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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I know my mission is to serve people and it's to serve people the best way I can. Now, I don't always do it right. I make mistakes. We all do that and believe me, I've taken some arrows in the back trying to pioneer or do new things, but I know it's the right thing to do, so that gives me the courage to do it. That's the other thing that we have is some courage because if you don't take some risks, you're going to under utilize that true potential that we all have.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivations, lives, and characters of innovators who see limitless potential around them. Through these conversations, we hope to provide insight into how you can emulate the mindsets of these extraordinary people in your own life and work. My name is Dr. Kim Kutsch, and I spent over 20 years in dentistry before creating CariFree 20 years ago. We offer a range of dental products to the industry and the public, that promote the health and wellness of people suffering from the disease of dental caries.
This week I'm speaking to a man who's taken more than a few arrows in the back. Dr. Doug Thompson is a pioneer in understanding the connection between oral health and overall well-being. In 2016, he founded the Wellness Dentistry Network to encourage dentists to adopt this more holistic approach, moving beyond the traditional focus on drilling and filling of teeth. Doug serves on the board of the American Academy of Oral Systemic Health, and is an adjunct faculty member and clinical instructor at the Kois Center. Doug had an unusual start as a dentist, working as a lab technician in the day and attending classes at night. It just goes to show you don't need to do things conventionally to become extraordinary.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I can tell you that for any young people or for any people that have children that are struggling with what to do professionally, we think we have to have it all figured out at 18, 19 because that's when our college journey starts or our university journey starts. And I can tell you that for some of us, it takes a long time for that to be clear. And in those early years, Kim, I was going to be an electrician. I was going to be an accountant. I was going to be a lot of things. And the problem that I had, was I liked a lot of different things, and I could do a lot of different things, so I felt like a fish out of water, I didn't know.
Then one day, all of a sudden, it just said it makes lots of sense for me to go and become a dentist. However, I knew that was going to be an uphill journey. I was a non-traditional student. I had a home already. I had to commute 50 miles to school every day. I was not going to live on campus. I was a very non-traditional student. And it was funny because University of Michigan said, "You have to live on campus." And then they said to me, "We're going to monitor you very closely," because Kim, I was the only student that year they accepted that didn't have a bachelor's degree, but it was interesting because they said I had to live on campus. I joined the local dental fraternity, that became my address, and I drove back and forth every day. It was a crazy journey, but it was so worthwhile and dentistry has provided so much for us, but that gives you maybe just a little bit of glimpse into my work ethic.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. What about dentistry, what was the appeal there? Was there something about the profession that attracted you?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah, I love the idea of the mechanics of dentistry and because of the ceramics experience, I thought it was a really nice blend between science and art. It was a really nice opportunity to blend those two together. And when I went to Michigan, I got involved in a relationship with Dr. Walter Loesch. Walter Loesch spent a lot of time studying Metronidazole, and the effect on the microbiome. That whole microbiology piece was really interesting to me. I always loved the biological component of dentistry. That's been fascinating.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You were a pioneer in the American Academy of Oral Systemic Health as well, right, Doug?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah, I was one of the original persons that helped get that movement off the ground, and there's a lot of passionate people there about health and wellness, and there's people now have started to go down their own little track of discovery. We have somebody who's passionate about probiotics, and we have somebody who's passionate about youth and caring for children, and we have all these different avenues that we can explore. That's the beautiful thing about dentistry, is if you don't like one component, there's another component that might suit you. It's really a gift.
And I can tell you the other thing that happens to people is once they get one area of their mouth a little bit healthy, they get more inquisitive about other areas. And this is the genesis of the Wellness Dentistry Network that we've created, and it's really to assist others in helping the patient be healthier beyond the mouth. But what are the simple questions you could ask while they're in the dentist office and you have this beautiful chair time with them? The hygienists have 45 minutes to an hour. Most of our appointments are 15 minutes to an hour. And so, what an opportunity to just ask people and help them be healthier. I think it's something that's missing in our total medical care system. We just don't get to spend the time with the care providers that we need to for them to understand how to help us be well, other than just to cure our illness.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Was there an epiphany moment where you just saw it clearly that we need to treat periodontal disease from a medical standpoint? Was there a real clarifying moment for you or was it more of an evolutionary thing?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
No, it was quite... I was always motivated by Walter's influence and his son-in-law had a beautiful practice in Ruston, Virginia, and they focused mainly on hygiene services. When I went down to visit that practice, I was amazed at the motivational level of the patients that had been educated properly. It was always on my radar to do that, but I started to do something in 2010, I started to study functional medicine, from a standpoint where I wanted to know a little bit more about microbiome and what it does to the body. I went into the physician world and started to attend some American Academy of Anti-Aging medicine meetings. And in 2011, the entire theme of that meeting was inflammation.
I was flying back home on the airplane, and I took a piece of paper out, and I started to write down all the things that maybe I learned from that weekend where I could translate that to the dental practice. What could we do? What questions could we ask? What simple question, like how much water do you drink a day, or do you exercise, or how much sleep do you get? And I was thinking, what could we do to help patients reduce the inflammatory burden? We're living that every day, and it's the culture of our practice, and you feel it when you walk in the door.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I'm just reflecting for a moment. I'm listening to you, Doug, and I'm reflecting for a moment. I'm having an interview here with a dentist, and we haven't talked about teeth yet at all, right? But I think that you're on that cusp of where the profession is headed, as I sit and as we have this conversation. I think that it's important and I tell young people this. In fact, I just had a young person come visit in June who's thinking about maybe dentistry as a career, and visited a local Dr. Drill and F,ill, and came away and went, "Nah, I don't think I want to do that." And I said, "Before you make that decision, it's a huge profession, and there's all these different opportunities within that. It isn't just about drilling and filling. It's about this whole medical component about where the profession is going, in terms of oral health, but as it relates to systemic health. And the opportunities there, you could do research, and you could teach, you could be involved in industry. The potential is limitless."
Dr. Doug Thompson:
There's no question. It's just an amazing opportunity. And we still have a responsibility as a dental surgeon and not a specialty in surgery, but our degrees are, we either have a doctorate of medical dentistry or we have a doctorate of dental surgery. To your point earlier, you talked about it being a surgical degree, we still have to be able to do all the mechanical things to repair disease, but what if we could prevent it? When someone comes into my practice, I don't want to just do two and three surface fillings and benefit from that. I'd like to get paid to manage the microbiome so they don't get those cavitations in the teeth that require the fillings.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Doug's success story is inspiring, especially considering he entered the profession later than most. Don't get me wrong, 30 is still young, but you're at a different life stage than somebody who has just left school. Many individuals contemplate career shifts at this stage or even later in life. In 2000, when I started CariFree, I was really at a point in my career where I had been studying dental caries and wondering why my patients continued to get cavities, and I was frustrated, and they were frustrated.
When I finally read all the science and got my brain around that disease, I realized the way that I wanted to approach treating it, from a holistic standard, the products that I wanted didn't exist, and I realized I was going to have to create them. And so, I started a company to create those products, to help patients, to help people. At that point in time, I really wasn't looking to start a new company, but the products that I wanted didn't exist. And if nobody else was going to develop or create those, I decided it was on me and I was going to go create those. It takes curiosity and it takes commitment.
That's what I see from all of the extraordinary people that I've interviewed. And so I would encourage people, again, talk to a mentor, investigate, write a good business plan, and talk to people, but don't be paralyzed by your own fear. Don't create your own glass ceiling. Take those opportunities in life. I encourage you, if you're not happy, you only get to do this once, be fulfilled in what you're doing. Ultimately, it's never too late to venture into something new. Passion fuels perseverance and surrounding yourself with mentors, as Doug did, can provide invaluable support along the way.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I think in a way, my very first man that I worked for in a professional setting, was Sam Ursu. And although Sam was very hard on me, and I went in with a lot of behaviors that were inappropriate for a professional setting, I grew up in a pretty rough area and I was a unschooled kid, he took me under his wing and taught me a lot of things. It was the pursuit of excellence that I think was in continuous learning. I knew that education was important.
And then I fast-forward ahead and I meet someone like John Kois. John Kois is the pinnacle of perseverance, and pursuit of excellence, continuous learning, all the stuff. But now, he has a very unique feature about him and characteristic, and that's called humility. He's humble. And so when you have somebody who has that kind of knowledge, and can encourage you, and they're approachable, that's a gift.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And it's powerful.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I know. He understands clearly what his mission is. I know my mission is to serve people. It's to serve in my community, it's to serve people in my profession, and it's to serve people the best way I can. Now, I don't always do it right. I make mistakes. We all do that. And believe me, I've taken some arrows in the back like you have, trying to pioneer or do new things, but I know it's the right thing to do, so that gives me the courage to do it. That's the other thing that we have is some courage because if you don't take some risks, you're going to under utilize that true potential that we all have.
I see that with John, Dr. Kois, I see it with you, I see it with the people. I'm honored and humbled to be in a room when I go to our annual symposium and I'm around professionals all over the world that are doing extraordinary things. But you know what? We all think we're ordinary. We all think we're ordinary.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That seems to be a common thread in this podcast. I'll interview extraordinary people, who clearly are not normal. Right?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Well, we get our power, and our strength, and our ambition from somewhere. And for me, I really believe, Kim, it's a gift. I was given that. I am a man of faith. I believe that it's just a gift and I just don't want to squander it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. One of the questions I have about extraordinary people is it hard baked in the DNA? Are you born that way? Is it something that we've learned along the way, or is it something that we've chosen to do, some place we've chosen to take our lives? What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I think that people end up doing extraordinary things out of passion for that topic. For instance, my son's getting his master's in business administration, and he's working full-time, and he just recently told me that he found a new hobby. And I said, "What do you mean you found a new hobby? I didn't know that you were pursuing something else." He's been spending time getting mentored in a glass-blowing studio. And I said, "Nick, why are you learning this? What's going on?" He goes, "Dad, I just love it."
I think that for me, when I'm in my dental practice, people ask me how long I'm going to work, and my answer is, "Until I can't" because I love it. It's where my friends are. It's where I feel great during the day doing that. And Kim, maybe we're built, maybe we're a bitten with a little bit of extra drive. We all have isms, and maybe workaholism is another one of those things. People see that in us and they say, "Oh, you work too much." Not if it feels like you're playing, you're not working too much.
That's what I think. I think passion for something because then it doesn't seem like it's so much work. It's almost effortless. You're just going there because you want to and you discover it. I think everybody has something in their life they could be passionate about. The secret is finding it, and realizing it, and then nurturing it-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Pursuing it. Pursuing it. Yeah. I guess interesting. I'm listening to you, and I think I loved dentistry when I practiced. I loved every day of it, and I'd be so happy in the morning going to the office. I never felt like I had a job. I never felt like I worked. It was just what I did with my life, and it's how I spent my time. I always had this little... I felt a little guilty because everybody else worked, and I never really felt like I had a "job." I didn't have this 8:00 to 5:00 thing that I was a slave to. And so I always had this little pang of guilt like, gosh, I cheated the system. I got to live my life without ever having to have a job and had to work, but I was serving people and I never saw it that way.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah, it's interesting. I have a hygienist that recently became, let's just say financially independent. Something changed in the family and she all of a sudden had more resources than she had prior, and she's a different person after taking what she thought was the burden of work. Now, she doesn't have to work. Guess what she's doing now? She's still helping out, but her plan is to eventually retire. I'm telling the story because maybe I am a little out of the ordinary because people would ask me, we always play this game, "What would you do if you won the lottery?" My answer is, "I probably would just start at 10:00." I would just get an extra hour of sleep.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I'd come in an hour later.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah, that's about it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
How do you deal with the work balance thing, the work life balance? How does that-
Dr. Doug Thompson:
It's somewhat out of balance in some people's eyes, family members, they might see it that way. However, my advice to anybody who's working, is do not ever wait to have a unique experience, or take a trip, or go and do something. Live along the way, right? You got to live along the way. We leave it up to us to decide when we're doing too much, but all of us push the envelope. And all of us at times are going to feel some sense of fatigue, or burnout, or some sense of dissatisfaction with the pace. Certain things move because they take time to develop and you get frustrated, but do not put life on hold just to do some work.
At the terminus of your life, you're never going to lay there and say, "I wish I worked another day." I think you have to balance that out. I think one of the things you do is you get your calendar out in the beginning of the year, and you just scratch off certain time, and say, "That time's for me and that time's for wherever I want to go with it, and it's not negotiable." I try to do that more and more, but that's a challenge. It's always a challenge for any hard driving professional to figure out how to balance that out.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hey, Contrary to Ordinary listeners, I want to tell you about my company CariFree. We offer affordable science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family. Vanish cavities for good, and welcome in A healthy smile and a great first impression. Visit CariFree.com for more details. Now, back to the show.
How do you deal with challenges in your life, like frustrations and challenges? How do you deal with stuff like that?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I started to do some journaling, I think, to try to make sense out of it. And Kim, I'm trying to live my life and I'm trying to become a gentler man. I like the word gentleman, and I'm trying to become a gentler man. Life's always going to present challenges, and so I think first, dealing with them somewhat level if you can, and then relying on some people that have maybe been where you are in that challenge. I don't know what it's like to have a sick child. I don't know what it's like to lose my parents early. I don't know what it's like... There's certain things I don't know and so when those challenges come up, the first thing I do is try to stay somewhat level about it, but then also I pray about it, and then I also ask to find out who's dealt with the same kind of thing that could give me guidance. Seeking the help of others, and asking for help, and even getting help yourself, professional, help yourself, it's not a weakness, it's a strength.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think one of the things that as we've come through this whole COVID experience, the pandemic, and then people trying to make sense of that, and put our lives back together after all of the closures, and shutdowns, and all of the mental health issues, and for children, and school aged children, and all of that, I think one of the things I think is we need to be just gentler, kinder, nicer to each other. If you could choose to do something, be nice. Right?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
For sure. And be careful with judgment. Be careful with judgment because you just, oftentimes we haven't walked in someone else's shoes and we see people that we think do very unexpected things. I think that some of the pressure and some of the things can get us off track. And especially if you have unhealed wounds from your childhood, that can really creep up into your life and it can wreak havoc at any age, so having a handle on that and trying to discover what makes you tick and what you need from the other people who are significant in your life, that's going to be important. Communication's important.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. You talked about faith earlier. Doug, tell me about that faith or the role and the importance that plays in your life.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah. I had a course in, I believe it was in the community college, and it was called Great Religions of the World. And what I realized, Kim, is that faith and the ability to believe in something beyond yourself, has really helped many civilizations maintain some social order, and maintain some element of kindness, and helping other people. Whether it's a universal spirit, whether it's God, whether it's whatever your source of that faith is, I just know this is too well-designed for it just to happen out of the blue. I have faith that there's other powers watching. I'll have conversations with that power and ask it for guidance. If you don't hear it, maybe it's because you're not listening.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I was reading about it physicist the other day, and he was working out one of Einstein's equations, and it was on thermodynamics, and he was trying to figure out what the odds were of some event occurring, and in the natural order of our life on this planet, and he worked out that it was 10 to the 300th power. He got done and he said, "This couldn't just happen." The odds of that are so infinitesimal that it's like it led him to have some faith that there was some greater order. Whether it's a belief in God or whatever your particular faith, like you just mentioned, but it's interesting that this physicist was working on this and came to the point, it was in the book of Revelations, that he ended up in chapter 22 in Revelations, and he was like, "This couldn't just happen. The odds of this are beyond are beyond possible."
Dr. Doug Thompson:
For sure.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I just found that fascinating because faith plays a huge role in my own life as well. And I think you mentioned the gift earlier. I think we all, everybody, I'm coming to believe that extraordinary people are ordinary people who have discovered that gift or that passion, and then are focused on developing it and sharing it, I think. I think that's where I'm coming from, which is inspirational, I think for everybody. I think we all have-
Dr. Doug Thompson:
Yeah, because I think everybody has a unique contribution they can make. And what are we trying to do? We're just trying to make the world a better place and have more joy, less violence, less of the things that hurt people, and more of the things that heal people.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, it'd be a better world, wouldn't it?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
It'd be a better world. We're making it a better place. We are.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Let's face it. It can be tough to get inspired sometimes. Like with anything in life, this precious resource ebbs and flows. In dentistry, we are often inspired by the visible impact our work has. But if you're not in a helping profession, one surefire way to make yourself feel more inspired, is to surround yourself with inspirational people. Thankfully, Doug has a family full of them.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I'm inspired by my family, my kids, Nick and Jen, and my mother. My mother has polio. She's 85. And when my father left home, she had never worked a day her life outside of the home, and she could move slightly, take a few steps, but always needed support, and she learned how to type, and then became a key punch operator, and then she got a job at a hospital in Detroit called Providence Hospital, and she became the lead management information person for Providence, and had a perfect attendance record after 25 years. When you think about dedication and work ethic, very often Kim, I think I wake up and I'm tired, and then I think about what my mom went through, and I'm like, I'm not even in it. She's another one of my work heroes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow, that's an amazing story. She's got to be an amazing person.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
She's an amazing woman.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. What's one or two things about you that you would say people wouldn't know?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
A couple things they wouldn't know is that I had a very strong fear of public speaking. I still struggle going into a room. I always come out knowing somebody, but it's hard for me. It's not so easy for me. Sometimes, even though I am quite a social person, I feel like I'm craving more time alone. I don't use that word alone as by myself, because I'm never alone and no one's ever alone. I think people would see me and they would say, "I wouldn't expect him to say that," but it's hard for me sometimes. Again, when you're pioneering certain things, sometimes you feel a little lonely, and that can be hard. That's a couple things.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Fear of public speaking, so you must have gotten over that somewhere along the line because you teach a lot.
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I did get over it. I really enjoy it now. And I think that instead of me having to get up and think about what people were going to think of what I was going to say, I changed the mantra a little bit. I felt like people like you give me the encouragement that I do have something to say. Then my goal is, and what I try to do is, what gift can I give somebody that I'm speaking to today? What can that be? And when you get positive feedback from that, then it just gives you the encouragement that it's okay. And so once I got a little bit of affirmation that it's okay, then it became fun for me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Do you feel energized when you do that?
Dr. Doug Thompson:
I do. I do. You always feel a little nervous, but my nerves come from, I want to make sure that this group gets a gift from me today and what's that going to be? What's that going to be? I want that. And my gift to this podcast is I want everybody to know that there's a great creative side inside of everybody. Just look for it, and if you find that, then you can develop it and you can run with it, and everybody can be extraordinary.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much, Dr. Doug Thompson for joining me today. And thank you for going on this inspiring journey with me. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile, or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary. Bye for now.