Every person has a style, and every style deserves support. Enter your style strategy cheerleader and founder of BU Style, Natalie Tincher. Since 2010 Natalie has worked with hundreds of personal clients as well as large corporations and a major global news network—and she is here to guide you.
In this podcast, you will gain clarity and insights on how to connect your style with your authentic self through Natalie's style expertise as well as interviews with other style-supporting guests like designers, clients, and other professionals in and out of the fashion industry.
Whether you love fashion, fear fashion, or fall somewhere in between, it doesn't matter. This isn't about fashion; it's about exploring who you are and how to own your unique style identity. This podcast will help you cut through the noise and examine your personal style holistically so you can "wear who you are" every day.
0:00:00 - Kelly McCready
How are you representing yourself? Are you doing more layers? Are you thinking about accessories? How do you, how do you present yourself into your community and trying to get a photo of that, because no one's going to do it as well as you.
0:00:13 - Natalie Tincher
Welcome to Wear who you Are, a podcast that takes the fear out of fashion and holds space for everyone to explore how to connect your authenticity with your personal style. I'm your host, natalie Tinscher, founder of VU Style expert, style strategist, and your enthusiastic friend and safe space of support. I believe that every person has a style and every style deserves a seat. With over a decade of experience working with hundreds of personal clients, I've learned a thing or two about how to help others have a healthy and holistic approach to navigating how to build a wardrobe that reflects who you are. So pull up your seat and let's get started. Welcome back to another Wear who you Are Wednesday.
So I am in my Europe post-trip glow. The Mediterranean does that. I just was on a two-week trip, one on a Mediterranean cruise with my in-laws, and then the second week, troy and I just relaxed in Sitges, spain, and then basically ate our way through Barcelona, had an amazing food. How that relates here. I did buy a couple of things, but only things that were already on my summer style strategic shopping list, and so I went in with a few blanks in my list, knowing that I could get some really beautiful things from local shops and brands in Europe. So before I went, I left a little room in my suitcase to accommodate for my wishlist hopeful purchases, and in Palma de Mallorca I bought a lovely dress and a pair of sneakers, both from local, independent brands in Spain. So now I have some quality clothing. I've been tackling my summer style challenge and I also have these memories to go with them. So every time I wear these pieces I will have memories from the trip. So that's really my tip.
Another tip that I'm giving you when traveling if you know you want to go and do some shopping when you're traveling, take a little bit of time to do your due diligence before you go and think about what you could actually use, or maybe what gifts could friends and family actually love and use, and not just some generic thing that of course, they'll appreciate because you thought about them, but it could end up in a junk drawer or somewhere else and not get used. And one way to do this is to think about what is the place you go to specialize in that's unique and useful. So another example for us being also in Barcelona we got our soccer loving nephews gifts at the Barca store, so then they got Barcelona jerseys from Barcelona, and this just doesn't go just for clothing. Of course we're on a style podcast, but, for example, troy and I went to Lisbon a few years ago and we knew ahead of time that they had beautiful hand painted ceramics. So beforehand I researched a few legit spots not like the tourist traps where you see the same thing in every single shop and you know that it's probably not local or artisanal and we bought a unique ceramic lamp base that I admittedly finally just got wired this last month and this trip was two years ago, so confession there. And then we also were thinking ahead to the holidays and purchased our Christmas gifts for some family members that we know love this type of thing. And then we also were thinking ahead to the holidays and purchased our Christmas gifts for some family members that we know love this type of thing and they actually use them and appreciate them and told us later that they thought that was such a great thoughtful gifts. So to distill those tips do your research before you leave on a trip and have ideas of what you want. Think realistically if you or someone you gift will actually use these things once you're back to reality and leave room in your packing strategy in your suitcase for these thoughtful purchases.
I am so excited to introduce you to our next guest, who I work with regularly. You've seen, you've heard, if you follow BU Style, kelly McCready. Seen, you've heard, if you follow BU Style, kelly McCready. A little bit about Kelly. If you don't know the voice behind a lot of what you see at BU Style, kelly hails from Australia originally but, having lived in eight countries, kelly now works in the marketing and communications division of BU Style. She's an actor just returning from a regional theater gig in Florida. We're so happy to have her back. She's a writer and director and enjoys making things with good people like those at BU Style. Oh, thank you.
0:04:32 - Kelly McCready
We're so happy to have you and I'm so happy that we met. I know.
0:04:35 - Natalie Tincher
What was it A little a year and a half ago? Isn't that wild? That's crazy. First of all, I'm sure everyone like me when they first hear eight countries. What are those eight countries? Tell us about that.
0:05:07 - Kelly McCready
Guam, australia, america, and I studied in Russia for a little bit and then now I live in New York City and I moved around a lot as a child because my dad was a school psychologist and my parents in mental health, so it was just basically moving around wherever they had jobs. But I think it's kind of made me someone who could only live in New York City or a big city like New York City, so maybe London or Sydney one day, but yeah, very much like itchy feet always need to travel. That kind of way of living is definitely a blessing and a curse.
0:05:36 - Natalie Tincher
It's so funny because, as I mentioned, troy and I just did our trip to Europe. We're back from that and I came back and I go. You know I'm spoiled. I get to come back to New York Like that is, that was something I was like. I get to come back and the next day I went to a Broadway show and it's like and I can just jump around and it's definitely spoiled and or you know, however you want to see it.
0:06:04 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, but it's also. New York City is endlessly challenging. In a way, like I was just doing this Florida acting gig where, you know, I had a car. I was on these beautiful, wide, open streets, the city was very clean. It was also homogenous, more homogenous, and then coming here and being like, wow, like I'd actually forgotten how busy the city is, how chaotic it is and also how much negotiation there is with you know, just people on the streets or it's. It's New York's amazing, it's a.
0:06:35 - Natalie Tincher
And how much you put off a simple errand, like sometimes getting toothpaste or getting like, okay, now what are the 10 things I need to get from CVS that now I can't carry because I don't have a trunk to put it in? But speaking of, you know, diversity, multicultural, all of that how did that even get you interested in? You mentioned acting photography, maybe social causes, like I would imagine that living in so many different places inspired where you are now what your interests are.
0:07:06 - Kelly McCready
I think as a child moving around so much so I speak with this weird mixed accent for sure, but my dad's American, my mom's British and I didn't move to Australia until I was 12.
So I sort of started adapting to wherever it was that I was living. And I think, as someone moving around so much, you get really good at being a little bit of a chameleon kind of trying on different personalities, different traits. So I think that's basically what happened in terms of acting and then seeing how different people live all around the world. I became very interested in politics and social activism, so I got a dual degree in political science and theater and it just seemed like a really natural fit to then move to a city like New York where I could experience all of those things all at once. And then photography also just became something that I did from a young age to document all the places that I was living, to sort of capture all the interesting faces that you come across when you're traveling the world. So yeah, I feel really really lucky to be continuing to do all those things.
0:08:11 - Natalie Tincher
It's so amazing to hear people's life experiences and myself included, so many guests that I've had clients that I talked to and how your upbringing really does influence when you really start thinking about it and why you have interest in things and it's influences where you end up in so many capacities and once you really start connecting the dots, oh, it makes sense that I'm interested in this. I've been for you, but this is what I've been playing with my whole life. It's, it's, um, it's part of my life.
0:08:40 - Kelly McCready
Now that you integrate into your passion and your work, I think people are, people pursue in as an adult things that they love and obviously are, you know, shaped by their childhoods. But I think we're also shaped, maybe disproportionately, by that one thing someone said to you when you were seven years old, when they said that you were good at that one thing. Like there was an aunt once who looked at a photo I took when I was seven and she was like you're really good at taking photos and I think I kind of latched onto that. I've always been told, yeah, exactly, Just like that one person. But I feel pretty lucky to be doing what I do and to be working like, truthfully, like to have connected with you and to be working with a company whose values align with my own. It's been amazing.
0:09:25 - Natalie Tincher
Yeah, it's been so amazing. So let's talk about how we met, because you were doing something totally different when we met and we were introduced and I'll let you take it from there because I got an email from you and was like, oh, from the get-go, I'm like I love this person's energy through an email.
0:09:45 - Kelly McCready
Well, thank you, that was it was a friend of yours, I believe, who was in the HR department of a company that I was working at which was more in like the healthcare space, healthcare technology space, and I've been working there for I think like a year and a half at that point. But I was also chair of the women's organization part of their ERG If people are familiar with that, it's an employee resource group part of the diversity, equity and inclusion sort of side of corporate America. And I was putting together an event and I wanted Natalie to speak at it, kind of do like a fireside chat, and it was great. It was a wonderful conversation. We just sort of talked about what it's like to dress for a job, but also then you know, not just dress, but how are you presenting yourself? You know, if you know yourself, how are you representing who you are at work?
And I interviewed Natalie for this chat and then it became a podcast episode on where you are, natalie for this chat, and then it became a podcast episode on where you are. And what's also terrifying about that is that when I listened back to it I was like, oh my God, I use um so many times. So my goal today is to not use any filler words at all. That's my goal. We'll see how we do.
0:11:01 - Natalie Tincher
That's been my ongoing goal since starting this podcast, and realizing also that then I use other filler words instead of um. Oh, that's interesting. What do you use? I'm not Well now, everyone's going to know.
0:11:15 - Kelly McCready
I said so so, and then I start noticing it.
0:11:20 - Natalie Tincher
So, oh, I got the first thing. Now let's. Let's just that's an interesting thing about doing a podcast and hearing yourself and starting to pick out some of those things. But then also remember, other people don't notice those things. We're hypercritical of ourselves. So tell me when you had me on and then you left your position.
0:11:45 - Kelly McCready
I did. You were a catalyst, Natalie. It was such a good conversation.
0:11:51 - Natalie Tincher
You got me to quit my corporate job.
0:11:55 - Kelly McCready
Well, you were. You know, you're a female entrepreneur and you were so clear about what you, what you valued, and and I was someone who was clear on what I valued but found it kind of bumping up against what I was doing day to day and I was like, oh man, like if I can do a job that actually speaks to who I am, the ERG stuff that I was doing there, to be clear, I think of as separate from what I'm referring to, that was an alignment, and I definitely wanted to pursue something with my time that made me really happy and fulfilled. So that was the catalyst. And then we got in touch and started talking about ways in which I could support the business and I love to write and I love to make things that are what would be the right way to say that that are informative, empowering, educational, also with a little bit of a feminist edge to them, inclusive. All of those values are in alignment with what you were doing already, so it just seemed like a really good fit.
0:12:56 - Natalie Tincher
Well, and what's so interesting is that I remember our first conversations and you, I think, even said something like oh, now I'm nervous about what to wear. And then and it's a similar thing that I get when I first meet people that don't know me, like you know, this isn't about fashion, this is about style. And so I'm curious, because you came in and you said that people laughed to hear that you were, you know, working for a quote, unquote fashion company, until you peek behind the curtain, like you have, and understand what we're about. So tell me, what were some ways then that you were able to reframe style and clothing? And you know, I know one of those that we'll talk about is the assessment and how it's shaped. First of all, just your general perspective on style and clothing and wardrobe and fashion and all those things.
0:13:49 - Kelly McCready
I think what was great about starting to understand your process, your methodology and how, as you just said, it's more of a focus on styling as opposed to fashion. It became very easy to look at how I make choices in my life, whether it be what I eat, how I'm maybe furnishing my apartment, what I'm feeding my cat, who's looking at me right now. I want those choices to be sustainable, economical, ethical. And it became very easy to see that some choices I was making with my clothes were not in alignment with those value sets. So why not apply those value sets to what I'm wearing as well, and then they can be an expression of who I am and all of that can be in alignment. So that was one thing in terms of just what I'm consuming, and then the other was in terms of how am I presenting myself? I felt very strongly from a young age, I suppose, that I was not going to be partied to trends and to be someone to kind of let's just say like indulge in whatever the current fashion sort of style is, and that just comes from, I think, a little bit of a personality streak of wanting to be a contrarian, and the older I get, the more I'm like, well, that's not actually a way of maybe styling myself. That's not a very positive way of styling myself, because it seems to be approaching things from a negative place and maybe a little bit of like a things from a negative place and maybe a little bit of like a um, it's just not. It doesn't feel particularly healthy to me. Uh, so I I wanted to start being more focused with what I was wearing and how I was going to style myself based on the assessment.
Um, getting those results was really, really interesting to me. It felt I have them. Oh my God, what are the you? Okay, so it was amazing to me because it felt like a diagnostic on who I am and where I want to go as a person, and not just clothes. But why wouldn't they be one and the same? And that was so illuminating to me. Um, and it, yeah, it blew my mind a little bit. I was like this is the most you just read, you just a little palm reading on me did. All the tarot cards, you know all the astrology things that never gave me any sense of who I am this assessment gave me. So it was pretty amazing.
0:16:16 - Natalie Tincher
Which is really funny, because it's in a space that you have rebelled against.
0:16:20 - Kelly McCready
Yes, exactly In theory.
0:16:23 - Natalie Tincher
In theory, if you're looking at it just from a macro view, it's in a yes, exactly. You scored leaps and bounds highest in creative, which could be how we can take that rebellion and turn it into just expression and uniqueness. No-transcript like an organization, a sensibility, but then they're like the duality of then also wanting expression. And when we talked with you, leaving your position where you're like, well, I've always been able to take care of myself, I'm thrifty, I can figure things out, and that feels like that classic where I'm not going to leave something without knowing that I can check all the boxes of needs, but then I also want to express myself. So you were creative highest, then classic. So 1914 and then equal was soft and magnetic and then relaxed and then polished, was like me.
0:17:42 - Kelly McCready
I'm in good company.
0:17:48 - Natalie Tincher
I'm in good company. A lot of my clients are like what are you? I'm polished. I'm like a zero, sometimes a one, depending on the day.
0:17:55 - Kelly McCready
When you take the assessment in terms of polish, is that something that you're aiming towards for more polish, or not necessarily? No, that's good for you necessarily.
0:18:08 - Natalie Tincher
No, that's good for you, you know. You want to know why, because we have team members who are polished and I've got polish in my life and you know it's. It's actually that's not true. I think if I took it now I probably would, Cause I have committed to doing things like my nails, which I never had done. So I did make some goals to do some small things and maybe like steam clothes, when I should, because that's my profession, and I should probably, you know, to that point of rebellion, say you know what? I probably should take care of things. So, yes, I guess I at first was not, but I would say now I am aiming toward a little more polished as a goal and your goals. One was creative, so that means alignment there on current and a goal that you want to be. And then your second was magnetic, and then you were relaxed. So then relaxed, polished was then your next goal, and then soft and classic or low.
0:19:04 - Kelly McCready
So that's interesting. So I want to like flop classic down a little further down. That makes a lot of sense. And even the duality that you mentioned at the beginning, I think, even if you think about, you know, getting a dual degree in political science and theater, like those are the two parts of my brain. You know there's the more analytical and then the creative too, which is interesting. Know there's the more analytical and then the creative too, which is interesting.
0:19:27 - Natalie Tincher
Well, and do you think and I know I can how I feel about this? But growing up it was you had to make a choice, often between right brain, left brain, and I always felt at odds with that, having some kind of equal duality there of like, well, I can't choose a creative field because I have to be pragmatic, and that you can't bring those brains together as much when you're choosing a life, career. And I feel like now we're fortunate to be in a world where that's not true, where we can be both and it's celebrated to be both. How does that resonate with you?
0:20:04 - Kelly McCready
and it's celebrated to be both. How does that resonate with you? I think that's true. I mean, I think this last four years has been pretty transformative for everyone. If you think about the what do they call it?
The great not resignation, I think, was maybe the term they used. So people leaving corporate jobs and perhaps wanting to be more gig workers, wanting to be more creative entrepreneurs. I think if you're pursuing that, then you have to have that organizational side of your brain, because you can't just wing that. That takes planning, that takes business acumen. So I think now that's way more respected than maybe it ever was. Even you know, talking about acting before the pandemic. I don't think an actor, if they were to go into a job interview in corporate America, would ever say that they were an actor. They would say like, oh, I studied that in college but I don't do that anymore because it wasn't respected. But now I think if you were to mention that in an interview, people are far more likely to take an interest in that. Just knowing that you're a creative thinker, I think is far more valued in the corporate space.
0:21:07 - Natalie Tincher
So I think there's soft skills now that aren't really soft. They're just actually really important skills that are finally valued, thank God, yeah, the things that you weren't taught to name.
0:21:17 - Kelly McCready
Yes, just because you can't measure something doesn't mean that it's not valuable.
0:21:21 - Natalie Tincher
I agree and I love that. Now too, when we look at the style personalities, like a creative, you can go in and say I'm a creative, and I love that. Now too, when we look at the style personalities like a creative, you can go in and say I'm a creative and it doesn't mean that I'm painting on walls and spray painting and, you know, never going to eat because I'm a starving artist. It means I can bring creative problem solving. There's different ways that creative is defined and that's what I think. Part of the illumination that you had when you took the assessment was that there's different ways that creative is defined, and classic and polished, and it's how you piece it all together to communicate who you are and to live who you are.
So I want to move that into acting then. So today we are going to really segue that into. You just got off of a show. You've this has really been on the brain and we've been talking about it quite a bit with some of the clients we have and the experiences that you've had having this revelation through style. First, let's talk headshots. Like, the first thing that an actor needs is headshots, right, what would you say? Now are the main things to consider.
0:22:29 - Kelly McCready
Headshots are so interesting. I have had them done many, many, many times and I've taken them many times as a photographer, so I've been both in front of the camera and behind it, and I've been in New York for 11 years, so I've seen, obviously, a huge change in how we think about headshots in the industry and of course, everyone's going to have a different opinion. So take mine with a grain of salt. I will say I think headshots 11 years ago prioritized either glamour in shots, so way more makeup, with women hairstyling that they wouldn't even be capable of doing on their own, which seems very silly to me in retrospect or, um, purely looking at archetypes. So you know, dressing as a lawyer and it would be like, wow, that is a, that is someone who wants to play a lawyer. Or dressing as someone who would want to be a doctor.
0:23:20 - Natalie Tincher
Dressing like a stock photo no-transcript.
0:23:48 - Kelly McCready
I've seen those quite a bit.
It may be a different background or something, but very bare yeah, and those were sort of seen as more legit shots.
So the idea of being that a casting director could, you know, superimpose whatever role they had in mind on that, hoping that the casting director even had the creativity to do that. Sometimes they don't necessarily have the creativity to do that, but now I think I think the trend has moved much more into the realm of how do you look every day, how do you represent yourself every day. So we're we're moving further away from archetypes and sort of specific roles in in acting, whether it be for film or TV or theater or commercials and looking more at what are your, what are you bringing specifically to a photograph or to a headshot session and, in turn, what are you bringing to casting? So if you are someone who lives in Brooklyn, who prioritizes social activism, who's maybe a little bit more like a crunchy hippie sort of type, how are you representing yourself? Are you doing more layers? Are you thinking about accessories? How do you present yourself into your community and trying to get a photo of that, because no one's going to do it as well as you.
0:24:53 - Natalie Tincher
So would you recommend then now, if you were say, you're getting your headshots next week, how would you think about then putting together your looks for your headshots?
0:25:05 - Kelly McCready
I think having obviously a really firm sense of self is the first thing. Think about, then, putting together your looks for your headshots. I think having obviously a really firm sense of self is the first thing and I say that because I don't think all of us do in general, and I think social media can make that very confusing for people but having a really strong sense of self. So what do you value? If people are to meet you, what are they going to get? So, understanding that, understanding how to present that authentically. So maybe five of your favorite outfits. Do not go and buy new clothes. Look at what you already have. That makes you feel really really good. Long gone are the days of buying a full wardrobe for a headshot session and then returning it after the shoot. If it's not something you love, why are you wearing it?
0:25:48 - Natalie Tincher
I amen that, amen that, amen that, because also you're not going to move naturally in it Like when you know something feels like you, the way that you move your body is going to be different, and I feel I can only speak, not being someone who doesn't love getting her photograph taken. As you know, I've taken your photo before you got to get me. You just got to get me in candid.
0:26:15 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, exactly.
0:26:21 - Natalie Tincher
If I'm not in clothes that I feel great in my whole body stiffens up. It shows on my face and I think I'm not. I don't think I'm the only person that experiences that.
0:26:26 - Kelly McCready
Absolutely. You want to know that you feel comfortable in it. Maybe it has a story behind it. Definitely, wear clothes that you already have, that you love it's. If you can tell, they can tell. I think that's sort of the general rule. So I would, I would look at what you already have photo you know. If you have photos that you've, that you've seen of yourself and you're like, wow, I look really great in that or I feel really comfortable in that or confident in that, that would be what you would want to wear. I don't want to say like it's a plug too much, but like the assessment would be a great place to start for people like truthfully who have no idea, truthfully, to be like okay, so I, this is what I'm giving.
I'm giving magnetic, but I also want to communicate to people that I am capable of polish. You know what does that mean? Strong lines of you know, a really strong tailoring, like classic lines, like that. But then maybe you're doing something really fun with the color for magnetic and then also thinking about you know your makeup, wanting it to be something that is natural looking.
Another shift I've seen over the last 10 years is it used to be way more of a I mentioned the glamour shots earlier it used to be way more of an emphasis on makeup for women that looks, yes, glammy, but that's also because Photoshop wasn't as good back then, whereas now Photoshop is actually quite good. So it's way way easier to fix imperfections on a face now than it was back then. So it's actually much better to have very natural looking skin and then maybe to touch up the small couple of things, maybe on the day that are not giving you your best look. So definitely prioritizing just again who you are authentically. What are you giving Like? Who are they going to meet when they call you in?
0:28:08 - Natalie Tincher
And in terms then of dress level, do you have? Does that? Is that something you should take into consideration? Like is there something too casual, is there something too formal For actor headshots?
0:28:19 - Kelly McCready
Mm-hmm, that's an interesting question. I think it probably comes more down to, let's say, you have, let's say, with the headshot session that you're getting, you get four looks right, and a look would be characterized as pretty much what your base level is. So it would be whatever shirt you're wearing, whatever pants or if it's a dress right, that would be one look. Usually, a look could also encompass maybe adding a jacket or adding a hat or something like that. So accessories or layers are not usually counted as a look. But start by thinking about how many looks you get and then start by sort of covering the base sort of style brands, truthfully, of what you're giving for those, maybe the first two or three, and then maybe you have one that can be a little bit more focused or or a little bit more generic, if that's actually what you're looking for. So maybe it could be applicable to a few different things.
But I would not think about you know, wanting to look too done up, unless your goal is to be on Bridgerton and you want to show that you can rock something with like an empire waist and then maybe like an updo, but don't again, don't get too archetypical. It would be then thinking about okay, I want to maybe be more soft and I don't even know, probably just soft or polished. That would be a way way, way better way to think about it than thinking, okay, I need something that really shows me in a $400 suit or whatever it is. I don't think price or expense or anything like that should be too much of a consideration. Again, if you already own it, if you love wearing it, consider it, but I wouldn't dress up or dress down.
0:30:04 - Natalie Tincher
And I think a good point you just said was that kind of layer too and I know that's something I've played with, even when I'm helping clients with branding is I'm like, hey, let's get the base layer you feel good about. And if you want to get some more options, here's you love these two blazers, or swap out a scarf or something. That's a really great way to feel like yourself, I think, in your clothes. But then maybe get a little bit of range. Or if there's, you know, a color story that you want to bring through for something and to kind of communicate just nuances of you.
0:30:33 - Kelly McCready
Exactly, yeah, and accessories too. That goes with that as well. You know, adding a if you're someone who wears a beanie every day, get a shot of you wearing that beanie. 10 years ago that would have been absolutely a no-go.
0:30:53 - Natalie Tincher
But now that is absolutely a great route to go. So would you say that these principles apply then to those listening that maybe aren't in the acting field? Do you think this applies to professional or your corporate? Or if you're a business owner like me, personal branding headshots. Or if you're a business owner like me, personal branding headshots.
0:31:05 - Kelly McCready
I think it is applicable. I think you know there's sort of the equivalent. So a few years ago, in professional headshots I'm sure it was just, you know, professional outfits looking polished. But now again, I think in the corporate world, if you go on LinkedIn, everyone's writing about authenticity as the buzzword, and that is basically what we're talking about with acting and in the corporate world, it is just representing yourself authentically, so that if you're applying for a job and the recruiter is looking at your profile on LinkedIn, the photo that you have on there that would be your professional headshot, hopefully is something that they get a sense of what you value, what kind of conversation they would have with you outside of work, as well as that you are reliable, right, so that you are putting yourself in that professional context. So I think the principles are the same, but you're just kind of knowing what that context is, which is what you would be doing if you were to dress for that situation. Hopefully, right.
0:32:02 - Natalie Tincher
I would say, the same advice can go to online dating profiles and so many things right. Like represent who you are. So there it takes away surprises when you get in a physical room with people and that's what you want, right. That's what style and your visual messaging and essentially what a headshot is is communicating a good idea of what you're going to get when you're in a room with somebody.
0:32:24 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, and with acting, you know casting directors are looking at when they look at submissions, because I've done casting as well and it just looks like a wall of thumbnails and you're just scrolling through like 1000, literally 1000 photos of people and because actors tend to be also, they prioritize how they look. To a certain extent most of them do. It's usually just a sea of good looking people, right, and you're kind of just scrolling through. So having something that you know gives me a sense of who you actually are is way more valuable than being like wow, that is a very good looking person.
0:32:57 - Natalie Tincher
So you have no idea who you are the one in the beanie, the one that? Had that like kind of smug, like like menacing grin or someone that was like silly or you know.
0:33:08 - Kelly McCready
whatever that is, I want to know that you that you applied for the role for a specific reason, that you didn't just think I'm today, I'm applying for jobs and I'm going to apply to absolutely everything that comes my way. I want to know that you applied. It applied for a specific reason, because you thought you would do a good job and be a good fit for that role, or, if your agent did you know, for the same reasons. So I've yeah, it's a acting is is interesting. I actually I spoke to, um, uh, one of my favorite headshot photographers and they're called suburban and they also do professional photos, uh, headshots as well as as well as actor photos, and they, they did, they. They shared a little anecdote that reminds me of what you just talked about in terms of sort of prepping, who you are when you get in the room, kind of setting those expectations.
If I can read it to you real quick, yeah, please do so.
They say this is from Amanda, who's one of two co-owners of Suburban.
So she says a friend of mine one time had gotten an ask from their rep to do an edgy look and had to go and buy fake facial piercings for the shoot.
To do an edgy look and had to go and buy fake facial piercings for the shoot and typically she's a super talented musical theater performer who does a lot of golden age shows. In our opinion, that feels like an odd image to put out there, because if you meet someone after they've seen that photo, most likely they would say, oh, I thought you'd be different based on your photo, which is not usually great feedback in the biz, and there are other people out there who may have, who may bring that aesthetic more naturally, not to diminish the powers of transformation. So I think what they're saying right is exactly what we're talking about setting those expectations, making sure that you're you know what is her version of edgy would be a much better question to ask what is her version of that? What is her version of sort of being more countercultural as opposed to maybe doing what someone else's version of countercultural and edgy might be? So that would be, that would be my advice.
0:34:54 - Natalie Tincher
It's those archetypes of like you don't want someone to think of. Also. I mean to me that feels costume. Then for somebody who doesn't resonate with's like I'm dressing up in this costume versus my version of it.
0:35:08 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, which reminds me of a story I told you already, which was an audition I had, which was the corporate one, where I was sort of playing a woman having an argument. It's a scene from Jerry Maguire, actually, which is a really fun film from back in the day. If you haven't seen it, I love.
0:35:23 - Natalie Tincher
Jerry Maguire.
0:35:23 - Kelly McCready
It's a really good movie and this character is like a very put together businesswoman and she's not to be messed with and she's his fiance, and it's this big argument. And I was getting dressed for this audition and I was like, okay, so I have this blazer and I could wear that with like a button up, and then you know, pants and maybe heels. And I was thinking about what it would feel like could wear that with like a button up and then you know pants and maybe heels. And I was thinking about what it would feel like to wear that in this audition room and I thought about how self-conscious I would feel and how not me I would feel if I were to actually wear that. So I put that aside and I was like, okay, so what does Kelly communicate or want, or how does she communicate?
Strength, not to be trifled with maybe a little bit of queen bee sort of energy and with maybe a little bit of like an uptight quality, because those are the character qualities that I was trying to sort of capitalize on. So I went through my closet and I pulled out this. I guess you call them a boiler suit in America. Yeah, I pulled out this. I guess you call them a boiler suit in America. Yeah, and it was. You know, zip up, and it had like a really severe collar and it was like very fitted and I feel like a I don't know if I can say it but like a badass, total badass in it, like no one could tear me down and it felt like armor and exactly what I needed for this character.
And I went in and had a great audition with this casting director and he was like you are great and I felt so good about it and I did not wear heels, I wore like combat boots, like I felt, but I felt like you were like, yeah, and I, and I was communicating to him that I understood myself as well as the character, which is something that feels like such a leap from what I was doing a few years ago, which was just communicating that I understood the character, but they want to know that you understand yourself too. So that is huge and, truthfully, a huge part of that comes from working with you and understanding what clothes communicate to others, and that it starts with what they're communicating to yourself too.
0:37:27 - Natalie Tincher
Well, and I think that's I love that story and that story was basically the catalyst for getting having this conversation and really inspired me because you think about it and you know, again, applying to everybody walking into a business meeting, let's say, and you want to feel, let's say it is power.
Or walking into a space where you're like I want to feel more approachable, how do you do that? Not how, how, if I look up what is powerful and dressing that, what does that mean? And you're going to get some sort of image and to copy that isn't your version of power or your version of empathy or your version of polish, and so, um, I would imagine, and it sounds like by you feeling powerful but understanding the character you brought out, your like that perfect Venn diagram of your interpretation of a character in your own power, instead of acting like this is how this character is also supposed to act 100% and it and it read better than anything that any sort of again those more archetypical sort of views of whatever power might be or power woman might be those are not me, but I can do my own version, and it will be unique too.
0:38:46 - Kelly McCready
So if they're looking for someone who's doing a unique take on that role, you're probably more likely to get cast too than someone else.
0:38:53 - Natalie Tincher
And that's potentially who you want to work with right to than someone else. And that's potentially who you want to work with right, because if they want your unique take on it, then they're going to, they're going to probably draw out of you like, no, don't do it. Like, whatever character did in the movie, what's your way of doing it? So I mean, I will equate it to um, we both love Gail Rankin on Cabaret right now and her, her, sally Bowles. I said I was like I felt this. Like Sally Bowles is not been the character that I'm like. Oh, I feel all of this for. And when, the way she interpreted that role, I was like, oh, and this new interpretation on a character that I felt a new empathy. I started thinking more about the history of the character just by what her as an actor was pulling out of it that I'd never experienced before.
0:39:50 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, that's a great analogy, Just the idea of, especially for a revival, right? So if something is coming with history and preconceived notions, a character, then what are you bringing to it? That's uniquely you and also uniquely of its time. I actually haven't seen. I love gail rankin. I've been following her career for like 10 years, since tribes at bear street theater, but um, she, her, sally, I haven't seen. I've seen the, the show when it was in London. The same show, the Rebecca Preknall revival. So I know sort of what they're doing with that character, but it sounds like what she's doing is also uniquely her and uniquely contemporary, which is really thrilling.
0:40:36 - Natalie Tincher
We talked about costuming within the scene how much and playing the role then. So you've gotten the role because of who you are, your headshots, then coming in and bringing yourself to it, even from a style perspective. Now let's talk about costuming. Like, what license do you think there is now and I'm sure it depends on the type of show and who's hiring you? Do you have to not interfere with the costume designer's vision, but also bring that authenticity and your comfort level into a role through the costume choices?
0:41:05 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, that's a great question. I think you know, for film, tv, theater, all of those, that question really depends on the scale in which you're performing. If you're on an Apple TV show, you don't have a huge say in terms of what you're wearing. Actually, I did do a fitting for an Apple TV show and tried on some incredible clothes and was able to give a little bit of my opinion, but ultimately those decisions are made by someone who's not even in the room. They're just looking at photos and saying, oh, we want that, that, that, that, for whatever reason. For a theater production, small scale, they may ask your opinion, but for the most part those art forms at a professional level are incredibly collaborative, and by that I mean that they're not coming to you first, they're coming to the costume designer first and asking what are they sort of considering for their vision for what they want you to wear because it fits into a larger production design scheme.
The show that I just did in florida is a really good example. I think when I came into that show so it's set in 1967, 1968, when I came into rehearsals for that, I was like very hopped up on Joni Mitchell and sort of the flower child era of 1968 and I had this character in my head that was very, a little more like hippie, a little looser, you know softer, and the costume designer. On day one of rehearsals I went in for a fitting and the costumes were. I mean, they're beautiful, they were incredible costumes but they were really more like a line. They were very fitted, beautifully tailored, very buttoned, you know, very secretarial for the time period.
Mad men yeah a little, maybe a little more like that Absolutely, and because that was then I understood the direction in which we were going with that character. That informed for me as an actor so much more about the character than anything else. And in fact, once I knew that was the direction we were going in, I asked for my shoes to be a size too small, because I never wanted her to be able to walk incredibly comfortable, comfortably. I wanted her to walk with a little bit of a tightness to it because that was what I understood the character's function was within the play and that was really helpful. So costuming is amazing, but you have to be receptive to what others in the room are telling you about that character.
0:43:32 - Natalie Tincher
Well, and that's interesting then. Oh, that makes perfect sense and it's really interesting in the light bulb moment for me then too, on that of you saying, initially you're coming in authenticity, you, what you bring to the role, and then it starts becoming more collaborative, where you can use those costume choices to say, oh, now I'm actually embodying this role and this is what this character already had in their closet, almost like yeah, exactly.
Well, they, like you could probably tell a story of, she chose these clothes so that reverse style personality, so that means she's probably a little more classic, exactly than I thought and so it can inform your interpretation of the role through already those creative decisions made about the macro level of the story, the character, the plot, how it should play. That's so interesting.
0:44:23 - Kelly McCready
And it doesn't mean that you can't. You know that. You know, even if you're given very uptight sort of tailored clothes, it doesn't mean that you can't put your own, take, you know spin on that. Maybe her hair is messy or maybe it's not tucked in the way that it should be, because you know, that character that I played did get very frazzled over the course of it, so I wasn't always wearing the clothes beautifully. So of course you have creative license within that. But, yes, it is collaborative and you are doing sort of a reverse diagnostic based on the conversations you know production has had without you, because actors are not involved with all of those art questions. So it it's. I love it. I think theater and film and TV are such wonderful ways to learn about the world. It had me really immersed myself in a decade over the last six weeks. That I I did already appreciate, but what happened in the sixties was pretty amazing. Um, you know, culturally, politically.
0:45:14 - Natalie Tincher
So it, I, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade the life that I have for anything but yeah, you came out changed with a new appreciation I did, I did and a new immersion in something. You've got a glimpse of what it was like to be existing then right.
0:45:31 - Kelly McCready
Yeah To be existing, then I mean, obviously it's not the same as actually being yeah to be existing then I mean obviously it's not the same as actually being. Of course, I'm not going to overstate it, but it was in terms of empathy, I think. I think acting and or any of these creative fields that's it helps you. It's an empathy machine. It helps you grow in that way. So it was. It was great. Yeah, the clothes were a big part of it.
0:45:52 - Natalie Tincher
As they are, and I think that's really the takeaway of the holistic view that acting, that clothing play in the role of acting. And so then, as my final question for you would be we've talked a lot about wardrobe, about authenticity, about bringing yourself into things. If brand new actor getting, let's say, headshots for the first time, what would be your top few tips on how to start and how to start approaching it? Um, also, knowing that when you're first starting, you are first starting and like that's okay. Um, it may be overwhelming.
0:46:30 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, I, I think those I've actually had some of these conversations with my university will sometimes call me and be like we have a new graduate coming to New York. Can you talk to them? So I've given this speech a couple of times, which is don't spend more than $500 on your first headshots. So when you're researching companies to go with or photographers to go with, make sure you're in that price range, because if you're spending, headshots can be $1,400. If you're spending that much money on your first session ever, you're going to feel so much pressure, you're going to be really very stressed out. So make it within your price range and $500 or $600 seems like a good sort of sweet spot where you can get some great photographers and not be breaking the bank. Make sure that when you look through their portfolio, when you're choosing someone that you can't identify a particular look Like. If you look at someone's photograph and you're like, wow, they got their photo taken by David Knowles, then I already know they spent $1,200 on that photo, but I couldn't tell you anything about that actor. It's almost as if their photographer style has been sort of pressed so firmly on that actor that I no longer get a sense of who that person is. So I would prioritize finding a photographer who understands an actor's unique style as opposed to putting their own sort of on top of that. So finding someone who can really see you, I think, is paramount, and ironically those tend to be in the $600 price range as opposed to the $1,200 price range. And then I would also, you know, spend a couple of weeks before you get your photo taken, before you book a session, talking to other actors who you love about sort of tips or things like that that help them feel relaxed in a session. I like to ask a photographer if I can bring a friend or if I can choose the music, sort of things like that will just help me feel more relaxed and then understanding, obviously, your type, like what you're, what you're putting out there. Again, those are the view, style, six, personality. I feel like that is a really great frame of reference.
So for me, going into a session, now that I understand that I'm trying to be a little bit more magnetic, maybe I want to bring in something that speaks to that. Maybe I want to bring in something that I do have a little, maybe a soft, a soft photo that might be really helpful to me and to have in my portfolio. So understanding exactly what your goals are as well, and making sure those are those are achievable by the photographer. I think that is absolutely what you want. Even if you can get on the phone with a photographer in advance or ask some questions via email, if they're receptive to that, is obviously a great place to start.
Headshots can be overwhelming, definitely, and they can make you feel not even I wouldn't say unattractive, but sometimes you just feel really closed up and really not confident about yourself. Know, sometimes you just feel like, really like closed up and really not confident about yourself. So the biggest thing I would say is just making sure you get your match and a photographer, first and foremost, because the last thing you want to be doing is to get into a room within five minutes because you didn't do your research or do enough sort of like exploratory conversations with them within five minutes to know that you don't feel good about yourself with this person, so because you're not going to get photos that you like.
0:49:37 - Natalie Tincher
That last point. I a thousand percent, even from getting branding business headshots. I can look at the I've done five, six, seven over the years and I know when I felt comfortable and when I didn't. I knew when I found my recent ones from Ambie, who we've done a couple of times before, so comfortable with her, and then last time I was like I know that I'm good when I put music on. I know when we put that Beyonce fan on and you know, and I came through the most that I've ever come through because I'm comfortable with her and she knows how to bring out Natalie's comfort and doesn't make me feel like move your head this way and do this and then all of a sudden I get stiff and awkward. So I echo that relationship of making sure that you feel like it's a good match versus this is the check best headshot person. Quote unquote it's who's the best for you.
0:50:28 - Kelly McCready
Yeah, exactly, I had someone my very first headshot session. I did what I said not to do, so when I first got my headshots taken, I spent $1,200 on them and within five minutes the photographer had taken a couple of photos, looked down at his camera and went and, I quote wow, you look really uncomfortable. And it just made me die inside and I was like I knew that I wasn't going to get any photos that I liked and I felt so bad about myself. And that comes from just sort of making an impulsive decision based on what you just said where myself. And that comes from just sort of making an impulsive decision based on what you just said, where I was like who is the best headshot photographer in New York City, whereas I should have spent way more time having exploratory conversations with photographers making sure we were a fit, you know.
0:51:06 - Natalie Tincher
And there's a beauty now in having social media for the downsides and the upsides as upsides as you can follow a lot of these people and and see and I know I found my business headshot person from working with a singing group and I was like these, I know these women and the best of them is coming out in this photo and all of their unique personalities are coming out. And I was like I'm gonna call this person because if they're super comfortable and they were communicating who they are and I know them. So I followed her and I was like oh, this feels, you know, got on a call and finally felt like I found the right match for me, and what the right match for somebody else is is different, just like what the right magnetic for somebody in a wardrobe is is different for you. And so I think it truly does come down to knowing who you are. I think it truly does come down to knowing who you are, what you want, and not apologizing for that too, waiting till you find a fit that feels good.
0:52:01 - Kelly McCready
That's totally true. I think actors are people pleasers too. So if they have a rep who's like I only like photos from blah blah blah, they'll be like great, then I'll do that. But um, you know, advocate for yourself If you've done your research. If you're like no, I actually understand myself enough to know that I'm going to get the best photos for me, for who I am and what we're trying to get for me as a you know, as a career artist. I think I'd be better suited for this photographer. Say that your age is a really good chance. Your agent will appreciate you having a strong sense of self a strong sense of self.
0:52:36 - Natalie Tincher
I think that's a big message that's come through in all of this and would love to wrap it up with that of that. Just advocate for yourself, but you have to. Only way to advocate for yourself is to know yourself and to be able to communicate that unabashedly. Yes, yeah. So thank you so much for coming on and your time today. It's so fun to learn I mean, I learned so much and it was so eye-opening, even though we are in regular communication and so fun to see this side of you and to get so much useful information. That applies to actors and to all of us. Yeah, I've always loved talking to you, natalie, as always.
So for everyone else, as you get dressed every day this week for headshots, for work, for a character, for your life story, remember, you get to choose how to express who you are, and your style choices are the first filter to do that. Thank you so much and we will see you next time. Thanks for joining another where who you are Wednesday. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. Be sure to follow along for episode news updates and other bonus style insights on Instagram through my business account at Bustyle that's the letters B-U-S-T-Y-L, or my personal account at Natalie underscore Tincture. And don't forget to subscribe to Wear who you Are wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks again and see you next time.