Ep. 116: JTF2 Sniper / Assaulter - Jeff Depatie

Join us on the Silvercore Podcast as we dive into the inspiring journey of Jeff Depatie, a Canadian sniper and advocate for post-traumatic growth. From his idyllic upbringing in nature to his experiences in Canada's elite special forces Joint Task Force 2 (JTF2), Jeff shares his wisdom on self-discovery, overcoming adversity, and the power of connecting with the outdoors.

Get ready for a captivating conversation that will leave you motivated and craving more.

Tune in now!

https://artofadversity.com
https://citizengreen.io
https://www.instagram.com/jeffdepatie_

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.

Silvercore has been providing its
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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.

ca.

Today's guest is a good old Canadian
boy who grew up hunting and fishing

and exploring the outdoors and
now offers training programs on

marksmanship and self growth.

He's a well educated and passionate
proponent for post traumatic

growth, the art of adversity and
the expansion of consciousness.

All right.

And at some point in between, he
was a sniper and assaulter with

Canada's tier one elite special
forces joint task force too.

Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Jeff Depatie.

Jeff Depatie: Thanks Trev.

Uh, it's always a pleasure to be
on, uh, these shows, you know, a

lot of guys, uh, gals don't really.

Take it for granted how much effort goes
into it, how much passion and drive.

So it's a pleasure being on and
I see you got the poppy on there.

Travis Bader: Yes.

Yeah.

It'll, it'll date the show for sure, but
it'll be coming out in a couple of days.

So, um, and yeah, a lot of passion and
drive in order to just do whatever the

endeavor somebody is going to be into.

But it's not just a matter of picking
up a microphone and, uh, and, and

chatting if you want it to be successful.

So I appreciate that.

And clearly you've been in this realm
for a while and you understand that too.

Jeff Depatie: Yeah, yeah, it's a,
it's a different space, you know, when

you're, when you're hustling from a
bit of passion, not all the normal

constructs of society are there, right?

You don't, uh, you don't have the same
streams that feed our normal system.

So, uh, I appreciate it.

Travis Bader: Well, you're sort
of the, you know, looking at.

Other shows that you've done and work
that's out there on the, on the old

interwebs, kind of a poster boy for,
um, for wayward youth and adults who.

Didn't really have too much of a, um,
uh, a goal perhaps in mind to begin

with, but you figured things out and
you made things work in a system that

maybe wasn't entirely designed for you,
which I think was pretty inspiring.

And of course you've got the whole flavor
of, uh, love in the outdoors and the,

in the back hopper, which fits in great
with, uh, what Silvercore Outdoors does.

Um, Can I ask you a little bit about
what your youth was like, because I

know everyone's going to want to hear
about selection and JTF2 and all of

these other things, but I, I want to
obviously talk about that, but I'd

like to talk about what makes you.

Yeah.

Jeff Depatie: Um, well, I think just
jumping right to selection might limit.

Some of the viewers, you know, maybe
there's a chance, you know, for the

dads raising kids or the young men still
developing themselves, you know, and

they miss out when they don't hear about
how, in this case, myself, how I was as

a young man, because how I was as a young
man certainly impacted the decisions

and the choices I made downstream.

Uh, I was, uh, originally from
Northern Ontario in Canada.

Um, I was an outdoors guy.

I was always very drawn to the outdoors.

I still am.

I like being in nature.

I like touching nature.

Um, I interact very well with it.

We communicate deeply.

Uh, you know, I use the word
communicate and exchange of wisdom,

but really, you know, that could be
like, I like being out in its spores.

I like feeling its moisture, you
know, like a very tactile sense of it.

Um, I was always very connected
as a, even as a young guy.

Um, uh, drawn to its systems.

I'm a systems thinker.

And at the time, you know, like,
I mean, there is no greater

system than mother earth.

Um, she's pretty perfect.

And yeah, we like to
mess her up quite a bit.

Um, yeah, so.

It was pretty idyllic by and large idyllic
in terms of idyllic, like a storybook in

a lot of ways where, uh, it wasn't, um,
subject to abuses or anything like that.

I had supportive parents as much
as they could, um, as we're seeing.

Things that my parents would
have done in their generation are

now like, oh, no, that's crazy.

You can't do that kind of stuff, um, to
this new, highly sensitive generation.

Um, but at the time they were using
all the tools they had, right.

Um, different discipline
methods, things like that.

Um, cause I, I feel like I was kind of on
the transition one, you know, before cell

phones and during cell phones, internet,
and now full on generation alpha.

Um, with a different kind of connectivity.

And that was one thing that nature
really gave to me was, uh, the ability to

connect, connect with something outside
of myself, learning how to do this

actually helped me connect with myself.

So we, you and I were kind of talking
offline a little bit about, um,

emotions and being in touch with
yourself and growth and all that.

The reason it's so important to mention
developing that in your youth is because.

As we go through life,
everything is going to attempt

to disconnect us from ourselves.

That's how it is.

Our systems are designed, they're
built out of fear, um, and

they're going to automatically
draw us away from connection.

Think of the news.

The news is almost always negative.

It's designed to isolate.

It's not designed like
that intentionally per se.

I mean, there could be some minds
out there doing it on purpose.

Um, But it's just the, it, the place it's
built out of, you know, it shows fear,

it shows fear and fear disconnects us.

Um, and that's where, you know,
to circle back to being in nature.

I didn't, I didn't fear that space,
that system, that very natural space,

you know, and a lot of people now.

Are disconnected from nature because
they're actually afraid of it.

You know, they're, they're it just,
cause it's so unfamiliar, it's

not even necessarily like bears
and wolves and cougars and stuff.

It's just like, it's
so unfamiliar to them.

Um, to step into it as deeply
outside their comfort zone.

So we kind of have, you know,
people like the weekend warriors

that kind of dabble with that.

Um, but a lot of people
disconnected from it.

Uh, I, I was, I, you know, I was
always into hunting and fishing.

Um, I've hunting, I've kind of
moved away from, uh, if I'm being

like completely honest, um, after,
after you hunt people, the act of

hunting animals loses something.

I'm not sure what, uh, but
it's draw for me wasn't there.

So now I, I, I, um, I do help
other people with their hunting.

A small example, I have an online
course called ultra long range shooting.

Um, and we just did our first in person.

But just through the online and through
the community there, we had a trapper

set up a shot on a bear cross at lake.

So he baited this bear and, uh,
he got, he tagged it, uh, it

was about 930 meters or yards.

I think it was.

It's probably close to a
world record on a bear.

Holy crow.

So like, I have no problem
bringing, uh, that's something

he does, you know, he, he.

Um, which has been kind of rewarding
for me because, uh, you know, I

got out of shooting a little bit
after the military and kind of

shied away from using those skills.

So it was really hard for me to find a
place in that circle back to my youth.

Um, because I want men to understand this.

I said, by and large,
it was mostly idyllic.

There was some things, you know, I still
had more traditional parents that started

closing me off to my, my emotions.

And the reason I mentioned this is, um.

Because having access to these things
actually makes us stronger, makes us more

resilient and resilience actually keeps
our mind open, our consciousness expanded.

So it doesn't matter if you're hunting,
fishing, whatever you're doing, you

know, if you want to draw it down to
a skill, having access to more, um,

awareness, um, more, so when I use
the word consciousness, it's just

like super quickly think of it as
feedback loops right now, you've got

a bunch of feedback loops running.

You know, you're drinking something, so
you're tasting, but like every cell in

your body is running millions of these
small algorithms over and over and over.

And then we capture them subconsciously,
unconsciously, unconsciously in our

mind, and then we filter through them.

So, you know, an example, me as a
sniper, there I am behind a shot.

There's a lot going on, you
know, um, Um, to say the least

to make this one thing happen.

Um, but the more I'm able to stay.

Fully present with the situation, which
is part of that is your emotions, right?

Like as men, we're, we're shied away from
our emotions, you know, men don't feel,

men don't feel men don't cry, whatever.

Um, you know, I'm, I'm, it's a bit
antiquated now, you know, that's changing

in, in this kind of modern world, but
it actually adds to our resiliency.

And then instead of like coming out the
other end, like me and developing PTSD,

because everything's so compartmentalized.

Um, back in my youth, if that would
have been nurtured more and more now,

and it's, it's nobody's fault, really,
you know, I could start pointing my

finger at schooling and all these
things that are in our systems that

tend us towards not doing these things.

Um, Anyhow, though, like I said, mostly
idyllic, uh, it was a fun childhood, a lot

of winter snowmobiling, sports like that.

You know, I was a bit of an extremist.

I didn't really realize that I had
started running away from myself,

running away from my insecurities.

Um, so what happens with some people,
more likely men than women, um, you

start aggressively pushing against them
or aggressively running away from them.

Um, and, um, And that eventually led me to
the military and, uh, so on and so forth.

Travis Bader: When did you realize
you're aggressively running away?

Jeff Depatie: Well, I wish I would
have realized 20, 30 years ago.

Um, but it wasn't until, Oh,
actually a couple of years ago that

I really, I started feeling into it.

So we have this thing, you know,
that the Greeks called our psyche.

Uh, another word could be soul in science.

It might be called like the
full expression of your DNA.

And it sits inside most people.

And especially, you know what?

Pretty much all over the world,
because either there there's people

who are in a survival state where
they're just trying to get groceries

in their belly, you know, and that's
like half of the world's population.

Um, so they're, they're in this
state of, of, uh, of running.

And so they don't ever really get to
move on to the other side where you, you

sink into this and you start to feel it.

You want to express yourself, not
like so much like right art or poetry

or anything like that, but you want
to become authentically yourself.

Now, most people stifle this away
their entire lives and get to their

deathbed and are like, Oh, I wish I
would've had the courage to be me.

It's actually the number one.

Um, people's regret on their
deathbed is they didn't have

the courage to be themselves.

Um, and right now there's a lot of people
being like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm,

I'm myself, but they don't realize that
they're running the egoic algorithm.

You know, the one that's been programmed
into them since childhood and then

programmed into them through school
and then programmed into them through,

uh, the work atmosphere we have.

And so they think, cause the
ego is a trickster, right?

It doesn't do this on purpose.

It's a survival mechanism.

So it wants to run patterns over and over.

Uh, and that was the thing until my
pattern, which I thought was serving

me, you know, I was serving, I was a
tier one operator, you know, like for

me, when I set out on that journey,
there was nowhere I could have went.

I didn't want to be president.

I didn't want to be a doctor.

I wanted that.

That was my pinnacle.

And then I got there and you know, so on
and so forth, but eventually that gear

ran out and um, once that started to
happen, I had to go back in time and like,

where did these cycles begin to develop?

Because that's, that's, that can happen.

We go through life and every now and then
there's these moments of like the, the

system starts to get tested big time.

And then, um, somewhere, you know,
around middle ages or so, if these things

aren't tuned up sooner, they all come
together and all these patterns that

aren't really serving us come to a head.

Um, some people call it like
the dark night of their soul,

because what happens is if they're
trying to express themselves.

But they get caught in this darkness
and so one of them was looking back and

being like Man, you know, when I was a
teenager, exploring drugs and alcohol

and abusive ways, I didn't even realize
that one of the first things that

started me down that road is my, when I
was about 13, 14, my mom got very sick.

She was hospitalized for about six months
and I couldn't, I couldn't handle that.

You know, my mom was like
very near and dear to me.

Um, I wasn't a mama's boy, but for some
reason I was like super attached to her

mortality, couldn't care less about mine.

But super attached to hers, but then
it started this pattern of running from

my feelings, running from my emotions.

And then over the years of running,
they got collapsed down into this

very limited set, you know, basically
anger, um, was like anger and

pride, you know, in the military
pride comes up a lot, which means.

Acting within the box you're given
and being proud of it, you know,

thinking that it is a good modality,
but really what it is, is it's a system

tricking your ego into feeling safe.

Um, so yeah, I would say it wasn't until a
couple of years ago that I really realized

like sometimes we informationally know.

And then sometimes we know, you know,
it starts to set in and then other

times we do what they call embodiment.

The truth is embodied.

Now that could be a skill, you know, like,
uh, like Tom Brady, he embodied football.

You know what I mean?

And then there's some people that
are, they're really, really great

athletes or great shooters or great.

Great at hunting, you know,
like they're really great at it.

And then there's other people
kind of informationally known.

Then there's people who aren't
maybe interested in any of that.

Um, but those who embody start to show,
um, levels of genius, you know, within

their collector or their, their own realm.

Anyhow, I'm kind of like jumping
back and forth there, but yeah,

I would say it wasn't until I.

The, the system started to
collapse that I realized it.

Travis Bader: Well, just so you
know, I kind of like it when it

jumps around back and forth, cause
that's how my thought process works.

And I struggle to keep a linear
thought process to work through

here just for the audience.

At a very young age is diagnosed
with a severe ADHD and was put on a,

a high, high dosage of, uh, Ritalin
was told at the time, highest in the

province, uh, experimental run, just
to see how it, how it would work.

And, uh, I took myself off
that cold turkey by the time

I was going into high school.

Cause I, I didn't like what the meds
were doing and, uh, didn't like all

the kids calling them smart pills.

And, uh, so I'm like, that's it off.

But,

Jeff Depatie: um, yeah.

They numb a little bit of who we are.

Right.

And I think, you know, there's
right and left brain thinking,

like kind of the antiquated.

Thoughts on it, I've started to
diminish, but there is truth to it.

You know, one side is very
logical and linear and one side

is very abstract and non linear.

And what we're doing is we're using
language, which is a very linear

construct of trying to represent reality.

So we're mostly doing it
from one side of our brain.

Now.

People who tend to work out of their
right a little bit more, we'll do that.

And I saw you taking notes, you know,
that's something we do as well, where

it's like, okay, let's try to build some
conciliants to this pattern because the

overall of what's happening right now.

Yeah.

Maybe we could be really tidy
and really linear and try

to like button it up a to B.

Uh, but that's not the nature
of what's actually happening.

It's just the representation of it.

So I think people go, yeah, of course
there's, there's, there's spectrums

and whatnot, but I think people.

Get put on these things and it's
because you weren't fitting into a box.

Totally wasn't.

Psycho, you know, yeah.

Like a psychometric, that's what it is.

It's like this calculated box.

And if you follow either
side, you're non normative.

And it's like, well, most of
these are funded by school systems

or more so by big business.

So if you don't fall into those boxes.

You're, you're, we, we,
we need to medicate it.

You know, it's a weird thing.

So anyways,

Travis Bader: I digress.

I have some, yeah, I got thoughts on
the school system and the antiquated

approach of lumping children
together, just based on age alone,

as opposed to aptitude or ability.

But, uh, maybe that's a completely
different conversation, but you

mentioned, uh, dark night of our soul,
I think it was Eckhart Tolle, didn't

he have something on that, that he, uh,
talks about the dark night of our soul.

Jeff Depatie: Yeah.

So really where it starts is
it's a, it's a, uh, a Catholic

priest, not priest, Saint.

I can't remember who it
is off the top of my head.

You think I would know I
have a documentary called

the dark night of our soul.

You do.

Um, so you'd think I would know by now.

Uh, but yeah, the truth is, is
anywhere we look, that's the Herculean

labor going into the underworld.

So we inherit before we're even born.

Um, within our DNA, our wounds, their
collective wounds, um, meaning they

will keep us from our full expression.

And like I said already, I've
alluded, their tendrils have

made it into our systems.

And that's one of the things we're
running into right now is a lot of

people feel kind of insane in this
world because they're like, oh, there's,

there's something not right here.

We all kind of, we're all talking about
it, but we're trying to continually

jam the square in the circle.

Um, then there's other
ones that were given.

That we inherit along the road.

Um, and this is one of the great
illusions of the ego is that people

believe they don't have them.

Everybody that's, that's part of
the gift of the human experience.

And I believe it's actually part
of our evolution is in order for

the universe to complexify, we
have to tend to these things.

And when we tend to them, when we
go into the dark night, cause it's

relative, you know, what wounded you or
could be a wound is different than me.

Our thresholds are different,
but it's not like a competition.

It's not like, Oh, I
felt more, you felt more.

It could be, it's just
energy you couldn't sit with.

So it's literally the, like the
demons, the boogeyman's, the

dark that you couldn't be with.

And so the body stores it because it's
like, I don't know how to displace this

energy throughout my nervous system.

So it'll store it there.

Um, but eventually, you know, the
Piper comes and if we look at.

Anyone, you know, you mentioned
Eckhart Tolle, Dostoevsky, Shakespeare.

It doesn't matter anyone who's been
classified as wise or intelligent.

I don't mean intellectual intellectuals,
more like left brain soul thinking.

I mean like solely thinking, but fully
intelligent people who understand

the world differently, you know,
philosophers and things like that.

They all talk about it.

We go through it many times.

Our, our.

our system will dip into stress multiple
times during the day, multiple times.

Those are little mini
acute moments, right?

But then, um, we're, we're not just
playing out one pattern in life.

We're playing on many patterns and
every now and then someone will go

courageously, plunge your hands into
that muck and face something that has.

skewed them.

And when I say skew, I kind of
like to think of us as tuning

forks to our environment.

Um, if you take a tuning fork and put
it next to another tuning fork, it'll

resonate at that same vibration, right?

Um, that that's almost all things
from a fundamental physical.

You know, it was super string theory
up kind of idea of the universe.

Right.

And it's important.

A lot of people might, I don't know
like what they're thinking here, but

this all comes into everything we do.

The more in tune we want to be,
the more in tune we have to be.

And if my tuning fork is bent.

Which I would argue that
everybody's is a little bent,

um, because we're not perfect.

If we were perfect, we wouldn't
be destroying the earth.

If we were perfect, we'd
be much more fulfilled.

And I'm using like a very general term,
but suicide rates are on the rise.

You know, people live in apartment
buildings and don't know their neighbor.

We're very disconnected.

So there is an issue, you know,
we're, we're destroying the very

things that produce our food.

That's because we're
in this survival mode.

So we're tuning forks are bent.

And that's the thing we have to go
back and we have to repair them.

Um, and that's the dark night, the dark
night, um, I think is best represented by

Joseph Campbell with the hero's journey.

Right.

He calls it the
underworld, the underworld.

Um, but yeah, even like Carl Young,
everybody, we talk about what's good about

that though, is when we do face that,
that's where we gather actual wisdom.

Um, right now we're in the
generation of Instagram and such.

So we have.

Unearned wisdom being talked about.

So we have these people who are taking
things that they know are wise or

intelligent, and then they're parroting
them for their own means and gain.

And it's creating a really, it's
a house of cards is what it is.

Um, people like capitalizing on other
people's emotional insecurity, um, which

could be brought on from like lack of
money, lack of looks, lack of whatever,

whatever they perceive as an insecurity or
an inadequacy, it's an inadequacy factory.

So anyhow, it's also.

Something that I believe we need
to start approaching differently.

I think it's one of the reasons actually,
like if I was to bring it back to

this is why men like hunting, they go,
they know it's going to be difficult.

Um, you know, any real hunter
knows they're going to put on

their backpack or they're going
to go, they're going to be cold.

They're going to be wet.

They're going to be tired.

The animal's going to challenge
them, whatever they're looking

for, the weather, the elements,
everything's up against them.

Right.

And they go and they
step into this hardship.

I believe in doing that.

I call it the art of adversity,
um, in many different ways.

Um, but what we're kind of talking
about with the dark night of the soul.

Or your soul, um, is doing it with your
wounds, and that is the final front.

That's where the greatest Warriors go.

Um, it may not seem like it, but you know,
if I, if I kind of like step on a bit

of a soapbox, I was a tier one sniper.

Um, I'm part of the group that gets to say
they were the greatest warriors in all.

And I mean that we manage, make,
manipulate, and condition people

to be the greatest detuned warriors
on earth using the most amount

of equipment and technology.

But I can tell you, it wasn't until I
started facing my own shadows that I

really realized what I was preparing for.

Um, and that's the realm
that most people won't go.

So there's like smaller little
micro shadows and wounds.

Then there's what I
call like grand shadows.

Now, these are just like
kind of fun semantic terms.

They don't really, they're deep,
they're deep in our hippocampus and

then every now and then there's people
who do collective or quantum level, um,

archetypal field shadows, and those are
the, the, the great mystics, the great,

Travis Bader: the greatest warriors

Jeff Depatie: of our time and warriors is.

Travis Bader: Interesting that you
use, uh, shadows, um, Who was it?

Not Socrates, the cave,
the cave of shadows.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

Jeff Depatie: And
Socrates, or was it Plato?

Travis Bader: Plato's, Plato's cave.

That's right.

Plato's cave.

Yeah.

So for the people who haven't heard
of Plato's cave, it's a thought

experiment of individuals who are
chained to, they're chained up.

They can only face in one direction.

They have a wall, they're in a cave
and they're looking at the end of

the cave and there's a fire on.

One side, which is casting a light
and there's a bridge, which people

will traverse over with their
animals and carts and carrying

packs and whatever else it is.

And the fire would cast
shadows of these people.

And then these, uh, poor chained up
individuals would be staring at the

wall and only see the shadows and
their entire life of what they know

is a representation of these shadows.

And he talks about what if one of these
guys got away and he took a look and says.

Hold on a second.

Everything that I've been
looking at in life isn't

exactly what I thought it to be.

It's just, it's just a shadow
of what I thought it was.

And he comes back and tries to tell the
others what we're looking at here, guys.

This isn't, this isn't real life.

They'd be angry.

They'd cast them out.

And it was a allegory of.

Essentially in one way to look at
it of education, of learning new

things and how that can separate an
individual from others and be looked

upon perhaps with disdain by those
who are ignorant to those facts.

That's one way of, of
looking at that, but.

When these people, you talk
about shadows, they're looking

at these shadows, they might not
even realize how big a shadow is.

If it encompasses the entire
wall, they don't even know

they're looking at a shadow.

So if you're talking about these massive
shadows, there's going to be things out

there that people might not even be aware
are affecting them that are essentially

taking up that whole wall on them.

Is that something that you've found?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Depatie: Um.

This is actually like my favorite
topics in the world, like, because

one, it's really, it's not easy.

And like I alluded to, we do these things
that we subconsciously, some people

think that we're actually, it's like
preparing for the ultimate dark night,

which is your death, like physical death.

But I don't believe that.

I've easily, and many times in my life,
accepted my physical death, and it was

much easier than accepting my egoic death.

The construct of what I am, the
part that makes me, me, so called,

um, and props up my reality.

And it, it involves
looking at those shadows.

Um, and it's, it's, it's an amazing thing
because what it actually does is it.

You never get rid of fear, but you
learn to like dance with it better.

You learn to remain calm in his presence.

So that's part of what resilience is,
is remaining conscious in adversity.

So most people, like I could use an
example of a buck fever, you know,

boom, their focus narrows and it's
like, literally they're usually looking

through a tube and it's right there
and that's their entire reality.

The thing is though, is if you
can, one of the things I do on my

shooting course is if you open it up.

You know, so like on a, like a hundred
meter shot, it's not such a big deal.

If you've got a scoped 308 or bigger,
it's, you're probably not going

to miss if it's accurately put in
there, but you need all the details.

If you're going to start making a
thousand meter, 2000 meter shot.

Um, and that's, that's just
like in a metaphor for life.

You know what I mean?

Most people don't really know
they're looking through the tube.

So most people, like you said, have
been looking at the shadow and that's

part of the process of waking up,
um, said in a more modern way, but

not like fully modern, uh, Einstein
called it the optical delusion.

Um, where we're brought in, we already
have this thing called epigenetic

programming happening on our DNA that
starts to shape us, but it starts to

shape up our constructs of reality
and how we experience reality.

And it takes a lot of courage.

I don't use the word bravery.

I use the word courage to step into
looking at these things because

usually we're boxed up and we're
all looking at the shadows because

that's what everybody's doing.

He's doing it, she's doing it.

Okay, we're all going to do this.

Okay, let's keep doing this.

Right.

And then we get called insane or weird.

If we turn and we look the other
way and see that it's just people

on a bridge and we've expanded.

Right.

So, um, like I said, that's kind of
part of the, I use the term waking up,

but what it is, is really beginning to
realize you're living a half life that's

gripped by fear and you start to shake
that off your literal nervous system.

Um, and it's stored in our bodies.

Not everybody.

Again, I use like the terms
generally are, you know,

everybody, all that kind of stuff.

Um, but really that my entire work.

That I've been doing is because
it's time people, you know, nobody

else is coming to do this for us.

There is, there's nobody
coming over the hill.

It's us.

And until we individually
begin to hoist aboard this

responsibility, um, yeah, I get it.

It can be, it's a little
frightening, right?

Um, what do I do?

Where do I go?

As we're like struggling just to figure
out purpose or how do I make money or

what do I do, or how do I build skills?

Um, but that's the thing
that's, that's, that's.

We've been proving one, that you can
expand this consciousness on purpose.

Two, Um, we actually counterintuitively,
we use fear to help people induce

higher states of consciousness
because kind of counterintuitively,

a lot of people live in what's called
apathy, you know, they, they probably

drink a few drinks every day, they
go through life exactly the same.

They usually have that stirring in
them and they're like, I want to break

free from it, but I have no clue how.

Um, but surprisingly, when you put them
into a survival situation, it like.

Re orient their attention, right?

Cause that, that's what happens here.

So we talked about the constructs
of reality, but if we look at our

nervous system, you know, they go by
a lot of names, default mode network.

Um, I just was kind of using ego, the
algorithm of ego earlier, but it just,

they want to play out the same and they
want to crystallize and they want to

read, they want to stay structured.

That's that kind of the tendency.

Openness, open node thinking.

Um, Takes that courage because
you have to say, okay, something

I'm doing is not right.

Something I'm doing is not aligned.

Something is not serving me.

And we have to be a little bit selfish
here because if you don't take the time

to look at yourself, you're actually
not going to show up really great for

the rest of the society, but you know,
it behooves me for you to be your full

authentic self, whatever that is, you
know, um, nobody can dictate that because.

You are unique.

I am unique.

I'm not the same as everyone else.

Cellularly on a quantum level
on a fundamental level on what

I've experienced in my life.

Um, so that's, that's why I like, I kind
of like bring it back to when you do turn

away from that wall, that cave, and you
look at the other side of the shadows.

Um, Yeah, you might realize that it's
actually a lot bigger because, um,

both Plato and Socrates realized that
that's why they, they chose to live

life like they were, because it's, it's
this giant moving machine called life.

Right.

Um, but anyhow, um,

Travis Bader: yeah, that's, that's
funny that you talk about fear being

a destabilizer and, um, being used
in a useful way when I was younger.

And even now, to some extent, I guess
I, I still do because I want to make

sure my children know adversity and
they know, um, not to shy away from

challenges or scary situations, but I
would actively seek out situations, which

probably weren't the wisest to somebody
else on the outside, looking at it out.

Um, a family friend was a head of the
police academy here and justice Institute,

police academy here in British Columbia.

And, um, Ended up giving me a rope, which
was decommissioned for that they used to

use for abseiling, but I guess it was end
of life for them, but it was still better

than the rope that I was using when I was
jumping off of bridges, uh, around here

and doing bridge swings or practicing
abseiling or rafting down, almost died a

couple of times, actually, uh, with goofy
little, uh, inflatable rafts of trying to

follow the commercial guys down the, um.

Uh, down the rivers there, but I found
that I would seek those out because

nothing made you feel quite as alive as
when you were in that situation and you

make it through number one and number two.

Um, maybe this is a case
other people have pointed out.

They said, well, perhaps your outside
environment was matching kind of

where your head was at, right?

What was going on in your head?

And.

I would feel an immense calm when
I was in situations like that, as

opposed to the adverse, the inverse,
which would be panicked or, uh,

or, or fearful, fearful, perhaps
prior to going into that situation.

But once in the situation, everything
was normal, everything was great.

Everything was calm.

So it's interesting.

You talk about seeking out fear as a
tool to be able to, uh, to educate.

Jeff Depatie: Yeah.

Um, It's counterintuitive.

It brings us into the present
moment is what it does.

So one of the things, when we
developed our neocortex, we

started thinking into the future.

You know, we, we extrapolate, um, well,
one of the things that happened is we,

we started to let this run away, right?

We add in coordinates, like on everything,
everything has time and space and

it's geometry, you know, everything.

Everything in your room right now, you
know the name of, and it's like, it's

up here and you know, potential futures.

And, and so it can be a lot, right?

Like we talked about the
consciousness feedback loops.

That's an important part of it is being
able to extrapolate into the future.

That's what we do.

We take the past and the present
and we extrapolate into the future.

What we forget to do often though,
is live in the present now.

You know, you use the word feel alive
in that moment, you know, when you're

doing that one, I got to point out,
like, what is it with guys and rope?

Um, I remember being a kid,
like I used to wear rope around.

I was like, well, you know, I'm
hanging off things that it's just like,

why, why is this so important to us?

But anyways, um, but to feel alive
is, is one of the illusions, right?

So again, when I was talking about a few
years ago, when my, uh, when I had to

re begin really rewriting my reality,
really actually for the first time in

my life, talking to Like writing my
story with like my own torch and my

own pen, you know, because I was, I was
free from other people's fear patterns.

I was free from those things.

And I was finally courageous
enough to be like, Hey, I can

do this and I can do this.

I'll be like this.

Um, we have to learn to feel more
alive in all moments, you know,

like we, we, we, we do this.

And cause if we continue to just seek
Novelty and stimulation for the future.

Um, we're kind of like writing checks.

Our bodies can't cash, you know?

Um, but yes, it can destabilize.

So what I say is it alters your state of
consciousness, you know, it shakes you up.

It, uh, sends your nervous system.

What it does is it attempts
to fire a new patterns.

Now this can be very short term.

Um, or it can be very long term.

Um, if you start doing it over a longer
period of time, you'll actually start to

dream differently because what will happen
is like, you're a finely in tune antenna

trying to make its way through this world.

And, um, when you start being gripped
by certain conditioning, it's going

to start looking at different things.

So that's where like the
responsibility of this comes in.

Right.

Um, think like a rite of passage
or something, or whether your kids,

you know, you wouldn't want to.

Ever have it go too far where
they're, you know, permanently

maimed in a negative way.

Right.

You know, so there's always like
a governor on it, especially

once you start looking at the
long term conditioning of it.

Now we do this all the time.

Anyways, you mentioned
it, we do it as parents.

We're, we're.

We're, we're, we bring these lives
into the world and we're conditioning

them from day one and we can, we're,
we're constantly conditioning.

Right.

I think what we need to do a little
bit better is be, and I'm using we,

again, I'm not seeing you necessarily
or me necessarily or anyone, but

we have to be much more intentional
because we have this really cool

effect of impacting our environment
and our environment impacting us.

And I mean, environment, everything,
our cityscapes or our nature.

Um, and we.

That's what, you know, harmony is.

That's what really being in tune with
that is like the road to enlightenment,

understanding all those impacts, but we
have to start being intentional with it.

Otherwise we're just going to
outrun our headlights soon.

And, um, the last thing I wanted to touch
on, you mentioned kind of like the chaotic

world and potentially being a projection
of what's inside of you, you know,

like that's how you're expressing it.

Um, we just never really learn
how to tune that in because

that's exactly what's happening.

If our internal world's
chaotic, we're usually going to

project chaotically outwards.

Now that's, this is no bad or good, you
know, that's a totally moral statement.

It's just, we need to look at that.

Because it probably was once you started
really looking at that, you were like,

okay, I don't need to do it all the time.

You know, why am I chasing this?

Why am I climbing this mountain?

Why am I doing this?

Um, sometimes it's good, right?

You, you mentioned, um, it's good
to step into a stressful situation.

Um, We just have to manage it
well, you know, um, because there's

enough stress going on in life.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

I found that to be one of the
difficult ones because I was always

sort of an all or nothing attitude.

If I'm into something, I'll
go 110 percent into it.

And if I'm deciding not to do it,
well, where's that threshold where

at, at what level do you not do that?

So that was always a difficult
thing for me to kind of manage.

And it's probably something
I'm still working on.

What level of, uh, risk
reward should I be striving.

For a more harmonious
lifestyle over the macro.

Cause in the micro, you can be sitting
on the couch or you could be right

out there in a very risky situation.

But I try and look at it over a larger
scale of how each one of those things

will, will, um, manage themselves and
hopefully in a way that doesn't, uh,

uh, self put myself in a premature,
dark, permanent, permanent dark night.

Yeah,

Jeff Depatie: well, that's, you
know, um, that's the scales, right?

That we're constantly weighing.

That's, that's that
consciousness, um, where.

Um, we tend to dualistically put
the weight on one side or the other.

Right.

And really it's, it's more of a four
or five potentially more, it's much

more dimensionally faceted than that.

Um, and, and it's funny you say like
this, because right now a lot of our

youth is being pressured with the a
hundred percent, go get it attitude.

Especially in the male realm.

And it's like, go get it.

And then they turn and they're like,
okay, I'm going to go get this.

And it's like, they don't even
know where they're projecting that.

No matter how old they are,
they've already been shaped.

And you might be like, that might
be your mom's inadequacy, you know,

your mom's, uh, fear of rejection.

It could be your dad's, whatever,
fill it in with one of their shadows.

And you're actually just turning
it now you're projecting it.

And it's like, you get there, oh, should
I just spend five years doing this thing?

I don't even want, but that's, that's
like the tune up we need, um, right now.

Yeah.

Most, like we talked about,
our constructs are fear based.

They're, they're from a survival mindset.

That's, that's what they're created from.

Uh, we really need to learn to step
into the next stage, which is love.

Um, that gives us a
whole new set of tools.

It's not squishy.

That's for sure.

Love is a very painful teacher.

Um, probably worse than fear.

Fear is like quick.

Usually it's, it's, it's a lot
more precise and where love is.

It can, it can cripple in a
different way, so it's not,

it's not for the faint of heart.

Um, because what will happen is the more
we step into that, the more we're actually

able to feel the other side as well.

Um, and tune into that risk reward,
you know, cause those, those kind

of sit at opposite sides, right?

We risk for the reward
or we reward for risk.

It depends on how you look at it.

Um, but instead of why is
it, why is it that you and I?

Are still talking about things that
Socrates or Plato said, we can go

even older into like the Upanishads
or something from like the Vedics and

India, it's like very similar wisdom.

And it's like, why
aren't we learning this?

And it's because we've kind of shackled
ourselves to this modern world.

Um, and most people just don't even
really see that it can be a very

different, you know, one, it doesn't
have to be fucking zero sum game anymore.

Like that.

It competition's fine and it can be very
healthy and it, and it's part of it.

Right.

But, uh, we need to like slow these
things down or, and the reason

I'm saying this is just so like
full disclosure to the audience.

I was on once upon a time, a very pointy
end of a spear that did things that I

thought were a full service and it wasn't
until later I was like, Oh my God, I'm

just manifesting fear in this universe.

I'm.

Doing something that doesn't
actually serve Canadians as a whole.

It doesn't serve the planet as a whole.

There's little moments within
it that, yeah, this is good.

That, you know, when we say things
like, oh, well, school kids going or

kids going to school in these poor
countries, that's not a good thing.

Of course, you know, the passing
of knowledge is a good thing.

It's just.

What's the end game here?

What are we doing it for?

What's really the underlying
chess pieces that we're moving?

Um, so I do have a little bit of like
grudge in me, um, especially as I

still watch, um, people kind of fall
victim to those services and that's,

that's what happens once we like.

Really tear apart why, you know, cops, for
example, are having such a hard go at it.

It's because at a certain
point, it's not just PTSD.

It's not just the traumas they saw.

It's like, Oh my God, I
was upholding this system.

That's kind of been corrupted.

If you will, or it was
always kind of corrupted.

We're, we're making it a little better.

It's just, um, that gets very hard.

That reality is very difficult
to hoist a board comparatively.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I, I, you know,
never underestimate the human frailty

in all of these large organizations.

I mean, they're all humans,
institutions to begin with, and they're

corruptible by, by greed and power
and ignorance or whatever it might be.

I think a lot of times see, and you
bring up, man, there's so many different

things that I want to talk about, but you
bring up, uh, the PTSD, like in policing.

And I think it's, um, it's Or even
in the military, it's just, uh, the

individual's interpretation of the
events that happened, sort of like that

old Victor Frankl one, you can, one
thing you can't take away from me is

the way I choose to respond to what you
do to me, last of life's great freedoms

is one's ability to choose their own
attitude in any given circumstance.

So being able to choose an attitude,
whether they realize they can

choose that or not, that they have
that level of personal agency.

Um, but then the societal, um,
sort of Expectations that the

individual thinks that are on them.

Um, if you go off to war and you come
back as society hails you as a war hero,

uh, will you have less of a, uh, chance
of getting PTSD than if you came back

from war and everyone looks at you like
you're a war criminal, because maybe the,

uh, the war didn't go the way that, um.

Everybody wanted it to, I had one guest
on here in the past and I said, well, did

you want to talk about your military time?

He's like, yeah, no, I wasn't really on
the right side of history on this one.

I thought I was doing the right thing.

Um, but he was from a different country.

Um, but history unfolded
in a different way.

Maybe we just leave that
one on, on the back burner.

So I wonder if that, um, I guess to
tie back to when you're talking about

love, how a person can actually, uh,
get into that realm and self love or

at least understand where they're at
and, um, whether that's got to come

all internal or if there's external
factors that can, that can lead to that.

Yeah.

Um,

Jeff Depatie: well, one, him saying
he's on the wrong side of history, uh,

I don't know anything about the story,
but I'm going to venture this guess.

I like to think that he has an
opportunity, you know, we all

have a choice on in the moment.

Yeah.

I think it's one of our,
you use the word agency.

I don't think I don't even, I don't
know anybody who has 100 percent agency,

you know, cause we're a collective
and some of that is really good.

You know, we were really strong in
some ways because we're a collective.

Like I said, I think we're a disconnected
collective, but nonetheless, I mean,

we're populating the earth like crazy
and, you know, we do kind of fascinating

things, you know, rockets and we put
mines miles into the ground and we have

neutrino labs so we, we can do some
pretty amazing things collectively.

Um, Transcribed But do we really have
agency like fully, you know, cause from

day one, your patterns are being shaped.

And that's why, you know, the, you asked
the question about childhood and whatnot.

It is so important for people to
understand that, you know, that they're

going to probably project patterns
onto their kids right from the get go.

And then eventually like.

We, we get to this point where you're this
fella or myself, and you ask yourself, I'm

on the wrong side of history, or am I on
the right side of history, or, but anyhow,

I'm over here on this side of something
that I didn't really actually sign up

for, but I didn't know I didn't sign up
for it because I didn't have that agency.

And that's, that's to go
back to PTSD complex beast.

It's a complex beast that started
millions of years ago in every one of us.

And most people have some
level of PTSD sitting in them.

Now, technically PTSD sets in after a
month and your symptoms become an issue.

That's like the kind
of the DSM model of it.

But most people, hint,
everybody is sitting on an

opportunity to resolve something.

Probably many things in their lives.

We call it karma potentially,
you know, small karmic patterns.

Um, but it's, it's the big
ones that sit there and PTSD is

the complete absence of love.

Now, fear and love are not
just words that I juxtapose.

They're, they're innate, they're,
they're on Maslow's hierarchy,

love and belonging is on the, the
hierarchy, you know what I mean?

So wherever it's mostly fear, we find the
absence of love and that's what happens.

PTSD is this deep need for love.

It's a deep need to connect because
usually those people have pushed

everyone away and they're disconnected
from themselves and they don't even

know how to move through life anymore.

Um, so you, you kind of like, you
Touched on, you know, like, how

does one move into that realm?

It would be so nice if you just
wake up and it was like, okay,

I'm just going to love today.

That'd be great.

Right.

Uh, Oh, good.

I'm going to feel joy today.

No problem.

Um, the, the thing is, is we, we
can move more and more towards

that state as our default state.

Most kids, if they're kind of left
to be their own devices and they have

like their survival needs met, like
at a very young age, they'll usually

default to that stage, you know,
they'll play a lot more and whatnot.

Um, But, but some of the signs,
this is for anybody, this is this,

you know, we usually PTSD gets
attached to like service men and

women, uh, much more than everybody.

Uh, but the corporate world is seeing
a massive rise in its issues through

corporate burnout and disconnection,
interpersonal dynamic issues.

And that, that's the,
that's the first sign.

How connected are you?

How like really connected
are you with yourself?

Like really?

Begin to ask yourself, do I
feel my emotional toolbox that

includes things like joy and
peace, like really being peaceful.

Most people haven't decompressed
their nervous system if ever in

their life, like fully, I don't
mean seven day all inclusive.

I mean really decompress
their nervous system.

It takes a long time, um, to slow
down your body and open up your arcs.

It really does.

Um, talking, talking is a very simple
one, you know, but really talking.

So most people talk to.

Defend their opinion.

That's what they do.

If you really start listening,
they're not genuinely trying to get

to the same place as you, they're
trying to defend their opinion.

The reason they want to defend their
opinion is because that's the ego being

like, okay, this is my reality, right?

This is my reality, right?

Okay, I'm good.

Um, and you know, so you kind of get
into sickle, so you have to really

be open to hearing, to really hearing
a new message, um, because I think.

To make sense of reality,
it takes all of us.

You know, like nobody, there might be more
intelligent people out there, but like, we

don't really fucking know what reality is.

You know, you talk to a physicist
at some point, reality runs out.

You talk to any kind of mystic or
religious person or people like

this, isn't me slandering any, and I
think it's all a beautiful pursuit.

It's just like, we don't really
know, you know, we don't, we're.

And we don't really know,
so let's start with that.

And, but together we can, we understand
that we can build these constructs.

So, you know, we really
start to feel that on.

If I understand you more and you
understand me more, well, we can start

to pull that taffy and we can start to
move into that state a little bit more.

Um, look for rigidity in your life.

So, you know, we, we talked about,
we'll use, we'll use the police force.

It's a very rigid world.

It's very rigid, you know, it's got, it's
like code of ethics and it's got the book

that's been written for a thousand years.

And it's like, and then it follows
this thing that we call the law.

And unfortunately, human beings are
not actually like, we don't exist in

black and white and that's what law is.

It's black and white.

So I get it.

People are like, well, but how, how, how?

And it's like, well, we slowly move into
these states of feeling more connected.

Lots of crimes will automatically go away.

When you are connected to someone,
you are way less likely to hurt them

when you're connected to yourself.

You're way less likely
to hurt other people.

It just, what happens is you
expand your consciousness.

You understand the repercussions of
your emotions and your projections

and you start working with them.

Um, big word, use it a few times because
I really like it, but it's courage.

It's courage to be open.

It's courage to be vulnerable.

You know, that's, that's when we go
into the underworld, whether it's like

a heroic undertaking, like a deployment
or, um, kicking down a door or going

on an eight day in the mountains,
sheep hunting, um, we're doing that

conversion, but we understand that we're
becoming vulnerable to that environment.

We train and we practice and we build
skills and tools, but we understand that.

That's why we like doing it.

Um, we have to get a little better.

We are getting good at it, but better at.

That vulnerability, um, I didn't
realize that I wasn't what I

would call a man until I really
learned how to be vulnerable.

And that gave me tools to be a
psychological safe space for those

around me when they need that.

Um, and unfortunately for me,
it took losing everything.

I mean, everything that was important
to me, uh, losing my wife, losing

myself, pushing everything away.

It took all that loss, which.

Now, I, I believe we, there's parts
of this journey we call life that we

have to walk alone, but I definitely
don't think we have to keep learning

certain lessons over and over.

Um, but I think we have to be open.

Um, and the other thing
is, is, is it's natural.

We're given this beautiful
toolbox, um, the spectrum of

emotions, spectrums of feelings.

Um.

We just, we, we forget
a little bit about it.

You know, we forget how to do it.

And we're starting to see it pop up
more and more across the globe, in fact.

Um, but it's going to be stifled.

Like what the hell, man?

Why are we in more at war again?

Like what's going on?

Like we can't have a discussion,
you know, like we, but we have

a society that doesn't want to
let go of their old paradigms.

Um, and it comes up against
another society that doesn't want

to let go of their paradigms.

And I can say this, if you're at war,
you are not open and you are not, you're

not going to like accidentally we evolve
because of war, but we can intentionally

evolve before we get to that point.

Like it's so antiquated and disgusting.

This, this.

It just blows my mind.

Like, I don't get me wrong.

Like for those who are putting themselves
into that position of service, I get it.

I was there once upon a time and
I know the call, you know, that's,

that's, I didn't know how to
be of service of any other way.

It was actually called being of service,
a serviceman, you know what I mean?

So I was like, oh, that's
where I go be of service.

I feel like that's what I want to do.

And it's like, if that layer
of people that kind of like

metaphorically puts down their guns.

Those ones that make most of the
strategic level decisions, very

few people control a lot of things.

And again, it's not
like a demonized thing.

It's like just, that's where
most of the wounded people sit.

Like how much do you need?

You know?

Um, You'll see, it'll start to,
to, to level these things out, but

that goes back to understanding
that we all play our part.

Um, and the first place we
should venture is inwards.

And although it's, it's pretty scary, but
anyways, it's in our nature to want to

love it and it makes us more powerful.

That's the thing.

Um, it literally can
stand down militaries.

You know what I mean?

It changes society for a positive all
the time, whenever it pops up through

the kind of the annals of history.

Um, anyway, so, uh, you know,
we're, we're, we're, that's why

I thanked you at the beginning,
cause I know that indirectly

and directly, like we can go on.

Uh, hunting fishing show and
people are doing it because

that's what we're looking for.

And it's guys like you tugging
on the threads, you know?

Travis Bader: I appreciate that.

Um, you know, and I've, I have some
questions here as well from, uh,

Silvercore club members in the, uh, maybe
I'll get into those in a little bit,

but the, um, yeah, no, you, you raise a
whole bunch of very interesting points.

I'm just trying to formulate
my thoughts on them.

Maybe, maybe I'll just ask this one.

Um, Talking about the number one fear
that individuals have on their death bed.

And I've read this as well.

They've got a, uh, palliative
care nurses will make a list

of what people have to say.

And the number one regret was I
just didn't have the courage to

live the life I wanted to live.

Um, you're saying really about
two years ago, you just started to

come into a better realization as
to the life that you want to live.

Is that a fair assessment?

Jeff Depatie: Okay.

What I would say is about seven years ago
when I met, um, when I met Jess, Jessica

Webster, um, and fell deeply in love.

Uh, I had started having
the stirrings before that.

But yeah, I would say that's when it
really started, but it wasn't until, um,

I swallowed rock bottom smashing into
it that I really fully realized, Oh man,

even though I'd already been doing work,
I'd been like developing performance.

I'd been thinking that I was living
myself out and I was honing myself.

Parts of it.

Yes.

True.

Right.

We, we, we, we have to do.

Experience is a great teacher,
um, but it's also going to like

show us a lot of our, our follies.

Right.

But it takes both.

It takes messing up through experience.

Um, yeah.

And then it was, it was a couple of
years ago that it was like, bam, I'm

like, I have, I actually can have agency.

I just have to really discover
what what's pulling the strings.

You know, what

Travis Bader: did swallowing
rock bottom look like to you?

Jeff Depatie: Um, Well, I suppose
like, if we were to try to like

move it to like a single moment, I
almost jumped off a balcony in Vegas.

Um, I'd never felt anything like that in
my life where it was like, it wasn't a, or

like a, I didn't stop and think about it.

It was just like, I'm doing this.

It was just like this weird
part of my mind was like, Nope.

This is how we're going to like
exercise our last bit of your own

ability was, it was, it was awful.

Um, I started to have
like a breakdown that day.

Um, and, and this is kind of common for
a lot of people, you know, like there's

a lot of these symbols that show up and
I, and I won't throw too many of them out

there, but it, cause it doesn't really
matter because people know, they know

when the system's shutting down and,
uh, Um, that was the beginning of it.

That's why I said, if I was to
pick a moment, it started there.

But like, really it was when I lost
my wife, when she left, um, what

I loved the most in the world, you
know, I only could blame myself.

I can't blame everyone else.

I can't be like, Oh, why didn't
the caveman evolve quicker?

And why didn't my parents, you know, why
did, why couldn't they sort this out?

You know, it wasn't, it was,
I only had myself to blame.

Um, but that gave me this opportunity
to, um, take it, not develop

more shame or guilt with it.

Cause those will just compound it,
but really be like, okay, what do

I want to do moving forward here?

You know?

And that's the thing, you know, we
can feel these lows, um, but it's

when you lose what is most important
to you that that should kick in.

Now I don't believe we have to do that.

Um, but that led to like a lot
of sleepless nights for me.

That led to a lot of soul searching.

That led me to a giant walk about that.

You know, I, I was like, everything's
on the table now, you know, everybody

here can be, you know, that everyone's
a teacher, you know, everyone's there

can be a mentor kind of mentality.

Um, there was nothing I wasn't
willing to try from plant medicine

to like past life, regression,
psychotherapy, analysis, somatic stuff.

Um, That there was nothing that was
off the table because I, for me, I

think that is if you decide there's
a reason most people wait till their

deathbed to be like, you know what?

I was a pussy.

Um, I'm just kidding.

I know it's not funny.

I know it's not funny.

Um, because it's that scary to turn and
be like, okay, I'm going to go this way.

When you decide to not
be that version of you.

And it's scary because people think it's
like you're lighting the temple on fire.

Right.

And it's not really like that.

It's like, I, I, I still know
how to shoot guns really well.

You know what I mean?

I still have a lot of attributes
from being a JTF assault, or I

still have attributes before that,
you know, I can still fly planes.

There's like, there's a
lot of the skill stuff.

And then there's a lot of your
experience that is actually good.

It's like, um, it's not.

A full on got a, you know, but it feels
like a full rebuild from the bottom

up, because that's where we got to find
the, the, the chinks in the mortar.

Right.

That's from that bottom up.

And, uh, usually I'm, I was kind of
lucky because, you know, um, I had

financial support and I didn't have
kids and I can only imagine, cause I

know this happens to guys and gals.

They get into the same sticky
situation, but then it's like, well,

I have to keep going to this job.

I hate, I have to keep doing these things
because I got a little mouse to feed.

You know what I mean?

And it's such a sad thing because if
we had better real support systems

for it, because I think people
should be rewarded for this journey.

If the medic, like on the other
side of this, I'm healthier, you

know, I've, I've tended to wounds.

I'm less of a burden on society.

Yeah.

Literally, you know, I'm less likely
to need to go to the hospital.

I'm less likely to burn out.

I'm much better at
interacting with people.

So people should be rewarded
on the other side of this

journey, because it's perilous.

It's, it's perilous.

Um, that's why, again, people wait till
their deathbed to be like, you know,

maybe I should have did it differently,
but we can, we can do it differently.

Um, and we're so lucky now
because we have podcasts, we have

the internet to start looking.

Now, like I said earlier, there's
still a lot of people who like to,

you know, dress up the peg if you
will, or whatever, you know, and make

it shiny and like reuse the, the,
the quote from the Roman emperor.

And you know what I mean?

Like all that kind of stuff.

And it's like, that's good, which
is really start to tune into it.

Because what happens is you be, it's like.

Like I said, most people can really talk
about how they sense reality through their

senses, but we have other senses that
we're able to start tapping into where our

body knows things like it literally knows,
Oh, I should go that way or not that way.

Now I'm using kind of like a direction
just as like an easy metaphor, but it's

like, it really knows like, don't do this.

Don't do this.

Like a lot of people,
like, uh, an example.

Um, everybody's heard this a long time.

People were like, yeah, I should
have quit drinking five years ago.

I wanted to quit drinking five years ago.

It's like, well, why
are you still drinking?

You know, it's like your body
knows, you know, even your mind

knows, but it's a wall, you know,
pressures and this and patterns and

whatnot, that happens all the time.

And, um, a lot of people want
to build, but most of what

we have to do is tear down.

Um, once you tear down, burn
off the droves, um, then you're

actually really free because
then you can look at your values.

You can say for the first time
in your life, I have a better

idea of what my values are.

They're not perfect because we're humans.

We're not meant to be perfect.

That's our existence to help complexify
the universe is through imperfection.

Um, but that value, yeah, that's not mine.

That was my mom's.

Oh, that value.

No, that was.

Uh, and You know, that was school's value.

Okay.

These aren't actually my values.

Now, generally when someone has well
thought out values, they overlap

very well with the rest of the world.

They look different, but my value
set is probably not going to detract

from your authentic value set.

They're usually nurturing like that.

They can be divergent,
but they're nurturing.

Um, and once you have that, You can
start to look at the input outputs

that you do to nurture those.

And when I say input outputs, I literally
mean, okay, to live a healthy existence.

I have to put good food and water
and air in my body, you know, input

outputs, the relationships that
are around me, what you action.

And then, you know, because we
are, um, cerebral, our inputs

can be from inside too, right?

A lot of people have negative self talk.

It's like, well, where the
fuck did that come from?

You know, like, um, but.

I, I, why do I say that about myself?

You know, but okay, that's an input.

You're actually inputting into
the feedback loops, right?

Okay.

I can say that better about myself.

We call it language tech where
you readjust your language.

It's not just, you know, sports psychology
or it's, it's access to your own joy

as well, um, through these means.

Eckhart

Travis Bader: Tolle talked about
wanting to take his own life.

And instead of following through,
he experienced essentially a, uh,

metaphysical death of his ego.

Um, And then he started his journey
from there in a, in a similar way, it

sounds like where your journey started,
was there a bit of a death, ego death?

Did you feel that happening there?

Um, and of all the modalities
that you, uh, endeavored down

afterwards, which ones did you find
the most beneficial to yourself?

Jeff Depatie: I think.

This is just totally anecdotal, but I
think this is accurate in evolution.

If we look, if we accept that, whether,
you know, God created the world and the

universe or evolution or the matrix, it
looks like it likes to build on itself.

You know, it looks like it liked hydrogen.

So then it like formed helium and
then it looked like those became long

peptides and you know what I mean?

And it looks like.

That's what I, when I say
complexification, that's

what I'm talking about.

The universe liked creating like that
again, doesn't matter where it comes from.

If we just accept that it adds to that
complexity, it likes to build on itself.

And I think one of the things it did is it
took the sensation of physical death being

scared of like Like not scared because
the body's actually not scared of death.

Like the body itself is not scared of
death, but it wants to avoid death.

You know, the emotion of scared that's
a, that's, that's where we'll get to.

Um, but that emotion of avoiding death and
then our psychology got built on top of

that, you know, our upper, probably higher
limbic system and then past the basal.

Um, um, not the basal ganglia.

Um, uh, I can't remember.

Anyways, into our newer systems
are like kind of neocortex.

So we get confused.

Um, the ego wants to die, but
it feels like physical death.

And so we equate that
to feeling like suicide.

Cause as I tore it apart more,
I realized like, I didn't

really actually want to die.

I just wanted that version of me to die.

And that's like the, I had
to go to battle with that.

And that showed up in many ways, you know,
it showed up in my journal, it showed

up in my dreams and things like that.

Um, and you know, for those who are
listening, they might not like feel this.

It actually led to me being
much more stable in my life.

These destabilizations, a lot of people
want to like remain rigid because they

don't want to be seen as unstable.

And it's like, well.

Sometimes we're stable.

Sometimes we're unstable, man.

That's, that's the idea of community,
you know, that's how life is.

And yeah, okay.

You know, dad or mom can't do it as
much, but you still got to dig into it.

So I think when the ego is like, Oh,
it's time to die, or I'm not going

to live out my full expression.

Um, it can feel like physical death
and it very much is like that.

And I would say that the strongest
modality that led to that, um,

Um, was my experimentation.

I say experimentation, but I worked
with professional shaman, um, medicine

people was with ayahuasca or what I call
Dime, which is just a variant of it.

And Bufalovirus.

And it was not like just one time.

You have to learn how
to like work with these.

Your body has to learn how to process.

Just like I said, we have to
relearn how to have emotions.

We have to learn how to have visual
experiences and we have to learn how

to, um, grab the marrow from that.

I.

You can't really explain it in a way,
because it's one, it's very personal,

especially like a, an ayahuasca is
very, it's you, you know, it's like

your, everything you couldn't face and
everything you feel living out, like in a

dream state, you know, um, But then when
it came, so like I'd sat with that and

then I used something called combo, which
is like, it's an amazing, it's a miracle.

It's one of the last
miracles on earth for sure.

But it's a, it's, it's not a
hallucinogen, uh, hallucinogenic.

It's, uh, it's much more like a
traditional medicine, but like

awful, awful, it's awful, but
it purges your lymphatic system.

It purges your body.

Physiologically and psychologically,
and using these things along with other

techniques, simple techniques of self
expression and, uh, reading, you know,

the more traditional ways of finding
yourself adversity, not putting myself

into adversity, learning how to do
that, you know, being like, am I just

doing this to numb myself, these things.

Um, Bufo, that was like, The term
ego death gets used a lot with plant

medicines, but for me, it was with Bufo
that I had the truest ego death and it

just basically felt like all my system
shut off, but I still had like a backseat

of consciousness, the last little bit.

Um, and that's where, when people
try to describe it, they're really

trying to describe what's called, I
call undifferentiated consciousness.

So right now there's an illusion that
you and I are separate, you know, through

time and space, those are, those are left
brain constructs, but we're not separate

literally energetically atomically.

Cause we're on earth and there's
a bunch of atoms around us.

We're not separated.

We're we're it's all connected.

Quantum link tangled.

And so we're connected on like fundamental
levels and then subfundamental on a

quantum level exactly, and potentially
even smaller levels than that, but

also on bigger levels, you know,
we like to use the reductionist

approach on a cosmological level.

We're all spinning around
this thing together.

Um, Um, but it's like, it's like almost
like your senses kind of shut down,

but you're still existent in a way.

And I think that's like where people
have near death experiences because I've

had them and it's very similar, uh, the
way it feels, the way it looks, it just

looks like pure energy, but it looks
like you're kind of in that pure energy.

Um, and people have tried to describe
that as, you know, kneeling before God.

That's how like.

It depends on who I'm having
the conversation with.

You know, if I was having
it with a Christian, I would

say kneeling before God.

Um, if I was talking to a physicist, I
would say something like exactly, I was

perceiving the snapshot of like quantum
energy without any differentiation,

without my senses put on it.

Um, and I would say that was by far,
people have been using this stuff

to have ego deaths for a long time
in, in certain tribal societies.

They'll use it through a child's life.

They'll start to, they'll
start to like, Oh, you know,

whatever they call their kids.

A little is starting to show ego
issues and they'll use that to

help break that cycle early on.

Interesting.

Cause what happens is no matter what,
we're going to get in patterns where

we get locked up in fear a little bit.

It's called survival and we got to
go into survival sometimes, but the

key is to move back out of that.

Take the lesson because that like
we talked about risk and reward.

That's what it's about.

It's about how do we bring
back the reward, right?

I mean, we're really good at
the risk and keeping our nervous

system to the floor in the West.

Um, but they'll start using it very
early on where us, uh, most people

don't have access to therapies and
things like that throughout their life.

So we get to a point where it's
like the system is jank and broken.

All the way over here, you
know, 35, 40 years later.

So there's a lot more undoing, a lot more
revisiting, you know, the onion is like

got a lot of layers, um, at this point.

So I would say that I would say, um,

for me, real wild nature, just
getting to be in that presence.

Like.

It almost like it re shows me how to
just be in that place, you know, um,

where you're kind of absorbing the
small and also the macro and you know,

When we're in real, like it's, it's
kind of hard to find totally untapped

nature now, because you got jets
dropping, um, exhaust fumes everywhere.

We got a 5g and all kinds of
radioactive or not radioactive

radio signals everywhere.

So it's very hard to be fully
untouched, but the more you can.

Um, there's a theory called, you know,
it's the Schumann resonance, which is

mathematically provable, but it's kind of
like the pulse of the earth and the closer

you can move yourself to vibrating at
that resonance, you'll feel more in peace.

Um, you'll make better decisions.

So what happens is like the, what
I like to do is I like to try to

move to that state and then I'll.

Reassess things in my own life.

And then I also look at
like, what do I want to do?

So like I call it life's work when
I'm learning these lessons, how

I implement them into the world.

I call that life's work.

Um, not purpose.

I think everyone's purpose is the same.

They should interest.

Your purpose is to build yourself
up authentically and vibrate at

your best possible potential.

Um, but how do I want to bring
this back into the world because

got to be careful, right?

I'm a human being and I filter my reality
through all my filtration systems.

Um, so that's where you
consciously bring it back.

Um, yeah, so I would, I would say natural
plant medicine is like probably the

single greatest, but the thing is, is
these are, these are tools that are, um,

Best use in tandem with other things.

Um, like

Travis Bader: talk therapy or

Jeff Depatie: like, yeah.

And, and, you know, this is not
to like put a slight against talk

therapy, but just talking is enough.

So when we did the documentary dark night
of our soul, every single intervention

basically started with one of two things.

It started prefrontal cortex
saying like, I'm going to do this.

Um, but.

Almost everything involved
another human being.

The first step to talk therapy
is actually talking to someone.

The first step to ketamine
therapy is talking to someone.

The first step to plant medicine is
talking to some, the first step to going

and doing surf therapy, like you're
interacting with another human because now

you're reconnecting where we have so much
of our brain is designed to connect with

other humans, and if we're not doing that.

Like fully, um, well, it's just, it's
atrofying and it probably feels like

an insanity, like a true insanity.

Travis Bader: It's interesting.

You talk about the matrix there,
a friend of mine, Sean Taylor, we

spoke with him, spoke about him.

Uh, offline here, but he, prior to, uh,
joint task force, we called JTF2, I think

he calls himself a plank holder, who
is one of the original people on there.

Um, we're supposed to be recording
an episode either on the Silvercore

podcast or on another friend's
podcast, uh, talking about his

thoughts and our thoughts about
do we live in the matrix or not?

Cause it's something he brings up
and toys around with a fair bit.

Arr!

You experiencing the universe through
yourself, Jeff, or is the universe

experiencing itself through you?

What are your thoughts?

Jeff Depatie: I think when we look at
human truth, it's always a paradox,

which means it's always both.

So yes, the universe is.

I'm literally here to evolve the universe.

I know that sounds like
God level work, but it is.

We're all part of God.

We're all part of the universe.

We're all part of the matrix.

There's a real responsibility
to being human.

It's not just.

They come and kick it,
you know what I mean?

Hang out, get drunk and
whatever and do nothing.

Um, it's, it's to, it's to take these
wounds, these shadows, these hard

earned lessons through risk and reward
and develop it more and more and more.

That's the thing right now.

A lot of people don't really see that
if we do this, we're going to evolve.

Um, but I am also experiencing it.

Now I mentioned
undifferentiated consciousness.

I don't really putting an equal sign
or a zero is a human thing to do.

There is nowhere in the
universe where there is nothing.

Nothing doesn't exist
everywhere in the universe.

There is neutrinos and there's light.

We just don't see it because it's
not reflecting off everything.

There's quantum entangled energies.

There's there's zero is
a construct of mankind.

So even saying universe through me
or me through universe is like kind

of putting an equal sign or a zero.

It's just one paradoxical event happening.

But I do believe that we are.

An evolution of that, like, um, of it
trying to push through and potentially.

It wants to see itself, you know, like
how, like some people say, like, it's

like kind of like a really, uh, not
Hindu, what kind of like, uh, a true

Tantra, like if we not, not Tantric,
like, like the West likes to think of

it, but like a two true Tantra system
or something, or like a real, like, um,

certain aspects of Buddhism or whatnot.

Um, trying to say that it's
like trying to see itself.

I just think that we're actually,
that's why I like when people are

like, ah, I'm born in the wrong time.

I'm like, no man, this is the best time
because consciousness is wanting to

evolve here and you're a part of it.

Like any time, once you like kind of
look at reality like that, because I

mentioned about input outputs and then I
mentioned about values, there's one more

I put up there and that's your belief.

So like, just kind of
like generally my belief.

So what I've learned is that the universe
has a tendency towards complexity

and that we play our role in that.

I won't pretend to really know what our
role is fully, but I do take it on as

a responsibility to aid the universe.

Cause, cause humans can
create the universe.

You know, they might say it made this
water bottle, but humans form that.

We formed it.

We can form like that.

Now we just.

Um, when we project from a place
of love, we will form differently.

And when we do that, our
minds will expand even more.

Um, and think about it.

If we can think on another
level, like even 0.

5 percent more, that's like the
difference between humans and chimps.

We will think on levels that we can't
even imagine right now and create

in ways that we can't even imagine.

Um, I think when I think of the matrix,
like the literal matrix more, I think

of our systems, I think of the illusion,
you know, The Maya, it goes by a lot of

names, um, that is cast over us and that
we're pressed into, and it makes sense.

Like these are actually old systems,
you know, like we've been developing

monetary systems for a long time and
the systems that it works around.

And it's like, it's high time.

Like we realized that.

We're not trying to vilify these things.

It's just like, it's time
for them to grow, you know?

And in that, yeah, I believe many, many,
most of the people on earth are either

trapped in the matrix, uh, at some level
where they're either repressing people

from growing or repressing themselves or
propping up other people, um, in a, in

a negative light, um, because, um, Well,
it's, it's getting more and more obvious.

That's one of the cool
things about technology.

Uh, but that's also the scary thing.

Now we've like unleashed AI, the
builders of AI have put their human

essence into it and we've unleashed
it in social medias and whatnot.

And it's like, it doesn't really
know it's only going to project

from that level of consciousness.

It'll do it in ways that we can't
even imagine, but it only ever

project from that level of conscience.

That's why we have to be more deliberate
with what we're putting in there.

Otherwise.

We are literally casting the net more and
more physiologically, like physically,

you know, with satellites and whatnot,
we could like trap ourselves here on

earth literally, which would be crazy.

Um, but also psychologically we're
tightening the net instead of actually

like letting expansion happen.

Um, So, yeah, I, I don't really
differentiate myself separate from the

universe, uh, but that's not to say I'm
like, I walk around like, Oh, I'm God.

You know what I mean?

I'm, I'm, I'm still consciousness in
human form, um, but no different really

than a rock, you know, just, I have.

Access to higher levels of consciousness.

I have more feedback loops
that I can interact with.

Therefore, my responsibility is
a little higher than the rocks.

You know, the rock is responsible to
hang out with gravity and the wind and

whatnot, you know, changes and erodes
and we have tectonic plates and it does

shift and it is part of the evolution.

Um, I just have a little bit bigger part.

Um, so yeah.

Travis Bader: So one thing I'm not
really doing too well is talking about

JTF2 and all the clickbait stuff that's
going to get everybody to want to, uh,

to, uh, to click and get it out through
YouTube and everything else, because,

uh, they quickly transitioned the
second you said, this is one of my most

favorite things to talk about the world.

I'm like, I like to talk about this.

Let's talk about it.

Uh, did you want JTF2 a little bit?

Jeff Depatie: Sure.

Yeah.

My, uh, um.

There was a part of my life where I, I,
I was like, ah, I don't really want to

be around that world, but I can't, I,
I, it was an exceptional, exceptional

learning experience in my life.

And I got to be around
people of a certain caliber.

Um, I've changed what my values are,
so it doesn't align up the same way.

But, you know, as far as like a
profession goes, it's amazing.

Like you get to see and do things
that you just can't believe.

Um, Like going through selection and
those courses taught me so much about

human conditioning, my own conditioning,
taught me so much about myself, even

though some of the lessons didn't come
till years later, um, on the other side.

Uh, and, you know, as far as what it
is as a An op, um, a special forces

unit, a tier one special forces unit.

Canadian should feel
really quite proud of that.

You know, I'm not, I don't really love
using the word pride because it kind

of isolates and everything outside.

But I do feel like if that's
what you're looking at, apples

to apples, it's a great unit.

It's, you know, it has
amazing men and women there.

Um, and again, like I was saying, the
projection of it, I might not agree

with, but we still do incredible things,
you know, pull off incredible missions.

And, um, yeah, it was, uh, it was
something, it was, it was something I'm

still like, I haven't fully processed
what it is, you know, better part of a

decade and, you know, you see, and you
do things and it's, I I'm, I don't know.

I'm kind of analytical.

I'm trying to be less analytical
when I say analytical.

I just like to look at things.

I like to let them move around.

You know, I use the word
contemplation for it.

I don't like try to
categorize or label so much.

It's just like, what was it to me?

What did it mean to me?

How did it lead me here?

Um, And it gave me some
great, great skills.

You know, we talked
about ultra long range.

Um, I just ran my first in person
shooting course, which the guys loved.

Um, but I, I wouldn't have been
able to do any of that, um, without

that, that education and I'm able
to put together two amazing things.

One, I believe that, uh, I think shooting
is being way over vilified right now.

And I think it's.

Um, it's like, it's like a sport.

Let's just look at it like a sport.

You know, um, I've never seen a
gun just get up and kill someone.

Um, and if we take away guns, people will
still kill people and they'll, they'll,

they'll try to like throw stats around.

Oh, no, it's not going to happen.

It's like, it's the
underlying consciousness.

That's the problem.

It's not the gun.

Um, I also think that.

In this world today,
there is a lot of cowards.

There is a lot of scared, scared people.

I mean, scared.

They don't really even
know how scared they are.

They can't even, they're so scared.

They don't even know they're scared.

You know, they're, they're, they're,
they're caught in augmented survival.

And I think, um, men or women, um, but
I'll just use men as an example, knowing

how to defend themselves if they ever
need to, which is probably never, but

just knowing that you can be strong.

Yeah.

And have strength in a moment when
needed or called upon, um, is something,

you know, there's something to be said
about that, even if it's, it's a kind

of like that old kind of like Kung Fu
mentality, you know, I learned it, so

I never need to use it kind of thing.

Right.

Um, it's like that, right.

Um, I also think that.

Although I don't do it,
I, I probably should.

I think there's something really cool
as long as it's managed properly,

which is getting tougher, um,
to go harvest your own meat, you

know, to have real natural meat.

Um, I'm a big fan of that.

And, uh, so none of that would have been
possible without like that education

and what I like to fold into it.

Is the human dynamics part of it.

The using it as a vessel to help expand
consciousness, to make people more

aware of themselves, uh, more aware
of what's going on inside of them.

What I call it in the shooting,
what I've labeled it an ultra is

what I call cognitive ballistics.

So you have terminal ballistics.

That's what happens at the target.

You have.

External, you have transitional rate
at the muzzle internal, and then

you have cognitive ballistics and
cognitive ballistics is actually

the most important part of it.

Um, because it's the part that assesses
everything around it, you know, all the

environmental, all the atmospherics,
what you want to do, what's behind it.

What's this over here?

How am I going to be distracted?

Am I tired?

How do I check in?

Am I comfortable?

Is the shock good that build up
like, you know, I mean, there's

so many different things when
you're weighing the math of a shot.

Um, but also below that
shot sits a lot of things.

Um, and you can see it in like
PRS style shooting where, you

know, you let stress creep in.

You know, we see this in sports,
that's where they manage stress.

So it's such an important thing
because it's, it's a filter, it's

an unconscious filter to the sensory
input that you're getting and the

less clogged that filter is, uh, the
better it can absorb its environment.

Um, if you wanted to ask me anything in
particular, because I don't really know

where to go when it comes to the unit.

Travis Bader: It's interesting to
talk about cognitive ballistics,

um, did a couple parts series
with, was it six time or seven time

national service rifle champion.

Sorry, Ryan, if I got that one wrong,
um, Ryan Stacey, and he attributes his

success to mental marksmanship and.

The, the process essentially, it
sounds similar to the cognitive

ballistics, but the, the mental
process behind every single shot and

each shot should be subconscious.

And, uh, it's proven quite effective
for him prior to service rifle or

politics, making that, uh, unattainable
for anyone outside of the military now.

Um, interesting.

I think there's a whole thing
that can be talked on that,

but specifically to, uh, JTF2.

Um.

Right now, the longest distance,
uh, record kill is what, three,

three and a half kilometers, 3.

44 kilometers.

I think it was around there, uh,
attributed to an unnamed soldier.

I don't know if that
soldier was ever named.

Was that soldier ever named?

No, no, but I think you were
present around at that time

when, um, when it happened.

Yeah,

Jeff Depatie: I, I, I was in the unit.

Yes.

Yep.

Yeah.

Um, Yeah, anything in
particular you want to ask, or?

Travis Bader: Yeah, um...

What, um, I think I saw a video
footage of that one, because

that one was caught on video.

Wasn't it?

I think it was, unless it

Jeff Depatie: was a fake YouTube thing.

No, no.

What I would like to do is I'd just
like to back up to just one thing,

just to like put a cap or cross
the Ts on the last conversation.

You mentioned, uh,
subconscious like drills.

You were saying that everything
should be subconscious in the shot.

There's parts that, yes.

So.

You build the shot, right?

And ideally, you know, you put the
shot in a vice and everything's

the same over and over and over.

So the, the gun, the action never moves.

It's the same bullet all the way
down to the atomic level, always

the same exact atomic powder loads,
and then no atmospherics, right?

But then we add in atmospherics,
we add in a different target,

we add in different distances.

We add in the gun is not in
the same position, right?

So you're constantly calibrating those.

So it's.

Uh, in the unit, we worked with something
called principles versus drills.

So you try to drill and skill
everything, but then if you keep it a

principle, you remains more flexible.

Um, it filters through your
mind a little bit differently.

Um, so I, I agree with the
statement, but just like we talked

about, usually, uh, it's a yes.

And now to go to this shot, the reason I
wanted to put a cap on that is in order to

start making these kinds of distant shots.

Um, they're not going to be the
same every time you can imagine

over 10 seconds of flight time.

That bullet is going
through multiple wins.

Depending on like, which way you're facing
the target, like if it's east, west,

like the target's actually moving, the
speed of the earth is rotating so fast

that you're like curving it that way.

So not only is there one arc you
got to deal with, there's a second

arc and then there's spin on the
bullet, which puts in another arc

that you got to compensate for.

So there's all these arcs that you got to
compensate for that are changing, right.

And different, different
throughout the whole flight.

Um, I was in the unit at the time.

Uh, I didn't do that shot.

Um, I w I was in the sniper troop.

Uh, I did see it.

There is videos of course, which is crazy
because normally there isn't videos.

So it was just like amazing
happenstance that the recce team that

was there captured the shot as well.

Um, there is another fantastic shot that's
made mate that was made that day too.

Um, but it hasn't been released
and I won't go into that.

Um, I'm sure.

Uh, someday the person will be named.

Um, I do know that there's a couple of
technicalities around that, if you will.

Um, but either way, I think, um, it's
a testament to how amazing JTF2 sniper

program is second to none in the world.

Um, and that's like, that's just fact.

It is the gold standard when it comes
to putting a bullet long range, it's

no better anywhere else in the world.

And I think that that shot might be
the longest shot ever in history for

a projectile fired from a shoulder.

Really?

Um,

Travis Bader: just everything
lined up just so well, right

Jeff Depatie: then.

So it's with a 50 cal, okay.

Is the first thing.

You know, we're starting again,
some rounds that are like a 0.

375 enabler round and stuff like that.

It's not quite as like big or
punchy as a 50 Cal, but our

shoulder can only take so much.

Right.

So now we might be able to build guns
that are kind of mounted that can shoot

farther, but from the shoulder, we're
starting to run out of how far we can

flick a bullet through time and space.

So there's that, uh, two, when it comes
to like, you know, Like in this case,

shooting a human being, there are so
many factors that have to line up.

That person has to be in that situation.

You know what I mean?

And like, just think about how much
people move around, you know, like,

Like just, just movement of people
in general to be in that one space.

Um, so not only does the sniper have to
be in that position, but the person has

to be in that position, you know, like
if you think about hunting, very not,

you know, you can put out a salt lick
for a deer, you can bait a beer, a bear

and that's bait a beer and that's, uh,
maybe have a beer with, um, you know, you

kind of, you're controlling that and then
you might be in a blind or something.

So you're controlling those two things.

Um, but with people.

It's a little trickier, you know,
especially when you're nice is you

can't just put out a, a salt lick.

Um, so to have that just set up just
literally that time and space, that

person and that target in that space,
let alone that kind of distance.

And then the, the amount of skill it
takes to make that shot, you know, now

we're starting to get, when you look at.

The adjustment in mills, or, well,
we will use mills instead of MOA.

Sure.

Like it's massive.

Mm-Hmm.

feet become almost full mills
of adjustment at that distance.

Mm-Hmm.

like the arc is so high, you
know, um, that optics start to

run out even though we have like
periscopes and stuff like that.

And we've got some pretty
big powerful things.

Um, optics are starting to get.

They won't be the limiting factor compared
to other things, but they're starting

to get pushed to their limits as well.

You know what I mean?

Like again, now we might build this big
machine mounted gun with like a telescope

on top and whatnot, but it's like, is
this a completely different beast now?

You know, where you fire it by
a button instead of a trigger.

Um, So as far as like a man or woman, uh,
making like a record kill, I just don't

see it being broken and then let alone,
it'll never be on video like that again.

Like the, just like the stars
to align like that, um, it's

pretty, pretty, pretty insane.

Travis Bader: 10 seconds.

Like, if I think about that, let me look
at my watch one, 1000, two, 1000, three,

1000, four, 1000, five, six, seven.

Eight, nine, and there it is.

And if people listening here are like, Oh
my God, why does he count in 10 seconds?

Get on with the next point.

That's a long time.

People think, Oh, it's
just a couple of seconds.

10 seconds is a long time.

Jeff Depatie: Yeah.

Like, so like your target can't
move in that, you know, like there's

just like all kinds of factors.

It's, it's pretty like, I don't
want to like make shooting

another human a miracle.

It was an ISIS dude and they're
about as bad as it gets.

Um, but it's like, kind of
like a miracle, you know?

Travis Bader: Mm hmm.

I've got a, uh, a couple of questions
here from, uh, Silvercore club members.

What was the most challenging moral
dilemma you faced during your time?

With the joint task force
and how did you navigate it?

Jeff Depatie: Hmm.

In JTF two, I don't feel, to be
honest with you, I don't feel like I

was put in a position of deep moral
dilemma, uh, in the regular Army I was.

But in JTF two, I didn't ever feel in
deep moral dilemma, except when it came

to the part where I started to, my values
started to change compared to the units.

Hmm.

Um.

Where I had to realize, okay,
my don't align with that.

If I am put into certain situations,
my morals might not line up, but I,

that's when I was exiting the unit.

So that wasn't an issue.

Um, by and large, I say this
with a hand on my heart, uh, most

Canadian men and women in uniform.

Um, you know, we've had people
mess up for, for certain.

When I think about ethics,
and I'll use the word ethics

is kind of like morals land.

And we call these laws and rules and rules
of engagement and all kinds of things.

And that's, that's what I'll call that.

Um, In the unit, I didn't feel like
my morals had to diverge from that.

Um, I don't think ever really.

I think there was.

There was like some smaller moments,
but nothing where I felt like,

Oh, I'm sacrificing something.

I'm about to do something,
um, that I don't want to do.

Canada is pretty good about that.

We're, we're, we're a modern
military, you know, with volunteers.

And I, I just don't think
they need to do that.

There was stuff and it's not my
place to speak about it because

it's a little bit of dirty laundry.

Um, and I do appreciate the question.

Um, cause I think.

A lot of people now more than ever
are kind of looking at the military

and being like, I don't know if I line
up with that because we're starting

to see the bigger picture, right?

We're starting to see that
these might destabilize things.

I get that a lot from the young guys
where, you know, they're worried

about giving up time with family
and all these smaller things.

Those are actually moral dilemmas
because they're like, oh, I love

this, but I have to give this up.

I love this and I have to get this up.

Um, so they start weighing out the
compromises, but not in the unit.

I never.

It's a, it's a testament to, um,
it's ethos and what it believes in.

Travis Bader: Another one in a might
align with the other one, last question.

Can you describe a specific mission
or operation that fundamentally

changed your understanding of
warfare and its consequences?

Jeff Depatie: Um, uh, every deployment
changes your perspective of warfare.

Um,

I think being deployed in Iraq really
was a bit of a, here's the thing,

I've mentioned being on the pointy end
of the spear that I didn't want to be on.

And that it became very obvious,
very quickly, the cloak and

dagger of why we are there.

And this isn't like so much at the
unit level, cause the unit is the unit

and it's employed by the government.

You know, but it became very obvious
that we were, what the bigger purpose

we served was the very first things
that were secured were oil fields, you

know, it was less about human lives.

Now we try to do our best with both.

Um, But those, those, instead of like
us actually in the world, trying to

resolve the underlying nature of why
we're doing these things, how we go

and we do these things, um, so that,
that was, that was tricky, but I could

say that about any deployment anywhere
where, you know, you sometimes get, you

have to make the best of what you got.

And then hope that there's
some kind of benefit.

But that's, that's why I said, that's
why I left the military, because I

felt like overall I was being more, I
was bringing more fear into the world,

more destabilization, um, as opposed to
actually adjusting the issues below this.

Um, and then there's a part of me, to
be honest with you, Trav, I'm, I'm just

not going to air out any dirty laundry.

Um, there's certain stories that aren't
mine to tell, and they're so, they're,

they're what we call context heavy.

If you don't actually know the context,
like it could seem like, you know, there

was a guy, he, uh, when I was in the
regular army, very early on, uh, first

appointment, um, he shot a kid, you know,
and by the rules, he could light that

kid up all day by the rules, but then
he shot a kid, you know what I mean?

Like a lot of people don't know that,
uh, One, the context of the, that's

kind of situation to put someone in a
position where they're going to have

to shoot a kid, let alone the weight of
now knowing I just shot a kid, you know,

cause, and again, he was fully justified.

All the signs pointed to yes, but it
was like, the situation is so context

heavy that, you know, we would have
to have like a whole episode around

something to really get to the root
of, of some of these questions.

I think they're great questions.

I just, um, And it's his story, that one.

And it's his story.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: Here's an easier one.

What are those tattoos on your right arm?

Jeff Depatie: My right
arm, like this one here.

There you go.

Yeah.

So I have, those are ruins, a
combination of German and Norma.

They're more like hieroglyphs, uh, as
opposed to what we'd call letters, uh,

and they're all different forms of love.

Um, I said this very early on the
greatest warriors in the world will

bring more love into the world because
it's the hardest thing to do right now.

Um, and it kind of goes from like
simple, like a man, how a man would love

a man, but like, think like a, like a
brother, a father and a son, not like

so much, not sexual orientation all the
way up through like companionship or

warriorship or love of the home, love of
what we call eternal love, which is like.

Love of the universe, right?

The, the blanket that is kind of
God or, you know, the nature has

for us, um, on this arm, I have
what are called gene keys and that's

my, um, the image for my business,
which is the SFE, uh, which stands

for self transcendence for everyone.

Um, and these are a
representation of myself.

Um, I won't take off my shirt and
show you the last one, but I have to

mention it because I, I just got it.

Uh, it's up on my bicep, but it, uh,
it's, it's, uh, it's a kind of in a

tribal form, but it says respect love.

Um, and I think most people don't know
how to really respect love right now.

Uh, and it's a, it's a, it's almost
an urgency to me because I want to

be around people who understand.

What it means more.

And I think more people than ever
really want to, they want to feel love.

Um, and we disrespect it all the time.

We shove it aside because
I'm too busy or whatnot.

Um, and like I said, I lost my
love and I lost it because I didn't

really know how to respect it.

Now there's all kinds of factors in that.

But at the end of the day, you
know, I'm the one running this

meat suit and I didn't respect it.

And, um, yeah, uh, this one here, the one
that was asked about on my right arm, um,

that was after a plant medicine ceremony
in Costa Rica, where it was like, it just

the obviousness of how connected we are.

Um, and how important is the, this
word is four letter word that kind

of encompasses so much is to me.

Um, yeah.

So thanks for asking.

Travis Bader: Now you talked about Jess
previously as being a force multiplier.

And I love that term.

Um, one of the questions that came
up was what do you feel are important

attributes to a successful marriage?

Jeff Depatie: Successful marriage.

Okay.

A lot of people will
use this word, honesty.

Yeah.

Right?

It's almost like a no brainer.

Be honest in your relationship,
but there's a secret.

Most people are dishonest and it's not
because they're trying to be dishonest.

It's because they don't
fully know themselves.

And so we get locked in a pattern in
our relationship where we feel very

comfortable and we cease developing.

A lot of people, they'll get
like kind of together with their

partner and they don't really grow.

They might.

Accumulate some material things, material,
you know, a new house, new cars and stuff.

And yeah, they'll put their kids in sports
and whatnot, but their own individual

growth doesn't really continue to happen.

And part of that is going
back in time and understanding

where you're projecting from.

The more you can understand that, the more
honest you can show up in a relationship.

And I don't mean, like I said, hiding
truths or half secrets, it's just really.

Being your authentic self.

And, um, I think that's huge.

So I think really being honest
with yourself, um, as a start point

and then accepting that, you know,
that that'll go both ways, right?

That'll come up.

We'll be challenged in our relationship.

Um, I think if you are in a relationship,
um, every now and then you should

take Almost like a break, if you will.

So we get so locked in that pattern
that we don't step aside from it.

And, um, Um, we might not be showing
up as the man or the woman that we want

to, or that our partner wants us to.

And I don't mean like nitpicky,
like that kind of show up.

I just mean like showing up as
that best version of yourself.

And you can do that when you
separate a little bit for, it

doesn't have to be long, but like
an authentic separation for a bit.

Um, like a sabbatical almost,
you can start to see these

things play out and you're like,
you get a little bit of space.

So I think that's important.

Um, I think if you do have love, Like
I said, respect it, honor that love.

Don't put it in a jar.

Nothing, you can't contain it.

Don't try to contain your partner.

That's one of the things we, you know,
provide, provide, preside, protect all

that kind of perimeter, you know, that
man stuff, the way we try to do it is box.

We try to put security like that.

What really is wanted is
psychological security.

Um, I'm going to assume this is a man
asking so that our feminine partner

can express her full divine feminine.

So she can fully be a woman and
then you can fully be a man.

And those energies play well together.

Now it doesn't mean we don't transfer
them back and forth a little bit.

Um, but when she can do that, that's
where real magic can come from.

Cause like, even if we think about like
women's smiling, I mean, really smiling

and being happy that our authentic self.

Cause I think women are the most
magical, like not just as a dude, I

think like as the epitome of creation
in the universe, like here is.

Something that can create life.

They're so in tune with their world.

Um, but if we think of women smiling,
um, and then we think when they don't,

so like you can be in a war torn country
and kids can play, kids will play, but

if our women are actually really happy.

And I, I mean, joy filled, they
have peace, they're stable, you

know, they're psychologically
and physiologically provided for.

And again, that's not like
a full man's responsibility.

Um, but if you can create that
kind of container, like a, it's

almost like a non existent, it
doesn't actually have perimeters.

It's designed to keep growing
with the relationship.

If you can do that, provide
psychological safety for a woman.

Um, This is from the man's
perspective and the same thing,

you know, like the woman has to do
the same for the man in other ways.

Um, I think that's, that's a great
recipe for a successful relationship.

It's really well

Travis Bader: put.

How have your experiences in the joint
task force affected your personal growth

and resilience and what coping mechanisms
have you found effective in dealing with

emotional aftermath of military service?

Jeff Depatie: Okay.

Um, well, you know, I kind of
alluded to it before, right?

I said, Mm-Hmm.

. If we look at resilience as your ability
to stay conscious in adversity and not

collapse down, and not allow fear to take
over, um, the unit's very good at that.

That's one thing.

They're very good at teaching.

Now, what they do though, is they
do that through exposure and these

exposures start to snuff out.

Other feelings and emotions, um,
mainly fear, but like, if we think

of it as a bank of it, um, it
starts to snuff that out, right?

Like, um, you learn to do X, you
snuff out these emotions that

sit below it in order to do that.

Now that starts to give the illusion of
resiliency in that set of parameters.

What it does though, is
it starts to shut off.

resiliency in other places and other
environments, because you've started to

collapse down what you have access to.

This is called coping mechanisms.

Um, and some of them are
good and some of them aren't.

Uh, most coping mechanisms we
have are very avoidant, um, in the

military we have one called drinking.

I don't know if you've heard of
it, um, but these are very short

term coping mechanisms that will
not address longterm problems.

Uh, You know, a few years before
I left, they did start bringing

in psychologists, um, for kind of
just what we'll call talk therapy.

The problem is, is the nature of the beast
closes down people and on a time scale.

It's, it's not accurate.

So what happens is you spend years
becoming an operator and closing down

and it's actually frowned upon to be
vulnerable, you know, to, to think

something like feel scared example.

Um, it came up for me a little while ago.

I didn't, I didn't think about it.

And then I kind of came to me and,
uh, and then I felt this like rush of.

Pure fear, but I didn't really, I couldn't
understand it at the moment, but, uh,

I was overseas, I was in a gunfight,
head was over a wall and then I ducked

down and then a green tracer round came
right above my head, like right here.

But I looked over at the guy beside
me and he had this look of terror,

the look of terror that you'd give if
you just about saw your buddy get his.

Face opened up by a bullet at the
time we kind of laughed it off or

reloaded and we got back into gunfight.

Cause that's just what you do years
later though, that moment, like,

cause what happens with humans
is when we see other emotions in

people, we absorb them very quickly.

We're supposed to, right?

Like if someone's scared, you want to
know, okay, I'm, I should be scared too,

because my survival could depend on it.

But there was all kinds of these
moments that got stuffed away.

So what looked like resilience was
just stuffing it away in a Pandora's

box that was going to get opened
up and was going to be hopeless.

Um, So my coping mechanisms at
the time weren't super great.

Like, like I said, avoidance,
alcohol, um, try not really

even going to the therapist.

Cause that's the thing.

That's what I was saying.

They work against each other.

The therapist is trying to open you up
and what might look soft and vulnerable.

And at that point it is now
because it's kind of too late.

These things have to be done in
tandem much earlier on, right from

selection onwards, um, in order
to get the maximum resilience.

And then it's like downtime.

Um, if my, I remember like
burnout's a big thing because your

nervous system is on all the time.

Every day you show up, not good enough.

You have to keep developing, you
have to stay ahead of the tech, you

have to stay ahead of the enemy.

You have to be, you know, you're there.

It's like a competitive
world, which it has to be.

But detune, decompress.

Um, and that takes a lot of time.

It's not a weekend.

It's not even a month off.

It's like almost tit for tat
in time, but we don't do that.

Um, and that would be excellent.

Like real decompression,
um, would be amazing.

Now on the other side.

Um, yeah, talking, talking with
people, it could be therapy.

People shouldn't be ashamed of therapy.

There's nothing wrong with it.

Uh, it's tricky to find a good therapist
or a good counselor that you jive with.

Um, finding containers where
you can express yourself, uh,

is very important on this side.

One of the things that I found that
I never thought I've been at it

for about 50 weeks now is piano.

Um, I wasn't really a musical person.

Like I like music, but I.

Um, but playing the piano
has been amazing for me.

Um, yeah, so like I was, you know,
I couldn't find like any kind of

artistic, if you will, um, expression
like output, um, until that.

And we're really, one of the
things I noticed is I, I missed.

Using my hands a lot.

I like using my hands.

I liked shooting a lot, but I
just can't shoot like that much.

I used to shoot thousands of rounds all
the time, you know, like, um, I can't

afford it and, um, I just, there's
nowhere to do it, but using my hand,

eye coordination with the piano is
amazing, but it just something about.

Uh, the sound, the feedback has been one
of the most therapeutic things I have.

Um, like we talked about
earlier, getting out in nature.

Uh, these are, you know, just,
just kind of being, learning

to be more honest with myself.

Now

Travis Bader: you're putting together
programs for first responders to provide

tools during the training phases, the
pro providing them resiliency tools,

uh, before the fact rather than.

During or after, uh,
something I looked at before.

Did you want to talk a bit about that?

Jeff Depatie: Yeah, I would love to.

I'd love to.

So, um, Through the art of adversity,
we have a, it goes by a few things.

Uh, you can look it up as citizen green.

If you're a soldier, former soldier, or,
you know, someone who's a veteran, uh,

it's, it's, uh, um, it's free access for
those who sign up, who are already on the

cannabis program through veterans affairs.

Um, so if they sign up through the
company that we have an agreement

with, they get the courses for free.

Um, eventually we would
love to just give it.

So yes, what you're saying is true, but
if we look at one single event, like, uh,

kind of a stereotypical bomb goes off,
you see your buddy get blown up, right?

It's, it's like, it's literally
seconds worth of time.

If we call that the event, okay.

There's, The baseline leading up
to the event, there's the event,

and then there's post event.

Okay.

If we kind of like, like we
talked about, if we put some equal

signs and zeros on a timeline,
there's before, during, and after.

And the idea of this program is that
people can use it at any time because

stress is happening all the time.

We always are constantly in an event
in our lives, unless we're sleeping.

And even then some people are still
going through it because we, we,

we, we surround ourselves with
progress and busyness so much.

Okay.

Now the idea is.

Learning beforehand, how to deal with
events and then how to walk through

the event with the least amount of
catastrophic damage, and then come

out the other side and grow from it.

So in fact, the tools work at all
parts of it, uh, but hopefully, uh,

folks start using it before, cause
that is really the best time, um, to

understand this while you're navigating
through these conditioning factories.

And then before you get out on the
job, whether you're, you know, police,

fire, it doesn't matter wherever
high tension, high stress jobs.

Um, learning tools to navigate that.

Some of those are, um, very archetypal,
you know, just how to visualize,

how to, how to grow your ability to
see and feel the world around you.

You know, if like all you ever saw was one
image and you tried to express the world

as that one image, it just won't work.

Right.

So we have multiple images,
we have all kinds of visuals.

Um, Um, once we start getting into
the emotional range, it gets trickier

because we, we kind of pushed away from
visualizing these things and feeling

them and, um, but, uh, and then some
of them are really practical tools,

you know, how to really stream of
consciousness journal, like really let

it flow and then how to pull information
out of that, you know, so it goes

like really, um, through meditative,
contemplative, and very, what we call

concentrative So those are engaging
different brain wavelengths, you know,

concentrated ones are kind of alpha betas.

They're very focused.

Um, contemplation's a little bit more,
you know, kind of theta dipping into

Delta, which is like your sleep pattern.

Um, meditation is even a
little bit deeper there.

Right.

And so contemplation brings you in
and out of these states of mind.

Meditation kind of hones you
in one and tries to clear it.

Um, just a, just a, Thought, I think
you're better off taking a nap.

Um, you know, people really right
now are pushing meditation, but

if we look, there's these things
called blue zones in the world where

people live to be a hundred more.

Um, they're more likely
to live to be a hundred.

They don't do meditation.

They nap, all of them nap.

And that's a good point.

Makes sense, you know, cause it
takes your brain through those

waves and then it readjusts.

Um, so if you can take a nap, um, well, it
seems, it seems simple, but it's like, how

many days of your life have you not taken
a nap when you're like, I could use a nap.

You know what I mean?

Travis Bader: The only time I ever nap
is when I'm out hunting, I'm up early

and then midday, I'll just lie down
out in the field and fall asleep and

hope that, uh, I hear something that
wakes me up and I can take a shot.

Jeff Depatie: But, uh.

Yeah, but you know what, like,
and it, it's You know, you go

into these really nice rhythms.

Um, but anyways, yeah.

So citizen green, um, is that program
that's available to servicemen and women.

Um.

I can't even like, it's, it's 52 videos
long, um, plus all the courseware.

So I can't even, and then we
brought in people, all kinds of,

uh, scientists, uh, mythological
people, just all different realms to

kind of compact this into a space.

Uh, not to be like the one stop shop.

And it's all there, but really help people
start to get the conversation within

themselves going, build up the language.

You know, I mentioned language
tech, we use that, but it like,

it really, it's designed for
all kinds of personality types.

So we all have propensities towards
certain personality types, you

know, introverted, extroverted.

Some people like to sense their world.

Some people intuit their world.

Uh, some people feel more, some people
think more, you know, that's very MBTI.

That that's a broad range.

So we all approach life differently and we
wanted to capture tools so that it starts

to interest people from all those, because
certain people, there's certain things.

That, um, people have tendencies
like an introverted sensing person is

statistically most likely to develop
PTSD because they try to make sense of

the world through their senses only, and
they're less likely to talk to people.

You know, those are like two of the
things that we already talked about

that are going to probably stack the
odds against you, but they're also

some of the toughest nuts to crack,
which is good in certain situations.

Um, so, you know, you know, building it up
for those, those different kinds of minds.

Yeah.

We're quite excited about it.

Travis Bader: So if they want
to find more art of adversity.

com or citizen green.

io, if they're military, military

Jeff Depatie: first
responder for citizen green.

Yeah.

Military first responder.

So right now, um, everyone is welcome.

Everybody is welcome.

The way it's set up though, is, uh, cause
veterans affairs just like to pledge like

200 and some million dollars for cannabis.

So we partnered with a cannabis
company and what happens is if people

go through that cannabis company,
they get the course for free.

Um, Now that could be like a
medical cannabis, like as for

if they're now a civilian, or it
can be through veterans affairs.

And, um, that way there we can
help take care of each other.

Cause I, for a long time, you know,
veterans were asking, asking, um,

for some programs, you know, you
mentioned for before something happens.

So before the worst sets in,
um, but it's also for during,

and then it's also for after.

So part of that is like, there's
also transition tools in it.

So, Part of the difficulty that gets
lumped in with the term PTSD is you

have service man or woman who has
dedicated their lives to being this mold.

And then they're out of that mold
and it's like, well, who am I?

What am I, what am I supposed to do?

You know, like, um, so helping shift
that identity because the brain,

um, likes to keep it structured
to help make sense of reality, but

when your whole reality is gone now.

Um, it can be tricky.

So as different, you know, hormonal
changes, you know, concussive damages,

um, patterns, you know, the traumas,
all these things start to stir, you

know, part of that is the transition,
the identity changes, all that.

So there's a whole bunch of factors
that get kind of lumped in with

the term PTSD or a stress disorder.

And like I said, by the DSM, yeah,
you know, like it shows up certain

ways, but there's all kinds of
factors that we got to look at.

How, what were your childhood
wounds, you know, what?

What are some of the coping
mechanisms that you started way

back there that weren't serving you?

Yeah.

Travis Bader: I think that DSM, I'm
sorry, I was going to say, I think

that DSM just scratches the tip
of the iceberg there and they're

still, what are we at DSM five now?

Is it four or five?

Yeah.

Five.

And they've just changed criteria
for like complex PTSD and.

Uh, a few other things, I
don't even think we're close to

understanding any of this stuff to,
to have to confine it with a DSM,

Jeff Depatie: uh, framework, right?

Because like, if you really zoom
out, that's where I like to use the

term more post traumatic growth.

But if we look at them, they're
just, it's like part of the human

experience, so we cannot reduce it down.

Um, now there's certain aspects of it,
like, you know, like complex, like for

me, I had, uh, um, concussive damages,
I had, uh, chemical toxins, you know, I

had experiential, I had the stuff from
like, so there's so much, you know,

so, you know, we really would citizen
green with, uh, the art of adverse, we,

we started to put that together, um,
and, um, To, to bring those solutions

to, to certain bets, not certain
bets to anybody who's interested.

The thing is, is like you can lead
a horse to water, but you know,

it has to take its own drink.

Um, and for people it's, it's actually,
to me, it's about realizing it's not a.

You're not broken.

It's actually this opportunity
you've been given to break a pattern.

You know, go to war and we get traumatized
because it's fucking traumatizing.

It's fucking war.

So come back, learn the lesson.

Even if it's like, you know what guys, I
don't think we should go to war anymore.

And how does that manifest?

So you heal yourself and then, you
know, Somehow you turn that into a

service, whether it's like through your
children or through being better partner

with your wife, you know, et cetera.

It can be on a grander scale.

It can be giving talks or whatnot, you
know, but the idea is people get really,

you know, you asked about moral wounds.

Cause that's part of it too.

Um, that, that gets them locked up
in the cycle as well, you know, and

it's like, well, where do I do this?

How do I transmute it?

That's the idea of it.

We.

We want to learn how to walk to
the apple tree without getting

hurt on the way to the apple tree.

Right.

Getting that reward.

But if we don't convey our message, then
we're just going to keep getting hurt.

Travis Bader: I don't know if
there's a better place to wrap

things up than right there.

Is there anything else that we haven't
talked about that we should talk

Jeff Depatie: about?

No, you know what?

Um, I think that was a great chat, Trev.

I really appreciate it.

There's a million topics we could go down.

Um, but I really appreciate your time.

Travis Bader: Likewise to you, my
brain's buzzing with all these other

ideas and thoughts, but, um, obviously
conscious of your time as well.

I appreciate you taking this time
and I'm sure, I'm sure there'll

be more in the future when you're
over here on the West coast.

You'll, uh, you'll have a seat
at the, uh, the table here

Jeff Depatie: for sure.

Anytime.

I appreciate that.