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Winning the Junior Duck Stamp Contest changed Madison Grimm’s life. Now she’s helping save hundreds of ducks...

Host Katie Burke is joined by wildlife artists Adam Grimm and Madison Grimm during the Federal Duck Stamp Contest to discuss art, conservation, and how a childhood passion for painting ducks led to one of the most unique waterfowl projects in the country.

The conversation begins with the Duck Stamp Contest and the challenges artists face when competing at the highest level. From there, Madison shares the remarkable story behind Second Chance Flight, a nonprofit that rescues duck eggs and ducklings displaced during farming operations across the Prairie Pothole Region. What started with a backyard aviary has grown into a conservation effort involving farmers, wildlife agencies, researchers, banding projects, and even GPS-equipped ducks helping answer important scientific questions.

This episode is equal parts art, conservation, and innovation—and a reminder that one person’s passion can create real impact for waterfowl.

Topics Covered
  • The 2026 Federal Duck Stamp Contest
  • How judges evaluate Duck Stamp artwork
  • Madison Grimm’s Junior Duck Stamp success
  • Building a backyard aviary in the Prairie Pothole Region
  • The origins of Second Chance Flight
  • Rescuing duck eggs, ducklings, pheasants, and turkeys
  • Working with farmers across South Dakota
  • GPS transmitters, banding, and waterfowl research
  • The future of conservation through community involvement

Listen now: www.ducks.org/DUPodcast
Send feedback: DUPodcast@ducks.org

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Creators and Guests

Host
Katie Burke
DUPodcast Co-Host

What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?

Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.

VO:

The following episode of the DU Podcast features a video component. For the full experience, visit the Ducks Unlimited channel on YouTube. Subscribe and enjoy.

VO:

You're tuned in to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. Conserving wetlands, restoring habitat, and working to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow, and forever. From field tested hunting insights to the biggest conservation wins across North America, this is your front row seat to wetlands conservation in action. The DU Podcast is proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're wrapping up a hunt with your best friend or kicking back with your crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment.

VO:

Enjoy responsibly.

Katie Burke:

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Burke. I'm also joined by cohost, Kayci.

Kayci Haider:

Nice to be here today. Love to show up on the podcast.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Well, this is the first time I've gotten to do one. Well, I've done, like, a big groupie weird one, but this is the first time we've done, like For real interviews. Yeah. So it's exciting.

Katie Burke:

We're also joined by two wildlife artists, Adam and Madison Grimm, and Madison is also the founder of Second Chance Flight. So welcome to the show.

Madison Grimm:

Thank you. Thank you for having us on.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Well, you've been on... How many times have you been on, Adam? At least twice.

Adam Grimm:

A number of times, but I've never been here.

Katie Burke:

No. You've never been here in person. Special.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. But

Katie Burke:

you've been on at least twice.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. At

Katie Burke:

least twice. At least twice. And then, Madison, this is your first time.

Madison Grimm:

It's exciting. Yeah. I haven't watched a lot of them. So happy.

Katie Burke:

That that makes me nervous. I don't like to... I don't know if I like that. So, anyway... But...

Katie Burke:

So this year, it... Y'all are here in person, and it's really special because it is the first year that Ducks Unlimited is hosting the federal duck stamp competition, which is a long time coming. I'm not sure why this is the first time, considering it's been going on for '34... Since 1934, and we've been there 1937. But it's a long partnership, and I'm sure y'all felt it.

Katie Burke:

But it's been really neat to be in the office this week because our missions align so closely, and it's been such a long partnership. And just the staff in general have been really excited about it. When they put the art out on, I guess, it was Wednesday, like, so... I mean, you should've seen all the people. They were just, like, running up there to go see it.

Adam Grimm:

They're all

Katie Burke:

duck people. Yeah. And they're always... And we all, like, are very... You know, we all learn about the duck stamp very early, and we all are very, like, interested in who wins.

Katie Burke:

So it was just really exciting to see everyone get excited about it. And I don't know if it's like that at other venues, but it was very exciting to have that.

Adam Grimm:

Now this is one of the best venues I've ever been to. I mean, I'm thinking they should have it here every year. It's great.

Katie Burke:

I I mean, I love that. Regular... I'd love that too, but at least a regular cure. I'd like to be in the rotation.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So the rotation.

Katie Burke:

Yes. So it's been good. So... And then... Because this was also the first time for me because, like like, Rebecca and I and I were just talking about, like, we get really excited when the...

Katie Burke:

We get to see... Like, whenever the pictures are released, like, I'll be at work, and I'm like, okay. Well, that can wait. I wanna look at all these pictures for the next, like, hour.

Adam Grimm:

The artists usually are calling each other and, like, hey. Have you seen this one? Or go to this page. I mean, it's... That day is very busy online.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah.

Katie Burke:

For sure. Yeah. I'm always super excited about it. And then so... But this is the first time I've gotten to see it in person.

Katie Burke:

And so, like, usually, I'll go through it, and I'll have, like, my five picked out. Like... Well,. And then... But this year, because we got to go see it, I was like, oh, no.

Katie Burke:

Now I have a new five.

Adam Grimm:

I mean, everyone likes to have people see their entry and are excited about it. So it's it's a double edged sword a little bit. Like, I I think I think posting online is fine. I just think probably the day... The morning of the contest would be a safer thing.

Adam Grimm:

I mean, we waited... It's like, you wait this long, you could wait an extra week or so to

Kayci Haider:

Right.

Adam Grimm:

Just see him on that day. But

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Because there was definitely a few... Like, Tony's, for sure. When I saw it online, I wasn't as impressed with it when I saw it in person because his colors just did not come through. It was very flat

Adam Grimm:

Yep.

Katie Burke:

On the on the types

Adam Grimm:

of colors are... Like, I've had entries that look super yellowy. I have no idea why. I even tried switching paints. I went from oil paints to acrylics thinking maybe this will fix it.

Adam Grimm:

No. I don't know what it is that... It's like... And it's not the lighting in my studio because I look at it under other light and outside. And so I have no idea why when it's scanned sometimes...

Adam Grimm:

Not every time, but sometimes they look yellowy. And Yeah. It's like, oh.

Kayci Haider:

Yeah. We were reviewing some of them on our way back. So we were driving back from Iowa yesterday, and when we stopped from lunch, we pulled up, you know

Madison Grimm:

Yeah.

Kayci Haider:

The judging. And getting to see some of them today rather than what I was looking at yesterday, yeah, I was just kind of flabbergasted. Yeah. Because I was like, I like that one, but on screen yesterday, I was like, you know? And then I come see it in person.

Kayci Haider:

I'm like, okay. Big difference now.

Madison Grimm:

I understand.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. And even some that, like, I saw online that I kind of, like, overlooked, and then I saw them in person. It's like, oh, that one's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

There was that... There's definitely, like, one of the long tails that I was, like, looking at last night. Was like, that one's actually pretty good. Yeah. But I was like, online, I was like, oh, it just looks simple.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. And and I know that, like, the judges have their displays, or at least I think they have it this year too. They've had it in the other years where they're showing them the painting. Mhmm. Right?

Adam Grimm:

And they go in front of each judge. And while the painting's not in front of them at that moment, it's in front of the other judge, they're looking at a screen that has it on there. So they're still looking at the scan, and I think... I mean, I know that they have plenty of time to see the originals while they're here. So that's that's good.

Adam Grimm:

But, yeah, I almost think, like, unless the scans are really professionally done, it'd probably be better for the judges to never view the scans.

Kayci Haider:

As an artist, I can imagine. You don't want them to see your art that way.

Katie Burke:

I mean... Yeah. Right. It's not the way it was intended to be viewed.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. So, you know, like, I... Again, it's kind of a double edged sword because you want them to be able to, like, really look at the painting. But like I said, there's plenty of time for them to review the originals. So

Katie Burke:

Yeah. And it's tough at that beginning because there's so many now. They're Mhmm. So I heard last night they went... What...

Katie Burke:

How... Well, how long ago? Was only a 150, and now it's 330?

Adam Grimm:

It wasn't that many years. Yeah. Richie Prager, the year he judged, I think he said there was, like, a 150 entries. And, I mean, one of the years that I won

Katie Burke:

It was 2019?

Adam Grimm:

One of the years, I think there was, like, 242. And then I don't remember what what it was the last time with the canvas back. But... Yeah. I mean, it...

Adam Grimm:

You know, it's been hovering around that two range. So to see it over 300 is is good. Mean, I it's exciting.

VO:

Welcome to the Old Timer Minute, sponsored by Old Timer Knives.

Katie Burke:

If I could relive any hunt, it's a pretty simple one. And I guess I get to relive it a lot, but it's by far my favorite hunt. We were at Bailey Break. It was me, my dad, and my brother, which, you know, if I can hunt with those two people every day, that would be the best. But it was me, my dad, and my brother, and we were in the Peabody Blind at Bailey Break.

Katie Burke:

And we... Well, actually, we weren't in the Peabody round. We notoriously don't stand inside blinds. We were standing in front of the Peabody Blind at, Bailey Break. And it was just a perfect day.

Katie Burke:

I think we went in, like, late that morning, and it was a perfect day. And, I mean, we were out of there probably in forty five minutes. But I did not get a banded duck. We had three ducks come in, three Drakes, and we all picked one. Like, we put them in order.

Katie Burke:

You know, you guys take the left. You take the right. I'll take the middle. And my dad and my brother shot. We all got one.

Katie Burke:

They all fell. And then once my dad and brother shot, both had bands on them. And that was probably one of the best hunts I've ever been on.

VO:

Visit the oldtimer.com.

Katie Burke:

Alright. So, Madison, when you were doing your stamp for this year... So this is your second federal. Right? Yep.

Katie Burke:

So you did last year. You did a wood duck last year.

Madison Grimm:

I did. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. And so this is your second federal. What, were the choices you're... So I know you did it late. So what was going into that, and what were your choices to finally, like, get yours in?

Katie Burke:

And you are into the second round. I am. We can say that this is gonna be late anyway.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. We won't tell you what what it is. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Well, it won't matter. It's not gonna air

Madison Grimm:

till Yeah. Yeah. But...

Katie Burke:

Yeah. So, but... Yeah. So what was your process of choosing and, like, how you did your composition and all of that?

Madison Grimm:

Well, we had really pretty good king eater reference, which was actually from an aviary. It was actually the same girl that my dad got his spectacle eater reference from.

Katie Burke:

She's one

Madison Grimm:

of were all in the same pen, so it was really cool. He took a number of pictures when he was there. She sent me some pictures before, and so I just thought of the species. That's probably what I've got the best reference of. And they're such a cool duck.

Madison Grimm:

Like, if you can play with the lighting and stuff because of the contrast. Yeah. The design, I don't know. I had a lot of struggles with it because, like, I wanted to work certain elements in, but it's like, how do you make everything fit and make the bird big enough? I wish I could have done a hen in with it, but just didn't even have hen reference.

Madison Grimm:

My friend doesn't have a hen at all. Oh, yeah. It's like It's her fault. Gets tricky. It's her fault.

Madison Grimm:

There's no hen.

Katie Burke:

Okay. So if you

Madison Grimm:

don't win,

Katie Burke:

we'll just blame her.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. Yep. But, yeah, putting it together, I I should have started it way earlier, but with everything else going on, I was like, I don't know if we're even gonna have time to do an entry this year. I wasn't... I mean, I wasn't really planning on it, I guess.

Madison Grimm:

But then dad said, you know, it was gonna be here and everything else going on. And, yeah, he's like, I don't know if we should go if you don't even have an entry in it.

Adam Grimm:

That was

Katie Burke:

my that

Adam Grimm:

was my my line of the sand. I'm like, you either have to have an entry, or we're not gonna bother going.

Katie Burke:

So that put

Madison Grimm:

a lot of pressure on me to to go without it. Yeah. To quickly put one together. And I wish I could have spent a little longer on it, but it was like, you just... You hate to push it, like, right to the deadline and, like, risk it not getting there or something at a good time.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. And so does So because we just talked to Rebecca and I, and she said she turned hers in really early, and she was towards the front. So maybe it must. Maybe. So maybe a little bit.

Madison Grimm:

You

Adam Grimm:

know? So I don't know.

Madison Grimm:

Know? Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Like, I like... Well, because you did the... You have the eider, which I think is the thing, like, people do like bright, shiny things, and it is the most colorful one in the bunch.

Katie Burke:

So Yeah. Though, you never know. Like, the species thing is it's really hard

Madison Grimm:

to tell. To compare species like that to each other because it's such a huge range. It's like Yeah.

Katie Burke:

It's a second one. They put up a list, like, what was the most in it? It was, blue wing till then neither.

Adam Grimm:

Oh, I didn't even see that.

Madison Grimm:

And it

Katie Burke:

was, like, was, like, so of the only things I saw, but I think it was the second most

Adam Grimm:

It's always hard. Like, when I did the spectacled eider, my fear was this is a weird looking duck, and most people have never seen it. They don't migrate south. Right? So I'm thinking, is it really worth doing a bird?

Adam Grimm:

Like, people are... If they don't know the ducks species in

Katie Burke:

general The good thing is, though, you had a source, which I'm saying most people have no source for a spectacled eider.

Adam Grimm:

No. It's almost impossible. That's why I really... I was gonna do Hoodemaker Ganzars. All the way through, was gonna do Hoodemaker Ganzars.

Adam Grimm:

And then

Madison Grimm:

The whole reason he went there was to get reference for the Hoodemaker Ganzars. And her pregnancy. Yeah. She had

Adam Grimm:

she had several really nice drakes. I'm like, alright. This will work great. So we went there, took all these pictures. The sun was getting low in that pen.

Adam Grimm:

She had this other pen that had these eiders, and I was like, well, there's still sun in that pen. Maybe I'll take some pictures while I'm here. And so I'm laying there on the ground taking these pictures of these birds thinking, I think I should paint this. Like, I I think I'm messing up. Like, this is...

Adam Grimm:

They were stunning in that evening light. And so that's what I ended up doing, and and I was pretty excited about it as I was working on the painting, and I had a guy from our town stopped over and saw... He was just BS ing with me in my studio while I was painting. Had not said a word about my painting. And I was like, alright.

Adam Grimm:

Whatever. And so I just was still painting, and I was feeling pretty good about it. Was like 90% of the way done. And he's looking over my shoulder, and I thought it was weird he wasn't saying anything. Well, then he finally said, man, that is one ugly duck.

Adam Grimm:

It was like a dagger through my heart. I'm like

Katie Burke:

It is a funny looking duck, though.

Adam Grimm:

But then I thought, he's... Harvey's right. Like, I'm screwed. Like, this is not... Like...

Adam Grimm:

And I had I finished the painting because I had no time to do anything else, but I I went into that year's contest thinking, like, I've got no chance. Like, I screwed up painting this species, and and it totally let the wind out of my sails on everything. But, yeah. So it was it was a big surprise when I got that call. And then the first thing I did was called Harvey.

Adam Grimm:

I'm like, remember that ugly duck?

Katie Burke:

Guess Guess what? It won. It won.

Madison Grimm:

So there. Yeah. Because...

Katie Burke:

Well, I mean, they had that... There's two things. Well, this year, I think it... I think it'll be fine for the the eider, obviously, because so many people did it. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Like, because it's one of the majority ones. And then, like, we were talking about, like, the cackling goose has the same problem because it looks like a a funny looking Canada goose.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. And the model duck is brown. It looks like it looks like a mallard, like, that's trying to be a mallard but isn't getting there. Right? Because it looks like two hens, but one has

Katie Burke:

the yellow bill. Quite a black duck.

Kayci Haider:

It's not

Adam Grimm:

quite a black duck. You know? So there's, yeah, of the species choices... And artists do look at that. Personally, I've actually even told people, like, I...

Adam Grimm:

Like, Ducks sample office staff, like, I wish it was just one species because that would eliminate the apples to oranges comparison. Right? Like, you're... It's not a species contest at that point. It's like, okay.

Adam Grimm:

Well, what's the best old squaw? Or what's the best king eider? Right? Model duck. But you're comparing only model ducks to model ducks at that point.

Adam Grimm:

And that would be a lot better for an artist because that would eliminate you trying to think about, you know, are they gonna like this species? Like, have they ever seen or heard of this species? Because if I'm not even sure if they know the duck species

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Because how do they know there's something wrong with the duck species if you don't know the duck? And I think of that too. Like like, yeah, I don't really know what a king eider... Like, I've never really...

Katie Burke:

I mean, I've never seen a king eider in person. Yeah. I know what they look like because I work at Ducks Unlimited, and I work... And I've been around ducks my whole life. But, like, I can look at a blue winged tail.

Katie Burke:

I'm like, that looks funny. It Like, that's wrong. That Right. That bill is not on that bird.

Adam Grimm:

But see, a king item

Kayci Haider:

help and hurt you at

Adam Grimm:

the

Kayci Haider:

same time.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. Because when you think people are familiar with mallards Yeah. That's the most common duck people think of when they picture a duck. And so the more it gets away from looking like a mallard, the more I think people start to feel like it's weird.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Right? So a king niter looks really weird compared to a mallard. They're beautiful. Right?

Adam Grimm:

Don't get me wrong. They're beautiful. But if you have people that aren't familiar with the duck species, yeah, is that gonna be a problem?

Kayci Haider:

They can't tell if it looks like what it's supposed to or if it just looks weird because to them, it's unfamiliar. Right?

Katie Burke:

So they're like, oh, maybe bad. Right? Yeah. So there's there's good things about it, like, because maybe they won't catch something, and then there's bad things about it because maybe they just think it looks funny.

Kayci Haider:

And it's a little captivating. Right? If it's not something traditional that you see, like, it's captivating. You do look at it, but then it's kinda like when you say a word too many times. Like, you're like, is it really a word?

Adam Grimm:

As a duck hunter as a duck hunter, like, I take mallards for granted cause we we shoot quite a few mallards. Yeah. And it's always exciting to shoot something that's like a pintail or a widgeon. It's like, oh, a little more exciting. It's different.

Adam Grimm:

You know? I think if there were king eiders everywhere around, people would think mallards were weird looking. So Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Know? True. It's like what you know. Right?

Madison Grimm:

It's what you know.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. So I wanna go into... Because I talked about it on a few things, but I wanna talk about the junior duck stamp. And you're, like, the

Madison Grimm:

the model.

Katie Burke:

You're the you're the, like, the model of the junior duck stamp program. And we'll add Rebecca on to, like, y'all, like, the exact product that you want to come out of the junior duck stamp program. Mhmm. So you've won three times. Yep.

Katie Burke:

We were six the first time you won. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So, can you speak about that experience and how that helped?

Katie Burke:

I mean, you have a little bit of different experience because you have your dad as a wildlife artist. But can you speak about that experience and how, like, it has transitioned into, like, going into the federal and what it meant to you to do all those, to do the juniors duck hunt program.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So I think for me, it was kinda natural, I guess, even though dad, I guess, never had expected that any of his kids would interested in painting. But, you know, most kids never get to really be out around wildlife, around ducks, be involved in, like, a conservation type thing. So it's it's a really cool program, and I always encourage every... Any kid I know that's interested in anything with wildlife or nature to enter it because, you know, there's...

Madison Grimm:

Even for the state contest, you know, they have so many winners. It's like everyone gets something, which is a really cool rewarding thing for a kid. And they get to learn so much about wildlife in the process and, you know, go out and get their own reference sometimes and all that. So it's a really cool program. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

I was very fortunate to win it three times and getting to do the traveling and getting the experience and, you know, getting out, getting my own reference, going photographing with my dad, stuff I probably wouldn't have done otherwise, I guess, if I'd gotten that kind of start.

Adam Grimm:

So tell them how you got started even in doing it, how that... For you entering the first time, what happened?

Madison Grimm:

Well, I loved watching dad paint in the aviary. That was always my... Or I loved watching dad paint in his studio. Sorry. Aviary.

Madison Grimm:

And I just remember, like, some of my earliest memories are just sitting in there just watching him paint, and it was just so cool to see him take, like, just a blank board essentially and just bring something basically almost out of nothing onto it. Like, it's the closest people can get to, like, creating something. I always feel like... And, you know, give give the life to whatever animal you're painting. Like, try and capture the personality, its soul.

Madison Grimm:

And it was just so fascinating to me. I could just sit there for hours and just watch him.

Katie Burke:

Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

And so when I was five, I apparently... I don't even really remember this part, but I went to my parents and told them I wanted to do a painting like daddy does. You was my wife. Yeah. Told her.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. And she she didn't know what to tell me. She's like, you have to talk to dad about that. Yeah. So so he told me about the junior duck stamp contest and said I could try doing an entry.

Madison Grimm:

It's k through 12, so I was like, the very, very young end of it. Like, just, yeah, just eligible. So he had kinda... He decided to teach me some things, and, I mean, I didn't really know about painting. I had watched it, but, I mean, I instantly wanted it to look like his paintings, and I didn't know how to get it there.

Madison Grimm:

So Yeah. So just the the learning had it. It was oil paint at the time, so, like, the rolling background type stuff and blending, mixing colors, all that. I didn't really have any idea about any of it. Even just, like, going through reference type stuff, identifying, like, you know, how to make it look like how your reference looks or how the duck is supposed to look.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, just just a lot of hours of just practicing. I think I started the painting several times and had to restart it. So

Adam Grimm:

and she... And even at that age, she knew, like, a lot of the duck species. And so I'd let her pick. I was like, well, what do you wanna try to paint? So she wanted to try to paint a canvas back.

Adam Grimm:

And I said, well, that's probably good because they're a little simpler than Mhmm. Some of the other species that you play to Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

That's a

Kayci Haider:

lot of busy.

Madison Grimm:

That's a

Katie Burke:

busy. So

Adam Grimm:

so then I I let her go through my reference stuff, and she went... All pictures I had taken. And so she found a pic... One of the pictures she wanted to try to paint from. I was like, yeah.

Adam Grimm:

You can use that. That's fine. And so I talked with her about it. I said, well, what color is a CanvasPacks bill? Right?

Adam Grimm:

And she said black. I said, right. I said, but look at this picture. Does it look black in this picture? And I said, do see any other colors?

Adam Grimm:

Well, she could see browns and grays. And and I said, right. So when you paint it, I'm gonna try to paint that. Right? Don't just paint what's in your head, what you think, you know, like symbols.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Like people do the sun with the lines and the waves

Madison Grimm:

like this.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Don't... Just paint it what you are seeing in the reference. And she took so long. And I was like, I mean, she would be in my studio painting even when I wasn't in there.

Adam Grimm:

Like... And she had a little table set up. It was, like, the cutest thing. And... Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

And... But but she kept working. I mean, there were times she would she was crying because it wasn't turning out like she was wanting. It was really funny.

Madison Grimm:

Didn't know how to get how I wanted it yet. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. But but she ended up, you know, muddling through it,

Madison Grimm:

got it on done. And for, like, a year probably.

Adam Grimm:

She was upset it wasn't gonna be done in time for the deadline. I'm like, well, you could just enter it next year. It doesn't even matter. Like Yeah. I'm like, this doesn't even matter.

Adam Grimm:

Good to have

Madison Grimm:

it in that

Katie Burke:

year. Something doesn't matter.

Adam Grimm:

I didn't think she would have any chance anyway. Like, I I mean, I thought maybe for her age group... Like, it was pretty good. I thought maybe for her age group, she might win ribbon

Madison Grimm:

something. So...

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I've got a lot of six year olds in

Katie Burke:

it. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

But I had no thought that it could ever actually win this best of show in the state and then go on to compete nationally and win nationally. Like, that caught my wife and I so off guard. And Madison was... I still remember, she was like, oh, she was so excited.

Madison Grimm:

And I'm like,

Adam Grimm:

you don't understand. Like, you're gonna have to give speeches. Like, I'm like, don't even know how this is gonna work. So...

Katie Burke:

Yeah. I didn't even think about that, but it's true. They have to, like, travel and go around.

Adam Grimm:

There's a

Katie Burke:

I cannot imagine my seven year old

Adam Grimm:

Oh, no. There's a

Madison Grimm:

video a podium.

Adam Grimm:

Of Madison at six years old at Bass Pro Shop, and I think she was in front of, like, three or 400 people, and she got up and gave, like, a two or three minute speech.

Katie Burke:

It was

Madison Grimm:

That was my peak, just so everyone knows. Don't expect It too much was phenomenal.

Adam Grimm:

And people thought we were, like, what are they called? Like, dragon parents or something. Like like, no. Like, Madison literally wrote most of

Madison Grimm:

that speech herself. Funny because I remember... We found the paper not that long ago. My speech written out, and it was, all the stuff spelled wrong, but I, like, had everything. I had sections, and, like, I had

Katie Burke:

my You're such own an oldest daughter. Aw.

Madison Grimm:

It was a stretch out. It was it was great. Yeah. You take James, and it's like, doesn't even wanna write his school paper. There were people who

Adam Grimm:

didn't believe Madison painted it after... Well, we actually filmed her doing time lapse... A time lapse thing of her doing artwork, and then people were like, oh, okay. Well, then her speech at Bass Pro that that same year, people were even more like, okay. Like, maybe she's not quite like the typical six year old kid.

Adam Grimm:

So

Katie Burke:

She's unique. Yeah. It's pretty funny. So, yeah, you... That was your six year old.

Katie Burke:

So then you won again. How old were you the second time?

Madison Grimm:

I sat

Kayci Haider:

out for How a did

Madison Grimm:

You only have to sit out one year, but it was just, like, so much at that age, and I loved it, but it, like, it kinda burnt me out. I... Even, like, school. Like, school, I didn't do, like, any school that whole year because it was work. Like, I was doing remarks.

Madison Grimm:

I was traveling. I was... There was so much stuff, interviews. And, yeah, it was it was awesome, but it took it took a, yeah, a recovery period. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. Yep. So I... They decided that... Or, I mean, I I kinda decided I would love to try and do another entry.

Madison Grimm:

And, you know, it had... We had moved... Since then, we moved up to where our house is now up in Northeastern South Dakota, and it was a lot more fun getting to go photographing with dad up there because it was like there were ducks everywhere. So it wasn't real hard to get anywhere. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. A lot of a lot of inspiration, and I decided at 12, yeah, that I I wanted to try entering it that year because it had been quite a while, and I was like, you know, it'd be it'd be really cool if I could try and win again. Like, I feel like I have a lot more experience, know a lot more now

Katie Burke:

to painting during that time? So just, like, off and on?

Madison Grimm:

A little bit. I mean, I just, I don't know. I just kinda taken... Yeah. I just really

Adam Grimm:

we on?

Madison Grimm:

I should have done more, and I just... Yeah.

Katie Burke:

We were

Madison Grimm:

doing so much other stuff. I think

Kayci Haider:

it's good to take a break.

Madison Grimm:

I think

Katie Burke:

so too. I I inspire. Yeah. I think this all the time is, like, as a coaching kids and, like, some kids just, like, their parents are like, what can they do in the off season? I'm like, play.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. They can play.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Play. Feel like it may be better to

Katie Burke:

to take a break.

Adam Grimm:

I always think people think that we, like, try to push our kids into it. And it's like Yeah. Madison's the only one that ever wanted to try to do it. Yeah. And we never pushed any of our kids.

Adam Grimm:

And our... None of our other kids do art. Well, actually, Jonas does some drawing and stuff, but not like

Madison Grimm:

I wish they would have tried

Adam Grimm:

manning the juniors Jonas wants to try. He actually said he wants to try. I'll I'll probably

Madison Grimm:

His attention span is not great. I'm I'm interested in

Katie Burke:

seeing how

Madison Grimm:

that goes.

Adam Grimm:

We have to have the right

Madison Grimm:

hope he can do it. Yeah. He...

Adam Grimm:

I think... Yeah. I actually think he could. He's he's... He did that one drawing.

Adam Grimm:

He's put a lot of time in. So... Yeah. But he

Katie Burke:

Does he have ADHD? Then he can, like, hyperfocus. Because there is like a superpower we have. Right. We can...

Katie Burke:

If we want to,

Madison Grimm:

we can on certain things for

Katie Burke:

short times. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But then we we don't have really good follow through.

Katie Burke:

We can't even get to a place where we're like, oh, now I'm bored.

Adam Grimm:

You know what saying? I will say all of my kids actually have artistic ability. Like, I can see it. But if you don't have the right disposition Mhmm. You're not gonna ever really work and develop it.

Adam Grimm:

You

Katie Burke:

Mhmm. That's true. Like, like, I I think if you're gonna be an artist... An artsy person, like, if you have that, like, it's the artist thing that you

Adam Grimm:

that term.

Katie Burke:

I know. It's person. Whatever. If you're gonna be into art

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

You are going to do it. Yeah. Like, those kids are gonna draw.

Madison Grimm:

Yep.

Katie Burke:

And they're they're gonna draw no matter what. You can't stop them from drawing.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah.

Katie Burke:

And and if you don't naturally do that, I don't really know if you're gonna do it. I mean, you can still be good.

Madison Grimm:

Can't really, like, acquire the

Katie Burke:

the passion. Yeah. If

Madison Grimm:

you're not

Katie Burke:

the person who doodles on your notebook, I don't think you're gonna be the person who, like Yeah. Goes for it. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. I agree. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Because it's... Even if you may be good at it, I don't think you'd actually try... Yeah. It's just kind of a something you kinda have to do.

Adam Grimm:

That was, like, all I did in school

Katie Burke:

was doodle all the I did in school. Was that

Madison Grimm:

doodle? I know. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

You can go through this. It's, all doodles.

Adam Grimm:

I used to get in trouble.

Madison Grimm:

I was

Katie Burke:

working there. Around the work, there is doodles. They make us sit in a lot of really boring meetings that could be emails.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. I used to I used to hear complaints from teachers and my parents until, like, they were like, these are actually pretty good. Like, then then it started to be okay.

Kayci Haider:

No. It's hard to be mad at you when you're actually talented. You know? Like

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. And I wasn't really that good at the schoolwork anyway. So I spent most of my time doing the artwork.

Katie Burke:

So Yeah. It worked out okay.

Madison Grimm:

It worked out. Yeah. Yep.

Katie Burke:

That's fine. So... Okay. You... What do you win when you win the junior Ducks stamp?

Madison Grimm:

Like because they... A lot the time, they'll do, like, a... Like, an award ceremony type thing, which is really fun for all the kids to get to go to. And they have, like, gift type bags they hand out and ribbons, and so it's fun. But, yeah, mostly just, I mean, if you win, you know, the traveling and selling the painting and making prints and that kind of thing.

Adam Grimm:

The beauty of the Junior Ducks Ant program is that it gets kids actually looking at ducks.

Madison Grimm:

Mhmm.

Adam Grimm:

And people don't care to conserve what they don't know about. So if they know about ducks and... Like, is... And if you're looking online even, like, what should I try to paint? Like, there's all these different duck species.

Adam Grimm:

You might actually be excited if you go out and you look into some pond and like, hey, that... I think that was a redhead. I've never seen one of those before. Whereas before, they never would have maybe looked.

Katie Burke:

So Right.

Adam Grimm:

I always think, like, just on that level. Yeah. I mean, I know they kinda thought, like, it might get kids interested in the adult contest down the road, but really, to me, the the big the big element of this program is that it's getting kids interested in ducks and making them aware of the species.

Katie Burke:

I mean, even if it just gets them to think about buying a duck stamp later in life. Yeah. A big deal. Yeah. Like, that's a success story right there.

Adam Grimm:

Thing. People won't buy a duck stamp or they won't support groups like Ducks Unlimited if they don't know about the ducks. So, like, you... It all starts with just getting people aware of Yeah. Of these birds that

Katie Burke:

are alive. Mhmm. Yeah. So which winning... So on on our second, which one did you decide to do your aviary?

Katie Burke:

What was that?

Madison Grimm:

So it was after the second one. So when I was 13, I did the second entry. 12. I always seemed to, like, overlap during the painting with my birthday. But but it was 2019, I think, is the year I mostly did it, but entered it.

Madison Grimm:

The contest is always in April, like, the following year. So I entered it. The state contest was, like, March, and I won best of show for the state, which I was excited. I was like, ugh. Maybe I can follow my first trend here and go on.

Madison Grimm:

So Two for two. Yeah. So that was pretty cool. So I went on to the national contest, and then that's, like, a month after most of state contest. You gotta wait a little bit.

Madison Grimm:

Kinda like this. It's very stressful.

Adam Grimm:

It's a

Madison Grimm:

long time. Yeah. It doesn't feel that long at the time, but but just waiting, like, it's coming up soon. But, yeah, we... I got the phone call that I had won the national contest for the second time, which is really exciting because there's only one other person to ever win it twice.

Madison Grimm:

And so that was really cool. The problem was it was 2020. And Oh, yeah. Pretty much, like, the day later, it seemed like everything got shut down. So there's no traveling, almost no sales because no one even knew about it.

Adam Grimm:

You didn't have to do

Madison Grimm:

any speeches. Original, but it was like... Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have to do any speeches.

Katie Burke:

Small perks. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So it's like, this is kind of a terrible year to win it. A lot of people still don't even know I won it that that time. So after that, I had met this girl in Wisconsin that we're friends with now, and she... I talked to her all the time, and I just thought it was the coolest thing because she has, like, seven or eight aviaries, and they're just full of, like, wild species of ducks.

Madison Grimm:

Pretty much anything you can have in captivity, she has.

Adam Grimm:

It's pretty great.

Madison Grimm:

It's so cool. And I was... She was sending me pictures, and I was like, I want an aviary. Like, what? That's awesome.

Madison Grimm:

And I decided, I'm like, well, maybe with the prize... Or, well, with the prize money and the sale of the painting, I'm like, maybe I could set aside a little bit and build an aviary. I'm like, that would be that would be really neat, especially because I didn't have anything else going on now. So she's like, yeah. She's like, if you build one, she's like, you could come up here and buy some ducklings and...

Madison Grimm:

Because I really wanna start with, like, ducklings, if they're, like, kinda friendly. And she was like, yeah. I have some green winged teal hatching, whatever. She's like, if if you're able to build one, you can have some of these too. And I was just like, I'm hooked.

Madison Grimm:

I'm I'm building an aviary. Yeah. And so

Katie Burke:

So what did you think about that?

Madison Grimm:

I was like, I need to ask dad.

Katie Burke:

This is the main thing.

Madison Grimm:

Because we do live in town. It's a town. It's, like, 90 people.

Kayci Haider:

Yes. Town. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

And we love I'm from a

Katie Burke:

place like that too. Small

Kayci Haider:

town. Awesome.

Madison Grimm:

But we had, like, two town lots at the time, and they're not huge. I mean, for a town, you know, they're bigger, but it's, like, it's gonna take up a lot of our yard. So I'm like, dad'll either love it for not having to mow, or he'll not be a fan of it. I don't know. Let's see.

Madison Grimm:

So I went to him and asked him, you know, like, if if I buy this stuff, will you help me build this aviary? Would that be okay? And I was pretty nervous because I'm like, he's he's not gonna want that. That sounds like a lot of work. But, apparently, he had always wanted an aviary, which I did not know, but that helped my argument a lot.

Madison Grimm:

And it's always a lot. It would be

Adam Grimm:

expensive and so much work.

Madison Grimm:

He's like, if you do it. You know? Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

I told her... Said I said, well, if you if you wanna buy the supplies to do

Katie Burke:

it Mhmm.

Adam Grimm:

I'll help you build it. Yeah. And so

Madison Grimm:

It was a lot more work than I even thought it was gonna be, I guess.

Adam Grimm:

Work. We had a lot of great bonding time.

Madison Grimm:

It was good for that.

Adam Grimm:

So if anyone out there is looking to spend time with your kids

Madison Grimm:

Building a hearing. Yeah. Those who suffer together, bond together. Yeah. Learned a lot about building pens, which is good now because I build a lot of them.

Madison Grimm:

So But the eight year is

Kayci Haider:

my practice run.

Adam Grimm:

It's pretty great. It is. Thirty six by 48 feet.

Madison Grimm:

We have a big concrete pod in the middle, which has, like, a drain valve all the way out to the ditch that we had dug. So I can drain it, like, once a week or whatever. Keep the water clean. I have a a 10 by 16, I think Yeah. Attached shed to it so that I can have stuff go in there in the winter, brood ducklings in it kind of thing, store feed in there.

Madison Grimm:

It's it's really nice. I love having it. And it's big enough that there's birds in there that can, like, fly around and stuff. And...

Adam Grimm:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. The, yeah, the teal and stuff. I mean Mhmm. They literally do courtship flights in in the aviary.

Adam Grimm:

Like, started with, like crazy.

Madison Grimm:

I was supposed to start with five ducklings. And we went up there, and I brought back, like, 22.

Adam Grimm:

Her friend gave

Madison Grimm:

her a

Katie Burke:

lot. That's the correct way to do it.

Madison Grimm:

Got a little lot. Some might die. You know? None of them did, but it's like... Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Anyway, so I started with those. I also brought back, like, a snow goose, couple a snow geese from someone for some reason. I just was like, oh, I want that too. It was funny. Dad had to up there to sign prints.

Madison Grimm:

It was... Our printer was in Milwaukee at

Adam Grimm:

the time.

Madison Grimm:

For for

Adam Grimm:

Ducks Unlimited.

Madison Grimm:

Oh, yeah. So that's Mike's. He's, like,

Adam Grimm:

close to Milwaukee, and so it was working out. Like Yeah. Madison's like, this is great. We can go, and I can go visit my friend.

Madison Grimm:

And Drop me off there.

Kayci Haider:

Yeah. So he could say no because he wasn't there. I like this.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It was good. It was nice. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

So so we we did that. Now I think I have, I don't know, a 100 to 200 ducks at any given time in there. I mean, I sell stuff to you. 21. 21.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. And it's a lot a lot of stuff native, but I have some of the exotic chores.

Adam Grimm:

Mandarins and bivalves.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. Just

Adam Grimm:

some that she thought,

Madison Grimm:

like, pretty Yeah. Dad's like, let's just stick to, like, mostly native stuff. Because he's like, I don't have any interest in painting, like, you know

Katie Burke:

Well, you can't you can't enter those in the duck stamp.

Madison Grimm:

No. Yeah. I'm like, why

Adam Grimm:

are we feeding

Madison Grimm:

these birds? I'm like, dad, I'm gonna get some of these mandarin ducks. No. I think I have, like, 30 mandarin ducks today.

Adam Grimm:

Seriously, at some point, I think I wanna paint a mandarin because they're

Madison Grimm:

They're so cool.

Adam Grimm:

Awesome looking ducks. I kinda wish we had a bunch of them around.

Madison Grimm:

But... Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. People randomly... They... So people randomly shoot Mandarin ducks, don't they? Yeah.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Sometimes we'll get,

Kayci Haider:

like, submissions for it. Like, I work on our Duck DNA program, but we'll get submissions, and people will be like, I I saw this wild. And I was like,

Madison Grimm:

They're probably related to mine. I had a couple get out one time.

Kayci Haider:

Like, they probably came out of an aviary. Yeah. I don't think it's just hanging out.

Katie Burke:

My dad was showing pictures last night of... Over... During the snowstorm. He had two black swans

Kayci Haider:

laying on his front.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. He showed

Madison Grimm:

me that. Yeah.

Katie Burke:

You have to show everybody. And at at one point, like, he's, like, we could get them... Somebody was, like, making jokes about, like, shooting them and getting them out. Was like, those... That's somebody's pet.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. They probably came from the zoo.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. They are Expensive in captivity. You should catch them and sell them or something.

Katie Burke:

So I was like, they probably escaped

Madison Grimm:

from the zoo. Let them go back. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It's it's so cool, though, to have all those birds just, like, in their backyard. Yeah. Not only for the art, but just, like, just for someone that loves ducks. It's, like,

Adam Grimm:

it's awesome. Well, for reference. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was it was pretty great. And Madison, the the green winged teal she painted for the junior contest, she photographed that bird in her aviary.

Adam Grimm:

Mhmm. The pintail that she did

Madison Grimm:

I for still have that pintail.

Adam Grimm:

Yep. And I thought we should eat that bird because she came in second that year, and I came in second in the feather.

Madison Grimm:

It was the same.

Katie Burke:

I painted the same bird. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Same set of photos. You have their photographing together, and it's like, that was I told her

Katie Burke:

I was

Adam Grimm:

a dud. That was a second place place pintail, not a first place pintail.

Madison Grimm:

So Yeah. Yeah. He was a nice bird, though, so we let it slide. He just... We don't hate him anymore.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So

VO:

Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.

Katie Burke:

So how did that evolve into your thing now? Which, Kayci, can probably

Madison Grimm:

help go

Katie Burke:

with this. And you... And I'd like y'all to talk about too, like, with second chance and then your work with... Because you did some work with the guy who does Duck DNA as well. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

So after the June, I won it three times total. The last time was... Which was just a couple years ago now. The last time I was eligible, I did one more entry. That was the second place pin tail, and I came in second place nationally.

Madison Grimm:

And I had a pretty good track record for only entering four times and winning three out of four. So I was like, it's okay.

Adam Grimm:

And it should have won.

Madison Grimm:

So so that was really cool. And I was excited to try doing a federal entry, you know, the following year. I think I had to wait a year actually because I had my birthday was or something. But

Adam Grimm:

Oh, yeah.

Madison Grimm:

But after starting the aviary, you know, we live in Wallace, South Dakota. So it's in the very northeastern part of the state, right in the heart of the Prairie Powell region. That's why we live there, literally. Mhmm. So it's awesome for people that that love ducks and love hunting and, you know, all the that

Adam Grimm:

we have ducks in the spring Mhmm. And then all summer because that's, like, their home.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

And then even in the fall. It's like, you know, growing up in Ohio, we didn't see most of these species, except for, like, maybe once or twice a year, migrating through.

Madison Grimm:

It's so cool to be where the ducks want to, like, live. Yeah. Not just passing through kind of stuff.

Adam Grimm:

I mean, in the middle of summer, it's like, oh, look, there's baby camisbacks on that slough. Slough. Oh, there's

Madison Grimm:

some baby camisbacks to on go grocery shopping or... It's the

Adam Grimm:

coolest things. For me, like, I... Yeah. I don't

Madison Grimm:

know how many other people are traveling around those. Yeah. Ganwal.

Katie Burke:

Awesome stuff. It's funny that you can tell the difference in the babies. I was like, I cannot do that because I don't ever see baby ducks. We

Madison Grimm:

see them a lot. Yeah. I've gotten pretty

Adam Grimm:

Especially now.

Madison Grimm:

Well versed

Katie Burke:

in that. Now now you're old.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. We see

Adam Grimm:

them a lot now.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, so after after starting the aviary, all the farmers and neighbors and all these people we knew wanted to come see it because it's kinda like having a zoo exhibit in your yard, which is awesome. But people loved coming to see it. You know, lot of them love hunting and never get to see the birds up close like that, you know, if they're, like, alive in person.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, I had a lot of people come visit it. The following spring, a lot of the farmers that had come to visit it, they knew I had that. They knew I had incubators, all this stuff. I started getting phone calls that, you know, hey. We just hit this this duck nest.

Madison Grimm:

We're out hanging our fields, and it's like... He's like, it's a hen pintail. He's like, the hen's laying here dead. You know? There's a whole clutch of eggs.

Madison Grimm:

It's like, would you want want the eggs? I mean, they're obviously not gonna make it. And I was like, oh, like, mean, I can't take wild duck eggs. I'm like, I didn't even I didn't even realize, I guess, that really happened. And I'm like, that's really sad.

Madison Grimm:

And I'm I don't know if there's anywhere that could take them, like, legally. And Yeah. There's not really any sort of, like, rescues or rehabs or anything out by us. And I was like, you know, I I feel terrible, but I'm like, I mean, I can't take them. I'm sorry.

Madison Grimm:

And I know a lot of the local farmers I know will just... We'll hatch them out, put them under a chicken or something. It's like

Adam Grimm:

He's talking

Madison Grimm:

to so many.

Katie Burke:

It's like

Madison Grimm:

not a good method.

Adam Grimm:

Breaking the law.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. We're like, that's not legal.

Adam Grimm:

So We're not responsible.

Madison Grimm:

But, you know, they hit a duck, they feel bad because a lot of them are hunters, and they're like, oh, you know, this is just a whole bunch of future babies dead right here for no reason. So I got... After that one, I was like, oh, wow. Like, that's kinda sad. I didn't know that really happened very much.

Madison Grimm:

I got, after that, probably 20 to 30 phone calls from different farmers, all different people we knew, like, real local close stuff. Like, hey. We just hit a blue ink deal. We hit a mallard. We hit another pin deal, gadwall shovel.

Madison Grimm:

I was like, wow. Like, this is a a big problem. Like, that's... The one guy told me, he's like, we might hit 20 to 30 nests in one field just cutting alfalfa, grass hay type stuff. And I was like, wow.

Madison Grimm:

Like, that's really... That's a lot of eggs. That's average of, like 100. Like, eight to 10 eggs per nest. It's like...

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. And then they're like, yeah. We hit pheasant nests too. And, you know, it's like, yeah. That's really sad.

Madison Grimm:

So it made me kinda think, like, you know, I wonder if there's some way that you could get permitted to, like, take in the eggs and hatch and raise them and release some sort of thing. And I was like, I don't know. It seems like kind of a daunting task. I was trying to look stuff up, and it's like, I realized pretty quick that that's not a thing. No one does that.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I found it's hard

Kayci Haider:

to get collection permits as is for research a lot of times, even harder for specifically, like, migratory birds. Yeah. And Yeah. Course, there's not one layer to it, which I'm sure you know at this point, so you

Madison Grimm:

can And it's even different organizations. It's like, wow. So with the aviary, I had federal permits already. So I had some conversations with our US Fish Wildlife Service regional office and all that, but I found California Waterfowl Association. They have the only other egg salvage program in the country.

Madison Grimm:

So I was like, oh, this is kinda what I wanna do. Like, okay. I found something. I talked to them a whole bunch. Jason is our egg salvage coordinator.

Madison Grimm:

I talked to him a bunch, and they thought it was awesome that I wanted to try and start something here because it's, like, such a different, you know, area than what they're dealing with. And they were super helpful with trying to figure out, you know, what kind of stuff I would need to get. They showed me some of their permits, what they had. And so I contacted our Houston Wildlife Service office and tried to kinda work my way through the chain of people, but it's like, it was so many people, and, like, no one really had any idea what I was supposed to do. They're like, this isn't even a thing, so you're gonna have to talk to this person.

Madison Grimm:

And it was a

Katie Burke:

whole long a long thing.

Madison Grimm:

I think it took probably over six months.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Just solid work on this. I had to do video call meetings. Dad was joining me on some of this stuff because it's like Yeah. I think they thought it was just some random girl just, like, wanting to rescue a few duck nests. And they were like, we're not gonna make a permit because they don't have a permit for it.

Madison Grimm:

Like, they basically had to put several permits together. And they're like, we're not gonna go through all this work just for some idea that's gonna be dismissed in a couple years.

Katie Burke:

She's gonna lose interest.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. I talked to a number of biologists and stuff with them. It was it was a whole thing. And I'm like, you know, I really wanna I wanna do this.

Madison Grimm:

Like, I'm I'm serious about trying to start this.

Adam Grimm:

And I think also too, after their conversations with Madison, they realized this isn't like a little girl in town that found a baby bunny. Right?

Madison Grimm:

Like, this is I'm like, I have a aviary. I've raised these other ducks.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Quite a bit what she's talking about. Even with, like, the incubation stuff. Like, she kinda has... Because of the aviary, she has so much I

Madison Grimm:

told her. I'm like, I'm confident I could do it and do it pretty well, but it's like, you know, I just... The thing's gonna be, you know, trying to just start it. Like, I don't know how to start it, but I'm like, I need to get the permits, or I'm not gonna pursue any of that stuff you know, that... I was foreseeing that as really the big hurdle because it's like, if I can't get that, I'm not gonna go through the work of trying to any this other stuff.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, six solid months of work on it. It was constant, everything. Every every day, I was like, I need to write a new email. Need to fill out a new form. They wanted pictures of stuff.

Madison Grimm:

They wanted to know, like, what they... I had to build a pen ahead of time. And I was I was really concerned about this. Yeah. I'm like Like, we're

Adam Grimm:

gonna build this big pen.

Madison Grimm:

Supposed to build this, like, $800 duck pen to... For something I don't have. Yeah. And it had to be their specifications for, like, rehab stuff. So I had to be, like, crazy tall.

Madison Grimm:

Like, these are ducklings. Like, they're gonna use the bottom one foot of this pen their entire life. Yeah. I have It is

Kayci Haider:

a challenge. Yeah. They have to check to make sure that, you know, you're capable

Madison Grimm:

of

Kayci Haider:

doing

Madison Grimm:

all of that.

Kayci Haider:

They have that responsibility. But... Yeah. Mhmm. The investment that you have to initially put forward.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. And I I mean, I I had I had submitted the permit, told them, like, hey. You know? Just for review. Like, here you go.

Madison Grimm:

Here is all all the information. And a few days later, a week later or something, the guy called me, and he's like, yeah. He's like, well, I didn't think about it before, but he's like, you actually have to have proof of having this pen before we can really, like, consider your permit. And I'm like, why didn't you tell me that Anyway, I told dad, I'm like, well, here's another hurdle. Guess what?

Madison Grimm:

You gotta build a duck pen. And he's like, well, let's just let's just go to town right now. Get stuff for it. And I'm like, oh, okay. So we went.

Madison Grimm:

We got all the stuff, built the whole thing to their specifications the next day, and I sent him a picture the next evening. I'm like, alright. Here's your duck pen. There's efficiency for you. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

He's like he's like, I'm gonna need some more proof pictures. They actually built this. Because he's like, I just told you, like, yesterday. I'm like, yeah. We're serious.

Madison Grimm:

We want this. And so I sent him a bunch of more pictures, and he's like, I just can't believe you guys built that whole thing, like, just yesterday.

Adam Grimm:

It was a pretty impressive pen.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. We did an awesome job on it. We're pretty good at building pens. He's like, oh, alright. And then, like, two days later, I got the the approved sign permits in my email, and he gave me a call.

Madison Grimm:

He's like, yeah. I just sent those over. And I was like, wow. Alright. But it was April.

Madison Grimm:

So I was like, oh, guess what? Next month, you're gonna start getting phone calls for Ducks. Ready? How do I get this out there? Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

So it was a whole whirlwind of stuff. I had to file for nonprofit status in the state, which I had no idea of any of this stuff. School did not teach me how to start a nonprofit.

Katie Burke:

School doesn't teach you about life.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I'm like, this is not... I had to... I got that. I filed for five zero one c three nonprofit status.

Madison Grimm:

The whole time, I was like, I'm gonna get arrested somehow. I'm gonna screw this up. Anyway, yeah, I did all of that. Started trying to to get the word out to farmers. We just, like...

Madison Grimm:

We're like, I don't even know how to get ahold of farmers. Like, they're not on social media. It's like, what... How do you reach them and tell them, like, hey. If you hit a duck nest, you know, there's this now licensed nonprofit.

Madison Grimm:

So we did... I did radio ads. I did local newspaper interviews with pretty much anyone I could find, and they all loved Ducks. It's like this brand new thing. So I had no problem getting it.

Madison Grimm:

Kid. Yeah. No problem getting it out there. Yeah. Sweet

Katie Burke:

girl. Try skewing ducks.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. Yep. And then we just drove around and went and talked to a ton of farmers. We're like, oh, those people look like they do haying. We'll go we'll go talk to them.

Madison Grimm:

And I had flyers I handed out. I made little magnets so people could stick right on their cab with, like, my phone number on it. Yeah. And handed out egg cartons to people like, hey. Keep these in the cab.

Madison Grimm:

If had a duck nest, know, stick them in there and give me a call. So it was cool. And a lot of farmers were like, wow. We've been doing this for a long time. And they're like, you know, we didn't even know it was illegal.

Madison Grimm:

And they're like, yeah. It's always kinda hard to raise the ducklings. They're like, yeah. We'll, like, stick them in the bathtub and, you know, sometimes they drown. It's like Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It's like, that's why that's why there's a permit. That's what's illegal.

Kayci Haider:

And that's why they were checking that you had a pin.

Madison Grimm:

You know? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yeah. I mean, it's it's definitely better for just average random people not to try and restart

Adam Grimm:

I just think it's exciting that there's actually something that can be done. Right? I mean, it's

Madison Grimm:

A way to

Adam Grimm:

to track. The people that care and actually want to try to do something. I mean, and even just this year, she's had Yeah. She had law officers going down in storm

Madison Grimm:

drains so excited about

Adam Grimm:

it. Ducklings.

Madison Grimm:

Drains that

Adam Grimm:

were gonna die down there. She had, where the hen got hit on the road crossing with the clutch or a brood of of ducklings, and, they gathered up all the babies that were still alive and brought them to her.

Madison Grimm:

We used to have so many ducks there. It's like everyone runs into to ducklings or duck nests or ducks in some way because they're, like, in everyone's... You know, the the areas overlap, even in towns and stuff. Like, they're hatching eggs in towns. And

Adam Grimm:

Wood ducks get separated

Madison Grimm:

from the hensers. Ducklings. Blooming teal nesting right in our town. A guy accidentally mowed over it mowing his yard, and it's like, whoops. Like, it was just in someone's yard.

Madison Grimm:

It sounds like

Kayci Haider:

you guys have just a wonderful community up there. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

And I

Kayci Haider:

think it's We

Katie Burke:

do. I mean,

Kayci Haider:

the nice part is it's a reflection of the waterfowl community as a whole. Right? Like, everybody wants to do something, and Mhmm. It's kind of a rare opportunity where you get to physically go do something. I think a lot of times the ask is, you know, financial, but it's nice that there's something that people can physically do now and that you guys are kind of the hub for that in your community.

Adam Grimm:

And there's nothing better than seeing birds being released that you know would have been dead Yeah. Yeah. That would have been dead in the field or, you know, whatever.

Madison Grimm:

So careful to to always leave, you know, the ducklings with the hen if there's any way they think they can make it, the ducklings, the egg, the nest, anything. Yeah. But, yeah, there's just sometimes where it's just... It's way too much disturbance or interference. And...

Kayci Haider:

Yeah. So And so you guys have gotten permits now to collect, and then, also, you... I think I saw on social media you might have gotten another permit that's really exciting.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So last year's the first year, and I took in just about 200 ducklings and duck eggs. And it was like all this, like I said, the rush of trying to get stuff in place. So for that, I was pretty excited I even got that many because it was like... I just had a hard time getting ahold of people and and telling them about it.

Madison Grimm:

And everyone was supportive. Everyone's like, oh, absolutely. We'll give you a call. Like, yeah, this is a problem we've seen for years, and it's like... So that was neat.

Madison Grimm:

Everyone's been super supportive and and willing to to stop and pick up the eggs and make the phone call. So that's really cool to see. I also... Yeah. Last year, also rescued a couple geese and a trumpeter swan.

Madison Grimm:

Its parents got hit on some railroad tracks, so not ag related, but it was it was still pretty cool to raise that bird. I also got last year a number of phone calls for pheasant nests and even a call for a turkey nest that all got hit in hayfields. And I was kind of anticipating that might happen because we have a lot of pheasants out there. I had gone to... Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Our state bird. So I had gone to game fish and parks. I told him, I'm like, you know, I just started this. I had already asked them ahead of time before I applied for the federal permit. Is there anything I need on state level?

Madison Grimm:

Because you always have to do that first. And they're like, no. You know, we have no idea. I mean, I don't think you would need anything at all. So I talked to a lot of people about it.

Madison Grimm:

Everyone said, you don't need anything. So I went ahead of the federal permit. And, apparently, there's this state law that no one knew about. It was written back in, like, the sixties or something, and it... It's about, like, wild bird eggs.

Madison Grimm:

So the way they had it written was really vague, and it was... It ended up being a problem because it blocked not only, you know, the destroying or moving or taking of nests and eggs, but also pretty much any sort of rescue or salvage efforts. Basically, no one can touch an egg in South Dakota for any reason. So it was... They told us...

Madison Grimm:

They're like, you know, there's no way to to give a permit for, like, doing game birds because of this law. And he's like, your duck one would actually technically be in conflict with it. But he's like, because no one knew about it, you know, it's... We're just gonna defer to the federal permit. Like, it...

Madison Grimm:

It's fine. But, yeah, it was it was a big problem for trying to do game birds. So decided this year to go through the work of trying to get it changed, which was not something I ever foresaw coming either or had any idea how to do. But went to a state... Our local legislator and told them kind of about the problem and that we needed to really try and and get it amended to, you know, allow at least a small loophole for what I'm doing while obviously keeping the other stuff intact.

Madison Grimm:

But... Yeah. So so that was a really interesting journey, even just, like, helping draft the bill and trying to make sure the wording was correct for what I wanted to do. Dad and I both went to peer and testified a number of times.

Adam Grimm:

It was funny because they kept coming back with, like... He had, like, his people working on the legislation

Madison Grimm:

drafts. Or 13 drafts at one point. It was so funny.

Adam Grimm:

This isn't right. Like... So we finally ended up just kind of mostly drafting the wording.

Madison Grimm:

I told him, I'm like, I'm just gonna write what it should say, and you guys can go through it and change whatever you want. But I'm like, keep the terms intact.

Adam Grimm:

So we got it. I mean, it got passed in the house, and then it was going to the senate. Well, actually, Game, Fish, and Parks came and testified in opposition, which I was like, you're the ones that told us we should go through the state legislature to get it resolved. Right? Mhmm.

Madison Grimm:

That was kinda funny.

Adam Grimm:

But I think they saw that it wasn't... Like, it was gonna pass. And so then

Madison Grimm:

And the fact that I was already doing it with the Ducks. I'd already done it for a whole year

Adam Grimm:

with the Ducks. Then then they they actually helped write, like, a new version, like an amendment, like, amended version, and it was even... This actually was even better. They basically just said if you have this federal permit, you can do it with the state game birds and stuff too. So they didn't wanna have to create a permit and everything.

Madison Grimm:

I kinda wanted there to be a permit because that way if I decided to, like, expand it in the future, like, other people could have the permit, but it's it's fine.

Adam Grimm:

Now they're gonna have to

Madison Grimm:

get a federal permit if they wanted to help with that. You're gonna get this permit no one else has.

Adam Grimm:

Good luck. Yeah. But it was it was fun. I mean, just going through that process. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Then the one thing

Madison Grimm:

I to watching the bill try and, like, pass. You're watching that at home, and it's like, this is not like the Ducks stamp

Adam Grimm:

contest. Well, they had

Madison Grimm:

a whole... They had

Adam Grimm:

a whole signing ceremony with the governor,

Madison Grimm:

and it It's

Katie Burke:

she

Adam Grimm:

was my bill. Really neat. Yeah. There's pictures on her website.

Madison Grimm:

The governor even was telling me. I was talking to him about it, and he's like, we've hit, you know, a number of nests when we're farming because they're farmers. And he's like, you know, we never knew about it. And he's like, we felt bad. So that was cool to hear the problem, I guess, even from him.

Madison Grimm:

You know? So

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. But but the one thing I told Madison, I said it'd be great if you could ban the birds because it would be really awesome if you knew if, like, someone shot a bird that you actually raised. So

Katie Burke:

And where it went.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't an issue for the pheasants or the turkeys or any of the... So not. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Fine. But the waterfowl, there's federal laws about what kind of

Madison Grimm:

band And I've been working on that also since last year, because I wanna do it last year, and it was just the longest, just most stuff. I'm like, how is this harder than getting the salvage permit?

Adam Grimm:

Just so people know, government tends to be a lot of red

Madison Grimm:

tape. And it was also a different government organization since the USGS. So I was like, oh, boy. Now I gotta start all over working my way through this. So So...

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So this year is my second year. I took in just under 800 birds, ducks, pheasants, and turkeys. It was kinda like a half and half between the ducks and pheasants, it seemed like, and I took in about 30 turkey eggs from all hit nests. So it was it was pretty cool compared to, like, last year to see that, like, that big of an increase already, and I had so many people calling.

Madison Grimm:

I had people from North Dakota calling. They had hit nests, they're like, I'll just drive the eggs down to you. I'm like, yeah. There's no way I could come get them. That's way too far.

Madison Grimm:

And so I had people coming from, like, Fargo bringing eggs. I had people from Minnesota, up in Minnesota bringing eggs and stuff to me. Was so cool. And all over around us, tons of nests. So It

Adam Grimm:

shows you just how much people really do care. Yeah. You know, wanna try to do the right thing.

Kayci Haider:

There's a need and a desire for this to be built, and it's

Madison Grimm:

Everyone feels bad, you know, if... I mean, they're just trying to cut hay for their cattle. It's not like they're doing unnecessary work, but it's, like, you know, to see them be an unfortunate consequence of that. So so, yeah, it was really cool to see to see just how supportive people have been. But...

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So for this year, I was like, I really have to get this banding permit. Like, what do I need to do here? I found out that it's gotta be, like, rehabbed bands. Like, you have to have a rehab, you know, qualification or something on the permit.

Madison Grimm:

And so it's not even just a regular sub permit. So there was that. And then I thought, well, maybe I should just try and get, like, a master banding permit, but just have it be mainly for the the nonprofit stuff. But you have to be 21 to do that, which I thought was funny because I could get the other permit at 18. So it's like, well, I'd have to wait, like, three years.

Madison Grimm:

That's, yeah, that's not good.

Adam Grimm:

So She wanted me to get it.

Madison Grimm:

She's like, maybe I was like, maybe you could do it. I'm like,

Adam Grimm:

I don't I

Katie Burke:

don't wanna

Madison Grimm:

do it. Yeah. So, yeah, I had so many conversations with so many people. I'm like, what do I need to do here? Like, how do I get around this?

Madison Grimm:

And ended up finally going through the California Waterfowl Association, actually. And shout out to Corey Overgen for all of the work he did for helping me get that permit because that was so much work. Constant emails just like the the other permit. But, yeah, finally got approved just back in, yeah, early... Earlier this this past month, actually.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. September 2 or something. Yeah. For for the federal banning sub permit under them. And because they have the egg salvage program, they're authorized to ban rehabbed birds.

Madison Grimm:

So it did everything I needed it to do, which was was really helpful. Yeah. Took quite a while. I was able to band, I think, about a 100 ducks this year. So not all of them, but at least a handful were able to get banded.

Madison Grimm:

So it'll be pretty cool to see if if any are encountered later this year and where they end up. It'll be cool to see, you know, how far they migrate and and how that ends up working because there's not really any study stuff on, you know, will the birds actually successfully migrate? I mean, they will, I think. But, I mean, I I did stuff last year, and I didn't ban them. But it's like, you know, you see birds around.

Madison Grimm:

It's like, that's probably some of the ones we raise, like, coming back. We had one come and land right in town. Was really funny. And it was a hen mallard. And she wasn't super afraid of people, but the drakes she was with was freaking out.

Madison Grimm:

He's like, this is not where you were born. What are doing? And she just kinda walked around like, I swear this is where I came from. It was the funniest thing. And, eventually, she ended up flying off, and it was like, yeah.

Madison Grimm:

That was that probably almost definitely one of the ones I had raised.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. But she also had... She had a a bird got out of one of her aviary.

Madison Grimm:

Mhmm.

Adam Grimm:

And it was a it was a... So when you have birds in captivity, you get hybridization that happens.

Madison Grimm:

I haven't even gotten that many. I've gotten maybe, like, four or five over the years.

Adam Grimm:

And cinnamon are pretty bad.

Madison Grimm:

Some ducks get a little overzealous. But she had a

Adam Grimm:

Gadwal Widgen combo, and it was a hen. Not a real attractive bird.

Madison Grimm:

I was really sad it wasn't a though.

Adam Grimm:

I know. But it had it had one of her bands on it that's, like, for her aviary.

Madison Grimm:

It's Seamless metal bands.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Seamless band. Right? And it just said Grimm and, like, a number on it. Well, the bird...

Adam Grimm:

You know, we get wind in South Dakota, and we have stuff to clean the door shut.

Madison Grimm:

Latched, and it it just, like, works it open So, if I'm

Adam Grimm:

anyway, this bird

Madison Grimm:

flew out. Stuff get out before.

Adam Grimm:

It's like, oh, it's gone. And that was, like, in the summer. And then, like, at the end of December, she got this call from someone in Southern Arkansas, and he's like, we shot this bird, and it has this band that says Grimm.

Madison Grimm:

I think it's a gadwall. He's like, it came with other gadwall, but he's like, we were kinda arguing over it. We're, like, not sure what it is. And And he's like, is there any chance this might be one of your birds?

Adam Grimm:

He just found her

Madison Grimm:

because he knew... He saw I had the aviary. On my Facebook page, whatever. Yeah. It was the funniest thing.

Madison Grimm:

And I'm like, do you have pictures of it? I'm like, I would love to see it. I'm like, actually had a bird get out, but I feel like it might be. And he sent me pictures, and soon enough, it was the same bird. It was Grimm number seven.

Madison Grimm:

And I sent him pictures. I'm like, that's a gattel wigeon hybrid. I'm like, here it is in my aviary earlier this year. I'm like

Adam Grimm:

But it's crazy because that bird

Madison Grimm:

was cool.

Adam Grimm:

Born and raised in captivity.

Madison Grimm:

Right? Two or three years or something.

Adam Grimm:

That bird still migrated down that far.

Madison Grimm:

Like Worked into some decoys and

Adam Grimm:

Yeah.

Kayci Haider:

Found itself a good group that it could go on. I just thought

Madison Grimm:

it was gone forever. I'm like, I

Adam Grimm:

don't know. It's So we're hoping

Madison Grimm:

that that's what we

Adam Grimm:

see with with these birds with the bands.

Madison Grimm:

And we have just so many ducks around us. It's like it's impossible for them to not get in with other wild and and kinda acclimate, become wild. So... Yeah. So that'll be that'll be interesting.

Madison Grimm:

And then, yeah, and then just not that long ago also, I was reached out to you by a guy from South Carolina and ended up talking with a number of people up there, like the Clemson University and, like, all that stuff. And they've been doing a lot of work on, like, the Dean Farm Mallard type stuff. Which is an issue. Yeah. I didn't...

Madison Grimm:

I I just haven't even really thought about it that much because, you know, being where we're at, we don't really get it that much. Doesn't affect us

Kayci Haider:

as much.

Madison Grimm:

But over there, yeah, it's it's crazy. So so he talked to me quite a bit, and he's like, well, he's like, you really need to talk to Philip Rescuer. And I was like, oh, I'm like, I've heard all about that stuff. That would be awesome. And so he called me, and he's like, you know, we'd love to do, you know, some research type stuff on on your birds to see if they'll...

Madison Grimm:

Like like, the wild mallards, you know, do genetic testing, prove that they're wild, and, you know, prove if they will migrate or not being raised in captivity. So I was like, wow. I'm like, yeah, that would be that would be super cool. So not only, like, from that standpoint, but just for, like, me because, like, I'm not gonna go buy a bunch of GPS transmitters and do blood testing on on my own stuff. Expensive.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It's not it's not necessary for what I'm doing, although it would be awesome. So so I'm really excited about that. Sounds like next year, I'll get to work with him and stuff some. And then I actually had a guy from up there.

Madison Grimm:

He just loves what I'm doing and thinks it's super cool and decided to donate some of... Clemson University had, like, 50 transmitters on hand or something, and he decided to buy, like, 10 of them and donate them to me to put on some of my birds just for this year just to see, you know, like, little preliminary test type study thing. And so I was really excited about that. I'm like, wow. That would be so cool to get some on some of these birds this year yet.

Madison Grimm:

And... But then I found out all the stuff about you have to have different banding authorizations, your transmitters. And I'm like, I just got the banding permit. I'm like, I'm not pushing it. I I cannot do that.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, I I talked to Corey at CWA, and I'm like, now what? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I'd love to do this, but I'm like, I don't know. I don't know that I can... And push this much further.

Madison Grimm:

So I ended up talking to Chris Nikolai, who's also helped me a ton with the banding stuff. And it's been really cool getting to work with him because he's just so knowledgeable and been such a huge help for navigating energy, for sure. Yeah. For just navigating all this stuff because he's done so much of it, and he's close. So he's dealing with a lot of the same people.

Madison Grimm:

And, yeah, he told me... You know, he's like, I I have authorization to do radio transmitters in South Dakota and to do the blood draw type stuff. And I was like, well, if you could come down and do it, that would solve my

Katie Burke:

issue. There we go.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, so he talked to Corey, and they all worked it out kind of. They sent the transmitters down, and I tested them. Was cool to just even hold one because I'm like, I've never even seen these before. This is awesome. And charged them outside and did some testing stuff with them, make sure they all work.

Madison Grimm:

So that was super cool. And, yeah, raised up some birds fifteen weeks or so. I... That's longer than I usually keep them, but, know, so that they're bigger and able to put the transmitters on. So cut back some mallards and just not that long ago, just three weeks ago Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Maybe, he came down and did all the transmitters, did the blood draw, helped... Showed me stuff with banding more. And so that was just super cool. It was awesome to get to visit with him and learn from him and and also get the transmitters put on because that was something I had no idea how to do. So even doing, like, the blood drawing, like...

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I don't know that I would have wanted to try it. I mean, I feel like I maybe could have, but it's like just learning

Adam Grimm:

a lot.

Madison Grimm:

You've you've learning the right ways to do everything. And It's great to

Adam Grimm:

learn from firsthand from the experts that are

Madison Grimm:

out there. So And I gotta send those out still. I've got little vials in the freezer still.

Kayci Haider:

When you started this nonprofit, did you know that you were gonna become a hub for scientific research?

Madison Grimm:

I know. I'm like, wow. I'm like, I'm doing all the work without a degree here. This is...

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. You don't need a degree.

Madison Grimm:

So I'm like, I'll I'll just jump right in. Yeah. Next thing

Kayci Haider:

you know, you'll have a peer reviewed publication. It's...

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I think so. It's from art college.

Adam Grimm:

This is fine.

Kayci Haider:

You'll create your own, you know, curriculum. People can come get their education at your aviary.

Madison Grimm:

It's cool because it's like, you know, birds that have been raised in captivity. So it's not like doing the netting, dealing with crazy stressed out birds kind of thing. Like, they're not imprinted, but they're not, like, terrified of

Adam Grimm:

people. Also done. That's actually pretty interesting.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I never... We did that, like, three days ago right before it came. It was, like, their last their last shooting season.

Adam Grimm:

Netting birds on the Sand Lake Refuge in South Dakota, which was,

Madison Grimm:

yeah Yeah. Pretty neat. Super cool.

Kayci Haider:

That's a fun experience.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I had no idea any of that worked either. Like, I don't know.

Madison Grimm:

I guess I was more familiar with, like, the swimming trap type idea. Like, I didn't know. They caught, like, 320 birds in the net, and that was their biggest shoot of the season supposedly, but it was like, Madison. Catch that, but that's insane.

Adam Grimm:

So it just... She just brings luck with her

Kayci Haider:

where we lover.

Madison Grimm:

I hope I bring some today. Yeah. Something something about it. So that was cool, and it was great for for getting some more banning experience because, I mean, I know how to do it, but it's like doing wild birds and getting the experience with, like, the aging type stuff. I mean, mine are all hatchier young birds.

Madison Grimm:

Like, I know exactly how old they are because I hatched them. So... And I know, you know, it's pretty easy to sex them and all that. I mean, I've just done all that for so long. But, yeah, getting the experience and getting to be around people that are are doing the wild birds, and that was super neat to do.

Madison Grimm:

So, yeah, so that's kind of a new new interesting one. And, yeah, the transmitter birds are out, released them about just over two weeks ago, and it's been... I live from, like, 3AM to 11AM to 7PM.

Kayci Haider:

That's when

Madison Grimm:

they update, and it's very specific times.

Katie Burke:

That's what I was wondering. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I'm checking it every time. I'm like, where are the birds at? And I've never coincidentally woken up at 3AM so much in my life. I...

Madison Grimm:

I'm like, why am I up? And I'm like, oh, the transmitter.

Adam Grimm:

So I said it's like having money in the stock market.

Madison Grimm:

Exactly. Check that stock. Is it up?

Adam Grimm:

Is it down? And it's funny because I woke up the other... Just last night. Not last night. The night before.

Adam Grimm:

And I... It was, 03:30AM, and I'm like, oh, it should have updated. Do I ask Madison? Like, no.

Madison Grimm:

No. I just have wait. I just have to wait. Yeah. Because it's it's always a little bit scary.

Madison Grimm:

Like, separate's still alive. Like, hope none of them got eaten or shot or whatever. Like, I had fruit... So youth season was like, two weekends ago, right, three days after I let the birds go. And I'm like, the odds of any of these getting shot on youth weekend are probably zero.

Adam Grimm:

We've spent a lot of time carefully picking out

Madison Grimm:

where we were least several days picking

Adam Grimm:

out He's really good like, oh, yeah. This looks great.

Madison Grimm:

Yep. Yep. So we were really careful. We did little groups. We...

Madison Grimm:

So it was 10 birds, and we released four on the one spot because it's totally private. She's not any hunting, and it's way back in, and it was loaded with ducks. We're like, this is a really good spot. So I let four go and then also a number of other ducks that I had banded, ones that I'd also rescued, ready to release. So just saved some of those back to kinda have a little bit of a insurance, I guess, on those.

Madison Grimm:

You know, release a little group together. And then the other two spots, we released three each on. So, yeah, so I was like, wow. This is probably the best. You know?

Madison Grimm:

And they were not real close together. Like, some were up North of LA.

Adam Grimm:

Banded birds too.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. We did probably, like, 10 banded birds at least on each one with them. So so, yeah, tried to do, you know, the best we could do with it. But on youth weekend, I got a text message. We were actually out with my siblings for for duck season, and that...

Madison Grimm:

It's always pretty cool to see, you know, young kids get to go out and do that. And we were having a good time. We had been there. I think several of my siblings had their limits already, and we just shot some geese. That was pretty cool.

Madison Grimm:

And I get a text message from my mom who stayed home, and she... It was just a picture of two transmitters, two of the transmitters I just put out with some feathers on them. And she's like, these just arrived is what she said. And I'm like, what? I'm like, how?

Madison Grimm:

And I'm like, I called her right away. I'm like, what happened? And she's... The one neighbor kid dropped him off. He he didn't know.

Madison Grimm:

They just went hunting on this one spot. And the one spot, it's private property, but it... On each side, there's a a dead end road kinda that goes through. It's totally underwater. Like, it's not a usable road.

Madison Grimm:

It's actually kinda goes through what's now, like, almost like a pasture type field, so it's way back in. I didn't think anyone knew about this spot at all. Apparently, they decided to throw some decoys out at the end of that road in the ditch and just hunt out there. I'm like... Which is totally legal.

Madison Grimm:

But, yeah, it's it's the exact spot we let those ducks go. We literally have pictures of letting them go standing on that road under the water, letting them out. So the two of them got shot, and they also shot several other banded birds out there. And it was like

Adam Grimm:

They had a great morning.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I was

Katie Burke:

like, it was great because

Madison Grimm:

of hands.

Katie Burke:

Wow. All seasons,

Kayci Haider:

it was the hardest. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So that was really unfortunate. I was like, ugh. Madison's pretty

Adam Grimm:

mad. She's like, hate them.

Katie Burke:

Hate them so

Madison Grimm:

much. Not really, but, like, I just hate that it happened. Yeah. So so that was too bad. The transmitters actually still work, so it's like...

Madison Grimm:

But but now I've got two less out there. So,

Kayci Haider:

yeah, that first season for the birds will probably be the the hardest one.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. And, like, I don't really mind if they get shot, but, like, down south somewhere. Like, not here. That's why I'm giving you anything. Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

He does. He's like he's like, you know, they

Adam Grimm:

keep flying right in.

Madison Grimm:

He's like, we didn't think anything up. They didn't see the transit. Yeah. Yeah. He felt bad.

Adam Grimm:

At least it wasn't like they just came walking up to him

Madison Grimm:

or Yeah. Along the road.

Adam Grimm:

You know, something like that. So Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

But but the other ones all seemed be

Adam Grimm:

very well. Ducks.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. I did have two other ones get eaten by a raccoon, which I don't think was their fault. That place is apparently loaded with raccoons, which we did not know at the time.

Adam Grimm:

Working on it.

Madison Grimm:

We're fixing it. It's it's it's ticking down. Yeah. So, yeah, that really stuck. The one morning I checked the transmitters, I'm like, this bird didn't move since yesterday.

Madison Grimm:

Like, it had updated, but it was, like, little pings right around that same spot. I'm like, like, we better go out there. And we found we found the transmitter, which was actually pretty neat because it was just dense cattails. And these

Adam Grimm:

Like, are super dense, like, taller than our head cattails.

Madison Grimm:

It was... I'm like, this is... No.

Adam Grimm:

But it connects with Bluetooth.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. So it's... They're low tech transmitters, which apparently no one knows anything about. They're some weird brand. I don't know.

Madison Grimm:

I'm like, why are these the ones that were given to me for testing? Anyway... But they've actually... I mean, I think the big problem is just our cell service. I don't think there's anything wrong with the transmitters, but it's cool that they actually will connect to Bluetooth, and you...

Madison Grimm:

They do, like, this dinging things. It's like the most annoying hot and cold game because you're just walking aimlessly through cat jails just listening to this dinging and this graph. And it's like, can't you give me, like, 50 yards? Like, some sort of movement. But, yeah, it eventually started dinging really fast.

Madison Grimm:

I'm like, it's gotta be, like, right here somewhere, and we found it. So so that was neat, but the bird was gone. No bird. It was just a transmitter laying there with some teeth marks

Katie Burke:

in it.

Adam Grimm:

Found feathers.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It was like, wow. So

Adam Grimm:

poor thing.

Madison Grimm:

Lots of coontracts. It probably just got out to preen or something, yeah. Which That happens.

Kayci Haider:

Is the goal to put the transmitters back out?

Madison Grimm:

I don't know. I don't want a rough of wooden roof

Adam Grimm:

this year.

Madison Grimm:

Back down and do it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't... I I do have a handful of ducks left, but it's like, I don't know if it's worth it to do the thing we have.

Madison Grimm:

I don't know. So... Yeah. But the rest of us seem be doing well. I've actually just got some some, like, preliminary early maps the other day from the the lady up at Clemson that's helping me kinda manage the transmitter.

Madison Grimm:

She knows way about... More about them than I do. I'm... I just check where they're at at the time and do the little track thing on the app. But, yeah, she made some maps, and it's really cool because they've been moving around, like, a lot, like, different water areas in the area.

Madison Grimm:

The one flew, like, up to... Over five miles to this different slough and was sitting out there for a few days and then flew back to when he let it go on and then flew over to the west

Adam Grimm:

They really liked the ones we let them go on. Yeah. They definitely spots. So I mean, that's why we picked them.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Load... All of them are loaded with ducks.

Adam Grimm:

Yeah. Ducks and coots and

Madison Grimm:

all sorts of other birds.

Adam Grimm:

It's it's amazing how many birds are out

Madison Grimm:

of it. And they're pretty small too. So they've got a lot of duckweed, a lot of invertebrates and stuff still.

Adam Grimm:

So the goal is that, you know, these are areas where they're gonna be able to get in with these other ducks. The problem is is if there's any access apparently, like from a road Yeah. People are like, oh, this looks like a great spot to duck hunt. So

Katie Burke:

Yeah. So

Adam Grimm:

that Yeah. Know? But once

Madison Grimm:

I'm hoping they... Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Once they move on, which, I mean, will be, like, in a month because otherwise they'll freeze to death. So

Madison Grimm:

Literally.

Adam Grimm:

In South Dakota. So, yeah, you know, hopefully hopefully, they get going. And

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. It'll be cool to see where they end up. I hope at least some of them migrate and maybe even come back and nest somewhere around us, and maybe we can even go out and find... Like, that would just be so cool. So that's my ultimate goal.

Madison Grimm:

I don't know if it'll happen this year or

Adam Grimm:

not, but putting more transmitters on hens than drakes just because We

Madison Grimm:

did, like, a six four.

Adam Grimm:

We thought that the information could be more interesting, especially if we're

Madison Grimm:

like Because they'll probably wanna come back to our

Adam Grimm:

bird out in this field a lot. Like, what... Maybe she's got a nest, and

Madison Grimm:

week and a half or more.

Adam Grimm:

Out there, and she did the Bluetooth thing, and she's like, well, they're showing up. Like, they must be somewhere nearby. And we we walked around the backside, and there's all these tall cattails and everything, and there's, like, these little areas going through there with duckweed.

Madison Grimm:

It's got, like, inlet things. It's through, like, a cow pasture.

Adam Grimm:

We ended up finding all three ducks. So they're still out there

Madison Grimm:

Alive. Yes. Yeah. Kind of alive.

Adam Grimm:

And and they do move around and stuff. Like, they'll show up if they leave that spot, but they like the spot so much. And I don't even know why this

Madison Grimm:

ducks bird was showing up on Bluetooth, and I was like, it's here somewhere. And we found this little group of Mallards back there, and some of them I could see leg bands on them. Yeah. And the one, I swear I saw the transmitter. I'm not positive,

Adam Grimm:

but Oh, yeah. I definitely saw it on the one.

Madison Grimm:

And I'm like, oh, there it is. And so I pull it up, and it it showed it. And then she got up and flew with all the other ducks. It's... It didn't show up anymore.

Madison Grimm:

So it was definitely one of those birds.

Adam Grimm:

It was that hen.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. So they're all still alive. I just... I need them to move.

Adam Grimm:

But it was cool. We had the landowner came out, and he, like... We let him let some go, and he

Madison Grimm:

just He was so excited by it. They didn't know transmitters were a thing. They're like, you could track where the duck

Katie Burke:

Yeah.

Madison Grimm:

They were so excited about it. So

Adam Grimm:

So it's it's good to see that. And, again, like, that connection with the farmers

Madison Grimm:

Make him care more about Yeah. Yeah. About wildlife.

Kayci Haider:

Well, getting to be part of that is just something special, and it's not something that everybody gets the opportunity to do.

Madison Grimm:

And so the

Kayci Haider:

fact that you're bringing to your community as well, especially a community that already is so passionate about it, it's just really such a

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Important area for our ducks. Yes. So it's very important to, like

Madison Grimm:

And it opens the door to other conversations too. Like, a lot of them are doing the tiling type stuff, and it's a horrible problem out where we're at. So, you know, seeing... You know, telling people like, hey. You know, the ducks that that are nesting in these fields, this is what...

Madison Grimm:

Why they're here. Like, if you drain that, the ducks aren't gonna be

Adam Grimm:

here anymore. And... Yeah. They they view those little areas as like, oh, this just like a temporary puddle. Right?

Adam Grimm:

And it's like, no. That's actually

Madison Grimm:

a really

Katie Burke:

important Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Those temporary wetlands are super important for nesting waterfowl. And most people don't maybe know this. I mean, maybe a lot of your listeners would, but the Prairie Pothole region, they estimate, and maybe you could clarify, is, like, responsible for, like, 50 to 80% of the nation's waterfowl. So it's a significant area. It's, like, vital for the waterfowl in our country.

Madison Grimm:

So People there just think it's like that everywhere, I think. They don't realize that it's

Adam Grimm:

just worse. Everywhere. Right?

Madison Grimm:

I mean,

Adam Grimm:

I I think they think farmers in Ohio are hitting just as many nests in their fields, and it's like, no. No. No one's

Katie Burke:

doing that.

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. This is a rare problem. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

Very specific area that's super critical, and what happens here affects, you know, the fall the fall flight for everybody. So, yeah, if you like seeing ducks in your area, it's probably because of the ducks in our area is what's what's happening. So Right.

Katie Burke:

Alright. Well, is there anything... Because we gotta go see what happens today. Is there anything that we didn't talk about you wanna talk about? Anything?

Katie Burke:

Do you have any questions, Kayci, before we go?

Kayci Haider:

I don't have any additional questions, but I do expect updates. So I'll

Katie Burke:

be I'll

Kayci Haider:

be stopping your social media

Madison Grimm:

at least. To work on that stuff in the future. That'll be really

Katie Burke:

So Have you guys

Adam Grimm:

post about the transmitters yet even?

Madison Grimm:

I haven't yet. I want to kinda wait a couple of weeks

Katie Burke:

to, like, see how they

Madison Grimm:

did and have some maps ahead of time. Yeah. So because, like Very soon.

Katie Burke:

I'll Hearing this story, it feels, like, very, like, just happen since, like, this one thing led to another thing. This led to another thing. Just snowballing. Do you have plans for, like, a goal that you're searching for in the future? Like, what...

Katie Burke:

A goalpost are you going towards?

Madison Grimm:

The first big one is a new property because our yard is really not big enough for second chance slate anymore. It was a very nice, like, staging ground kind of thing because I didn't... I just didn't wanna jump in too much and have it, like, totally flop or something. My wife think was gonna happen.

Adam Grimm:

We're being taken over

Madison Grimm:

by it. So I told her, I was like, you should be honored that second chance flight operates out of

Katie Burke:

your home.

Madison Grimm:

She Yeah.

Katie Burke:

She says I am now.

Kayci Haider:

But, also, let's grow it to a different

Madison Grimm:

space. I'm

Katie Burke:

so proud

Madison Grimm:

of you. I bigger pens. I need more pens.

Adam Grimm:

If there's any Ducks Unlimited members out there that would be interested in donating some property to Second Chance Flight

Madison Grimm:

in the

Adam Grimm:

in the Wallace, South Dakota vicinity would be nice. But

Madison Grimm:

Yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to grow it ultimately to to other states, other places where it's... Like, up in North Dakota, they don't have anything up there. No duck rest.

Madison Grimm:

Anyone that can take in wild ducks, obviously, no one that can take in eggs. So it's like... Yeah. People find orphan ducklings, and it's like, there's nothing except for me. So that's why I've had so many people bring stuff down, but it's like, to start something up there would be really cool.

Madison Grimm:

And even parts of Minnesota, I mean, are really good for nesting waterfowl and kinda see where it leads

Adam Grimm:

to.

Madison Grimm:

It's not really a one person job. Really need

Katie Burke:

to see more. Need more people.

Adam Grimm:

If she could prove

Madison Grimm:

It's like a

Adam Grimm:

full time unpaid job. Concept is working. Like, I mean, if... And these transmitters could help. You know, the banded birds could help.

Adam Grimm:

The pheasants, obviously... I mean, if someone shot a banded pheasant in our area, they would know.

Madison Grimm:

It's nice for spreading the word a little

Adam Grimm:

But to be able to show that, yeah, these ducks... And I think, actually, the widget and gabble hybrid. I mean, kind

Madison Grimm:

of proves

Adam Grimm:

it like

Madison Grimm:

She inadvertently. Yeah.

Adam Grimm:

If if they will migrate... And, yeah, their survival rates, I don't know if they'd be as high as wild

Madison Grimm:

It's still higher than they would have been dying in the field. So

Adam Grimm:

That's that's the thing. And so if if she could get past that and then, yeah, maybe maybe have under second chance flight different places that can help do it, you know, do that work. So... Because I think there's a lot of people that... You know, it's not a it's not a real fix to the problem.

Adam Grimm:

I mean, the real the real problem is birds are getting mowed over in these fields, and it happens a lot. You know, and we all love farmers, and we need farmers, and we're not looking to stop farming, but if there's at least an out... An outlet that people could turn to if they do hit a nest and like, hey, you know, take the... You know, maybe you can raise these and release them. And that's that's what she's been doing.

Adam Grimm:

And, again, the visual impact of seeing those birds fly away.

Madison Grimm:

And it's something people are really excited to be a part of. Like, even out by us, like, I've had... If I get a call for nest, it's, like, too far far to reach or something. Mhmm. I mean, I can't really go much further than, like, forty five minutes to an hour around where we're at, especially once I've got a bunch of ducklings because it's, like, I'm out there taking care of them.

Madison Grimm:

It's like a full time job. And then with the art too, it's like, how do you juggle all this stuff? So I've had... I'll even just make, like, a Facebook post. Like, hey.

Madison Grimm:

Is anyone in this area, the Millbank area, that wants to go pick up these eggs and bring them down here? And I offer to pay people for gas money. No one ever takes it. They just love doing it. And I think I've got a list of people, probably at least 25 people that have volunteered.

Madison Grimm:

They're like go

Katie Burke:

get it.

Madison Grimm:

They're like, hey. This is where I live. Call me if you ever get any nests up in this area. And so I just go down the list. I'm like, oh, this person's pretty close, and call them, and they're like, oh, sure.

Madison Grimm:

We're on our way. And so it's super... Because it's pretty time sensitive.

Katie Burke:

I mean,

Madison Grimm:

next time you get an incubator. Yeah. I've got a couple hours. So, yeah, so it's really cool, and people are so excited about it. They're like, hey.

Madison Grimm:

Can we see what ducklings you've got? And I show them around, and they come. And... Yeah. So it's it's neat.

Madison Grimm:

People are excited to be a part

Adam Grimm:

of it and help It was fun when she was testifying because... And for the South Dakota, for the state law there. Because the the people at the committee, I think they were just so interested, wow, there's this young girl that can actually, like, carry on a conversation and answer questions. And they they started asking her just random duck questions. They're like, so, Madison, how long does it take for a a duck egg to hatch?

Adam Grimm:

Right? And she's like, well, the average is, like, twenty six days. Depends on the species. You know? If it's a teal, it's more like twenty four.

Adam Grimm:

Like Mhmm. Yeah. And they were just like, wow. This is just so great.

Madison Grimm:

They're like, what all ducks do you have around this? They're just... I'm like, does this have anything to do with my biller? We just Yeah. So it was it was pretty good.

Adam Grimm:

It's been a fun process. And, obviously, it's

Katie Burke:

And, obviously, you've learned. Yeah. I was like, yeah. You've learned so much.

Madison Grimm:

It just brings so

Katie Burke:

much to me. Life lessons you've learned to be, like, of adulting that half the things I don't know.

Madison Grimm:

A lot of adulting happening. Yes.

Katie Burke:

So... Well, thank you both. I wanna let y'all go so we can go up and see the end of the competition.

Adam Grimm:

See what happens.

Katie Burke:

But see what happens. But thank you both for coming on the show.

Adam Grimm:

Thanks for having us.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. And thanks, Kayci, for doing this.

Kayci Haider:

Glad to be here. Love engaging in this conversation.

Adam Grimm:

It was great.

Katie Burke:

Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you, Madison and Adam, for coming on the show, and thanks for Kayci for joining me. Thanks to our producer, Chris Isaac and Sam Crane, and thanks to you, our listener, for showing wetlands and waterfowl conservation.

VO:

That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ducks Unlimited Podcast brought to you by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. From post hunt unwinds to celebrations back at camp, Bird Dog delivers award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and check out ducks.org/du podcast for more stories, science, and all things waterfowl. Guest opinions are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited.

VO:

Until next time, stay fired up, stay focused, and stay tuned to the Ducks.