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Own Your Impact equips experts and leaders to transform their expertise into meaningful influence. Host Macy Robison reveals how successful thought leaders use deliberate systems—not luck or volume—to amplify their authentic voice and create lasting impact. Through practical frameworks and strategic guidance, you'll discover how to build a self-reinforcing ecosystem of Core Resonance, structured Content, a Central Platform, strategic Connections, and intentional Commercialization. Whether you're just starting to share your expertise or scaling an existing platform, this podcast delivers the roadmap to turn your ideas into purpose-driven influence that resonates far beyond what you might imagine possible.
Macy Robison 0:01
Welcome to Own Your Impact, the podcast designed to help you transform your expertise into a platform of purpose and influence. I'm your host Macy Robison, and I'm here to help you uncover your authentic voice, create actionable frameworks, and build a scalable platform that turns your ideas into meaningful impact. Hey there! Welcome back to the show. Today I'm talking to another one of my clients, and this conversation is all about how exposing it can be. I think there's no other way to say it. When you're doing the one thing you're actually built for, which sounds counterintuitive, but stick with me on this one. My guest today is Mark Laroost. Mark is a storytelling and leadership communication expert. He's a guest lecturer at INSEAD. He runs StoryCast and he hosts a podcast called The Unconventionalists. He's also the author of an amazing book called Glow in the Dark. Mark works with leadership teams inside Fortune 500 companies, Nike, Microsoft, L'Oreal, Google, the NHS, and then he also works with small business owners and founders and speakers who are on their way to building businesses like that. Now hold on to the difference between those two audiences because it comes back near the end in a way that I didn't expect. But it's all about storytelling, and it's all about making sure you can communicate clearly. Now, Mark and I started working together near the end of 2024, beginning of 2025, before the archetype assessment even existed. So when I created it, I actually went back and asked him to take it. I wanted him on the show because his primary archetype is resident orator. If you've taken the assessment, that's expressing yourself by speaking, and his expanded archetype assessment score for resident orator was 94% Just for context on this assessment, someone's archetype score being at 30% on the raw scores is where I really start paying attention to the strength of that signal. So this is three times that, more than three times. And I want to say this before we start because Mark was very generous in this conversation in a way that I do not take for granted. Mark is an excellent, excellent speaker. Viral YouTube videos spoken all over the world. That ability to express himself through his voice actually extends to his written expression as well, which is actually really difficult to do. But here's what I want you to be listening for: a few minutes in the episode, Mark starts telling me about singing lessons that he began taking this year. We stay on that idea for a few minutes. His father was a jazz musician. His brother taught himself several instruments as well, and these voice lessons were a birthday present from his wife, and I really loved so many of the things that he learned from using his voice in this different way. Really listen for what Mark says when he talks about the guitar, what his singing teacher told him about people who play and sing and hold the guitar, and how that can become a shield between themselves and the room. Mark takes that idea and moves it right over to his speaking in the stage, and I'm really excited for you to hear some of the things he talks about in that section. The last thing I want you to listen for is how honest he's willing to be about where he is with all of this right now in his thought leadership, I really appreciate him showing up and speaking about the work that he's doing and the ideas he's sharing in the world and the way that he's doing it. There's one more thing I'm going to hold until the very end after you've listened to our full conversation. I'm excited to point out as well. So here's my conversation with Mark Laroost. Enjoy our conversation, especially his amazing accent.
Speaker 1 3:45
My name is Mark Roost. I often say it's an unpronounceable surname because my dad's French and my mum's British, and nobody's perfect. And I usually say that joke in the UK, and it goes down well. I say the same joke in France. It does not go down well at all. Self-deprecating humor is not French trait, and I think you know, as someone who's half British, half French, that's you know, I give myself the permission for that show. But I'm a storytelling and leadership communication expert, and I'm a guest lecturer at INSEAD, and I run Storycast as well as the podcast The Unconventionalist. I guess we got to work together through a mutual friend, Mike Pettyon, who introduced us, kind of like, hey, I think you two should meet, and we connected, and and I thought it was really interesting that you were bringing frameworks and some sort of models to some of the work that you had done in the past of various organizations, bringing that together, making your own thing, and and I honestly cannot remember the name of my architect right now, is it? It's some like orator, like something. Yes. This is this is how bad. I'm dyslexic, by the way, and I have ADHD, so you've been listening to this. My attention span is about 3035 milliseconds. Don't know why I had a strange accent there, but um, yeah, I think it was compelling orator, something like that.
Macy Robison 4:56
Resident orator, and and honestly forgiven because when we. Went through kind of walking through looking at your business when we started working together. The archetype assessment didn't exist, and I came back and made you take it. So
Speaker 1 5:09
right, I appreciate. Was it last year we worked together? I can't remember. Was it last year? It was last year, wasn't it? Yeah, like
Macy Robison 5:14
the beginning of 2025, I think.
Speaker 1 5:16
Yeah, that's it. So it's been a hot second. Yeah, I think for me, if I had to say honestly, the biggest takeaway. Sometimes I know it sounds weird, but you know I've been doing this for just over 10 years, and I've been fortunate to work with great mentors and coaches and over the years. And I think what I appreciated about the space that you created is this sort of exploration of, hey, how do you how do you show up basically? You know, and I'm a big believer of you know the way that you are connected to your message is felt. So if you don't feel connected to your message, nobody else will. I really have a belief for that. So I think I like the idea of having this sort of structure to help people to go. Hey, it's not because everyone's telling you you should do videos that you should do videos. It's not because everyone's telling you should have a blog or a newsletter that you probably should. And it's sort of finding your your lane in which you can deliver the most impact, and I mean for me it was always going to be speaking, and I think through the work that we did together and and the assessment that you sent my way, I think it was just a confirmation, and sometimes that's what we need. Sometimes we do a confirmation, but I think it was really also figuring out, Yeah, like LinkedIn. Okay, LinkedIn is a good example. So LinkedIn is by default the platform of choice that I should and I do spend most of my time on because a lot of event bookers and planners who book me for keynote talks, you know, 45 minute keynote talks and Q and A's for their events, conferences, all staff sort of meetups and leadership training on LinkedIn, large in between. I'm sure YouTube and maybe TikTok and Instagram, all that stuff, but most on LinkedIn. And so I think I've been playing a lot of the playbook that LinkedIn typical content creators play by, which is like writing.
Speaker 2 7:01
But
Speaker 1 7:01
I'm not a writer. I've written books, but I'm not a writer. I'm an author, but I'm not a writer. I don't know if that makes sense. I can write. Oh, it
Macy Robison 7:07
totally does. I can
Speaker 1 7:08
write, but um, it's not my superpower. And so the way I like to think about it, whether it's the work that we do together, like just anybody doing their own thing, is if you think about the Olympics, and if someone said to you, "Okay, you can go in the Olympics and you can compete in like these seven disciplines, right? Which one are you most likely to win? But also, which one are you most likely to enjoy? And sometimes they're not the same,
Macy Robison 7:36
right?
Speaker 1 7:37
But if you can find the one and the same, then you find gold. And I think that's where understanding what your sort of primary archetype comes in and is helpful.
Macy Robison 7:46
I love I I love that analogy. That's really really helpful. I think, and I I think there's also ways to make the thing that you you know LinkedIn as your example. There are ways I think dovetail what you're good at with the way the the platform works. I think you do a really good job of making the things that you write sound like your speaking voice. And I'm not sure how you do that behind the scenes, but to me, that's been my work around. I'm also on the assessment have resident orator. It's second, and it's not as high as yours. I think there's ways to almost not trick your way through it, but trickster your way through it. I love hearing like Brene Brown talks about not not writing books. She teaches her books to her friends, and then goes and writes down the things that she teaches. And to me, it's that idea is that same idea of how do you find the place where you need to be for your business to build an audience and use the skills that you have that are inherent and most magnetic to that space. And I feel like you do that quite well, actually.
Speaker 1 8:56
Thank you. Just on that note, I saw Brennan Brown
Speaker 3 8:59
live,
Speaker 1 8:59
and the thing about Brennan Brown, so she's amazing. She's really good, fun, and she's funny. She's she's witty. She's you know all the things that you know to be. But the one thing I didn't know is that she really does march the beat of her own drum. So at the end, she doesn't do book signing. She doesn't stick around for pictures. She just finished the thing and just got off stage, and that was it. I just remember going like, oh yeah, she just doesn't do that, and so she's own that aspect of her personality, of of of her needs, and and and how she shows up,
Macy Robison 9:27
100% And I I think that to me is one of the things I've tried to reverse engineer, and one of the things that informed the way this archetype assessment works is the folks who are most unapologetically themselves, whatever that looks like, are the ones who stand out, and and I mean that's a little bit the topic of your book too, which is called Glow in the Dark. It's a wonderful book, and would love to, I guess, in in the in the vein in the lane, I guess, of standing out. One of the things we talked. Last time you and I spoke, that I've been so excited about ever since, was that you started taking singing lessons this year, and I would love to hear a little bit about that as someone who is a speaker, someone who is so good with story and storytelling. I just thought it was such a cool thing to start doing. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what made you begin. Oh,
Speaker 1 10:26
yeah, and it still feels a little bit weird to talk about it. I'll be perfect, honestly, because not that many, not that many people know about it. Just because I think it still feels really vulnerable, and I don't know why. But okay, well, I'm happy
Macy Robison 10:38
to not talk about it. Just no, no, I want
Speaker 1 10:40
to. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, 100% No, no, no. Yeah, I mean, no. There's there are very few things, and if I don't at all, I'll say like actually, I'm uncomfortable answering that. Great, perfect. I'm just setting it up so people understand that me sharing this on your podcast is like an exclusivity. So, yeah, it's one of those things where I think. So a little bit of context, just a back little quick back context. My father is well was because he's he's had unfortunately a few health issues and he's not as prolific as he used to be. But was a very good jazz player, like a very very very good jazz player, and and as such, I grew up in an environment where I would see my dad. So that wasn't his job. That was, you know, that was his, not even a side hustle, but that was like his passion. Like that's just what he loved doing. So I grew up spending a lot of weekends seeing him on up on stage with his band and playing his music. And he doesn't like performing for others. He just likes playing. It's just a bit weird. Like he doesn't listen to anybody else's music. But anyway, so I grew up with a dad who was very good at. He could do bass, guitar, double bass. That was his instrument. Piano. He could do it all at a very, very high level, and had no patience whatsoever to teach it to me or my brother. He was just like, "Here's a guitar. That's how I learn. Good luck. My brother, unlike me, is a working horse when it comes down to music. Like he self-taught himself playing guitar at first, like to a really good level, and then during lockdown, he taught himself how to play piano, and he joined a band who already had a guitarist, so he taught himself bass. And I went to see him on the 21st of June recently in Paris for the Fed de la Musique, which is like this annual, basically huge party around France where everybody celebrates music, and they've got pop up bands all over the place in front of restaurants, bar, etc. And I went to see him, and he was amazing. He was so good. I am not good. I am not great at music. Like my wife will say to you, like, no, no, you can play guitar. Okay, there are levels to this, right? It's a bit like if I'm a blue bell and my brother's like a brown belt, and my dad's like a black belt, or something like that. But I'm like, I'm just above white, right? I'm like blue. So it's a language in our family. Like my dad and my brother connect through music in a way that I can't. And I've over the years picked up the guitar every once in a while, and I might sing a few chords. But I, I get very impatient very quickly. I don't have the capacity that my brother does to tackle a song and just nitty gritty to the end of it and just know every part. I'll I'll I'll play into like a chords, but challenge. I'll just come back to that one. So there was this pattern, and then I would sing a little bit to my kids, and to my wife, and and to my close friends, but very very intimate. Sometimes my mother in law, when she was my mum, when my mum was around, I'd play music. So, and my dad would make jokes about my voice, like you would you would kind of make some of these passing comments about like oh you know like his ears very sensitive to to the right tune, so I felt a little bit insecure about that. But I think I I generally often and I think I told you this last time, I don't know why, but like weird things move me in life, really weird things like ads can move me, and sometimes I'll see an ad, and I'll be in tears for some reason. Certain movies, but and people who go on American's Got Talent, or what one of those shows, and they show up, and you're like, "Who is this person? You know, like, and they open up their mouth, and you're just going, "Holy moly!
Speaker 1 13:56
Like that is just incredible, and it really moves you to my core. Like I feel like what you talk what you talk about this resonance, right? And so I think deep down I've always had this fantasy of like I'd love to be able to sing, and I used to tell my wife this like, man, I just wish I could sing. Like, but you can't say that. No, I can sing ish, but I can't really sing. And so for my birthday, my wife surprised me with a two day retreat in the UK, like a folk singing weekend, and I was just terrified. Like, just my whole body was just like I felt very insecure, very sort of like, why am I going to this thing? Everybody's going to be singing. I don't sing. I barely play guitar. I barely sing. But I'd already signed up to do these singing classes, and so I met this this woman called Sammy who's really amazing. She's like this French singer she teaches. She wasn't classically trained, so she she's got a different very style. And there's so much we could unpack and talk about. I don't want to bore everybody about this, but it's been really fascinating because first of all, it felt very. Exposing and very very vulnerable because it was the first time I sang in front of someone who wasn't a direct member of my family or very very close friend, and I have a very negative bias towards my own capacity to sing and play guitar, and she was kind of like, "Now you can sing, and I don't say that to everyone. I'm not saying you're an amazing, I'm not saying you're a genius. You've got to, you know, you're going to be the next Elvis, but you can sing, so you've got to stop saying that you can't sing unless you want to be a liar, because that'd be a liar. And so that, so she's helped me to kind of shed a little bit of layers. We take a few songs. I feel very self-conscious, and the thing that she's done that's been very interesting for me is to is to help me expand my range. So let's say you'll know this more than anyone listening to this, or at least definitely in this conversation between me. But the way that she simplifies it, like there's these three sort of what she would call like levels when you're singing. One is like in your chest. So you know it's it's been sort of lower. That's where I that's where I find my comfort a lot of the times in my chest. Then she's got like this middle ground, which is for me feels like a stretch, but it's it's a more it's like you project like instead of singing down towards the bottom and making a hand movement towards towards the bottom, you kind of project forward and upwards. And then the other one she calls it like your head. It's like when you go really high pitched. If you think about Coldplay, and so in my mind, there's like there's no way I could sing, you know, middle, let alone high. And so she challenged me on a bunch of songs, like I would sing Elvis, like an Elvis song, and I would sing it the way I normally do. She's like, that's interesting because the actual tonality is this, and she would imitate it. Like, and I think you can do it. And I was like, I don't think I can, and so I would try. But in my mind, it sounds horrible. But in her mind, it's like you can sing this. Like that is your, that is the tone at which you can come in. So I started practicing. I've gained a little bit more confidence, and my wife will tell you. She says she feels like I've already made progress. So it's been a very, very interesting experience. Like just learning how to. Because she'll ask me things like, "What do you mean you can't sing? Like, for example, there's a song called "Angel. It's like the North London song in the moment of of Arsenal, and he goes he goes quite high.
Speaker 1 17:13
And when I go that high, I feel that the metaphor I use is I feel like I'm on a track, and I'm pushing the car to the very limit of the curb, and I'm off the curb, and I and I fly off the curb. That's how it feels. So that was a really really long-winded answer to your question as to why it took single answers. But it's been, yeah, it's been it's been exciting, and I have an objective that next year I want to do a summer party in our garden, and I want to play some music. So
Speaker 3 17:38
I love that.
Speaker 1 17:40
Yeah,
Macy Robison 17:41
I love that. No, I think there is a lot to unpack with that. I think that one of the things that I love about this metaphor of bringing music to being who you are in the world, or one of the things that I think gave me the courage to bring it into the work I was doing was a conversation I had with a mentor years ago. He was directing a show that I was in, and I was trying to decide whether I should, you know, pursue this more professionally in terms of performing or continue teaching, which I was doing at the time. And he said, "I think the most important thing is to realize that people who are most themselves in the work that they do sing who they are, and sometimes they use their vocal cords and notes. But the point he was making was this idea of it is a vulnerable act to be yourself in the world, and singing exposes that really quickly. Yeah, and because
Speaker 1 18:40
you're naked, because you're because you're naked, and she even said, "Look, because I play guitar, and I feel much more comfortable singing when I play guitar than when I don't have a guitar. So she made me sing without the guitar, and she said, "You know, people people who sing and and and play guitar often use the guitar as a shield,
Macy Robison 18:56
right?
Speaker 1 18:56
As as a thing to protect you from the audience, and it's so true. Like I like I, I could really, really see that.
Macy Robison 19:03
Yeah, and I, I, you can feel the difference when you're watching someone like your dad who's playing an instrument and they're playing themselves through it. Like you can feel who they are through the instrument that they're sharing. Like almost like they're singing who they are, even though they're not using their vocal cords. And someone who's using it as a barrier, and I talk with folks about that a lot in singing lessons. Ironically, when I used to teach those, and I think you know, just to kind of turn it back to your speaking, you know, your teacher said you use the guitar to protect yourself. I think a lot of us do to put that instrument between yourself and the room, and you already bring vulnerability to your speaking and the speaking that you do. I would. I wonder, like, when you really feel like you're yourself on stage, what shifts or what changes when it feels like there's nothing to hold on to and you're just there to be yourself? Because I think the most connected people do sing who they are, or. You know, again, your book is called "Glow in the Dark. They just naturally have this glow that they share. What what does that feel like, or is there is there a connection there in terms of vulnerability and speaking?
Speaker 1 20:11
Yeah, actually, there was something interesting that she did. So there was a song. I can't remember which song it was that I was learning. I've only had like three three lessons in total, and we're hopefully going to pick her back up in September after the summer. She did say something I thought was interesting. So I was singing this song, and she was effectively saying something on the lines of, like you're you're saying the words, but you're not feeling the words. You're not like connected to the words, but you're saying the words. And she was like, I don't want you to sing it. I want you to read the lyrics, like if you were giving a talk on stage.
Macy Robison 20:44
Okay.
Speaker 1 20:44
Because when I when I go into like my stage, not my stage voice, because really I'm the same person, just a little bit more enthusiastic, maybe a little bit more energy. But I'm the same whether you see me off stage now in front of the podcast, and I'm the same person. So that was interesting. That was that was an interesting exercise where I had to sort of play them. Sorry, I had to play the the song, but I couldn't sing it. I had to just say it as if it was a talk, and then that made me realize that there's a difference between projecting a tonality or the right waves or the or the right tune or whatever, And actually, really being connected to the words in connection to the music. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but so I guess in the talks when I give talks, for sure there's a difference between when I'm being performative in the sense of like I want to come across as credible, competent. I want you to like me. I'm thinking, you know, please love me, please like me. Like I can be in a crowd with 500 people, and there's everybody's having a good time, except like one person at the front row with their arms crossed and looking like a sour little sausage, and I'm just going like, oh my gosh, I'm terrible. I'm all this is over. My career is over. Like you know, and I can obsess with that. That so, what I've learned is that when I'm on stage, and I launch myself into a story that might be personal, a story that might feel real, and if I'm being perfectly honest, it's one of the reasons why I love Q and A. I love Q and A's because it's sort of like off script, and I can dance in this moment a little bit more, I would say, than when I've got a structured set. You know what I mean? Like, like if you had like a Hamilton sort of, you got like your 45 minute set keynote, and it has beats, and it has moments, and it has bits, and it has like, and it's like, so it's a well orchestrated, orchestrated piece with some room for improv in the middle, but yeah, I would say when I when I get a Q and A because there's no preparation for that, and I have to be in the moment and and raw and honest and vulnerable, and yeah, I guess I guess that the metaphor of the guitar and his talk would probably be your slides, or probably be the words you wrote down, or the structure, or the framework, or the arc, or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, I
Macy Robison 23:09
love that. You know, and Lin Manuel Miranda, I remember hearing him say years ago he he actually uses his improv group that he's in as the opposing muscle to his composer and lyricist side, that he needs to have both, and I think as someone who, especially considering your score on the assessment that you took, it came back in the low 90s, 94% I think it was resident orator. That someone whose voice is so strong,
Speaker 1 23:38
yeah,
Macy Robison 23:38
I think that's an interesting thing to consider in terms of how you show up on stage. If there is the opportunity to do both opposing muscles, to say here's the thing that's prepared, here's the thing that
Speaker 1 23:51
yeah
Macy Robison 23:52
I've thought through, here's the thing that I know lands, and here's the other side of my voice that
Speaker 1 23:58
is yeah
Macy Robison 23:59
still going to be powerful and and a little bit more vulnerable, and because of that, it's it's exciting. So that I don't know. That's I love that you said that because that's an interesting thing to consider in terms of how prominent your voice is in terms of your ability to connect to the way you think, the way you guide transformation in other people. I guess my question then I'd love to ask about that assessment score, since the profile is really all about that voice, your resident orator voice. When you got the results back, how did that land? Did it explain anything you'd been leaning into or fighting in terms of the work that you do as a speaker,
Speaker 1 24:43
I don't know. No, I think, as I said at the beginning, I think it was more like a confirmation because I think I've known deep down that I was. I mean, I would have been if if it come out as I forgot what the writer one was, right?
Macy Robison 24:54
Right.
Speaker 1 24:55
Yeah, I would have been like, "What, really? That sounds weird. But so when it came out. It came out that strong. I was like, "Yeah, that that tracks. That kind of makes sense. I haven't been very quick to act on it, if I'm being perfect honest, because I think I know deep down that my ability to engage, convey, and convert to a certain point really is in the video format. You know, it really is like talking to cameras, having PCs, like, and for whatever reason, you know what? Probably because I'm a perfectionist. You know, one of the reasons why I was late to this call is that I wanted to make sure I went to the barber so I could get a beard trim, and then I had a shower before and put on my little Americana shirt. Which, by the way, I am sweating so bad in the shirt right now, and it's just like one big pile of sweat beneath this. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm going to go a maze podcast. I'm going to get my Americana shirt, fun cowboy because we've been watching Yellowstone's and all this stuff. Oh my gosh, how do these cowboys even do it? Is what I want to know. But anyway, but it's part of that, and I think because I have a very high need for standard for quality. I don't sort of do what I know I could be doing. Actually, I say this. We're recording this in June, and at the time of the recording, this I've just posted a sort of a me video yapping, like me yapping to like my camera.
Macy Robison 26:15
Yeah,
Speaker 1 26:15
like a 92nd sort of, hey, here's something I've noticed. Having all these conversations with people only that might be helpful, but I haven't leaned in enough into the superpower that I have. And like, if I had to choose the lane in the Olympics, it would be this. It would be speaking. It would be 100% It wouldn't be writing. It wouldn't be designing workshops. Like, I can do that. I can do some writing, but it's not where I feel like I can have the most impact.
Macy Robison 26:45
You know, I think the thing that I've discovered, if this is helpful for anyone listening or for you, is when that primary archetype score is very high, it gives permission, which is wonderful. But I think there's always opposition in everything, and the opposing force in that is it feels very vulnerable. If you, if we were to put it on a mixing board, that signal would be so high. It really would be like the soloist, Beyonce, Adele. You know, like the person on stage by themselves. They're out there all alone, and their voice is what is carrying everything, and that's exciting. But it also feels vulnerable, and so exercising the muscle to do it and to feel exposed can sometimes feel hard. And it's also the way, which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 1 27:38
And also, I think it's leaning into what scares us. You know, when I lived in South Africa in 2008, it was ahead of the World Cup in in South Africa. I think it was 2008, and I spent six months out there, and I got to hang out with some amazing stand-up comedians like Trevor Noah and stuff. And
Macy Robison 27:56
oh, nice!
Speaker 1 27:57
And I got to I got to see them get up on stage night after night, try out materials. Some would land, some would didn't. Although to be fair, Trevor was even exceptional back then, and he wasn't even a superstar yesterday. But he was very, very good. But he did have that workhorse sort of again capacity to show up, and he'd go and do business events with that. Say he'd get some money to introduce some sort of corporate event, or he would go and do his try his material at stand-up comedy shows, and I saw it, and I was always like, "Oh my! How do you guys do this? Because I was, I've always been amazed by stand-up comedians because I think it's the hardest, most vulnerable, most amazing form of public communication because you're putting yourself up there, people expecting you to make them laugh, and if you if you try and pretend to be someone you know, if you try and have this act of perfection, you're just going to bomb. And often they have to own the parts of themselves that make them so such a flawed human, and yet such a relatable human, right? Because relatable beats Impressive, and and I just remember just going, "How do you do it? How do you do it? And I remember Trevor one night was just like, "Look, just stop talking about. Just go up there, bomb, and see that you'll be fine, and just get on with it. And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, whatever. But I never did because I was just terrified of the idea of going up there and realizing that I just wasn't that funny. At some point, my wife for my birthday again, she loves surprise. She always gives me gifts that are stretch.
Macy Robison 29:25
I love this about her.
Speaker 1 29:27
Yeah, like yeah, she is she is really good. I love you know. So back then, she gives me this box of my friends at restaurant, and she goes, "I want to open it. And it was on my birthday, and I open it up, and I want to say it's 2017, and I opened it up, and it was yeah, it was that was it. It was a it was a six week evening stand up comedy course. We would meet up every week, once a week for a couple of hours in Camden, and it would culminate in a live stand up comedy show at the Backyard Comedy Club in East London in front of a loud. Live sort of 100 plus crowd. We had a five minute set each, and I remember just being stunned, and everybody laughing around with my friends going like ah, and I was like, what? Like no, I, and it was awful. I'm not gonna like the whole six weeks were just dreadful for me. It felt so in my head, everybody was really funny during the rehearsals and and playing along with games. Like you know, you're holding a big ball and throw this thing, and like I just felt like I needed more time, more information. Like how do you write a joke? Like how do you write a joke? And I just really, really, really, really, really struggled until the teacher said, "Go and watch live stand-up comedy, so you can get a sense for the rhythm of what a five-minute set looks and feels like. So I go to this dodgy stand-up comedy night in Hampstead. I think it was called Monkey Business. I can't remember. This really weird guy was hosting it, and it was like so dodge, so budget. There was maybe 10 or 12 of us in the room, a little stage on top of this restaurant, a cafe rouge or something like that. This little brasserie chain, and they'd had some lamp from a desk, like a desk lamp hanging on from a rope to do like the stage. I'm not joking, like a stage. There was like this really weird. The whole thing was like Monty Python, and stand-up comedians go up, a couple go up, and the guy, the MC, was just awful, just wasn't funny at all. It's just one of these sort of like just awkward, and he comes back at one point, and he goes, "That's it. The second part acts have all dropped out, so I'm going to try and make a few phone calls. And I don't know, Macy, why I said this? Don't ask me why. I basically was like, "Look, I'm not a stand-up comedian. I don't have any material, but if you want me to go up there and fill fill up some space, I'll do it. He's like, "Really? You will? He's like, "Yay! Oh, amazing, amazing. So we come back from the break, and people were basically almost like on a mutiny level, booing him off the stage. Right? He goes, "Right, you know, and coming from North London, happening to Margaret, and so I get up and on that I get up on that stage, and I'm thinking to myself, "What am I doing up here? Like, what am I doing? And I bomb after bomb after bomb, and I try and make these jokes, and nothing works. But and here, ladies and gentlemen, is the story. The point of the story, I realized I was like, "Oh, it's the same thing as being on stage. I'm just as comfortable being in front of this random crowd of people that I am in front of a crowd of founders, CEOs, speakers, whatever. I just need material. It's just the material that I don't have, and so I had a very short amount of time between that moment and the actual performance at the stand-up comedy club, and I just wrote, like a few. I just wrote a few, but my jokes were more stories. Like it was more, it was more just weird things. And then on that night, I remember at the live event, some people who were crushing it during the six weeks bombed on on the actual event, or just weren't really clicking or connecting with the audience.
Speaker 1 32:59
And I got up on that stage, and and I loved it. It was amazing. Like people laugh. I could see how it's so addictive. Like you know, you land that first joke, people laugh. I had a few questionable jokes. I was like, probably should have gone there. But this is stand-up comedy, you know, freedom of speech, all that stuff. And yeah, so so you know, I pop that sort of bubble in that way, and I feel like singing's the next one.
Macy Robison 33:28
I love that story so much, and I love the idea that you gave yourself permission to do it because I think for a lot of folks, that's the piece that keeps us from having the impact that we're meant to have is giving ourselves permission, especially when there's something fighting us like perfectionism or
Speaker 1 33:46
yeah something. It's the permission to screw up. It's the permission to fail. I think for me, there's always been the. Even we were working together. I remember you were kind of saying, you know, I feel like, and this is this is and this has been reflected back to me. For example, will you know a sort of public speaking and storytelling coach as well in Canada. Was telling just finished reading my book, really generously. Sent me a lovely message on LinkedIn, say that he read my book and really enjoyed it. And then he was just like, "Man, I just want to know more about you, like more of the darkness, the flaws, the the fears, like where have you screwed up? Like, and I thought I felt like I was doing that, but I'm getting that as a feedback from people saying because it's the irony is that I help do just that. Like one of the things I do is I help people uncover the stories that connect most of their audience, their customers, their teammate members. And talking about music and storytelling and public speaking for me, it's really funny because I, you know, I sometimes help speakers land their message in a much more impactful way and understand how to carve and find stories and shape them in such a way that they really land. And for me, it's like music. It's really weird. There's two things where I see this happening. I see this in editing. So when I work with a video editor. I have a very peculiar style, and I have a very peculiar sort of, and it feels like music. It's like the way because I used to edit my vlogs and stuff on YouTube once upon a time, and so I have. There's a very specific rhythm to editing sometimes that, and it's like music, and it's the same thing with talks. I will listen to someone give a talk, and I will go, that note's not hitting. There's there's something off. There's a there's there's something off about that bit. We need to fix it. We need to tune it. We need to, and then we play with it, and then they deliver. Like that's it. That's the thing. We needed to move that there or this this. You need to say it that way, and so it really. I think that it's all interconnected, right? Whether that's because it's creativity, it's connection, it's flow, and I think that's how you create this deep sense of emotional connection with your audience, is when you find that thing inside of you that is so compelling to share, and you can share in such a way that people connect and resonate with.
Macy Robison 35:53
I think to the the thing that we talked about a lot in our calls together, and that I'm hearing again, even with you just saying that, is the thing that we are most able to teach is the thing we also need to do, and I know that that's been the case for me. Like the the things that I I've been kind of going through this in my own business over the last couple of weeks. The thing that I can show up and like stop hiding behind other thought leaders' businesses and show up with my own voice, like the system that I've created actually helps people do that, and I need to follow that as well. So, as you are stepping out and sharing your voice more, where where do you feel like you are going to find the balance in that of being willing to share and being vulnerable and wanting to push?
Speaker 1 36:40
Yeah. So here's here's the reality because I know that people and I get it, and this is a story I make up, by the way. I'm aware that this is also a story or narrative that I'm buying into and stuck with. But I serve two primary audiences, which comes with its own challenges. So on one end, I work with Fortune 500 companies. I've been very, very fortunate enough to work with amazing organizations like Nike or Microsoft or L'Oréal, Google, YouTube, that kind of stuff, Premier League and HS, blah blah blah. And so, in those settings, I tend to go and work with you know the the leadership team, or go and do sort of sessions about leadership impact and you know how to tell stories for impact and personal storytelling for authentic leadership, or that kind of stuff, and so that's a particular genre of audience. And then on the other side, I work with small business owners, speakers, founders, CEOs, business leaders, that kind of world, where in that specific sort of environment, I am way more comfortable to share a lot of the ups and downs. I'll give you an example. I recently did not get shortlisted for a public speaker awards, which even saying this out loud now, all my saboteurs are like, "Don't say it, Mark. But I didn't get. I didn't get nominated. I was really upset at first. I was just like, "This is like the fourth year that I haven't been like I got shortlisted last year but didn't win and you know that I haven't been shortlisted. Like I'm not bad, you know what's going on, and they made it all about me, and then I made it about the judges and the category. Even just like it just wasn't a good enough submission. Period. It's not that I'm not a good speaker. It's just that the the videos I selected, the application form that I filled in just wasn't what they were looking for, but so so. But I wrote about it because, like, on the outside, I do lots of really cool stuff, but there's also lots of stuff that I struggle with, and I think a lot of us can resonate with that. Like, we're not. I think it's easy to fall into this. And my TEDx talk, which I gave in 2017, did really well because I think I kind of spoke to the thing that most of us feel deep down are very afraid to talk about right, and I often say to people the story that you're most afraid to share is the story your audience most needs to hear, right? Right, like the story that you're most afraid to share is the story that your audience most needs to hear, and I believe that. And I'm also aware that I hold myself back because of that duality of audience, because I'm like in this space where it's entrepreneurs and stuff like I can talk about all that stuff. People vibe with it, like they get it. Go to the corporate world, like who am I going to get booked again? And so I, I wrote this piece just very honestly. Said, hey, and I called it the the the what is it called? Like the the the other side of courage, or the the you know the downside of courage is is pain or something. I forgot. I forget. But it's like this. If you're going to put yourself out there, and if you're going to try, you're going to fall short, and you're just going to keep going. That was kind of the message. And I said that. You know, I, I didn't get nominated after four years. And I remember my wife and some friends close to me, like, you should, you shouldn't write that. Like, you shouldn't have that online. I was like, why is that? Because someone's thinking about booking you as a speaker, going to see that, and then they're going to go like, would we bring this guy? He hasn't been nominated, and but I and I get there's a part of truth in that. There's a part of me that recognizes that, that knows that, but there's also a part of me that feels incredibly out of integrity with myself and with the audience that I'm also trying to serve, which is to say, like this is the very reason.
Speaker 1 39:59
Why I wrote this book, Low in the Dark. This is the very message I'm trying to share, which is, we have to stop pretending like we are cookie cutters. Both can be true. I can be an amazing and exceptionally inspiring speaker, and I can also have not been nominated for a speaker awards. Like those two things can coexist, and and I think the reason why I sometimes have the need to over share up a certain place is to to make sure that someone reading that doesn't feel alone. I think I think I often talk about that that you know one of the most powerful things you can do when you share your story is to you know allow someone else to not feel alone.
Macy Robison 40:36
I think that's right, and I it's interesting. You know, we were talking about Brene Brown and the irony of her being able to do the things that she's done with her career started with being vulnerable and basically giving herself a vulnerability hangover on a TEDx stage. So I think there's a lot of truth in that. The people who are meant to work with you and and benefit from the voice that you have will find you if you're willing to share it, and and that's the I think opportunity for all of us. And really appreciate you kind of walking through some of those things and sharing some vulnerable pieces of that today with the audience. You came to this work before there was an assessment, and one of the things I do like to ask near the end of an interview like this is for someone who just maybe took the assessment and got their archetype and isn't quite sure what to do with the label that it returned to them. What would you tell them?
Speaker 1 41:33
Well, I think I think there's two there's two folds. It's kind of like the first one is see how it lands and and and see what comes up, you know? Do you feel resistance? Do you feel seen? And then the question is, what you know? You've asked yourself, do you want to do something about it or not? And both are fine. But if you want to do something about it, or if you've been curious about it, just just have a call with you, and just just book a call with you and just basically say, "Hey, here's what I got, and have a sort of consultation call, and then then from that one, you can decide whether you want to invest more in in figuring out how that can spill into your business and into your services, or if you just want to have a little bit of awareness and go off on your own and and see how you get along. Yeah, I think I think there's everything has a time and place, and for some people, it's not ready until it's ready. But I do believe that there is there is a thing, you know, such a thing as transitioning from awareness to to action, and I think that's where you you you could potentially be the bridge.
Macy Robison 42:38
I love that. Thank you for saying that. I um, I think that's always the option and always the choice. Like we have this data, we have this information, we we know what works, and then what action are we going to take? Are we going to get on the stage? Are we going to take the lesson and get out there and sing? I would love for you to share some of the places where people could find your work if they're interested in reading your book and learning more,
Speaker 1 43:03
yeah, the central website is marklaruse.com. That's m a r k l e r u s t e.com, and the social media platform that I am active and only use at the moment is LinkedIn. You can find me at Mark Larust. Please say hi if you listen to this. Drop me a DM and just say, just quote Macy, so I know that listen to this conversation. And there's anything I can do to help, and by all means, let me know. And and just like you, and you know the power of assessments. I've got an assessment to help you figure out where you are on your journey of turning your story into your most powerful asset. And it's a free sort of diagnosis that you can do in your own time. And happy to share that with you.
Macy Robison 43:41
Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 43:43
Thanks, Macy.
Macy Robison 43:45
Now, after listening to that conversation with Mark, here's what I would love for you to sit with. What I've been thinking about too. He said something in the middle of that conversation that has been on my mind really ever since. When we were talking about his speaking ability, how high his score was, and the knowledge that that provided him. He said, "I haven't been very quick to act on it. I haven't leaned enough into the superpower that I know that I have. And I think that's so fascinating from someone who wrote a book called "Glow in the Dark. That standing out is the way. He knows that this ability that he has to stand out when we measure it is so high, 94% and his honest answer is, I know, and I haven't done much about it. Now I want to be careful because what he's talking about is not a discipline problem of any kind. It's not procrastination. You heard me tell Mark in the interview, that a very high score on these archetype assessments gives you permission. It tells you this is a really clear signal. You've got permission to go for it, which is wonderful. But there's opposition in all things, and the opposing force that often works against a high score like that is the vulnerability. Feeling exposed, I sometimes talk about these archetype blends. Your top five on the test, like if you would put it on a mixing board, one signal the the primary archetype. When you got to score that high, it's turned up so high that it's carrying the whole track. It's the soloist. It's Beyonce. It's Adele. It's like the person that can be on stage and can hold the whole thing. That's thrilling and it's exciting to watch and it's probably exciting to be up there. But it's also the most exposed position in the room. And I think what I've figured out since we recorded this conversation is the practical part of that. I didn't have language for it when we were talking, but here's what I think now. You've heard me talk about how I have three scores that are very close together. It's like a three-legged stool. It's a three-girl voice power group. I've got to like combine my three top archetypes together to create the clearest signal that I can create. But when you have a score that's very high sitting there all by itself, like Mark does. The thing that you score highest in is the thing that needs your attention most when it comes to creation, not just performance. It needs time. You need time to verbally process things. You need time to sit with your words. You need time to express your ideas. You need space. It needs attention, and that's difficult to do. And it needs that time, space, and attention. Not because it's something you're bad at; it's because you're so good that everyone, sometimes including ourselves, assume that that ability takes care of itself, and so it doesn't get scheduled and it doesn't get practiced. It gets whatever is left over after all of the other things we have to do in a day. Mark's analogy for this early in the conversation when he said, "You know, imagine you're going to the Olympics and you get to pick from seven disciplines, and you ask which one you're most likely to win, ask which one you're most likely to enjoy, find the one that's both that's the gold. I think some of us inadvertently choose the things we're not as good at. LinkedIn, you know, writing things, trying to play the game the way LinkedIn tells everybody to play it. To me, when we have a a high, really clear score like this, we know our event in the Olympics that we can win. That's easy. That's fun. That's gets us the most attention, and we choose instead to play a different one to go for a different event. But then I love that he went and took singing lessons, which I think is the most exposed version of using our voice that can exist with no professional reason to do it at all. And I love that his teacher told him to stop saying he can't sing unless he wants to be a liar because he can.
Macy Robison 47:36
And I don't think that's separate from this work that he has as a thought leader to own his impact, I think that's the whole thing. So, if you've been to the workshop and you've got your report and your primary archetype is very high, read that number as data. Read it as an instruction about where your calendar time should go. And if you don't know your number yet, the link to the assessment is in the show notes. You need to take that first, or go to Macy robison.com forward slash quiz. And if you want to take that primary archetype and see what the shape of it is behind the scenes, I would love to see you at one of my workshops. MacyRobison.com/workshop. Here's to sending a clearer, more resonant signal, and I'll meet you back here next week. Thank you for joining me on Own Your Impact. Remember, there are people out there right now who need exactly what you know, exactly how you'll say it. Your voice matters. Your expertise matters, and most importantly, the transformation you can help others create matters. If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love for you to become part of our growing community of thought leaders who are committed to creating meaningful impact. Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you know who is ready to amplify their voice. And if you're ready to dive deeper, visit MacyRobison.com for additional resources, frameworks, and tools to help you build your thought leadership platform with intention and purpose. And remember, your ideas don't need more luck. Your ideas don't need more volume. Your ideas need a system. And I'm here every week to help you build it. I'm Macy Robison, and this is own your impact.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai