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Traditional business advice often focuses on rigid plans and step-by-step strategies. But that approach doesn’t resonate with everyone—especially creative people who crave purpose, freedom, and self-expression in their work.
Luckily there’s a different way to grow your business—one that leads with your heart and builds on your natural talents.
On this show, we hope to share unconventional advice that inspires you to create a business that reflects your true self, motivates you to take bolder action, and helps you experience greater freedom and abundance in both business and life. Whether you're an experienced business owner or just starting out, you'll learn from people who've forged their own path to success—and experts ready to guide you on yours.
Join us and learn how to align your business with your intuition and unique strengths and open up to a deeper, more magical kind of growth.
Hey there, friend, and welcome to another episode. So this episode is actually one that I didn't plan on doing. It wasn't in my original schedule of what I had planned for this first season, but it kind of happened by chance, and I'm really excited about it because it's a conversation with Dave Gerhardt. Now if you come from or are somewhat in the B2B marketing world like I am, Dave Gerhardt is a pretty big name and has been for a couple years. Currently, he's the founder and CEO of Exit Five, which is a really cool community for B2B marketers that I know lots of good people who are a part of it.
Speaker 1:And before that, he's been, pretty popular on LinkedIn for his thought leadership all around marketing. And Dave wouldn't mind me saying this because we talk about it in the episode, but I didn't really know him. I just knew his persona. And I assumed he was kind of your typical tech dude, right? All about tech and marketing.
Speaker 1:And a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago, well a month ago from when I'm recording this, I got invited to be on Dave's podcast to talk about messaging, which is what I do in my business in the B2B marketing space. And so we're talking about messaging, kind of talking about all the usual stuff. And about halfway through, Dave just sort of mentions that he journals. And so of course, instantly, I just latch onto that. And I'm like, wait, tell me about your journaling practice.
Speaker 1:And Dave's like, Oh, no one's ever asked me that question before. And so we got on this conversation about journaling, and then we kind of got into personal growth and all of the things that we both did behind the scenes of our businesses just to stay sane as entrepreneurs. And it was such a delightful surprise, just one of those conversations that are so fun and really light you up and you realize that you've met a kindred spirit when you didn't realize it. So on his episode, it was actually before I had launched this podcast. And I was like, you gotta get on my podcast and talk about all of, you know, your personal growth and all the things you do.
Speaker 1:So he agreed to do it, and we recorded this episode. Now what you won't hear, which is on the Cutting Cutting Room floor was in the beginning when I was talking to him and I was like, hey, Dave, just to be sure, are you are you afraid of, I mean, you cool with us getting a bit woo talking about spirituality? And he's like, Yeah, bring it on. So we kind of cover a lot of ground in this conversation. We talk a lot about his business and things that he faced, the struggles of deciding to make that first leap and then committing to a business and growing and all of that.
Speaker 1:But then we get into some of the things that he has found really helpful in his own journey as an entrepreneur, like exercise and being in nature and journaling and lots of good stuff. This is a really, really fun conversation. And if you had heard of Dave and never met him before, I would say this is a pretty good view into what a great guy he is. And there might just be some tips or techniques or some things that you might wanna try coming out of this. So I hope you enjoy this really fun conversation with me and Dave Gerhardt.
Speaker 1:To the Emma Stratton Show. This is a podcast that's all about sharing unconventional advice that will inspire you to create a business that reflects your true self so you can experience greater freedom and abundance in your work and life. I'm your host, Emma. Wow. I'm super excited that we, get to talk about this.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to dive into all the things. Just a question. When we spoke last.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a quote. Sure. What was that quote?
Speaker 2:Let me see. I actually wrote it. I wrote it in my notes. Let me let me pull it up. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Entrepreneurship is a vehicle for personal development.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I I don't know where this is from, but I have three. Entrepreneurship is the ultimate personal development program. Building a business is a personal growth vehicle masquerading as a capitalist pursuit.
Speaker 1:Hey. I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I actually really like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I I can't I don't know where that's from, but, know.
Speaker 1:Someone said it. Yeah. Sure. Someone said it.
Speaker 2:We're all copying each other.
Speaker 1:We're all copying each other, right? There's just the same truths going around being said in different ways. But that one is part of the reason why I started this podcast. Wanted to explore because that was exactly my experience. So I would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:How has that been your experience in the past few years as you've started and grown a business? How have you discovered it to be this vehicle for personal development?
Speaker 2:Well I think first for me, it's it starts with just kinda like rewinding back to how I got into this position of entrepreneurship in the first place. And so I was a marketing exec at a couple of startups, and both of those companies end up getting acquired. And I did well financially, not not enough where I could basically stop working forever, but I've done well enough where I'm I'm in a different place where, like, before it'd be like, oh, shit. Like, my I need to put $1,200 into my car. Like, that's gonna stress me out.
Speaker 2:And so, like, I've I've I don't have to worry about that stuff anymore, and I live a very comfortable life. But I was doing well enough where I think after those companies got acquired and I was trying to figure out like, well, what do I wanna do next? I kinda had this now that I look back at it two year period of wandering. Where I was doing consulting, doing advising, I invested in a couple of startups. Maybe I just kind of wanted to do that path, you know, adviser, consultant, investor, you know, be involved in marketing.
Speaker 2:I was writing content, I was creating things, I was I started this community, I was kind of making videos there. I started a golf podcast, I talked a lot about
Speaker 1:You did.
Speaker 2:Personal development and working out, and I kind of, oh, I've never shared any of this. I took a I signed up for a I signed up for piano lessons. I signed up for guitar lessons. I signed up for a photography class.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I got into running. Like, I just did all these things. I got into all these things. And and there's kind of nuggets of that. Like, I've been into music my whole life.
Speaker 2:I I used to play in a in a band in high school, and but I I wanted to, like, kinda, you know, take my skills in each of those areas to, like, actually be legit. And so I just kinda was exploring around and around, and then eventually ended up making long story short is I ended up making exit five now my main thing. Right? And what I see now is that that period of wandering, a, was amazing. I look back on it with fondness now because I'm like, oh, you little boy.
Speaker 2:You were you were just lost. You know? But you gotta you know, it's it's like a it's almost like dating in some way where if you don't date a bunch of people, you know, I'm lucky to have met my wife now, but it wasn't, you know, without meeting a bunch of other people before that to realize like, oh, this is my person. Right? And so I think a part of that.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't until now, now that I see I've been two years in building this business, and I'm like, man, I would have been selling myself short if I just did an hour or two of consulting calls a day, and then played guitar and went for a walk in the woods. And I feel like now this, to tie this back to the entrepreneurship and personal development story is like, I'm I'm 37. I have a lot to long way to go in my life and my career. But hiring a team, building a business, solving challenges, solving problems, you know, being creative, winning and losing together as a team, figuring out how to grow and scale a business. I kind of box myself as the, like, I'm a b to b marketing thought leader on LinkedIn, and so I have to that's my identity, and that was what I was kind of burnt out on.
Speaker 2:But building my own business now has yes, it's in the space of marketing, but I see myself more as an entrepreneur who's building a business. And wearing that hat has helped me grow my muscles as opposed to, you know, letting them atrophy in what should be the prime of my career. And so I feel like I'm doing great work, I'm doing it with a team, I'm doing it with people. And so when I think about entrepreneurship and personal development, I'm like, well, none of that would have been possible if I didn't decide to spend a bunch of money and hire a bunch of people and basically burn the boats. Know, obviously didn't put myself in a position where I would be screwed if exit five didn't fail, but you know, we decided to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on payroll and people when I very easily could have just done a solo business where I was going on that path.
Speaker 2:And I feel like I've grown so much in the last two years since deciding to invest in this business personally, professionally. I'm learning new skills, and I'm having a lot of fun. And so that's kinda how I that's kinda how that that part come you know, came together.
Speaker 1:Well, mean, the two years of wandering actually sound really good to me. I mean, per so I'm like, I'll take the wandering and the walking in the woods and playing guitar and doing a couple hours of work along the way. And that and that's really more about what my soul is all about. That's totally my vibe. You investing in people and building a business, to me, I'm like, that's really going all in.
Speaker 1:That's taking a risk. That's kind of jumping without being sure of the nets there. Something that I have found is that the entrepreneurial journey often sheds light on areas of ourselves, yeah, of ourselves that we need to either change or grow or even heal. Like through the challenges of you know, growing a business, the things, the new things you're faced with often reveal a part of you that you're like, Oh, okay, I need to change this. So for me, just my, an example for me, when I first decided to go on my own and start my own business, I freaked out.
Speaker 1:I had so much fear and I realized after a couple years that I had a scarcity mindset. Like I had money mindset issues, that I didn't really know I had. I mean, was always kind of cheap. You know, I had like aspects of it. Was like, I'm kind of cheap.
Speaker 1:I'll like wear that old fleece forever. But it wasn't until I had a business and you had to, you know, make your own money and invest in things that I was like, Oh, I have issues here. And I ended up, you know, addressing them, doing mindset coaching, etc. So I was just intrigued. I mean, to everyone on the outside looking at you, Dave, they're probably, Oh, Dave's perfect.
Speaker 1:He's got it nailed. He's got this awesome business. Like everything he does is a slam dunk. So is that true? Or have you have you come up across any personal, like, oh, I might need to look at this?
Speaker 2:Is that true to people? That that feels nice if that's true.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I mean, I can't speak for everyone. Right? I cannot speak for everyone. I'm sure you've got haters.
Speaker 1:Right? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Of course. But that well, most of the haters are people who don't actually know me, which is the best part about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think I think, you know, the people that know you know you, but I think a lot of people kind of quote unquote know you from your work. I mean, I, I'm someone who's just known you from your work until recently. Sure. And yeah, you look like you're nailing it.
Speaker 1:So help us all realize that there's still things that you've had to work on. Is there anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, so what what I guess it's hard it's hard to say because I I feel like a lot of knock on wood, I haven't stumbled a lot in building this business, but I think there's a lesson in there, which is like, I am the business that I've built now is on the back of my of basically everything that I've done since 2009 when I kinda started a real career. And you know, it's not like I used to be a school teacher or I was a small business owner. Like, I I started my career working in marketing, and it's what I've done for fifteen years now, and then I made a business out of it. And so a lot of that has been building along the way. And I kinda came up in this era of social media, of content.
Speaker 2:And so since early two thousand you know, early twenty tens, I've been writing about marketing and what I was doing in my job online. You're part of that circle, you know, where you can have a blog, you can have a newsletter, you can be active on Twitter or LinkedIn, and I think that's been an incredible part of this this piece. Right? And so I've kind of always built on that, and so it's not like I made this I didn't make a crazy jump to like go and, you know, go start some like new business in a new industry, right? But I did make a mistake, and the mistake that I made actually was more I should have bet on myself earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was the CMO at a company called Privy, and Privy in June of twenty twenty one got acquired by Attentive, which is a ecommerce company, SaaS product. And I got to Privy, I left Drift after four years where I was VP of marketing, and that's kind of where that's the brand that I guess I made my name at, where that company grew really fast. They became known for their marketing and brand. I was a part of that, and so I got a lot of love, and basically my career grew like as that company grew. And then after four years, it just was the right time for me to leave and do something else, and so I went to Privy.
Speaker 2:While I was there, I started my I started building my Patreon. I started Exit Five, which is at the time was called the A List, and it was on Patreon where basically I started my own podcast where I would share stuff behind the scenes, and it was private and you could pay for it. Right? And that was going really well. Small side project.
Speaker 2:I'm CMO at Privy. This is fun. Right? But then May so so actually June of twenty twenty one, Privy gets acquired, and the the people over at Drift gave me a call, and they were like, hey. We want you to come back.
Speaker 2:And it was kind of one of those things where was like a relationship that I was in where, you know, your ex lover is like, Come back. We need you. We miss you so much. And it feels really good in that moment. And you're like, Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what? You do need me. Right?
Speaker 1:I knew it. I knew you needed You'd be nothing but You knew
Speaker 2:me, right? And so I went there and I said yes to doing that. And I think pretty quickly and joining back there, I was like, Shit, what did I do? And it was this is no disrespect to anyone that was there. It was just like I had I had gotten out of there, and I had built something on my own, and I had done well on my own.
Speaker 2:And now all of a sudden, I'm back in this it almost felt like, you know, being back in your high school again or something. Right? Except the challenge was, like, they brought me in to basically kind of do a, you know, do a solo thing where I would just work with the founders pretty closely on the brand. But that seems really good on paper. But then you piss everybody off internally when, like, you're you know, you feel like you're stepping on the CMO's toes and this other person on the marketing team's toes.
Speaker 2:And so I I I went back thinking I could just be kinda like this, you know, copywriter, creator, and I I wouldn't have to have any meetings, and I could kinda be solo creator inside of this company. Well, when the company has hundreds of employees, you're gonna you know, you can't just be like, and here's the new deck for the company narrative. And everyone's like, wait a second. Where did he do that? Who did he what?
Speaker 2:And so my days ended up being, like, filled with, you know, messages from, like, hey. Can we we need to have a meeting about this. We need have and I'm like, woah. This is not what I wanted. And I think that was just a lesson of, like, damn it.
Speaker 2:I really really had this moment pretty quickly where I was like, I should have just let the privy thing ride out, and I should have just bet on myself. And I think despite having, you know, four to six years of pretty good success in marketing and and even I had built up my own thing with exit five. At the time, it was doing close to $10,000 a month in revenue. So I absolutely could have quit quit and just done that on my own without worrying about where the revenue is gonna come from. But I still had that fear of like, can I go out on my own though?
Speaker 2:Like, what about am I gonna get paid? And I was already making a $100 a year from it. Right? And so it was like, it just never ends. Right?
Speaker 2:It's it's it's where am I how am I gonna get paid? What about health what about health insurance? Like Yeah. So many of these things that I see now, and I'm like, those are just silly limiting beliefs. Those are excuses, and I think you need to just take that pill and swallow it and be like, all right, I'm on my own now.
Speaker 2:I have to figure this out. And I was kinda like half in, half out. And so that was that was the biggest mistake that I that I made. The other thing was really just going for too long on my own. And I fell into this solopreneur narrative, and I'm bragging about how much money I'm making and how little I'm working and yada yada yada.
Speaker 2:And there's a whole movement online about, like, you know, four hour work week essentially. You know? And I love some of that stuff. I apply a lot of that to my to my, you know, days now. And and trust me, I'm not working a hundred hour weeks, and, you know, I live a nice life still.
Speaker 2:But I kinda fell for that, and I felt like I needed to I needed to basically be that person who was like anti work. And that was such a that was such a negative mindset. I think I was coming out of like a funk kinda also in COVID, and it was this weird time to be I guess it was like a weird time to be interested in capitalism in some ways. It was like, is it okay to make money? Is it okay to grow your business?
Speaker 2:Or do I need to just like shut everything down and just like, you know, be do something to give back? And I'm not doing meaningful work, you know. There's doctors that are saving lives, and my kids' teachers are doing this crazy stuff during the pandemic, and they're getting paid $50 a year. And here I am, like, you know, writing about b to b marketing, and this is my life. And I had this, like, existential crisis.
Speaker 2:And so it's less about did I do something that failed and more of just this, like, identity crisis. And I was like, am I am I gonna go to my grave and on my tombstone it's gonna say, like, was a great B2B marketer? Yeah. And that was like the biggest issue for me. And I needed to figure out like what my identity was and where to go.
Speaker 2:And I've had a lot of peace with it now since then where it's like, you know what? We all we all need to have jobs. We all need to create freedom and finance you know, financial freedom for our families to the best of our ability. And this this job in marketing, yes, is marketing saving the world? It it it's not.
Speaker 2:But this job in marketing, you know what it allows me to do? It allows me to be an amazing husband and father and be present and be active in my local community and volunteer and support small businesses and be a good community member, it's given me the means to be able to do that. And there's only so many things you can control in life, and I'm like, you know what? This is it doesn't need to be my identity. This is like how I generate income, and it happens to be something that I'm good at, and it happens to be something that I'm that that is fun.
Speaker 2:You know that, like, Venn diagram of, like, what you're good at, what you enjoy doing, and where you can get paid? Yes. I think that's so important. Right? Because, like, yeah, would I love to just be, like, walking in the woods all day?
Speaker 2:And I yes. But, like, you need to make money. Just happens.
Speaker 1:Do it. I knew you would want to have the life of walking in the woods.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Trust me. Trust me. If I had more money than I do right now, I would be doing that.
Speaker 2:Right? But and so that that but also, like, there's just there's just something like I I was just sitting in my office all day, my kids had no idea what I did, and they didn't I think it's important for them to see me doing work and to see me building a company and to see me doing things. And so I just kind of like, I finally escaped that mindset and I went all in on exit five and I I it ended up being the most amazing thing ever because that's the thing that has allowed me to be like, yes, I maybe I came up through B2B marketing, but we have a team now, we have six people, I think we can get to 10, I think we can build a $10,000,000 business. And I see the downstream effects of that. It's not just like, oh, look at this guy talking about B2B marketing, but like we've created jobs for people who were miserable at their prior job, and now you know one guy on my team is like, I'm having so much fun in my career, my job has meaning, I'm having so much fun doing this, like thank you, this is an incredible opportunity.
Speaker 2:Somebody fresh out of college who could have gone to work at a big company is just crushing inside of our company. Just being around other people, you you know what I'm trying to get at? Like, it's it's it's creating so I think we're meant to create with each other, and so what? It happens to be B2B marketing. It's not necessarily that I made this big mistake, but I think I wasted so much time getting caught up in this like identity crisis as opposed to like embracing it and understanding my real purpose in life and seeing where this fits in the bigger picture.
Speaker 1:I personally believe that the entrepreneurial journey and the life journey is a spiritual journey. And I read a quote the other day that kind of describes spirituality as really just the process of becoming more of who you truly are, which I think it makes it more accessible you think about it that way. And what you just described actually is something that you healed. And I think it was this, the identity. And I can relate to this as well, as like, I'm a thought leader on B2B marketing.
Speaker 1:Like, people ask me what's their favorite company is doing messaging right now. Like, this is me. I think it sounds like you were wrestling with that kind of restrictive identity. You would outgrown it, Dave. You would you've gone beyond it.
Speaker 1:Right? But you're still in the old identity. And then you finally got to this point where you embrace this new one as like a team builder and providing opportunities for others. And that's amazing. It you wouldn't have experienced that if you hadn't outgrown the old identity.
Speaker 1:And I think that's super cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and and it's I see I see a bigger path now. I see, like, I'm creating a business. I'm creating a company. I see the value beyond, you know, having hot takes about b to b marketing.
Speaker 2:It's like
Speaker 1:God, hate hot takes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I love hot. I love hot. I love a hot take.
Speaker 1:Can't stand hot dishes.
Speaker 2:You won't believe Google Gemini dropped the most explosive update in the history of AI. Watch this video now. But I you know, it's like, yes, B2B marketing is a thing that we're doing, but we're solving so many challenges. So it's like, oh, we had this challenge face of the brand, how do we evolve around that? We did an event two weeks ago in Boston, and half of the people at the event were going up to Danielle on our team and being like, I read your news.
Speaker 2:Nobody even it was just this crazy thing. Nobody cares that I'm here.
Speaker 1:Great. Right?
Speaker 2:It's amazing. There's other people, and that feels so damn cool. Right? Or, like, you know, we I was traveling this week. I was in North Carolina, and we did an event.
Speaker 2:We did a virtual event. And Dan, who's who's our COO, texted me, and he's like, just wanna let you know there's 720 people live on this webinar right now, and you haven't done a single thing for it. It's amazing. Like but we figured that out. It was, like, the process of figuring that out.
Speaker 2:And and we've done events, and we're creating new content, and we're figuring out ways to grow. It's like, forget that it's b to b marketing. It's like, it's this problem solving that is super fun, and that is filling my bucket. My kid we my wife and kids and I my my daughter learned this at school. They say, what every night when we sit down at dinner, we do what dipped your bucket?
Speaker 2:What filled your bucket? And so everybody goes around and say something that so I yeah. I love that term. But it's it's filling my bucket, like building this company. And, yes, it's in a space that's marketing, and I definitely see a lot of value in it.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, I never said this publicly, and so I don't want people to take it the wrong way and be like, oh my god, look at this privileged asshole, poor guy. But I think also during that time, it was like not a lot of love for the male, the white bald male tech bros. And so it was like which I'm not complaining about that, right? Like, we've had it easy. I'm not saying that as a big deal.
Speaker 2:We've had it very easy, please don't take it the wrong way. But like, on top of all those things, it was like, oh, look at this guy, you know, marketing guru, classic male tech bro. Like, I am a male, I do work in tech, but if you knew me personally, you'd actually be like, that's not who he is. Yeah. And I think a lot of that stuff eats at me inside, and I try to not I say to my wife all the time, I'm like, I actually I couldn't imagine being actually famous and how fucking miserable that would be.
Speaker 2:Right. Because, like, I'm just a marketing guy, and like, the way people will try to dunk on me sometimes just because, I'm like, Could you actually imagine being like Taylor Swift or Justin Bee? Like, if you've ever watched any of those documentaries, all those people have crazy, serious, understandably so mental health problems, and I feel that in the tiny, tiny, tiny, tiniest way, and I don't want any sympathy from anybody. Please don't take this the wrong way. But I think it was like that was also a part of it, too.
Speaker 2:It's just like, Oh, man, not a good time to be like, Look at me, I'm an entrepreneur. Building my marketing business. Everyone's Shut up, man, the world is crumbling.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that's a factor in it. And so I think a big thing for me has been also like the brand, we're building a real company, which is Exit five. It's not the like Dave Gerhardt show. Right? I I love Gary Vee, but I'm not trying to be Gary Vee in, like, the face of all of this.
Speaker 2:I want us to cross the chasm of, like, you know, maybe people who follow me from Drift or whatever, and and we're seeing it now. I want people to I want more people to know exit five than than Dave, and that's an intentional decision. And that's been a fun part of, like, solving this problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That's a huge problem to solve. I mean, it's something I I experience as well on a smaller scale. All right.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about
Speaker 2:Wait. Say say more about that. In what way?
Speaker 1:Well, I think, you know, I am known in LinkedIn. I you know, I have small I have a small, you know, kind of circle of influence and I'm all about messaging for tech companies. And that's, you know, I started my journey. That was how I started my business. And it was different for me because I didn't come from tech.
Speaker 1:I, was an outsider coming into a new industry. I was a woman, brown skin. All those things where I had imposter syndrome, all these things I had to overcome. And then grows up in it. Now I'm the voice of B2B messaging a voice.
Speaker 1:I have a book, but you know, this podcast is me like I've outgrown. I'm not just I'm, that is just a small part of me. Right? I'm more. So by company Punchy, it's similar.
Speaker 1:It's like, it's punchy, but it's it's Emma Stratton. You know? And so that is something that I also experience of like being kind of perceived having an identity as one thing, but really wanting to expand that. And so I'm doing this podcast and I've started a substack, and I'm like, well, I I said to everyone in my newsletter, I'm like, I've launched something, a podcast in a substack, and it's not about messaging. I'm like, let me be clear.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, like, hey, it's about personal growth spirituality and And really it's, and I think you, you did it as well. Right? It's you follow the heart's calling. And sometimes you wander.
Speaker 1:And sometimes you you don't follow it. You go back to the old job. For me, was like, got another in I got an in house job. And it was like the second I I stepped in, I was like, what have I done? It was like, day
Speaker 2:just said, right? It's the same thing.
Speaker 1:It was like, what have I done? And it's like, this has been designed to smack me in the face and get me back on track. Right? Absolutely. So yeah.
Speaker 1:But let's talk because this is how we first started bonding.
Speaker 2:Can just can I just build on one thing you said, by way? I also think, like, maybe you maybe you came up in, you know, messaging and whatever, but I think I've had a similar thought, which is like, we're all people, right? We're humans, so I've met so many inter like you and I are connecting, right? Like, I've met so many interesting people, humans, through marketing. And so like there's lots of other stuff for us to talk about.
Speaker 2:We're interested in this, you know, we're interested in this thing or that thing, or family or kids or spirituality or personal development. And so like I also have learned like, actually, no, Dave. This is you going deep on this marketing thing actually allows you to connect with lots of people. I mean, I've met people from literally all around the world. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So I just gotta try to reframe how I think about it, and it's healthy to do that. I gotta I've met people from all around the world through marketing that I don't know if I I would have met otherwise. And so like I think it's amazing that you've taken your kind of niche in b to b messaging, and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna use that to talk to people about something that's not marketing, and I I love that. I think it's a great idea and a great approach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. It's nice to hear that. Especially when I'm in early days, but we'll see. So we originally sort of kind of started talking about these subjects because I asked you about your journaling practice and you're like, no one's ever asked me about that.
Speaker 1:So I want to hear about kind of like your favorite activities or rituals or practices, personal development things? Like, what do you do to keep you sane, to keep you motivated, to keep you calm? Like, what are your some of your favorite things that either you've done or you're doing right now? I always love to know what people do.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy. I'm so excited to to talk to like, people care about this? This is so exciting to talk about.
Speaker 1:I think they do because I think we're all, you know, we're all in this we're all trying to figure it out and feel peace and and all that. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, so I've always for me, the number one thing has always been physical activity in some way. And I think when I was younger, I did it because I I guess I had to. In college, I I was an athlete, roughly speaking, and you have to work out. And now I work out for the physical benefits, of course, but the mental benefits. And so I start I usually work out in the morning every day.
Speaker 2:I do it every day because it makes me feel amazing. And so why would I not wanna do it every day? I don't like the I don't like the thinking of, like, well, I do, you know, and I train Tuesdays and Thursdays. And so it starts with some type of physical activity for me. Usually, that's weightlifting in some form, and then I either hike or go for a run every day.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing, though, there is I it has to be outside, especially when I spend my day on a lot of meetings or or, you know, stuff like this or or Zoom calls. There's something just about being outside in nature that is amazing, and the concept of, like, you know, forest bathing, or if you look that up, or any of those things is 100% real. If I wake up and I'm in a my wife actually just told me the other day, she's like, the other day, you were being such an asshole. And I wanted to just say to you, like, did you go for a run yet? Because I was like, oh, please.
Speaker 2:If he didn't go for a run, doesn't go for a run so he can come back. And and and that is literally I feel it in my life. And so if I wake up and the first thing I do is open my laptop and I open up Slack, like, I'm gonna be grumpy Dave, not on purpose. And so I gotta have loads of physical activity, like, I'm like a dog in some ways, where like, need I need to just get tired out, and I feel like this is a hack for my mood. It's not just about the physical results, obviously I'm super jacked,
Speaker 1:not Totally. Look at this guys.
Speaker 2:Totally. It's really about the mental, it helps me sleep, and it helps my mood, and so every day I try to get outside as much as I can, I try to walk, run, hike, and lift? The second thing that I do is I try to read every day, and this is not easy because reading is still super boring to me, and I often, like, will find myself putting myself to sleep. But I find that I mean, you have loads of books on your bookshelves behind you. There is just something unbelievable about, like, getting inspiration, getting unstuck, the discipline of, like, you know, reading something for ten minutes.
Speaker 2:There's just so much, like, pattern matching, and it it gives me especially as a I would like to consider myself a creative individual. If I'm not reading, I am not my my creativity is is low. Yeah. And so I gotta read at some point. I usually try to read something work related during the day, and then at night, I I can't read any of that.
Speaker 2:And so I'm laying I usually lay in bed and read read fiction. And then I started this this process of journaling probably seven or eight years ago. And I just basically every night before bed, I write down what happened that day.
Speaker 1:Simple.
Speaker 2:It's simple. And it's amazing because I have you know, I should I should give you a picture, but I have eight years of journals, and I like to just go back, and I can literally just open a journal, and I can go and say, okay. Today is, you know, Friday, March 21. What was I doing last year at this on this day? I can tell I could tell you exactly what happened.
Speaker 2:Some days are longer than the others, some days I'm super tired or I'm traveling or I was out late or whatever. Some days, you know, if I had a bad day, I might write three pages and I you know, instead of one or something like that, But I keep a log. The minimum is a log of what happened that day, and then the maximum is, like, a log of what happened that day and also, like, I had a terrible day at work. You know, this thing happened, and it's stressing me out. I just feel like the act of getting that out.
Speaker 2:And so I I do it to keep a log because I think it's fun, especially as I grow my family. And then I also do it to get the get the demons out of my head, if which is an incredible exercise, actually. You just gotta write it out. Yeah. And then I also have a, separately, separate from that, I keep a work notebook because I found that my, like, journal, I don't want to have, like, the thing, it's not the place for, like, my to do list and things I need to do.
Speaker 2:And so it's an amazing exercise to have. You know, I I love, like, Post it notes, but I just have, a Moleskine notebook, and that's kind of my work notebook. And so usually before I go to bed at some point, I just sit down for five minutes, and I write out all of the things that I wanna get done tomorrow or the things that I need to do or the things that are in my head, that is an amazing activity because it just gets it out of my head and my sleep and my stress is so much better because I've now put it over there, and it's in this book, and I'm gonna get to it tomorrow. And then I know between that and my calendar, I can just kinda wake up and do my thing. I also use my calendar pretty religiously.
Speaker 2:I'm not as crazy like some you you see some entrepreneurs posting their calendars like, you know, twelve to 12:30, lunch. I don't put on my calendar, lunch is, you better believe lunch is going to happen regardless, but I do like to schedule out, you know, intentional things, and then I typically, usually in the mornings from nine to noon is kind of like my no meeting time, unless I'm doing a podcast with someone great on a Friday. But, like, nine to noon is typically like, I like to save that for working time.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And then if I need to do meetings, I will try to do meetings from one until 04:00 in the afternoon. What else is in my is in my personal tool tool kit?
Speaker 1:So I love running, hiking, outside. I'm the exact same way. I love running. It must I hate the treadmill. I hate being inside.
Speaker 1:Like, it must be outside.
Speaker 2:Listen. Treadmill's worse for you anyway. Treadmill's not like a yeah. Absolutely. The treadmill's not like a real run.
Speaker 2:It's moving for you. And I I feel like for me, 50% of the benefit of running is being outside. And so
Speaker 1:I don't outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Care what the weather is. You're you're in you're in Oregon. Obviously, you got, you know, crappy weather too. I would I would rather go for a run when it's 20 degrees and pouring rain out here in Vermont than I would go on the treadmill.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I I'm totally with you. So I was gonna ask you, like, would you describe anything that you do as spirituality? Right? And that's, you know, maybe it's the category, the name resonate, right?
Speaker 1:It's like, and I've had people, so when I first talked to other people in business, and I was like, Oh, I really want to start talking about, you know, the spiritual growth behind business growth. And they're like, oh, don't use the word spirituality. That, you know, that's a bad idea. But I've just decided, screw it. I'm gonna use that word.
Speaker 1:But I believe that being out in nature is a spiritual experience.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I I would I would high five you through the screen if I could. Yeah. I I talk to myself out there alone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:People think I'm people think I'm nuts, but I don't I can't. If I'm going for a hike or running the woods, I'm not there's no headphones. No. The excitement of it is just whatever happens in my thoughts out there. And then I have this hike that I do pretty much every day after I drop my kids off at school, and when I get to the top, it's this beautiful view of Lake Champlain here in Vermont, and you can see all out over the over the town and everything, and it's unbelievable, especially when it's clear out.
Speaker 2:And I think especially in this world of AI and tech, I really try to be intentional about this, but I I like to touch the ground, touch the trees. I say a little, like, thank you. I'm I'm not a religious person, but I just like to when I'm on top of that little mountain, I like to zoom out and think of my like, I like I literally picture my brain. Like, I zoom all the way out, like, in a movie, and I think of myself standing in Vermont, which a tiny little state in The United States, which is a part of country, which is a part of the world, and I just zoom all the way out, and it really trips me out to be like, Dude, nothing matters. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, this is you're a tiny little peanut here. And I just, like, also say thank you for for nature, for being, you know, for being alive, for being healthy, for being happy, and just just like a moment of gratitude and appreciation. I did it recently. I did it I was playing golf in North Carolina at this amazing place, and I'm just walking down this one fairway, and the sun is shining on my face. It's, you know, 65 degrees out.
Speaker 2:And I just, you feel it, you know, you feel the sun on your face. I just took my hat off and I just touched the ground. I just like, I like, I hope nobody sees me doing this. But I'm like, I just touched the ground. Was like, Thank you.
Speaker 2:I live an amazing life. I'm just happy to be here. I do stuff like that all the time, and I I don't know if it works. I don't I don't know if it does anything.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, Dave. I mean, is first of all, I love that you touched the ground. I think that's beautiful. I think gratitude, you know, on a on a a woo woo level, right, when we express gratitude, we attract more of the good, more of the things we're thankful for
Speaker 2:in I I believe that. I believe that too. And I try to like other things that I do is I just think, like, it's very easy to get caught up in the routine of life. And so I really try to especially, like, my wife and I are both at home. We see each other all the time.
Speaker 2:We could be in the same house, and we could go the whole day without talking to each other. But I try to make it I try to go out of my way to be like, no phone, no computer, I love you. Make a joke, look each other in the eye, like, hang out. Have conversation again. Right?
Speaker 2:That that stuff matters so much, those connections. Have you ever read this guy Anthony DeMello?
Speaker 1:What no. I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He's like some some spiritual writer. I figured you would know because, you
Speaker 1:know, spirituality. Anyway When I say spiritual, like, I'm not I'm not saying religious. Hope that's clear. That's fine. I'm with you.
Speaker 1:It's I'm I'm non religious, but spiritual. So Anthony Demo, did he write what book did he did he write?
Speaker 2:He's got this one book called awareness and this other book called the way to love. And, you know, a bunch of other tech bros have recommended them, so I'm I read them. Right? But he said and I I just read this last night. I pulled up on my read my read wise.
Speaker 2:And he talks about basically he's like, the feeling understand like, there's a the feeling of when, like, you do something good and people say nice things to you and applaud you. Right? There's that feeling, and then there's the feeling of like, you just had lunch with your best friend, and you're just giggling and making jokes, and the whole time you're not thinking about your phone. There's like those two feelings, like which feeling is better? It's always that second one.
Speaker 2:That like soulful, like, connection feeling. Right? And I just said to my wife the other day, I came back and I I just was, like, playing golf with four or five people in North Carolina, and I wasn't I wasn't doing work. I wasn't on my phone. We were just like a bunch of guys with similar lives and similar hobbies hanging out together, just being around humans and connecting.
Speaker 2:Like, that stuff is so underrated. And so that's just another thing. So, yes, bringing that gratitude. And I need to do it. I also believe in speaking things into existence.
Speaker 1:Like Yes.
Speaker 2:I think that negative thoughts, like, drive your even if you have to fake it. But, like, I I, in my little journal, sometimes I have these things, like little mantras that I write, and I just Yeah. Months ago, I just started writing, like, good things happen to me, and good things will continue to happen to me. Yeah. And I believe that and speaking it to existence, and, like, I kinda have all these little things.
Speaker 2:This is really funny. My wife so I'm a Gemini, my birthday is June 9, send your direct mail, right? But my wife had the newspaper the other day, and she cut this out for me, this is my horoscope. I mean, obviously this is just like a marketer's dream, right? Horoscope, it's not real, but we believe, whatever, I like to, you know, confirmation bias, so it says, this is Gemini, she cut this out and she gave it to me and she said, it says, I predict that you will soon have reason to celebrate a resounding success.
Speaker 2:You will claim a well deserved reward. You may even shiver with amazement and gratification as you marvel at how many challenges you overcame to emerge triumphant. So just this amazing little, like whether this is true or not, I don't know. But the fact that I cut it out and we have it now, it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy, and I think stuff like that is really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I've leaned on affirmations. I use affirmations a lot. I have over the years. One of the biggest ones for me, and I probably used it, I don't know, four or five years ago, and it's from a book, The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix.
Speaker 2:I don't
Speaker 1:know if you've heard of that book. It's really But the book, the mantra is, every day I expand in abundant success and love and I inspire others to do the same. Love Yeah. Day I expand in abundance, joy and love, and yeah. And inspire others to do the same.
Speaker 1:And I would just I had it like in the bathroom and I go to the bathroom, like side of my bed. But it's really important to speak things into existence. When you said that you walk to this point where you have that vista, I have the same, I do a run and kind of the halfway point. By, we're in the Willamette Valley where the vineyards are, and it's, in this farming area with vineyards. And you get up at the top and you just have this beautiful view of kind of mountains and hills.
Speaker 1:And it's like, there's something about that limitless perspective. And I say thank you, but I often speak things into existence at that spot because it just feels like anything is possible when you have this view.
Speaker 2:So I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I
Speaker 2:love that. And also, it's just so easy to get it would be so easy to get to the top and just be like, Alright, turn around, come back But I think that's like a metaphor for life. It's like, God, we spend so much time trying to climb the hill, and then we get to the thing, and we're just like, See you. We're like, No. No.
Speaker 2:Hold on. No. And so I think it's a forcing function to be like, Just take a minute. Take a minute and appreciate this and appreciate yourself. You know I'm also just a believer in, like, I believe in the personal development stuff because I think you have to be able to manage your mental health and your you are your own person.
Speaker 2:You are responsible for yourself. You are your own company. You know, I can't if I'm not taking care of how I feel, I'm I can't be a good dad. I can't be a good business partner. I can't be a good husband.
Speaker 2:I can't be a good teammate. And I've just seen so many, I mean, I'm sure you have too, but you see so many entrepreneurs and founders who end up, you know, maybe building a successful business, but they end up throwing away their relationships and their career. And a big part of my motivation for building my business now is I want to have both. I want to be a good husband, a present father, and build a successful business at the same time. And I want to make that the narrative as opposed to like, nope.
Speaker 2:You know, somebody once told me, like, yeah, if you want to be successful, like, you got to not see your family, you got to travel, you got to do all this stuff, and I just think that's a bunch of BS. I don't think it has to be that way. I think that's a self fulfilling prophecy too. And so anyway, my point is just like you you are your we only have ourselves, right, and if you don't have your mental health, your physical health, then you can't go do any of the things. And so I don't think it's corny I don't think it's corny at all to believe in personal development and self development.
Speaker 2:Like that is literally the number one thing that you have, and so whether it's a mantra, whether it's a workout, whether it's something, like you gotta have your kind of like personal operating system. And then on the flip side of that, though, there is this whole you know, we've gotten in this whole culture of, like, you know, every morning, you gotta wake up and get direct sunlight and go in the cold plunge and go in the sauna and, you know, like, only eat, you know, raw meat and, you know, don't eat it's it's insane. There you know, I believe in having those, like, I believe in those things separately, but it's like, I I if I can't function without if you can't function without your morning routine, then you're not gonna be successful. And so for me, the simplified version of my morning routine is like wake up, go work out, and then the rest takes care of itself. But I I don't want people to listen in on our conversation, Emma, and and and think about, like, all the nonsense that, you know, you gotta do in the morning to get this morning routine.
Speaker 2:You know? Trees
Speaker 1:are do a lot of hiking amongst trees. Right? You're in Yeah. Trees. And have you ever hugged a tree or leaned against a tree?
Speaker 2:I've never I've never physically hugged a tree, but I love touching trees.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Touching trees. Yeah. Yeah. That's similar.
Speaker 1:So one thing that I've just come to learn is that, you know, all kind of everything is made of energy. And trees are kind of the ultimate in grounding energy, the feeling of groundedness. If you think about their roots and their sturdiness. And sometimes when you're feeling really like, whew, kinda like touching the tree, leaning against the tree, and really just, yeah, being with the tree, you can feel that, like, peaceful grounding energy, kinda coming into you. So that's the other thing.
Speaker 1:Get out amongst the trees. Yeah. It's incredible.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the treadmill thing for a second. Like, the the woods just smells so much better. Like you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like It does.
Speaker 2:There's something to that smelling smelling nature, and, you know, I'm I'm in Vermont, and so, like, the smell of, like, burning actually, so this is the we we moved recently, and I have, a a real house in the country now. And our wood the wood stove that we have, like, you know, there's a fireplace, a wood stove, that's become our central source of heat in the winter.
Speaker 1:It's awesome.
Speaker 2:And there is something that's so unexpectedly amazing that I didn't understand, and and my wife and her her dad have and her mom have told me about this because they're Vermonters, but there's something about burning your own wood, chopping wood, making firewood, making kindling, being outside, carrying it in the house, using your hands, making a fire that is unbelievable. And so the, you know, part of the ritual now is well, it's getting warm again, but, like, you know, building a fire every morning is actually it's it's another amazing thing where I just I'll build a fire, and then I just kinda sit there and zone out. And it's my wife and I actually fight over who's gonna get up and make the fire.
Speaker 1:I love it. We have fires outside all the time. I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2:But think about the smell like, just like the smell and the wood, and and so anyway. And especially if if everything in life is gonna be, you know, technolog you know, technologified and AIified and whatever is happening. You gotta you take your shoes off. Be barefoot.
Speaker 1:You know? You have to.
Speaker 2:And I just feel very thankful to be, like, raising my children in a place where they are getting muddy and dirty and being outside. You know? No. Then they can go be on their iPads for hours inside. But
Speaker 1:It's all about that balance.
Speaker 2:We gotta, yeah, we gotta have that balance. We gotta have that balance. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have had so much fun talking, and I love everything. I I I think my favorite thing that I've learned is that you touch the ground and say thank you. I think that is one of the most beautiful things, and I hope that all of our listeners love hearing that as well. Because I think it's beautiful, Dave. So thank you so much sharing.
Speaker 2:Little things. This is a this is a rooster. You know about these?
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's maybe it's a Portuguese maybe it's a Portuguese thing, but my wife's yeah. Portugal. My wife's mother, her neighbor, their friend, she's very spiritual, and she said that these are these are supposed to be good luck. So maybe somebody listening to your show is supposed to give you good vibes. Somebody listening to your show can can tell us, but there there there's more that I could show you, but just a glimpse of spirituality.
Speaker 2:I I showed you my I showed you my heart yeah. There's the tech pro for you. Right? I showed you my horoscope, and I showed you my my rooster. You know, there's a lot there's a lot more here.
Speaker 1:Here's what
Speaker 2:you got hiding back there. I there's some things I can't show you on camera,
Speaker 1:but Alright. Well, we'll have to get you on another time when we go deeper, when we're ready for kind of the next level more advanced episode.
Speaker 2:Thank you. This was really fun. I anytime I get know, don't have to come and talk about marketing for an hour, I'm glad to do it.
Speaker 1:So Me too. Cool. Hey, my friend. You've been listening to the Emma Stratton show. If you'd like to follow me and my writing, you can find me on Substack.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening.