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Step into the dark side of public speaking with “The Public Speaking Horror Show,” where we expose the chilling fears and epic stage fails of speakers who’ve lived to tell the tale. Join us as we dig into their nightmares and discover the killer tips that turned their terror into triumph.
Laura Reid: [00:00:02] All right, speech slayers. Welcome to another episode of the Public Speaking Horror Show. And get ready because today's guest knows all about real life horror. But we're not talking about ghosts and ghouls. We're talking about something even scarier: cybercrime and neuro sculpting. Ouch. Today's guest is better known as the Queen of Online Safety. She is the founder and CEO of Smarter Online Safety, where she empowers everyone from CEOs to celebrities, parents to entrepreneurs on how to protect themselves in the digital age. From hackers and AI deep fakes to the latest scams, she helps people stay safe, sane and informed in an online world that's, let's face it, getting creepier by the day. But here's where things get terrifying. She wasn't always a cybersecurity expert. In fact, she was once a victim of cyber crime herself. And not just a little hack, but a life shattering attack that devastated her finances, her career, health and even marriage. That experience forced her to fight back. And now she's not just a survivor, she was named a top ten woman in cybersecurity and has dedicated herself to helping others stay protected before it's too late. So if you've ever worried about getting hacked, scammed, or even digitally impersonated, this episode is for you. Buckle up because we're diving into the real horror stories of the internet, and trust me, you'll want to hear what she has to say before you click on that next suspicious link. Let's slay the cyber monsters and learn how our brains can help us slay our nerves too on stage, there's a lot to unpack. Welcome to The Public Speaking Horror Show Jocelyn King.
Jocelyn King: [00:01:57] Oh, thank you so much, Laura. So great to be here with you and everybody. And you're not only a speech slayer, you are a podcast introduction slayer. That was amazing.
Laura Reid: [00:02:06] Oh. Thank you. Thank you so much. So we're going to get started with what I'm calling the killer 13. These are 13 rapid fire, quirky, sometimes spooky, random questions. Are you ready to play?
Jocelyn King: [00:02:23] No, of course not. But sure.
Laura Reid: [00:02:27] That's the correct answer. Sure. All right. Number one, what's scarier? A room full of zombies or a room full of hackers?
Jocelyn King: [00:02:38] Hackers.
Laura Reid: [00:02:39] Okay, I thought you'd say that one. If you could go back and tell your child self one thing, what would it be?
Jocelyn King: [00:02:48] Take a deep breath and try to have fun.
Laura Reid: [00:02:52] Oh, I love that one. Awesome. Number three. What's the worst cybersecurity mistake most people make every day?
Jocelyn King: [00:03:01] Mhm. You know, here's one that everybody forgets about. I work with people who are like oh yeah, no I don't need any cybersecurity training. I use a password manager. I've got unique passwords. I've got my devices locked up. I've got my security settings and everything. And I say, great. When was the last time you updated your router admin password? And most people think, did they ever do it or did they just plug it in and leave the 0000 password in with the admin login that I could, we could all hack into your account even though it has the secure lock. When you look at Wi-Fi, that's the fastest way in to your entire network, your entire files and all and your entire life.
Laura Reid: [00:03:47] I am already feeling my anxiety rise a bit.
Jocelyn King: [00:03:51] I hope everybody listening is going. Oh, I got it. Or they have to ask their partner or somebody, like, have we ever done that?
Laura Reid: [00:03:59] Oh my goodness. Okay. Thank you.
Jocelyn King: [00:04:02] Thank you I think. Right.
Laura Reid: [00:04:04] Okay. Number four, would you rather be invisible or be able to fly?
Jocelyn King: [00:04:11] Mhm. Invisible.
Laura Reid: [00:04:14] Mhm. Why is that.
Jocelyn King: [00:04:17] Because well and in my line of work it gives me the access to be able to be in the rooms where the things are happening. You know, I help fight, I help protect people and the way to be, you know, having the information that you need to have about your opponent is the best way you protect yourself. So I think being invisible would give me more power over being able to garner information that would help others than just being able to fly.
Laura Reid: [00:04:53] Absolutely. It'd be a pretty cool superpower for sure. All right, number five. If your brain had a firewall against stage fright, what would the password be?
Jocelyn King: [00:05:05] Well, first of all, I would not use a password. I would use a passphrase, which means that I think of, you think of a phrase from a movie. So let me just pick something random here. Let's pick when you wish upon a star. So I would use an uppercase W for my first letter, and then a small letter u for the word you, and then w for wish and u for upon. And then instead of an a, I would use an at symbol. And then instead of an S, I would use a dollar sign. So when you wish upon a star exclamation mark, exclamation mark is a passphrase. And that's what I would use.
Laura Reid: [00:05:49] Okay, we'll have to break down why that's probably better than a password later on.
Jocelyn King: [00:05:55] More for memory and because it's not easily guessed.
Laura Reid: [00:05:58] Oh, I love that.
Jocelyn King: [00:05:59] Just don't post on Facebook that your favorite song is when you wish upon a star and you're okay.
Laura Reid: [00:06:04] Okay, I'll try to remember that. All right. Number six, what's one cybersecurity myth that drives you crazy?
Jocelyn King: [00:06:13] That regular people can't protect themselves from hackers.
Laura Reid: [00:06:20] That's a good one.
Jocelyn King: [00:06:21] That. I think that's a real myth. I have, I am proof that that's not true. And I have helped thousands of people prove that it's not true.
Laura Reid: [00:06:31] Yeah. And I think, you know, really smart people can be hacked, like, you know, it just takes one, you know, random moment where you're not really thinking to click on that link.
Jocelyn King: [00:06:42] Actually, I'm going to write, I want to write an academic paper about this or something for like an HBR or something. But having been in this business for so long and knowing what I've learned, and by working with some of the best cyber security people in the world and in the industry, there is zero correlation between intelligence and even street smarts and getting hacked. Because getting hacked can happen in so many ways. And smart people may, you know, can click on things without thinking. Or more importantly, you're talking about the horror show and fear that we all have in public speaking. Well, hackers rely on fear and getting you into a fear state. And so when they get you agitated and they get you into your fight or flight limbic system brain response so that you're in, you're not thinking with your best thinking, that's when you make the mistake. So the smartest people, I've worked with, you know, billionaires and smart, you know, some of the smartest Silicon Valley engineers and super smart professors and stuff who have been hacked. They're certainly high intelligence and high street savvy, but you can easily click on something, especially when you're in a moment of fear response or being distracted. So there's zero correlation. And that's really important because most people, if they've done something they shouldn't have or clicked on something, they can compound it. And I did myself by then feeling shame over having done something that I shouldn't have done and then not getting help. And when you realize there's zero correlation between making the mistake of doing, of being manipulated by a hacker who's intentionally, maliciously trying to manipulate you, that that's nothing to be ashamed about, and it has nothing to do with whether you're smart or not.
Laura Reid: [00:08:35] I love that so much. Yeah, I beat myself up when I clicked on a UPS, it was a UPS link and I was expecting a package, you know, and I actually put in my credit card number. I mean, it was so bad and I was like, God, Laura so dumb, you know? But it was, yeah, that moment that I'm not thinking, it was around Christmas, I'm getting packages and, yeah. So. Jeez, thank you for that.
Jocelyn King: [00:08:58] So don't beat yourself up about it. There's a reason why they do it, because so many people do that, will respond that way.
Laura Reid: [00:09:04] Absolutely. All right. Number seven, what's one online scam that you're actually kind of impressed by?
Jocelyn King: [00:09:12] Gosh, I've seen so many. I'm just trying to think of one I think. I actually, the ones, so there's one where it's, you imitate a website. So for instance, a smart, you know, once you're informed about what to look at, you know, not to click on links, you'll hover over the link and look at it to make sure it's not some gobbledygook and that it's legitimate, but some more sophisticated hackers will, I'm going to use this one as an example, because I used it with a cybersecurity expert on my podcast, who gave this as an example. Instead of paypal.com slash something there instead of the last L, the PayPal being an L, it's actually an uppercase I.
Laura Reid: [00:09:58] Oh, wow.
Jocelyn King: [00:09:59] So you hover over it and you think it says PayPal and it actually says PayPa uppercase i.com. And so the way to catch that is to put it in this link that we give people where you can put everything in and it'll tell you whether it's a good and safe thing to click on or not, but to the, to your eye, even if you've trained yourself. Oh, I'm smarter than that, I'm not going to click on any link without making sure it's a good name, you can be tricked into that. And some of those things can get shut down, others can't. And a lot of sophisticated cyber criminals will go that route.
Laura Reid: [00:10:31] Wow, that's so scary. Oh my goodness. All right, number eight, a movie is being made of your life. What's it called? And who do you want to play you.
Jocelyn King: [00:10:42] Oh, I like that. Hacked and Attacked. How I survived cybercrime and took my life back.
Laura Reid: [00:10:54] Oh.
Jocelyn King: [00:10:55] And I think I would like Emily Blunt to play me.
Laura Reid: [00:10:59] Oh, yes. Good choice. That sounds like a book, too. Hacked and attacked would be.
Jocelyn King: [00:11:05] Well, I'm. I'm writing that book.
Laura Reid: [00:11:06] You're working on that, right? Okay. Stay tuned everyone. That's amazing. All right, what's something most people would be really surprised to know about you?
Jocelyn King: [00:11:17] That I grew up in Hollywood in a show business family. And by the time I was ten, I had performed on stage in front of thousands of people and been on a TV commercial. And that led me into, I had a career in my 20s. I was a musician and an all female rock band that toured all over California. And then I was a jazz singer and did festivals and jazz festivals and county, you know, state fairs and things like that with my quartet and my... Tori Amos stole away my bass player and the Grateful Dead stole away my pianists. And then I decided, and at that point, I said, okay, and I went back and got to school and got an MBA and stopped doing music on the side. But music and acting and entertainment, you know, been a big part of my life. That's why some of my clients are celebrities. And, you know, I work with CEOs and executives and investors in Silicon Valley. But I also work with, you know, Hollywood types and producers and stars and people who have Grammys and Emmys, too. So because I grew up in that world.
Laura Reid: [00:12:26] Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay, that movie of your life definitely needs to be made now. And oh, and Tori Amos, come on. Like, yeah.
Jocelyn King: [00:12:36] Jonathan Evans come back to me. He's still playing with her.
Laura Reid: [00:12:39] Oh my gosh. All right. That's so cool. If you were a vehicle, what would, what make and model would you be?
Jocelyn King: [00:12:50] Well, given my age, I'm going to be an all classic with all original parts.
Laura Reid: [00:12:54] I love it.
Jocelyn King: [00:12:55] How about a bathtub Porsche? Because I'm a little curvy. So there you go. Oh, classic.
Laura Reid: [00:13:00] I love that.
Jocelyn King: [00:13:00] Classic 60s bathtub Porsche. All original parts. There you go.
Laura Reid: [00:13:05] Very cool. Very cool.
Jocelyn King: [00:13:07] And great condition.
Laura Reid: [00:13:10] Fantastic. Restored.
Jocelyn King: [00:13:12] There you go. Exactly.
Laura Reid: [00:13:14] All right. Number 11. What technology that we have now, do you wish existed when you were a teenager?
Jocelyn King: [00:13:23] Mhm. Google search and YouTube because I was, you know, I look at my nieces and nephews and all, you know, and just how I'm using everything today. I mean, you know, when some of us were growing up, you wanted to learn something? You had to go to the library and look it up on a card and a file and then go find it. And if the book's out, you have to wait for, you have to put in a request to be notified when it comes back in. And how old is the information in that book? Because it had to be written and, you know, and gotten a book proposal approved and gotten published and stuff. So the, while we have a lot of junk to sort through because it's so easy to publish, you know, YouTube to me is my favorite search engine because I can get everything done. And I love how it replaced those horrible user manuals that help you put things together. I mean, let's face it, you know, the the how to assemble an Ikea thing, getting to watch a video of somebody putting something together is just so much faster. And this is why we have virtuoso guitar players who have just learned how to play guitar through YouTube. Whereas when I was growing up, if you didn't have a great guitar instructor near you and your parents ability to afford it and your ability to get to them, you just didn't learn guitar and now it really has made everything accessible to everybody. So you can do whatever you want and be whoever you want to be. Because of this access to information that is empowering all of us.
Laura Reid: [00:14:55] Oh man, it would have made my term paper so much easier to write.
Jocelyn King: [00:14:59] Exactly, exactly.
Laura Reid: [00:15:01] All right, number 12. Almost there. What song always gets you pumped and dancing?
Jocelyn King: [00:15:07] Oh, gosh, there's a couple of them. I love gosh, I can't look it up. Let's see, well, I have a few, but I love, I still love Happy by Pharrell Williams. And frankly, the reason I say that is I have a little playlist. So before I go on stage, I listen to happy, upbeat stuff, and I have a little playlist. I've got a few songs in there, but that's the first one because that one gets me going and it just, it gets me dancing and moving and I think really important for us when we're going to be speaking, gets my breathing going. It's the perfect beats per minute to get my breathing and my heart rate just accelerated enough that I don't look bored when I get on stage. And it also has just enough levity and relaxing lyrics to calm me down. I'm a certified neuro sculptor. I know a thing or two about how our brains work, and no matter what mood I'm in, it decreases my fight or flight and helps get me in the best energized state to talk to people and help them.
Laura Reid: [00:16:12] That's such a good tip. You know, get yourself, you know, little playlist, right, to get right before you're doing something scary or going on stage and speaking. I think that's so good because it does, it changes your state no matter where you're starting from, right? It's going to boost you up and get you excited. So I'm in kind of a Chappell Roan phase right now, but I love Happy too.
Jocelyn King: [00:16:34] And think of Michael Phelps at the Olympics, he always had his earbuds in and was listening to his playlist and, you know, 16 gold medals later or whatever it was in that particular Olympics. I think it says that it helped because that was how he prepared so he could be ready and warmed up and stay loose. And that's what we all need to do as speakers.
Laura Reid: [00:16:52] Yeah, I love it. All right. Number 13, if you could steal the identity of someone else to be them just for a day, anyone in history or current that's living, who would it be?
Jocelyn King: [00:17:06] Wow. That, there's. Wow. That's a tough question. To steal their identity, to understand them or to...?
Laura Reid: [00:17:19] Well, just to be them for a day. Get to be them.
Jocelyn King: [00:17:21] For a day.
Laura Reid: [00:17:22] Yeah.
Jocelyn King: [00:17:25] Mm. In the past, I would have said Madeleine Albright, because when she was secretary of state, I loved that she was a foreign national who had such powers of good and influence and was such a great negotiator. And she's somebody who learned how to handle any situation. And she had these different techniques when she was negotiating peace talks. She would listen to everybody before she spoke and then come in with a solution where everybody got something so she could broker a peace deal. But when she represented the United States at the United Nations, she had to speak first because the US goes first and she was able to switch gears and wear whatever uniform was appropriate for the job and always got the job done. So I think that to be her and experience that flexibility with switching gears from going to I speak, I speak first to I lead, I listen, I... Powerful speaker and an incredibly powerful listener, and I would love to experience that for a day.
Laura Reid: [00:18:30] That is such a cool choice because you, yeah you'd learn so much by being that other person. You know, what's like their mindset for going through all that? Well, you did an amazing job. Congratulations, Jocelyn, for surviving the killer 13. I know that's not easy. You handled it like a pro. So now it's time for a little deeper dive and getting to the meat of some of this horror that you've experienced, but also a bit of your backstory, what you know, in your words, what really led you to be passionate about what you do. So can you share with us your story?
Jocelyn King: [00:19:07] Well, I was an unwilling participant in learning cyber security but I did love tech. I will say that. So after the, while I was doing the performing and stuff, I was still a working mom. And then part of it I was a working single mom. So I was working in, you know, in marketing, and I liked working for technology companies. And my goal was to get to Silicon Valley, which I eventually did, and I was ultimately at a company that was getting acquired by Intel. And while I'm there, I'm getting to work with the CEO of Intel. And, you know, we're on a first name basis, and I'm writing a keynote for him, speaking of speaking opportunities, and coaching him on what he needs to say to our customer base, because I was the head of marketing for the company that was getting acquired. And in the midst of all this, I realized that I'm getting targeted by cyber criminals. And it wasn't, it had nothing to do with being part of Intel. It was actually for other, other reasons. But I was targeted, and they were able to hack through my husband's phone and impersonate being him so that they could open our, get into our network, and get our identities, get all of our financial information, get all of our passwords and everything.
Jocelyn King: [00:20:25] So they didn't even have to hack my network because my network was highly protected and I had new passwords and have done everything correctly, but they were able to impersonate a member with access and then get access to everything, including like opening the deadbolts of our house in my office at midnight one night and waking up and going, you know, seeing just my morning alert as I'm drinking coffee. Why? What? What do you mean? Opened the the office, the deadbolts in the middle of the night and disarmed our security system, which would send the police or something if somebody broke in and I was like, how did that happen? So I'm calling the security company to try and figure out what's going on. And they're saying, well, somebody must have been sleepwalking or something. They're putting it all back on me. And I'm saying, well, no. And fortunately I had my wits about me. And I said, but, but we have a hallway monitor, if anybody had left the bedrooms, that would have been detected. And that wasn't so, they couldn't explain it. And they're saying, and they're basically saying, well, it just shows that it's your, you know, this person, this person's phone unlocked them. And so it's kind of that thing where they're pointing it, you have to you have to go to the phone.
Jocelyn King: [00:21:31] So then I'm talking to, you know, the carrier and I'm talking to Apple and I'm talking to everybody and everybody's saying, you know, pointing me to the other, the other systems. So I finally get to like the fourth tier of Apple support. And they really did come through. I spent four hours on the phone and I got into their inner sanctum of support, and then they were able to realize that the phone had been completely taken over through malware, through an app that my husband had downloaded and were able to get in and had just been sitting in stealth mode. And what had happened is we were actually under a long term attack. A lot of people think cyber, when they think of cybersecurity and cyber crime, they think of, okay, somebody's got your credit card information or logged into your bank account and is trying to drain it, or they're doing a, you know, fake check scam or something. And all that happens, but there's also something that is more prevalent than anybody knows, which is these long haul things where they're coming in and invading a person the same way they do a company for ransomware, which is they're there for months and they're getting complete control so that they can then act and strike when they planned to.
Jocelyn King: [00:22:45] We knew that things were bizarre because things were, people were starting to show up at places we were going that we were in a dispute with, we were having our tires slashed. And it's like, how did they even know we were here? These kinds of things were happening, and we're filing police reports and stuff. But there's no smoking gun. These people were good. They didn't slash our tires where there were any security cameras on a parking lot, for example, or something was blocked by a big truck or a tree. So they knew what they were doing. And a lot of this was to intimidate us and scare us. And we but we knew that they knew where we were going. So we started getting, you know, very, first of all, cagey and trying to, you know, like, I wouldn't get off at the exit I was actually getting off at. I would get off past the exit or before and take a back road and drive. And it was like a TV show where you're making sure nobody's following you. So I started living my life that way. Here I am, you know, kind of a senior person in marketing at Intel and I, and I didn't reach out to folks at Intel who might have been able to help me because I'm coming through an acquisition and they're still deciding who they're going to keep and let go.
Jocelyn King: [00:23:58] And I don't want to be a problem child. So I'm just acting like everything's fine. But I'm totally distracted and we're seeing things happen. We had people get through our system, and we knew that our house had been broken into because we found some cables to a couple of our security cameras cut in the back of the garage. And we're like, so how did they get past the security cameras to get in to cut the security, other security cameras, all these things are happening, and every time we're calling law enforcement, we're always one step behind. And I'm talking to even the FBI, only to find out that I'm one of almost a million cases that was filed, that's filed every year. And so you're really unless you're a threat to national security or there's some big bank fraud going on or you've got millions of dollars at risk, you really aren't even going to get a call back because our law enforcement are fantastic and our first responders are great, but they are so overwhelmed that they really, they can't help you. So the second worst thing about having this happening is then reaching out thinking, well, I'm going to get help.
Jocelyn King: [00:25:02] And then realizing the cavalry is not coming, you got to figure this out for yourself. So ultimately, we had had a leak in our roof. We had some attic insulation replaced. And in the process of doing that, as they're working with the insulation, this microphone that had been in our bedroom ceiling came down out of the wall. I had paid thousands of dollars to have our cars and homes swept, and they had swept the walls to see if there was any surveillance, but they hadn't swept the ceiling and it would have looked like a little dot. So we didn't see it. But imagine finding out that you've had a microphone in your bedroom, that people that you don't want to know anything about you have been listening to for over a year. So that is so invasive and devastating. And so the emotional roller coaster, you know, the actual what's happening with your finances and your physical devices is one thing, but the emotional and mental strain that all of this takes, and I've met so many people who've been through worse than me that this is something that people need to be aware of because it's very, people who want to get at you, can get at you, and you need to take steps to protect yourself.
Laura Reid: [00:26:12] Wow.
Jocelyn King: [00:26:13] So I yeah, that's where I was.
Laura Reid: [00:26:14] So scary. You know, and one of the scariest things is that there isn't really anyone to help. I mean, that's why we need you, right? You needed you back then. And you know that you can feel so isolated and alone in it. What are some of your biggest tips to protect yourself? For those listening out there?
Jocelyn King: [00:26:35] Well, first of all, so it's interesting what you said because that's what I was, I was looking, first of all, I know they've gotten into the phones, so I'm like, can I even search if I'm searching, do they know what I'm searching for on my phone and my Mac? At this point, I have no idea what they have access to and what they don't, but I know they have access to far more than they should. So I'm even afraid to do, you know, searches on my phone for people to help and stuff. So, and then you start getting paranoid, you know, and then you see threats where there are threats, but you also see threats where there aren't threats. And so you start getting into a mindset. I was basically on a 24 hour adrenaline and cortisol drip for about two and a half years. And your brain, you know, you can't live that way. I couldn't sleep, I mean, I ended up being on Ambien and antidepressants and everything, and what I was looking for, Laura, was I said, I kept looking online, where's the checklist for how to get out of it, and where's the checklist for how to prevent it? And it didn't exist. And on my darkest morning, when I woke up and had realized we had been surveilled and we were, you know, I lost, we lost a lot of money, and we were spending a lot of money on defensive measures that weren't catching anything. And I'm distracted from work. So here I should be at the peak of my career and I missed a promotion opportunity. I feel I have to be in two places at one time and I can't. And I just woke up one morning and I thought, it's every day it's getting worse, not better, no matter how hard I try.
Jocelyn King: [00:28:02] And I just thought, you know, I just saw that I had no future. And it was the darkest I've ever felt in my life. But at that moment, I thought, there isn't, I can't find this checklist, but I'm going to, I can make it for my daughter's sake and my niece's sake and everybody I care about, because the part of me that stood up against a bully who was bullying a little kid when I was, when I was a kid, came out and I was like, I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to find people who can help me. Even though I keep getting no help, I'm going to just keep going until I find help. And then I'm going to create that checklist, and I'm going to share it. And that purpose helped me rally and gave me the drive I needed to protect myself and ended up leading to what I'm doing today. And that's why I went from being a depressed Ambien and antidepressant taking cyber crime victim who was afraid her life was over, to getting named a top ten woman in cybersecurity. It was just through that I'm going to rally and figure this out and then help as many people as I can. And that's what I'm doing now. And I've never had more, as horrible as all that was, it's ironic, the gift that life has given me by helping me be able, I've been able to help thousands of people. And I'm looking forward to helping thousands more and that I have more purpose and a drive to get up in the morning than I've ever had in my entire life.
Laura Reid: [00:29:37] Man, you're such a rock star. I mean, I think most people would have just wanted to move to Mongolia or something and just, you know, give up, you know? But instead you fought back and you rose up, right? And, you know, from that darkest, darkest day and experiencing that, I mean, for anyone listening out there who is having a bad day or feels a little overwhelmed or stressed like, imagine, imagine like things could be so much worse. And that's why it's so important to protect yourself, you know, because you just don't, you know, just from downloading an app, right, clicking on a link, your whole life can just be invaded in such a such a horrible way, I can't imagine. I know you touched on a little bit about how you rose up, how you fought back. But part of that, it seems like, was an internal battle, too, for yourself to take back your own sanity. So tell us a little bit about what you learned about neural sculpting and how you became an expert in that, and how that might be able to actually help too, some of our listeners who fight that same kind of fear, whether it's with public speaking or anything else in their lives where they need to rise up and be brave. Thank you.
Jocelyn King: [00:30:44] Well, it was kind of one of those universe coincidences and a gift, you know, in that I thought, I just have to go get away from my house and get away from all of this. And it was actually my birthday weekend. This is about, I don't know, eight, nine years ago. I went, I saw a retreat place that was near me and I thought, I can go there, I just have to get away from here where I feel I'm under attack all the time or, and don't feel safe. I don't feel safe in my own home. And so I went to this retreat center for my birthday weekend and they had four options. And one of them was the woman who was the founder of the Neural Sculpting Institute, which is based in Denver. And she has, she had several books out, and it's really about how you can rewire your brain. And she has a personal story of how she almost died and flatlined in front of her child because she had such fear and anxiety that her body response was actually making her heart stop. And she had to save her own life. And she did it. And there wasn't, she wasn't having, you know, epileptic seizures or something. They were telling her, this is this is something in her neural plasticity that, and she just started researching everything she could and realizing how she could rewire her brain to overcome the fear and lessen her fear response.
Jocelyn King: [00:32:08] And I said, oh, that is for me. So I went and I got to have it. And basically it's a five step process that helps you calm your limbic system and get out of fight or flight and bring your prefrontal cortex, our, you know, our big, calm, big picture thinking best self thinking back online and then visualize, and then through toggling your left and right brain hemispheres through the guidance of words being used in the meditation or a visualization, you literally are rewiring your brain every time you hear it, but she also gives you a somatic clue, a tapping cue that you can use. So like think of like tapping your chest or tapping your fingers together. So when you attach that with this visualization of yourself being calm before you go on stage and breathing and having a power word like, you know, energized, let's say, by doing that, after having done this meditation where you're starting to rewire your brain, you can take yourself into that state. You also use your non-dominant hand. That's how you help rewire it. And by doing things as simple as brushing your teeth with your non-dominant hand, stirring your coffee with your non-dominant hand, scrambling eggs with your non-dominant hand. Every time you do that, you're rewiring your brain. And the me that you see calm here is not only because I learned how to protect myself, but I like to say first I had to get sane, and then I had to get safe.
Jocelyn King: [00:33:37] And getting from that fear, fight or fear response to getting into a sane, calm, relaxed state I use these neural sculpting practices for. And I do have a neural sculpting meditation and a little talk about it that I can give you a link to, that you can share with your listeners. And, you know, just, I just want to share it as a, you know, it's my gift to helping people who are feeling that. But you literally can rewire your brain. And it is a powerful tool to help overcome fears like fear of public speaking or, you know, or if you feel any kind of imposter syndrome or fear of anything, and you don't even have to use it for fear. You can also use it for envisioning yourself being a, you know, a top keynote speaker or winning, you know, one of the speaking club awards. By visualizing all that and wiring your brain to accept that you're actually helping yourself prepare to make that happen. So it's a very powerful tool. And I'm forever grateful to Lisa Weinberger and the Neural Sculpting Institute in the process of taking the classes, because they were so helpful to me, I became a certified neuro sculptor, and that's why I now offer it as a tool to help people.
Laura Reid: [00:34:49] That is so powerful. I love that power word, having that. And I love the link between simply brushing your teeth with your, you know, non-dominant hand and how that can link to helping you overcome some nerves like I never would have made that connection. Is neural neural sculpting the same or different than neural neuro-linguistic programing?
Jocelyn King: [00:35:11] It's its own flavor of neuro rewiring. And what's nice about it is it's something that anybody can do themselves and you can have control. You can, you know, reinforce and rewire your own brain, you know, several times a day with these little hacks, you know, thinking that power word while you're using your non-dominant hand, thinking energize, you're literally creating new neural pathways. And so it's more, it's a very good self-empowered self-help version of how to do it. That's kind of it takes the, all the science from neuroplasticity and what they're learning, you know, and what's, you know, latest and greatest in neuroplasticity as a science, but combining it with ancient meditation visualization techniques. So it's also very calming.
Laura Reid: [00:35:59] Wow. Well, we're definitely going to be sharing that link with all our listeners because I think this will be so beneficial to, you know, to everyone. You know, whether you're just, you want to speak up at a town hall or you want to give that Ted talk, or you just want to be a more confident person through your life, it sounds like it can be a huge tool to to do that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, you said you grew up in Hollywood. You were in front of thousands of people on stage since you were little, you know, met celebrities all you know, and I know you've given keynotes. Was there ever a time where something just went sideways? It just went wrong before you learned all these great tools?
Jocelyn King: [00:36:42] Oh, yes.
Laura Reid: [00:36:43] And and how did you recover from that or what did you learn from it that you can share?
Jocelyn King: [00:36:47] Oh, well, here's one time. I, there was a big concert for a composer and he had this wonderful band he had assembled, and I was the singer because he had written words to some of the songs, and he had a couple different singers on, but I was kind of like the headliner, and I'm there and I come up and I'm starting to sing and the microphone's not on. And I can't really tell because when you're on stage with a microphone, you're not hearing what the audience is hearing. You've got your own monitor. And so I couldn't really hear my monitor, but because I, there had been three people on before me, I didn't know what my monitor was supposed to sound like. I've been on stage before where sound is fine, I can't hear, and then you're signaling the, you know, you're giving these little signals, tapping your ear to the sound man, you know, to turn your monitor up. But then the audience is putting their hand, cupping their hand behind their ears, and I know they can't see me. And then I went, and then I just panicked and my heart sank because I'm like, oh, no. And I'm in this big hall that's full of people. And I was so in my zone.
Jocelyn King: [00:37:51] But this technical thing threw me off. So we're trying to fix it. And then I did it, but then I didn't restart because I was so thrown off and I was in such a reactive mode, so half the song was missed, including these wonderful lyrics that he had written. And so, you know, and I hadn't had anything like that happen before, so I didn't know, okay, I should stop and then make a joke about it and then start again. I was so, I think I was so caught up in what I thought was personal humiliation or a personal failure. And when you go down that route with feeling emotionally bad or like you've done something wrong or shame, you don't feel like stopping and making a funny joke and say, you know, don't you just hate these things or just anything? And so, you know, but that was my learning ground, unfortunately, in front of all those people. And it went well. And it was, you know, and it's funny, it's on public access television and things like that. And I see it. And that one they don't, that one song they don't put in and I'm thinking, darn it, if I had started over, they'd be playing that one song. So I learned that.
Laura Reid: [00:38:59] Such a good lesson.
Jocelyn King: [00:39:00] And then another time is I got really good at speaking on large stages, but I would absolutely freeze up presenting in a small room. When I'm suddenly presenting to the leadership team, like being in a room on PowerPoint with ten people, executive or not even peers, was suddenly terrifying. It was like I was starting over. It was like I had never had any training for how to speak. They're totally different things. So also getting great at doing presentations in a room is not the same as getting on a stage for a big keynote, but I didn't know it went the other way. And it does. And I think it's because sometimes when you're on a big stage in a keynote, you know, you know there's thousands of people out there, but you can't see them all. When you're in a small room and everybody's looking at you, it's kind of overwhelming that you're trying to read their faces. Are they engaged with what you're saying? And for people who are introverts and listening, you can't really read them. So paying too much attention to them can throw you off. So I found after my upbringing, it was much more difficult to give a presentation in a small room than a large one.
Laura Reid: [00:40:06] I totally get that. I hadn't really given it a lot of thought, but you're so right. Like when you're on a bigger stage, you've got the spotlight on you. Yeah, you're not really seeing the faces. And for me, I feel so in control of the narrative and control of everything. But you're right in when I've given smaller workshops, I think last time I did that, I was a little bit more nervous. And there is something about that. There's just, all the eyes are right on you. I felt more, I felt more like in the spotlight, but in a weird way. I know, so what do you have any tips for that, or can neural sculpting help with that? Or what did you learn that worked for you?
Jocelyn King: [00:40:43] Well, what really helps me and the thing about neural sculpting is how to get into your prefrontal cortex. First of all, quick tip. This is really great. Only your prefrontal cortex or your limbic system can be online at one time because they both need to be fed by your brain. They both are taking the same oxygen and sugar, so calming down your limbic system automatically puts you more back in your prefrontal cortex, and bringing your prefrontal cortex online automatically dials down your limbic system. That's one of the things I learned from the neural sculpting. So the fastest way to get in your prefrontal cortex is to, you know, is to be calm. And so sometimes if you can have, like, that's why listening to a song like Happy before you go on helps get you in that state. This is why, you know, back in the day, they used to say, oh, picture everybody in their underwear and stuff like, that never actually worked for me. But the idea of that is that it's kind of, it's funny and it would make you smile. And if you can make yourself smile, you're going to, we don't, our brain knows that we don't smile when we're being attacked by a grizzly bear. So if you're smiling or laughing, then you're safe. And if you're safe, your limbic system calms down. So just by recognizing that you're safe, and here's the other thing: taking breaths. The number one thing from neural sculpting that I learned, when we're nervous, we're thinking about the future. You're thinking, oh, what if I blow this? You're already thinking that something bad could happen. And I'm having this, you know, horror fantasy. Or if I'm thinking I didn't prepare enough and I'm living in regret because of what I didn't do yesterday.
Jocelyn King: [00:42:20] So just taking some deep breaths and feeling your feet on the floor or your legs in the chair brings you back into the present moment. So the more you are in the present, the more naturally calm you are, unless there actually is a grizzly bear in front of you, but an audience in front of you is not the same. And then you, and then the number one thing I would do, because I think most of it comes up from thinking, am I going to be good enough? Did I prepare enough? What if I do this and you hear all those eyes? And instead, if I think, what do I really want everybody listening to me to get out of this? What's the gift that I want to give them? What's the experience I want them to have? What's the knowledge I want them to have? Like now when I'm talking and helping people realize that they can, they have agency over protecting themselves online, and you don't have to become a cyber security grade hacker to do that. So empowering people to understand that they can take control of their lives and there's just a few steps that if they do them, they're going to be ten times safer than they are right now. That's, when I focus on that and on them and what I want them to feel or experience, it immediately calms me down and gets, and I'm no longer thinking about, what if I do this? What if I do that? And I think we get in our own way when we're overly thinking. It's a weird way of being self-centered by being self-focused. So focusing on the audience and what you're there in service to them for will immediately help you.
Laura Reid: [00:43:45] Those are amazing tips. Oh my gosh. So smile. You know, unless that grizzly bear is actually coming at you, you know, then it's not going to matter either way.
Jocelyn King: [00:43:56] Then you yell, then you yell.
Laura Reid: [00:43:58] Smile. Breathe. Remember that it's really not about you. It's about, yeah, that great gift and message that you're giving the audience. And I love what you shared, too, like when the, you know, the tech fail with your microphone with singing. It's like you took it personally. And I think remembering like it's never, like tech is never personal. But when that does happen, because it's going to happen, it's out of our control. You said you're just very reactive and panicked, but I think instead, you know, always just slowing down, knowing that there's time to make a joke. You can be, you know, just respond in your own time, right? That we don't really need to react. And that's definitely very fear-based. I would think too. Yeah. That reaction.
Jocelyn King: [00:44:40] You know, I heard somebody on stage, I went out to hear a concert and I saw that fear-based response in the performer who's a Grammy-winning person. And when they had a problem with their camera, their mic, or they had a problem, they got on, they said, I can't believe I have such that these sound people don't know what the hell they're doing.
Laura Reid: [00:45:01] Oh, no.
Jocelyn King: [00:45:02] And she criticized them. And so she took her own fear of looking inadequate and deflected it on to them. And the difference between that or stopping and when they get it fixed, say, well, thank you, everybody, let's give a hand to this incredible, you know, audio-visual team for making all this happen and for saving the day, making them heroes instead of villains.
Laura Reid: [00:45:22] Mhm.
Jocelyn King: [00:45:23] Huge difference. Huge difference. And making somebody wrong does not make you that, nobody was loving this Grammy winner after they were dissing the people who are working so hard to help her look good. So there's a lesson in there as well.
Laura Reid: [00:45:38] Absolutely. I mean, it's never anyone's fault or no one to blame. I learned this with stand up comedy, too, that if the audience isn't laughing, it's not their fault. It's my fault, you know? So, yeah, you always love your audience no matter what. And our approach it all with gratitude.
Jocelyn King: [00:45:54] Love you crew and thank your crew.
Laura Reid: [00:45:56] All the behind the scenes people. Not everyone's in the spotlight, right? But there's so many people helping from behind the scenes. We've learned so much from you. Thank you so much for being here. And can you, the just went by so fast, but can you share with us, like where we can find you, how we can follow you, what you have coming up that we can get excited about. And then also just a last message that you would really love to leave everyone with.
Jocelyn King: [00:46:24] Sure, I'd be happy to. Well, first of all, I invite everybody to come to SmarterOnlineSafety.Com and sign up. I've got free resources on there and as I release them and every week I have a newsletter with a couple of tips in there to help you stay safer in a couple of minutes. And then if you want to listen to my podcast, I bring on cybersecurity experts and we put it down in plain English of, you know, what's going on out there and what can you do to protect yourself? I also have people come on who have been victims who talk about what happened and what they learned from it. So very human stories. I'd love to have you listen to that as well. And I think one final thing is, I'm going to, I'm going to take it to cyber security. Because I think it's so important if you're trying to build your career as a speaker or let's say you're doing speaking and you've got a regular job and stuff, the last thing you need is to have a problem with a hacker. And we've all had that, if anybody listening to you has not gotten a suspicious email or a suspicious text or a suspicious phone call, please contact me because either you completely don't know or you're completely living in a bunker.
Jocelyn King: [00:47:43] And either way, I'd like to talk to you. But everybody has. And that could really throw you off as somebody who had my career trajectory and knew what I wanted to do, I'm glad that I got thrown off course so I could be doing what I'm doing today, but I don't wish it on anyone. And so I would just say, just, you know, I have the ten tips that everybody can do to be safer now. And I just encourage you to do that. It really, you know, everybody will tell you, you know, have unique passwords and everything. But most people say, great, but I don't know how to do that. And I end up resetting my passwords all the time. So I'm just going to show you how to keep them safely, generate them safely so that you can get them, hackers can't get them, and you can protect yourself and not have problems anymore. Freeze your credit so that you can't have people taking out loans on your behalf. And it's very simple to unfreeze it if you're getting a loan yourself. And then take a look at that router. Your router and Wi-Fi are your, I liken it to it's like locking all your doors and windows when you go on vacation, but leaving your garage door wide open with a sign that says gone.
Laura Reid: [00:48:54] Wow.
Jocelyn King: [00:48:55] So don't do that.
Laura Reid: [00:48:56] So much to learn from you. Thank you so much. There's so much to worry about. But in a way, it's like it's good to draw attention to it because I'd rather prevent these things from happening than to be attacked and then, you know, be reacting to it and just, you know, living in all that fear and stress. But that said, thank God there are superheroes like you out there rising up against all the bullies. So thank you so much, all the listeners. That wraps up another episode of The Public Speaking Horror Show. Be sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss any of these juicy horror stories and how to keep slaying no matter what. Thank you for being here. Aloha.