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It's the 20th of December, and the holidays are right around the corner. You might already be having yours, and if so, enjoy. Recording this episode we decided to make it into a special one. We look back at the waning year - and we look forward to the new one. What will be on in-house legal's plate next year? And what was on the plate in 2022? Join host Stine and producer Daniel as they discuss learnings and lessons from the previous year. Happy holidays and happy New Year from all of us - see you in the next one.
Join host Stine Mangor Tornmark as she journeys through the in-house legal landscape of today.
With influential GCs, top C-level executives and other fascinating guests, Inspiring Legal is your weekly dose of everything legal, career and life-lessons.
Don’t hesitate to pitch ideas, feedback etc. to hello@openli.com
Apply to become a community member at www.openli.com/community
[00:00 - 00:09]: Welcome to Inspiring Legal, the podcast for in-house legal.
[00:10 - 00:16]: Get insights, learn from peers, life lessons from some of the most influential GCs.
[00:16 - 00:19]: If it's related to in-house legal, we cover it.
[00:19 - 00:31]: For more inspiration, go to openli.com slash community.
[00:32 - 00:38]: Welcome to another special edition of the Inspiring Legal podcast.
[00:38 - 00:39]: It's Christmas time.
[00:39 - 00:43]: And so let's start by wishing each other.
[00:43 - 00:44]: Happy Christmas.
[00:44 - 00:49]: I hope you're all enjoying the season of hopefully snow.
[00:49 - 00:55]: If you are in the snowy locations, if not, well, I hope you're enjoying the sun.
[00:55 - 00:59]: Today I am joined by a very special guest.
[00:59 - 01:04]: He is the mind behind the podcast.
[01:04 - 01:14]: A big contribution and also content creator when it comes to the openli community.
[01:14 - 01:15]: Welcome Daniel.
[01:15 - 01:16]: Thanks, Stine.
[01:16 - 01:17]: Wow.
[01:17 - 01:18]: Thanks for the nice words.
[01:18 - 01:19]: Very happy to be here.
[01:19 - 01:25]: So for those who don't know Daniel, well, you actually know him, but you don't really know him.
[01:25 - 01:31]: He's kind of like the special secret Santa that we have here at openli.
[01:31 - 01:35]: Daniel is heading up content and communications at openli.
[01:35 - 01:37]: So he's the producer.
[01:37 - 01:38]: Yeah.
[01:38 - 01:42]: Usually I am sitting behind the microphone, but you won't hear me.
[01:42 - 01:49]: But so for this special edition Christmas episode, we decided to spice up things a bit.
[01:49 - 01:51]: And so I've joined Stine.
[01:51 - 01:52]: I'm very happy to.
[01:52 - 01:58]: And yeah, today we're talking about something very close to Stine's heart.
[01:58 - 02:01]: I know and to my heart also.
[02:01 - 02:09]: How are legal teams working in the year that we are just currently exiting?
[02:09 - 02:14]: And what will those trends say for the year that we are looking forward to?
[02:14 - 02:15]: Yeah.
[02:15 - 02:18]: So as you all know, it's the season of giving back.
[02:18 - 02:21]: It's from all of us to all of you.
[02:21 - 02:25]: So if we look back at 2023, oh, sorry, two.
[02:25 - 02:28]: Jesus, I'm already jumping ahead.
[02:28 - 02:35]: So if you look back at this year, what we did is that we launched the openli community.
[02:35 - 02:40]: And based on your feedback, we launched the podcast.
[02:40 - 02:44]: We asked the community how many of you wanted a podcast.
[02:44 - 02:50]: And it was over 90% that said, this is something we really would like.
[02:50 - 02:57]: You also told us a lot about what your struggles are, what you're working on, what you're focusing on.
[02:57 - 03:04]: And that's why we built the survey where we talked with more than I don't know how many.
[03:04 - 03:07]: We're almost 600 in the community now.
[03:07 - 03:18]: Everybody working in-house legal, everybody really focusing on scaling, improving the way that they're working and also sharing what their struggles are.
[03:18 - 03:24]: And that's why we built the in-house legal community report that we shared with you a few weeks back.
[03:24 - 03:33]: But those who haven't had time to read the report, for those that aren't a part of the community, but listening to the podcast,
[03:33 - 03:44]: Daniel and I talked about what could we best do to give you a little Christmas present, but also give you the best possible start for the year.
[03:44 - 03:51]: So Daniel, you are, of course, a big part of building that report, getting those insights.
[03:51 - 03:58]: So I thought it'd be nice if you just kind of decide what we should be talking about and what we should be sharing.
[03:58 - 04:08]: Yeah. So basically, we went over the report and we thought, OK, so what will bring the most value to our very much valued listeners?
[04:08 - 04:16]: And basically, we have decided to go over the report with you right now, right here.
[04:16 - 04:20]: Yeah. So from all of us to all of you.
[04:20 - 04:26]: So, yeah, hope you will enjoy this.
[04:26 - 04:33]: We're going to skim the report, obviously, and you can go and sign up for the community and read the report.
[04:33 - 04:41]: But yeah, we hope you will get a lot of very valuable information out of this. We surely have.
[04:41 - 04:46]: So should we just dive into it? Yeah. Yeah, let's do so. All right.
[04:46 - 04:49]: So the first thing, do you want to take the first one? Yeah.
[04:49 - 04:55]: Yeah. So the first thing we started talking about with the community was very much about showing value.
[04:55 - 05:06]: Like Daniel and I know from many of you out there that legal is sometimes not able to showcase how they're supporting the business.
[05:06 - 05:11]: Like everybody knows how much value and how much work, but how do you showcase it?
[05:11 - 05:14]: So what about KPIs? How do you measure value?
[05:14 - 05:19]: So we started talking with the community about how they are measuring it. Are they even measuring it?
[05:19 - 05:32]: And what we found out is that 45 percent of the legal teams are working with KPIs, meaning 55 percent aren't.
[05:32 - 05:36]: And what's really interesting for a lot of people out there are, OK, so what are you measuring?
[05:36 - 05:47]: How are you tracking it? And we've been having some really interesting conversations with some of the biggest general tech companies where you're talking to general counsels from Sendesk.
[05:47 - 05:54]: We're talking with FITMA and so forth. And every time we're asking them, so how are you measuring value?
[05:54 - 06:00]: And what they're saying is it's very much about understanding the work.
[06:00 - 06:04]: It's about understanding the data. But how do you get data?
[06:04 - 06:11]: That's where the tricky part comes in. So some are having what you would call kind of like a ticket system.
[06:11 - 06:17]: So they are asking everybody who wants to get in contact with legal to file a ticket.
[06:17 - 06:29]: So when they file a ticket, it's they're measuring who's sending it, what teams they're measuring, how fast we're responding, what type of contract are reviewing.
[06:29 - 06:43]: So all of a sudden, they're able to see what departments are taking the most of the legal time or what departments are sending the most amount of contracts for review.
[06:43 - 06:48]: Others are using NPS scores and surveys. And what is an NPS score, Stine?
[06:48 - 06:56]: So an NPS score is kind of like a satisfaction score where you're often asked to measure between one to ten.
[06:56 - 07:00]: And where you're counting the most positive, you're counting the most negative.
[07:00 - 07:05]: And then you have kind of like this, let's call it the dead zone, where it doesn't really add in.
[07:05 - 07:10]: It's not negative and it's not positive. So that's also how some are doing it.
[07:10 - 07:16]: But what we found out that most people are doing are surveying.
[07:16 - 07:21]: They're going out and talking and asking, what do you think? Are you getting value?
[07:21 - 07:26]: Is there anything we can do better? Is there anything we're doing excellent?
[07:26 - 07:33]: So on that regard, they're trying to really try to get a sense of where they can improve and how they can work better.
[07:33 - 07:40]: And then we have the ones that are very much just focused on the ACV, so the average contract value.
[07:40 - 07:46]: And that's another way that some are measuring the value that they're delivering to the company.
[07:46 - 07:53]: So how much of the revenue generated sales are being supported by legal.
[07:53 - 08:02]: But I imagine it's difficult to measure the impact of legal's work in the total revenue, I guess.
[08:02 - 08:06]: Yeah, but also because legal are much more than just revenue.
[08:06 - 08:12]: And I think there is often the tendency to take a look at legal and then look at sales.
[08:12 - 08:21]: And totally agree that sales is a massive contributor when it comes to legal consumption of time.
[08:21 - 08:29]: But what is also super important to remember is that a business, it's much more than sales.
[08:29 - 08:33]: You're supporting management, you're supporting HR, you're supporting marketing.
[08:33 - 08:36]: But what you're also doing is mitigating risk.
[08:36 - 08:44]: True. And trust, how do you measure trust? I mean, and how that impacts the company in the bigger picture?
[08:44 - 08:51]: Yeah, good question. That's where we had Rob from Airbnb, former GC.
[08:51 - 08:55]: He's written the book on intentional integrity.
[08:55 - 09:08]: And he is a guy that knows all about working with ethics, working with trust and really leveraging the value that you can when you're doing so.
[09:08 - 09:15]: Yeah, he's a big spokesperson for trust and integrity in general.
[09:15 - 09:23]: So another thing we talk with the community about and what you can find in the report is legal operations.
[09:23 - 09:28]: It is kind of a buzzword. It's something that a lot of companies are talking about.
[09:28 - 09:33]: Some are starting to ingrain legal operations into their business.
[09:33 - 09:41]: It came out of the US. And what we can see is that 36 percent are looking at legal operations.
[09:41 - 09:48]: 63 percent still haven't really embedded legal operations into their business.
[09:48 - 09:54]: What I think is interesting is having a talk with the community about what is legal operations?
[09:54 - 09:59]: What does it mean for you? And it doesn't mean the same for everybody.
[09:59 - 10:15]: Interesting. Yeah, it is. And what's also super interesting is the fact that legal operations is something I think more people in house legal are actually working with, but they're calling it something else.
[10:15 - 10:19]: What could they call it? Well, some are calling it scaling.
[10:19 - 10:24]: Some are calling it working smarter. And that is what legal operations is about.
[10:24 - 10:30]: I went to a conference in London talking about legal operations because it was also something that's very close to my heart.
[10:30 - 10:39]: I think what is most close to me personally is thinking about making sure that legal works smarter.
[10:39 - 10:53]: In-house legal teams are filled with skilled, talented individuals that are able to do so much for the business at so much more value than just.
[10:53 - 11:03]: And I don't mean just but contract negotiations, closing deals, helping with marketing a consent.
[11:03 - 11:16]: Just as an example, legal are smart people. And if you're using all your time on admin tasks or all your time on contract negotiations.
[11:16 - 11:24]: You don't have time to show the business how much you have to offer.
[11:24 - 11:33]: And that's where for me personally, legal operations or thinking about scaling comes to play. Working smarter in general.
[11:33 - 11:38]: Working smarter and really leveraging the talent you have in the in-house legal team.
[11:38 - 11:43]: They are so smart people. You are smart people out there. And we all know that.
[11:43 - 11:57]: But the problem is we're overloaded with tasks. We are so busy supporting the business that it becomes very much just about keeping up with the pace.
[11:57 - 11:59]: Putting out fires.
[11:59 - 12:12]: Exactly. Instead of really looking at ways to support the business even better, smarter and developing the teams at the same time.
[12:12 - 12:20]: So that is another thing that we will probably see more of in the new year. More legal teams starting to work with legal operations.
[12:20 - 12:26]: Definitely.
[12:26 - 12:31]: So as we talked about sales, supporting sales.
[12:31 - 12:33]: They like legal.
[12:33 - 12:42]: Sometimes they also feel, I think, that legal can be kind of a showstopper.
[12:42 - 12:48]: So why can't we just accept uncapped limitation of liabilities and indemnifications? Come on.
[12:48 - 13:03]: Yeah. So what we also found out, and I think this doesn't come as a big surprise, but that sales is the department that is currently taking the most of legal teams' time and resources.
[13:03 - 13:09]: 73% said that sales and commercial are doing exactly that.
[13:09 - 13:10]: Wow.
[13:10 - 13:18]: But what's also surprising is that, let's call it frontrunners, were privacy and compliance.
[13:18 - 13:24]: So a lot of people are struggling also with the scaling and the amount of requests you're getting.
[13:24 - 13:29]: Sometimes, of course, those requests can also come from sales when it's related to privacy and GDPR.
[13:29 - 13:36]: And another thing was also focused on corporate matters.
[13:36 - 13:38]: Yeah.
[13:38 - 13:44]: So what we saw is that sales and commercial, a clear winner, if that's what we call it.
[13:44 - 13:48]: And second runner up were privacy and compliance.
[13:48 - 13:54]: And then came supporting with corporate matters and product tech and marketing.
[13:54 - 13:57]: Yeah. Basically new tools, I guess.
[13:57 - 14:00]: Exactly. Especially when we're talking about product and tech.
[14:00 - 14:02]: It's very much about buying tools.
[14:02 - 14:11]: And the same goes for marketing, but marketing was also about capturing consents, cookies, and pop-ups and banners and all that jazz.
[14:11 - 14:14]: Yeah. All that jazz.
[14:14 - 14:18]: All right. Next one. Using tools in legal.
[14:18 - 14:22]: So this is also something that obviously we care a lot about here.
[14:22 - 14:29]: And Stine just told how legal operations and working smarter is what we're also all about.
[14:29 - 14:40]: And some of the things that we saw when we undertook this survey in the community was that legal is using tools.
[14:40 - 14:47]: But at the same time, legal is probably not using the same amount of tools as a lot of other departments in the business.
[14:47 - 14:55]: Now, we can see that 47 percent are using a contract, some sort of contract management tool.
[14:55 - 15:01]: 84 percent are using an e-signing system.
[15:01 - 15:10]: And those are definitely like the front runners in tools, in legal teams today.
[15:10 - 15:14]: And then we have obviously Word. Not to forget.
[15:14 - 15:19]: Yeah. Exactly. The whole office pack.
[15:19 - 15:28]: Slack for in-house teams. 40 percent, more or less 40 percent are using some sort of privacy tool.
[15:28 - 15:32]: 10 percent are using a vendor management tool.
[15:32 - 15:41]: But it just goes to show that there is still quite a way to go, I'd say.
[15:41 - 15:50]: When you think about these numbers in legal teams, basically work smarter because a lot of stuff is still happening on spreadsheets.
[15:50 - 15:59]: And obviously, it's difficult to scale a legal team when you spend all your time manually plotting down in spreadsheets.
[15:59 - 16:07]: Yeah. I think what we also found out is that contract management systems is something that is on everybody's minds.
[16:07 - 16:14]: So even though there are already now a lot of companies or a lot of legal teams with a contract management system,
[16:14 - 16:23]: many of them are looking at what is out there, at least exploring what opportunities there are to working smarter.
[16:23 - 16:38]: And we've been told that this is a system that many are hoping to kind of like scale their entire legal operation.
[16:38 - 16:45]: What is in all honesty the case? There's not just one system out there.
[16:45 - 16:51]: Nobody in marketing is using one tool to run their entire marketing team.
[16:51 - 16:58]: Nobody in finance is using one tool to operate the entire finance team.
[16:58 - 17:05]: Here you're using an ERP system. You're using some kind of employee expense system.
[17:05 - 17:09]: You have different types of reporting tools.
[17:09 - 17:18]: So what we're seeing is that more and more tools are needed to really scale legal.
[17:18 - 17:27]: But what the majority of people are looking into at the moment is finding one system and getting that one up and running.
[17:27 - 17:34]: And from there on, then looking at ways of furthering the scaling of their team.
[17:34 - 17:41]: And unfortunately for all of us, that one size fits all tool just isn't here.
[17:41 - 17:53]: So when we're looking at the contract management systems, this is kind of like an area that we will be definitely looking more into in 2023.
[17:53 - 18:00]: We are not a contract management system. We don't have any kind of exclusive partnership with any contract management system.
[18:00 - 18:05]: So this, what I'm saying now is strictly based on what people are saying in the community.
[18:05 - 18:10]: It's not my personal views, but can you hear the disclaimer? It's perfect, right?
[18:10 - 18:15]: No. So what we're seeing is that a lot of people are using Ironclad.
[18:15 - 18:21]: They're using Jiro. They're using Precisely. They're using Contract Book.
[18:21 - 18:25]: But there are so many tools out there.
[18:25 - 18:28]: And these are all contract management tools?
[18:28 - 18:32]: Strictly contract management tools. And this is just scratching the surface.
[18:32 - 18:36]: Back to the conference I was in London a few weeks back.
[18:36 - 18:43]: There were 14 vendors there. I think nine or ten of them were contract management tools.
[18:43 - 18:44]: Yeah, it says a lot.
[18:44 - 18:50]: Yeah. So this is an area that is expanding. There are so many out there, but they're also very different.
[18:50 - 19:00]: So what we've been talking about is figuring out how to best support the people out there in their look for a new tool.
[19:00 - 19:13]: Again, we have no interest in this space as a company, but what I do think is super important is getting a tool that can help with that contract management lifecycle.
[19:13 - 19:17]: This is critical for every single legal team out there when you want to scale.
[19:17 - 19:21]: Because contracts is a part of the in-house legal team's work.
[19:21 - 19:26]: And that's not going away, but you can definitely make life easier.
[19:26 - 19:33]: You can work smarter and you can also get better leverage of the insights from those contracts.
[19:33 - 19:38]: If you have contract management systems, that's something we will be looking into in 2023.
[19:38 - 19:39]: Yeah.
[19:39 - 19:45]: What we've also talked about with the community is about what other tools are they using?
[19:45 - 19:53]: So a lot of people out there are still not using that many tools, but they're looking into what is out there.
[19:53 - 20:00]: So there are tools for productivity, there are tools for equity or warrants, as you might call it.
[20:00 - 20:03]: You have privacy tools, e-signing tools.
[20:03 - 20:12]: You have different types of, let's call it, other smart ways of communicating.
[20:12 - 20:15]: So the Slacks, the Teams, those types.
[20:15 - 20:20]: And this is an area that I think we should be exploiting and looking into more in 2023.
[20:20 - 20:26]: It's still a little bit uncertain as to what's the best ways and what's the best tools.
[20:26 - 20:29]: I think there are very shared opinions on Slack.
[20:29 - 20:30]: Yeah, definitely.
[20:30 - 20:35]: I was just about to say, because I know that a lot of people also feel like Slack is a blessing and a curse.
[20:35 - 20:36]: Exactly.
[20:36 - 20:45]: And we've been talking to people that hate Slack and find it to be a super big stress factor.
[20:45 - 20:54]: There are others that are asking for every type of request to legal go through Slack and optimizing that process.
[20:54 - 20:57]: So there are, I think, opportunities for improvements.
[20:57 - 21:03]: And that is what we will be looking to explore in 2023 and sharing it.
[21:03 - 21:08]: And I think it also shows how different teams work in different ways.
[21:08 - 21:14]: I mean, it's all about processes and the processes you set in place.
[21:14 - 21:15]: Okay.
[21:15 - 21:18]: Next up, legal and today's financial climate.
[21:18 - 21:22]: That is the headline for this one.
[21:22 - 21:30]: So basically, like we all know, we're going into maybe not a crisis, but let's see, definitely a minor recession.
[21:30 - 21:35]: And obviously, it impacts how businesses are operating.
[21:35 - 21:41]: And we can see from our initial survey, and this was concluded in October.
[21:41 - 21:45]: Yeah. So all of these answers are from no later than October.
[21:45 - 22:00]: But back in October, 36% were experiencing a hiring freeze and 75% said that they're impacted by today's financial uncertainties.
[22:00 - 22:03]: And I mean, that kind of says a lot. Right.
[22:03 - 22:14]: I think it says that in 2023, we can in-house legal teams expect to be asked to work with the same amount of people.
[22:14 - 22:16]: But maybe just do more.
[22:16 - 22:20]: Yeah. So what would be the answer to that?
[22:20 - 22:21]: Scaling.
[22:21 - 22:22]: Scaling?
[22:22 - 22:23]: Yeah.
[22:23 - 22:26]: More tools, smarter tools?
[22:26 - 22:37]: So yes and no. I think there is definitely the opportunities with tools. But it also depends on the, it's called maturity of your legal team.
[22:37 - 22:39]: How many people do you have?
[22:39 - 22:40]: Okay.
[22:40 - 22:41]: How are you working?
[22:41 - 22:42]: Yeah.
[22:42 - 22:49]: I think what is most important is that you start looking at what you're doing today.
[22:49 - 22:54]: And assessing whether or not it all makes sense.
[22:54 - 23:01]: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that people out there aren't doing work that aren't making sense.
[23:01 - 23:16]: But what I've been talking to a lot of experts on is very much about asking other parts of the business to take responsibility too.
[23:16 - 23:27]: So we've been talking to different general counsels and some of them are starting to say, okay, so let's take another example. Sales.
[23:27 - 23:36]: Why is it that legal needs to bear the cost for every single contract change or change in the order form?
[23:36 - 23:41]: You could put in place a playbook. And I know a lot of people out there already have.
[23:41 - 23:55]: And then if contracts need to be reviewed or if there are certain causes that need to be amended, well, that work could be placed on the revenue operations team.
[23:55 - 23:56]: Yeah.
[23:56 - 24:00]: Or the commercial leadership team.
[24:00 - 24:18]: So that legal aren't spending, let's say, 20% of the resources on doing that when it's work that is maybe possible to give back, so to speak, to the business and thereby freeing up legal processes.
[24:18 - 24:23]: We talked to Victoria as part of our masterclasses.
[24:23 - 24:28]: And she's very much about how our progressive GC is working and what are they thinking.
[24:28 - 24:32]: And what she said is that it's very much about de-lawyering.
[24:32 - 24:34]: De-what? De-learning?
[24:34 - 24:35]: De-lawyering.
[24:35 - 24:37]: De-lawyering. Ah, de-lawyering.
[24:37 - 24:38]: Yes.
[24:38 - 24:44]: And I was kind of like, de-lawyering? What does that mean? Like, how do you even pronounce it? It's difficult.
[24:44 - 24:47]: You have my reaction to it.
[24:47 - 24:55]: But what she said is that we need to step away from everything having to be the lawyer way of doing it.
[24:55 - 24:56]: Yeah.
[24:56 - 25:00]: And thinking about, do legal need to do this?
[25:00 - 25:01]: Yeah.
[25:01 - 25:03]: Is this a legal demand?
[25:03 - 25:04]: Yeah.
[25:04 - 25:08]: Or is it more just because that's how it's normally been?
[25:08 - 25:09]: Yeah.
[25:09 - 25:16]: Or should legal be even more ingrained in the business?
[25:16 - 25:27]: I mean, that's something we talk a lot about here from where we sit, honestly, how legal should be a much bigger part of the business operations in general.
[25:27 - 25:28]: Right?
[25:28 - 25:29]: Yes.
[25:29 - 25:30]: As advisors, basically.
[25:30 - 25:31]: Yeah.
[25:31 - 25:39]: Which is also something we obviously talked with Rob Chestnut from Airbnb about.
[25:39 - 25:48]: So when we're talking about 2023 and we're also talking about, well, not getting more headcounts, I think that is what we're seeing the most.
[25:48 - 25:53]: That is then, what is legal's biggest pain points and how do we solve it? What's the focus?
[25:53 - 26:03]: And what we can see is that some of the legal struggles that are seen the most can be bundled into these types of categories.
[26:03 - 26:16]: One is managing workload and bandwidth. I think that is the most common one back to really looking at scaling and working smarter or maybe working in different ways than what you are today.
[26:16 - 26:17]: Yeah.
[26:17 - 26:21]: The other one is lack of resources and prioritization.
[26:21 - 26:30]: Then there is something about organization cooperation, time management, improving processes and handling workload and measuring value.
[26:30 - 26:31]: Yeah.
[26:31 - 26:38]: So if I were to say, okay, so in 2023, what should we be looking at or what could be good suggestions?
[26:38 - 26:45]: Well, there's something about taking a holistic view of all the assignments you're working on.
[26:45 - 26:46]: Yeah.
[26:46 - 27:07]: I think one of the ways that I would do it, but I also know that others are doing it and they're most likely much smarter ways of doing it is try to get, like you can use a spreadsheet if you want to, but start to get an overview of what the legal team is spending their time on.
[27:07 - 27:14]: Use Post-it notes, use a spreadsheet, use Slack. It really doesn't matter how you're doing it, but start tracking.
[27:14 - 27:15]: Yeah. To get the data.
[27:15 - 27:16]: Exactly.
[27:16 - 27:17]: Yeah.
[27:17 - 27:18]: The data is the key.
[27:18 - 27:19]: Yeah.
[27:19 - 27:22]: That is where I would start my 2023 on.
[27:22 - 27:23]: Yeah.
[27:22 - 27:26]: Because as soon as you have that data, you also know where you can make the biggest impacts.
[27:26 - 27:27]: Yeah.
[27:27 - 27:37]: So that you can manage the workload, manage the bandwidth, better time management, and thereby also improving processes in the way they are working.
[27:37 - 27:38]: Yeah.
[27:38 - 27:41]: So that's what I would be definitely stretched.
[27:41 - 27:49]: No, not stretched. I would be doing everything I could to try to get as much data as possible.
[27:49 - 28:09]: And I know it's difficult. I know it's not fun, but if you do it as, let's just say in January, asking everybody in the legal team to mark down what they're doing, who are sending requests, what time is being used on which assignments, from which teams.
[28:09 - 28:17]: I think you will find that there are ways that you can easily improve what you're doing.
[28:17 - 28:22]: Yeah. It must be very enlightening. So where do you go from there once you have those numbers?
[28:22 - 28:30]: And you know, let's say, okay, we spend 80% of our time on sales requests, basically. Where do you go from there?
[28:30 - 28:39]: So I think what I would start off with is maybe, well, let's say we're taking sales, because I think it very much depends on what department we're talking about.
[28:39 - 28:48]: But what I would do is firstly, I would then dig a little deeper into certain numbers and see, okay, what is it during the sales process that is taking the time?
[28:48 - 29:00]: Is it the contract negotiation process? Is it specific causes? Is it the order form? Is it GDPR requests? Is it explaining the product or is it negotiating price?
[29:00 - 29:10]: Like all these elements are different. But let's say that it's because it's the same types of contract points that we're getting pushback on every single time.
[29:10 - 29:25]: Well, the easy, and I know everybody out there knows this, but it's about them changing maybe the wording slightly or creating a playbook so that you may already upfront be able to explain why the contract is as it is.
[29:25 - 29:30]: Sometimes you could even kind of like create a little guide for the sales teams.
[29:30 - 29:42]: But what I really think is important is also training the sales teams so they know what is the average process when it comes to lending deals that goes through legal.
[29:42 - 29:49]: And what is then to be expected from closing those deals?
[29:49 - 29:50]: Yeah.
[29:50 - 29:55]: What will it require? How can sales and legal work better together?
[29:55 - 29:56]: Yeah.
[29:56 - 30:14]: We've also seen that implementing a legal desk or a contract desk, different name, same thing, but a sales desk, deal desk, can be one of the ways that you can then take it to the next level, take it to the next step.
[30:14 - 30:25]: Or it could be build a trust center on your website explaining what you're doing, why you're doing it, so that sales has easy access to material that they can just forward on to the legal team.
[30:25 - 30:26]: Yeah.
[30:26 - 30:28]: Yeah. So that's where I would start.
[30:28 - 30:29]: All right.
[30:29 - 30:36]: Then, final, what is going to happen during the next month?
[30:36 - 30:43]: Well, good question. I think it depends on you listening in.
[30:43 - 30:46]: Depends on what type of business you're working in.
[30:46 - 30:59]: But what I can tell you is that openli, our in-house community will be here, and we will be here with even more amazing podcast episodes.
[30:59 - 31:03]: We already have a pretty amazing lineup of speakers.
[31:03 - 31:06]: So stay tuned. We're talking Send Us General Counsel.
[31:06 - 31:09]: We're talking Figma.
[31:09 - 31:20]: There are some amazing people sharing experiences, sharing learnings, and also telling how they get inspired.
[31:20 - 31:24]: Yeah. And they're all redefining legal's role these days, right?
[31:24 - 31:25]: Completely.
[31:25 - 31:29]: Then we're introducing even more masterclasses.
[31:29 - 31:31]: Those are where we're getting these experts in.
[31:31 - 31:39]: Some will talk about NIST 2, some will talk about scaling legal, introducing legal operations in more detail.
[31:39 - 31:47]: And we, as we talked about already, will definitely be looking into legal tools and how you can use those and what's in the market.
[31:47 - 31:51]: And finally, meetups.
[31:51 - 31:58]: Hoping to be able to see everybody during different types of events.
[31:58 - 32:09]: For us, it's all about learning the people's needs, getting to know you out there, and for you to get to know us so we can share.
[32:09 - 32:10]: Learnings?
[32:10 - 32:11]: Definitely.
[32:11 - 32:12]: Yeah.
[32:12 - 32:25]: Getting to know each other, building networks, and then, well, improving and inspiring every single day, hopefully.
[32:25 - 32:31]: So from all of us to all of you, Merry Christmas.
[32:31 - 32:32]: Merry Christmas.
[32:32 - 32:33]: Thanks for listening in.
[32:33 - 32:34]: Bye.
[32:34 - 32:35]: Bye.
[32:37 - 32:40]: Thank you so much for listening in to Inspiring Legal.
[32:40 - 32:42]: Remember to subscribe.
[32:42 - 32:48]: And if you want more information, you can always go to openli.com slash community.
[32:48 - 32:55]: That was openli.com slash community.