Ep 297: Recapping a record year for tribal gaming

Today’s episode of iGaming Daily is very much a game of two halves. 

In the first half, Joe Streeter, Editor of CasinoBeats and SlotBeats, is joined by Kelli Weaver, VP of Relationships - North America at SBC, to discuss figures released by the National Indian Gaming Commission that revealed tribal gaming operators generated a record $41 billion gross gaming revenue in 2023.

Kelli also talks about the importance of Tribal operators adapting to new technology and player behaviour post the COVID-19 pandemic.

After the break, Lucía Mouriño, VP of Relationships - LatAm, subs in to talk all things football.

As our resident Argentinian living in the US, Lucía gives her perspective on how Euro 2024 has been received in the US, England’s faltering campaign and Argentina’s more successful Copa America performances.

The pair also discuss the impact of Betano being a principal partner of Copa America in Brazil and discuss the level of sports betting advertising in the tournament despite the US’s strict advertising guidelines.

Host: Joe Streeter
Guests: Kelli Weaver & Lucía Mouriño
Producer: Anaya McDonald
Editor: James Ross

Remember to check out Optimove at https://hubs.la/Q02gLC5L0 or go to Optimove.com/sbc to get your first month free when buying the industry's leading customer-loyalty service.

Creators & Guests

Guest

Joe Streeter

Editor of Insider Sport and Payment Expert

Guest

Lou

Not José's niece. Head of B2B Media (LatAm)

What is iGaming Daily?

A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.

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Links will also be left in the podcast description.

as some really interesting football takes place. We're also going to touch on the Euros as well because it's been a really turbulent tournament. But to kick us off, Kelly, thanks ever so much for joining us. How are you? How is everything? Hey, thank you for having me. I'm very excited just coming off of the Canadian Gaming Summit where we saw increased numbers and such an exciting time there for operators.

It was, right? I wasn't lucky enough to be there, but how was the summit? It seemed like it went really well and there was a real buzz about Canada. There was. I work with several of the commercial operators, but also the First Nations. We had a record number of First Nations attend this year, which was very exciting. Seeing their interest in gaming...

and hopefully some new openings. Watch this space for sure. But for now, we're going to talk about figures from the National Indian Gaming Commission. They revealed a record year for gross gaming revenue from tribal gaming. Just how much of a testament is this to the sector? Yes. Last week, they reported the gross gaming revenue for fiscal year 2023 was $41 billion. That is massive.

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They reported that it's an increase of 2 .4 % over the previous year. With such record numbers, we look at what this is doing for the tribal gaming sector. It shows that tribes are contenders in the gaming industry. We're experiencing year -over -year continued growth. We're an economic powerhouse providing jobs, not just for our own tribal membership, but for the surrounding communities, as well as infrastructure.

community, you know, services, policing services, roadways, things that we're doing, like I said, off of our own lands and out into the community. And it also shows that we're resilient. You know, it seems that we, from the time that we entered gaming, we had to prove ourselves. And with a number, you know, like 41 billion, it shows that we are here and we are definitely a

a powerhouse in the industry and we're here to stay. So I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, 100%. It's far more than contenders. You know, heavyweights in this industry now and it's really good to see. And do you believe the continued growth of the sector and the fact that tribal gaming continues to thrive really speaks to the importance of the strong regulatory framework and the diversity of tribal gaming as well?

I do. I think that when we go back to the early days when Tribal Gate, when Tribes were permitted to start having gaming, the federal government put in place all of these requirements that we must adhere to. So then they had to create the National Indian Gaming Commission to have someone oversee those guidelines. So then the Tribes created their own Tribal Gaming Commissions.

to ensure that we were in compliance with those federal requirements. And in doing so, it has allowed us to look at contracts, agreements that we enter into, to look at the types of technology or software that's coming into place into our gaming facilities. It also has allowed us to work together a bit more closely with the operations side.

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It has kind of forced operators, and I say operators, the tribal operators, so the casinos themselves, to work with the gaming commissions, to work with every department actually, to ensure that we continue to see this growth. It's all in an effort, again, to maintain that compliance with NIGC. I don't want to say that we want a lot of compliance because we don't, but at the same time, it has been good.

I think it's created definitely a safety net for us. Yeah, that's an important point. And it's very valid that you touch on the tech as well. We've seen iGaming and casinos and just gaming in general across North America grow at such a rapid rate. How crucial has the ability of tribal gaming to adapt to new technologies been when it comes to ensuring their growth and enabling them to continue to grow and to thrive?

be the heavyweight that they are in this sector? You know, I think when we look back at, and I hate to mention COVID, it just keeps popping up. But when we look at the technology that we began to become more comfortable with during COVID, technology was there. We just really hadn't used it as much or utilized it as much as we could have been. I remember my first Zoom call and how nervous I was.

and thinking everyone can see me on camera. And it was just, you know, it was a different way. And so now when I travel, you know, I said I went to Canada, you know, I have a digital wallet on my phone. My boarding pass is on my phone. I just, you know, tap my phone or my watch and I pay for something. We, you know, I do online grocery order pickups. Everything has become technology based.

When I talk about SBC a lot of times, I explain to people, we are a technology conference. They always want to know, because we're bringing all this technology into the space. And so I think it's been really important for casinos, tribal, well, casinos across the board, really just that's the new world that we live in. And so for tribal gaming, may not have had.

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as anyone did, had rules for how we would utilize this technology. And so we really had to review that and make sure that we were doing it in a safe way. You look at cybersecurity and things that have emerged from that even. You know, we're onto the next phase, past the digital phase in technology. Now we're looking at how do we protect the data, you know, and I think we just continue. We're not going to see the end of it.

you know, it's just going to continue to advance. And I think it helps us grow. I think that's what people expect when, really, when they do anything. They expect to be using an app somehow and to have technology at their fingertips. Well, that is it. Exactly. And that brings me on to my next question, to be honest, because, you know, off the back of COVID and as technology continues to evolve, consumer preferences and, you know, player preferences, let's say.

really do change. What have tribal operators done, apart from the points that you've already made, to be honest, apart from the points that you've already made, what have tribal operators done to accommodate the new landscape and the new needs and desires of consumers? I will say, and I don't know that everyone will agree with me, but I will say this. We do love technology, but tribal casinos, all casinos really, are still very focused on the land -based portion.

I think having, you know, everyone likes to go in and play slot machines or table games. And that does get to a little bit to where maybe some iGaming comes in to play, where you can do some of that on your phone. But it's to be rewarded once you get into the brick and mortar. You know, we still, we have these amazing facilities, resorts, you know, that you can go to. You can go in for a spa day. You can go into a five -star restaurant.

I can go in and host an event at a tribal casino, a conference. We can go in and play Topgolf in a bay. So they really have expanded the entertainment side. You can go see a concert. There are breweries. So really, we expanded upon those amenities as well during COVID.

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to engage people, to the patrons, to continue coming in to the casino. But at the same time, you know, sports betting came into play and iGaming in a few states. And so, you know, I think it's a good mix and it brings in different age groups, a diverse group of people to come in. It's almost there's more of something for everyone now versus before.

Yeah, it becomes an experience for everyone going, right? Not just about, you're not just going there to play games. It becomes part of the whole experience. And, you know, we are running close to the end of time, but I did want to give you an opportunity to maybe pay homage to some of the states that have got it right, because there will be others listening that will be thinking, how can we really tap into this? So are there any states that you believe have really got it right when it comes to

Kind of the relationship between commercial operators and tribe operators and also just the regulatory frameworks as well. I will say when we were at North America, we had a panel on Michigan. Michigan is one of the few states that has both iGaming and sports betting. And they have seen a lift in their GGR at the gaming facility itself, even though they're offering iGaming.

even though they're offering sports betting. And so I would look to Michigan and have conversations with those operators and look at what they've done to continue their increasingly successful growth. Amazing. Kelly, thank you ever so much for your time and congratulations on a really strong period for Tribal Gaming. It's been great to see and...

sure to continue to thrive as well. And we go to a quick ad break now and then we are joined by the for the second half by Lou Marino and we're going to talk football and or talk soccer, I should say, and talk about the copper America. Thank you ever so much, Kelly. I really appreciate your time today. Thank you. Welcome to the second half of today's iGaming Daily. And unlike Gareth Southgate, we are making a halftime substitution.

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After a stellar performance from Kelly Weaver in the first half of the episode, we have brought on our very own super sub, Lucia Mourinho, to talk about the Copa America and all things international football. Lu, how are you doing? You seem very happy and understandably because Argentina really are cooking. The world champions are really cooking in the Copa America. Yeah, I'm very excited, first of all, to be here with you guys. It's been a while.

And yeah, I'm really glad that there is someone out there making changes at the halftime because you said it yourself. I mean, I guess we're going to talk about England in a little bit, but yeah, changes are needed sometimes. They truly are. And the copper is going on at the same time. And we're going to talk about that. But what's engagement been like? You're based in the US. What's engagement been like there for the euros? Has there been much fandom? Have people been tuning in?

Yeah, I think it has to do with the fact that the next World Cup would be played here and as well Mexico and Canada. But there is a lot of push right now around football, what they call soccer. It's football. There is a lot of excitement. So they're really pushing this on like Fox Sports, ESPN, channels that would normally air something different other than football.

And like I've seen on social media as well, they all say this is the best Euros that we've watched in a long time. I don't know what long time means for them. They don't really care that much about football. Obviously this is changing now, but they all agree that the level that they're seeing right now, it's something that like it's surprising in a good way. Yeah, that is good. And I mean, I was, we were speaking before a little bit about, you know, how I've enjoyed the tournament and it's been

kind of been two tournaments. There's been the England perspective, which has been, yeah, not very fun. But aside from that, the football at the tournament has been fantastic. You raised an interesting point actually about the broadcasters, the broadcasters really getting involved and some of the bigger broadcasters picking it up in the US. In the UK, the copper has been on Premier Sports and it's behind a subscription, behind a note like

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new subscription. They don't carry any other major rights really. I think they have the Scottish Cup and La Liga, which obviously is not being played right now. That's been a real challenge here. Obviously, the kickoff times are swell and tough. It's late, but I don't think that would have put people off if it was on a mainstream broadcaster. Yeah, that's tricky. It's been really tricky. There's not been the engagement in the copper that perhaps would have been anticipated from

from UK fans, but that might change now we get to the knockouts because we've got some really spicy games, right? Yeah. And I guess that it's the same in France and that's why probably Mbappe said that the level in South America is not the same as the level in Europe. He probably can watch the games, which is why he probably said that. So yeah. Yeah. He's not really had the best tournament either so far Mbappe, but yeah. And the...

Obviously it's being played in the US as well, the Copa, but the US went out in the group stage. How has that led to fans being a bit deflated off the back of that or is there still this excitement around the tournament? Well, I mean, they're pretty pissed off right now. They want US soccer to fire the head coach rightfully so. There's actually a screenshot that someone took about it.

around the game and it's the head coach telling the players that Panama had equalized in the other game, meaning that the US was gonna make it out of the group stage. Like that happened in the middle of the match instead of focusing on the game that they were playing and they were thinking about the other game. And like a few minutes later, Uruguay scored. Like they are really angry about that. Like that is not the right mentality. You should be competing against better teams because like if you keep competing against

against Canada, Mexico, Panama, Guatemala. That level is not good enough to be competing against South American teams, let alone European teams. So they're pretty focused on that subject at the moment. They're demanding the federation to do better. But yeah, I think there's been record number of attendees in this stadium, so the excitement is there.

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but they're pretty upset at the moment, rightfully so. Obviously, the tournament is a big platform in Brazil amongst Brazilians. We know just how passionate Brazilians are about football. Also Canada as well, probably less so, well, definitely less so, but definitely in Canada, there's going to be eyes on the football. Betano, the principal partner, as these two markets are just so engaged with the tournament.

How big can it be for them advertising at this tournament and having that principle partnership? It can be huge. It's not only about them being in Brazil and being one of the biggest operators in Brazil now and in the future. It's about other countries as well. They recently launched in the province of Buenos Aires and that is one of the biggest markets in Latam in general.

But one thing that I wanted to discuss was the amount of betting companies that are being advertised during the Copa America. Obviously, Betano is all over the pitch, like we can see it. But this to me is very surprising, even though it is a comfortable organized tournament. It's something that I have never seen before. And let me explain why. We all know that the tournament is being played in the US, which is pretty strict when it comes to regulation, advertising, sponsorships.

And I can tell you from a conversation a few months ago that I had with a senior member of football association in South America that at the time, because they were going to play in the US, they couldn't sign sponsorship deals with unlicensed operators or gambling companies if they weren't regulated slash licensed in the US. Like they actually had to decline these deals because of the US regulations.

And now you watch a game and you can see all these betting companies that are huge in LASM but that have no presence in the US. Like it's crazy in a good way how much it has evolved. And to me, this is probably because of the 2026 World Cup. We all know that FIFA actually has like the rights to sell these sponsorship packages. But in order to qualify, you need to meet certain requirements. But yeah, it's like to me, it's very interesting to see that.

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they allow this while playing in the US. And again, I think it has to do with the fact that they share the tournament with two other countries and they have different regulations and they probably want to increase what they get from these sponsorship packages by allowing these kind of deals. That's really interesting. It's not something we're going to see replicated for the World Cup because of FIFA and because of... Right, it will be a bit more focused for the World Cup.

Yeah, I think so. This is obviously a comfortable tournament, but because we have ConcaGav teams, there is a great area. But yeah, more much focused for the workout. That's incredibly interesting. Has there been any backlash about the amount of sponsors or has it been met okay? Has it been all right? Not in the US. I haven't seen that. There is a lot of discussion in Argentina at the moment about the amount of

advertising that there is around sports betting, especially in Buenos Aires, in the city of Buenos Aires. Like they recently said that they're not going to give any more licenses in the city because of like how the companies are targeting and I quote like young people. I personally don't think that's the right path to go. Like if you want to

make sure that they're not exposed to that unregulated, make sure that you have the right to do something about it. Prohibiting stuff never works well, especially in a market where everything is growing at the moment. For Argentina, that is a really big discussion. But in the US, I haven't seen much about advertising. I think it has to do with

them knowing that in the future it is coming, that they need to prepare for all these things that happen outside of the US that they cannot control. Interesting. It sets up interesting times for the upcoming World Cup as well. I obviously can't let you leave without picking your four finalists, I guess, for both tournaments. I can't let you just pick a winner because I know what you're going to say. You're going to pick the world champions. But who's going to be the finalists?

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And the euros, what you got for me? That's going to be a bit more complicated. For Copa America, I would say Argentina and Uruguay. You think Uruguay beat Brazil? Interesting. They're doing really well. They're doing good, yeah. I wouldn't bet on it, but they're doing really well. And God, I don't know about the euro. I'm going to say England because I feel like I was pretty harsh to Harry Kane. Get some brownie points back. If you meet Harry Kane or Gareth Southgate, you can...

save them with that. And France is on the other side, right? France is on the other side. I'm going to say France, just because they're very lucky. And they could come in second, just like in the World Cup. I mean, England on the good side of the draw, they can get over the line, I think. And I don't know, maybe Holland will beat England in a semi -final or even Turkey. Well, I mean, Holland is not what it was. No.

You have a good shot, I think. I think so. As long as we improve. But I'll take Turkey in the final against Germany. A Turkey -Germany final will be quite a good encounter. And I echo your thoughts, actually. I think Uruguay can do the business against Brazil and then maybe even go on and beat Argentina in the final and we can have a non -Argentina Brazil winner. It'd be a big upset. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks ever so much, Lou. I appreciate you taking time out from pretending to work and watching football and yeah. And we'll catch up next week as well and hopefully look ahead to the finals involving England and Argentina in separate finals. Hopefully fingers crossed. Thank you, Lou. I appreciate it.