Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep75
===
Second Acts Within Life
---
[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: [00:01:00] Many of our second act conversations this season have focused on a big leap: quitting the job, starting the business, moving countries, changing lifestyle, or shifting major relationships. But what if your second act begins when you stop trying to become an idealized version of yourself, and you start building a life that your real self can actually sustain?
Meet Monica Packer
---
Audra Dinell: Today, we get to hear from Monica Packer. Monica is a longtime podcaster and founder of About Progress, a top-rated show with millions of downloads. She guides women to find sustainable growth by adopting progress over perfection. She has served thousands of women online as a certified habits and identity coach.
Her book, Sticky Habits: A Woman's Guide to Reclaim Happiness, Ditch Perfectionism, and Create Habits That Last, will be published in fall of [00:02:00] 2026. Monica is a mom of five, a former middle school teacher, a sourdough obsessor, and a beginning gardener. I cannot wait for you to hear this conversation with Monica.
Welcome, Monica
Monica, thanks for being on the show today. I'm so excited to talk to you
Monica Packer: Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. It's, it's a great day
Audra Dinell: What I love about your message is that it's so relatable, especially to listeners of this podcast, because we're talking all about second acts
Monica Packer: Yeah. Mm-hmm
Audra Dinell: oftentimes those come from big things: a divorce or leaving a job to start a business, becoming sober. But you talk about is changing the way we live inside the life we've already built. Tell me more about that
Costume Life Realization
---
Monica Packer: This is why I've been so excited to be here because this is what [00:03:00] I am, have been living out for the last 10 years, and also what I'm living out still. I think it's a continuous cycle of relearning who we are and how to fit that into our lives. That began more with me as I was approaching my 30th birthday is when I really had, like, my first midlife crisis.
I, I think we could joke to say I had a little early. I tend to do some things like that pretty early. And that's where I realized I love my life. Like, I wouldn't change it. I want my same spouse and kids and where we live, and that I, I was home with my kids at the time. Like, none of that w- was what I wanted to change.
But what I didn't like about it was that I didn't feel like I was living it to myself. It almost felt like a costume you put on, and not one that totally fit me. And for me, I realized it was just because for my roles and my responsibilities, I could show up for them. But [00:04:00] for me and my life, I was on the sidelines.
So there were no goals or dreams or hobbies or self-care to speak of because I didn't know how to do it outside of the all or nothing cycle. I was an aspiring perfectionist for my first 20 years. That was
Audra Dinell: That was honestly
Monica Packer: midlife crisis was at 20,
Audra Dinell: 20,
Monica Packer: I had all the parts down on the outside, like all the, you know, straight A student, doing so well in every part of life, like very enviable.
And yet, and this is at co- in college, obviously, 20 I was struggling massively with multiple eating disorders and mental health issues that came with them, and suicidal ideation at one point that it became really scary. And because of that, I went into recovery, and I thought recovery meant you don't try anymore in terms of the personal stuff.
I thought what got me to that point was this hell-bent perfectionism [00:05:00] of this hustle culture, grinding, you know, discipline, willpower at all costs, and I paid those costs. And I didn't want to pay them ever again. And so to stay safe, I went to the nothing side, and that's where for everyone else and everything else, I could show up and do my part, but for me, it was on the sidelines.
But at 30, I realized this is actually another form of perfectionism, and I only learned that because I was lucky enough to find a therapist who told me like it is. And she pointed out that that's what I was doing, and then everything clicked in place. I could understand my entire 30 years of my life so much differently by seeing I was on the spectrum the whole time of this perfectionism,
and because of that, the price that was being paid ultimately was me and my life. So the past 10 years has been a big experiment for me of figuring out my kind of version of a second act, which is [00:06:00] really just, "How can I insert me into my life? How can I grow and change and develop and try with progress being the point, not perfection?"
And that is what has changed my life totally
Audra Dinell: I hear you say in another way everything on the outside the way you might have wanted it to be, but it was the inside that was missing
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm. Yes, but also the inside was affecting the outside, and that's what really shook me up were just a few moments with my kids where I realized I was reacting to just daily issues with my kids, like simple things like spilled milk, you know, sweeping up crumbs, someone not being where they should be at a right time.
Like, I was reacting to that in a way that wasn't me. Not like in this way that's, like, dangerous or anything, but just, like, in a way that felt like, whoa. Like, the real Monica wouldn't do [00:07:00] that
Audra Dinell: Yeah, like what's that about?
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I love the curiosity that, that's applied there. I feel like have that level of awareness to begin with and then to get curious about, hmm, there's something here that match
Monica Packer: And it honestly was one of those things where it was a... You know, people always talk about rock bottom. I think most people's rock bottoms are a series of moments like that, where you kind of have that little tug on your mind and in your heart that's like, "No," or, "I don't want this," or, "Is that really me?"
And that's something I have learned to pay better and better attention to. But it was, I think, the frequency of it and also being able to see how, you know, if I'm trying to hold it all together for all these outside things but the internal part is struggling and falling apart, then the outside things are gonna fall apart too.
Like, they are obviously being affected [00:08:00] as well, and so I've gotta figure out the internal stuff so that I don't really mess up what I value with this external stuff too, my roles and my responsibilities
Audra Dinell: Yeah, it's almost like the foundation has to be sturdy or eventually that's built will collapse. I mean,
Monica Packer: Ja
Audra Dinell: withstand years and decades and rain and snow for a bit, but if the foundation isn't sturdy, it will not for the time that,
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: to
Perfectionism Spectrum
---
Monica Packer: I think that's such a perfect analogy for perfectionism, and I know I just used perfect, the swear word. Because really what it is is we have a faulty foundation. You know, perfectionism is oftentimes a coping mechanism, especially for those who have been through something traumatic. But for all people who have these perfectionistic tendencies of all or nothing, maybe they swing back and forth or they [00:09:00] stay in one camp for a long time or another camp for a long time, what really is at play is a misplacement of identity.
They're placing who they think they are on the outcomes or on the outside piece. And when you do that, that's where those massive flaws are in the foundation. No matter what is built up on that beautiful house, no h- no, no matter how big and gorgeous and enviable or how small or crumbling, it's all indicative
It's not, none of it's gonna stay, really. None of it's gonna stay. The beautiful structure's gonna fall apart just alongside the crumbling structure. They're, they're one in the same really because they're built both based on that foundation of not really knowing at your core who you are
Audra Dinell: I can relate. As a person with ADHD, the all or nothing mentality is something I've lived my whole life with. Becoming late diagnosed, I
Monica Packer: [00:10:00] Yeah
Audra Dinell: examine it for the first time, but I've never related it to perfectionism in the way that you're talking about. I have looked at it on that spectrum of, okay, all and external, that's one side, yes. I've understood that, but the way you're talking about perfectionism, also choosing to not pursue goals or, you know, just focus on others. I've never made that connection. So I think that's really powerful for the listeners who might think, "Eh, I don't struggle with perfectionism." That's definitely something I have said before.
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: not a big perfectionist
Monica Packer: And this is where these tendencies are very sneaky. For some people, you will look at them and you'll be like, "I got you. You're a perfectionist," like hardcore. But I have found in my work of, you know, doing this now over 10 years working with thousands of women, most perfectionists are actually this internal kind of quiet kind.
Most of them in some way have [00:11:00] parts of their lives, maybe not all of them, but parts of their lives where they are stuck on the sidelines. They are waiting because they are afraid of failure, or they're waiting for the right skill sets or the certainty of the outcome or, or their own certainty in themselves that they can do it.
And you know, I, I'm, I don't have ADHD myself, but four out of my five kids do. And, and so do some, lots of the clients I work with. And I think there's something to that swing as well of, you know, that it kind of feels good to be the overachieving perfectionist. It kind of feels good. Like, that's why we all feel good January 1st, like to go full throttle for something.
Audra Dinell: 8th. It
Monica Packer: some way creates all these like feelgood chemicals in our brain and our body that can kind of mislead us to think, "Well, this is a good thing. This is the good way." But also it's the way. It's the only way we change is by doing this extreme stuff. But then we pay the price, and I really see that a lot with my clients, you know, who, [00:12:00] who have ADHD, my kids too, is there's always a price to pay for the all.
And a lot of times that price is nothing, you know, burnout. Maybe you pay a price with relationships or your mental health or your physical health. Something always is, is paid, you know, for that all
Audra Dinell: I agree. And when I first started working with my team about four or five years ago, would tell them my whole life I've been in this cycle of
Monica Packer: Hmm.
Audra Dinell: achievement and then burnout, and it just
Monica Packer: Yeah
Audra Dinell: So to be able to get off the rollercoaster and be grounded and care for myself has been a game changer, but hard won.
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Starting the Experiment
---
Audra Dinell: me, at 30, when you had these realizations and you started launching into these experiments, how did that look? Where did that start?
Monica Packer: It began in two ways. One, it had to begin internally. I love that we've already been talking about that to some degree. And then also externally. It had to begin by first [00:13:00] examining, well, who am I, after all? If everything on the outside were to be removed, who am I left with here? Do I know her?
And then also on the outside, I had to change practically what I was doing to change. A lot of people think that if you're going to ditch perfectionism, then it's just apathy, that you don't do, you don't try. And remember, I fell for that too, but that's just another version of perfectionism.
That's you being on the same spectrum, okay? So I had to also challenge that all or nothing model and build a new path for myself that made a lot of space for failure, for mess, for mediocrity, for discouragement, you know, for, for all the things I did not like and avoided at all costs by hustling or not trying as a perfectionist.
So going back to the internal one, there's very deep questions to answer about what I value as a person, and I'm speaking to this as the pers- people who are listening. So what do you value? What matters to you? [00:14:00] What do you want? Who do you want to be? Even what your priorities are and your likes and your dislikes.
Do Something List
---
Monica Packer: But the way I began before I started with that was something a lot lighter and more exploratory, and it was with a do something list. Because I was at that mile marker of almost 30, I thought, "Here's an opportunity for me to think, like, do I want the next mile marker of 40 to feel the same way, where I look around and think about all these things I thought I would have done at this point or been doing or interested in, or things I used to love that are no longer part of my life, and I'm so sad about that?
Do I want that to be the same feelings I carry going to 40? No." So how can I explore those things and as part of that, kind of do two birds with one stone? Relearn who I am By exploring that and challenge that all or nothing path. And that was the do something list. So I made a list of 30 things I wanted to do [00:15:00] before I turned 30.
And this was not goals, and it was not resolutions, and it also wasn't like a bucket list like I'm gonna kiss a stranger on the Eiffel Tower. These were every day kind of things. Like I love hiking, never hiked anymore, so I put on my list go on five new hikes. Brought my kids along for that. I was a big reader.
I was an English major, English teacher. I was a middle school teacher before I had my kids, so also hadn't been reading. So I put on my list read 20 new books. But it ranged in I, I guess category but also in seriousness. Like one of them was start a, a blog, and that was really scary for me because I had thought about writing for 10 years, and I started my blog well after it was cool.
So like nobody read it. And so in doing it, again, not only was I
Audra Dinell: was
Monica Packer: able to explore, okay, so who am I? In, in all of these parts of myself that I'm bringing back or in these parts of myself that I'm trying to explore and try out for the first time, [00:16:00] which of those are resonating deeply with the core of like this is, this is me.
This is Monica. And which things can I let go now because I tried it again? Like an adult ballet class. Okay? I, I did that, and I was like that's cool, but people are still pretty serious there, and I think I could not go into the adult ball- ballet classes anymore. But now I read like 100 books a year.
That one stuck around. That's a core part of who I am.
Audra Dinell: it. Yeah
Monica Packer: And along the way, Audra, this is one of the biggest parts The reason that list mattered is not because I checked off everything on the list. I have now made 11 do something lists. I have never completed a single one. The point has always been exploration, not completion.
And in the exploring of me, I'm also challenging that inner perfectionist. For the first time in my life at that point, at 30, I was allowed to be terrible at something. I was allowed to do something just for the sake of doing it, [00:17:00] not because I had to be good at it. And weirdly, not only did it give me more confidence in ways that really surprised me, there was also a trickle-down effect to other areas of my life, and I started picking up more of the traditional ways that we work on ourselves, like goal planning again.
I, I started uh, doing a day planner for the first time in like 10 years. You know things like that, having a dream, like a dream list again and,
Audra Dinell: again
Monica Packer: and working on other practical sides of like maybe my,
Audra Dinell: maybe
Monica Packer: my physical health or things like that.
And I began
to work on those things more, but in a different way because I knew better that the real path to change is messy, it's filled with frustrations and pivots, and that it has to have more curiosity, as you mentioned, compassion, and even courage to do things differently.
Because when you can do that, you stay on the path and you grow better.
Audra Dinell: better.
Monica Packer: do something list was the one-two punch that I started [00:18:00] with. And of course, there's so many other branches it can turn into. But for those who are listening, if you wanna challenge both the internal and the external in a way that feels less pressure-filled, try the do something list
Audra Dinell: I love that tool. I'm going to be trying it. And I think one thing that I'm assuming or that I'm taking from my work and kind of marrying in this conversation is on the path, when you're doing something, there is really no end point.
Monica Packer: Uh-huh.
Audra Dinell: don't need
Monica Packer: That's right
Audra Dinell: You know, it's not the 10-step process to get to this place and then I'll be happy. That's just not the point.
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm
Audra Dinell: is to take the step, to do the something,
Monica Packer: That's right
Audra Dinell: then to do the next thing
No Arrival Mindset
---
Monica Packer: Let me speak on that just briefly for a second because that's another fault line of this foundation of perfectionism, right, is we think we're convinced there is an arrival.
Audra Dinell: Yeah
Monica Packer: is an end. Like, if I get to [00:19:00] that point, then I'll feel this way. Or like when I finally do that thing, then I'll be done.
And you are never done, and you never feel like you arrive, which is why you stay in that hustle side, or you burn out or go to the other side. Or you think, "Well, if that's what I have to do, count me out," you know? "So I'm gonna stay over here." Instead, I'm gonna say kind of like a m- a, a mantra of sorts that I've had to embody the last 10 years because it can be a little depressing as a recovering perfectionist to be like, "Wait, there's no arrival?"
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Monica Packer: "So like, why do I even try?" And it's because, and this is the mantra: the transformation lies in the process, not the outcome. All along the real transformation is happening right here right now. I'll give you a quick example. Since the fall, I'm turning 40 in like 10 days. Another milestone. I'm gonna avoid the midlife crisis though.
I'm avoiding the midlife crisis this time, I think. I've already had two, so we're done, right? [00:20:00] But I have been really wanting to do a pull-up, and that is something that I even had on my do something list for a few years. And I didn't quite get to it. I would start picking up heavier weights and stuff.
I'm not really like this big fitness person. I just like ... It's a big mental health thing for me each day. So it's not like I have a fitness account or anything, which is totally cool if people do, but I'm just trying to say I'm a normal, like, lifting weights person, okay? But I've always had this drive like, "Wouldn't it be so cool to do a pull-up?"
And I started to work on it in the fall, and then of course it dropped off like in, in February. I think things got really crazy 'cause I was writing a book, and then I picked it up again. And I've been sh- kinda sharing my progress lately on Instagram Stories, and this woman
Audra Dinell: This woman
Monica Packer: messaged me, and she's like, "Do you feel strong
Audra Dinell: strong
Monica Packer: now though?
Like, do you feel stronger?"
Audra Dinell: stronger?" And
Monica Packer: and I wrote back, like, right away, and I was like, "Nope." You know? But then this morning as I was doing my, like, three-minute pull-up routine, which is hil- I've not, I've not gotten there yet. This is all trying. I realized, I'm like, wait a [00:21:00] second. I, like, held it for a while.
I didn't get up there, but I held it at that 90-degree angle for a while. I've never done that before. Oh, and I did four assisted pull-ups instead of three. And I noticed the other day that my pushups were way easier to do. And I realized, okay, like, I actually am stronger. It's just been happening so incrementally that I didn't notice in the moment.
And if that's not an encapsulation of what I've taught for 10 years, I don't know what is. And this is a big part that scares us as recovering perfectionists. I keep saying that 'cause you're now all invited. We're now all recovering perfectionists. You have to have the courage to believe that the small wins are building.
And ways you just can't see. And that belief coupled with the other belief that the transformation lies in the process all along, not the outcome, that's what's gonna keep you on the path to some outcomes that you [00:22:00] may want. And maybe it'll look a little different or maybe it'll look exactly like you want,
Audra Dinell: If you
Monica Packer: but when you get there, you won't be like,
Audra Dinell: like
Monica Packer: "Oh, wait.
I'm not... I haven't arrived. What a disappointment. I'm gonna fall off the path." You're like, "Okay, cool. Let's keep going. What's next? What's next?"
Audra Dinell: You put your coins in bank of those two things. You put your coins in the bank of the hope of
Monica Packer: Yeah
Audra Dinell: transformation on the journey.
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.
Three Cs of Change
---
Audra Dinell: How do you now stay present being a recovering perfectionist and, you know, working towards goals or, you know, having this ambition, but knowing truly that there is no arrival? How do you stay present in the work?
Monica Packer: Hmm. I don't think anyone has ever asked me that before, which I am astounded because I'm realizing this is how we [00:23:00] live it out. Like, if we're thinking about the how, it's being able to stay present with it. So if I'm gonna puzzle this out with you in real time, I think how I stay present comes down to three kind of characteristics of change, I would say.
And the first is having curiosity I didn't have the same level as- of curiosity as a perfectionist as I do now. Day to day, but also, like, frustration to frustration, or if things aren't turning out so well, or if they did turn out so well, I try to carry that same amount of just being curious. What's working?
What's not? And what's important now? You know, w- and kind of trying to stick with that thing. And also, where did I go off with that? Or what, what thing outside of my control happened that I can, that I can just accept now? Okay, so that curiosity has been really vital. The next is compassion. Perfectionists thrive off of shame.[00:24:00]
And because we think all or nothing is the only way to grow, we also attach to that this, this misunderstanding that the only way we can change is by being mean to ourselves. So what allows me to be present and stay on the path is a way different inner voice. That has taken me a lot of time to learn.
Now, I had 10 years of practice as recovering from my eating disorders, you know, but now I've had another 10 years of cultivating this inner voice of one that is more curious, but also more grace-filled. Like, just talking to myself in a different way than I ever did before. And I can tell you, the research backs that up.
Kristen Neff is an amazing researcher. Brene Brown. They base it off of other researchers from other female researchers that I share about in my book that compassion is actually the way we change, not shame. Like, sustainable change comes from compassion. And then I'll say one more, and it's courage. It is scary to do things differently than other people.
I could have done [00:25:00] this pull-up challenge and done, like, 30 minutes a day for, like, the last month. I've been working on it in, like, three-minute increments for several months since the fall, you know? So over six months, okay? And it is kinda scary to think, "Oh," like, "I will get there if I do these small things."
It's scary to go after something big in ways that look different than other people may have done those things. And by the way, overnight success is another lie that we believe as perfectionists, okay? And a lot of times people are just lying about what got them to the place they are. Or we just don't see it.
Maybe they're not lying. Maybe we just never got to see the process they went through. I had a client early on who was very scared of that process of staying on the path, facing more failures, of being more mediocre, having things not go according to plan, you know and still staying on the path and using more of a compassionate voice and cur- and having that curiosity.
And she [00:26:00] just... You know, she decided it was finally worth it to try. 'cause she had paid these prices too long. And she did, and several months into coaching she got on a call and she said something I've never forgotten. We were celebrating her progress, like, "Wow, look at what you did over this many months' time, like, and you didn't think you could.
Like, what have you learned?" And she said, "I've learned it takes the greatest of courage to do the smallest of things."
Audra Dinell: Yeah
Monica Packer: So those three things, I'm gonna re- repeat them. It was curiosity, compassion, and courage. That's what helps me stay present on the path
Sticky Habits for Women
---
Audra Dinell: Mm. So speaking of the book, you've mentioned that a few times. love to hear about it. Tell us who the book is for. What is it gonna help us do?
Monica Packer: This book is for any woman who has failed a habit and blamed herself So that's gonna be all of us.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Monica Packer: All of us.
Audra Dinell: Yeah
Monica Packer: this book came about because of my internal work of figuring out [00:27:00] who I was and how that began to change my life, but then I hit a plateau, and that's because my day-to-day life wasn't supporting that self.
It was great that I knew wh- who I was, but if my day-to-day life wasn't supporting that self or making that self possible, then I had a problem. And at the time, I worked to try to install habits in ways that I had been trained in my coaching program with these bestselling books and methods, and they weren't working.
And then my clients had the same needs, and we worked on the same, with the same methods. They weren't working for them either. And my own moment of, I realized gra- quite gradually, it was another series of moments thing, that the reason why these methods weren't working is because they were written and designed by men.
And that's not to say that, wow, they're the worst, like where are our pitchforks and let's, let's ride at dawn kinda thing. It's not that. It's more about that in good faith they shared these methods [00:28:00] believing that they were like gender neutral. But men's lives are women... different than women's lives, and I go into more of that in the book.
It's invisible labor. Women have, carry the high majority of invisible labor. That's anything that goes into care work, housework, things at work and institutions. It literally keeps the economy afloat, and yet it's often underpaid, like that... think of your teachers, nurses, you know, childcare,
Audra Dinell: care
Monica Packer: or unpaid.
That's everything at home,
Audra Dinell: at home.
Monica Packer: and it's also extremely undervalued, okay? The New York Times did a whole I, I, I guess, research on this and, and they came up with a number, and so did the United
Audra Dinell: can be
Monica Packer: Health Organization, that was about $11 trillion a year is what the number would be if we were to account for all the hours and work that goes into invisible labor,
Audra Dinell: labor.
Monica Packer: and even that number is based off of $7.25 an hour.
So even that is undervalued.
Audra Dinell: [00:29:00] Yeah
Monica Packer: Women carry the high majority worldwide. This transcends politics, religion. It transcends region, demographics, race, everything. It, it varies. Like in, in the United States, women do double the amount of time with, with anything invisible labor than men do, but in India, it's six to one.
So it, it fluctuates, but regardless of that, women have less time. We have less energy. We have less support. We also have less predictability. We have far more interruptions, and that means we need to do habits differently. So to save you another hour of talking about it, in the book I, I go way into more of like what- Why are our lives different, and how does that make the methods that we've been taught our entire lives not actually work for us?
And, and just quick spoiler, it's because those methods are largely driven off of willpower and predictability. Willpower is energy.
Audra Dinell: Henry
Monica Packer: Okay? It's like a bank that gets emptied. [00:30:00] Okay? And because we're doing more with less time and energy, it gets emptied in different ways and faster. Okay? And also predictability.
We already talked about we have way less predictability. So h- then how do we design habits that work? I practically teach that and also teach about how to reform our bad habits as well. And it's been... I have been doing this work overall for 10 years. I began the habit stuff about eight years ago.
So it's been many, many years of research, study, application. And what I share is not anecdotal. It's not like, "This worked for me, so it should work for all women."
Audra Dinell: women.
Monica Packer: This has been applied with the hundreds of coaching clients I've had and the thousands of women who have learned from me online, and it's something that is going to change a lot for women.
And it all goes back to that first thing. It's for any woman who has failed a habit and blamed herself, and instead I want you to blame the method and learn a new way of forming habits in ways that are flexible, that are more about those three C's of change I [00:31:00] shared, a less, like a we're gonna ditch perfectionism, and because of that, we're actually gonna create habits that stick
Comparison and Inner Critic
---
Audra Dinell: I wanna double tap on about five things that you said, but for the sake of time in our podcast, the one C I want to add to your list of Cs that you have said today is comparison.
Monica Packer: Oof!
Audra Dinell: when we're thinking about habits and goals and ditching perfectionism and knowing who we are, that is the biggest distractor, that is the biggest sort of evil out there. That is the number one thing I think we must avoid when we're doing all of this work,
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: if we find something in your book of habits that works for us, need to own that and embrace that and keep our eyes on our own freaking paper and not look at what our neighbor's [00:32:00] doing and what's working for him, or what, you know, our parents
Monica Packer: Yeah
Audra Dinell: modeled or showed us or encouraged us to do.
We need to keep our eyes on our own paper and just, like, really avoid that comparison monster, because when we find the thing that, that works, like, we just have to have the courage to say, "Nope,
Monica Packer: Yeah
Audra Dinell: works for me. I will not put up with comparison. I will not allow myself to go down that lane."
Monica Packer: And if we're gonna tie that back to habits, I think one of the things that we do with that is inner comparison. We compare our current self to a past self. I used to be able to read in this way, or day plan, or meal plan, or meditate, or journal, or exercise, and now I can't do it that way, so now it doesn't count anymore.
There is no other version of this habit that I can do. And that's one thing I can walk them through with a book is to help challenge that inner comparison monster, like where we're comparing our current selves to our past selves and know, like, habits are supportive. That's [00:33:00] their only job. And when we own that, we get to choose what habits actually help us,
Audra Dinell: us
Monica Packer: 'cause habits are helpers, and then we choose a version of that habit that's actually going to do it for the season we're in.
There's some two starters for someone who is wondering, "Well, how does it actually look different?" Start there. Instead of it being about prescriptions and what you're supposed to do or what you were able to do before, it's right here, right now, what's going to help me?
Audra Dinell: I love that because I think the world is noisy
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm
Audra Dinell: lot of, us included, just with beautiful intentions who are putting stuff out into the world, but it's really important to not should yourself if something's not working for you. Instead, I love that motto, habits are helpers, how will this support me in this unique season of who I am?
Monica Packer: That's right
Where to Connect
---
Audra Dinell: What's the book called? When does it come out?
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm
Audra Dinell: How can our listeners work with you in the meantime?
Monica Packer: Oh, sure. [00:34:00] So the book is called Sticky Habits. It's a guide for women to ditch perfectionism, reclaim their lives, and form habits that stick. Reclaim their happiness as part of it. And they can actually pre-order it right now at stickyhabitsbook.com. We got some great pre-order bonuses, by the way, so go check it out there.
And then I did mention the do something list. I have a free training for them. And you can make your do something list any time of year. I have people who make it midyear or mid-season, it doesn't matter. So go to aboutprogress.com/dsl, and that stands for do something list. And then since you're already listening to a podcast, search for About Progress and come and listen to my episodes there.
I do a lot of interviews and solo episodes, and I'd love to have you join my listening community there with About Progress
Audra Dinell: Awesome. And we will link those three ways to connect with you in the show notes. you so much for taking your time to talk to our listeners today. Is there any final thing you would tell them
Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.[00:35:00]
Audra Dinell: as they're going about their day?
Identity Keeps Evolving
---
Monica Packer: So since I talk about identity a lot, I think the thing I would tell them is that identity isn't static either. While it's so good for us to always have that intention of figuring out, well, who am I regardless of what is happening, those things evolve too over time. There are some things that may never fade.
Like one of my values that probably will never go anywhere is love of learning. But other things change. For a couple years, leadership was one of my top values, and right now adventure booted leadership off that list.
Audra Dinell: list
Monica Packer: So there's still some lightness to this. There's a lot more lightness than I think we believe is possible for these really important things, from the way we see ourselves to our habits. And, and that's not only okay, it's actually what, again, will help you stay on this path to knowing who you are and living that out each day
Audra Dinell: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Monica. It was so great to talk to you. I cannot wait to read your book, and I know our [00:36:00] listeners will like it too.
Monica Packer: Thank you, Audra
Audra Dinell: Thank you.