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The Navvai Shift – AI & Business Insights
Welcome to The Navvai Shift, the podcast where business leaders in finance share their journeys, challenges, and unfiltered thoughts on artificial intelligence. We dive deep into how AI is shaping industries, uncovering real-world insights from those driving innovation.
Subscribe for expert conversations on AI, automation, and the future of business.
Hello everyone. Today's another episode
of the Nice Shift. We have a special
guest, Joel Blake, OBBE, founder of GFA
Exchange. Pleasure to meet you, Joe.
How's everything going on your side? I'm
very well, thank you, Deari. Nice to
meet you. Nice to meet you, D. And thank
you for inviting me to be a part of your
journey.
Perfect. I'm much. So, just for our
viewers listening, can you give a bit
more insight into GFA Exchange and you
also please? Sure. Well, as you say, my
name is Joel Blake. I'm the founder and
CEO of the GFA Exchange. We're a
technology platform and consultancy
service that helps finance providers
um use AI powered insights to manage
risk. Guess what makes us different is
that that risk is really targeted at
helping them identify high growth
businesses from underserved markets. So,
we help them to expand their business
whilst helping those who need support
the most across across uh different
markets. We've been going about five
five and a half years now and I'm a solo
founder. Bootstrap the business to where
it is today.
Perfect. I much appreciate and I guess
your business is definitely doing
amazing things by being voted top 50
most innovative financial strategy
companies at the end of last year. So
congratulations for that as well. Yeah,
that was an absolute blessing and and
humbling. It just makes you makes you
realize that all the kind of stuff that
happens on behind the scenes, all the
blood, sweat, and tears that people
don't see. um you know it's it's it's
worth something and it gives you
motivation to keep pushing little things
like that but um so yeah it it was nice.
No that's amaz it's a purpose and in
terms of GFA exchange what's their role
in helping financial companies stay
competitive in the digital first world
would you say? Yeah, I mean for for me
when I started the business it was on
the back of spending about 15 years in
the financial services sector prior
first coming in as a diversity and
inclusion consultant into the space and
then moving into financing ourselves and
previous business. We funded businesses
across the UK. I think we funded about
800 companies in our time there and in
my career I've deployed about 250
million pounds worth of financing into
UK businesses. So I had a great
understanding of the industry but it was
more about how can we use technology to
really make things move faster
particularly when it comes to meeting
equitable and inclusion activity. This I
guess narrative that higher growth
businesses can't grow and scale and I
didn't think that was that was that was
correct. I felt like there was potential
in every business and technology could
show that. And so GFA was about helping
traditional organizations remain
competitive by getting into new markets,
but at the same time helping them manage
the risks of doing so. Um because often
it's a lack of information about those
newer underserved markets that help them
to um make the decisions to not go into
them. um providing a much more evidence
datadriven approach to doing that. We
felt that we can help those
organizations unlock their resources to
help those most in need whilst also
maximizing returns as an organization
and we felt that AI within technology
was a perfect component to do that.
Amazing. So, and what would you say the
biggest challenges you're seeing
financial companies face when trying to
stay competitive?
I think in this current market, you
know, which is obviously very volatile,
there's a lot of geopolitical activities
that are challenging the market. Many
organizations are still trying to bridge
the gap from what they've been used to
doing to where they now need to be. And
in bridging that gap, there are so many
new innovations, new technologies, new
disruptive ways of working that adopting
the right method for them or the right
technologies for them is often the
challenge. particularly when it comes to
seeing the impact of these things and
making sure that they can then justify
the cost and resource and invest in
these things because they've seen the
impact happen in other areas but not
necessarily have put those solutions in
place to see whether the impact will
happen for them and so there's a risk
factor in in making those those jumps
and taken those leaps. So I think that's
definitely the volatility and disruption
is one. I think the other is talent.
There's an ongoing war for talent as
they say. But I think in this day and
age the talent themselves know what they
are worth to an organization. Great
talent is at a premium. Keeping that
talent is a long-term investment and
many organizations are challenged with
finding the right types of people and
being able to keep them for the longer
terms. So I think that's the other
challenge. Disruption in the right type
of people.
Do you think it's a training aspect in
terms of when you talk about people and
having make sure high value people are
staying in within the company, do you
think it's also a training aspect in
terms of adopting new technologies as
well? It's a good question, Dari. I
think I think training is about trying
to transfer knowledge into a skill for
someone to deliver in their role. I
think there's a step before that and
that's about creating an inclusive
culture that allows that talent to feel
that they belong and feel like there's a
place for them to then want to bring in
their skill and their ability and and
then receive the support to develop and
therefore add value to the organization.
And I think that's one of the biggest
challenges again in financial services
overall. It's that feeling of being in
inclusive culture where your difference
is accepted whether it's by race or
class or or economics or whatever the
difference is, gender, whatever it may
be. It's feeling that you can bring
yourself into the organization. Then you
can then be be able to get access to the
support and skills that you need in
order to become the best that you can be
for yourself. I think that's that's
probably the biggest the biggest
challenge. I think the training is
right. Once you've done all of that, now
you want to put the right type of
support and development to the right
type of person to deliver. That's why I
think training makes a really great
difference. But I think before that,
it's make sure you got the right culture
in the first place. So Joe, how do you
reckon you bridge that gap then? You
just mentioned that you're the right
talent, but obviously some people may
feel a type of way joining the company,
maybe cultural differences or whatnot.
So how do you reckon that financial
companies can bridge that gap to
obviously make everyone feel inclusive
to get the best out of said person?
Yeah. Um, great question again, Donna. I
think I think for me in my experience,
what I've learned is that I want to know
that there's impact of delivery. So, if
I'm going to bring you into the
organization, I want to know that
there's already impact of you being able
to deliver. Sorry, evidence of your
impact to deliver in the role that
you're you're coming in to do. So, what
have you done in the past? What was the
benefit to your organization, to the
stakeholders, to those whom you've
worked with? Then it's also then going
backwards to say right I already got the
evidence of impact. What do we need to
do to support you in order to bring that
impact to us or for us or to do in the
way that we need in our environment and
in our area of influence and so that's
about then having a much more inclusive
approach to supporting that individual
person. M um I hear you that some people
may feel a way in going to an
organization where they don't feel you
know their culture will be accepted or
they don't feel their difference would
be accepted or they don't feel as an
individual person that the values don't
align with their values as an individual
but I think it's about also
understanding that a business is a
business and if you're coming into an
organization you've got to be able to
deliver in your role to help the
organization achieve it its objectives
first and foremost then it's about How
can you then what support do you need to
add value to enable that to happen? Um
and that might be controversial to some
and thinking well it's people first.
Well if it's an organization the bottom
line is what they're going to really
look at. How are they going to be able
to reduce cost make money or ideally
both? And how are you going to
contribute to that as this person coming
into the organization?
And so there has to be this balance
between the right talent and delivery
and productivity. sorry, and the ability
to do the role and deliver on the
outcomes that are needed for the
organization. And if you can prove both,
then you're going to be someone that
will get that investment regardless of
your difference.
Yeah, I definitely I definitely agree
with that. And I guess from what you put
into a person, I think it's a
transactional relationship and mutually
beneficial and they'll expect the same
thing and they'll want to help the
company more and at least you you will
be able to grow together. But I want to
kind of reverse and talk about like
client side and client expectations. You
know these technological advancements.
Client expectations are evolving
especially in this digital first world.
So companies should respond to obviously
changing client expectation with
technological advancements.
Well first and foremost the client is
always first. So arguably it's who's
who's the who's the customer here if you
get what I mean. you know, if you're if
you're truly understanding the needs of
your
client, then you should be building a
business around the needs of your
clients. And therefore, you've got to
make sure that you're constantly
engaging with the client. And so, from a
how do you develop and support the
client and how do you respond to the
world that the client's in? Well, for
me, that's
possibly easier if you make sure that
the client's needs are at the center of
everything that you do. If you're
creating solutions for a problem that's
not recognized by the client or
recognized in the way that the client
wants to be recognized, then all you got
is a very expensive hobby, particularly
as a business owner or or you're an
organization that's going to be in a
saturated market because everybody else
is delivering those solutions already
and you're trying to break in. or you're
going to be out an outsider that's not
getting in to meet the client's needs
and therefore not part of that that kind
of client's um you know on the periphery
of that client in order to see you as a
solution or service or product that they
want. putting the client's need is first
and foremost and then adapting your
business to support that need through
innovation through AI through whatever
you may want to use to use support that
need that's that becomes key
and also in relation to financial firms
as well are you seeing a lot of common
mistakes that they are making in
relation to actually adopting new
technology if I'll be honest with you I
think in financial services specific
there are a number of consistent things
that I'm seeing in terms of adapting to
the pace of technologies and and
disruptions that technologies in
particular are making to their
organization whether it be internal in
terms of their operations, their
systems, their processes, efficiency
models, etc. Again, the attraction of of
talent and how you know talent is using
technologies to almost do some of the
things that the
organization isn't fast enough to adapt
itself to. And therefore you're seeing a
proliferation of more people starting
their own business, more side hustles
etc etc because people are working out
how to do things for themselves. So why
do they want to lean into an
organization? So there's some some some
consistent things. I think the things
where I'm seeing variables is that
return on
investment. It's it's how much money do
we need to put into something in order
to get the return of from it. And
therefore when it comes to these
technologies and the
disruptions the level of investment put
into the solutions is is variable
dependent upon the organization the
market that they're in the sector that
we're in their the current focus etc. So
I think it just depends on the
organization you're dealing with rather
than saying there's a blanket thing
that's relevant for every single
organization. I think it's quite
personalized in this day and age and in
fact I see the future of financial
services becoming much more so. It's the
use of AI and said technologies in order
to create a much more personalized
approach a unique approach to delivering
products or services to meet a
customer's need. That being said in our
business we certainly saw that postco an
immediate retraction back to some of the
old traditional ways of working within
financial services. you know, use of old
historical data sets, more reliant on
credit risk, you know, you know, really
homing in on existing customer markets
because it felt safer after going
through a period of disruption where
they were completely out of control. Now
we're beginning to see it slightly move
the other way where traditional ways of
thinking is now being almost reversed
again to say, "No, we need to be a
little bit more out there. We need to be
a little bit more competitive. we need
to be out there competing with the new
technologies in this volatile economic
environment. So there's just been a bit
of an up and down journey that we're
seeing in financial services overall
particularly from our business point of
view. No, of course and I think
especially in your business specifically
you're very focused on datadriven
insights and within financial
intelligence but how do you see AI
transforming decision making within
financial services? I think the in again
maybe controversial to some. It's not
about the data. It's about the
actionable insights that you get from
the data and how do you use that. The
role of data though is is very important
because you need to make sure you got
the right data inputs coming in. You
have to make sure that data is clean.
You have to make sure that data is not
biased because all you're going to get
is insights that are going to be aligned
to the things that you already have.
Don't want the biases that you're trying
to get rid of, etc., etc. But ultimately
you need insights that can help you to
make better
decisions. And I think we can't get too
sucked into the role of technologies and
datadriven technologies from our world
anyway because those are just enablement
tools at the end of the day. These are
enablement things that help you to be
able to get the right information to
then do something with it. So decision
making for me is about well if we are
confident that we're getting the right
data in and we're confident that the
processing of that data is in the right
manner then we can be more confident
about how we use the insights that we
get from that in new and exciting and
different ways. So for example we
started our business to really focus on
lenders who needed deeper insight on the
performance of underserved businesses to
reduce their risk of lending money to
them. As time's gone on, we've seen that
same problem now within the VC
space and the private equity
market. So, we've evolved our business
to also develop solutions that are
looking at those spaces too. Now, there
are similarities, but there also very
clear differences. So the data inputs
that we get in those different markets
will be slightly different which will
mean the insights will be slightly
different but that's fine because we
know that the inputs we're getting is
give us the insights that we need to
support the specific needs of those
different markets but we know the
foundation is the same. So therefore we
know we can provide the solutions that
across different financial markets with
different insight levels but we know
that the methodology and our focus and
the infrastructure that we use in order
to support those different needs is
relatively the same. We just know that
the data inputs will be different. The
insights will be different and as long
as we're controlling that in the right
manner then we'll be able to use the
insight to provide a greater service to
those markets and that's kind of how we
look at it in that way.
That makes a lot of sense. So um
obviously you touched on whether uh if
firms have the right data that's
essentially the starting point but
although when we've spoken to like a
bunch of different people they've said
they still have like outdated processes.
So I guess my question to you is where
do you see the biggest inefficiencies
and how do you reckon technology for
example automation can help address
these like outdated processes? I see
that question from two sides. I think
the the the latter is is the process and
systems that you then have in your
organization to deliver on what the
insights are telling you. And that's why
we have our consultancy side of our
business. It's not just about use AI,
get the data. It's like let's work with
you to make that you know realistic and
practical in the environment that you're
in in the organization and to meet the
needs of all your stakeholders in the
way that you wish. So that that's that's
the I think the former side is about and
it's about leveraging certainly in our
business my former experience as a as a
corporate governance auditor. So when we
work with our clients I've been able to
use that
experience excuse me with the team to
ensure that we are helping those
organizations to assess their own
processes and systems in the first
place.
So the former then gives you a complete
end to end level of support because we
can help you find the the inefficiencies
in your processes and systems before we
even bring in the technology to help get
the insights but then then to use it
means that there's a full 360 level of
support that could be provided. And I
think the format is where we're seeing a
lot of the challenges in the industry.
It's it's the understanding that your
systems are outdated. So if your systems
are out are
outdated, how do you even think it can
compete in the modern and traditional
markets that you're in at the pace that
they're going at with the volatility
that's in those
spaces? So get your house in order
first, then you start thinking about how
you can compete and then innovate for
the future. But it's that outdated
systems and processes often based upon
old thinking traditional conservative
mindsets particularly within the
financial services space and if I be
frank a complete driven focus on
profitability at all costs I think we're
living in a world now where you have to
be profitable as a business but you also
have to also have to prove multiple
impacts across different markets across
different areas whether it's social
impact environmental impacts longerterm
governance impact etc. There's multiple
impacts, multiple versions of
profitability now than ever before. So
yeah, get your house in order first I
think is the key thing. Then you can
start to set a a great um framework of
moving forward.
So when you touch on making sure
companies get the house in order before
taking that step make this first step in
digital transformation, what you think
the first critical step would be in
doing that? I think first and foremost
it's it's helping them to
articulate their challenge with doing
that because it' be wrong for me or any
organization to come in and say right
you're doing this this this this this
wrong because then it becomes a very
transactional process. If you're really
committed to change, then you have to do
it as in a collaborative way. And that
starts by helping the organization to
understand their own challenges in a way
that helps them to kind of see, right,
we want to get from A to Zed. We know
that we've got challenges here, here,
here, here, here. We know we need
support in those areas and these are why
these are challenges. How do we plug
those gaps? What support do we need to
plug those gaps? Once they take
ownership of the challenge rather than
say, well, this is our challenge. you
need to deal with it. If they take
ownership but are working in a
collaborative fashion to solve those
challenges, then they have complete
accountability throughout the whole
process. So it doesn't become a
transactional process where we do all
the work. We want to come in and work
with you in a partnership and in a
collaborative way because when we do
step away, you need to carry it on. So
you have to have a sense of
accountability and ownership from the
beginning of the process, not when we've
come and done the work and handed it
over to you. Now, some organizations may
have a different philosophy in the way
of working and may enjoy coming in just
being that transactional, but for me,
collaboration and partnership is about
long-term business opportunities as
well. And we want to build that trust.
We want to build that support. We want
to build that relationship with the
client. And so, let's help you get that
accountability from the jump and then
see where we go from there.
That's amazing. So how do you see
balance automation and obviously
balancing that while still maintaining a
personal touch with this industry
because we know in the financial
financial industry that human
interaction human touch is still very
important. So how do you still ensure
the balancing of the
both have to be hand in hand so you know
people are the people create the
systems. So ultimately you need to make
sure you're providing the right type of
support for the systems. Now don't get
me wrong, particularly with AI, the
systems will learn and learn and start
to do things that we can't even maybe
think about as human beings. But
ultimately, it's people that create the
infrastructures, they create the models,
they create the algorithms, they create
the logics behind technologies. So who
are the people and how are you
supporting them? How are you ensuring
that there's processes in place to
reduce bias in the creation of these
systems? How are you making sure that
the people who are responsible for the
development of these systems are doing
it in the right way? Are aligning with
with objectives both internal and
external for your clients. How how are
you making sure that there's the right
training and support in place for the
talent and the individuals working on
these systems. So it has to be a
balanced approach. It's I don't think
it's one or the other. And I don't
believe that AI is going to take over
the world and take over human jobs. I
think it will make some jobs redundant
where there may be much more mundane or
boring or repeatable tasks, but you
still will need people in order to
deliver on what the technology is doing
for the organization, whether it be
through the insights, whether it be
through the delivery of services,
whether it be afterare services and
ensuring that the client and customer is
still being supported. So you're always
going to need people, but there needs to
be a kind of a balanced strategy in
terms of technology and human
intervention.
Yeah. And I think that's all. Sorry. So
I just want to say I think that's one
thing a lot of people's thought
processes behind AI as well. They like
to think that AI is here to take over
and get rid of jobs. But I think in a
nutshell it's here to compliment. And I
think as more people realize that and
the more people are more willing to
actually adopt and stop having that fear
in the back of their mind. Absolutely.
Now you know in our business we we
developed our own proprietary automation
AI. So we designed our AI model from
scratch partly because it just gives us
you know our IP value and feeds into our
whole kind of value as an organization
in different ways but ultimately we
didn't need to have a super complex AI
system either. We just needed something
that did a specific role that
kickstarted the flywheel of everything
else that we needed. So we were very
clear on the use of AI in our
organization and the control of that.
But we knew that the value that we
provide will be value that we can hand
over to our clients and our partners and
our stakeholders because that's what we
wanted it to do. really wanted to
generate insight that they could use and
make bespoke to their organizations so
they can go on and create the massive
impact aligned to the values of our
organization which has always been
around that sense of financial inclusion
for all businesses regardless of their
difference and that's why we built our
automation AI model around but it's a
very simple model but it's so crucial to
the delivery of what we want to do and
therefore the people element for us was
about making sure that we got the right
people in help design that with the
right values aligned with what we want
it for, but also in a way that can
produce the type of information that
will be equitable for our clients to be
able to use so they can then do things
in a much more inclusive and equitable
way and and we had to make sure that
process was aligned and we achieved
that. But we've still got so long to go.
you know, as far as we're concerned, we,
you know, we started trading
commercially, I guess, 3 years after we
were founded, 2 and a half years after
we were founded. So, we're still a
relatively young organization, but we
also recognized how quickly we could
scale by focusing on being lean,
focusing on those key components in the
right way, in the right order. and and
part of that was about building an AI
enhanced product that can get
commercially viable before we need to
start thinking about heavy investment
into team staffing and and everything
else. So we were very lean on purpose
and we achieved that out and everything
has has gone exactly how we wanted it
to. So yeah, great things, great time,
great opportunities, but it's about
having focus on what's most important
first and how technology plays a part in
that in order to start everything else.
I just wanted to like flip the scripts a
little bit. So what would you say are
the risk or challenges in relying on AI
and automations too much? Like how do
you think you navigate the balance?
It's a great
question. I think I mean if I'll be
honest with you there are so many
unknown risks. So you know in terms of
what we we can see and what we do know
it's being heavily reliant on models
that themselves can become outdated
because of the pace of change in the
space. I think that's the biggest risk
partly because because people see the
value of AI in particular. There's
constantly constant innovations
happening in the space. We saw that with
the introduction of Deepseek against
against Open AI and Chat GBT which no
one probably saw and and more
specifically the fact that no one saw it
at a lower cost base than it took to
create what everyone was revered as the
nana of AI. Within a few short months
everyone's like okay that's no longer
the nana of AI. What can I do to be the
next Deep Seek? you know, to the point
where Open AAI are now having to make
changes to their solutions and their
products faster than they even wanted to
just to remain competitive in a space
that arguably they've owned for the last
couple of years. So, it's really
interesting how that pace of change in
of itself has become a massive risk at
the highest level. So at a kind of lower
level if you like an and an organization
like ourselves and and industry
organizations who are who are trying to
do things in the right way with AI
responding to that pace of change can
often take a lot more resource than you
had. It can take a lot more time than
you thought and it could take a lot more
reliance on people and resources that
you maybe didn't want to
but until you get to a particular level
you have to do what you need to do in
order and in the right way and in a
positive way and obviously a legal and
regulatory way but you have to do
whatever you need to do in order to get
to a point where you can remain
competitive because the pace of change
is that quick. So I think Darnell,
that's the biggest thing. It's the the
risk of not being able to keep up with
the pace of change when using AI. I
think that's the biggest risk.
Understood. Would you say it's number
one hard for firms to be competitive in
this rapid evolve industry now? And what
would you say would be the main
important shift that they need to make
today to stay competitive? Be very clear
on your niche and validate your niche
before you make heavy investment in the
space. I'll give you a really simple
maybe off pieced example but say for
example you have a vision say in 10
years you want your organization to be X
you know you know the you know typical
phrase is the X of X you know the Uber
of this or the Airbnb of that or you
know whatever the the phrase may be but
you want to be something you got a very
clear vision of what that something is
but you're starting from here so that's
a 10 year
vision so along the way. There's going
to be different iterations and different
evolutions of your organization to get
there. You won't be the same business in
five years that you are now. You
probably won't be the same business in
12 months that you are now, let alone 10
years. So the key thing is being very
clear on what is your super niche. What
is the thing that you want to be known
for? And it might be a subset of a
existing market. It might be the subset
of a subset of a subset of an existing
market. But it might be that might be
the first stepping stone to give you the
heavy traction and the foundational
structure in place to be able to then
build upon the business and scale from
there.
So having a very clear focus on a super
niche gives you the opportunity to
create a bit of a molt around your
business away from competitors will give
you the space and the revenue and the
ability then to reinvest in the
resources in order to be able to scale
and become competitive in a wider market
down the line. You know, we often hear
about kind of blue ocean theory and
those types of ways of thinking and
being in a whole new space by Yeah, I I
I hear that. But whose needs are you
supporting based upon the level of
resource and ability to compete that you
can now and then that might shift down
the line when you're at another level
and it might shift again when you're at
another level. But what's your super
niche now? So for us for example at GFA
our super niche financial inclusion high
growth businesses within underserved
markets and identifying them and
evidencing how they are growing and the
ability for them to be super high growth
businesses and doing it from a
datadriven approach. We often focus
particularly on women ethnic minorities
disabled founders but we can work with
any business in any underserved market.
But that's where we start in those three
areas because we know that the economic
contribution of those three
groups is actually not being fully
appreciated in the mainstream market and
often because there's not enough insight
about how those businesses are
performing in the way that traditional
financial system regards those
businesses. Technology and AI has been
able to change that around. So that's
been our super niche that we've started
from which is now evolving into
different spaces.
So having that super niche is important.
Yeah. No, it's definitely clear. And I
feel like the having that niche is
important, but I feel like even with
everything you said in this podcast, you
made it clear that the client's focus is
always front runner. 100%. Yeah. 100%.
like like sorry to call you but you know
for me whether it's an underserved
business and an underserved market or
whether it's a massive Silicon Valley
tech giant that's getting billions of
years of funding each year there's still
a fundamental client need that needs to
be solved so the question is are you
solving that need directly or are you
working with those and supporting those
who were serving those needs directly
with us we down we went down the B2B
route so we saw the need over here but
we also knew that if we support the
financiers who are supporting those
markets
or if we can help them to understand how
to support those markets better
financially from a business point of
view, the revenues will be better for
us. But it allows us then to reinvest
back into the resources that can then
double down on support to tackle those
needs at a greater level than us trying
to do it directly ourselves because
unfortunately the market didn't have the
level of resource that we would need in
order to achieve what we needed to
achieve as a business to support their
needs better as a startup ourselves.
when we get larger and greater, we could
flip that model and work directly with
the the end business or or what have
you. So, you have to look at your
business model and understand what makes
sense for where you are without losing
sight of where you want to be long term
and what how you want to help solve that
customer's need long term. You know,
from where we know where we're going to
end up, we are not going to be the
business that we are now, but we know
that technology will be central to
accelerating our support for those needs
more than we can do now. But what we're
doing now is working so we know we're on
the right track and that's kind of how
we kind of pan out what we're doing.
Yeah. So just to quickly just touch on
what you just said. Obviously you have
got target audience who you are
specifically looking to serve but I know
you are still expanding your reach quite
quite aggressively. So what would you
say is your biggest learning curve in
getting your solution in front of the
right sort of financial firms whilst
you're looking to expand? Don't go too
broad too early and be wary of great
opportunities too early. Um, so when we
started our business, we went straight
in at enterprise level as a as a fintech
startup. So let let's let's let's
remember that we founded our business I
founded the business in 2019. We went to
market in February 2020. Co hit in March
2020.
So we spent the first year between
founding and launching in February just
trying to get an understanding of what
this needs to look like as a business
and just doing some pilots etc etc. So
by the time we were ready to make our
big push, COVID
hit. So we made a decision to stop
commercially trading for the two years 2
and a half years of COVID when including
the kind of release period straight
after the lockdowns and use that time to
work with our target market in order to
build our product alongside their
needs because we already knew what their
needs were precoid but the whole market
had been completely disrupted. So that
means what we planned to do was not
going to work in a disruptive market
because our very target market didn't
know what they needed anymore in the
right way. We knew what they wanted in
terms of outcomes. We didn't know what
they
needed. So we decided not so we made we
earned no money as a business as a
startup for two and a half years and we
made that strategic decision to do that.
Do you think about that? It's not
because we couldn't have tried to make
money. We decided not to make money
because we felt that the focus on
creating a product that is so
intrinsically designed to the needs of
the client is going to be more important
for the long term than just trying to
survive as a business now. And it was
hard. You know, we got some we got some
innovate UK money. We talked to some of
the R&D. We had a private angel who gave
us some, you know, I'll be transparent.
gave us less than £20,000 to help build
our first MVP when we eventually came
out back into the market. But for two
and a half years, we made no money
whatsoever. But what we did do is get
all the value that we needed to ensure
that when we come back out into the
marketplace, we can go and approach and
work with businesses at the highest
level. So that's why our first client
was one of the top five UK
banks. As a fintech startup, as a solo
founder, my first client was a major top
five high street
bank. And not just the fact that they
were bank, but they saw our longerterm
vision. And so the funding that we got
from them and working with them also
helped us to fund our longerterm vision.
So we now have a network that sits
alongside our business which has about
160 financial policy businesses and
technology leaders who give us constant
insight into what's going on across
those three market areas. So we got like
our own living breathing R&D kind of
network for our own business now only
because we took the time to really build
around alongside the
need which is why it's given us the
opportunity to now think about how we
can expand our business when we've only
been commercially trading for about two
years two and a half years.
So strategically sometimes you have to
make the sacrifices up front and believe
in the vision so much that you'll get
the return down the line.
And even as a new startup which arguably
most startups fail within the first year
first three years about 90 95% fail
we're still here 5 years on. I'm still a
solo founder. I still have less than 10
people in the team. I don't I'm the only
full-time employee in my business and
I'm proud of that because I've been able
to operate a model which is so lean yet
can compete with the biggest competitors
in my market or because I've learned how
to use technology but focus on customer
need maybe better than them and we were
profitable in our second year as well by
the way so profitable fintech company
that works in the highest level better
and faster than my competitors because
I'm quite proud of that and that just
gives me even greater confidence to know
what we're about to do and people will
see that when they need to see that but
it's going to be
interesting that that that's pumping me
up.
Oh, look. I I started the conversation
when we were just going the podcast when
I started talking about I guess the
personal side of this journey as well.
And I think one thing that's really
important for me is that because of
where we are, I'm coming from as a black
person in the technology
space. Quite often I've come across many
people in our spaces who've kind of what
we call cold switched themselves
individually where they've lost their
sense of authenticity about who they
are.
What's given me strength in what I'm
doing and what I'm going to do is that
my own cultural background has given me
the sense of values, disciplines and the
cultural conditioning to harness the
types of skills that are inherent in our
communities that I feel have been
absolutely aligned with technology. So
the fact that as a culture we've had to
be resilient. We face challenges every
single day. We face hurdles every single
day. We're perceived in a particular way
every single
day. You can adopt those things as
negatives when you go into these newer
spaces and go in there with a chip on
your shoulder. For me, I flick that
early doors. For me, those things are
power
levers because when it's all said and
done, my real life
experiences make the world of business
child's play. And I'm not saying child's
play from a point of saying, "Yeah,
we're sitting here and all our, you
know, we've got money coming out of our
orifice and, you know, we're this that
and I'm not saying that because we're
not, we're still on a journey as a
business." But what I am saying is that
when you look at life versus business,
life is far more harder and far more
important than growing a successful
business to
me. But the lessons I've learned in life
have 100% allowed me to accelerate the
value of the business that I'm building
and the reasons why I'm building it.
And those lessons are absolutely founded
in where I'm coming from in terms of my
culture, in terms of my race and in
terms of the experiences and the wisdom
of those who have come before
me. And the moment I lose that is the
moment I lose my own authenticity about
my
business. And so for me, it's not a
black thing, but it's also but it is an
appreciation of recognizing that my
experience is my
experience. And if I put my experience
to one side for the sake of wanting to
be successful in business, then what's
this all for? What's it worth? And this
isn't some kind of woke kind of approach
to life. It's a reality check that it's
about being your authentic self. no
matter where you are, no matter what you
do, but you have to understand what your
core values are and what drive you and
where those things are founded. And
that's no different for somebody who's
not black, who's who's not male, who,
you know, who didn't go who did go to
university cuz I didn't go to uni. Like,
it doesn't really matter. It's your
experience is your own experience. but
what you draw from that and how you
articulate that and use that in your
work. That's why we need an inclusive
world that allows people to be
themselves regardless of what industry
that they're in. I just feel that in the
technology space and with AI in
particular within financial services,
those types of skills are the
differentiator and I'm all behind it. I
absolutely love it. So just just about
to wrap up. So, how what would you say
for JFA exchange's next goal for the six
to 12 months?
Yeah. Um, I mean, there's some things I
I I won't mention yet.
Well, keep
it secret. Um, you know, the world will
see when they will will see it. But
specifically, it's about adding value
into the venture capital and private
equity markets. Um, you know, that's
kind of our our next push. We know what
works in the lending space, but we've
seen some great opportunities in those
markets to help more businesses get more
access to higher levels of capital to
help them to grow their business faster,
you know. So, the VC space is quite
interesting and private equity space is
definitely interesting in terms of
helping to unlock more capital from
those markets to help businesses grow
even faster at higher levels. across
different markets. So that's kind of our
push over the next six to 12 months,
hiring more staff and and kind of now
starting to build a much more of a
formal team around what we're doing. You
know, with our extended partnership
networks, we have access to about 30 40
people at any one time in our business.
So we effectively have a a really good
growing team. But having a bit more of a
core nucleus of of a team is is where I
want to kind of move next six months in
particular. Um, and I guess the third
part really is expanding our business
abroad. Um, and and kind of working with
partners in in different areas in terms
of actually having locations of of
office locations in some of those those
spaces. So again, have a look and see
what happens over the next six to 12
months on on on that and uh I won't talk
much more about that side, but I'm very
very excited about some of the things
that we're looking to do with some of
our international partners. So yeah,
interesting times ahead. That's amazing.
Let him warm. Let him cook. Let him
cook. Oh, listen. I've got it.
You know, it's there, but you know, like
any good meal, you have to make sure you
keep an eye on it.
100%. You got you got to marinate the
meat before it's ready, before it's
ready to listen, listen that lemon on,
put that vinegar on. Make sure you
picture you wash down that chicken
early,
don't it's been an amazing conversation.
a lot of things that you touched really
was heartfelt and really inspiring. So
if our viewers listening, if they're
looking to reach out to you or also GFA
Exchange, what's the best way for them
to reach out? Yeah, I mean hit me up on
LinkedIn um Joel Blade OBE um go to
GFAexchange.com
um click contact comes through to to the
member of the team who's looking after
my emails and and they will send it on
to me. Um but yeah, just I'm I'm I'm
approachable. I'm around if I can help I
can. I will if I can't I I'll certainly
see what I can do to support either way
and um look forward to to hear from from
some of your viewers. Perfect. Now much
appreciate. Thank you again Joe
for the NA shift again. Thank you Joe.
It's been a pleasure. Now thank you for
your time. Really appreciate it. I wish
you the very best of luck with your
business too. And I know you're going to
make an impact for for so many
organizations. So everybody watch out
for Novi too. I appreciate that. Thank
you.