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Welcome to the Men of Faith podcast where we’re dedicated to calling men up, not out, to live a life dedicated to our God.
This is more than just a podcast, it’s a community and a brotherhood. In each episode, we'll explore topics that touch the core of our spiritual and daily lives—from the sacred bonds of marriage and the joys and trials of parenthood, to practical advice on health, fitness, and managing our finances wisely.
Our journey begins now and we want you with us, so please subscribe on your favorite listening platform.
Resources:
Learn more about Project Church: https://projectchurch.com/
Connect with Project Church on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/projectchurchsac
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;11;17
Speaker 1
There's a 0.01% chance if your kid goes pro, but there's a 100% chance that your kid stands before God at the end of the night. And I was like, oh, it's real. It's a good reminder.
00;00;11;17 - 00;00;31;16
Speaker 1
You're listening to men of Faith, the podcast dedicated to calling men up and not out. Join me as we live a life dedicated to our God.
00;00;31;16 - 00;00;51;19
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the men of Faith podcast. I'm your host, Caleb Cole, and I am here with my guest today. He's been on before. Many of you know him. Formerly the youth pastor of Project Church and more recently has transitioned to a new role, as an associate pastor here at our church. But this is Sam Flurry.
00;00;51;20 - 00;00;53;01
Speaker 1
Sam. What up, what up?
00;00;53;01 - 00;00;54;21
Speaker 2
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on today.
00;00;54;27 - 00;01;13;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, man, you're looking good. Glad to have you on. Wanted to talk a little bit about your story, but this topic of, just breaking generational cycles. Yeah. And then starting a new legacy. And I think that's something that, you know, I've seen in your life. I know you've talked a little bit about your story. Yeah.
00;01;13;18 - 00;01;27;02
Speaker 1
And so maybe give, the people, the men and the women that listen. Yeah. A little bit of context or background just on, like, your upbringing as it related even to Christianity and church and all that, for sure.
00;01;27;05 - 00;01;33;14
Speaker 2
I'll try to give, like, a two minute snapshot. So I was born in Washington. Was there until.
00;01;33;14 - 00;01;36;02
Speaker 1
Like, Seahawks fan until the unfortunately.
00;01;36;05 - 00;01;53;28
Speaker 2
Tied for first in division. Was born in Washington. Was there till about the age of 4 or 5. All my family was up there, which is a small family. I was raised by my dad alone. My mother. At a young age. Had gotten addicted to drugs, had left our family. So my dad was a single dad raising me and my brother.
00;01;54;00 - 00;02;18;01
Speaker 2
Which is tough on a construction income. And then he met what would be later, and now is his, his wife. And so we would move at the age of four down to California. And so moving out of a dysfunctional environment. Being raised by a single dad. Mom not being in the picture. Into a very another very dysfunctional environment that I would be in until I was 18 to move out.
00;02;18;03 - 00;02;35;24
Speaker 2
But up until I was 16 years old. And I'm sure we'll get into some more of this. I don't think I'd ever really thought about God. Like we. There was no church background. Church wasn't even in my mind. A relationship with God was certainly not on my mind. And not because it was something I was ignoring, but something I think I was completely unaware of.
00;02;35;27 - 00;02;55;25
Speaker 2
And had a really great guy, a youth pastor at the time who had, had a great resource called the Lord's Gym that their church owned that was using a as an evangelistic resource. And it worked. I started going to church. And then my church background at that point was I kept going because there was a cute girl, which is a bad reason to go, but God even then blessed that and got my heart.
00;02;55;27 - 00;03;16;12
Speaker 2
And I'm now married to Cali, which is the girl I was going for. And that kept me in church for a lot of years. And then, I finally I graduate high school at the age of 18, and, me and Cali at that point were broken up. And then I had a really God moment in my dorm room, which Friday nights were always designated to go into parties, get on the light rail because I don't have a car going to a party.
00;03;16;14 - 00;03;39;10
Speaker 2
And one Friday night just decided that I wasn't going to do that and stayed in my dorm room. And I think I just said that that night, like, I was very aware of my brokenness and where I was and, even where we're going with this podcast today, I was very aware of my upbringing. And looking at my future and just thinking, man, if my life up to this point, has been the way that it is and, and, and having this perception that it's always going to be this way, that I really just wasn't happy and didn't really want to be alive.
00;03;39;10 - 00;03;53;18
Speaker 2
And so I was really aware of that. And I think that the middle of that, that crisis, God met me. And I would say that that was the moment I truly surrendered my life to God, because the presence of God showed up in a powerful way. I was hungry for the word of God each, every day.
00;03;53;18 - 00;04;04;17
Speaker 2
Like we used to have a whiteboard in my dorm room. That was. We put on what we're gonna be doing on Friday nights and where we're going to be and the things we're going to be doing. And and then it started filling up with Scripture. So people come in and just see Scripture all over that they would be asking me.
00;04;04;17 - 00;04;21;19
Speaker 2
And it was in that moment, like God became really real to me. And so, yeah, just from 12 years, 12 years ago to now, it's been marked by following Jesus. But there's a lot that happened all in that, with family, upbringing and, and, that's been very dynamic and how even how God's worked in all of that.
00;04;21;22 - 00;04;41;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, powerful obviously testimony and probably a lot of the people that know you maybe even go to our church have never heard that part of your story. Yeah. And so I'm curious, you know, as you surrendered your heart to Jesus, you know, you're 18, you're like, all right, I'm gonna live for the Lord. Yeah.
00;04;41;11 - 00;04;54;25
Speaker 1
Was there a thought of, starting a new legacy or, you know, breaking generational cycles? Was that in your mind, or are you just like, I'm going after Jesus? And that was more the focus.
00;04;54;27 - 00;05;12;28
Speaker 2
We're going to go deep now. I'm just curious. We're going in. So there's a lot that that's with that. I think one of the first scriptures, that really mark my life and even to this day, and I'm going to share a little bit of is Jeremiah one five, where the prophet Jeremiah is writing that, that eventually God has chosen him and set him apart.
00;05;13;00 - 00;05;30;06
Speaker 2
And that the rest of his life, because he was chosen, was going to be different. And I encourage you read that scripture, Jeremiah one five. Yeah. When I read that, I don't think legacy was in my mind. And I think this word, especially in like the Christian context, is thrown around really, for sure, sometimes kind of loosely, where we like legacy is just attributed to to good things.
00;05;30;06 - 00;05;46;01
Speaker 2
Leaving a good legacy, a healthy legacy. But there's unhealthy legacy. There's brokenness, there's addiction. There's a lot of things that are passed down. And I think when I gave my life to Jesus, one of the first things that I felt he he was speaking to me through that scripture was like me receiving salvation in this new life.
00;05;46;01 - 00;05;58;03
Speaker 2
It was going to start with me, but it wasn't going to end with me. Yeah, and I felt like there was a duty at that point in my life that like, yes, I had to let this change my life, but then I needed to take this, take the good news to my family, to the people I didn't know.
00;05;58;03 - 00;06;12;21
Speaker 2
And obviously, this is like we're talking a great commission. Like I felt all that starting to happen. Yeah, but it did. The first I was like, man, I thought I was praying for my parents. I was praying for my brother. And even just taking this back for a moment or actually let me take it forward before I take it backwards, paying it forward.
00;06;12;23 - 00;06;34;16
Speaker 2
Many people know the story of Maverick when Maverick passed over to being two months old. That scripture was one. That was I was still holding on because I felt like God was saying, hey, you're going to transform your family. And not just my parents, my brother, but the kids that come after me. Yeah. And so even not understanding and still wrestling with the question of and just not understanding why his time on earth had to come to an end.
00;06;34;19 - 00;06;48;24
Speaker 2
Even on the back of his, his gravestone is Jeremiah one five. I have that on there. Every time I go there. It's a reminder to me that it starts with me. But it didn't stop with me and our future kids and family. When they had a chance to see Maverick Story, got to know that side of my story.
00;06;48;24 - 00;07;08;13
Speaker 2
Not taking it backwards. My mother, when I said she left at the age, like 2 or 3. I didn't hear from her. Not a phone call, not a letter. Nothing. For 16 years, I gave my life to Jesus. 18. My dorm room. I felt like the first thing God asked me to do was to travel back up to Washington, where I had not been since I left to go find her.
00;07;08;13 - 00;07;24;21
Speaker 2
Now, this is a whole long story I won't get into. She was off the grid. It was impossible to find her. I didn't know any of her side of the family. And I was up in Washington for a month with a sole purpose. I'm going to find her and tell her I forgive her. In the last day I'm up there, I get a random face Facebook message from her sister, who I'd never met before.
00;07;24;21 - 00;07;39;12
Speaker 2
My aunt. That was like, I know where she's at. And I think it'd be great for you guys to meet. So, long story short, we end up meeting. And I look her in the face, and I didn't know she looked like. Because I just hadn't seen her before. Yeah, but I knew it was my mom. So we sat down, we had this conversation, and virtually in this moment, she sent me.
00;07;39;12 - 00;07;54;20
Speaker 2
Hey, I'm not going to change. Like I've been a drug addict my whole life. I've been broken. Like, this is just. It's all I know. This is a negative legacy that I carry. And I felt like in that moment. Like how powerful. Just the, the reality of forgiveness is because it's changed my life. I can certainly change hers.
00;07;54;22 - 00;08;07;18
Speaker 2
And so I told her all that God had done my life, that God forgave me, and that it would be the greatest purpose of my life to tell her, hey, I forgive you as well. And I'd love to say, like, we left that moment and she's like, my whole life changed. But it wasn't that way. She looked me in the eyes like, it's not going to change.
00;08;07;18 - 00;08;29;10
Speaker 2
It's just who I am. Yeah. And then years later, two years later, I'm married to Carly, and in the first month, I get a message on Facebook, shout out Facebook, whoever still uses that. And she said, I hadn't talked to her since that moment. And she messaged me and says, I just want you to know that since that moment, I really thought a lot about, you know, the story of Jesus and the forgiveness that he offers us.
00;08;29;13 - 00;08;47;23
Speaker 2
And she said, I actually admitted myself into a dream center and shout out Dream Center. They do great work in Spokane and I've cleaned up, I've been off drugs for a year and actually serving in the local church. I've given my life to Jesus, and now I'm helping girls that are stuck in sex trafficking, that are using that money to to purchase drugs to get free from that life.
00;08;47;23 - 00;09;11;27
Speaker 2
And obviously, that was not my intent. My intent was like, yeah, yeah, I want your life to change. His mind has and it's cool to see how God used that, that small moment of forgiveness to really change somebody's life. And so to answer your question about legacy, like, all these things did not cross my mind. When I gave my life to Jesus, I think when I did that, I said, not only am I running my life to Jesus, but I'm also saying, you can have my yes for whatever you asked me to do that.
00;09;11;27 - 00;09;17;16
Speaker 2
That's really where I started finding that like, legacy is just built. I think a lot of time in our Yes to God. Yes.
00;09;17;22 - 00;09;40;17
Speaker 1
So yeah. Oh man, that's super powerful. I actually didn't know that whole part of the story with your mom. But man, what a testimony to what God did in your life. And then even your. Yes, in your obedience. Yeah. And what that led to, I'm sure, going up there to see your mom. There was a lot of feelings and emotions and apprehension, and I don't know whatever else.
00;09;40;17 - 00;09;42;27
Speaker 1
How old were your. How old were you in that?
00;09;42;27 - 00;09;57;10
Speaker 2
18. Oh, I was when you were 18. I was young, so. Yeah, I had that moment with God. Okay, I left, I think I like $200 in my bank account. I had zero support. Luckily, I had an uncle that lived up in the area, so I stayed with them for a month. But, yeah, I was 18.
00;09;57;10 - 00;10;12;04
Speaker 2
Like I when I say like I had known I had known the story of Jesus because I had been in youth group for probably two years. But it was never really real to me. Yeah. I was in that moment, like, I was caught in this moment where I was still very much looking at the past. My past life.
00;10;12;04 - 00;10;27;15
Speaker 2
I was looking up, thinking about like, my father and even my grandfather and their story. And like, just all the brokenness in our family and thinking, man, I'm just going to continue to repeat all the things that have went before me that I knew that if I took this step, it possibly had the chance to begin to change things in me.
00;10;27;15 - 00;10;36;10
Speaker 2
And it did. So I was 18 and I was really new in my faith. But but I think that's where it became real for me is like just taking the step of faith out.
00;10;36;12 - 00;11;00;25
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's incredible. I'm curious, you know, obviously, like you said, there's different legacies, and some of them are positive. Some of them are negative. I mean, you came from one of unhealthy dysfunction. Drug addiction. Yeah. And you've begun something new, right? And it's something healthy, God honoring. Beautiful. Yeah. You know, I have a different story of, like, coming.
00;11;00;25 - 00;11;24;06
Speaker 1
I'm a third generation pastor, and. Yeah, you know, like, had this legacy that started with my grandfather, actually, he started, you know, his dad died when he was 12 years old. So, you know, mostly raised by his mom, single mom. And then he felt a call to ministry, you know, they they went to church, but, yeah, ministry wasn't a part of their past history.
00;11;24;07 - 00;11;42;09
Speaker 1
So I know that for him, you know, he talked to me a lot about how he and it it actually helped him and it he used it to his advantage. But he talked about how for a lot of years, you know, there was a proving like he had to prove himself, you know, because he didn't come from that legacy.
00;11;42;09 - 00;11;46;12
Speaker 1
He didn't come from you know, the right pedigree, so to say.
00;11;46;12 - 00;11;47;18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;11;47;21 - 00;12;08;22
Speaker 1
And so I'm curious, like, have you ever felt any of that, like, as someone who, man, your first generation, your first person in your family and ministry and yeah, here you are, like leading and growing ministry and like, obviously God's using you. Yeah. But has there ever been, you know, anything internal that you've battled in that or trying to prove or anything like that?
00;12;08;25 - 00;12;28;17
Speaker 2
Yeah for sure. I think I think obviously I think as men we're always probably to the level we're trying to prove ourself for sure. I remember actually before I took the staff position here, I was actually leaving the church I was at before, and, the pastor wrote me a written me a card. And the last sentence in that card was, you don't have to prove yourself to anybody.
00;12;28;19 - 00;12;53;26
Speaker 2
And it's really apparent when you're trying to prove yourself. I guess I didn't know that. Yeah, I thought it was something that you can hide, but I think it's always pretty clear to people when you're trying to prove yourself. But when it comes to ministry, I think to this day, there's still probably bits of that where I, you know, I'm around people who are quote unquote successful, and they have the degrees and they have they they've they've been in the church world, and I'm probably a little bit more like Paul who kind of had like a screwed up life.
00;12;53;26 - 00;13;11;02
Speaker 2
And, and my family story that I have is my testimony and the things that God's done through that I maybe don't have all the degrees and all like the upbringing. So I would say, I think that there's a little bit of that that I struggle with, but I think more than anything, I think God just blesses.
00;13;11;02 - 00;13;30;21
Speaker 2
For me, what I found is God just blesses the like my testimony that I do have because it is unique. Your story is unique and that God blesses that. But I think that there is at times some wrestling with not feeling like maybe I'm adequate or I have the knowledge and and I think on the at the end of the day, I think that just brings me back to the reminder of like, you know, even the disciples, they weren't trained.
00;13;30;21 - 00;13;52;11
Speaker 2
Their ordinary man. And the best resource in the world that we have is the presence of God. And, I don't I'm not saying don't go to college and don't further your knowledge of scriptures and of God, but, I don't know. I mean, I did two years of Bible school, and I will say this, I think I've learned more about ministry and more about God in in our prayer rooms and in these private times with God than I ever learned in college.
00;13;52;11 - 00;14;03;19
Speaker 2
But, but there for sure, in some moments where I'm like, hey, maybe, maybe I don't know as much or I don't have a I don't have the resources. And some of these other people have. I think it's ever been something that has necessarily held me back.
00;14;03;25 - 00;14;26;09
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, I don't think so either. I was just curious because I know even me coming from the family I came from, I've carried like a chip on my shoulder. Yeah. And I found, I found it to be motivating, you know, and for me, it was like, you know, a little bit of my story is my, my dad was never a lead pastor, so he was always kind of like in the shadow.
00;14;26;09 - 00;14;46;22
Speaker 1
My uncle pastored a church. My grandfather passed in a church. My dad always just, you know, was in a support role. Yeah, yeah. And so there was this thing in me that always felt like, oh, they just saw us as, like the other kids, because that's my last name, right? Yeah. So we're the other calls. We were the other family, not the prominent ones.
00;14;46;22 - 00;15;12;08
Speaker 1
And so I had this chip, my shoulder, like, I'm going to prove to you all that I'm actually the best. Yeah. And it was unhealthy at times. And, I will say I've probably worked through more of that now to where, like, I'm flowing from a healthier place of leading and, for, for many years now. But early on in ministry, I was like, I actually a big reason that I grew up here in Sacramento, went to college in Missouri.
00;15;12;11 - 00;15;38;11
Speaker 1
I had a job offers back here. The church I grew up in offered me a job out of college, and I took a job in Massachusetts. And a big reason was because, like, I'm going to prove that I don't need anyone. Yeah. Or anything. Yeah. Like, I can do this on my own. And I think there's a lot of guys that probably resonate with that, because that's how they felt like chip on their shoulder that Michael Jordan mentality, you know, like everybody's, everybody's against me.
00;15;38;11 - 00;15;58;25
Speaker 1
Everyone's doubting me. But sometimes I found in my life that that that space and place was unhealthy and it was an unhealthy motivator. Competition. God can use it. And I'm very competitive. But it can also be an unhealthy motivator because to where? It never feels like I'm enough, right? Yeah, yeah. I'm never doing enough. I'm never accomplishing enough.
00;15;58;25 - 00;16;19;21
Speaker 1
I'm still trying to prove myself. And like just a reminder that, like, God loves us just as we are. Yeah. No matter our background, upbringing, family. Yeah. You know, like pedigree, education level. And I love that, you know, you seen that and and you seen even that. Who did God use in the in the beginning. The disciples. Right.
00;16;19;21 - 00;16;37;20
Speaker 1
These are, these were ordinary young men and that's, you know, who he used. And elevated. And so I love that God's like done this thing in your life saying, because you are unique, man. There's not a lot of people like you. You know, that that came from where you came from and have done and and built what you've built.
00;16;37;20 - 00;16;57;17
Speaker 1
And so, I'm curious just even about, like, your family, how you lead, Carley, like. Yeah. What have you looked to for inspiration to be like, this is what a healthy marriage looks like. This is what a God honoring father looks like for my sons. Like, where have you, you know, found, I guess, like, the inspiration, the guidance.
00;16;57;17 - 00;16;59;08
Speaker 1
Or maybe it's just like me and the Lord.
00;16;59;09 - 00;17;16;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, a lot of it is, like you said, mean the Lord. But I think, I heard it said this way last week. Like, we, we live in a, culture today that's like very there's consumerism. But then maybe one of the more dangerous ones is like, individualism. Like, I can do this. Just me and God.
00;17;16;26 - 00;17;35;21
Speaker 2
And I've seen the negative side of that. I've seen some of the positive side of that in my own life. I think I would probably point to community. I don't really, and I don't want this to sound like a negative thing, but I don't spend a lot of time around people, as I would call you a mentor if I don't actually think that there's something I can learn from you.
00;17;35;23 - 00;17;50;22
Speaker 2
And so, like, you know, obviously, we hang out with you and Chrissy. We have things to learn from you. I have other friends that are a bit older that have maybe their kids have moved out or they're a little bit older that have been through this. And, they have some positive things to teach us. And they also have some areas where they're like, hey, I fell short here when it came to parenting or even being a husband.
00;17;50;22 - 00;18;09;04
Speaker 2
And, I at least right now, that's one thing that I'm learning, is I'm asking a lot of questions to dads that have been in this space, and they've had young kids because I didn't realize how challenging it was until I got here, how much more challenging it is to date your wife when you have young kids in your home, or to be really intentional when you have like zero energy left at the end of the day and how to connect.
00;18;09;04 - 00;18;23;22
Speaker 2
And so, I would say for me, a big, big portion of that is like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta have my time with God every day. To get my perspective right. I got to learn how to be that, that, that husband that Paul talks about that loves your wife is Christ. Love the church. I always have to be the one that you know.
00;18;23;22 - 00;18;43;25
Speaker 2
Proverbs talks about how to train your child. And like, these are things that like, no amount of head knowledge will will be able to actually like train me doing it. So I need community around me. I need other dads and husbands that are doing things right. And there are a few people that, like my friendship might be based on them, purely off of me having a conversation saying like, hey, I really admire how you are a parent to your kids.
00;18;43;25 - 00;18;59;22
Speaker 2
Like, I didn't have a I did not have a good model of a father. And and to be very transparent, even now at the age of 30 with kids are two and a half, you know, every, every dad says, I'm not going to do things the way x, y, z my mom did or my dad. And then you have kids and you realize that there's some of those things in you.
00;18;59;24 - 00;19;16;02
Speaker 2
You know, they say, like, you might have a grandpa in your, in your, in your boat, or you might have Jesus in your heart, but you can have a grandpa on your bones, like you still got some of your past in you. And, the older I kids get in, the more I'm finding, like, the reality and the truth of that, the more I realize I got to get around people who are intention to do it.
00;19;16;02 - 00;19;30;06
Speaker 2
So time with God. There's a lot of great resources. One book I'm telling everybody to get is, habits of the household. It's a great book. It teaches you how to raise kids intentionally. But then, yeah, just community with people who are, like, really doing things well has been a great resource to me.
00;19;30;08 - 00;19;49;26
Speaker 1
That's cool. I love that you, you know, you're learning and gleaning from all these other areas. Another book that I would recommend, how is that household is great. As your kids get a little older to you, in disciplining them is loving your kids on purpose. And Danny so great model of like parenting. And this is just for all the guys out there.
00;19;49;28 - 00;20;07;12
Speaker 1
I encourage you if you're trying to figure out how do I discipline, how do I lead my kids, how do I have those hard conversations? That book really transformed how I, parenting my sons. And maybe we get shift gears and go there. Yeah. Because you're you're we've been talking about legacy. Obviously, we heard your story.
00;20;07;15 - 00;20;34;07
Speaker 1
Incredible what God's done. And now you're raising young boys. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the middle of now raising, you know, some borderline young men. Yeah, because my boys are 12 and just turned 14. Yeah. And so thinking about that, you know, what's, I just know there's a lot of guys listening, a lot of guys watching that have young sons or maybe teenage sons all in between, you know.
00;20;34;07 - 00;20;49;04
Speaker 1
What are you thinking about intentionally when it comes to legacy, when it as it relates to your two sons? Your twins. Yeah. Who keep you busy and exhaust you. But also, obviously you're thinking like, here's what I want in terms of legacy for them.
00;20;49;06 - 00;21;07;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think like, maybe I need to probably spend a little bit more time, as you're saying that, like thinking like long term legacy. I think the only thing that really, really matters to me is that I raise young men of God, in that and just even coming from a pastor, I will say like my goal for them, like I'm my goal for raising young men of God is not to raise young men who are pastors.
00;21;07;06 - 00;21;27;29
Speaker 2
It's to raise young men who are confident of great character and integrity, whatever that looks like, wherever God takes them. I would say one thing that maybe just at this stage that I'm the most aware of, and this ties back into legacy is like anything that is a strength or anything that I struggle with is potentially something that I will pass down to them.
00;21;28;02 - 00;21;45;21
Speaker 2
And, and even as, you know, like as a, as a young father myself, I would still say I'm young is I still got things that I struggle with. You know, you talked about a minute ago, which you probably have a whole podcast on the reality that most, if not all men struggle with this feeling of I'm not enough and what that causes to come out of our life.
00;21;45;23 - 00;22;02;20
Speaker 2
But I know the things that I struggle with, I'm really aware of, like, man, I need God to come in and heal these things. I need to be transparent, vulnerable, with community about these things. Because if I even secretly struggle with things, I secretly keep things to myself. And I think that I'm hiding them. Like we just talk about even trying to hide the not the feelings of not being enough.
00;22;02;24 - 00;22;20;14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I will raise kids that they can see that just like everybody else can, and they might actually start living a life of, of doing that because that's just naturally what I'm showing them, even I'm trying to hide it. So I would say, like, since my kids were born, one thing that I've been really cognizant of is trying to actually identify some of my weaknesses.
00;22;20;14 - 00;22;38;26
Speaker 2
And it's not to say like, my goal is not perfection. My goal is progress, but trying to identify these areas of my life and be honest about them, be transparent, bring them to people and try to grow through them. Because I want them to see like as they're getting older, their dad's not perfect. He actually has things that you struggle with, but there is a way to overcoming it to get better through those things.
00;22;38;26 - 00;22;54;29
Speaker 2
And so I think that's one big thing, especially in like a generation now I'm seeing a lot of young people, they struggle silently. They keep it to themselves. And it's like, you know, we need to be honest and transparent. That's a hard thing to do for anybody, especially men. But that's one thing I'm trying to identify, like, what are my strengths and pass those down.
00;22;54;29 - 00;23;12;13
Speaker 2
What are my struggles in trying to really heal through these things so that I don't pass those down? And I will say another great resource has been therapy. It's helped me identify some things that might have went unchecked that were not even hitting the radar. Yeah. That were a lot louder in my life than I actually ever thought they were.
00;23;12;16 - 00;23;30;13
Speaker 2
So yeah, I think I think my struggle for me, I'm really aware of them. Yeah. But my, my personality type, to be honest, is I tend to critique before I celebrate, and I'm trying to learn the difference and trying to learn how to change the order of those things. So for critiquing myself, I can always identify my struggles.
00;23;30;15 - 00;23;44;22
Speaker 2
But I also think it's been a strength in the regard of like, hey, I need to work on these things and heal through these and bring them to people. So yeah, I think obviously I don't want my kids to ever see, like, there's this perfect version of me because I've seen families try to present that, and that's that's not the way to go.
00;23;44;22 - 00;23;54;13
Speaker 2
I want them to see their father in progress, but always trying to attack those things. And grow through them. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that when it comes to legacy is I'm trying to pass on the best things and work through the hardest things.
00;23;54;18 - 00;24;13;00
Speaker 1
Well, that growth mindset is huge, right? Like that. They see. Yeah, my dad isn't perfect. None of us are. But the areas that he does fall short, he's not happy with them. He's not going I just want to stay this way. It is what it is now. You're growing. And I think that's a huge legacy that we're going to leave.
00;24;13;03 - 00;24;29;05
Speaker 1
And I'm the same way. I've always said to my boys, like, I don't want you guys to be pastors unless God calls you to that, right? Like I'm not pushing that on them. Yeah. I want you to love God. Prioritize the house of God, right? Raise your children in the things, in the ways of God. Yeah. Love the Word of God.
00;24;29;05 - 00;24;47;13
Speaker 1
Like that's what I want for them. And so that's what I'm trying to instill to them, not be leaders and pastor. Yeah. You know, like you have to have a call. Yeah. To that, you know, that anyone who's not called, they don't last in this. Right? You've been doing a long time now, Sam. Like, to give you props, right?
00;24;47;13 - 00;25;11;15
Speaker 1
Most minutes. Most pastors don't last more than five years. Yeah. And you're. Well past that now. And so what I love that you're saying is this growth mindset, but also that you know that God would be the priority for what you're imparting to them. Because, look, we're both athletes. We love sports. Of course, you want your boys to be athletes and play sports.
00;25;11;19 - 00;25;12;08
Speaker 1
I mean, I guess.
00;25;12;08 - 00;25;12;29
Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%.
00;25;12;29 - 00;25;42;05
Speaker 1
And I know I did. Yeah. But the older that I get and they get, I think the more I'm just reminded like that's secondary. Yeah. You know, like I'm still going to give them opportunity and I'm still going to love to, you know coach their teams and be sports with them. But if I'm spending more time in that than I am in the things of God and pointing them to God and they see me reading my word and like all this stuff, like, what am I really imparting to them that that athletics and sports is my legacy to them?
00;25;42;05 - 00;26;00;21
Speaker 1
Like, I don't want that to be the case. Yeah. And so I would say, you know, as I've gotten older, I've shifted more to like me. More of my conversations with them are about the word God, what they're going to, how they're going to honor God with decisions they're making. Right. And probably when I was younger, prior, if I could go back and tell my 31 year old.
00;26;00;21 - 00;26;22;11
Speaker 1
So I'll be like, hey, focus on that God thing more than anything else. Yeah. You know, and I, you know, I have an issue right now and just, you know, to talk to the dads out there. I think too many of us dads because there's a lot of athletes in our church. Yeah. Former athletes. We we are trying to live vicariously through our kids.
00;26;22;14 - 00;26;29;02
Speaker 1
We're trying to give them opportunities maybe we didn't have, but in turn, we're making that the focus, right? Rather than the things of God.
00;26;29;02 - 00;26;30;09
Speaker 2
The focus. Yeah. Yeah.
00;26;30;11 - 00;26;35;24
Speaker 1
I'm sure you can talk about it because you've been a youth pastor and you've seen it.
00;26;35;27 - 00;26;52;08
Speaker 2
I see it all the time. I mean, yeah, not even with like just students that are teenagers. But now, I mean, younger kids, you know, things are starting way, way younger with with kids. And, I mean, my niece is doing travel soccer, and it's absurd to me how much time it takes. And, you know, we're all going to get to that point where it's a lot.
00;26;52;08 - 00;27;13;18
Speaker 2
But I yeah, I mean, I think you said it best. I don't think I even need to say anything. I think God has to be the primary thing and not the secondary thing. And if we as parents are not showing in every season of life that the house of God is important, and being there and being in community and and growing with, you know, with your relationship with God in the church, if that's the secondary thing.
00;27;13;18 - 00;27;34;15
Speaker 2
I mean, I've seen it as a youth pastor, like you said, where if it's not the primary thing, you're going to graduate high school and their faith won't be that important, and they'll leave the church. Yeah. I mean, there's there's crazy statistics right now that have been saying that students that are 18, they graduate high school, like the the percent of them that are leaving the church are not coming back for decades, like almost like 70%.
00;27;34;17 - 00;27;35;20
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;27;35;22 - 00;27;56;29
Speaker 2
That's scary, you know, because a lot can happen in ten years. I think back to when I was 20 to where I am today. A lot can happen in ten years. Yeah. And if they don't have a place to come back to a church, to come back to a relationship with God, to come back to, you want to talk about like where, where is reality is like where, where a negative legacy is built to those moments where you're not really intentional about coming to God.
00;27;57;05 - 00;28;13;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, yeah, I think parents need to be really intentional about like, hey, I'm just going to say, like Sundays. That is time for God. Sunday is a Sabbath rest. You prioritize God if it means missing practice, missing a game. There'll be a lot more to play, you know, so I would I would say prioritize Sunday mornings meeting with God.
00;28;13;17 - 00;28;30;21
Speaker 1
Talk about it. Sam. What did I hear? The this the quote was, there's a point 0.01% chance if your kid goes pro, but there's a 100% chance that your kid stands before God at the end of the year. And I was like, oh.
00;28;30;29 - 00;28;31;29
Speaker 2
It's it's real.
00;28;31;29 - 00;29;00;04
Speaker 1
It's a good reminder. Yep. And so look, there's no shades. Anybody who's doing travel sports or, they're, they have prioritized sports. But ultimately it's like, yeah, man, what legacy are we going to leave? And is God a priority? You can you can love sports and that be a priority. But God has to be the primary legacy that we're leaving for our children and for the next generation, because that's what's going to matter in eternity and for generations to come.
00;29;00;04 - 00;29;20;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, I think that's what we miss is what you've done, bro. Like what God did in your life, I should say. But your response to that. Yeah. Because we can say yes or no to God, right? Your response to that? Your yes to him over and over. Yes. Yes to ministry. Yes to pastoring. All this.
00;29;20;10 - 00;29;40;09
Speaker 1
There's going to be, I know, generations that will be changed because of it. I mean, already your mom has been impacted generations to come. And that's the same way. Like, for all the guys listening like this is, this isn't just about you. Yeah. And it's not even just about you and your kids. It's about your kids. Kids?
00;29;40;09 - 00;30;00;13
Speaker 1
Yeah. And eventually your kids, kids, kids. I mean, I'm a I'm a result of that. Yeah. Right. And so that's my encouragement because I think legacy we think in the the minute we think in the moment. Yeah. We're moment people. We're living moment to moment. And it's just this moment. And I think we have to think bigger than that.
00;30;00;13 - 00;30;01;00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;30;01;02 - 00;30;23;09
Speaker 2
And you also just preached a great message on that a couple weeks ago. So go to YouTube Project Church Sacramento, find that, I know we're probably getting ready to wrap up, but there was one thing I wanted to say about leaving legacy. You know, now I've told you the backstory. A lot of people actually don't know the sound of, you know, this, but a month ago, I was going to my niece's wedding up in, Glacier National Park, Montana.
00;30;23;09 - 00;30;43;08
Speaker 2
Shout out, beautiful spot. And, I made the decision. My wife, Carly, had always wanted to see where I grew up. I've been avoiding my. There's nothing to go back there and see. We decided to fly to Spokane and drive five hours to Montana simply and purely so she could go in. She could see where I was, where I was raised, where, ask me all the questions.
00;30;43;08 - 00;31;00;03
Speaker 2
She wanted to, you know, actually, the book intentional father, if you have young or older kids, one of the things that it recommends is doing this. Yeah, my kids will remember this, but it was good for me and Carly to bond. Yeah. To go back in to see a, I would say like a moment of my life that for most of it, I've kept it, like, nicely locked away, stored in a room.
00;31;00;03 - 00;31;14;12
Speaker 2
It's like, you know, God done so much, but, like, I don't really want to talk about, I want to address I'm going to leave it there. But we made a decision to go there. She had to meet my aunt, my aunt and uncle. She got to meet my grandfather. And there's a lot of great connection that came from actually letting her into that.
00;31;14;12 - 00;31;31;28
Speaker 2
And I think a lot of husbands maybe miss because we don't want to talk about certain things, but, like, you might actually find greater connection with your kids and your spouse if you let them in and some of these things that you're trying to shut out. But when I was up there where I'm getting with legacy is, you know, growing up, my grandfather to me was always like, man, this is the greatest guy.
00;31;31;29 - 00;31;47;23
Speaker 2
Like, I love this guy, and I have very few memories of them, but all the ones I have where I was young and they were great. Yeah. And, what I realized is, like, when we're young, there's going to be a weird word. I'm going to try to articulate it well is we tend to, like, romanticize. Yes. Like our grandparents and our parents.
00;31;47;23 - 00;32;02;16
Speaker 2
When we're young, we think they're the greatest. And you know, we should see our grandparents, our parents as the greatest people. The older you get now, you start seeing things life differently. And I started seeing, man, my grandpa has some brokenness like, I can hear in the way that he talks. I can hear when he shares his story with me.
00;32;02;19 - 00;32;18;23
Speaker 2
Then I can see because of him. I can see why my my dad had some of the problems that he had, some of the anger that he had, some of the issues that he had. And it took me in this moment that when I start, I think about legacy, because I was thinking about that moment of, for most of my life I had romanticize these people.
00;32;18;25 - 00;32;46;01
Speaker 2
And the older I got, I started actually moving out of, like, this romanticism, and I started moving into humanization. Like I started humanizing them, like man. And when I humanize me, like I had compassion for them, I'm like, man, like they had brokenness passed down, passed down, passed down. Like that's all they knew. And and it was really humbling for me and brought a lot of gratitude in my heart of like, God, I'm so thankful that you met me in my brokenness and you changed me because I still love these people.
00;32;46;01 - 00;33;07;09
Speaker 2
But I'm not like them because from a very young age, even before I knew God, I always felt like these. Like churchy words I'd say now. Like I felt like I was set apart. Like I didn't feel like I was like my parents didn't feel like I was like my family. Yeah. And yeah, it was just it was a it was a like a wild moment for me where I started having compassion, where I didn't before, from my dad and from my grandparents.
00;33;07;11 - 00;33;23;09
Speaker 2
And so I would just say, like when you're thinking about, you're talking about seeing the long game in legacy, I think it's easy to look back and whether we, like, we were like, give them our parents higher praise than we should, or we were more angry and bitter at them than we should be, that we start moving into this place of like we humanize them as people.
00;33;23;16 - 00;33;42;19
Speaker 2
We understand that there's brokenness that they receive, and it's maybe all they knew, and they didn't know how to get healed or didn't know how to get better. They didn't know God in you do. And if that's your reality that you start humanizing them, and then what you're going to find is like, man, you'll have so much more empathy and compassion for them, and then you can really start sharing your testimony, what God's done in you to start changing their life.
00;33;42;19 - 00;33;55;05
Speaker 2
And that's where I think legacy starts. Being born, is when we just have compassion for people, you know, like, yeah, man. You know, for all of us, we're not where we want to be today. There's there's great vision for all of our lives and dreams, but we're not where we used to be. And that can be the reality for everybody.
00;33;55;05 - 00;33;57;13
Speaker 2
When we start having compassion for them and speaking that over them to.
00;33;57;21 - 00;34;20;27
Speaker 1
Now, that's powerful. I think it's such a reminder just how, you know, hurt brokenness is passed on. And and sometimes we can demonize people. Yeah, you romanticize them, but we can also demonize them when in reality we need to just humanize them. Right. That's what you were saying, which is, look, they had hurt and brokenness, dysfunction passed on to them.
00;34;20;27 - 00;34;43;07
Speaker 1
And it's why they battled what they battled. Yeah. I need to have compassion and, and pray and, you know, and intercede for them that God can keep working in their heart, in their life. And then I understand more to, yeah, why they did the things they did, operated the way they operate. I mean, I always say, like, look, we have no excuse as followers of Christ, we should be better than our parents.
00;34;43;13 - 00;34;59;07
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, that's how I feel. I had amazing parents, but I'm like, I want to do some things different. Yeah, right. I want to learn from some of their mistakes. I want to be better in some of these areas. And I felt like maybe they fell a little short because they weren't perfect, because they were human. I hope my kids do the same.
00;34;59;07 - 00;35;14;27
Speaker 1
Yeah, right. And they parent even better than I parent did and lead better than I lead. Yeah. And so ultimately like that's what legacy looks like is we're learning. We're going we have the growth mindset that you talked about. And so to give guys a call up I'll give you a minute to think about your call up for them.
00;35;15;00 - 00;35;35;07
Speaker 1
I'll I'll say call it for me. For you guys. Is that you would just really start thinking about and processing. What kind of legacy do you want to leave? What do you want to leave? Because unless you know what you want to leave, you won't know how to get there. Yeah. And so really start think about what legacy do I want for my kids, for my grandkids, and then what do I need to do?
00;35;35;08 - 00;35;44;19
Speaker 1
What what steps do I need to take? What changes do I need to make? Yeah. To begin to, to more, better formulate the legacy that I want left behind for me.
00;35;44;23 - 00;36;06;22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I would say my my call up is, it's simple is you prioritize your time with God, and you, you get a conviction in your heart for the man that you want to be. The husband you want to be, the father you want to be. And then you start identifying those areas of your life that that are struggles that maybe you've kept silent, you've kept hidden, and start realize that these things are actually going to be hindrances.
00;36;06;22 - 00;36;27;24
Speaker 2
They're going to notice them. So my call up is to get a conviction in your heart for the man that you want to be and what you want to leave behind, and that you actively start being vulnerable and transparent, that with some people around you, some men that you trust. Yeah. And you, you grow daily. And I think that when we show our kids that, that we can see that with, with our family and the legacy that we leave behind, that they're also going to grow and always be striving to get better.
00;36;27;27 - 00;36;43;24
Speaker 1
Super powerful. Well, I think we gave you guys a lot of gain today, a lot of content, three different books. And so man, guys, let's keep growing together. Thanks so much, so much for joining us on the man of Faith podcast. We'll see you next time, Sam. Great having you, bro.
00;36;43;25 - 00;36;44;21
Speaker 2
Thanks for having me.
00;36;44;24 - 00;36;46;12
Speaker 1
Grace and peace, y'all.