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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the 2x Webby Award Honoree Be A Marketer podcast! New episodes coming in July!
[0:00] Dave Charest: On today's episode, you'll hear from a nonprofit marketer who turned a dream role into a mission-driven career, combining marketing skills, community support, and a deep love of wildlife to make a real impact. This is the Be a Marketer podcast.
[0:27] Dave Charest: My name is Dave Charest, director of small businesses at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore what it really takes to market your business, even if marketing's not your thing. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer, and at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
[0:59] Dave Charest: Well, hello friend and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Joining me today, well, and every day, I suppose, is the wonderful Kelsi Carter. Hi,
[01:09] Kelsi Carter: Kelsi. Hi Dave, how are you?
[01:11] Dave Charest: I'm doing fantastic as always. I feel like I'm always doing pretty fantastic. I don't know what it is.
[01:17] Kelsi Carter: You're always fantastic I'm around. We're
[01:18] Dave Charest: the fantastic,
[01:20] Kelsi Carter: fantastic. We don't need 4, we just need 2
[01:23] Dave Charest: of us plenty. Thank you very much. All right, speaking of numbers.
[01:27] Dave Charest: I'm gonna do some math. Ready? There were 3.
[01:31] Dave Charest: But now there are 6. Is this what I'm understanding to
[01:34] Dave Charest: be true?
[01:35] Kelsi Carter: Yes, my ducks, I know there were 3 and now there are 6 ducks and 1 male.
[01:41] Dave Charest: What the heck happened? Well, wait, so 6 total, one of them is male, right? Yes,
[01:46] Kelsi Carter: 6 total, one of them is male, so 5 female.
[01:49] Kelsi Carter: Um, which is good because you need more female than male anyway. Um, but so one of our friends ended up getting ducks, but then was going through a situation where she couldn't really keep them, so she asked if we wanted them, and of course we said yes, we had the space for them anyway. And honestly, taking care of 6 is not much different than taking care of 3 already. So they're already making the mess. We're already having to like feed them, change the water, everything like that. So it's genuinely not much different.
[02:18] Dave Charest: All right.
[02:18] Dave Charest: So I'm asking, so I have a couple of cats, right? And so I know one cat doesn't necessarily like the other cat. Is this something that happens in duck circles as well? Do they not get along with each other or are they just all cool?
[02:30] Kelsi Carter: I'm
[02:31] Kelsi Carter: sure that they're going to have like I'm sure that there's going to be some of them where you're like, you know what, I actually don't really like you today. Um, we haven't experienced too much yet with them. They immediately the second that we put them on.
[02:42] Kelsi Carter: Together, they all flocked together. I think they were just like, Oh, you guys look like me. So they're just like, cool. They all started running around with their tall necks. We're super friendly with one another. I haven't noticed the male. I was worried about the male, maybe being a little mean. I haven't noticed that yet. I've noticed him maybe like commanding them like quack and then they like go do something as soon as he quacks like they'll move.
[03:05] Kelsi Carter: So I'll be like, is he like telling them to move, but no one's picking on each other yet. We haven't noticed that. So everyone seems pretty nice so far.
[03:12] Dave Charest: Wow.
[03:15] Kelsi Carter: So we're going to have too many eggs. Luckily they're not laying yet, but we're still getting 3 a day.
[03:21] Dave Charest: OK.
[03:22] Dave Charest: Well, I guess I'll put in an order for my for my next bat.
[03:28] Dave Charest: So this actually has a very good tie in our conversation today, when we think of you stepping in and taking care of these extra 3 ducks, now, you know, mommy duck 6, maybe that's what I'll call you from now on. I don't know, we'll see, we'll see if mummy duck stick 6, we'll see if it's see if it sticks. Wait, what?
[03:48] Dave Charest: OK, everything's fine. So, but I think, you know, our story today, if we think about it, is really all about stewardship, right, in many ways for animals, for the environment and for the local community, right? So our guests' efforts are really grounded in the belief that, look, we all play a role in protecting the world around us.
[04:09] Dave Charest: And stewardship really shows up in her approach to communications, donor relationships, and her team's commitment to purpose over just the transaction. So, Kelsi, why does this all make sense for today? Who's joining us?
[04:25] Kelsi Carter: Today's guest is Lisa Franco. She's the director of development at Woodford Cedar Run Wildlife Refuge in Medford, New Jersey. It's a very unique organization doing some really awesome work. They're part wildlife hospital, part education center, and part sanctuary.
[04:41] Kelsi Carter: They were founded in 1957. It's the oldest, largest, and busiest wildlife hospital in New Jersey. They saw over 7000 animals in 2024.
[04:51] Dave Charest: Crazy. That's a, that seems like a lot of animals to see in a year. Um, as you mentioned, cedar.
[04:59] Dave Charest: Run is, of course, one of the, the busiest wildlife hospitals in the state and runs entirely on community donations, so they don't get any community government funding or anything like that. Lisa herself, she brings a background in marketing, she went back to school to learn more about fundraising while in the role.
[05:17] Dave Charest: And she's really passionate about educating the public, stewarding donors, of course, and really preserving that balance between nature and human development. Oh, and just to mention, she also launched a side hustle for the organization, which is Weddings in the Wild. Hey, listen,
[05:34] Kelsi Carter: I'm engaged. it perked my ears. I was
[05:36] Kelsi Carter: gonna
[05:36] Dave Charest: say I was like, uh oh, somebody's got a trip to New Jersey coming up. Caitlin
[05:40] Kelsi Carter: would love to have wild animals running around her wedding, trust
[05:43] Dave Charest: me.
[05:44] Dave Charest: that I'm seeing like what is that East Ventura called the wild. I'm seeing like
[05:48] Kelsi Carter: and then our ducks,
[05:49] Kelsi Carter: of course, would have to be,
[05:50] Dave Charest: of course they would be there, they would be walking down the aisle and all of that kind of stuff. So anyway, aside from lovely weddings in the wild, in our conversation today, you're going to hear how a marketing mindset helps solve one of the biggest nonprofit challenges, which is, of course, awareness, why storytelling is Lisa's not so secret weapon for driving donations and engagement.
[06:11] Dave Charest: And how Cedar Run uses weddings as a creative way to reach the younger demographic and why it's worked. So, let's go to Lisa as she shares more about the responsibilities of the dream job she never thought would happen.
[06:25] Lisa Franco: My main job is to basically get funding for the center. Uh, it's mainly for the wildlife rehabilitation Hospital. We do have educational programs, um, that our education team will oversee to, to get in some funding, and then we have memberships, but our wildlife rehabilitation hospital kind of is a deficit for us. So we really just, you know, are hoping to break.
[06:46] Lisa Franco: Even at that point, our average cost of care for an animal is $87 and our average donation is about $14. So, and seeing 7300 animals, a lot of mouths to feed, a lot of animals to clean and, and keep everything up to code. And so my role is to try and find funding, whether it's through grant funding.
[07:07] Lisa Franco: And then really stewarding our donors and making sure that people in the community and further understand, you know, what they're supporting and making them feel a part of it. We have a, a little slogan that we like to say, it's like your place in the wild. And it truly is like, if you were in New Jersey, I would definitely have you come out because, you know, the first time I visited, I was shocked that something so
[07:29] Lisa Franco: Perfect and magical, lived in this like small place in Medford. You know, I had lived in Jersey for at the time, 11 years and I had never even been there. And I was like, I had no idea this existed. Like, it's just this perfect plot of land that has truly been preserved in the Pinelands is like such a cool spot for people to see.
[07:48] Lisa Franco: And like, we want people to be able to experience that, you know, be able to steward the kids that are coming and having them feel a part of something bigger and, and really understanding what they're going to do, you know, as they grow up. We also do 7 special events throughout the year. So they're all fundraising efforts to help with the funding. So I oversee all of those events, including our biggest fundraiser of the year, which was one in Wildlife.
[08:14] Lisa Franco: So that one is an off-site one that we do, which we partner with a local liquor store or wine, uh, distributor, and we're able to do over like 100 different samples of wine. And this year, we actually were able to make over $40,000 at just that one event. Yeah. So, and that is, you know, a really cool way for us to be able to get in that funding, but also be able to kind of celebrate with everybody and get to meet our donors face to face, not, you know, only have a phone call or an email.
[08:43] Lisa Franco: And then I also oversee all of like our outreach. So all of our social media, all of our emails. I actually just recently becoming the director of development, have passed on some of the tasks of actually building the emails and doing some of the social media, which I'm not gonna lie, I kind of missed it. It's like the fun, the fun part, but it's really awesome to be able to see my team being able to kind of like take that over. And it's, I feel like they're doing such a good job at making sure that we're really pushing our mission and, and showing the people.
[09:12] Lisa Franco: What we're able to do and using the platforms that we have for really good things. You know, some social media and, you know, emails, people like, Oh, I don't want another email. But we actually hear from people all the time how much they love our emails. They love reading and finding new information that they don't know if they could trust Google or they just don't have the time to look that up, or knowing that this groundhog was released and talking about the American casserole that made it and had, you know, 3 babies. So it's, it's a really cool way to be able to connect with them.
[09:42] Dave Charest: What do you love most then about the role that you've been in?
[09:45] Lisa Franco: I think knowing that I'm making a difference in, like, an animal's life. For me, like, not just does it feel really good and rewarding for me doing this job, but it's knowing that we are actually saving lives and lives that don't always get the, you know, the best treatment. Not everybody likes an opossum. Not everybody.
[10:04] Lisa Franco: Nobody likes raccoons. Everybody wants to see a snake, and, you know, they're still so important to our ecosystem. I also, all the full-time staff, um, we all take shifts in the wildlife hospital during baby season, which is our busiest season. So it's from April to September, and it's when we will see the height of our animals. So
[10:23] Lisa Franco: Usually we'll see around the 5 or 6000 within just those months. We could get up to 100 animals a day and have up to 500 animals in care. So we all kind of pitch in and take morning shifts, or we'll do a volunteer and a night shift and, you know, do a 4 hour shift to help feed, help clean. And being able to really work hands on with the animals is like such a cool way to be able to really understand our mission. You know, I'm not just sitting behind a computer and saying, you know,
[10:50] Lisa Franco: Give us funding, give us funding, but then not actually understanding what's happening in the wildlife hospital. I'm there also, not as much as some of our wildlife rehabilitators, but being able to really see, you know, the injuries that are coming in or the things that are happening, whether it's a storm or being hit by a car or being stuck in a glue trap or caught by a cat or a dog in their yard. And seeing that like, we can make a difference in these tiny little beings' lives, it's, it's really just such a
[11:18] Lisa Franco: A cool way, and you know how much it's affecting not just that animal, but our actual ecosystem. You know, the more that we're doing this, the more we're going to see the population start to rise. Um, New Jersey, the state actually, I think it was this year, had released that their bald eagle is no longer on the threatened list. And that's like such an exciting thing for us, like, to be able to see that we're a part of helping that. So I think that's kind of the, one of the, the best feelings.
[11:46] Lisa Franco: How do the animals get to you? Yeah, that's a really great question. So, because we're such a small team, so we're only a team of 12 full-time staff, and then we do have some part-time staff that help throughout, like, busy season, like the baby season.
[11:59] Lisa Franco: But, and then we do have over 200 volunteers. Those are really to just help with feeding and making sure, you know, with baby birds come in, they're literally fed every 30 minutes. So when people will bring animals to us, you know, they'll give us a call and then people have called and asked us, like, can you come out? But because we
[12:17] Lisa Franco: Take statewide, it's really hard for us to get over to, you know, wherever one person is, especially think of 7300 animals. So that's 7300 places we would have to get to. And we obviously do not have the capacity for that and for the actual care that we're doing.
[12:34] Lisa Franco: So we call them wildlife heroes. We, you know, encourage them, and we'll walk them through if it's sometimes a little easier when it's a baby bird versus a raccoon. But, um, we'll, you know, walk them through that. We also do have resources for them where they can call an animal control or another company that we actually work for is UFO or work with is UFO Wildlife. They're
[12:57] Lisa Franco: for us, and they are really great. They're actually one of our guardians of the wild, which is like one of our biggest sponsors. And they're just a really cool company that will go out and kind of do that transportation. We also have volunteers that will offer to help kind of volunteer their time if they're down in, you know, Cape May County or Atlantic County. And, you know, those, those can be a 2 hour drive to Cedar Run. So, you know, it's really
[13:20] Lisa Franco: Again, the public really taking initiative and being a part of that. And that is something, again, part of my job is to make sure that people feel like they're a part of Cedar Run. We could not do this work without the entire public. That just the 12 of us are doing, you know, such really great work, but without those people and our volunteers, we wouldn't be able to do this work.
[13:40] Dave Charest: mentioned earlier, one of the challenges, or at least
[13:40] Dave Charest: You
[13:44] Dave Charest: You know, you didn't even know about the place, right? And you're somebody that would be very much would like to know that that type of place exists. So like, I have to imagine, is that the, the main challenge is making sure that people know you exist or what is most challenging about what you're
[13:58] Dave Charest: doing?
[13:58] Lisa Franco: So there's 21 is definitely that people don't know right there, that we're there.
[14:03] Lisa Franco: In Medford alone, um, we have met people that are like, I've lived here 20 years, and I had no idea you guys were here. We sit so far back and then we don't have this like mass marketing. Um, and even if we did, I don't know if it would actually work. So it's just building bigger awareness that we are here and that we also are a free resource, as much as we do encourage donations.
[14:25] Lisa Franco: Because they do really help with the cost of care for the animals. But we are truly a free free resource. If you want to give us a call, we receive over 17,000 calls during the summer. And people are like, Man, that's a lot of phone calls. We don't want to call you. And we're like, No, please call us. We'd rather you call us because the other issue is that people can bring in animals and we'll be like, there's nothing wrong with this animal. Please take it back. So we would rather people not, you know, as we call it kind of like kidnap them, um, out of the wild.
[14:52] Lisa Franco: The other issue is kind of that education. So the education side of things of, you know, people keeping animals as pets and then, you know, not realizing that they can't keep a wild animal as a pet, or even that they, they shouldn't or wouldn't want to once they get to be an adult. Sometimes at some point, they will then become imprinted or habituated, which can make it really difficult in some ways irreversible. Um, and that's how they kind of live with us. So we do have over 55 residents that live on site with us that we keep with us permanently, that can't.
[15:20] Lisa Franco: Be released due to, um, injury or impairment. Like if they're a bird, sometimes they can't see or they can't fly. Um, most of our mammals are with us because they are habituated, so they were kept as pets, or they were injured in some way as a baby, and they can't, they basically can't survive in the wild. So we're able to educate the public where they can see them up close and care a little bit more about these wild animals and, and have kind of a connection with them. So I do think, you know, the main thing is definitely
[15:49] Lisa Franco: Just having a bigger reach in marketing and people understanding what we actually do. We also get phone calls, Hey, can I come adopt your fox and like take her home? Can, you know, I pick up the opossum that I dropped off and bring it back home with me. Like, like, we're not a vet. So, you know, because we are a free resource, there's no cost for you to drop it off. But that doesn't mean that we're going to give it back to you either. We do always release back to wherever they were found, um, as close as possible that we can get, especially Birds of Prey.
[16:17] Lisa Franco: Um, those ones like we want to make sure they're in their territory. So there's a lot that goes into also the release part of it and making sure that we really do have that information. Again, that's what's really great about the people that are coming to drop them off. And we're a 24 hour drop off. So we're, we're not only staffed 24 hours, we do have somebody that lives on site for like our animals and for drop-offs. But if you find an animal at 2 a.m., we are still open to your the open doors, um, to come drop off, drop it off, put it in a
[16:44] Lisa Franco: Safe place, make sure that they are warm and, you know, no food or water for 24 hours until we can like kind of assess them, that could be really detrimental to an animal too, if you don't kind of know what is going on, um, with it. We don't want to drown it or, you know, give it something that it shouldn't have. And most other wildlife rehabilitation centers are not open 24/7. And once they kind of reach their calf, they will kind of start closing their doors and say, we, we don't have any more room. We
[17:11] Lisa Franco: We do not have that. We will just keep taking them in and taking them in and taking them in. So we are really lucky and our wildlife rehabilitator, our director, Laurie Swanson, she's been with the organization for 15 years, and she started as a volunteer in 2007. And to be honest, she's just such a remarkable person. She's helped save so many animals and her team, our assistant director, Heather and our supervisor, Kelsi, like they are free wildlife rehabilitation.
[17:38] Lisa Franco: that are in our hospital that are full time and they truly are not just helping the animals, but also to educate our volunteers and our staff on how, you know, I had never volunteered with wildlife before. I'd never fed a baby squirrel. I couldn't tell you how to handle a raccoon, and they taught me how to do all of it. So it really is like such a really cool dynamic that we all have, and we all are in it for the same mission. We all believe in the same thing and we all want the same thing for the community.
[18:06] Dave Charest: So when you start thinking about your, your background in marketing, and you know, obviously you've you've gone to to learn more on the fundraising side of things, but when you think about those challenges just in terms of awareness and education, how does that marketing background come into play and how does that help
[18:21] Lisa Franco: Being able to really look at things in like a micro and a macro way, if you kind of just went to school for fundraising, I don't know if you would be able to understand the full consumer behavior. Um, you might be able to understand why somebody donates or, you know, why somebody cares about this cause, but to actually get that information in there, in front of them might be a little bit more difficult. So you're gonna want to talk to people that already kind of are in
[18:21] Dave Charest: you?
[18:45] Lisa Franco: The scope of what you do, but not really getting anybody new. So having that marketing background has kind of helped me to see, OK, so this is how I can utilize the people that already know about us, but what about all the people who don't? And see how we can use different marketing aspects and social media and the email portion to be able to say word it this way, or make them excited because, you know,
[19:09] Lisa Franco: By sending out patient updates. Not all the time do we be able to say like this patient was released, but to send it to the whole, our whole email list that this, you know, I'll just use a more recent one. Our groundhog that came in, adult groundhog had a mason jar lid around its neck. And so we were able to cut it off and, you know, rehabilitate him and give him some hydration and had a really
[19:32] Lisa Franco: Successful release. That kind of thing, you know, is such a heartwarming for the public to be able to see and to be able to share that with them. It's not in any way like this, like, devious kind of marketing way of, you know, giving, giving us money. It's just truly utilizing our stories and being able to, to share that, that story piece telling or storytelling piece and
[19:56] Lisa Franco: Um, having people understand like, our mission. I think really understanding how consumers, because at the end of the day, we are, we're not selling them a product, we're selling kind of a service and like a, a feel good. And to me, uh, I, you know, I've done marketing for a couple of years before this, and I, I find it to be the hardest, even though
[20:17] Lisa Franco: I'm so passionate about it. Not everyone understands or, you know, cares. They're like, Well, what am I getting out of it? And that tangible thing, I can't give them. I can't give them while you're saving the world. You're saving this animal. I can't give you back that animal. So it's a little bit harder of a cell, but knowing that it's something that's so deeply like rooted in our, I guess our heart, it, it really, I think makes it.
[20:41] Lisa Franco: Easier when you have that marketing background to be able to to understand what people are looking for when they can't have something tangible.
[20:50] Dave Charest: So, if I'm not mistaken, were you, you started in, in fashion marketing, is this correct? Yeah, I'm curious, I mean, is there anything that you learned kind of in that area or in that background that influences how you approach the marketing that you're doing now?
[21:06] Lisa Franco: I think just again, like just understanding, you know, what people are looking for and the different trends, how nothing kind of stays the same. Um, with a lot of nonprofits, you'll hear, I've done that.
[21:18] Lisa Franco: Uh, we've done this forever. Why change it? And it's like, no, you have to continue to change with the times. And that's kind of how fashion is, you know, fashion is constantly changing. And even though it has its classic time pieces with nonprofits, we're kind of in the same. Like we have our classic ways of doing things, whether it's an appeal or in a letter or something like that, but we have to add in new things. There's a lot of nonprofits that aren't doing emails. There's a lot of nonprofits that don't see the benefits.
[21:45] Lisa Franco: Social media, they don't see the benefit in going to a table at a festival and talking about and passing out flyers or, or giving out free stickers to really kind of sell yourself to some of these people. Um, and I think that those are just really big components and, you know, in fashion, you're constantly trying to just get your, your name out and get your, your product in front of somebody. And that one person could be, you know, your selling moment. You know, Nordstrom picks me up, then I'm good.
[22:12] Lisa Franco: We're kind of the same, you know, if this, if this one organization is willing to donate and be, you know, one of our sponsors for 10 years, it could be a really big benefit for us. You know, uh, one of our longest, we call them guardians of the wild is Holman. They've actually been with us for 10 years, uh, next year. And to have a corporation that truly supports what we do, that is such a huge organization. It's not, uh, or corporation.
[22:39] Lisa Franco: That they sell cars. They really don't have anything to do with wildlife, but they came to us and, you know, they wanted to help. And so I think there is a lot of the, how to kind of work together and see what can be utilized and, and making sure that you're constantly moving forward in society and not kind of staying with, well, that's just how we've always done it, so I'm gonna continue to do that. Hope it works.
[23:03] Dave Charest: So, you brought up an interesting point just in terms of like how long the organization has been around and there's sort of this kind of legacy way of doing things and to your point, you have to, you do have to kind of do new things in order to bring new people in. And so I guess the question is, how do you strike that balance? Like what does that look like for you?
[23:22] Lisa Franco: I think as a team, we, so we meet pretty weekly, um, to go over things and, you know, having people like our executive director, our director of education, and then our director of like rehabilitation, they've all been with the organization 10+ years. So, especially for me only being just a little at 3 years, it's kind of difficult to see how things were always done.
[23:44] Lisa Franco: Um, and making sure that like legacy is still there, because that part is still really important. You know, Jean Woodford, their daughter, um, is a co-founder, and she is still on the board. She actually lives on site and like, you know, she's still very much a part of the organization and making sure that we're looking to our board and saying, you know, how, how do we incorporate this new thing while also
[24:06] Lisa Franco: Keeping true to who we are. And I think we always just turn back to our mission. Is this mission related? Is this helping wildlife? Is this educating the public about the environment? And are we doing anything to hurt the land that we've conserved or the land that we're trying to conserve, even if it's not protected? Um, and really going back to those three things, as long as it kind of falls into play with that.
[24:27] Lisa Franco: Then I think we're good to move forward. And, and like I said, truly turning to the team, every single person that is on our team fights for the same thing, believes in the same thing. You know, I don't know if you'll find that at every nonprofit, but I've worked with a lot of organizations and you don't always find everyone that aligns. And we are all very vastly different, but we somehow all align on this one thing. So it's, it's such a cool dynamic, you know, when I have interns.
[24:55] Lisa Franco: They come from a bunch of different schools, they all end up saying, like, they just love the dynamic that they have, not just to know that they're doing something cool and get to work with wildlife, but our team is special. We're really like trying to do something that's greater and, and really working towards a mission that we all care about.
[25:14] Dave Charest: When you think
[25:15] Dave Charest: about who it is that you're, I guess if there's a specific audience that you're trying to reach, and and I have to imagine there's probably
[25:22] Dave Charest: Multiple audiences, right, where you've got people that may volunteer and you've got donors, of course, you've got individual donors, you've got corporate donors, you've got all of these different things. And so, I guess how do you start to manage that and are there any particular messages that you find that that have worked well for you as you've started to spread the awareness of of the organization?
[25:44] Lisa Franco: Yeah, I think, um, it's knowing kind of what's, it kind of goes back to that consumer behavior, like what's in it for them. Like, at the end of the day, it's a great mission, but you do kind of have to think about what is good for them. What's good for a business might not be the same, that's good for an individual. One of our guardians of the wild, they, one of the things that the majority of them actually really care about is that we give them memberships to give out to some of their, um, either employees or to their customers.
[26:12] Lisa Franco: That they can come back to Cedar Run and it's completely free with their sponsorship. They like that. That's something that that they feel like they can then share with their community to show, you know, this is what we support as an organization or an individual, they might care more about receiving a video of our Fox and her doing some kind of enrichment because they donated towards her enclosure, or getting a private tour with myself and our executive director or seeing an education program.
[26:40] Lisa Franco: So I think it's just really making sure that you're understanding who you're speaking with. And then even with the individuals, some individuals don't really want anything. They don't, they just are like, Hey, I just want to give you my money and like, don't talk to me, don't do anything. Like, I don't need any paper. Like, and those are all learning things too. But again, yeah, I, we kind of have to understand where they're coming from and
[27:02] Lisa Franco: If they don't want that, that's perfectly fine. Or it's actually easier. Um, but it's just kind of trying to find a good balance and making sure that we're honoring what they want, while also trying to celebrate what they're giving. Mm
[27:18] Dave Charest: hm. Can you walk me through, I guess some of the things that you're doing from a marketing perspective? I mean, obviously, we know you're doing, you know, email and social, as you mentioned, but what else is entailed? Like, what are you doing offline and there are other things you're doing online?
[27:31] Lisa Franco: Yeah, so we will do a lot of in-person, um, tabling at different festivals, um, throughout New Jersey. Well, we'll just bring a table and set up whether it's brochures or we have some taxidermy that people can come and feel cause you can't touch any of our animals. If I have an educator with me or if I'm
[27:49] Lisa Franco: to bring an animal, I can do reptiles, um, and our turtles and our snakes and our turtles. And then if I have an educator present, we can even bring some of our birds or our skunk. Some of our animals are education animals, so they're able to travel with, um, our education team.
[28:07] Dave Charest: What type of events were these?
[28:08] Dave Charest: Did you mention? So
[28:09] Lisa Franco: these are like different festivals that we'll do. The education team will also just do this like for schools and stuff, but for like a marketing aspect, the schools are really booking us. They already know who we are. These are just big festivals. This year, we actually did in Medford. There's an Oktoberfest, so we were able to set up a table and, you know, that's these over 10,000 people. And even though it's in Medford, there were counts.
[28:31] Lisa Franco: People who came up to our table who were like, I had no idea you guys were right in Medford. So those are kind of that word of mouth. And that, that tends to be our best way of marketing is because they're seeing us, they're talking to us, they're being able to ask us questions about a bird that was in their yard or why they have a groundhog that lives under their shed and feeling like they have a connection and that's what's gonna help them remember us.
[28:55] Lisa Franco: The other components we do is, um, we do mailers, so we do have some appeals that we send out. We also do some like segmented appeals that we started this year to kind of, you know, see in the community who doesn't know about us. Let's send them a 3 day pass. Let's send them a brochure and tell them about who we are.
[29:13] Lisa Franco: And, you know, those work really well for us. Those, we still get donations in the mail, we still receive checks, we still receive cash. It's not all through online, like some people might think. We also do a quarterly newsletter, so that's just to share stories about either a spotlight on or donor or just an education piece.
[29:31] Dave Charest: That's a digital newsletter or or is that a printed newsletter?
[29:35] Lisa Franco: It's a male. OK,
[29:36] Dave Charest: gotcha.
[29:36] Lisa Franco: Yeah, so it's a printed one that we mail out, and then it is available, um, digitally like on our website. But, um, it's most like it's a printed one, and then we'll give them out to people that come to the refuge as well. And then obviously, social media is a big thing. So we do Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn the most. We're, we're in TikTok, but we're still learning TikTok.
[30:00] Lisa Franco: I would say Facebook and Instagram have been the best for us. We're newly into the videos. And then, uh, the last couple of years, we've also done weddings on site. So, yeah, it's a, it's a new venture for us and we're excited to be able to kind of share that with people, but that was a whole new marketing game. So we're able to this year.
[30:19] Dave Charest: I was gonna
[30:20] Dave Charest: say like that, that's got to introduce a whole other set of challenges.
[30:23] Dave Charest: Right, because you've got to not only make people aware of the facility, but then you've got to make people aware of a whole other service that you offer, right? So what's that been like? Yeah. It's
[30:33] Lisa Franco: been interesting. So I was overseeing the weddings all last year and this year, and then I passed it off to, um, our nature center manager, Ashley, and she's doing a great job. She actually got married on site, so I think she's a better fit. She definitely knows the wedding, the wedding game.
[30:47] Lisa Franco: It was challenging, I think, at first, just for to get people to understand, like, that you can get married here, but that it comes with some stipulations. You know, it's an outdoor facility. We don't really have anything indoors at the time last year, we didn't have anything super covered to be married under. So if it rained, it was kind of like
[31:06] Lisa Franco: We don't, we can't really do a rain date. We can't, you know, there's a lot of things that we can't offer as like a big facility. But we are, you know, the donation that you're making, I will say we are on the much affordable side. To book a wedding at the time, it was about $2600 for a full facility rental. So, you know, obviously heard about other places that are much
[31:28] Lisa Franco: More expensive. So the people who are coming to us though are really looking for either an outdoor wedding or to really give back to something, you know, starting their journey with their partner in something that's giving back to not just a public hall or, you know, a church or something like that. They want to give to something that, you know, might be a little different type of meaning for them. And the challenges to market that, I think, was like,
[31:52] Lisa Franco: People still didn't know what exactly we could offer, so I created this year an actual wedding packet, and we launched that and we were able to have, I think we had 7 weddings this year on site. Um, we just had our last one last weekend.
[32:06] Lisa Franco: And then, um, this upcoming year, we're excited because in the spring, we were able to launch on the knot. So the knot was, you know, a really cool, um, way for us to kind of get our word out that we are a wedding venue. And it has been really like helpful for us. That was a great marketing tool for us. Like, our social media was only doing so much. We're only reaching the people who already follow us. We kind of need a whole new demographic. And the cool thing about bringing in weddings was it was bringing in a new demographic.
[32:36] Lisa Franco: that we've never seen before. So we see, typically our donors are of the, you know, upper age. They are a little bit older, predominantly female. They're already married. They already have kids. Um, we're not really seeing my generation, the millennials, the Gen Z's. And we were like, how do we target them? Because they're the ones who are going to be our reoccurring donors. They're the ones who are going to be here in the long term. Um, you know, when things as, as we start to progress in just like years to come.
[33:07] Lisa Franco: And weddings was, I thought, such a good answer. You know, who's getting married? It's people my age, people who are in their 30s, their early 20s, and they're the ones right now since pandemic too, they who want to be outside, they want to give back to the community. They care about wildlife, they care about the environment. So we've seen
[33:26] Lisa Franco: Such a cool new way of, of interacting with that demographic. And to be honest, even being in that demographic is very hard to target because I'm like, I don't know what they want. Like, I, we're all so different. Um, but the, to be able to offer them a membership and some somewhere to go to kind of remember that special day is, you know, something they really enjoy and they end up becoming every wedding we've had, they've all become.
[33:50] Lisa Franco: Somehow connected to us, whether they're a volunteer, or they're a recurring donor, or they come and bring donations for the wildlife Hospital, they're somehow tied to it past their their wedding date.
[34:03] Dave Charest: What do you find most challenging about
[34:04] Dave Charest: marketing?
[34:06] Lisa Franco: There's no guarantee.
[34:08] Lisa Franco: And I think, especially nowadays, not being able to offer something tangible for us, it is a challenge, you know, it's, it's hard for us to keep up. There's only so many stickers we could print, and people are becoming so diverse. There's
[34:26] Lisa Franco: Certain demographics as you look into the different generations and you're like, Oh, well, this generation loves mail, and this generation loves phone calls. I don't really like that anymore. They're everybody is so different and some people still like phone calls, some people like emails and being able to keep up with that and constantly be on the, the up and up on what's
[34:49] Lisa Franco: Occurring and and AI coming out now. AI can be such a great tool, but it also can be a little detrimental, you know, like it's gonna, could potentially take some people's jobs. And I think that can be a little alarming, the way technology is being used. I personally and our team likes to use AI as kind of your sidekick. Like, I already have a really good idea.
[35:12] Lisa Franco: I just need a little extra help where I'm having writer's block. But I don't want them to write the whole thing for me. I'm not like, hey, write me a whole thing about this. Like, I still want to sound like I. Um, and I have found the best type of marketing is just being genuine. And for us, it's so easy to be genuine because our mission is a good cause. There's nothing really that's bad about it. I mean,
[35:36] Lisa Franco: Everyone loves animals. Animals are needed, and it's affecting our community right in your backyard. It's animals that you see every single day that you want to know more about and, you know, we encourage to analyze from afar. Observe from your backyard. Please don't touch.
[35:57] Dave Charest: So with this challenge, of course, of, you know, there are, everyone is so different and so scattered that you can't just pick one thing and kind of go with what it means you have to.
[36:06] Dave Charest: Kind of do a lot of things, right, to kind of spread that net. So, I guess the the question is, how do you actually approach getting things done, right? Like, like the things that you have to do to to be in all of those places.
[36:20] Dave Charest: I guess who's involved and then how do you actually approach making sure that the stuff happens.
[36:26] Lisa Franco: Yeah. I think having a good team that, you know, can prioritize the certain things that need to be done. And even if they don't have a marketing background, having them understand why it's important to kind of push forward. I do think it's also having priorities. A lot of times, you know, and we've gotten into this where it's like,
[36:43] Lisa Franco: Well, let's just sign up for everything. Let's give them every single option to be able to donate to us so that they can't say now. And, but then on the reverse side, that's like 17 different things we have to manage. And we're, uh, my development team is a team of 3 people. There's no way for us to all manage that. So it's a little bit like making sure that you're picking and choosing what's actually a priority and it's going to be fruitful. But then also knowing that you're going to make mistakes.
[37:12] Lisa Franco: You know, I'm a really big advocate for mistakes. I think that, you know, that's the only way that we tend to learn things is by making a mistake. And that, for me, I mean, just personally, I feel like I will only grow if I'm constantly learning. And I will only learn things if I'm understanding why to do certain things or not do certain things. So in, especially with the nonprofit world, it's such a
[37:37] Lisa Franco: A, a difficult thing when you're not selling a product that you're like, should I take this risk because this is, you know, amount of money that could go towards something else. And that whole, you know, you have to spend money to make money. There definitely has to be a balance with that with a nonprofit. And so I think taking certain risks, but also understanding, we can't do that right now. I can't sign up for another way to give, even if, even if they're saying it's gonna be really fruitful. It's like,
[38:03] Lisa Franco: We have to manage what we already have. And really turning to the people who already support us and really making sure that they feel steward. Like, we, we want to say we have, let's say we have, you know, 1500 great supporters. If we're not utilizing them, like, and just constantly trying to add more and more and more, when does it get to a point where they're just becoming a transaction, they're just becoming a number. And that's not something that we want to do.
[38:28] Lisa Franco: We're not just looking to have 20,000 people support us. We're looking to have people who really care about what we do. And, you know, in every single outlet, it's not just giving money. It's coming out to our events and seeing the animals. And, you know, our wildlife that live with us, they don't want to see us all the time. They want to see new people. They're, that's part of their enrichment. Um, that's part of them being able to feel like they're still a part of, uh, their ecosystem and community as well, as much as
[38:54] Lisa Franco: You know, animals have, you know, different mindsets than we do. They do still need a lot of the same things that we need. So I think just really making sure that you're kind of targeting what is purposeful is the most important, at least for my team.
[39:08] Dave Charest: So how do you use Constant Contact as a part of supporting the efforts that you're, that you're doing?
[39:15] Lisa Franco: So, when I first started with Constant Contact, I actually, we, so they weren't using Constant Contact, they were using like MailChimp or something for their emails, and they weren't proceed on.
[39:24] Lisa Franco: Wasn't doing emails as consistently as I decided to do. So when I started as the development coordinator, I took over all the communications, digital. I had used Constant Contact at my previous job, so I just was like, I think we should sign up for that. It's the easiest platform. And I decided to kind of map out what kind of emails I wanted to do. So I decided to do one that was all about our events once a month.
[39:45] Lisa Franco: And then always have some kind of educational one that's not asking for money, it's not asking for them to sign up. It's literally just giving them cool information or a cool story. And then one that is kind of an ask, it's, you know, donate for this, or, you know, we need eggs, or we, you know, have this new program. Um, I think segmenting them to be able to show how diverse we are and what we do offer and not forgetting the fun side of, I'm not trying to ask you for any money. I just want you to read this really cool information about this great corned owl.
[40:16] Lisa Franco: And then we were able to start incorporating different things, whether it was like our blog on our website, or different sponsorship opportunities, building lists of like, you know, signing up people for our yoga or for our night hikes, um, and really like segmenting those things. And then even being able to link our Shopify, we have a gift shop in our nature center. So, featuring, you know, new local things that we have in our nature center. Our nature center manager actually, she curates.
[40:42] Lisa Franco: Our nature center so perfectly that it's all fair trade or local, and people will come in just to go to the gift shop. And it's, you know, becomes such a cool destination spot for people to buy really cool nature things. And so being able to, to put them on our emails and link it right there and people can order it. Um, we've seen so many purchases come through for that. And then our donations, honestly, especially this year.
[41:09] Lisa Franco: Using email, we couldn't believe how much it changed the game for us. Like, being able to click one button and take you to one page to do a very quick donation, opposed to sending you to our website to then go find the donation button or comment. Like, it's made it so convenient. And at the end of the day, especially with our phones, that is what people want. They don't want to click 100 times. By the time they're on that 4th.
[41:32] Lisa Franco: Like, uh, what was I even doing? I'm not doing it anymore. So Constant Contact has made it very easy to be able to do that and to, you know, kind of spread that awareness and people want to cut back on paper. And so getting those emails and making sure that I'm figuring out the right times to get those emails in and not overdoing my emails, which sometimes I feel like I am, but people love them. So I'm like, All right, I'll keep sending them to you.
[41:57] Dave Charest: Well, how important is the, you know, you mentioned that idea. I I love what you're doing in terms of just thinking like the different types of emails that you want to send. How do you strike the right balance of like the educational type stuff versus like the asking stuff, right? Like how do you find
[42:11] Dave Charest: Have you found one or is that just you kind of work your way into it?
[42:15] Lisa Franco: I feel
[42:15] Lisa Franco: like I work my way into it mostly, but I do find that we're starting to get a better balance. I think during baby season, it can be difficult because we're like, man, we're like seeing a lot of animals right now. We might have to do two more apps than we normally do. But I think it also means like, not just using the email. At that point, then I'm like, OK, we need to turn to something else. We need to turn to making our donor calls or doing a festival or something like that, because I also don't want people unsubscribing.
[42:41] Lisa Franco: And we do, we get on subscribers, but we want to try and keep those people happy with the information. So, I really think just kind of playing it by ear almost and seeing what information is coming through. At this point, I guess we've been with Constant Contact almost 3 years. So it's still, you know, some learning, but I think we've got a pretty good flow and, and being able to segment those 3 different, or like even adding on different ones, depending on the season or depending on what's in the works of baby season, knowing the information that people want to hear.
[43:10] Lisa Franco: Really helps.
[43:12] Dave Charest: Are you doing any other types of segmentation just in terms, I know you have the different types of emails that you send, but are you also thinking about like different groups of people? So my example, right, would be.
[43:21] Dave Charest: I mean, you have staff internally, you have volunteers, you have local community people, like, are you also segmenting in those ways? Yeah,
[43:28] Lisa Franco: so we'll do segmented emails for businesses, like, we'll actually change the information, um, in some ways to, like, if you see wildlife at your business versus your home or obviously sponsorships and and things like that, but then we'll also do ones that are specifically for people who sign up for summer camp.
[43:45] Lisa Franco: For people who specifically want to donate to the environment. As much as the environment and animals are so intertwined, there are people who really don't care about the animal portion or who really only care about the animal portion. So those are new things that we're actually doing more recently this year. Um, we switched our donor-based system, so we were able to launch with Blackbo Razor's Edge this year. So we were on a very old donor system.
[44:09] Lisa Franco: Called DonorSnap, which I don't think most people even know what it is. But, um, we were able to move into Blackbaud and that has been a kind of a game changer for us, you know, that really being able to see who we have in our database from the 90s is a really cool thing for us and really cleaning up our data. Our data hadn't been cleaned up in a really long time.
[44:29] Lisa Franco: Um, and we have our database coordinator. She completely oversees the entire database, um, who's on the development team and she's done such a great job. And so I feel like we're moving along. We're finally getting up to the times. Um, before, you know, 2020, we were still using a paper and pad to check people in at just the nature center. So even just having Shopify was a new thing for us. So I think we're still kind of in that learning curve as well with things, but.
[44:56] Dave Charest: Well, what would you say are some of the notable results that you've seen from, you know, using constant contact?
[45:02] Lisa Franco: Um, I think just the people actually reading our stories, you know, social media tends to, one, you can only say so much. So if you post too much, like of a very long story, and we tend to have a lot to say, so like, learn about this fact and this cool thing.
[45:16] Lisa Franco: And then also this, and also this, and also this, the emails, we can put so much information and people want to read them. I love that Constant Contact can tell me when people click on certain links because I can tell, I'm like, Oh, they went to the bottom of the email. That means they finished the whole email. Um, and that's a really cool way for us to be able to gauge, you know, what information people want to read.
[45:36] Lisa Franco: And then, honestly, the donate button. Um, we have seen so many people donate through email versus any other platform. We did our, we do a formula fundraiser every year, and it's to help with our cost of baby formula for, for baby season. And this year, I think our goal was $6000 and we far surpassed it. I think we ended up making $8000 and it was predominantly from the email.
[46:02] Lisa Franco: Um, we had sent out multiple emails. My last one was we were $2000 away from the $6000 and we ended up getting an extra $4000 just from two emails that I sent out from Constant Contact. And I think it was being able to put in really cool graphics. Other email builders do not let you do that. We have an email builder with Blackbaud, and they do not make let us do the kind of things that
[46:22] Lisa Franco: That you guys can do. And they're an amazing system. They're one of the best donor systems you can have, but their email just doesn't do what Constant Contact can do. So it's really being able to utilize the tools that you guys offer and making it that, like, very visually appealing, and it's easy to scroll. It shows up on all the, you know, people's phones very nice.
[46:42] Lisa Franco: Nicely and making it really easy. So the donation aspect of it was honestly surprising for us, because we, we didn't really think we thought emails are great. That's awesome. Like, it's a good touch source, but we didn't, we're not going to get anything out of it. And when we actually started seeing results of incoming donations, we were like, wait, I think we need to do this way more. Even just reminders, like, you know, we will send a paper appeal, but now we send emails saying, Did you see us in your mail? Did you forget?
[47:10] Lisa Franco: And being able to just send that extra touch point and that's not a mailer that somebody's gonna leave on their desk or, you know, put it in their recycling bin. It's in their mailbox or it's in their email that they open pretty much every day.
[47:22] Dave Charest: What have you been seeing using the Shopify integration?
[47:26] Lisa Franco: I think it's just like being able to see like new products that people are excited to see, and they're shopping a little bit more online. With us, we don't see too many online orders just because the local community likes to come to the Nature Center. But we have seen an increase. I mean, I think during the holiday season, we'll get orders over $100. And I think in one month, one time we made like $1200.
[47:49] Lisa Franco: Of our Shopify, which, you know, it might not seem like a big number to some people, but for us it is, you know, some of our products are only like 5 to $10. So to, to be able to make $1200 just off an email and Shopify, that's not including our daily that we just make in our nature center. I I was just adding two links of a new honey that we have in. Um, that's a really easy way to kind of build in that.
[48:11] Lisa Franco: And it's already, it's already made for us. All we have to do is literally drop in the, the little box, add the, the product that's already on Shopify. You don't really have to add a picture or anything. It already links to it. It's so simple. And the best thing about the Shopify and even just constant conflict in general, if you do not have a marketing background, if you don't have a design background, you can use Constant.
[48:35] Lisa Franco: Like it is so user friendly. For me, I'm the only one on my team that has a marketing background. We just got an intern that has a graphic design background. So prior to her, it was just me doing all the graphic design work. And, but my, my nature center manager, the Nature Center team, all of them can do constant contact emails or, you know, building that because it is so template and easy-based.
[48:57] Dave Charest: Lisa, what advice would you have for maybe a similar nonprofit organization considering marketing tools like Constant Contact?
[49:05] Lisa Franco: I think to keep an open mind, to really, and to try new things, I think that there are, like I said, so many people that stay in that routine and don't understand the importance of digital marketing.
[49:18] Lisa Franco: And unfortunately, that in some ways, it, it can, you know, be a little daunting, but like that is the age that we're moving towards. And in some capacities, it is a little better for the environment. You're able to push out information a lot faster. So I really think, you know, being open to some of these new ways but still keeping.
[49:36] Lisa Franco: Your mission now. Don't go against what you believe in, just so that you can utilize a new source. Find that balance to make sure that you're staying true to your organization's mission. But be open-minded that it can work and it can be easy to learn. And once you learn it, it really is a game changer.
[49:56] Dave Charest: Well, friend, let's recap some items from that discussion. Number 1, segment your email list based on audience interest. Lisa sends three core types of emails, event updates, educational stories, and fundraising appeals. But she's also using segmentation for summer camp parents, business sponsors, and people who care more about animals versus the environment. The key, tailoring messages to what people care about most.
[50:25] Dave Charest: Number 2, use storytelling to build connection and drive action. Lisa shares real patient stories like the groundhog rescued from a mason jar lid or the kestrel that went on to have babies after rehab. These aren't just updates, they're emotional hooks that inspire support. You can do the same by connecting what you offer to the impact it has.
[50:51] Dave Charest: Number 3, don't do everything. Do what's purposeful. As a team managing development and marketing, Lisa emphasized prioritization. She avoids shiny object syndrome and focuses on tools and tactics that align with Cedar Run's mission and limited resources. It's a good reminder for all marketers. More isn't always better. Impact matters most.
[51:19] Dave Charest: So here's your action item for today. Create an educational email that doesn't ask for anything. Just provide something helpful, inspiring, or insightful. Feeling stuck, of course, you can try Constant Contact's AI content generator to help you draft a quick story, highlight a fun fact, or share a behind the scenes look. Remember, no ask, just add value.
[51:48] Dave Charest: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review. Just go to ratethispodcast.com/BAM. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's ratethispodcast.com/BAM. Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.