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Offense, or taking things personally, is one of the most common tactics the Enemy uses to tear down relationships. When somebody feels hurt in a relationship, their tendency is to pull away and isolate, which then leads to an even greater rift between the two parties. This is true for all relationships, but mentoring relationships have the tendency to experience this on a much more frequent scale. Oftentimes, the mentee is testing the relationship to see exactly how much the mentor will tolerate before they leave. Because of this, it's so critical that a mentor can navigate the mentoring relationship without taking offense; because offending things WILL happen. Zach and John are together on the podcast this week to talk through the dangers of taking offense, some practicals on how to avoid becoming offended in the mentoring relationship, how to stay in the mentoring game for the long haul, and what it looks like to focus the relationship on the main things.
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. Learn more at you can mentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Our main man, mister John Bernard has released a book entitled Mephibosheth,
Speaker 2:The
Speaker 1:Search for Identity, Purpose and Community. It's an amazing book and I know it will encourage you and your fellow mentors. While you're at it, pick up my book, You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission and Break Generational Curses. You can find both of these resources on Amazon or on our website. Lastly, follow us on social media.
Speaker 1:Listen to the podcast and share everything you find valuable with your mentoring friends. We're here for you, and we wanna add value in whatever way we can. Thank you so much. You can mentor. We here at You Can Mentor are toying around with the idea of having a mentoring gathering or conference where mentoring leaders can come, get encouraged and equipped as they lead their ministries.
Speaker 1:Our goal in this is to create a safe and fun environment where mentors can share stories of struggles and successes while bonding together with their mentoring team and other mentoring leaders all across the country. If you lead a team of mentors and are interested in learning more about this gathering, please reach out to us. We'd love to pick your brain on how to create a gathering that best serves you and your team. Since this is our 1st year doing it, we want as much input as possible to create the best experience as possible. Thanks.
Speaker 1:You can mentor. Mentoring leaders, are you looking for a place to discuss important mentoring issues with other people who are passionate about mentoring? If so, let me introduce You Can Mentored Learning Labs, a monthly call with other mentoring leaders to support each other as we lead mentoring organizations and other mentors. Each call will focus on a topic and allow you to share as well as hear from others on the struggles and successes they have had regarding this specific topic. To sign up, please reach out to zachgarza@zach@youcanmentor.com, or find us on social media.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 3:Welcome.
Speaker 2:What was that beforehand?
Speaker 3:Hello, listener. John here with Zach.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's much better. Zach's here.
Speaker 3:Here we are. We are ready to we're we're we're you know what we're doing? We're gearing up for getting down today. That's the that's the best way I can describe
Speaker 2:it. Gearing up to get down, Oh, yeah. Man, you're on fire
Speaker 3:right now. We're gonna talk about some good stuff today, Zach. Yes. We are. You and you brought this too.
Speaker 2:I brought this.
Speaker 3:From the mind of Zach. This was me. Mentors out there and potential mentors, get ready for this. Buckle up because we've got some good stuff coming at you. Not only is this in theory really well done, but but practically speaking, today, Zach, you've brought some tools for our tool belt.
Speaker 2:Man, you are all business right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're just like you remind me of a radio DJ.
Speaker 3:Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're you're on point right now.
Speaker 3:Lost art, I think.
Speaker 2:Well, your voice is really good for the airwaves.
Speaker 3:I've got a real face for radio.
Speaker 2:I don't I don't understand the moooms, though.
Speaker 3:It's like I'm contemplating it, you know, with our listeners. It's something that that we're just doing together. That's all.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, we're we are gonna talk about mentoring today, and it's gonna be good, John. I think you're right on that.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. Is it okay
Speaker 2:that I say that what I created is good?
Speaker 3:Oh, if when it is, objectively speaking.
Speaker 2:But do I know when it's not?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Listener, this is something that I want you to realize. This is a little bonus. Okay? This is free.
Speaker 3:When you do something or create something good, it's okay to be confident about that. You're not being prideful. Okay? So you you be proud of yourself in that.
Speaker 2:That's good. I I need to hear that. Yeah. Okay. So first for today, we are going to talk about something that good mentors do.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And this is very important. In fact, I would say that this thing that we're about to talk about is very simple. So much so that you might not even think about it a lot. But as I've gotten older and as I have grown in my knowledge of how to have productive relationships, this thing right here, this key is key.
Speaker 2:This key is key.
Speaker 3:So well spoken.
Speaker 2:Thank you. And what we're talking about is we're talking about good mentors do not take offense. They just don't do it. Mhmm. This is incredibly difficult to do to stay unoffended, but man is it important.
Speaker 3:Would you say that the the it's harder today than it's ever been in the history of mankind to not be offended?
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of ways to be offended. Yes.
Speaker 3:I think that I think that we've created ways that we can get offended.
Speaker 2:I mean, especially now with these cell phones and the texting,
Speaker 3:the texting offends you? No.
Speaker 2:No. The texting doesn't offend me, but there's a lot of ways to be offended in the texting.
Speaker 3:Oh, there's that's right. It's it's a way to communicate, and we don't get nuance. We don't get inflection sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I feel like I've texted you at times with with very funny things, and I just kinda wait for an answer or reply, maybe an LOL, maybe a skull and crossbones. That's what the kids do. And then just nothing.
Speaker 2:You are offended right now.
Speaker 3:And that's yeah. It's it's making me it's reminding me how offended I am.
Speaker 2:You've made this personal. Okay. So this is why we're talking about this is because I was reminded about this truth just this past week. I was hanging out with my mentor. His name's Steve Allen.
Speaker 2:He has been on the podcast. And Steve is a mighty man of God. And I realized this thing about Steve this week, and it kinda blew my mind. And what I realized is this. Steve is unashamed in his pursuit of me.
Speaker 2:He is not afraid to call me. He's not afraid to leave voicemails. He's not afraid to leave voice memos. He's not afraid to challenge me. And it's almost like every time we talk, he is giving me opportunities to grow in my faith as a husband, as a father, as a man of God, and he never gets offended.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So, like, he's consistently, hey, Zach. I want you to read this book. I want you to listen to this podcast. I want you to I want you to get this scripture and put it on your heart.
Speaker 2:I want have you memorize it. And I really only do about 1 out of every 10 things that he asked me to do. And I was thinking about that today or not today, but I was thinking about that this week about just how he doesn't get offended, how he's continuously asking me to do things, and I'm continually not doing them Mhmm. And yet he stays in the game.
Speaker 3:So he doesn't get discouraged. He doesn't kinda come at you to say, hey. Did you do these things? And then you say, well, no. And then he says, well, then fine.
Speaker 2:Doesn't do that.
Speaker 3:He just stays in the game, as you say.
Speaker 2:He just continues to shoot a shot. Mhmm. Continues to toss me pitches. Okay. And sometimes I hit them, but most of the time I don't.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And it's the most remarkable thing. And he's been doing this. I mean, we've been friends for almost 15 years. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's been doing this time after time after time after time, and it just hit me this week. I'm like, oh my gosh. Steve is unoffendable. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Man, that's the good stuff. That's where we should be. Right? That's isn't that a goal for us as a as a mentor, just as as a person in general?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it is. I think that is the goal. So that got me thinking about how I relate to other people and how often I get offended. I mean, I get offended if my wife doesn't wash her dishes. I get offended if my kids don't pick up their clothes.
Speaker 2:I get offended if John doesn't text me back whenever I send him a text, which that does happen sometimes, John.
Speaker 3:It's hap it might have happened before. I I might have been calling the kettle black. Is that right? Is that the expression?
Speaker 2:All I'm saying is I am really good at taking offense. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And let me just kinda get this give give us a working definition, Zach, of, like, being offended, taking offense. Is it in other words, taking it personal? Is that is that something that we wanna say? Like, you know, is it is it being angry? Is it I just when I think of being offended, I think of, like, something happening that I have the decision on.
Speaker 3:Am I going to take this personal? Am I gonna, like, let this rock me to the core? Am I gonna let am I gonna be bugged by this? Like, what are you what are you talking here? How's how's how can we best kind of know when we're being offended by something or maybe when we should see, oh, well, this is an issue that needs to be addressed or this is something that I should talk about in a healthy way.
Speaker 3:And but being offended is a bad thing. Right? It's are we taking it to a point that that we shouldn't?
Speaker 2:I think what you said is true. Is taking taking it personal and just do you catch yourself trying to get out of the relationship? Okay. Making a
Speaker 3:decision, maybe it wouldn't be great for the relationship based on what you're feeling.
Speaker 2:And that right there, that phrase making a choice is something that I really wanna focus in on. Okay. Okay. So let's start talking about this. Awesome.
Speaker 2:Like, really talking about it. Let's get in let's gear up to get down.
Speaker 3:Let's you know what? Let's let's put down the pleasantry, Zach. Alright? We don't have time for that. Let's get to the core of this.
Speaker 3:I wanna get
Speaker 2:to the meat. Let's get down to business. Alright. So when dealing with mentoring, and really this goes in any relationship you have, but we're talking about mentoring because it's a mentoring podcast. We're talking about it.
Speaker 2:You know that it's not always going to be perfect. Mistakes will happen, especially when you're dealing with kids. Okay? And let's be honest, kids have a really good ability to make mistakes.
Speaker 3:Yes, they're offensive.
Speaker 2:Kids are pretty stinking offensive. Okay. Especially when like you as a mentor, like the reason why you mentor is because you said, hey, I have a heart. I have a desire to try to help this kid out, to try to make their life better. Right?
Speaker 2:And it is extremely difficult when that doesn't happen. Or even worse, whenever you're mentoring a kid and it seems like their life is actually getting worse. That is very hard to handle as a mentor. And there are plenty of ways whenever this happens, whenever things don't go your way, there are plenty of opportunities to choose to be offended. John, what are some of those opportunities?
Speaker 3:Listen. I mean, start off right off the bat. Right? Let's say that this is something that you've got a a weekly meeting and you, as a mentor, have put everything aside for this mentee. Right?
Speaker 3:You've made sacrifices. You got up. You got showered. You got dressed. I mean, you're there.
Speaker 3:You're excited about this. You've got you came up with the wittiest of questions, and then guess what? They don't show.
Speaker 2:Doesn't show up.
Speaker 3:Just right off the bat. Like, they're not even there. Right?
Speaker 2:How dare you, kid. Don't you know how important I am? Don't you know how busy I am? Don't you know what I went through to make this meeting happen?
Speaker 3:I could be anywhere right now, but I'm but I but I'm here for you, and you don't even have the common decency to do what I did.
Speaker 2:To do what I did? Yeah. To show up.
Speaker 3:To show up.
Speaker 2:That has happened to me more times than I can shake a stick out.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There, sir. Yeah. What's your what's your you know, do you have, like, a system? Did you back with meeting with a kid, did you kinda have, like, that 15 minutes and then I walk kinda thing?
Speaker 3:Or how did you deal with it?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. That is the most awkward thing in the world. Yeah. How long do I really give them? I think I mean yeah, that's different.
Speaker 3:This is dangerous. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't wanna answer? Yeah. I don't wanna answer that.
Speaker 3:You know what you do? You stay there the whole time. If it was it was if it was to be an hour, you stay there the whole hour. And just pray. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You just pray, and you just you just write your devo.
Speaker 2:No. If you're anything like me, you sit there for an hour and you just stew, and you just get super angry. Arms crossed. Oh, arms. I mean, you have a furrowed brow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, no brow has ever been furrowed.
Speaker 3:But, look, the kid might show up, but then what guess what else you gotta worry about these days? Just them sitting there on their phone the whole time.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is the worst. Whenever you're trying to have a conversation with the kid and they're just sitting there on TikTok checking out the newest dance move. Yeah. Goodness.
Speaker 3:Hey. We've talked about this before so that you're not the one who's in the wrong when but when you're sitting across the table with what's the relationship that you know, just again to remind the mentor here, Like, what's their relationship with their phone? Is it are you a leave it in the pocket? Are you leave it out on the table? Are you flip it over on the table?
Speaker 2:I would say don't take it out at all.
Speaker 3:Not at all.
Speaker 2:But I am a table on the table flipped over.
Speaker 3:On the table upside down.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is 85% polite, but 15% like come on, dude.
Speaker 3:But let's say your wife is is is about to have a baby.
Speaker 2:Don't go there. We're talking about mentoring here.
Speaker 3:We're talking
Speaker 2:about wives having babies. Okay. So kid doesn't show up. Kid's on his phone. What if the kid doesn't pick up his phone?
Speaker 2:He, quote unquote ghosts you, dog.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay. When you're trying to reach them. Yes. Okay.
Speaker 2:What if he ghosts you for a couple days? Or maybe even a week?
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's a powerless feeling.
Speaker 2:Golly. There's nothing you can do. What if he says something rude? Mhmm. Whether to you or even worse to your family.
Speaker 2:What if you invite your mentee over and he's mean to your kid? Yeah. That has happened before. Okay. That is that's really easy to get offended at.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Can I just interject a story here? Sure. So I was doing it. Did you ever do weekends, disciple discipleship now weekends?
Speaker 2:No. I didn't grow a Baptist, but I think that's a real Baptist thing.
Speaker 3:That's a real Baptist thing. So so our Baptist listeners out there, just praying for you. You know? So weekends were something that you they were like fall retreats. You have this little house full of kids.
Speaker 3:And I can remember as a college student, I was so cool back then. Man, skater, you know, guitar player, Honda Accord driver. Yeah. Yeah. I was the guy.
Speaker 3:And so any group was really happy to have me. Well, here I was, Friday night. We're just getting started. You know? Great house that we're in.
Speaker 3:So much pizza. Yeah. Pizza everywhere. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3:Doritos, Cool Ranch Doritos, cream soda. You know? Just a real popular kind of thing back then. And here I am connecting with this group of kids, man, high school guys. Everybody's digging me, you know, because I'm cool.
Speaker 3:And late in that evening, we're heading out the door to go play basketball yet again. And then Jason turns around right in the doorway, dude. Okay? The whole group's in front of me. You know?
Speaker 3:I'm heading out there to hang out with these guys and just, man, iron sharpening iron. Like, we are we are bonding. This is gonna be great. Jason stops, turns around, and looks at me dead in the eye and says, hey. Are you gonna be following us around all weekend?
Speaker 3:And, man, it was a dagger. I was like, talk about offended. That was it.
Speaker 2:So Yes, Jason. I am.
Speaker 3:Are you gonna follow us around all weekend? So all that to say, you know, here I was thinking I was just kinda naturally con connecting with all these guys. And Jason was like, when is this guy gonna leave us alone?
Speaker 2:And this is what's so crazy about mentoring relationships. The kid, for some reason, and I did this too, they're gonna make you feel like they don't like you. Mhmm. But really, they do. It's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it. But okay. What what about when your kid lacks important communication skills?
Speaker 3:Yeah. The inability even to communicate with you.
Speaker 2:They're just surprise surprise. They are fairly self absorbed, and they're not really thinking about how you might feel or how they're gonna come across or how their inability to communicate or do anything that is considerate might impact you. What about whenever they don't listen to you? So, hey, man. You should probably do this or you should probably do that.
Speaker 2:You should probably and they're just like, yeah. No.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, you give great advice, and you're really kinda proud of that. You give great advice. You know, it's it's it's really relevant. And and then they even agreed to it, and you're like, man, I'm I'm making a difference.
Speaker 3:What you do is you walk out of that meeting saying, I'm making a difference as a mentor. Couple of days later, you realize they did the exact opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is extremely difficult whenever you're in a faith based mentoring relationship, and your mentee is consistently and blatantly walking in sin. I mean, that is that is very, very difficult. It is hard to continue to meet with your mentee on a consistent basis knowing that they are okay with sinning. What do you do there?
Speaker 2:It is hard to stay in the game whenever that's happening. And so John and I have talked about choosing to take offense. We understand that there are times whenever you need to have these important conversations. It's okay to talk to your mentee when the time is right. Whenever you feel like the opportunity is there about: hey man, Whenever you didn't text me back for a month, that really hurt my feelings.
Speaker 2:Or hey, man. I'm super concerned about you and you're having sex or you're doing drugs, drinking alcohol. Those are all okay conversations to have for sure. What we're talking about is getting offended is your reaction to how they're treating you or what they do. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Sure. I sure hope that that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think so.
Speaker 2:Okay. Good.
Speaker 3:Again, I I think it's put well when we understand that this is the idea of the hurt happens. Right? We could even if we wanna even call it the offense, let's just say that your mentee kinda performs that offense in some way, whether it's what we mentioned or something else, and then we have that opportunity to respond to it. Right? Light is life is not what happens to us.
Speaker 3:Life is is how we respond to what happens to us. So we react negatively in 2 ways. Right? There's there's that external reaction, and that's gonna look like anger, frustration that we take a harsh tone. It's when you know someone is is not right in that in that time.
Speaker 3:Right? Or you can react internally. This is kind of the shutdown, and I'll tell you this, Zach. This is kinda my MO, man. You know?
Speaker 3:You can always know with me as kinda easygoing guy when I'm not doing too great. And, you know, you've asked me before, like, hey. Is everything okay? And you know why? Because I just kinda stopped talking.
Speaker 3:I I do the shutdown. Okay? Listeners out there, if you're thoughtful, intelligent, attractive people like me, I understand that you're probably this way as well. We just kind of we kinda quit. And, you know, this this is the danger, mentors, because here's what we can do.
Speaker 3:We can we can shut down, and we can stop pursuing. I think Zach, you put it really well, unashamed. You know, Steve was unashamed in his pursuit. And I think that when we begin to feel powerless in our mentor relationship, we can, for some reason, try to kinda gain some power back by by shutting down in some ways and saying, okay. Well, if you're not gonna respond the way I wish you would, then I'm going to begin to kinda maybe curb some of that love for you.
Speaker 3:You know? And we wouldn't say it that way, but but if we're not careful, that's exactly what we're doing. Right? And so we're gonna kind of shut it down because we're not getting what we expected out of that. So both create obstacles in the mentoring relationship that will stop progress and at at at its best.
Speaker 3:And and then at the end, at at the worst, it will work to maybe end that relationship, and that's something we never wanna do.
Speaker 2:So let's let's take a second right there just to just just to pause. Whenever we're hanging out with really anyone, but especially kids, there is going to be there are going to be ample opportunities to choose to be offended. They are going to hurt you. They are going to be rude. They are going to disrespect you.
Speaker 2:It's just going to happen. But our reaction, what we choose to do next is absolutely vital in our mentoring relationships. So what is our main job as mentors? Yes, it's our job to teach them some things. It's our job to be there, to show up.
Speaker 2:All of that is great needed. But our absolute number one job in faith based mentoring is to reflect Jesus Christ. It is to represent Jesus in a way that maybe our mentees have never experienced before. It's to represent the person of Jesus. It is our prayer that when your mentee hangs out with you, they tangibly experience the person of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:So what was Jesus like? John, what was Jesus like? You haven't seen The Chosen because you, for some reason, refused to watch it.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna choose in this moment not to be offended by what you're what you're serving up.
Speaker 2:But why I love The Chosen is because you get to actually see it. Now, obviously, let's all open up our bibles, and let's see what Jesus is like. Sure. But what do you think of when you think of the person of Jesus?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's the it's the fruits. Right? It is and it and it's these things defined. It is because god is patience, and he is kindness, and he is gentleness. And these are the things that we get to reflect on a moment by moment basis with our mentees and with those people in our lives, the compassion.
Speaker 3:And that's what we get to that's what we have the opportunity to exercise. And, unfortunately, Zach, the the issue is these fruits are often shown best in circumstances that they are challenged. Right? I mean, we pray for patients, but we really don't want certain situations in our lives that that bring about the opportunity for us to exercise it. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so here here we go. This is kind of that that funny catch 22 about this is that in order for us to be Jesus to our mentees, oftentimes, it it often requires that our mentees really kind of show the fact that they that they need us to be these things in their lives. And that's not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 2:Like, I think it's so crazy that the lord continued to be in relationship with these 12 knowing that almost all of them would desert him whenever he needed them the most. I mean, he continued to pursue Judas whenever he knew that Judas was going to betray him. At the cross, the only one left there was John. Everyone else was gone. I mean, look at Peter.
Speaker 2:Peter denied him 3 times. I don't know who you are. I have no idea who you're talking about. And Jesus knew that. And yet, he refused to be offended and continued to pursue.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is if you truly stop and think about that, there are so many words that I can say that describe that action. I mean, it's it is selfless. It is faith filled. I mean, it's a it's a tremendous feat. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And and and number 1
Speaker 3:to me, it's just purposeful, right, to say, this is my purpose and I will not be swayed by circumstances. You know? What a wonderful thing to be able to you never you never tell your mentee this, but to say, despite anything that you'd ever do, any any way that you might ever try to even offend me, I will continue to love you with the unfailing love of god. Right? I mean, that's almost it almost sounds like it's combative in a way, but it's such a beautiful, wonderful, difficult thing to to be able to express of saying that, man, I wanna love people with the kind of love that that that never wanes because of their resistance even to it.
Speaker 2:And I can talk all day about Peter and about people who have failed Jesus, but I wanna talk about myself. Like, I am consistently failing the Lord. Like, I am there are times when he asks me to do things and I just straight up don't do them. Mhmm. And I give him ample opportunities to leave me because I don't quote unquote perform like I should.
Speaker 2:But he never does. The person, the person of Jesus never leaves me. He doesn't ever sit me down and use a harsh tone and doesn't ever shout at me. He doesn't ever shut down and abandon me and stop talking to me. His actions never leave me wondering what his heart is towards me.
Speaker 2:Instead, what I what I feel and what I see when I when I think about Jesus is someone who's faithful, who's going to pursue no matter what, who will never leave me. And it's exactly like what you just said, John. I love you no matter what. Mhmm. And that is the kind of person that we are called to be in our mentoring relationship.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's the kind of mentor that I wanna be. The Lord doesn't take offense, neither should we. Mhmm. Easier said than done, my friend.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I see a lot of mentors who come to me or they call me and they talk about quitting their mentor relationship. Obviously, that's fine if there's like a move or like a job change or, hey, I'm having a kid or I get that. But I don't quite understand how you can quit a mentor relationship whenever you feel like you're not getting anywhere Or my kid's not listening to me, or my kid's being disrespectful, or my kid's acting like a kid, especially a kid who's hurt because hurt people hurt people. Or when they say this isn't working, this is a waste of my time.
Speaker 2:Even worse is whenever this kid is at his worst, they are failing school or they're having sex or they're doing drugs or they're in a gang or anything and you leave them because of that. You know, that is really hard for me to it's really hard to have me comprehend. Mhmm. So
Speaker 3:yeah. Yeah. I think most of that, it seems like, might just be kinda rooted in that that expectation. Let you know again, what did you expect? Right?
Speaker 3:Something that I love about our faith is that the Lord sees as an act of worship the fact that we bring him our worst. Right? Instead of us kinda preparing, the very best of what we can come up with and then offering it to him as if that's going to be acceptable to him, he says, no. I'm not I'm not looking for you to present yourself because your righteousness is filthy rags. In fact, what I want from you, your greatest act act of worship is going to be that you bring me your sin, that you bring me that which is filthy, that you bring me that which is unacceptable, and let me take care of that.
Speaker 3:Right? So I think about that even within the context of this mentor mentee relationship. This idea that I think what we would hope to to do is just be so effective, right, and so efficient in our leadership or our support that it will be the type of thing that someone will write a book about or, you know, that it'll be one of these one of these stand and deliver kind of movies when someone of margin comes into the lives of these people who have been forgotten or or marginalized completely and really makes a difference, you know, within an hour and a half or a semester and thinking, well, I'm just gonna turn these lives around instead of the fact that we remember that our god desires that we bring him that which is which is putrid, and and he is pleased by that because then he can do work with that. And so that we would understand that our mentees, when we just kind of even realize that that we can wanna be at a place where we can relate to them at their lowest because they realize that we are not going to forsake them, that we're not gonna deny them.
Speaker 3:They're not we're we're not looking for performance out of them. Right? We don't want them to clean themselves up before they come to us. But in fact, we wanna share in their lives, and we want to be there for them, realizing that we will remain faithful even though we can even maybe count on them being unfaithful or or the or inconsistent. Right?
Speaker 3:In a mentor mentee relationship, it is not defined and it is not about the mentee's performance or about the mentee's inconsistency. It is about it's about the mentee's needs. Right? They're the one who they're the ones who have needs. The mentors are the ones who should be prepared and ready and and prayed up and armored up and willing to get into that fight and say, what have you got?
Speaker 3:I'm here. Let's let's connect. And and no matter what.
Speaker 2:100%, John. And and I want you to hear me say that if you're in a mentoring relationship and it's just not going well, I mean, it doesn't look like you're making an impact. It doesn't look like you're effective. I have compassion for you. Like, that's that that's an extremely difficult spot to be.
Speaker 2:But what I am saying is maybe that's when your mentee needs you the most. Mhmm. And so often in mentoring relationships, what's going on on the surface is not what's really truly going on in their heart. One of my favorite sayings is, if you don't quit, you win. Eventually.
Speaker 2:Eventually, the Lord is going to be faithful. Even if you see it or not. So let's talk about how how to stay in the mentoring game whenever it's it seems like all is going wrong.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I think everything that you just said, John, to anticipate the disappointment, anticipate the conflict, know that things are going to go wrong, and just to be prepared for that to you yourself, what are the things that you can control? You can pray for him. You can be spending time with the Lord. You can be asking for more faith. Those are the things that you can control, and everything else is up to God.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. What are some more things, John?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think that I think that overlooking the offense and what that what you know? Okay. So how do we how do we stay in the game? Will we overlook the offense? And that to me maybe in itself might feel like, well, okay.
Speaker 3:Well, how do we do that? I would I would do this. I would kinda think about this. Whenever we kinda feel the the pang is that a word? It is now.
Speaker 3:Let's say when you say something to me, Zach, that it just really cuts to the bone. Alright? When I feel that that pain, what I wanna do is I wanna question that like, hey. Oh, why did that make me like, why did that offend me? Why did that make me feel even negative in some way?
Speaker 3:Really get down to the I think it's it's a point that we kinda become the detective our of our own thoughts and feelings to say, I wanna spend some time with it. Why did this comment so easily offend me that this person could just make this statement or ask this question even? And we start to feel hurt right off the bat. And that, I think, is really an important thing to do. So we start to kind of know ourselves in that.
Speaker 3:We start to maybe even offer that issue up to the Lord. Maybe they touched on something that we feel insecure about. Maybe it touched on something that we haven't dealt with. And so we grab onto that. We offer that to the Lord.
Speaker 3:But I think also this idea of being able to overlook that offense is to say, you know what? I wanna strip all of this of of all the emotion that I may be attached to it. Okay? I wanna go back to, like, an issue of of parenting. Something that I learned early on.
Speaker 3:I can't remember who taught this to me or or how it was kind of gained, but, well, I can also probably say that it was based on my own you know how you kinda learn how to parent when you look back at the good and the bad of of what our parents did to us. Right? Yeah. I can remember that there were times when it came to discipline that I very much felt like my parent was being very emotional in the time. And when my parent was emotional, it created the the largest amount of fear in my heart because of the unpredictability of that.
Speaker 3:Right? And so it reminded me that as a parent, I wanted to really make sure that my kids knew that everything was stable, that everything was okay, that even in the in a in a matter of my having to discipline them in that moment, that I was in control and that I was doing this completely, like, that my emotions were in check, that I was all here mentally, that everything that everything was fine. I can remember having to discipline my young children and being able to say, I love you very much. And what I'm having to do right now in disciplining you is not making me happy. So even though, again, we've gotta deal with this situation, it doesn't change the fact of how much I love you.
Speaker 3:And and I'll tell you, my kid maybe wasn't happy to hear that because they they knew what was coming. However, I knew that it really served them well to know that I was not responding in a in an unpredictable emotional way. And so just a reminder that in overlooking this offense, it's a lot easier to do once you've kinda checked yourself and said, I really wanna strip this completely of of any of its emotional power that would make me do or say something that I'm later going to regret.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's probably never a good idea to react in emotion. Right. I mean, that very rarely does that go well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. I wasn't gonna pay attention, but now that you're yelling at me, oh, I get it. Mhmm. There's a there's a proverb 1911. Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Roberts 18/19, a man offended is more unyielding than a strong city. So the Bible is pretty clear about just the power of offense. Mhmm. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2:Okay. So how do you stay in the mentoring game? Anticipate the conflict, know that their kids, know that they are going to disappoint you, they are going to offend you, or they are going to give you opportunities to be offended. It's our job to overlook in offense and to choose our battles well. Okay.
Speaker 2:So if you nitpick everything, that is a exhausting exercise. Mhmm. I mean, you're just gonna be having conversation after conversation after conversation, and that's not fun for you, and it's not fun for them. Absolutely. And then it's our job as adults, as mature people who follow Jesus Christ to form thick skin.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. It is a wonderful freeing way to live our lives, isn't it, when we when we just have thick skin? Mhmm. When it's kinda hard to offend us. Yeah.
Speaker 3:We can laugh things off. We can just kinda see things for how they are sometimes. It's just a matter of kind of when we might even see, like, the situation maybe behind the wheel. Right? How often are we kinda so quickly offended even as a driver?
Speaker 3:I know I get that way real quick because I just have this guy cut me off, and, oh, man, doesn't he know how important I am?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna speed up to him, and I'm
Speaker 3:not gonna look at him, but just scowl. Right. We we play these little petty games as drivers sometimes because we are made to feel like we are not important. Mhmm. And so that's a good reminder of to us as well.
Speaker 3:And you guys, what about that transgression? What if we have, you know, a terrible driving experience on our way to meet with our mentee, And then we get into that that room, and we're kind of already started. Right? Like, the we already have some chinks in our armor. We we had already prayed, Lord, be with me, you know, embolden me, empower me, protect me, allow me to be able to speak truth.
Speaker 3:And yet on the way there, you know, you've you just thought some really terrible things about other drivers. Well, this is all the reason more that we just understand. You know what? I my my state of mind is not on the table. You know?
Speaker 3:That drive over there or those words spoken by my mentee or their body language or whatever else, Lord, that I can choose to be offended by, I'm just not going to be. And so allow me just to enjoy this time to see the need at every step when I would rather feel offended in my flesh. God, by your spirit, allow me to be encouraged to pray for my mentee in that situation.
Speaker 2:And I think it's really important that we are secure in who we are in Christ.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That we don't need the mentee to validate us. We don't need them to perform a certain way to make ourselves look good or feel good. So that's how you stay in the mentoring game regardless of what your mentee is doing. Everyone wants the story. Yeah.
Speaker 2:My mentee was going down a bad road, Then I showed up, and now he's going to Harvard and he's going to become a doctor. Everyone wants that. However, there's also people out there who showed up every week, who they prayed and they invited their mentee into their home and they did everything right. And yet their mentee still acted in a way that might not have been the best. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I mean, that happens, but we can't control our mentees lives. We have no idea what's going to happen. It's just our job to toss seeds. And it's the Lord's job to do what he wants to in his timing with those seeds. So we've talked about how to
Speaker 3:stay in this game. Right? And these are some practical helps. These are, these are really good points, but let's remember, and let's talk about now, what are the main things, right, in this mentoring relationship? And how do we keep the main things the main things, Zach?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, I I want my mentee to have good character. I want them to do well in school. But I also have to know that my main job as a mentor is to help this mentee experience the love of Jesus through our relationship. The main thing is me consistently showing up.
Speaker 2:The main thing is me encouraging them and loving them no matter what. The main thing is my mentee knows that he knows that he knows that no matter how he acts or what he does, I'm gonna be in his corner. Now I'm not saying don't pay attention to those other things, but what I am saying is let's make sure and focus on the main things. And we ultimately have to trust god's sovereignty, that the lord loves this kid more than we do. And he has something for their life, and he's in control, and he's gonna make it happen whenever he darn well pleases.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. This this person may be our mentee, but but first and foremost, they are God's child. Right? So he is sovereign. He has a plan.
Speaker 3:He has been taking care to get this mentee to where he or she is up to this point long before we ever came into their lives. Right? And so so, thankfully, we are not their savior. They have a savior. His name is Jesus.
Speaker 3:We get to be a part of of the many, hopefully, in this person's life who will continue to remind that and to reflect God's love as well. So, man, I tell you what, that trusting God's sovereignty in all things is so important, and I think is something that on a moment by moment basis I mean, we this is a thing that we need to cross stitch on the pillow. This is the thing that we need to write over the door frames, like trusting that that god is sovereign, that his plan is cannot be beaten, that he is good. These are the things that I think really get us through more than anything else.
Speaker 2:It's not our job to fix our mentee. It's our job to love our mentee. And one question that we have to ask ourselves often isn't how is the Minty doing, but it's how are we doing and faithfulness over fruitfulness. So let's focus on are we being faithful. Let's focus on, are we being obedient to what the lord is asking us to do?
Speaker 2:And if we can be faithful and if we can be obedient, and most of the time, that looks like showing up consistently. That looks like being encouraging. That looks like you living your life in such a way that makes them say, How come they are acting like that? How come they responded this way whenever most people respond that way? If you can be faithful and obedient, then that's about as well as we can do as mentors.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So in college did you take tennis in college also?
Speaker 2:Do I look like I took tennis?
Speaker 3:That would be a sight to see. Like, would you have a regular size racket?
Speaker 2:I actually think tall people are tennis are good at tennis.
Speaker 3:They're good at tennis because the net's lower.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:It's almost like when you're taller, the the goal is is lower in basketball. Yeah. So in tennis, you can jump over the tennis the the the net without kinda grabbing it. Right? You could just jump over it.
Speaker 3:You could step over it with those legs?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Okay. So like me, maybe you wanted to, but I did take a couple of semesters of tennis because, man, it was easy. Got those PE creds. I remember a video, Zach. It was a certain Andre Agassi.
Speaker 3:Do you remember that? Yes. Remember that guy? And it was one of his instructional videos that we were watching. And this was like Andre when he still kinda had the hair.
Speaker 3:He had the the mullet. And he said something really important that really speaks at this point, Zach. That's where I'm going. And he said, oftentimes with your tennis, you are going to want to feel like you're not progressing. And he says, but here here's what I want you to remember.
Speaker 3:Each day, just just remember this, that you're only needing to get a day's worth better. And I think we can kinda relate that into our relationship with with our mentee when it comes to timing and when we feel like, I've just kinda hit the plateau. I'm not seeing things develop or whatever else. Listen. I think sometimes when we just understand that that that hour that we get maybe one day a week, we want this relationship to grow at a pace just an hour's worth more.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? Like, oh, man. What would it mean just to spend time with our mentee to be able to be consistent, to be faithful, to be to be positive and encouraging and realize, you know what? If I can just do that, let me be responsible for just the time that I have and realize that God's timing is perfect. That would be so good to kinda temper our expectations and realize that we are playing the long game here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I think it's always important to remember that mentoring is a marathon, not a sprint. Mhmm. And I think that's a wise word. Just focusing on loving them today.
Speaker 2:Focusing on loving on supporting them today. On being obedient to what the Lord has for you today with your mentee. And then tomorrow's a new day. Always. It's great.
Speaker 2:Mentors, if you cannot be offended in your mentoring relationship, that is a really, really, really good thing, and it's only gonna help.
Speaker 3:And so bleed over into every relationship in your life, by the way, isn't it? This is what's wonderful about that. Sometimes it will inform you know, we have these relationship issues that kind of inform our mentor mentee relationship, and sometimes as we are so thoughtful and mindful of our mentor mentee relationship, it informs all the other relationships in our lives as well. So don't build up any walls of of how you can kind of apply these things as well. It's it's pretty much how you will relate to everyone in your life when they're going to realize, hey, man, you just seem like you're doing really well these days.
Speaker 3:And you're like, you'll you know what? And it's because I've just kinda given these things to the Lord, and I'm thinking about the intentionality. I'm listening to this amazing podcast now over mentors, about mentoring, hosted by 2 friends. I would call them friends even at this point. Zach and John, they're just these 2 great guys.
Speaker 3:They live in they live in Waco wherever that is, and, I just really enjoy being equipped and encouraged by them every Thursday morning when their when their pod when their pod drops Yeah. Onto the the apps.
Speaker 2:So much so that I'm gonna pick up their books.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna read their books too.
Speaker 2:Shame on plug. Books.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. You can mentor by Zach Garza. And Mephibosheth. Wow. You said that perfectly.
Speaker 2:The power of identity, purpose, and community.
Speaker 3:Well, the search for?
Speaker 2:The search for sorry.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. Amazon just broke.
Speaker 2:Alright. Our mentors don't like us right now. Alright. Mentors, remember you can mentor. Hey.
Speaker 2:Holler at us. Okay? Send us emails. Tag us on that DM, bro. We are fixing to launch a new website.
Speaker 2:Go check that out. And if you're with a mentoring organization, I I know you that you've checked out by now, but let us put our your organization on our website. That's right. So people can learn about you Mhmm.
Speaker 3:From you. In terms of in like, being able to interview these representatives. Correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But more so just, like, give us your name and we'll link it to your website.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. We can do that without even bugging you. Yeah. We won't call you or anything.
Speaker 2:We'll just do it without permission. No. Alright. We're getting off course here. We love you.
Speaker 2:We believe in you. You can mentor. Lord Jesus, would you bless these people listening to our podcast? In Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 2:And remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 3:Next time.