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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
Tyson (00:00.988)
before the start. Oh man I was just saying before I hit record it's I'd heard about you through I was gonna say a mutual friend but I guess he's more family Scotty a friend of mine so I met Scotty in London back in like 2017 and I think he just started some big fitness campaign but I don't reckon he was in marathon running form and he told me over the last couple of years that he's been getting fitter and fitter and then I saw up at the Gold Coast the other day
Ella Higgins (00:11.244)
Yep.
Ella Higgins (00:16.234)
Yeah.
Tyson (00:29.08)
He posted a finished photo and he'd run like three hours eight. I was like dude. That's a great run He's like, yeah. Yeah, my sister-in-law ran 239. I was like mate like No one's running 239 and I haven't heard about him yet. What happened there? And you just told me it was like a 15 minute PB. So give me a bit of a Overview of the last couple of years because it sounds like things have been going pretty well
Ella Higgins (00:51.366)
Yeah, yeah. So, so it's been a bit of it's been a bit of a process, as you'd imagine, but
Yeah, so only a year ago, I did the in, I did Canberra at the beginning of last year, and it was a terrible race. I was aiming for a lot faster and I did 254 then I think. So that was at the time my PB, but I was, I was hoping to be a lot quicker than that. And I just had a terrible day. And then I'd done Sydney before and I did that.
also in a similar time, that was pre-kids. So this is post-kids now. And then I did Melbourne in October last year, was aiming for quite a big PB again, and I went off course at the end. So there's a loop at the very end of Melbourne, and I got caught up in the half marathoners.
Tyson (01:57.245)
Yep.
Ella Higgins (01:59.762)
and just went straight instead of taking the loop. And then I found myself in the stadium and looked at my watch and I was like, oh my God, I'm only at 39 Ks. What has happened? I had no idea what had happened. I just thought like, maybe my watch is out. But then I looked at the time on my watch and it said to 29 or something. And I was like, well, I haven't just won. Like I'm not the first female.
Tyson (02:00.16)
Ah.
Tyson (02:09.321)
Oh.
Ella Higgins (02:29.482)
So I was sort of on track for about a 240 for that day. But then obviously, yeah, like I was full of fire after that, because I thought, OK, I was kind of expecting more of a 245. And then I had just an amazing day. And so it kind of got into my head that maybe I can do a sub 240. And then, yes, I was like, OK, want a fast flat?
Tyson (02:53.318)
Wow.
Ella Higgins (02:59.038)
marathon, Gold Coast is it, you know, talking to my coach and a couple of the other people I train with. We all decided Gold Coast and so I just wanted to be like, you know what, just get the sub 240, 239.59 is fine. Just, yeah, so then and then I got it. So stoked, absolutely stoked.
Tyson (03:20.134)
Wow That arm that Melbourne Marathon experience sounds like a nightmare I've had that experience before where I've run off course But it's only ever been in club runs But I've seen I've seen like if there's one bit of criticism Melbourne Marathon seems to get it's about splitting up that half marathon with the marathon runners and usually it's because
Ella Higgins (03:23.886)
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (03:38.144)
Yeah.
Tyson (03:40.78)
people are just getting in each other's way. But I know the exact extra loop that you're talking about. So what happened there? Like, did you end up finishing the race or did you figure out what had gone wrong?
Ella Higgins (03:44.214)
Yeah. I figured it out and I just thought there's no point in me running back and doing it. It was just, I just, yeah, I was just like, right, well, this isn't my day. I'm just, I'm finishing it and I'll, and I'll come back and I'll, I'll get it properly. Because I mean, it would have taken me
Ella Higgins (04:12.626)
Yeah, it didn't even occur to me actually. I just finished the race. I saw my coach. He's like, what happened? And it took me ages to actually realize what had happened. I didn't, I didn't realize. And then, yeah, then my other, my other friends came through and they're like, oh, you must have not missed the loop, which was totally my fault because I hadn't fully, you know, looked at the course properly, realized that the half marathon is going to be there. And I just got, you know, like it.
whatever it would have been 34k's in or something and I was just like in that zone. So I was just running you know trying to dodge the half marathoners and then I just didn't I missed it. It was devastating. Um no no.
Tyson (04:55.546)
Oh My gosh, are you running are you running Melbourne this year? No, I would have loved to have seen you come back and do it I'm supposed to be running but I've got a well, I didn't realize I didn't realize it sold out four months early So I hadn't I hadn't even registered. I hadn't even thought about registering But I think I might I'll still try and sneak one, but I'm gonna do Gold Coast next year as well
Ella Higgins (05:04.193)
Uh...
Ella Higgins (05:10.864)
Oh, no. Yeah.
Ella Higgins (05:15.987)
No.
Tyson (05:16.088)
So how long have you been running for then? Because even though you said last year in Canberra, you were expecting to run a lot faster than what you did, but no one's really running 15 minute PB. That must be a crazy, it's cool because I'd love to hear more about your story because 15 minute PB suggests, all right, well, you're not just running the 15 minute PB and okay, it's just done and dusted. That's where you are. 15 minute PB suggests there's probably still a little bit more in the tank or a lot more in the tank. So.
Ella Higgins (05:32.582)
Yeah.
Tyson (05:44.104)
I'm excited to hear your thoughts on like what you're thinking. Have you got your eyes on international teams now or where's your headspace at? In, because if you're running two 39, like you had Jen run two 28, but she's been in the game for forever now. So it's probably not that much of a surprise. Are you starting to like, how realistic is that two 30 to you at the moment? Where are you at in terms of your headspace? Cause from where I sit a race like that seems to open up so many possibilities about.
where you might head in the running world.
Ella Higgins (06:15.023)
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, to go back to your first.
part of the question, where have I come from and everything. I was very much a trail runner at the beginning. So I've been sort of running seriously with my coach for maybe 10 or 11 years. Well, like seriously as in with a coach, with a program and all that. But I started off in the trail world. And so I've done quite a lot of the, you know, like Six Foot and the UTAs and a couple of other.
of those like tarot we're and stuff. So I did that and then basically I changed pathways during COVID and the bushfires actually the bushfires started, it took me off the trails and onto the road and then in during COVID I just got more excited about road running. So like still previous to that I had done the Sydney.
I had done Sydney in 254, but that was sort of amongst training for trail stuff. So, yeah, I guess during COVID, I just started ticking off faster times, doing a few little just time trials and seeing my splits getting faster and faster. So I sort of, it was then when I started to get a bit addicted to the times and like seeing where I could go.
It made sense to go down the marathon, get a good fast marathon time. And that was sort of with my coach, like he's guided me through, OK, I can see that this is what you're doing and I can see you can do a really good road marathon. So let's give it a go. And and yes, I was I was really enjoying doing all the road stuff. So, yes, so then I guess then I did that. So then I did Canberra.
And yeah, that was a massive disappointing race because it was basically the same time as what I'd done when I was not really focused on road. And I knew, like I knew that wasn't my time. So then I just got addicted to this idea of seeing what I could do. And I guess then it just, you know, my, like I did CD to surf last year and started seeing those results.
So in some ways it wasn't that much of a surprise that I got the 15 minute PB because I could see it in all the other races in the half marathon and yeah so yeah.
Tyson (08:50.908)
Hmm. So what happened in Canberra last year? What caused it to be such a bad run for you? Just one of those days?
Ella Higgins (09:00.318)
I think it was just one of those days, it was also on the back of, I'd actually been training for six foot and then six foot got cancelled because of all the flooding and then all of a sudden I had to continue, like and that was only, I can't remember exactly but I think it was only about two weeks out from the race or three or not long before the race. So I then had to kind of transfer that training over.
without really tapering and getting the benefit of the rest. So I actually think it was probably a combination of just not my day, but also just maybe too much of a training slog going from the six foot training and then into road. And yeah, I think I was just tired, I think.
Tyson (09:52.729)
Yeah. So, from the outset of that run, were you kind of running with heavy legs? Did you know pretty early in that race at Canberra that today's not the day?
Ella Higgins (09:59.119)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, like, oddly enough, even though I had trained for six foot, I felt like the little heels were doing my head in, in camera. I was like, it's too hilly. Which is really weird, because, yeah, I was I was six foot fit only eight weeks before or something.
Tyson (10:14.032)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ella Higgins (10:23.778)
But it was just with that pace. I just didn't, yeah, I don't know. I haven't, you know, we've sort of, my coach and I, we've discussed it. It's still a bit of a mystery why that race wasn't such a good day, but we just came to the conclusion it just wasn't my day, move on. And yeah, so then.
Tyson (10:42.588)
So going into this race up at Gold Coast, so it sounds like that's the beauty of doing some sessions and monitoring the times and seeing the progress. You probably had a, as you said, like a pretty good idea that you could run really quickly, but people like me on the outside hadn't had any insight into that training or seeing anything. So when I saw that final result, I was just mind blown. I was pumped. And then when I found out there was just like a couple of degrees of separation and Scotty messaged me, I was like, oh my gosh, this just got more exciting. So.
Ella Higgins (10:50.795)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (10:56.382)
Yep. Yes.
Ella Higgins (11:08.488)
Yeah.
Tyson (11:10.092)
Like give us a little bit of an overview of the training going into Gold Coast. What kind of miles are you running? And you, um, I mean, I guess I can boil down some of the other questions I've got for you after that, but in terms of structure and in terms of distance, what do your weeks look like at the moment? Or maybe not at the moment. Sorry. Maybe in the lead up, you know what I mean?
Ella Higgins (11:25.405)
I think it's yeah not yeah at the moment it is very much jogging and eating and indulging but so before that I think it would I guess it's pretty typical just I have the one day off which is Mondays for me Tuesdays and Thursdays I train with TRT my running group
Tyson (11:34.302)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (11:50.282)
locally and we do, yeah, like the tempos and the speed work. Then Wednesdays are a longish run, like a 24K over hills. And then the Friday is a bit of an easier run. Saturday may be like a longer tempo and then Sunday long run. So I basically,
was 121 30k weeks. Yeah and about a yeah actually probably a 10 week kind of progression into the marathon. But yeah I mean before I'd started doing it was at just in the nick of time that I started training for Gold Coast because I had been struggling with a bit of a
Achilles problem and knee problem for the first part of the year. So actually I didn't know if I'd get to Gold Coast because yeah I just didn't know if my body would pull through and then it kind of just about 12 weeks out suddenly I was thinking okay actually I think I could do this so yeah so it was yeah like I don't do
It's all relative, but I feel like 121.30 is not crazy case, but it felt it was definitely the most I had done in preparation for any event. So it felt it felt good, though, to do that. Yeah.
Tyson (13:34.171)
Yeah. And that Sunday long run, how far are you running on the Sundays? I know this is probably something that alternated or increased as you got closer to race day, but like what was your sort of start point and what was your longest run pre Gold Coast?
Ella Higgins (13:38.882)
Uh-uh.
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (13:48.602)
Um, I was doing, I think I'd started at about two hours 20, so more going off time. And then I was, um, 35 K's. I did maybe like, um, five or six weeks of 35 K. Um, yeah.
Tyson (14:10.204)
Yeah, that's good. That's a good chunk. And are you doing, cause it's been interesting cause I have come off a track background, my focus when I was actually competing was on the track. So the marathon, it's like a new beast to me. So I've been really enjoying these conversations, especially because for my own selfish reasons, I'm starting to dip my toes in the water of marathon running, uh, but it's, it's such an art form. I mean, I understand, um, training structures, but for me on a personal level,
Ella Higgins (14:20.657)
Okay.
Ella Higgins (14:23.851)
Yeah.
Tyson (14:38.2)
just trying to understand how I can get my body from, you know, the background that I've had to run a decent marathon has been an interesting little project. And the Sunday long runs has been one that's fascinated me because until probably 18 months ago, I would have had no idea that there was such a focus on, for some athletes, including not a mini session, but some form of a session within that Sunday long run. So is that something that you were doing? Were you doing any race pace style work or faster within that long run or your two sessions?
during the week was where you went for your pace and your more intense style work.
Ella Higgins (15:11.622)
Yeah, yeah. So we, yeah, I kept the Sunday long runs pretty easy. Like I think a couple of them, I would do maybe 20 to 30 minutes, but not at race pace even just like picking it up. Maybe, yeah, to like four minute pace or whatever, just for a little chunk. So yeah, and that was...
like my coach is the mastermind behind all of this. I don't really think for myself, but he wanted to keep the long runs just pretty easy running and stick with those Tuesday, Thursdays, and then the Saturday just incorporating more of a longer style tempo. Yeah.
Tyson (16:00.552)
Sure. There's something to be said for that actually. So, okay. So essentially you're still having three relatively solid hit acts within the week because that's one thing I've been trying to navigate my way through is I used to always do the three sessions as well. The Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, similar style of sessions it sounds like to what you're doing. It's a very popular for international listeners. It's like a very popular structure to the Australian training week. But the...
Ella Higgins (16:07.467)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (16:17.558)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (16:24.556)
Yeah.
Tyson (16:27.396)
The one thing that I started to notice, and especially me who's just gradually increasing the Ks again after a few years out of the sport, I've just got to be careful that I don't just get too obsessed and jump straight back into like a really intense training week. So I was kind of thinking that I might include a little bit of that faster pace work on the Sunday run, and then use that as almost like my session for the week. But ideally I like the structure that you have, because it's nice to be able to, and I assume in your tempos or
Ella Higgins (16:41.709)
Yeah.
Tyson (16:56.524)
Maybe that Tuesday session, you're doing some work, which is much, well, if not race pace, probably, probably quicker than your marathon race pace.
Ella Higgins (17:04.498)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, mainly the Tuesday, Thursdays I'd be doing. I mean, not, not crazy. Like, I think a lot of it was actually just getting comfortable with running at marathon pace. That was the intention. I often did probably go a bit faster because you are doing it in smaller, you know, increments. So you do feel like, you know, what does marathon pace feel like? Well,
Tyson (17:06.664)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (17:32.778)
when you're at the beginning of your workout, marathon pace, you know, is faster because you're fresh. Whereas does it feel, you know, when you're 30 Ks into a marathon, what does marathon feel like? But, so I probably ran a little bit faster in some of those sessions, but actually the intent was more getting comfortable with running at our, you know, designated marathon pace. Yeah.
Tyson (17:39.798)
Yeah.
Tyson (18:00.485)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense it's not it's hard to replicate isn't it that feeling of being 30 K's into a Marathon Pat Tiernan was on here a while ago. And one thing he said which I found really interesting was Aerobically in his first marathon he debuted I think it was Chicago off the top of my head and he ran like a 2 hour 11 first marathon Which I thought was it's just crazy. Yeah, your laughs suggest you probably agree
Ella Higgins (18:03.969)
Yes.
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (18:19.705)
That's fine.
Tyson (18:23.264)
And one thing he said to me was he just felt like his legs needed to be weathered a little bit more during training. He'd done a lot of his training on softer surfaces and he had a couple of ideas around how he was going to replicate what he was trying to, like replicate that race feeling. And one thing for him was maybe in the Sunday long run, just making the last 10 Ks of that run, be a pretty much just on, on asphalt or
Ella Higgins (18:28.734)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (18:32.268)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (18:39.787)
Yeah.
Tyson (18:49.188)
concrete or something just to beat his legs up a little bit. I thought that was an interesting point. Um, with your Sunday long runs, are you usually running? I know you said that, uh, you're not going out and, um, Replicating or simulating race pace specifically. Um, but you keeping those runs more easy. Are those easier runs? Like what kind of pace are you getting through those, those runs at the Sunday long runs?
Ella Higgins (18:49.217)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (19:14.294)
Look probably Averaging 434 40s So and you know like it takes me ages to warm up so like the first couple of K's might be Super like 530 pace and then just building into it and then I might get down to the 420s by the end but yeah, nothing crazy just Just flowing More about getting that the case in the legs
and just sort of ticking the box rather than trying to break any records. And I think because also just, you know, that was getting up to the 130k weeks is more than I'd done before. So you've got to just be smart about where you're putting...
Tyson (19:53.412)
Uh...
Ella Higgins (20:09.982)
your efforts and thinking about what you're trying to get from that day of training. Yeah.
Tyson (20:15.517)
Yeah, yeah, that's well said. That's a good point. And are you doing much strength work outside of the running work? Is there any forms of cross training that you're doing to help your body stay in shape or is it mostly the running?
Ella Higgins (20:29.786)
It's mostly running which is not great. Like I have all these ambitions to do more strength. I had to do a bit more strength at the beginning of the year because I was injured and you know like it's just this thing where like I think a lot of people can recognize that it's hard to when you don't feel like you have to do the strength it's easy to just go okay I've run 30k today that'll do.
Tyson (20:57.389)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (20:59.23)
Um, so, but when I was injured, it just felt like, okay, this is the only way I'm going to get to run is if I can get this injury under control. Um, but to be honest, I was doing like 20 minutes a week of strength. Um, which I, yeah, I don't want to recommend that to anyone. That's just all I could get the energy to do and just having my, you know, cause it's hard to find time with.
like I've got kids and hard to find that time anyway. But it worked for me by the end, I think. I'd be interested to know how, like for the future marathons, like just if I can get myself into even just two sessions a week. I've heard other runners doing, you know, other cross training which I'd also be interested to trial.
Um, but yeah, it's, I'm not sure.
Tyson (22:04.594)
Yeah. One thing that stood out to me when I spoke to Jen Gregson was she was saying that her
This isn't strength training specifically, but she, I think she'd had quite a lot of trouble with Achilles injuries as well, especially a couple of years ago. And she was saying that she had substituted some of her morning runs with like an elliptical session. And what she loved about that was it just allowed her to take some of the pressure off her joints and off her Achilles, but still get that really good cardio workout. So, I mean, I'm definitely not running anywhere near the level that she's at, but I like that idea going into.
Ella Higgins (22:16.055)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (22:24.508)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (22:29.597)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (22:38.492)
Yeah.
Tyson (22:39.384)
the Melbourne marathon just to include maybe a bike session or a elliptical session for the pure reason that you're still getting that workout, but it's not so, not so damaging.
Ella Higgins (22:49.63)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard of that too. I'd be, I'd definitely be interested in incorporating that for sure.
Tyson (22:58.754)
How's your nae and your Achilles going?
Ella Higgins (23:01.422)
Um, it's, it actually good. Um, although in saying that, I went back on just for some easy trail runs since Gold Coast and it's like, hi, I actually am still here. My, you didn't actually sort me out properly. Um, yeah, because I was kind of avoiding like doing too many hills because it was getting aggravated. Um.
So I think that's where the strength work will come back because, yeah, I think that really does help in preventing those sort of injuries. But my Achilles really just pulled through and it sort of came through really quickly. It was like one week I could feel it, it was really bothering me and then like it almost just made a switch and suddenly it was okay.
Tyson (23:57.406)
Yeah, was that in conjunction with like a change from trail to road or what?
I mean that's a beautiful, a beautiful timed little transition into being painful. So not painful, but it's interesting to try and put your finger on what caused that.
Ella Higgins (24:05.654)
Yeah. I know.
Ella Higgins (24:11.486)
Yeah, I honestly couldn't tell you. I was getting help from a physio and had some needling done. Yeah, getting and so maybe it all just came together. It was, yeah, because I'd been off the trail. I'd done some cross-country earlier this year and that was not great for it. But yeah, it's
Tyson (24:36.6)
Yes.
Ella Higgins (24:39.614)
It's again one of those things that just I don't fully understand why it just came through for me. But I was trying to do all the things that I was recommended and I guess the experts knew what they were doing.
Tyson (24:55.005)
They got it right. So what were some of the things that you were doing to help it recover?
Ella Higgins (25:00.134)
Um, yeah, so the, the strength work, um, sticking more flat running, um, pulling back the K's a bit. Um, yeah, like the calf raises and stuff. Although at one point I was, I'm one of those people that if I get told to do something, I will do it. And, um, and they.
And I think my physio didn't kind of realize that I would take it a bit too far, but she was like, okay, do some calf raises and try and do it multiple times a day. Anyway, I was doing it like just out of control too much. And then I think that was when I realized I thought, oh, this is actually just not helping. And then I pulled the calf raises back. And then I was like, okay, I think it's all right now.
Tyson (25:57.063)
Just got excited like a true distance runner thought like a if one's good will do 20 I've got the similar approach Have you got any have you got any? Marathons on the horizon at the moment in terms of like what are you? What are you eyeing off and in terms of what you think you're capable of running right now? Where do you think you're at?
Ella Higgins (25:59.194)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so.
Ella Higgins (26:16.671)
Um, so I, I've thought about, I haven't done an overseas, I haven't done any of the big overseas ones. I'd love to do like a Boston or a London or, you know, one of the big ones where there's like that atmosphere. I've only done like Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra. So it would just be awesome to do that.
But actually my coach and I were talking this morning and some of my other people I trained with and one of the races that popped up was the Ballarat Marathon next year, the new one. So Yeah, that excited me. I think I think that could be good and also just with the idea of like, you know the overseas ones can be amazing, but you're putting a lot of
know, there's a lot in traveling and getting the money and taking the family or not taking the family and I don't necessarily want to be going for PBs and putting that emphasis on it when there's so many variables when you're traveling. So yeah, Ballarat kind of excited me.
Tyson (27:33.61)
Yeah, so what is it about Ballarat? I spent a few years living in Ballarat and I got a soft spot for it. My father-in-law still lives up in Ballarat. We go there a couple of times a year at least. I found out from one of the athletes that I coach that they're going to be holding a Ballarat marathon. And I, is it April? April, yeah. So I'm like...
Ella Higgins (27:38.502)
All right.
Ella Higgins (27:50.239)
Yeah.
Tyson (27:54.8)
I don't know, essentially, I think what I'm gonna say is can you sell it to me? Because I wanna be the biggest ambassador and I wanna share the excitement, but I don't know. I don't know why I'm just not, I think it could be the cold weather. How are we looking in April? It's starting to warm up a little bit. I always like a little bit of sunshine. See, I think the best way for me to stay where I'm at is Gold Coast, hey, bring it on, sunshine, beach, whatever. Like that's a good little, Ballarat, cold, potential rain, very chilly.
Ella Higgins (28:00.992)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (28:11.785)
yet.
Ella Higgins (28:16.116)
Yes.
Ella Higgins (28:23.406)
I'm sorry.
Tyson (28:24.361)
I'm not thinking a super fast course, but sell it to me. What did you like about it? What do you like about it so far?
Ella Higgins (28:29.69)
Oh wow, I feel like you're talking me out of it now.
Tyson (28:32.652)
No, I don't want to do that. I want you to talk me into it.
Ella Higgins (28:35.302)
Okay, well, to be perfectly honest, this was like, and not a very long conversation that I'd had when I got sold to it. I like the idea of doing it with other people that I know. Well, actually I got sold that it would be a fast marathon. I also liked the idea of the fact that, you know, it's a sort of a newer marathon and just trying something a bit different.
Um, and yet it was, um, was it something to do with Comm Games course? Oh yes, the Comm Games course.
Tyson (29:15.309)
Okay, so I don't okay, so I Think you're right. I'm just confused. I saw This is breaking news actually just before I came on here today. I don't think I don't think Melbourne's hosting the games anymore So is that right? So I don't know though like I literally just heard this before probably five minutes before
Ella Higgins (29:17.514)
Am I saying that? Am I? I could be wrong.
Ella Higgins (29:30.27)
Yeah, yeah, so this is, yeah, I think you're right.
Ella Higgins (29:37.43)
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Tyson (29:40.845)
The we even started so I don't know whether that's true or what but is that what it was set out to be? like it's set out to be the game's course
Ella Higgins (29:47.916)
Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's pretty cool. That'd be cool to... So have I sold it?
Tyson (29:54.724)
That would be amazing. Well, you've sold it. I think at the moment, so my goal as well actually, so I've taken a leaf out of your book, I've got my eyes set on trying to break 240 for the marathon to get back into it and just find some rhythm. I mean, I'm a long way off that at the moment. I've got plenty of training to do. So I like the idea of a fast course. I don't know why I imagine Ballarat just to be slow. I think I picked just any local.
Ella Higgins (30:08.507)
Awesome. Yeah.
Ella Higgins (30:16.482)
Yeah.
Tyson (30:21.388)
uh, balleracks or people that are familiar with Ballarat with those Sturt Street is a bit of a hill. Uh, so I just picture big dirty loops up and down that hill, which for no reason, I don't know why I imagined that. Like my brain's just created something to try and stop me going back to Ballarat for whatever reason. But I like the idea that you've sold it as a, or you've heard at the very least that it's a fast course. Um, that makes it a little more appealing.
Ella Higgins (30:30.122)
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Ella Higgins (30:36.725)
Yeah, right.
Ella Higgins (30:40.27)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Tyson (30:44.652)
So if I can get a pair of gloves and some long socks, I'm looking far more, far more positively on the Ballarat course. Okay, so April, is that the next one on the horizon really? Are you looking at anything? Because what are we now? July, oh, we've still got a little while.
Ella Higgins (30:56.81)
I think so.
Ella Higgins (31:00.666)
Yeah, got a little while. I'm not a serial marathoner. I don't like doing a million races. So I like kind of picking one major race for the year and then slotting in other. Like I like the idea of doing some fun stuff for the rest of this year and then building into potentially
Ella Higgins (31:30.626)
just constantly racing. And yeah, I guess that makes me a bit of a dark horse sometimes that I come out and yeah, like you said, I do all this training and then suddenly I can come out and people are like, who is this person? Which I like, I like.
Tyson (31:47.775)
Yeah, that-
That's really cool. So when you say just having a bit of fun yet, you're looking at more, maybe some half marathon, some 10 Ks or some trail runs.
Ella Higgins (31:55.486)
Yep, yep, all of the above. I haven't, I haven't locked anything in yet. I'm still sort of like in that post-race. I'll just focus on work for a bit and then I'll come back into working out where I want to go. There's just so many different areas that I could focus on in the running. So I...
But yeah, like you said, I mean, it excited me that I got that sub 240, maybe I can go faster. I think I can, so it would be cool to, while I'm at this, I've got this momentum with the road running, just sort of going with it. And then potentially, you know, in a few years time, going back to the trail, or even, yeah, like longer distances again, I was doing that. So, yeah.
I think watch this space. Yeah.
Tyson (32:55.742)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What shoes are you racing in?
Ella Higgins (32:59.654)
I raced in the Metaspeed, the Essex. I did that for Melbourne as well. Really liked them. They were really good.
Tyson (33:02.692)
the ASICs. Yeah, I like, I think I want to get on board the Metaspeeds as well. I love the Vaporfly, but it just, it kind of annoys me how woke Nike's gone. So I'm like, all right, you're not getting my 700 bucks for this one pair of shoes. And I haven't seen any, any too crazy advertising from ASICs. I'm like, all right, I'll jump on board with it. And they look cool. Have you got the blues or they got like a new?
Ella Higgins (33:14.128)
Yeah, yeah.
Ella Higgins (33:21.966)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it back on.
Ella Higgins (33:32.261)
Yeah, yeah, they're really cool. Yeah.
Tyson (33:32.352)
Yeah, they look cool. I think I saw just Jess Stenson rocking him in one of her marathons. I think that was my first introduction. I thought they looked pretty good. So how much are you training in those as well? Are you doing many of your sessions in the actual meta speeds or have you got like a slightly heavier trainer that you're doing here sort of Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays in.
Ella Higgins (33:36.742)
Yeah, yeah, they do look pretty cool.
Ella Higgins (33:51.742)
Yep, both. I, yeah, so I had like an older pair of the Metis Beads that I did my Melbourne one in. And so I was doing maybe one session a week. My Tuesday sessions often were in those. Then obviously I got a new pair for the race and then I only ran a couple of times in them before the race. But it felt the same, like it was a very familiar shoe even that was, I think.
the newer version. But yeah, then I've just got, yeah, I've got some other heavier shoes, like I like to mix them around a bit. Like it's funny, five years ago, I literally had like one pair of shoes, and I just wore them for everything and I had no idea and now I'm like, I've got my Monday shoe, my Tuesday shoe. So it's...
Tyson (34:48.217)
Yep.
Ella Higgins (34:49.974)
Like I'm a different person, but I love it. It's good.
Tyson (34:53.068)
That's so good. Have you got a sponsor yet?
Ella Higgins (34:56.466)
I don't have a sponsor. I'm not great with social media. I mean I've got it. I use social media for my work stuff as well. But I'm not like, I don't love it. So I feel like if I had a sponsor then I would have to be better at that.
Tyson (34:58.797)
Yep.
Tyson (35:12.587)
Yeah.
Tyson (35:17.076)
Yeah, sure. It is a funny, it's a funny world where you start dancing. I always say to Jesse, I'm like, if it wasn't for, cause I do stand up comedy and I've got the relaxed running stuff. If it wasn't for both of these things, I'd be as far away from. Social media is like, and I mean, people are probably laughing because my social media, even for relaxed running, I had a go at getting someone to do it for me for a while, but it just felt so impersonal. I'm like, oh, yeah.
Ella Higgins (35:24.014)
Okay. Yeah.
Yes.
Ella Higgins (35:36.07)
Alright. Yeah. Alright.
Tyson (35:38.616)
And I think she lived in Albania. It was just like, it was a, it was a language issue. It was a, what I thought I was asking for just wasn't what was happening. So yeah, I totally relate to the, uh, the social media issues. Yeah. If it wasn't for that, I would get away from it. But then I don't know, even, even like, if you start making some decent teams, you wouldn't even necessarily need that. Would you just need to be seen running fast in some good shoes? And I mean, the fact that you run the Meta speed makes me even more excited because
Ella Higgins (35:44.31)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (35:48.306)
Yeah.
Tyson (36:06.7)
It's so easy just to buy into the kipchoge factor. Hey, like you look at the fact he's run out one hour 59 in Vaporfly see like I must need those but then you see so many guns running in assets and soconi Or whatever other like soconi so much cooler now than back what they were in like 1997 when I went to school It's I mean there you don't have to worry about your ego getting bruised being seen in those so much One thing I wanted to ask you about I heard you mentioned so you've got how many kids have you got there?
Ella Higgins (36:17.13)
Yeah. Yes.
Ella Higgins (36:29.557)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (36:35.298)
I've got two, they're twins. They're four and a half, close to five, yeah. One of each. Yeah.
Tyson (36:37.41)
Okay, so your how old are they?
Okay, okay. Boys, girls? Oh, yeah, sweet. All right, it's interesting, because I've got two boys here, and I feel like, I don't know what yours are like. Twins, I just assume that personalities are gonna be similar, but my boys, no, they're not. Wow. That's so interesting.
Ella Higgins (36:56.678)
No, they're different, really. Yeah, yeah. They're just like opposites, but they get along really, really well. So it's kind of perfect that they're happy to play together, but then they've also got really different interests. Yeah. Oh, so good. Oh, yes. Oh my god. Yeah.
Tyson (37:09.904)
Yeah, what a drink four and a half sounds good to me. I've got a three-year-old and a nine-month-old and oh my gosh I've got two boys. I don't know if your girls the crazy one or your boys But my older boy mate, he's a he's a legend love him so much, but he's an absolute nutcase
Ella Higgins (37:21.371)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (37:25.778)
But three is hard. I feel like you're, but you're on the brink of it being easier. I feel like three and a half to four, they just start to, well, I don't know, every kid's so different. But I feel like I'm in a sweet spot now. And they're just so much easier. Yeah. And they're little people, you can talk to them. And I mean, you talk to your three year old, but like, you know what I mean? Like they become
Tyson (37:39.95)
Yeah. Four and a half sounds like a dream.
Tyson (37:52.673)
But you don't get abused for talking to him. It was funny. Someone asked me yesterday, it's like, how's Charlie going? And literally yesterday morning I had Googled like temper tantrums in a three year old. Is it still normal? Because I was like, I'm not sure if there's actually is there issues going on here or is this just normal? Google comforted me a little bit.
Ella Higgins (37:55.063)
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Ella Higgins (38:09.419)
Yeah.
Tyson (38:12.152)
based on the fact that it was like, no, he's just, I think it's the age, which was, anyway, the reason I say that is because it's interesting. You've got your two kids and are you working full-time, part-time? I guess what's today? It's a Tuesday, so probably, yeah.
Ella Higgins (38:15.467)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (38:22.518)
Part-time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm so, I'm a musician. So it's kind of like almost like every day, but it's still part-time. Like it's been around. It fits in pretty well. Yeah.
Tyson (38:29.228)
Ah.
Tyson (38:34.244)
Oh yeah. Oh sweet, what are you playing?
Ella Higgins (38:40.394)
Um, I play piano and cello.
Tyson (38:43.06)
Sweet. So what kind of, like when you say, is that, I was going to say full-time, but you're doing that part-time, your music. Yep. And so like, is that at gigs or is that at weddings? Or is that, where do you play your music?
Ella Higgins (38:50.163)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (38:55.822)
Oh, like it's mixed. So don't do as many weddings anymore. But yeah, so corporates, touring artists, recordings, I started doing my own compositions. So yeah, it's a mixed bag. It's yeah. So it's whatever people want me to do, whether it's piano or cello or string quartet or just backing up another artist.
Yeah, so it's.
Tyson (39:25.929)
Oh, that's awesome. Oh, so that, I guess in a way that compliments running nicely for a large part, like unless you're traveling to do your music, even then, like there's still probably a chance you can find a race at wherever you're traveling, but that must be a nice little balance with your running training. Is it just to be a bit flexible around where you can do your practice, you know, both on and off the run track?
Ella Higgins (39:36.735)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (39:44.002)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it, it complements running in a lot of ways, actually, like the lifestyle. It can like, it can and can't sometimes you're performing until really late, and then you're waking up early for a run. But, but outside of those situations, it really does fit the lifestyle really well.
And then it's just, there's a lot of overlaps I found with just the mentality and the consistency. And like, I can kind of use the same mentality and structure with both my things, which I find, yeah, it's good. It's good like that.
Tyson (40:26.266)
Yeah In the sense of like okay, it's time to practice now, let's go
Ella Higgins (40:35.326)
Yeah, and it's just this, just knowing that you're taking small steps regularly for this bigger picture thing. And just knowing it's about chipping away and enjoying the process and just having that, yeah, like sort of going with the flow a bit and, you know, like for running it might be listening to your body and with like being creative, it's sort of...
Tyson (40:43.552)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (41:05.494)
listening to what's going to come out that day. It's hard to explain, but I find that they compliment each other a lot.
Tyson (41:16.116)
I think I get it because I don't know if I mentioned to you, I recorded a podcast just before we started as well. So I could be getting information confused, but did I tell you I do standup comedy? Yeah, okay, so it was you. So I feel the same. I've got such an appreciation for musicians.
Ella Higgins (41:25.909)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (41:29.781)
Yeah.
Tyson (41:32.44)
for the same reason that I have appreciation for comedians is like that flow factor is a real thing in terms of improving, like even though it sounds strange, there's a lot of serious comedians out there where it's like, all right, you have to, you got to show up regularly. You got to figure out what went well, what went wrong, um, how you improve it. You sort of have to be, um, have your finger on the pulse just throughout the day as well. I don't know how relevant this is to music, but in terms of just keeping your, keeping your ear open for, for potential funny stories or whatever. It's
Ella Higgins (41:36.65)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (41:44.502)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (42:00.502)
Yes.
Tyson (42:00.756)
It's just really interesting how, um, for such a, uh, like a, a hobby or a career, which you look at and you're like, okay, it's just making people laugh. There's a lot of serious components that go into making sure you're doing that really well. So I always look at running as it's kind of my, my physical outlet and comedy is my creative outlet, which is nice. And I don't know if you feel like this, but a lot of the time, my best thinking is when I'm actually out there running, or I'll just be zoned out.
Ella Higgins (42:14.09)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (42:20.062)
Yeah.
Tyson (42:26.944)
And like little things, I'll just feel them clicking into place or maybe not even consciously, I'll just get back. I'm like, Oh, I'm not as angry or stressed or frustrated or nervous or whatever feeling I'm feeling as what I was before the run.
Ella Higgins (42:33.857)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Like when I'm running, I get super creative and I come up with all these ideas and then yeah, I can come back and but then the music can also make my running better. So it's like, yeah, like it definitely I know exactly what you're saying. But I think definitely running it's something about where your head's at or that the endorphins or something that just I get.
Tyson (42:51.178)
Yeah.
Tyson (42:55.888)
Yeah. Ha ha
Ella Higgins (43:04.742)
my brain just goes crazy with ideas and I'm like oh my god I'm gonna do this and this and this song and this like it's
Yeah, I know, if only!
Tyson (43:19.384)
Hey, one more question before I let you go. I know you said you got your fingers crossed that your two kids don't cause chaos. They've done brilliantly for 43 minutes.
Ella Higgins (43:26.03)
They've been very good. I can hear them. I hope, but yeah, I haven't, I've heard one cry.
Tyson (43:28.131)
lip
Now I can, I've heard him a couple of times, but it's barely going to come up at all in the whole recording. I was going to ask you about the fueling for the marathon. Like, did you have any particular plan in the lead up to your actual race in terms of carb loading and in terms of jowls or hydration for the actual race?
Ella Higgins (43:34.355)
Okay, good.
Ella Higgins (43:39.255)
Yep.
Ella Higgins (43:47.794)
Yes, so I mean this is something I need to work on more. I practiced with the gels I chose. I wanted to do Morton gels because they're lightweight and I found that they were fine for me. So yeah, I was practicing on my long runs taking that in, probably wasn't taking them on enough and then during the race
I definitely didn't. I kind of, I think this is typical me, I kind of get to that pointy end when I should be taking on more and because I'm just, I just want it to be finished, I stop doing those steps because I'm tired. It's like, it's, it's counterintuitive. I don't know why I do that but yeah, so I basically, I like what I liked better in Melbourne.
Tyson (44:29.064)
Yep.
Ella Higgins (44:41.122)
that I was doing was I was doing the gel and the tailwind and kind of going backwards and forth and I think that helped me drink enough as well. Whereas I just didn't drink enough during Gold Coast and actually I got a bit sick at the end and ended up having to get fluids in the tent. So yeah, so I, you know, I continually learning and tweaking.
Tyson (44:50.617)
Aww yeah.
Tyson (45:02.03)
Oh no, yeah.
Ella Higgins (45:09.758)
I don't think heaps about my carb loading in the lead up. I kind of just, yeah, I just do what feels right. Try and keep safe foods. Don't want to risk getting food poisoning or something. That's probably more my concern than calories. So yeah, it's something I probably need to think more about especially now that I'm down to that time and I think it's
Tyson (45:23.093)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (45:39.566)
probably that incremental, like things matter, the more you're trying to get faster. And if you're already at that time where you, you know, you don't know how much faster you can go, I think these things can help. So yeah, I think taking on more during the race would have been much better for me. So yeah, you live and you learn. Next time I'll be able to hopefully keep it up.
Tyson (46:01.243)
Yeah.
Ella Higgins (46:09.314)
Just don't give up at the end. Take on more water, take on that extra gel. Don't just try and get to the end of the race. Like that's when you need it.
Tyson (46:20.725)
Yeah, that's so true. It's good advice for me as well. I definitely relate to that. We're like, all right, let's just get it done. But hey, I know you've got those little rascals running around, so I won't hold you up. I appreciate you coming on. I'm pumped to keep my eyes on your name in the coming races. I'll probably bump into you because you did a pretty good job.
Ella Higgins (46:24.522)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Tyson (46:39.256)
Convincing me for balerats. So as long as that son looks like it's gonna be shining. I might see you there It's the way hey, thanks for coming on Awesome. We'll see you later. See everybody Cut that off there. Sweet that
Ella Higgins (46:43.186)
Yeah, nice. That was great. Thank you so much. Thanks.