in September. Said, I just want you to know. I have rest those reservations in
Brian:I remember in May.
Jackie:As soon as we were done with the hike, they're like, okay. We're in. And unfortunately, Becky couldn't do it this year, which is why Ashley came with us and Kendra's like, I'm in. So that's how we kinda all, you know, got to and May, I wanna tell you what, May is a we had fantastic weather today. Yeah.
Jackie:May was much cooler than September.
Brian:Yeah. You got a much better chance at least of it being cooler. Mhmm. And this this early in the season. It's gonna be in the nineties tomorrow in South Kaibab when I go when I when I head over there.
Jackie:Yeah. I don't ever
Brian:no. Look Not looking forward to that. Going south to north is definitely the way to do it, especially this season. But you guys doing this as a group with with four of you, how was it with just, you know, the whole accountability thing as you prepared for it? What were you doing to prepare?
Brian:Because I see your Facebook posts. You're in the you're in our in our Facebook group, and you guys are always updating everyone, which is fabulous and so helpful. What were you doing to train and hold each other accountable to what you had coming up?
Jackie:Well, so the first thing I had was I had my husband who's sitting over
Brian:Rod. Rod. Let's go.
Jackie:Had The cookie man. The cookie man. And he did bring us cookies today.
Brian:Of course he did. He's got a role.
Brian:He knows Yes.
Jackie:He I had him redo the spreadsheet, and he actually did yes. This spreadsheet. And he actually what he did was he added in, which was really cool for us to kind of see, he added in you know how last year I wrote the times that we arrived at each place?
Brian:Yeah. I remember.
Jackie:He made that an actual column so we could have it compare our time this year to our time in September. Yeah. So that was kind of nice to have.
Brian:Kinda gamify it a little bit.
Jackie:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was one thing. But we did we did I did hold the girls to Zoom calls like I did.
Jackie:Right?
Brian:So You guys all did you live in different places?
Speaker 5:Mesa.
Brian:Okay. I'll live in Phoenix, the Phoenix area. Okay. What do you what did you guys think was the most effective and we say this. This is a rapid reaction.
Brian:You just came out. You don't know how sore you're gonna be yet. But surely, are things that happen on the hike that you're like, wow. I'm glad I did that to train for. What do think were the best I training methods that you guys know that
Speaker 5:you did. Unless they wanna go. Let them go.
Speaker 7:Well, would say all of us are are active. All of us go to the gym. All of us stay strong. That's the most
Brian:important thing by far.
Speaker 7:Carrie and Ashley are runners. Jackie definitely does lots of hiking. I like to bike and hike. So we're all active, but to to bump it up to Grand Canyon, we actually, you know, have to do more distance and more elevation because we don't get that usually in just our daily hikes and and workouts. So that's pretty much what we did, keeping distance, keeping it longer, and then doing more elevation.
Brian:Like, much distance are we talking about and, like, how often?
Speaker 7:We usually try well, Jack, you probably gets out a little more than I do. I usually once a week. I think our longest one was 17 miles in And South then our last hike, went to Mount Wrightson and did that before taper. Tucson?
Brian:Mount Wrightson? Yeah.
Jackie:Yeah. Just South
Speaker 7:of Tucson. Yeah.
Jackie:But we all one of the other things in in addition to what Kendra's saying, one of the other things that we all do is we all go, we all have some regular workout too other than like they run. I mean, guys can speak for yourselves of what you do. But I mean, we do, you know, we all lift weights. We all do that. So keeping our muscles strong.
Jackie:I mean, I mean, hiking and running are, you know, one thing, but you still got to work your whole body. And so that we do, I do about five times a week. And my husband and I, we walk every morning, every morning. If we're not hiking, we walk every morning. So we walk anywhere from like three to five, maybe six miles depending.
Jackie:And we don't just walk, we walk fast. So we're always on our feet.
Brian:So when you have those regular routines. Yep. Right? It's building that foundational strength. Yep.
Brian:And so training and ramping yourself up for something like the Canyon, I assume that just makes it easier.
Brian:Yeah.
Jackie:Well, Kat Ashley's got something. She knows she wants to talk.
Brian:Let's go, Ashley.
Brian:Okay. Yeah. Go on. Listening.
Speaker 5:Put me on the spot, Jackie.
Brian:What could this be?
Speaker 5:Well
Brian:We're talking about training.
Speaker 5:I know. Right? So, well, I run three days a week. Mhmm. And then on top of that, I actually got a personal trainer.
Speaker 5:And I said, hey, I'm training for the Grand Canyon. So I would take my pack to my training sessions with me at 04:15 in the morning twice a week. So that and then the other days, would run. But anyway, so I'd go to my training session. I'd wear my pack with 20 pound weights in it.
Speaker 5:And then he would have me do specific exercises. Like I would do box jumps. Or I would do step up, step down, step
Jackie:up With
Brian:the weight.
Speaker 5:With the weight. With my pack on with the 20 pounds in it. And then on my own, would go to the gym like in the evening, maybe that same day or the next day. And I would do the StairMaster, like on a level six. And then I'd wear my pack with the weights for like forty five minutes.
Speaker 5:And then maybe the next day, I would do like thirty minutes and 10 weights or 10 pound weights. And hands down, I felt so prepared because I have short legs and there are quite tall steps. Oh, there And doing those box jumps or step up, step down, step up, like, really helped my hip mobility and also helped me mentally because I could see what was coming and knowing, like, okay, I trained for this. I did like, I can do this. And so I would pep self, like pep talk myself up.
Speaker 5:But then I'd also say, what would Brandon do? Because he was my trainer.
Brian:Shut up, Brandon.
Speaker 5:Yeah. But, yeah, that's what I would do is run three times a week and then do training sessions and then do the StairMaster, but I would always do it like with the pack on my back with either 20 pounds or 10 pounds.
Brian:So StairMaster and the step ups and step downs, that's what you think was the key today?
Speaker 5:Oh, 100%. And like I did it for about an hour. So, you know, my sessions and stuff. And then when I did the StairMaster, would be like forty five minutes or half an hour.
Brian:And everybody talks about doing those kind of things. Yeah. And they they they talk about the steps. And if they've never been at the Grand Canyon before, they probably think we're talking about going up with the steps.
Jackie:Right.
Brian:But those steps will take it out of you when you're going down them. How much did that, did those exercises help with the going down part?
Speaker 5:Oh, so, he would also have me, like, even do sideways stepping down from the box jumps. Yeah, that's So, to help my knees. Yeah. And, to help my hips. So, it was interesting because there were a lot of times we were going down steps and we were going sideways today just to protect our knees and our hips.
Speaker 5:So, that was So,
Brian:you're already used to doing that.
Speaker 5:Right. Right. I was already
Speaker 7:used That's to doing
Brian:great tip.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. So, it was very helpful to step up, step down, but then also sideways.
Brian:With poles too?
Speaker 5:No. I did not use You didn't use poles? No. I used poles during the hike, but not during my training.
Brian:Oh, sure. Not during the Yeah. Going down.
Speaker 5:During the hike, yes.
Brian:So, it helped to go down sideways and using the poles to kind of take some more weight on it.
Speaker 5:It protected my knees too.
Jackie:We we used the phrase today, plant and pivot.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Plant
Jackie:and Plant the poles, pivot, and then step
Brian:up front. Going down for you with the headlights on, the headlamps on, Yes. Plant and pivot, girls. Plant. Yes.
Brian:A mantra.
Speaker 5:Yeah. It was definitely and encouraging each other too definitely helped. Yeah. Like, being each other's cheerleader.
Brian:Yeah. Were you guys able to so you come up here today today to do South Kaibab to North Kaibab. You started at 02:07AM because I was following you
Brian:on your common end reach.
Brian:02:07 You weren't at 02:07. No. I wasn't. But I I saw that you started. Saw that you started.
Brian:And then I thought, man, I'm just waking up here in Phoenix. I gotta get ready. Then we gotta drive, take our time, get into the North Rim, and they're still gonna be hiking. Yeah. That just shows you how long of a day it is.
Brian:Yes. It actually it actually is. But you started at 02:07. Were you guys able to stay together for the most part? Was there
Jackie:a plan beforehand?
Brian:Did guys talk about it?
Jackie:So you guys can chime in on But my mantra when I hike, and this goes back to May 2020 when I was out for a hike with my husband and Carrie and another friend of ours. And it's on a trail that we had done like a million times or a good amount of time. And I was a half mile from the parking lot, and I stepped on a rock wrong, and I broke my ankle, twisted it and broke my ankle. And so ever since then, I'm like, never hike alone. Never hike alone.
Jackie:Yeah. You know, just don't ever hike alone. So I feel like having friends with you and around you, and even if you're I don't I don't like to be, like, too far in front or too far behind because you need to be you need to be conscious of what the others are doing. I I'm like no hiker left behind. That's what I feel like.
Brian:Okay. So you guys did that was start when you guys started today, that was the plan that you were you're sticking together no matter what.
Jackie:Oh, sure. What do you think, Carrie?
Speaker 6:No. I agree. And so what we did was we had an order. What what did you call it? Ashley, 123Crazy1Crazy2Crazy3Crazy4.
Jackie:So we there
Speaker 6:was an order, and so we'd switched the order up, but we always made sure that we stuck together, and we kept encouraging Yes. Each other to get We did hallucinate at times. But, yes, we we encouraged A little delusional. One another Yeah. To keep going forward.
Speaker 6:It works.
Brian:So so seriously, someone was in the crazy one, and you guys just kept switching positions.
Speaker 6:Switch positions.
Brian:We were crazy. That's a great plan. Yeah. And did that just happen like organically?
Jackie:Yes. Yes. Pretty much. Yes. We're all pretty good friends.
Brian:So It's beautiful.
Jackie:Yeah. It did happen pretty It did.
Brian:So you start at two 02:07. Yeah. The sun's probably coming up when? Did you get down below Skeleton maybe?
Jackie:It came up yeah. It was around Skeleton, I think. Not quite. We were we were it was up at tip-off.
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Brian:That can be tough hike hiking in the dark for that long. It it can't it gets it gets old looking down at the artificial light. It gets old if you've been in the canyon Yes. Knowing what you're missing with the views. Right?
Jackie:Oh, I got some great night shots, though.
Brian:Oh. Then How great can they be? Come on.
Jackie:They were beautiful. They were beautiful. The moon was out.
Brian:Oh, now that's beautiful.
Jackie:And when we were in September, it was we had no moon, so we had just had stars. Just stars. It was absolutely gorgeous. And the one thing that all four of us remarked about is how many people were on the trail today. Even at 02:00?
Jackie:Oh my Really? Taxi driver All runners. Yeah. Taxi driver told us we were not the first people he picked up.
Brian:No kidding.
Jackie:He picked us up at, what, ten of two, something like that. And he said that there was people that he picked up at 11:30. Don't know. I think
Speaker 7:we were his fourth pickup.
Jackie:Fourth pickup. Mhmm. And then there were so many people that were coming. We did I mean, it was like, at one point, you could just see this trail of lights.
Brian:The lights.
Brian:That is pretty cool.
Jackie:It was and we remarked that, like, in September, we saw three people in the dark, wasn't it? That they
Speaker 6:In September, yeah. There was three people we saw. That was it. That was it.
Brian:And this time, everyone was going one way. Doubt there
Jackie:was anybody coming back
Brian:up. Right?
Jackie:Well, there were people coming back up as it got light. From Phantom. Yeah.
Speaker 6:From Phantom. Later on.
Jackie:But even then, there was in coming coming down today, dark and light. I mean What's that like? A lot of people.
Brian:What was that like after the after the darkness, seeing the the light touch the canyon
Jackie:for the first time?
Brian:What what were you guys saying to each other?
Speaker 7:Spectacular colors. Yeah. It's just amazing. You know? You have to see it in person.
Brian:It's like this is why we're doing it.
Speaker 7:Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 5:I don't think pictures do it justice. Never. It never does.
Brian:Never.
Speaker 5:Like to see it with your eye, behold it with your own eye is like it's like God just got a paintbrush and just did His work. I mean, it's amazing. You have to see it for yourself.
Brian:Absolutely. Yeah. And what what was the the did you guys have a pace that you were trying to maintain? Was there a time goal at all? You know, having all done it before, guys had to have a pretty good idea of what you were shooting for.
Jackie:I think I mean, for me and I I don't wanna speak for these guys, but they they can they can tell you what they think. For me, hiking for me is more about the journey and enjoying the surroundings. I don't necessarily need to set a pace. I mean, are there are some things, like I knew that, like, in in September especially when it was warm, I knew we needed to be at Phantom by a certain time and out because
Brian:because of the heat.
Jackie:It was gonna get hot. Yeah. And so, I mean, those were the kind of goals we had then. And today, it wasn't as much of that. All I said was, I don't want to be hiking out in the dark.
Brian:You almost made it.
Jackie:Yeah. Well,
Brian:we I mean, we had help, unfortunate help.
Jackie:Got out before it got dark today.
Brian:So what time did you what was the total time at the end of the day?
Jackie:So I look. So our total if we had gotten out when we thought we were going to get out, it would have been actually fifteen minutes sooner than we had gotten out last year. So it would have been total time on trail would have been would have been fifteen hours and, like, ten minutes.
Brian:Which is pretty much what you were expecting
Jackie:when you started. And our hiking time our hiking time today now because that fifteen hours includes, you know, when every stop you take and all that. Our total hiking time was fourteen hours and eight minutes so that we were actually moving.
Brian:Here's what I wanna know, Jackie, and the rest of you as well. This is this is an important topic because Jackie introduced us all to the world a payday last year.
Jackie:Oh, yes.
Brian:Oh. Right?
Brian:So tell us tell us your best fueling tips. I wanna hear this from all of you guys. This is important. Everyone always wants to know what do I need to pack? What should I leave at home?
Brian:Payday was introduced to us last year. What do you got for us this year?
Jackie:Okay. You want to start with me or
Brian:We can start with the ring leader.
Jackie:Okay.
Brian:Yes.
Jackie:So this year, I I brought my paydays, and I ate my I ate the paydays. Peanut butter
Speaker 5:She did offer to share them.
Jackie:And they did offer to share them, yes. I brought with me we have gotten now into this little ritual of making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at night because Carrie brings the bread, the peanut butter and jelly, and we make that. And that's usually our breakfast, which I will can I digress just a minute? Of course.
Brian:That's all we do here.
Jackie:And then then we'll get back into the food thing. So speaking of breakfast, so we we got up we had to get up early. Right?
Brian:Yes.
Jackie:So last night, the four of us well, actually, the six of us, we all we were all staying in Toussaint, and we went to bed. I was in bed at 07:30 thinking, I'm going to get a good solid five hours of sleep, right? No such luck. I got one hour of sleep because, unbeknownst to me, it was happening down the hallway too. There were people running up and down the hallway, slamming the doors and banging on things.
Jackie:And I'm like, I was just beside myself. And Ashley termed me what did you term me? You called me the
Speaker 5:Oh, Oscar the Grouch.
Jackie:Oscar the Grouch. Yeah. When when she saw me this morning, I was very grouchy. I said, I had one hour of sleep.
Brian:And now I gotta go hike all the way across the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 5:Yeah. But she's well, maybe I'll maybe I won't
Brian:say that. Oh, no. Say it.
Brian:You already said it?
Speaker 5:The f bomb. Like three times. Jackie,
Brian:how dare you? We never say that
Jackie:around I usually. But, you know, it was one of those things grouchy. Yeah. I was very grouchy.
Brian:Understandable.
Jackie:And, anyway, so, my my breakfast so I you know, before we go hiking, I wanna have something in my stomach. So I'm like, oh god. I can't. I can't. And I was looking at the banana that I had because a banana I usually eat a banana before I work out.
Jackie:And I had to muscle that thing down, and I was like, this is not going well. And the and the peanut butter and jelly came with me. I ended up finishing it, and I cut it into four pieces because I thought, there's no way I'm getting this down anytime soon. But I did. So we had peanut butter and jelly.
Jackie:And then I I brought I brought beef jerky, mango habanero. Really good. Get it at Costco Costco, really good. I upped I had a lot of carbohydrates, but I upped my protein this time. So I had that.
Jackie:And Carrie and I had a really good sandwich. We stopped in Flagstaff on the way up, and we didn't know we could order the sandwiches in halves. And we ordered whole sandwiches. We couldn't eat the whole sandwich. So I said, oh, we should take the other half and bring them with us.
Jackie:So we each had a sit we each had our lunch at 7AM this morning at Phantom Ranch.
Brian:Nice. Nice.
Brian:What did you get what did you guys find out work work for you?
Speaker 5:Well, I would definitely say beef jerky because that's the salty. And then I brought Sour Patch Kids watermelon flavor This
Brian:is cool.
Speaker 5:For sugar and then bread. Bread. Yes. But, I would definitely say something sweet and something salty and electrolytes.
Brian:Do you think it was effective today?
Jackie:Oh. That strategy?
Speaker 5:100%. And I normally like can bloat pretty easily and I didn't feel bloated at all the entire time. And I definitely filled So, I had my bladder in my pack, but I also had a second, like like, little water bottle on the side of my, pack. So, like, when we stopped at stations that had water, I would fill up my water bottle with electrolytes and drink that before we would take off again. And then I would have my water in my pack in between, you know, water stations.
Speaker 5:But I would definitely say something sweet, something salty, and electrolytes for sure.
Brian:Did you guys plan your stops? Is it was that part of, like, the spreadsheet? Like, we're stopping here and
Jackie:Yeah. I think so. I mean Well, just did
Speaker 5:the water where it was gonna be
Jackie:turned on or not gonna be turned off. Interestingly enough, so, yeah, I looked at the water last night because, you know, how they the park service tells you where the water's turned on. And it said it was just Phantom Ranch and Manzanita, but it was turned on everywhere. Really? Yeah.
Jackie:It was.
Brian:Wait. Was it on a two pi tunnel?
Jackie:Yep. And it was on it was on at Cottonwood as well.
Brian:But not at the North Kaibab Trailhead?
Jackie:No. Well, you guys wouldn't need But it the guy the guys
Brian:Tupai was on. That's the most unreliable of all of them.
Jackie:Yeah. Rod Rod and Tom came down with water bottles, we ended up not needing them. So they gave them to some of the hikers that were coming through.
Brian:Oh, nice.
Jackie:So, yeah. So some of the the plan stops, we always stopped where there was a bathroom always. So that's always a plan stop. But
Brian:Always important to check the Yes. Check the water the day of because as you guys find out, it can change even even the day of. So Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Brian:Let's keep going down the line. What are the the best fueling options you guys came up with today?
Speaker 6:For me, it's gonna be peanut butter and jelly.
Brian:Before the hike and on the trail?
Speaker 6:Yes. I'm a peanut butter junkie. Yeah. Especially Justin's. Justin's.
Speaker 6:Throw it out there. Fair enough. Yeah. I'd say what Ashley was saying, that the salt, I I definitely needed and something sweet. But the electrolytes, I think, for me, helped a lot with the fluids.
Speaker 6:Just the electrolytes were so important. But I'll go back to peanut
Brian:butter. Peanut butter.
Speaker 6:Peanut butter.
Jackie:We had and, you know, we had the cookies I made too.
Speaker 7:Oh, cookies.
Jackie:I made chocolate covered raisin oatmeal.
Brian:But it sounds like she should have made peanut butter cookies. Yeah.
Jackie:She didn't have any problem eating those cookies either.
Brian:Okay.
Speaker 7:Well, I started the day with Carrie's peanut butter and jelly sandwich. She brought bread and jelly and peanut butter. So we made those last night. So that was what our breakfast was. Jackie bought bananas.
Speaker 7:So I had to force myself to eat that at 01:00 tonight and also started with electrolytes. And so I had the two little packs, pockets on my pack. One had peanut butter pretzels, the other had, like, the Bob's Red Mill bars. Because what I do is I cut them in half so I know each of them is, like, a 100 calories. And I try to time it, so every thirty minutes I'm usually having at least a 100 calories.
Speaker 7:So every 30 and then an hour so I'm keeping my glycogen stores going. And the same thing with Ashley, I have an extra bottle so when we stop I'll have electrolytes plus salt tabs as we go.
Zeena:So much of the Grand Canyon advice you'll find online is loud, confusing, and just flat out wrong. That's why Hike Club Grand Canyon exists on Facebook. It's a judgment free hiking community where hikers help hikers and where you can have direct access to Brian, coach Arne, guests from this show. You want real answers so you can hike the canyon with confidence. This is where you belong.
Zeena:Search for Hike Club Grand Canyon on Facebook and join our conversation today.
Brian:And everybody's happy with the way it turned out.
Jackie:Yeah. We were all on top of one another with the salt. Salt sticks and the electrolytes. We were making sure we were all drinking them and or eat or sucking on the salt sticks.
Speaker 5:I had electrolyte salts like in a tube, so I would just kind of take a little shot of that and then drink my water and that really helped.
Brian:Man, you guys are impressive. I hope everyone's listening to this because the nutrition hydration thing is so hard for everyone to dial in. It's always changing, but but you guys have experience in the canyon, so it's really cool that that you guys seem to have really figured out what works for you. And what works for one might not work for the other. It's important to to remember that.
Brian:But you guys had a strategy and it sounds like it it worked and I'm gonna be going back and listening to this and taking notes just like I did. I got some paydays in my in my pack for tomorrow morning,
Jackie:That's awesome. Yeah. And, you got a couple cookies too.
Brian:And, a couple cookies that you brought for me. I appreciate that. And, maybe, you know, I'll be doing that peanut butter and jelly thing here pretty pretty soon too. So, very good. Well, it's just a few hours removed.
Brian:So, you guys all have Canyon experience as well. So, how do you feel now physically compared to how you might have felt the first time? Do you think you you think you got away with it? You think you got you got through it without having too much of a chance of having the the famous Canyon Shuffle tomorrow morning?
Jackie:Well, I can say for myself, as soon as well, we what we one of the things that we actually did at every stop is we stretched. We were we were really good about diligent about stretching and even massaging like, doctor Arne says. You know? He he, said that he was saying something about putting your thumb in your calves and your feet, and so I was doing that. And we were stretching a lot.
Jackie:So that, I think, will help in the recovery. And then I also bring along with me my massage gun and a foam roller. So
Brian:Wait. On the trail?
Jackie:No. Not on the trail. Okay.
Brian:I was like, woah. Wait a second here.
Brian:You could set up shop at
Jackie:Manzanita and make some money. Right? I could. You could. I could.
Jackie:No. I when we got back to the room, I used that, you know, I we had stretched. Well, actually, while we were waiting to to leave the canyon for that hour and twenty. We we we stretched quite a bit while we were there. And then when we got out, I got back to the room and I I used the massage gun and and I put my legs up on the wall, laid on the bed and put my legs up on the wall.
Jackie:So I think that is I was a little more prepared this time than last time.
Brian:I'm really fascinated by the whole stretching thing, that you guys actually had the discipline and took the time to do something like that. And you so that was regularly scheduled, like, intervals that you did that?
Jackie:I mean, was when we stopped. Right?
Speaker 5:Yeah. We stopped and we were like, oh, we should stretch. And so then the first stop well, first stop, we didn't need to. But I think it was Phantom Ranch Phantom. Where we were like, let's stretch.
Speaker 5:Because we knew we would be there a little bit for lunch, like, about a half an hour.
Brian:And just for a minute or two?
Brian:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. We stretched, and then we decided just to stretch from that point on. And he made
Jackie:I was doing hamstring. I was eating my sandwich and doing hamstring stretches.
Brian:Love it.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So Multitasking.
Brian:Yeah. That is that's very efficient.
Speaker 6:I I would say that at every potty break is when we stretched. Let's be honest.
Jackie:Yeah. That's true.
Speaker 5:Well, that was kinda stretching too using the potty.
Brian:Right. Because you have
Speaker 6:to climb up stairs every time you go to use them.
Jackie:Yes. You have to that's right. You have to go.
Brian:You know, the this is so interesting to listen to. And the difference between a group of women hiking and a group of men hiking. I mean, I'm telling you right now, if I'm hiking with three dudes, we're not worried about the the bathroom stops and definitely not worried about stretching. But I think it goes to show you that the women are the females are the smarter sex. It's just let's just face it because this just makes sense.
Jackie:We're just not gonna disagree with you on that, Brian.
Brian:I mean, am outnumbered here, but but I do I do mean that because that's just you guys were intentional about the things that you did. Mhmm. You took everything seriously, Right down to stretching during bathroom breaks. That that is impressive, and I think there's a lot that well, what was that? What I what I missed there?
Brian:No. I heard something from the
Speaker 6:No. You're right on. No. You're right on.
Brian:Right on. Okay. Okay.
Jackie:No. I mean, you you I think you have to be if you wanna recover appropriately.
Brian:And It's not only about having a great hike, but the recovery after. If you do everything right, that's gonna
Brian:be And
Jackie:and, you know, I mean, we we the the other nice thing about that, we did meet a lot of really nice people today. The camaraderie on not just the Grand Canyon hike, but any hike. You meet some really great people when you're out there hiking. You really do. You just really do.
Jackie:We were chatting with a lot of different people, and we would see them you know, we'd be leapfrogging one another, and, you know, we'd chitchat. We'd take pictures for them. They'd take pictures for us, that kind of thing. And and, yes, some people were stretching other than us too, and there were some guys that were stretching. Just saying.
Brian:Yeah. Okay. Good. Good to hear. Good to hear.
Brian:I'm gonna be inspired by that in a couple hours here when I when I hit the trail to head back to the South Rim. Guys, this has been amazing sitting here with you in the in the Grand Canyon Lodge on opening night. We can look back across the canyon right now and see all the lights on the on the South Rim. It's another world up here. I just, god, isn't it just amazing?
Brian:And you guys get to finally get to bed Okay. And wake up tomorrow tomorrow, and I assume, breakfast, and then you're out of here or what?
Jackie:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're gonna do breakfast, and then we're gonna take our time driving, hit a couple places on the way back, and then we're gonna go to we're gonna go to the South and and probably walk around a little bit, and then go to we're back in Tsaiyan, and we're staying at the hotel we stayed at, and we're gonna get in the hot tub.
Brian:Let's go.
Jackie:Because that's good recovery too. This
Brian:is cool. It's such a cool story. You guys are taking you're just taking your time. This is an entire experience and it continues tomorrow and it continues until you're out of here two days from now. Yep.
Brian:Let's man, this is inspiring stuff. So grateful for you guys taking the time because I know it has been a a long day in more ways than one. I know you're ready to to get to bed, but the insight that you've shared here today with with our community is so appreciated because I know there were so many takeaways that people are gonna have from this. Just last last thing before we go, is Jackie and the crazies coming back for for another round together now that you guys have all done it together? Is this gonna become a regular thing now that you've done it together?
Brian:Yeah. Think we
Speaker 5:should have t shirts made now that you just have
Brian:Jackie and the crazy. Jackie and the crazy.
Brian:Yes. Let's go. Yes.
Jackie:You're funny. She was but she she was the so just I gotta tell you, the one girl that took pictures for us down at Phantom Ranch, she was hysterical. She took a bunch of pictures for us under the Phantom Ranch welcome you sign. And what did she say? She said, who's first, she wanted to to know, who's the instigator?
Jackie:And everybody pointed to me.
Brian:Chief Crazy.
Jackie:And then who was The fastest. Who was the fastest? And we all pointed to Carrie, I think.
Brian:And
Jackie:then who's the slowest? We pointed to Kendra. And then who was the funniest? And we pointed to Ashley.
Brian:Ashley. Ashley. Ashley.
Brian:Everyone has a role. Yes.
Jackie:So it was good.
Brian:Everyone has a role under the crazy umbrella.
Jackie:Alright. And that's why it works together.
Brian:We work.
Brian:You guys do work. I wanna see you back. Jackie and the crazies with the shirts next time. Alright? Thank you, guys.
Jackie:Thanks, Brian.
Speaker 6:Thank you.
Speaker 5:It was nice to meet you.
Brian:Likewise. They were they were great, weren't they? That's the second time that we've had Jackie, on the show. She always delivers, and we look forward to hearing what they're going to do next and maybe what they're gonna replace rim to rim with. Still so many things that you could all can come out to the to the South Rim and do in the absence of rim to rim.
Brian:There are so many great hikes that you could put together, so I'm I'm not gonna stop saying it. If you had plans to do rim to rim, you had your tickets booked to come out to the Grand Canyon, Still come out. There are still iconic bucket list worthy adventures that you can do from the South Rim and ending on the South Rim. And if you have any questions, I'll help you. I would love nothing more than to, you know, to help you figure out what what is best for you and your group or you personally.
Brian:Whatever it is, just reach out anytime because, you know, that's what we're here for, helping everyone have their best possible Grand Canyon experience. And, of course, we're all sad that North the North Rim is closed, and that was my last rim to rim that I did that that next morning. But I've, you know, found that besides the traditional South Rim hikes like rim to river, there are so many great things you can do on the off corridor trips off corridor trails as well. So I'm happy to help. We've talked about it a lot on previous episodes of the podcast as well, so go back and listen to those and get in our hike club Grand Canyon Facebook group where we can talk about all this stuff as well, or just send me a message.
Brian:I remember that next day, by the way, after I left Jackie and and headed back to my room and got barely any sleep. I think it was less than an hour, and it was restless sleep at that. But that was my last rim to rim that I did the next morning as well, North Kaibab to South Kaibab. And God, I miss it so much. I miss it so, so much.
Brian:And can't wait till we can get back up to the to the North Rim and experience the majesty of the North Kaibab Trail that obviously was devastated by the fire. We don't know to what extent, but nothing can take away the the the majesty of it. It it'll be back. Alright. Let's talk about coach Arnie.
Brian:Arnie Fonseca Junior, our resident exercise physiologist and canyon coach. Here to talk this time about health versus fitness. May sound like the same thing, but turns out it's not. Here's Arnie.
Arnie:So here's a coach Arnie rule. I would rather you be 100% healthy versus 80% fit. Look. You're under pressure. You got a big trip.
Arnie:For some of you, this is it. You're coming from a long way. You've invested money, plane fees, all kind of thing, time off from work. So I get it. And you're not sure, have I done enough?
Arnie:Have I done enough? The trap then is that last minute push. My advice, don't do it. Don't do it. Look at your training.
Arnie:You either did enough or you didn't. Catching up is a fool's bet. Did you hear me? Catching up is a fool's bet. That's how injuries happen.
Arnie:That's how overtraining happens. So here's my here's my last bit of advice. Trust your training, rest, or modify your trip, or don't go. That's pretty much it. Because if you try to hammer through and get injured and then try to do the ibuprofen or the cortisone shuffle, that's a loser's bet as well, and you're risking your health.
Arnie:So again, these are some tips for you last minute thinkers and hikers and adventurers, and I hope it helps. I love you, and I want you to have great adventures, and I want you to come back. Love you guys.
Brian:Coach Arnie, Arnie Fonseca junior. His contact information, as always, is in the show notes of every episode that includes his phone number, so feel free to reach out to coach. He is there to help anytime and can help you with your Grand Canyon adventure and especially with getting ready for it. So reach out. Alright.
Brian:That is it for now. A lot of memories that we look back on, with this one stirred up a lot of memories for me, the Grand Canyon Lodge and the North Rim, and won't stop saying it. Can't wait to get back there. We will get back there at some at at some point. All of us will.
Brian:It is going to happen. My name is Brian Special encouraging you as always to go hike the canyon. You can do it. Take that first step. Embrace the journey.
Brian:And when you get there, whether it's for time goals or taking your time, just hike your own hike and savor every step in the magnificent Grand Canyon. We'll see you next time on the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show powered by Hikin'. Please support the brand that supports this show at hikin'.club. That's hikin.club.