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The Women in Science and Medicine podcast features discussions with female scientists within West Virginia University and other institutions. In this series, we’ll share the achievements and insights from some of the country’s top female scientists and learn from their experiences to understand how they came to be passionate about science and overcame any obstacles in their paths. This podcast is offered by West Virginia University’s Office of Research and Graduate Education.
Welcome to West Virginia University's Women in Science and Medicine podcast brought to you by the Health Sciences Center's Office of Research and Graduate Education. We talk to women with careers in these fields, gaining their insight into what it's like operating in roles that are still mostly dominated by men.
I'm your host, Mallory Weaver, and today I'm excited to say that my guest is one of our very own, a graduate of the WVU HSC Biomedical Sciences graduate program. Dr. Savannah Sims, Senior Associate for Global Health Research and Development Advocacy at Research America. Welcome, Dr. Sims, and I appreciate you joining the show with me today.
Thanks, Mallory. I'm happy to be here. Awesome. So can you first just give our listeners a brief overview about your education and your path that led to your role today? Absolutely. So thanks again for having me here. And yeah, I think my paths you know, will probably be pretty recognizable if anyone listening is from West Virginia.
So I... Great. Grew up in Fairmont, West Virginia, and like most West Virginians, I grew up having a lot of pride [00:01:00] in the state, and by extension, West Virginia University. So my parents were both first generation college students, and they were very proud of that. They both received master's from WVU, and so as a family, my whole life, we had a lot of pride in West Virginia and WVU.
And so, you know, because of West Virginia's generous scholarship offers attending WVU was an Obvious choice for me. You know, I was able to graduate college without student debt, which is almost unheard of. So, you know, it was a no brainer. And I'm so lucky that those scholarships existed because they set my path for my career and my life that I just really couldn't have imagined.
And so, you know, I. Graduated in 2016 from my undergrad at WVU with a BS in Immunology and Medical Microbiology, and then I stayed on at WVU because I, you know, was having such a good time, and got my PhD five years later in Immunology and Microbial Pathogenesis, which is part of the Biomedical Sciences.[00:02:00]
Umbrella program in 2021. And so after that, I pursued a postdoctoral research associate position at Washington University in St. Louis. So there I worked in the School of Neurology for a little while. And my whole time, the whole time that I had, at WVU, I was always interested in policy and advocacy, and it was something that I had been doing as part of student organizations and part of volunteer work throughout most of my academic career, and I had an opportunity to take on a fellowship in science policy, and so that's what led me to my current position at Research America.
So I Thank you. came on to Research America as a fellow and quickly transitioned into a permanent role there. And so, as you said, I work on our global health R& D advocacy team at Research America. And so, Research America is a non partisan, non profit advocacy alliance. And so, its overall goal is advancing medical progress and [00:03:00] accelerating the piece of scientific research in the United States.
And so, I work on our global health research and development team, and so a lot of my work focuses on talking to legislators and other members of the federal government about the good work that federal agencies like the National Institutes of Health or NIH funds at places like West Virginia University and every other state in the country.
And alongside that, we also work in partnership with other non profits to advocate for global health research because, you know, as we have all learned in the past few years, you know, we are not isolated in what happens in the rest of the world. And so we know that greater investment in global health research and development spurs faster medical progress for the individual as well as our Global community and enables breakthroughs for public health and, you know, helps our own national security and protects against future public health threats.
So that's, that's where I am now. That's absolutely wonderful. And I think your role is such an important one. I love to that. [00:04:00] You mentioned first generation college students. My sister and I are both first generation college students and our parents couldn't be more proud. And I think a state like West Virginia to you have a lot of that population and it's so fun to see families send their, their children off for that first, that first college experience.
Absolutely. It's so important. And you see, you know, like the legacy that you create, you know, because of my parents being first gen college students, what that opened up for me was. Something that, you know, I'm sure that their parents couldn't have even, even dreamed about, so it's, and I think they're, you know, it's important in West Virginia and a lot of other communities.
Absolutely, for sure. Can you pinpoint as a child or a young lady what first inspired you to really consider roles in STEM? We know. Or I, I certainly know from just some of the guests on this show, it's sort of hard sometimes to imagine young girls and women as, as they're growing up in Education and secondary school to really picture [00:05:00] themselves in STEM roles.
It's just sort of where our society is, as opposed to, you know, really encouraging men to pursue those roles. Right. Yeah. So, as nerdy as it sounds, you know, I don't think I have a pinpoint moment, but I've always been happiest when I was learning. And I should probably never admit this publicly, but when I was in elementary school, I cried when there were snow days.
I don't know. I, like I said, I shouldn't admit that. That's so nerdy. But I think I just have always loved kind of taking in information and being busy. And so I think the earliest example of this was I loved reading. And I know people think, okay, how does that relate to science? But if you know much about science, you're going to spend a lot of your time reading.
And so I think that that kind of shows that, you know, that early commitment to Thank you. learning to read, taking information, it's so important that you're learning about the world and synthesizing information. And, you know, as I got older, I really liked math. I liked the problem solving. I liked that there was, there were formulas and that there were, you know, it was, it was what kind of one of the first times I think you're forced to critically think in [00:06:00] education.
And so I think all of this combined, this kind of slowly turned into a passion for science over time. And, you know, it combined the problem solving I liked in math, I had to take in new information about the world and apply it to real challenges. And so, you know, and of course, too, along the way, what's really important to note is I think my interest in science was piqued by you know, there are a few standout teachers along my path, more science teachers.
And I think so many people have that moment. I mean, I, you know, for me, it's, Third grade in Mrs. Murray's science class, seventh grade in Mrs. DeWitt's science class, and, you know, my high school AP Chem teacher, Mrs. Jake was. And I think everybody, you know, I'm saying that that's my story, but everybody has those stories where, you know, some teacher made an impact on them and empowered them to say, hey, I think you can do this.
And so, you know, my progressive falling in love for science was, it took a, took a long time. It wasn't something that I ever knew I would do, but, you know, I realized I. I liked taking in [00:07:00] new information and solving problems and As I got older, I realized, you know, there are a lot of really real, hard, scary problems in the world that we need solutions to, and science is, is how you fix them.
And so I kind of got into science, you know, in college, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I started off as an engineering major because I was good at math, and that's, it seemed like something. Hard and challenging to do. I did a couple internships and experiences in engineering and I didn't like that, but I also was working in a research lab and I thought that growing cells and looking at them under a microscope was the coolest thing I had ever done in my entire life.
You know, you could just have a little plastic ditch and there were living things in them. And so there was you know, I said, okay, I want to work in a lab. I love working in a lab. I love doing research. And so changed my major to a new program. And that is kind of my evolution to falling in love with science.
Sure. [00:08:00] I love that you highlight the educators along your path that really made an impact on you. I think the, their connectivity to students and how they can really influence the entire direction of a very young child's future career is so understated sometimes. I can, I can at least tie your nerdy moment.
I had my wisdom teeth extracted and not just pulled, two of them were cut out and I wanted to go to school the next day. And my mom was like, All about me loving school, but she said, I think you can sit out a day. One day, it's not going to please just, you know, just one day, just sit out one day.
That is, that is funny. That's pretty good. So you were a postdoc for long before you pivoted to your career in advocacy and policy. Can you share your interests? And you'd already touched on it some, but can you touch on your interest in this branch of science and why it's so important to you? Yeah, so. I think I got interested in advocacy and policy because I realized that there's a huge gap between the [00:09:00] revolutionary ideas that scientists have and the care that patients actually receive.
It takes a long time. I mean, I should have looked up these numbers, but I mean, from a, for a drug to get from The bench in a basic science lab to an actual patient, you know, it's working on the on the scale of of years to decades, you know, not not months to years. And so I kind of I was curious about why does it take so long?
And, you know, that problem is a hugely, extremely complicated problem that doesn't work. you know, requires coordination between a lot of stakeholders, you know, academia, hospitals, health care providers, for the private sector that, you know, I don't think any one of us is able to fix overnight, but that's kind of what got me interested.
I was like, why, why is it so hard? You know, there are so many good ideas. You see headlines about, oh, a new potential cancer drug, but people are still dying of cancer. My loved ones are still dying of cancer, and for instance, strokes. And, you know, if there [00:10:00] are so many good ideas, Why are our loved ones still dying?
And so that's kind of what I got interested in. And so at Dundee VU, I joined the science policy organization. So this is a student org of, you know, multiple, it's, undergrads, graduates, doesn't matter what major you're studying, you know, anybody who's interested in science policy, not really having any idea what it was, but I figured I could show up at a five o'clock meeting and try it out.
And so I realized through some of those experiences and what we did and, you know, some of those experiences that I'm talking about are, you know, communicating with legislators about the importance of education, about the importance of science. And I realized that I really loved translating field specific science.
Into meaningful conversations with both scientific and non scientific audiences. And so, you know, as. Both West Virginians know, you know, West Virginia is an area where there's low life expectancy and low federal [00:11:00] funding for scientific research, and people in West Virginia, rightfully so, don't feel like politics or science or healthcare work for them.
They feel like those systems work for them. Work made for them because, frankly, they weren't. And so, you know, my my experience growing up in West Virginia really made me passionate about increasing, you know, science and medical literacy among groups that have been historically excluded from the scientific process.
And so, you know, I want I got interested because I was interested in wanting to shape an equitable future for science and medicine to improve quality of life for, you know, people in all communities like West Virginia, like people across the globe. So that's, that's what got me interested. Yeah. I think something that very excellently Your passion is evident to be clear and it's commendable.
And I think, and we'll talk about COVID in a minute, but I think specifically MRNA technology is [00:12:00] a perfect example of what you're talking about in terms of not just the length of time to market, but also in terms of communicating to non scientists. So people had such vaccine hesitancy because they felt like it was available so quickly.
And what they didn't realize is that technology was being built upon decades earlier. But lots of money was funneled towards the effort all around the world. And that's what lifted it up. Right. Similar research that I'm familiar with is ALS research. I have a family member who has recently been diagnosed and that ice bucket challenge.
You know, we saw all that on the socials and I myself back then was guilty of being like, Oh, really? Another celebrity doing the ice bucket challenge, but that fundamentally boosted ALS research in such a, such a positive way. And diseases like that, that aren't cancer. You know, are typically underfunded because you don't have the amount of Americans and people around the world that are affected by it.
So it doesn't draw the research dollars. And so, Savannah, I just got, [00:13:00] I have to say, like, you're your path is it's important to me, even as someone who, as we've established is not a scientist, but that's the thing is, science isn't for. Scientists, you know, science is for everybody and the whole purpose is, you know, and I think, too, I mean, that example of just what shows is when we make something a priority, we can get things done.
Absolutely. That's so important. You know, we made COVID a priority. ALS, that challenge, you know, it, it raised the bar because people weren't talking about it. And I think that's what, that's what advocacy and policy is. Absolutely. Should in theory have the ability to do. I mean, you know, without getting into all the details.
It's that's what we, we hope to brace up so many conditions. And I know I work with a lot of patient organizations and there are, you know, there are people that, you know, they have children that are that have these life altering conditions and only only 8 people. In the country have this condition. So how do you raise the bar?
How do you make those investments? And, you [00:14:00] know, it's, it's so important. And I think that another point with advocacy that scientists I didn't really think about for a long time when I was a scientist that we sometimes forget is that as a basic scientist most of your science is funded by taxpayer dollars.
So, you know, the National Institutes of Health is a, is a public federal agency, right? And so, you know, When I thought about it in that context, I found that as a scientist, it is almost an obligation to me that the science should be serving the people who are, you and me, everybody who pays taxes. Yeah. We should be.
We should be caring about the research that they care about. We should be doing important science. We should be doing good, rigorous science, and we should be communicating that, and, you know, because it's not done until, you know, your research isn't done when your experiment's over. It's done when, when it's helping someone, and when it's in the wild.
Yeah. So we touched on COVID briefly, and I, I think I know the answer to this [00:15:00] because most of us do. Do you think COVID, has COVID in particular affected STEM advocacy, if at all? Yeah, I mean, I think as we've already discussed, it is, it's hugely impacted this in the entire environment of advocacy.
And so I think if I'm being reflective, I think the COVID 19 pandemic urged me personally to make science policy and advocacy my full time career. That was one of those things that, you know, I, I couldn't decide whether, you know, this was a hobby, whether it was something I did as volunteer work, or whether it was something that I was going to make my career.
And I think that, you know, yeah. During the pandemic, it made me reflect and realize that, you know, I think if I have these interests, then this is maybe something I should pursue. And so, and, you know, seeing how important it was. And I think during the COVID 19 pandemic, you know, for the first time, everyone in the world had a front row seat to watching the scientific process unfold in real time and examine it under a microscope for you.
Lack of better analogy. Sure. Yes. [00:16:00] J1. So, you know, and as a scientist, I know that science is a process. It's. It's iterative and sometimes that process is a little messy, and for people that aren't scientists we are used to seeing science as a final product, so, you know, it's this drug, it's some invention, it's our latest iPhone, you know, it's a, it's something that's finished, but science is a living process, and so, you know.
We think that we think about these breakthroughs, but we don't think about the fact that science is iterative and that science is always changing. And frankly, scientists haven't done a good job communicating that and historically, they haven't, they've, you know, science is gatekept a little bit to the scientific community.
And so, you know, most of the public has been excluded from the process of science. And so the obvious Disconnect between scientists, health care providers, non scientists was kind of cracked open during the COVID 19 [00:17:00] pandemic and, you know, we saw that the public wants transparency between regulatory bodies, between scientists, between health care providers, between policy makers and public health specialists and Of course they do.
They deserve, everyone deserves transparency. And so, you know, luckily we had so many incredible scientists, healthcare professionals, doctors, you know, people in the pharmaceutical sector that were working hard at incredible paces to accelerate these technologies like the mRNA technology that, you know, have been publicly funded.
For for decades, and, you know, there are people that were experts in Corona viruses, right? And thank goodness we had those. And that just underscores the whole point of, you know, we shouldn't wait until we have some crisis to start talking about science. We could have been talking about M. R. N. A. And Corona viruses for years, but but no one.
No one was. And, you know, at the same time, of course, there was disinformation being spread. But this just shows that all scientists, in [00:18:00] my opinion have a place in sectors outside of science. So, you know, scientists should be in journalism. They should be in policy. They should be in the media. They should be communicating.
You know, this is everybody kind of has their role to play as a scientist. And you know, I hope that on the positive side of the COVID pandemic, that it will encourage. scientists to be more open and to kind of break down some of the silos between sectors and, you know, I think scientists should use it as, as inspiration to see how they can make a difference outside of the lab, even if they're working in a lab, even if that's your job, you can still talk about your science and communicate it.
Sure. Excited to have you on the show for so many reasons, but that is certainly one of them. I can tell on one hand, you are a communicator, which is my trade by degree, but also a scientist. And I do think those, you know, those 2 things need to bridge more often. And, you know, what you've just talked about too rolls over to my next question [00:19:00] really well.
Our office, by virtue of our one foot in the research camp and one in the graduate education camp, we hear a lot from our students that they want content around non academic careers. They want to know what's out there that's not necessarily academic. You briefly were a post doc, but now you've pivoted to what would be considered non academic.
Can you speak to the pros and cons of an academic career versus... A non academic one. Absolutely. And I want to put out in front that there are pros and cons to every job. Absolutely. Everybody is in a different personal place and has different priorities in life. So, you know, it's hard to give pros and cons.
And another thing I want to put at the top that I might be answering a slightly different question, but this is something that I didn't realize when I was in graduate school is that for current students, graduate students in academia, academia, is the alternative career. More PhDs go into careers that are not as what I used to think was the [00:20:00] traditional academic path.
And so, you know, and what I'm, if I'm saying traditional academic path, I'm defining that as a professor who either primarily teaches or does research. And so the National Science Foundation and the American Association for the Advancement of Science has a lot of really good data on What PhDs in science are doing and I was surprised that I think it's, you know, it's been years now that a lot of scientists are working outside of the traditional academic.
Route and I you know, I truly I got a phd because I thought I wanted to be a professor and I don't think that there's one job that is Destined for you, you know, some people have that I never had that, you know I think that I could add value and be happy in a multitude of jobs And I think that you know, there have been natural ship shifts in the job market but frankly some people are leaving academia because it doesn't offer As good of benefits as they're seeing and by benefits, I mean, pay work life balance, things like that.
And so not that those things [00:21:00] can't exist in academia, but, you know, to be completely open. I, if I was still a postdoc, I would be making less money and I would be. Working longer hours. I would be working in a lab where, you know, I have more flexibility in my job now and that's working for me right now.
And that was a priority. You know, I'm a new mom. I have a 14 month old kid and it's these things hold more weight than they did when I was in graduate school. I mean, I once again back to the nerdy thing. I didn't mind getting up at 7 in the morning on a Saturday morning and going to check on my cells and my mice when I was in grad school because I was in a different school.
I was in a different life stage. I had different priorities and I thought that, and I still think that, you know, the opportunity to learn and get an education and get a Ph. D. is was a privilege of my life and I loved getting to be able to go play with my cells every day. So, you know, I think that for everybody, that calculus of what's important is [00:22:00] completely different.
I love that I get to challenge my brain in a different way every day. I'm not performing experiments, but I am, you know, it's really hard to walk into a Congressional office with one of the staffer and think of, okay, this person cares about agriculture and the Midwest. How, and, and there, you know, there are farmers losing jobs.
How on earth am I going to tell them that the number one priority? that they need to be funding for the government, which, as we know, there are a lot of problems that the government needs, you know, that the government is tasked with solving. Sure. That medical research is the number one thing or, you know, this disease and, you know, figuring out, it's just a completely different way to use my brain.
But I also love that the, the network that it's opened up and just, you know, because I've been in academia, I've been outside of academia, I've learned, I've gotten to learn from such a wide variety of, of individuals. And so, you know, [00:23:00] I think that you have to choose the job that's right for you. And that calculus is going to be different for, for every person.
And Yeah, I think there are pros and cons. I miss, I miss myself some days. I miss working in the, you know, my favorite thing about being a scientist, I think, is that like, you know, when you're doing an experiment, there's a little amount of time that you're the only person in the world that knows this tiny little minuscule narrow secret.
About how the world works and that's so cool. And that's such a full responsibility to have. And I, I don't have that anymore, but I also it's, you know, when I'm thinking about impact and how I thought about it was, you know, as a scientist, I could have a narrow, but deep impact. So, you know, I wasn't.
I would have a deep, meaningful impact on my field of science, on the protein I was studying, and I would have a big impact on the students I was mentoring. Where now, it's kind of the opposite. I have a very wide, but [00:24:00] more shallow impact. And, you know, neither of those are, are right or better, but it's just different.
And I kind of like casting my net wider. And that's, I decided that. That felt like a new challenge to me, and I'm I'm happy, so it's a great lesson and in constantly experimenting with yourself or what you like and what you don't what makes your brain tick and what doesn't and how and to how that can evolve over time.
And that's okay, right? Yeah, absolutely. What aspects can you think of of our biomedical sciences graduate program here at WVU that you found most valuable in preparing you for your career in research? You mentioned, you know, an opportunity to even participate as early on back then in science advocacy group.
I wondered if there were any other aspects of the program that you really found valuable. Absolutely. So, you know, as I mentioned, I had a person, I've always had this personal connection to WVU. So, you know, having the opportunity to do research that [00:25:00] impacted and served the university of my home community was, was incredible.
And I, I loved that and I wouldn't trade that. I also just felt at home at the HSC, you know, and so, and that feeling was transformative both personally and professionally for me. And so I had incredible mentors. That's the number one thing. And I, you know, I, when I talk to people that are starting graduate school, I would say, you know, you need to.
Find good mentors. That's that's so important. You have to and you know, I had mentorship that I You know, they were always there for me, but they also gave me room to explore and I think that's so important I also had intellectual safety at wvu. So i'm and by that I mean You know, I can learn from people but I also have the freedom to ask questions and I knew that asking questions was okay.
And I knew that I could explore my own ideas. And I mean that both in [00:26:00] the science field as well, and as well as, you know, for example, I, I participated in the science policy organization. That's a great example of something that, you know, my, my mentor Didn't have any experience or interest in and didn't really understand, but I said, Hey, this is a priority to me.
And he said, okay, you have fun. I can't really help you with that. You know, I, because his, he's an academic, right? So his network, it's just a different network than the one that I was looking for, but he was supportive and that kind of mentorship is so important and, you know, just being able to you know, I was in the micro department and so you know, if I needed help on anything, I could walk down the hall and I could wave hello or yell and ask a question and people were always there to help me.
And I think that too is just, you know, knowing that I could always ask for help and it was there is the number one most important thing and was so valuable. [00:27:00] Certainly the psychological safety to know that you can ask questions is really important to someone who is a learner type. If you're familiar with the CliftonStrengths learner is in my top five input is also in my top five.
And so you recognize in yourself that need absolute need to. Continuously learn new things and grow and also not sort of feel weird for it. But exactly. Yeah. So during your time here, you were quite an active presenter as a graduate student with more than 25 said presentations during your time here.
How important do you think it is for students to be that engaged with the scientific community early on and really put themselves out there? Or is it more specific to the outcomes that particular graduate student is seeking, say, non academic versus academic? I think both is the answer, and it's all important.
So I was lucky enough to have, you know, support from, you know, my mentor, and opportunity to do a lot of presenting early in my scientific career. And the reason I had so many opportunities [00:28:00] was essentially because I asked. And I know that that's something that feels kind of awkward and I, you know, there was, there were a lot of times where I said, Hey Dr.
Mears, should I present this or should I present at this conference or, Hey, I want to go to this conference. And for some reason he never told me no, you know, and which once again goes back to the mentorship. But, you know, I think that another, another tip for me personally that worked was if I wanted to go to a conference or something, I always had something prepared before I asked.
So, you know, if I wanted to go to a conference, I would say, Hey, here's What I could present your elevator pitch Yeah, and here's what I could do between now and then I could get these data, you know I could complete these experiments by march when the conference is and that would help complete my story And so, you know when you have kind of that going in then it doesn't just sound like an empty an empty ask and so it kind of goes along with my general [00:29:00] workplace advice of you know, don't complain about something unless you have a Have a solution or an idea.
And advice. And maybe in life, too. But yeah, presenting and doing this was such a helpful experience, and so I would encourage everybody to take advantage of all of these opportunities, and so, you know, even if you will only have a little bit of data to present, that goes back to, you know, you're the only one in the world that has that data right now, so that's value, and that's important, and you get feedback, and, you know, presenting forces you to get organized.
That's, I mean, you know, maybe that's why I like two so much, because It gave me a discrete deadline and I got my stuff together. It might have been at 2 a. m. the night before, but you know, I was, I was you know, it forces you to be organized. And whenever you communicate something, you have to really know it.
And so it's a challenge to yourself and You know, and also the network it builds you, and it's, it's a constructive challenge, and by the end of it, presenting just becomes second nature, and so by the time you get to, say, the end of your PhD or the conference and your postdoc, it's, it's not something that's scary, and there's enough scary things in life that I need to make as many things [00:30:00] not scary as possible.
Sure. It's a solid confidence builder over time. For sure. Yeah, in a similar vein. And you mentioned networking. It's crucial to any professional field. We know that. And I would actually think in your field specifically because you have to communicate advocacy to legislators. Yes, even more important.
How have you utilized your networking skills to foster collaboration and advance your career goals? Sure. So honestly, I wish I was as comfortable networking as I am presenting. Interesting. Yeah, it's you know, putting myself out there has always felt awkward and, you know, it's, I think that that's something important to acknowledge 'cause everyone else tells you that.
Okay, it's, you have to put yourself out there. But you know, those feelings are real. And I know that for me personally you know, I always have to give myself the pep talk of, okay, well the worst that can say is no. Or the worst that can happen is they don't respond. Or the worst that can happen is, and in the same exact place as I was.
Before I tried this. And so, you know, all this [00:31:00] aside, I think just the track, the, my personal track record of networking being transformational at every step of my career. Teaches you that how important it is and you don't even know when those relationships will pay off. You know, I got my first research job as a freshman in college because I introduced myself to a professor professor And I kind of said hey, I like science.
I don't really know what research is, but i'm willing to try it out and she's wonderful and Let me work in her lab and figure out what that was. I mean, I my phd advisor. Dr. Mears. I you know, I Met him for the first time because I sent him an email and I said, I might like brains. Can you tell me about your side?
and You know at Research America I first learned more about my company because I was searching on LinkedIn for PhDs that had careers in policy and I sent a cold message to my now colleague Sophia and I said, hey Do you have 20 minutes to to chat? I'd love to learn about your career and [00:32:00] Now we're colleagues and she's fantastic.
I mean, you know, I get, I work with her every day. And so once again, it's kind of the more you do it, the more you realize. How important it is, and I think just my only advice is, you know, you know that you're not going to lose anything by putting yourself out there and everybody's so busy that the worst thing that can happen is they forget to respond, or they, you know, forget who you are, and that's, you're in no different of a place than you were beforehand.
I love that approach, but I also like that you acknowledge that, you know, those feelings of sort of awkwardness are there and it's just, we all probably have, most of us have them at least to some degree. And yeah, the sky doesn't fall if we don't get the exact result that we're looking for and you're generally no worse off as long as you conduct yourself professionally.
Exactly, exactly. So since I have an advocacy guru here, I wanted to ask you what. We normal folks can do besides we [00:33:00] know we have the power to vote as Americans. And so I, I would say as somebody who really values critical thinking to really research the people that you're voting for and know what their record is on things that are important to you, whether it be anything but even science related are there other things that you're just your average citizen can do to really boost advocacy?
Yeah, I have, I have a lot of thoughts on this as, as I'm sure you might expect. And as you mentioned, voting is such a crucially important tool to be your own advocate for science or for whatever you're advocating for. You mentioned this, which I'm so excited about, but you know, it's so important to be an informed voter from both the top to the bottom of your ballot.
And so, you know, often elections that we don't hear about, so our local city council, our local school boards, these may actually have, has bigger, bigger impacts on your day to day life than the presidential election that you see ads for every four seconds, right? And so, you know, to do this, [00:34:00] I, I now, I study my ballot, I research candidates.
Vote 411 is a nonpartisan resource that I like to use and you know, I I look at who's on my ballot and I And I think voter laws are different everywhere, but I take, you know, I, you can even sometimes like print out your fake ballot and take it in with you to make sure that you're voting for the correct people.
Because I mean, you know, sometimes with these local elections, you know, when you've got president down to school counts school board. You know, you're voting for dozens of people. It's just so hard to keep track. And so I think putting in that homework is something that really isn't a heavy lift, but it's important.
And so, you know, in addition to voting, speaking of things that are low, light lifts I think that all scientists can and should be their own STEM advocates. So, you know, in my opinion, advocacy, starts by talking about science or whatever issue you care about in your own community. And so, you know, for example, I'm a West Virginian.
And so, you know, for fellow West Virginians, you [00:35:00] know, if you identify as being from a community that has been historically excluded from science most people know that most people in your community probably don't know many scientists. And so you might be the only scientist that they have Ever known, and I think that that's a huge opportunity and responsibility.
And so, the first step in having people trust science is for them to trust scientists. And so, you know, that starts with all scientists. And, you know, you have that opportunity to be the voice of science for your own community by making these personal connections, by being empathetic. You know, and this can start by Practicing explaining your science to your relatives.
And I know that sounds cliche, but you know, as scientists, we joke that, oh, it's, you know, my parents or my grandparents have no idea what I do. And I've heard that a lot. Yeah. And I would say, but they could, I think they could, you know, and they don't need to know details of all of your experience, but I think you can change that.
And I think there's a way to get your point across. If [00:36:00] you really understand something, which you do, you're, you're the expert of your scientific Project and, you know, these are just small examples and it's almost like you can start with your own micro advocacy by just making these conversations commonplace.
And, you know, this is that's the low list slightly higher lift is getting involved in advocacy for professional organizations through student organizations. You know, I mentioned the WVU science policy organization, which is what I participated in at WVU. You know, and you can also reach out to you know, follow other advocacy organizations.
So I'm just speaking from experience. A lot of advocacy orgs do this, but, you know, like at my you know, if you are on our mailing list at Research America, we do things like we send out advocacy alerts where. If, you know, when funding the, you know, say the deadline for funding is coming up, we send out these a link that you click on, you put in your name and your zip code, and it automatically [00:37:00] populates a well crafted advocacy message and sends it off to your representatives.
Yeah. And it's done. It takes four seconds, you know, and so, you know, There are many organizations that do the legwork for you. So you're interested in an issue, you know, do a little bit of research and fault, you know, follow their lead and see what's important. I love that. That's, that's news to me. Yeah. So that's great.
Yeah. It's so easy. It's like, you know, people. That's what, you know, we, I try and think a lot about is, you know, how do people, how can we make people's lives easier? Right? Because this isn't everybody's full time job and it, it shouldn't be, you know, you should, we all are living busy lives. How do we make advocacy easier for people?
And there are definitely ways to do that. And you know, advocates are trying and yeah, I think there's, it's just only going to get better. And, you know, there are people on social media, et cetera. Yeah. But yeah, I think there's a lot of ways if you just do a little bit of looking that there, it's out there, and I know like FASB for other scientists, like other, you know, the American [00:38:00] Society for Microbiology, all of those organizations have their own you know, do a lot of advocacy, so by getting involved there is, is another option.
It's so it's so fascinating for me to watch you operate strategically with both your science hat on and also your communicator and even a little bit of a marketing hat. I can relate to that. And You're doing powerful things by wearing both of those hats, so I find that incredibly interesting.
Well, yeah, I, thank you. I, I hope so. Well, I only have one last question for you. I would like to ask you what advice you would give to young women interested in pursuing a career in science and medicine. I asked all my guests that last question, but for you, I'd tailor that to particularly from rural backgrounds.
You are a native of West Virginia. Yeah, I think this is my favorite question and so important. And so the first thing that I would tell women pursuing science or interested in science is that is that you belong there, you know, science and medicine are better by having your voice, even when it doesn't seem like [00:39:00] your voice is the one that.
Fits in, I would say, you know, don't be afraid to cold call and network with particularly other women from rural backgrounds or your background and, you know, whatever you identify with. And so, you know, more than likely, if they have any time to spare, they'd love to give back by lending you 15 minutes because, as you mentioned, in so many of these sectors, women are still underrepresented and more than likely they had a woman in their life that was transformative and being a mentor for them.
And so. I know that, you know, every, but every woman I know is willing to do that. I mean, I've never really had someone tell me no when I've done that. Yeah. And I think that's so important. And just to, you know, give that little push of, of awkward, you know, don't, don't worry about the awkwardness. It's fine.
And everybody wants you to succeed. You know, they're wanting people like you. And so I would also encourage women pursuing science to remember that. You know, being a scientist is an important part of who you are, but it isn't your [00:40:00] entire identity. And I think sometimes scientists tend to forget that.
And so, you know, women and, and scientists in general, you have so much worth that isn't. Tied into whether your experiment works, whether your grant gets funded, whether your paper gets published, and science is something that should add to your life, and it's not something that should cause you to give up anything, you know, caring about your hometown, caring about your loved ones, your hobbies, your other passions, those are just as important as your career as a scientist and your love for science.
And so, you know, not only is that important, but it you. Helps protect and prioritize your own mental and physical health, which is ultimately what matters. And you know, at the same time, I would also encourage women in science to, you know, do those things that scare you. So, you know, apply for the grant send an abstract into that conference.
Send that email, cold call that person on LinkedIn, do the experiment that you think might fail, tell your advisor about the potentially silly idea you [00:41:00] have, you know, apply for that job you think you're unqualified for because doing these things are really the things that ultimately create opportunities for the future you to succeed.
I love that. That's such a great message to young women and girls for sure. Well, that's a wrap. To our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please check out my other conversations with amazing female scientists anywhere you normally get your podcasts and please don't forget to rate and review. Dr.
Simms, it's truly been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me on the Women in Science and Medicine podcast today. Thank you. Thank you.