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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for taking the time today.
Could you give us a top level overview about what it is that you're currently working on
and your journey so far?
Sure, happy to be here Aqil, thank you for having me.
I'm Anthony Ewing, the co-founder, chief brand officer here at Thoughtium.
We are an experienced led coaching and consulting firm uh based here in Chicago.
And my current focus is on building a successful client services business.
uh I've been doing that for the last 10 years as uh the co-founder of the organization and
most recently shifting
from CEO to more of a brand focused role, which has been another focus of mine too, which
is really kind of trying to understand and create the next season or the next chapter in
my career.
um Now seeing a successful business grow and enabling others to let it fly.
Amazing, amazing.
mean, I love to go back to the start of your entrepreneurship journey.
So why did you start the business?
What's the story behind that?
Yeah, I hope all founders that come on this show have more than one reason why they
started a business.
It's like, there's the business reason, right?
We saw a need in the marketplace and for us that was, we just really felt like there was a
need for more immersive, more intimate development opportunities for folks within
organizations, both small and large.
As leaders, as a leader, I have been through
all kinds of training and leadership development.
And I grew a real passion for designing and delivering great learning experiences.
And I just felt like there was a huge need to deliver those uh in a more personal way.
And so that was kind of the market need.
ah But I think a few of the more fun reasons why we start a business, I joke that one of
the big reasons is because
I wanted an opportunity to do all of the things that I couldn't do in working for large
corporations.
I spent the first 15 years of my career uh working for large organizations, really cutting
my teeth in corporate America, had great experiences, um worked on incredible teams and
was influenced by some amazing leaders.
But at the end of the day, I had always struggled with the speed and pace with which
business moved in large organizations.
um
you know, always thought that one day I would start a company that no matter how big it
got, we were able to move with a speed and sense of agility that you just couldn't in
large corporate America.
And then, you know, I guess maybe the other, you know, kind of fun anecdote about starting
a business, we all have different reasons.
This was back in 2016 and content creation was just starting to emerge as a real
platform for entrepreneurs to tell the story, ah bring new ideas to the marketplace and
connect with others.
ah This was back when Gary Vaynerchuk was just starting to kind of come on the scene and
you started to see entrepreneurs like really make themselves present uh using social media
and particularly YouTube.
And that really excited me.
I started to see, okay, I know that I wanna
grow a small business.
um But this is a real opportunity because for free, if not just a little bit of capital,
um you're talking an iPhone and a really good internet connection.
uh I can share this value proposition or this business that I'm looking to grow with all
of LinkedIn, my entire friends and family, uh all of my social media.
uh for nothing and that really, really excited me.
And so, ah you know, my mom would say I started a business because I wanted to become a
YouTube influencer.
That was not the case at all.
But I was really excited to start a business, to tell the story of growing that business.
And that's a big part now 10 years later, like we are still very transparent about how
Thoughtium is evolving, the big decisions that we're making.
you know, we're using media like this to do that on a day-to-day basis, again, at a speed
and a sense of agility that we just couldn't have done, you know, behind the red tape.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Completely agree with you there because it just removed that barrier to entry, right?
To enter the marketplace and get your name out there.
Whereas before, you know, you did have to go around and actually actually knock on doors
and, and try and this conversation.
But now you can, as you said, make that post, get a few thousand views on it on people
that you can actually help with the service, which is, which is amazing.
It's, it's always an interesting transition out of a big corporation into entrepreneurship
that, you the lifestyle is very different.
I went for my very first role.
I was working as an accountant.
um
at Airbus, right?
So huge, huge company making planes, all those amazing things.
But as you know, as you mentioned before, as well as I just felt like had no real
ownership over, over things, you know, you couldn't remove things.
You didn't really see the work that you were doing, like the actual effects of it on the,
the business as a whole.
Whereas in entrepreneurship where you are leading the ship, you know, every decision you
make, completely changes the business.
And so it's such an interesting transition.
So how did you personally find that transition going from working in corporate
working at a job to then running the business, being an entrepreneur, which is two
completely different paths.
Yeah, I think it's a great question.
I'd say the honest answer is quite easily.
And I say that because I think for so many of us who start like yourself, Aqil who start
in large corporations, we find opportunities to be what they call intrapreneurial.
And for the first 15 years of my career, as much as I might have been a bit constricted
behind,
large hierarchies uh and org charts.
I found corners of my professional career at the beginning to really sharpen and express a
sense of entrepreneurship.
I tied myself to bigger, more transformational projects.
I put myself out there and developed myself as a thought leader within these organizations
and facilitated conversations with other leaders.
I found a sense of creativity.
And that's why I would encourage anybody who is working in a large organization that has
aspirations to start a small business to start demonstrating those practices immediately
in their current role.
uh And then as I got closer to starting the business, I started to, about a year or two
prior to starting Thoughtium I was really reverse engineering, starting this business.
So the conversations I was having in my full-time role,
started to, I started to tie them more directly to, okay, who could my first or second
client be?
And let's, every conversation that I'm having, I should see through the lens of starting a
successful consulting business.
And so by the time, know, uh by the time of me actually making the decision, ah it wasn't
a jump, you know, it uh was just a more firm and more defined step into.
And in fact, the kind of origin moment was, you know, 2016, I was still about six to 12
months from starting Thoughtium really in my mind.
You know, I still had another six to 12 months to kind of cut my teeth and get the
foundations built.
And I had a CCO at the time that I was working for in a larger organization.
He left the organization, moved to another, and he called and said,
I want you to follow me here.
I need you to quit your job ah because I need you to do over here what you did in the
previous company.
And it was that moment, I'll never forget it.
I was in a little phone booth in a startup office in San Francisco and I'm having this
conversation and I was almost so naturally prepared for this moment.
I didn't even know it.
These words came out of my mouth that I was not expecting, which was, I'd love to join
you, but I would love for you to be my first client.
And it just, it came so naturally.
know, at the time I was surprised.
like, what am I actually saying right now?
But as I look back, I recognized that I had been preparing myself for that moment for
several years.
And so the transition for me, of course, you he said yes, and he brought me in and that's
all it took was one client.
And here we are, you know, 10 years later.
having built a multimillion dollar business with a team of 20 and um growing.
Just because of that moment that it just felt right to take the step, not the leap to take
the step.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I mean, what I love about that as well is, you you prepared so well that as soon as the
opportunity came up, it was just instinctually a yes.
Like it wasn't a force to go into anything like that.
It was just very, very natural.
And that all came from that, you know, that preparation you did, you did before.
And it also leads quite nicely into the kind of next question I had, was what was that
first year growing the business like?
Because for a lot of people getting that first, that second, that third client is a grind.
Yeah.
to try and get that business through.
of course our first client came through from that immediate connection that you had, but I
guess throughout that first year, how did you manage the sales element of the business?
Yeah, the first maybe piece of advice that I always give folks who are looking to start a
consulting business, a coaching business, any client services business is, they say, find
that first client, but I would go one step further.
Don't be afraid to take a more fractional role with your first client.
Don't be afraid to take a gig that has you working 25, 30 hours a week for a single
client.
And yes, it's going to feel like, my gosh, I still kind of feel like a full-time employee.
But for those six or 12 months, you're going to have the stability and the consistency
that you need then to work that much more on building the business.
And that's exactly what I did.
took more, my first few clients were longer term retainer based clients ah that wanted to
bring me in to really build day to day.
They wanted me to almost become a part of their organization.
And as much as I knew that Thoughtium ultimately was not going to be this kind of staff-og
type model, it was perfect for the first year to 18 months.
And so during the day,
support my one or two clients.
And at night and maybe Thursday afternoons and Fridays when I wasn't staffed, I was
working
more new business.
Yeah.
thing that that allowed me to do was, in my case, those roles that I was taking was
helping organizations build learning and development from the ground up.
And what that allowed me to do was really build my practitionership in learning and
development.
And it rounded out my ability to say, I've done it all, you know, from, I'm not just a
facilitator and a coach.
Like I've helped organizations build entire functions from the ground up.
So if you need us to come in as...
facilitators great if you need us to come in and advise you on the building blocks of a
great learning culture, we can do that as well too.
And so that was really the focus for my first and second year.
And I also tell people this, depending on the business, especially if you've spent a few
years in corporate America,
You can build a very successful client services business on the back of your first and
second degree network.
So I'll tell you one of the things that I didn't do in year one or year two, and we're
still necessarily not doing it today.
uh I didn't do LinkedIn paid advertising.
I didn't do cold email outreach.
What I did do for the first year or two was I focused very acutely on the circles around
me that I...
I had great relationships with.
And that wasn't just, I'd love to meet up for coffee.
That was really getting on the line, understanding their business, having conversations
without the intent of throwing the right hook of, know, I want to send you a contract.
It was a year or two of just really getting to know the business of these leaders that I
had either worked alongside or worked for.
And that was such a great foundation because to this day, 10 years later,
you know, we are having those same conversations and the biggest contracts that we're
signing are from folks who know and love and trust us.
ah And so, yes, the other piece of advice is, you know, as you're getting started is, uh I
know the instinct is to cast a wide net, you know, to, uh now I've got to create some sort
of revenue engine.
And yes, that'll be the case ultimately, but for client services businesses, coaching,
consulting,
um your number one focus should be really cultivating your own network.
Yeah, absolutely.
mean, the main thing is with especially B2B sales and the industry that we're in is it is
trust, right?
And that all comes from, you know, a period of time of knowing someone, doing that rapport
with them and understanding them through and through.
And that's why, of course, as you said, right, the network was the main lead generator for
the business, right?
Because you had that vast network of people who did know, who did like you and did trust
you.
And when you have all those things in line, then naturally, you the sales, doesn't feel
like you're selling, right?
It just feels very natural.
Um, overall, whereas when you do go down the cold outbound, know, the, hard sales route,
does feel like you're really trying to sell all the time.
Um, and for me, you know, what I found was I tried that method of, doing those hard sales
and very transactional way of selling.
And it just didn't work for me at least, because that's just not the type of person I am
as well.
Right.
I prefer the relationship angle, um, you know, building up a connection, building that
rapport, and then seeing if you can, course help in the future.
And so I think that's the, that's a, that's a big golden nugget for people looking to
start a businesses a hundred percent.
I look into your network, you'll be interested in and surprised even to know the types of
people in your network as well that you might've forgotten about.
It's interesting when you go on your LinkedIn, you go on your connections, you're like, I
remember that guy.
And now he's doing this amazing thing at some other company.
Right.
And so, you know, going back through your network, I think is, is, is a big golden nugget
there for, anyone looking to, to, to get going with this for sure.
Absolutely.
Amazing.
that's the first year and the second year, you know, really takes off.
And then as you started to hire more.
So, I mean, talk me through the first couple of highs that you, that you went through.
Was that in the early couple of years of the business or was that a little bit later on as
you start to gain more traction and more clients coming on.
Yeah, I'd say around year two or three, we made our first hire.
And again, might've been a little bit more of an atypical move for us ah because
ironically, our first hire was not another consultant or coach, even though we were
building a coaching and consulting business.
Our first hire was an operations manager.
ah And that's something that I would highly recommend, you know, anybody building a
business is ah don't sleep on...
on having a really good operational backbone from day one.
So it was myself and my co-founder, you know, in the first few years.
And what we were finding is that he and I, although we were willing to kind of do it all
from selling the new work to actually executing the work, there was a lot of stuff that
had to happen in between.
You we had to learn how to invoice.
We had to learn how to build our P &L out.
Like we had to put the, some of the uh initial kind of motions in.
uh understanding and measuring our business.
And although my co-founder Norm is an incredible operationalist himself, we just didn't
have the space or the time for it.
So we hired an operations manager who just did all the day-to-day kind of grunt work of
sending invoices, tracking receivables, uh putting together uh different views of our
business and where it's headed.
And it was one of the best decisions that we made.
uh
And then, you know, as time went on, you year kind of four or five is when we really
started to focus on building and scaling a team.
And that's when you get into, I think, the perilous question of, do you continue to build
uh more leadership at the top, those that have the expertise and the knowledge to uh
really drive thought leadership as a consulting business?
Or do you create, do you bring in more support staff?
uh junior level consultants that can support the magic that you and a few of your partners
really bring to the market.
And there's no right answer, but I will tell you that we ah have tested both the support
model ah and as well the uh really heavy at the top model.
And I think right in between is the sweet spot for us.
We have an amazing team of both
kind of day-to-day practitioners that really just like to do design and development of our
workshops and our off sites.
And then we have an incredible leadership team that have deep networks that are driving
top line revenue by bringing new relationships in and that ultimately are in front of some
of our high value work.
But far too many times I see a couple of things happen.
More than not, I see
Solo practitioners, solo coaches and consultants try to build a business and what they're
really building is just a support model for themselves.
And all of a sudden that gets really heavy because all of a sudden you now have a payroll
of folks that are dependent on you delivering the work and you being the face of the
organization.
And this is why from day one, you know, this company was called Thoughtium Team.
It was not called Anthony Ewing and Associates.
ah because from day one, I really wanted to build a business that was above and beyond any
name or role.
ah And although I had a great name in the L &D industry and it could have, I easily could
have gone out and said, hey, this is Anthony Ewing and Associates and you're bringing
Anthony in and he's got a great team to support him.
I think that only takes you so far.
And you can build a very successful business that way.
You really can.
ah But I just, wasn't that kind of lone wolf.
type of an individual.
Norm and I particularly like really passionate about building a team.
And today that looks like a real balance between, you know, uh more senior thought leaders
and, you know, support uh roles that, you know, just love to do the day-to-day work.
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think the other cool thing as well is it, you know, it's not a very flat
organization where, know, for the junior roles, it's, hard if it is very flat for them to
see any type of progression.
And, you know, I've worked in startups before where we had that same thing where, know,
you're in your role and the only one above you is then the founder.
it's like, well, I can't take his role really.
And so there's, know, where am going to move within this organization?
What does that future look like?
And so I think that hybrid method does make a lot of sense, right?
Because then on both ends.
it fits quite well on, on managing the team.
And then also that progression that I can come with it as well.
Um, which is really cool to see.
So I love to talk about, know, your transition out of being the CEO.
And so, so why did you make that decision then?
You know, what was that moment where you came to it when you're like, do you know what?
Yeah.
Now's the time for us to make this change.
Yeah, well, it's funny because there's so many things that if you had told me day one were
gonna happen, I would look at you and say, you're nuts, absolutely not.
And one of those things is, if you had told me day one or year one of starting Thoughtium,
that there would be a day where you were not CEO.
I don't know if I'd say you're nuts, but I would really wanna know more about that.
I'd really wanna know more about that.
Well, what ultimately happens?
Like, do you...
Does that mean I eventually get forced out or does that mean that I can't necessarily play
that role anymore?
And I think one of the most beautiful things about entrepreneurship and leadership in
general, you don't have to run a business to learn these lessons is that as you mature in
your professional career, um I think your ego starts to um devolve in a really wonderful
way.
You know, um for me, um one of the most exciting titles that I've ever received is
co-founder and CEO.
It's, you know, from a uh sheer kind of LinkedIn resume, uh you know, uh aspect.
It was the Holy Grail for me, you know, my entire life and even my career.
And it's been an absolute honor to hold that title.
And every day that I've walked into Thoughtium Team,
I've been so proud to carry that responsibility, not just the title, but the day-to-day
responsibility.
ah But as the business evolves, you realize that it is so much more than a title.
And for us, ah we're a leadership development team made of incredible leaders, people that
come in and have been doing this work for years at the highest level.
ah And I have business partners now that have been coaching some of the most successful
executives across, you know, Fortune 100s.
And you know, if you're coaching at that level, you've got some real sharpened leadership
skills.
And so, you know, over time, I realized, man, how lucky am I to be surrounded by such, you
know, talented individuals?
And Norman, I brought a third partner in.
His name is Griff Krenbrink.
I believe he's actually been on this show before.
And he's just one of these.
rare talents um that came into our organization and said, this is amazing what you've
built and I want to double it.
without words, that's essentially what he brought to, thought to him from day one about
five years ago.
And not only did he help us double our business, but I saw the way that he was moving and
leading within the organization, the respect and the trust that he was building from the
team and ah even just the lenses that he saw our business through, performance.
um culture, um recognition, all these lenses.
And they might've been a little bit, those lenses might've been a little bit different
than the ones that I had worn for the past 10 years.
so about six months ago, I was having breakfast with my co-founder Norm and business
partner, Griff.
And it was just a normal breakfast.
We get together, we work out every once in a while and have breakfast.
And ah we were talking a little bit about
what we call our next next, um which is kind of like what, at this point in your career,
what ultimately do you want to be doing?
um And in that conversation, Griff looked across the table and he said, hey, you see
yourself being CEO of Thoughtium for the rest of your career?
And it was the first time I was faced with that question.
And just as naturally as it was for me to say the words on day one, I'd love for you to be
my first client.
just as naturally and equally as surprisingly, I looked across the table at Griff and I
said, you know, I don't know if I'll always be the right fit for CEO for thought to him.
um then I kind of paused and he was kind of like this and I looked back at him and Norm
and I looked at Griff and I said, I think you're going to be an incredible CEO one day.
And we just left it at that.
And with that, it was almost like, you know, the wheels started turning and we started
having some.
really healthy discussions about who is best fit to lead the organization in ah this next
um season.
And it was very clear that Grit was gonna be a great fit.
So from a business perspective, ah we made this really amazing decision that feels right
for the company and the marketplace.
I'd say personally for me, was uh one of the more proud moments of my career was being
able to kind of
step aside, uh really check my ego a bit and say, hey, I'm the product of incredible
leaders that have uh put me on and stepped aside to enable me to fly.
Like this is such an opportunity to do it.
uh And we couldn't be more thrilled with where our thought team is headed with GRIFT at
the helm.
And then me being able to explore um corners of the business and myself that I've been
looking forward to over the last 10 years.
And that's more brand building, more telling the story.
Fortunately or unfortunately for some more YouTube videos and you know just being out in
the marketplace which which I'm looking forward to get getting back to doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It sounds like similar to what you said, where it was just a very natural decision, right?
Where it just felt right in that moment.
And it seems like, you know, that those core decisions, you know, it was done when it does
feel natural, right?
There wasn't a hard push for anything like that, which seems to be a bit of a trend, which
is quite interesting to also see.
So, I mean, in terms of your day to day then, you know, what's that look like right now?
I mean, I know it's a week out from, uh, you know, having, having the change, but you
know, what does your day look like within, within the business and what areas are you?
Are you very excited to dive into?
Well, right now I'm really focused on um helping our organization define what brand means
to Thoughtium.
know, brand is like one of the most nebulous terms that's thrown around.
And I think a lot of organizations confuse marketing for brand.
um And we have to do both.
You know, we have to be good at marketing and making sure that our value proposition is
clear, making sure that we're reaching, you know, our target audience.
um But alongside of that, there's this aspect of brand which I think has made Thoughtium
you so differentiated.
And that's how people feel about our organization.
That's the window into our organization that helps us emote what makes us so different.
And indirectly that does turn into more sales for us.
ah So right now I'm really focused on um doing some of the work that we encourage our
clients to which is kind of stepping up on the balcony and saying, okay, what...
I know what brand uh looks like uh for a Fortune 500 organization.
It includes a lot of people and teams and budgets and agencies, but we're a 20 person
shop.
And so what does that look like for us and what are some of the bets in the investments
that we're going to make?
And I still, I run a small team within Thoughtium Team that I'm very proud of.
And uh I don't think I'll ever get away from having that.
that team focus and even the one-on-one focus, my ability to coach and lead others.
um And as well, uh running alongside Grift and Norm as partners and particularly Grift now
as CEO enabling them is a big focus of mine.
mean, I don't, we don't, think the three of us would agree.
It's one of the more powerful teams I think we've ever been on when you've got two equal
business partners that are just as invested in the success of Thoughtium.
And that's what makes this
you know, this shift from CEO to Chief Brand Officer, maybe not feel as like, you know, ah
profound as maybe some would think, because at the end of the day, we're a small team and
I've got two partners literally sitting on each side and we're, the three of us are
responsible for some of the biggest decisions that we're making within Thoughtium Team.
So that won't change.
Yeah, for sure.
one thing I love to get your take on is when you started the business, was it just
yourself or did you have a co-founder at the time?
What was the setup there?
was just myself um for the first 12 to 18 months.
I was doing the fractional um head of learning and development, um and I was making
horrible YouTube videos and doing what I could and learning invoicing and QuickBooks and
things of that nature.
um At the time, I was living in San Francisco, but I had a really good friend.
close confidant here in Chicago, Norm, Norm Ralph, now co-founder, ah who was equally
working for these large organizations.
I was in the life sciences space, he was in the financial services space.
And he and I would just have conversations about, man, what would it be like if we were,
you we did have full autonomy, we didn't have the red tape.
And so about a year and I started having more serious conversations with him.
And to his credit, like he physically flew to San Francisco, probably four or five times
where
you know, we cleared the furniture in my apartment and put flip chart paper all over the
walls and started to hash out like what a uh consulting business would look like with he
and I at the helm.
And man, I couldn't be more uh proud of him for making that decision and for me for seeing
the opportunity to bring a co-founder in because again, to this day, I still say like, I
truly don't think Thoughtium Team would exist uh without what Norm has brought to the
table and without he and I being able to kind of
ah support each other and sometimes check each other on some of the biggest decisions.
Yeah, absolutely.
And the reason why I asked that is because, you know, of course, bringing in another
partner to the business.
I mean, you've done it before, right?
Which is, which is the amazing thing.
So you kind of had that experience of, this has worked out well.
So I guess it helped me that transition a little bit easier.
Cause you know, the point I'm at right now in my business where I am like the sole, the
sole founder and everything like that.
I don't have any partners is, you know, I've been thinking is like, you know, what if I
had a, had a co-founder, right?
To take care of the, you know, parts of the business, which isn't my strengths and.
We can then build that business up together, but giving them that control, right?
And that's more of a personal, maybe a personal thing, but like giving that control over,
right?
Similar to like your first employee when you bring someone in is, you know, not breathing
down the neck all the time on the work that they're doing and let them do the work.
It's a, one of those, which I find is an interesting journey, you know, cause you start
giving up more and more and more control and trusting obviously the team you have more,
which goes back down, down to the team that you have, obviously a team of very.
you know, high performing uh leaders in the space, it means that you can have that trust
because the team is there.
Absolutely, and I think one of the things that Norm and I both would agree on is what made
our early partnership so successful.
And this is advice that I would give any founder that's looking to bring a partner or
co-founder on.
uh Find somebody with uh equal and opposing talents.
You don't need to find another you.
You don't need to find another Aqil And in many cases, that's where some of the conflict
kind of arises because ah you both...
see things similarly and you approach work the same way.
Norm is my equal and opposite in terms of his talents.
I'm the brand guy, I'm the marketer on the face and he's more the ops guy, the performance
guy behind the scenes.
And because of that, like in our first year or two, there was a certain aspect of his work
that I was like, I don't even know what he's doing, but I know that it's so good.
for Thoughtium Team because it's something that I don't have.
And I think his eyes were open to a lot of the things that I was doing.
Like why would we want to invest in digital content and a YouTube presence?
And he was seeing that.
He's like, gosh, that's amazing.
It's so great for this business.
And it's nothing I could do on my own.
So I know that we like to surround ourselves with like-minded individuals.
uh But I think in the case of a partnership or in your case, uh
you know, a co-founder relationship, you've got to have rapport and trust, absolutely.
Like you've got to, I mean, there's, you you've got to, you've got to really want to have
dinner with this person a lot, you know.
uh Norm jokes that he spends more time with me than his wife.
I don't think that's true, but like, you know, um and you've got to be enamored with the,
you know, their, magic that they bring in a way that you're like, gosh, I wouldn't even
know how to begin.
So those would be the two, you know, kind of like checkpoints or pressure tests that I
would put on that type of a partnership.
Amazing.
Sounds sounds really good.
So thank you for your advice today.
One of the one of the final questions that I always like to end the show on is if you can
go back to your 18 year old self and only take three lessons with you, whether it's some
philosophical, philosophical knowledge, some business knowledge, some general advice, what
are those three lessons and why would it be those three things?
Ooh, three.
um
It's not about how much weight you can lift.
And I mean that literally like in the gym.
you said 18 year old self or 28 year old self?
Okay, 18 year old self.
Yeah, I would say like start with calisthenics, bro.
Like more stretching.
ah You your 45 year old self will thank you for that.
ah But that's non-work related, but that would definitely be number one.
uh
Number two, I would say, and this is advice that my father as a successful businessman has
given me time and time again.
And I hate, it's like at the time you hate when your parents say this, but it's so true
that at 18, um you are just at the beginning of a long road of some very big lessons.
And um the best thing that you could do at 18 that I would tell my 18 year old self,
is to just be available for learning those life's lessons and don't push back against
them.
um Like really, really find ways to embrace those life lessons.
It's something, it's a skill that I have today that I wish I had at 18 or even 28, where I
would meet these big life lessons, adversity, uh big shifts or changes, and I would meet
them with a little bit of tension of like, okay, well, I can still control this.
um
And I think that translates into how I kind of move as an entrepreneur as well too, with
just much more agility and fluidity today than I did as my 18 year old self.
You know, it's interesting.
uh I was probably 14 at the time, middle school.
I'll never forget this.
uh There was a kid, I can't remember his name, but we were last day of school and
everybody's signing yearbooks.
And there was a note in my middle school yearbook that still sticks with me to this day
because it came from a 14 year old.
And it said, hey, Anthony, said, have a great summer.
uh Really had some fun with you this year.
don't take yourself too seriously.
And that came from a 14 year old.
Yeah, yeah.
And that wasn't just general, you know, a general life statement.
That was him seeing something in me that he, you know, wanted to convey.
And that was, you know, at that age, I took everything so seriously.
ah And that's something I still, you know, struggle with today.
um You know, my ability to let go is something that I am.
really, really working on and I've made some huge progress.
And I will tell you how that translates into business.
When there are moments like what we just faced this past year where it's obvious that
there needs to be a change at the top, the more you can let go and just be in that moment
with a sense of curiosity and openness, not only is it gonna be easier, but it's gonna be
far more gratifying.
So I would tell my 18 year old self to
practice letting go and to stretch a little bit more.
I guess it's the two lessons.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much for your time today.
Really enjoyed the conversation and there's lots of golden nuggets for everyone listening
at home.
Thank you, Aqil, appreciate you.