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Mental Selling: The Sales Performance Podcast is a show for motivated problem solvers in sales, leadership and customer service. Each episode features a conversation with sales leaders and industry experts who understand the importance of the mindset and skill set needed to be exceptional at building trusted customer relationships. In this podcast, we get below the surface, tapping into the emotional and psychological drivers of lasting sales and service success. You’ll hear stories and insights about overcoming the self-limiting beliefs that hold salespeople back, how to unlock the full potential in every salesperson, the complexities of today’s B2B buying cycles, and the rise of today’s virtual selling environment. We help you understand the mental and emotional aspects of sales performance that will empower you to deliver amazing customer experiences and get the results you want.
Welcome to Mental Selling!
[00:00:02] Hayley Parr: This is Mental Selling the Sales podcast for people who are dedicated to making a difference in customers' lives. We are here to help you unlock sales talent, win more relationships, and transform your business with integrity. I'm your host, Haley Parr. Let's get right into it.
[00:00:23] Hayley Parr: Hello everyone and welcome back.
[00:00:26] Hayley Parr: This episode is going to be a little different from what you're used to hearing, but don't worry, I promise you'll still get great insights about how to get better at sales. We recently did a webinar just this past summer about how future proofing your sales organization works, and I just had to pull out some of my.
[00:00:46] Hayley Parr: Favorite parts of the discussion and share them with the Mental Selling audience. These excerpts all have one key theme in common. What it really takes to lead and sell in a world that never slows down. We've all felt it. The constant motion, the noise, the shifting targets, it's what we like to call the whirlwind.
[00:01:11] Hayley Parr: And while we can't control the chaos. We can control how we respond to it. Here's David Hammond, an experienced sales executive who spent more than two decades transforming go to market teams explaining the whirlwind reality of today's market.
[00:01:31] Hayley Parr: the whirlwind reality that is today's market.
[00:01:34] David Hammond: Yeah. It has been a bit of a whirlwind, right? And. I'll tell you, I don't know. When you talk about today's market, I go back, just look at the last five years, right? What are we, 2025. and here we go. 2020 we're, COVID spinning up. that changed a lot of the reality, the operating day-to-day reality for many of us.
[00:01:53] David Hammond: well, not for many, for all of us, but for those of us who were in frontline, Revenue growth, responsibility roles. it changed everything. personally, I was, had been on about 120 flight segments a year for about seven years straight before COVID. and it just. Immediately changed how we connected, with our prospects and our clients and our partners in the market.
[00:02:18] David Hammond: and that was a tough adjustment for many. And then, you know, COVID, we emerged from that. I think we all tried to put that in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. We started reengaging. You could see the appetite for connection was, spinning back up. And, and now we have this new wave of.
[00:02:33] David Hammond: Of ai, artificial intelligence and, tools that are at our disposal. Talked to, Haley mentioned we're gonna talk a little bit about doing more with less, but a great opportunity, but at the same time, a great challenge because there's so much capability, it's so hard to learn it all. Right? And so I look in the mirror.
[00:02:52] David Hammond: I also look at teams I've been a part of and had the chance to lead. And yeah, ambiguity and pressure are, are two of the things that are. I don't know about you, Haley. They feel like they're almost omnipresent, unfortunately, especially in go-to market roles. So the pressures a given. It's always been there, right?
[00:03:08] David Hammond: If you've had a tough quarter, you probably know you're, you're on the clock to turn it around. If you've had a great quarter, congratulations. Expectations just went up. And, uh, you know, quotas may have risen too. So the pressure's always going to be there. I think the, the opportunity we have to particularly impact our teams.
[00:03:26] David Hammond: And our cultures is, reducing that, that ambiguity, right? Getting clear around the why and the what we're, we're trying to do. some broader market instability, right? take your news outlet of choosing and, um, fluidity seems to be the norm, whether it's geopolitically or economically, or,
[00:03:44] David Hammond: Take a pick. The reality about of all of this, at least in my humble opinion, is that, this has been less about a productivity equation and much more around a void, around a purpose and clarity. I hate to sound altruistic, but Haley mentioned, we've got some lived experience in the world of work, and after about 25 years of seeing some things, the best teams, the best cultures, the most solid execution, the folks who gave 110% probably felt like they had more to still give, those were not environments where, Productivity was the issue. We had clarity and we had alignment of purpose. And with that at the foundation, that's how you start to get through some of these whirlwind realities, right? You know, the ones we can control and the ones we can't.
[00:04:32] Hayley Parr: So much of what David shares comes back to clarity. The best teams don't just work harder. They work with a clear sense of why in a world that's fast, unpredictable, and pressure filled. Clarity becomes an anchor, and that's where purpose comes in. So next, let's hear how David connects. Purpose to performance and why he believes it's not just a nice to have, but a non-negotiable for modern sales teams.
[00:05:05] Hayley Parr: let's transition over to our next topic. Embedding purpose in performance.
[00:05:10] David Hammond: When you're having tough conversations. Right. And just to reference wonder, like one of the things we did too is we got less involved in rewarding tenure in the organization and we started to introduce more performance based measures and the way we rewarded contribution, right?
[00:05:26] David Hammond: You only can do that when you get really clear around your purpose. and our purpose was to help folks in, in the world work, make better decisions about who they hire and how they onboard and train those folks. When you get clear around that and that becomes the bedrock for everything that you do from an activity perspective, from a messaging perspective, folks can attach to that in really amazing ways that you can't predict.
[00:05:49] David Hammond: 'cause what they're gonna do, hopefully, is if you've given them enough humanity and your positioning, they're gonna reach into their own and connect that in really fantastic ways, and so when we talk about finding purpose and performance, again, that pressure's always gonna be there. But boy, I feel a lot better, able to respond to that pressure when I can wake up and know that hey, pressure's a privilege and I'm privileged to be able to go to market because this is what we are solving for.
[00:06:15] David Hammond: And folks that talk to us and folks that get to know us are gonna learn some things. They're gonna help their existence and help them experience success they may not have felt before. So. Helping people find that worth and possibility. I think you kicked off the call Haley, saying that this isn't a nice to have.
[00:06:30] David Hammond: It's a non-negotiable and it truly is. And what do we all kind of know firsthand if we're in a work environment or any environment where purpose is lacking? What tends to happen, folks vote with their feet. and that's a toughie for so many reasons that we're all painfully aware. So the more we can align.
[00:06:48] David Hammond: Clarity in our purpose to how we go to market and evaluate our execution that unlocks the individual's ability to connect to it, right? If we just kind of take purpose and pretend it doesn't exist and make it all about the performance, we're doing ourselves a disservice. 'cause at the core of every successful sale is some level of courageous vulnerability.
[00:07:09] David Hammond: And I don't know about you all, but I'm a whole lot less interested in sharing that courageous vulnerability when there's no purpose. Mm. as a family, we've experienced this in our little guy. We have an 8-year-old son with Down Syndrome, right. And, um, I'll tell you, his, his arc of understanding is different cognitively than, a typical kiddo, right?
[00:07:28] David Hammond: And so having. Purpose present in all things for him helps power through the tough challenges of actually learning what it is we're trying to get to learn. get a clear why, I guess is what we're trying to say, right? Haley? because when you do that, that purpose driven performance, that's what helps keep people centered and thriving.
[00:07:48] David Hammond: But it doesn't happen by accident. It's work and it takes constant reinforcement.
[00:07:52] Hayley Parr: Purpose doesn't remove the pressure. It reframes it. When salespeople understand why they're doing what they do, that pressure starts to feel like privilege. But without that clarity of purpose, teams can easily fall into indecision, disengagement, and fear. Next, David shares why indecision carries such a heavy cost and how courageous vulnerability becomes the antidote.
[00:08:23] David Hammond: I guess they're becoming less hidden, which is great, right? 'cause the more transparent we can be around the true cost of this kind of stuff, the more apt we are to take action, to change it meaningfully.
[00:08:33] David Hammond: yeah, I couldn't agree more with a bunch of the bullets on this slide. I do think that fundamentally friction comes when folks. Have ambiguity or they're uncertain or they don't have a high level of psychological safety around the culture or their role in the team. what the team's trying to do. those are real costs, right?
[00:08:52] David Hammond: and even if just turnover alone was the only KPI, we kept on the cost of that indecision, that would be enough to get our attention. But there's more to it. Not knowing where you fit. I mean, boy, I hate to strike up the world's smallest violin, but aside from being a really bad business strategy that leads the worst business outcomes, it's kind of a human just miss a human tragedy when folks don't know where they fit.
[00:09:20] David Hammond: that stinks. Again, I'll reference my son. Right. he's got a unique set of skills and abilities and it takes a lot of work for all of us, but including him to really find those areas where the fit is real and right and sustainable. we know, at least I do, when I've made decisions that were transactional that.
[00:09:42] David Hammond: And they didn't stick. and so I think we absolutely, with clarity have the opportunity to help folks make better decisions. And sometimes that means self-selecting out of the organization into a place that is a better fit. If we're not transparent and we're not. Open about what our true expectations are.
[00:10:01] David Hammond: We limit folks' ability to, to really move and flow in ways that can help us and help themselves. All of this though, masks the thing we keep hitting on, which is courageous. Vulnerability, right? Learning can be scary. Learning new skills, adapting to change can be scary things. Courage, courageous, vulnerability.
[00:10:19] David Hammond: I talk about 'em a lot. they're real. And I'll tell you what. Humbly and engaged, disengaged environments, it's usually because folks aren't bringing that courageous vulnerability to the table. And if they're not bringing it to the table, odds are it's not 'cause they're horrible human beings, but because they haven't found the right motivation or purpose or reason to bring that to bear.
[00:10:41] David Hammond: So before we make it a performance equation, we should look in the mirror as leaders of our cultures and our sales orgs and say, what are we doing to fundamentally change the culture so that folks can surface the issues and surface the disconnects that are truly driving the disconnect and the lack of performance, right?
[00:10:59] David Hammond: I talk about fear all the time. One of the lovely, um, ways fear was described for me was. False examples appearing real. And if we don't provide clarity in response to a lot of noise for our people, those false examples can appear very real. And fear then starts driving the boat rather than the business strategy and the the culture.
[00:11:22] Hayley Parr: That very idea, courageous vulnerability is one that to this day is sticking with me. When leaders create space for it, performance follows, and it's especially true for the next generation of sellers. They're entering the workforce in an era of automation, ai, and endless amounts of data. But even with all of those tools, what they want most is human connection.
[00:11:49] Hayley Parr: Here's how we framed it in our next conversation.
[00:11:52] Hayley Parr: I just wanted to hit on a couple punchlines of what that next generation of sellers, what we're hearing that they're getting. And sometimes that's not exactly aligned with what they're saying that they need. it comes down to kind of a feeling of disconnect.
[00:12:09] Hayley Parr: All the topics that we touched on today, disconnect from purpose. You know, they're entering sales with this digital native mindset. They've got access to tools that, you know, they're the most automated, most powerful tools than ever before. But there's still this disconnect. So what is that stemming from?
[00:12:24] Hayley Parr: Well, often it's, stemming from that inability to make the connections, to translate the usage of those tools to actual impact with real humans, even when they've got the data at their fingertips. In today's world of uncertainty, they're having to learn how to navigate more buyer complexity than ever before.
[00:12:43] Hayley Parr: And as we touched on earlier, if there are training programs and processes and methodologies in place, sometimes it's really generic. Sometimes it's that check the box style program, lack of alignment, doesn't really resonate with the bigger picture. So for all the things we touched on today, we're hearing that with.
[00:13:00] Hayley Parr: Especially with the next generation of sellers, those types of things aren't super effective. so what's the difference in between what they're getting and what they need? the takeaway is this, training and development programs need to focus on some of those timeless fundamentals.
[00:13:17] Hayley Parr: All of the, the hard work you mentioned on the previous slide. not to mention things like empathy, like. Active listening, how to build trust, making sure the content is modern. There's an ongoing commitment to coaching to really reinforce what's being taught, what the content is with the training on an ongoing sustainment basis.
[00:13:39] Hayley Parr: and at the end of the day, really just finding a methodology that aligns with culture, mission and purpose. With all of that comes the need for psychological safety in environments. Where culture, infrastructure, that's all in place in a way that the teams they feel safe to take risks, they feel safe to be themselves.
[00:14:02] Hayley Parr: and they feel safe to continually level up because the program was designed for them to thrive. I totally blew through that section. My apologies. David, anything you'd like to add before we move on to our doing more with less topic?
[00:14:17] David Hammond: That feedback loop you just started to hit on. I'll tell you what you know 'cause you don't sell in a vacuum. You sell, you get feedback from the market on where you're hitting home runs, where you may be lacking a little bit too if you don't have that psychological safety. folks. On the front lines are not gonna bring that feedback back to the organization.
[00:14:35] David Hammond: And missing on those actionable opportunities to deliver value can be the death kn for organizations. So it's again, getting back to what you said around nice to haves versus cultural imperatives. Yep. That's an existential threat. You know, not understanding how you fit in the market and being able to react accordingly.
[00:14:53] David Hammond: And if the front lines of the folks that are in that market aren't helping you accomplish that transparency, that's a problem.
[00:14:59] Hayley Parr: It's easy to assume that new technology is what drives sales success, but at the heart of it, the differentiator is still people. The most effective organizations today understand that culture when it's grounded in trust, purpose and alignment isn't a soft skill. It's the growth engine.
[00:15:22] Hayley Parr: culture as a growth engine. It's like we planned it
[00:15:26] David Hammond: again, we've all heard the tired silo example. thank goodness. One of the things that technology affords us is the opportunity to see the silos, find the silos, and deconstruct those silos.
[00:15:38] David Hammond: but. That's not just a tech equation. There's a cultural component. There's pride of ownership, there's a lot there. And until you have figured out those pieces and gotten clarity and buy-in from your key constituents, which are your people, whether it's sales culture, whether it's training strategy, whether all of those things are going to be at risk.
[00:16:01] David Hammond: So simple metaphors, but when you're thinking about building that. sustainable foundation for growth culture had better be a part of that bedrock. 'cause if it isn't, you'll pay that price later.
[00:16:12] Hayley Parr: As sales leaders, our greatest opportunity isn't to outwork the whirlwind. It's to bring clarity to our people. Clarity right in the middle of it all. When we do that, performance becomes sustainable and culture becomes our competitive edge.
[00:16:31] Hayley Parr: To hear more from David Hammond and to catch the full conversation, access the complete winning in the whirlwind webinar on demand@integritysolutions.com. You can find the link directly in the description of the podcast.