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We educate investors and potential investors on the in's and out's of investing in rental property. We focus on residential and multifamily investing, but include commerical, storage, mobile home parks, and more. We interview industry experts on tax strategies, property management, vendor selection, syndications, capex, and more.
I really love saying yes to contractors. I love taking a crappy old building, you know, fixing it up, turning it into something that's viable, that revitalizes a part of time. What is it? A third of the economy is construction. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Love saying yes. Buying something. Realtors make money. Title companies, mortgage companies, the contractors, the electrician, everybody makes money.
Nicholas Cook:Hey, investors. Welcome to the retire on rentals podcast. I'm your host, Nicholas Cook. And in this show, we explore how to optimize real estate investing, create passive income, discuss operational tactics, and ways you and your family can retire on rental income. If you wanna invest in real estate or currently do, then this podcast is for you.
Nicholas Cook:Alright. Well, it's great to meet with you finally, Joe. This is Joe Squires. He's the owner of Admiral Properties and has had a lot of success in commercial real estate over time. So thanks for sitting down.
Nicholas Cook:You've got a great story. I think that people were gonna wanna hear. And so, you know, excited for you to be here. Thank you.
Joe Squires:Oh, thanks for the invite, Nick. Appreciate it.
Nicholas Cook:Not a problem. So before we get into the real estate stuff, which, you know, everyone is obviously here for, I'd like to learn or maybe you could talk a little bit about kind of your just background and your journey and how you got into real estate because you've got a great story. So maybe you could just give give the audience a little bit idea of just your kind of trajectory and and some of the background for you.
Joe Squires:Yep. I mean, and I belong to a a mentorship group, entrepreneurs organization, EO. Yeah. And part of what I adore about that is, you know, that, you know, being able to ask people, you know, ask your peers something and you get really good uncensored advice, input. I I I got into commercial real estate.
Joe Squires:I mean, I I I think like a lot of people, you know, like was flipping houses. I was flipping houses in the nineties. I'm an electrician by trade. Okay. And I have a, you know, unique skill, and I'm also not I don't shy away from, you know, doing the other things, tiling and painting and plumbing and, you know, etcetera, cutting in windows.
Joe Squires:I mean, so just early on, I would, you know, just buy a house when I had money saved up back in the early nineties when it was easy. Yeah. And, you know, remodel it, flip it. And that's kind of how I got into it, the houses and moved on to commercial real estate.
Nicholas Cook:Got it. Okay. So yeah. So electrician by trade. So when you're flipping these houses originally, sounds like you were doing a lot of the work yourself, even tiling.
Nicholas Cook:I mean, there's various disciplines across flipping houses. And so you were doing the
Joe Squires:whole thing. Did say I was the best at it, but I knew how to do it. Yeah. Yeah. The Home Depot special.
Joe Squires:You could walk down the aisle at Home Depot and you'd see a lot of those mirrored in the houses. But, yeah, they're pretty interesting.
Nicholas Cook:What decide what, like, made you decide to get into that? Because, obviously, jumping from being an electrician, right, where you're doing work on properties is a is a different risk profile because, right, when you're electrician, you're getting paid for service jobs and, you know, installs, whatever it happens to be. But flipping a house, you know, you're you're putting your own money there. You're you're risking and not going well. Like, what what kind of kind of prompted that interest in the first place?
Joe Squires:I don't know. Just early on, you you know, you just recognize, you know, there's the difference between, you know, having a job.
Nicholas Cook:Mhmm.
Joe Squires:I mean, and being wealthy, I guess. I I grew up very poor. I mean, food stamps, government cheese, you name it. And I I just I I early on recognized, you know, the key to the success is hard work and and just digging in there. So, I mean, I I never shied away from that.
Joe Squires:And early on, I was doing these wiring jobs for a guy named Dan Jones, and he was doing infill houses. That's where you buy a house with a large lot. You segregate off one of the lots. You sell the house and you build on the lot. He he was doing these lot segs and infill.
Joe Squires:And that's before it was a verb. Mean, this is the early nineties when we became very popular. And I just remember visiting one with him, and I'm like, you know, I'd like to learn more about this. And he was like, take a week off from work and come shadow me. I'm like,
Nicholas Cook:oh, wow.
Joe Squires:I'm like, I I can't afford to do that. Mhmm. And I remember it. He was like, that's the problem. Most people are too busy working and they're they don't have enough time to learn something that could make them wealthy.
Joe Squires:And I thought about that. And the next day I called him like, I'm in. You know, I'm gonna put in some time off from work and I'll shout at you. He's like, great. Meet me at my house Monday morning, 7AM.
Joe Squires:Alright. Lived out in Battlegrounds. So it was quite
Nicholas Cook:a, you know, quite a drive. Bit of a hike. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Yeah. And he every Monday morning, he had what he called eager beaver realtor day. He's like 80% of the listings happen on the weekend. And he was like, so they put him put the listing in over the weekend, which is the eager beaver realtor. Yeah.
Joe Squires:It hits RMLS on Monday. She was like, scoured. He literally scoured the RMLS and he had filters looking for large lot, etcetera. And and so he printed off, like, 70. And he's like, you know, look through those.
Joe Squires:And he told me what he was looking for. I'll never forget it. He was eating a bowl of Cheerios or of Fruit Loops, and he he answered the door in a robe that was loosely tied and underwear. And I was kind of
Nicholas Cook:like, oh, really? What kind of training is this?
Joe Squires:I should have let somebody know where I was going to be in case I turn up missing. So a little later, he's, you know, he's talking. He's eating this bowl of Froot Loops. Look at that. Yeah.
Joe Squires:That one's a good one. And he, like, a a red Froot Loops fell out of his mouth and landed on his underwear. And I'll never forget. Was kind of like, okay. And he flicked it off.
Joe Squires:There's this red stain on his underwear. It's just one of those things that's kind of burning your memory.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Since you're like,
Joe Squires:we we filtered out about 20 houses. We jump in his car. We jump in my car. We I park at Mall 205, and we spent the whole day driving around looking at houses, and literally, he found what he liked, and he was called up his brokerage office. He was, like, make an offer on this one.
Joe Squires:I mean, I yeah. I think he bought three houses on Monday.
Nicholas Cook:Not messing around.
Joe Squires:Not messing around. And then Thursday, he's like, this one looks good. What do you think? I'm like, yeah, it looks good. He's like, make an offer.
Joe Squires:I'm like, really make an offer? And he's like, that's why you're here. Make an offer. And I made an offer. It was the first house that I did an infill on.
Joe Squires:So that that kind of got me into I was flipping houses at the time that got me into the construction side of it.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. It's a different different thing.
Joe Squires:He recommended some recommended some contractors, and I I slipped the house segregated, had to use his brokerage firm, and that was my first infill. Cool. That was pretty pretty cool.
Nicholas Cook:That is neat. Yeah. And there's, you know, dealing with the cities involved with that and, you know, all the kind of adjustments and Yep.
Joe Squires:So I've seen permit fees go from, you know, you know, 18,000 back in the, you know, late nineties to a 100,000 now.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I mean, it's
Joe Squires:SDC fees creep in water parts, etcetera. So
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. It's wild. And, you know, they're hopefully course correcting on some of that, but that's been pretty crazy. Well, so one of the questions I have, your your property your company's named Admiral Properties or right? Admiral Properties LLC.
Nicholas Cook:Right? So I've gotta ask, are you were you an admiral?
Joe Squires:No. No. I'm far far far from it. It's I I was in the navy. I joined the navy right out of high school.
Joe Squires:I was a electrician on a submarine, and we used to joke around. The the the the top ranked enlisted person on the sub is called top. You know? So you you don't you don't say master chief or senior chief. You say, hey, top, you know, I have to replace that rising stem gay valve.
Joe Squires:And so we used to just joke around about some people's rank. Yeah. Just, you know, as you're sitting around, hanging out. And Sure. It's one guy started calling himself LT, which is lieutenant and another just as a joke.
Joe Squires:And so I started calling myself the fleet admiral, which is the highest rank, you know, during time of war. It's a five star admiral. And so admiral properties, you know, is my logo is five star.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I saw that. Yeah.
Joe Squires:The admiral. That's the admiral insignia. And my first email address was f a o t w, which is fleet admiral of the world. So, yeah, admiral is is just a nod to nod to nod to the past. Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Cool. Yeah. Well, that makes sense.
Joe Squires:Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Great name. Love the story. So, you know, it sounds like your first, you know, kind of opportunity to invest in real estate was flipping properties. How did you find that property? How did you fund that?
Nicholas Cook:Because, you know, you mentioned that, you know, early on, didn't have a lot of money. How did how did that all happen?
Joe Squires:Well, I had a full time job. I was an electrician. I was making pretty good money. And every time I deposit my check, I would take 10% of my check and just sweep it over to a savings account. Things were different in the nineties before the real estate crash.
Joe Squires:I mean, literally, I mean, there were you look back on it now. I haven't thought about it in years, but you look back on it now and how ridiculous it was. I mean, it was like, what is it? The $80.10 tens? I mean, you finance the bank finances 80% of it.
Joe Squires:You get a second loan for another 10. I mean, you can come in with it at minimum 10% down or there's even ways there were even ways around that where you could get a third mortgage for the other 10. So you're coming in with closing fees. So you're buying a, you know, 80 to $100,000 house. Real estate is cheaper than 80 to $100,000 house, maybe $5,000.
Joe Squires:I mean, so.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Okay.
Joe Squires:It didn't take long. So when I was buying a house every six months, then I'm flipping them. I mean, some people say it's more expensive now. The houses are more expensive and the financing is a little tighter. So it's, I mean, yeah.
Joe Squires:So, I mean, I'd I'd save money, buy a house, work on it on weekends and after work. I mean, I was working six tens as an electrician out of Intel. So it wasn't uncommon for me to, you know, six in the morning till 04:30. And I'd grab Burger King on my way. Mhmm.
Joe Squires:You know, and just show up at the house and work till 10:00 at night, home, take a shower, and get up the next morning and rinse for a pee. It was hard.
Nicholas Cook:It was to be before you had a family. If you're pulling this pulling this kind of hours. Yeah.
Joe Squires:No way my wife would like to do that now.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Fair enough.
Joe Squires:But, yeah, that was it. That's that's the financing part of it. And then it's a snowball, as you know, because you you know, didn't really spend a lot of money on things. So, I mean, you just kind of use that for the next one and the next one and the next one. And I started my electric company in 1998.
Joe Squires:I quit my job in 02/2002, but somewhere in there, I knew I wanted a commercial building as well. Got it. So Yeah. So let's talk about that. That kind
Nicholas Cook:of pivot to commercial. You know, a lot of people are very intimidated by commercial. They're willing to do houses, flexes Yeah. Maybe even multi family. But commercial is a different ballgame because you've got longer vacancy periods, they're more expensive assets.
Nicholas Cook:Also got, you know, just cost repair on commercial assets is more expensive. The going rates for contractors. So, you know, how did you get comfortable with that? Like, what made you leap from, you know, conventional residential to commercial?
Joe Squires:Why you know, what you do for a living scares me, to be honest, because I've had a couple of multifamily and I just got my teeth kicked in. I mean, it was just it was to the point where, you know, it's just complaining about everything. I mean, you know, the the you know, the tenant laws and and Portland here are they're very aggressive. And probably eight, ten years ago is when they shifted, when you had your Chloe utilize and Joanne Hardisty's in and suddenly rent caps, etcetera. Yeah.
Joe Squires:And the management company I was using, I remember getting a letter like what you like. Somebody threw a couch out in the sidewalk and we had to pay to get rid of it. So we backcharge him and they sent us a letter saying, well, there was a rodent infestation. That's why we did it. So not only do we want you to pay for our couch, but no.
Joe Squires:So we hired an exterminator who came in. He's like, there's no rodents. And so we back charge of it. And then we get a letter from an attorney and our property manager, Kerr Property, Sean Kerr. That's like, there's a form letter.
Joe Squires:He's like, there's literally you can pay $20 to go on a website, enter your problem, and they'll spit out a very legal form letter. And he's like, we're seeing them. And so we had to offer them a discount. And I yeah, I decided then and there, like, I'm of moving out of out of it. I mean, it's a landmine.
Joe Squires:You know, it's a, you know, commercial is much more business. I mean, you don't pay rents due on the first, late on the fifth. If by the, you know, by the fifteenth, you start accruing penalties, it's not a habitability thing. So, I mean, you know, you know, and if you're fall, you know, forty five days behind, I can come padlock your space.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. You're done.
Joe Squires:You don't live there. Whereas, you know, what an FED, you know what it takes to evict someone.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. The human element and residential is And where you live. Viewed very differently.
Joe Squires:So, I mean, I I tip my hat to you doing what you do, to be honest, because, like, I, you know, our text exchange, I mean, there's stories.
Nicholas Cook:Oh,
Joe Squires:yeah. And there's photos and stuff. And I'm like, holy moly, I would I would have a hard time keeping my composure. So and whatever twenty years of owning commercial property, I've only had to evict one person. I've only had to chain one spot.
Nicholas Cook:Well, it's not bad. Yeah. Pretty solid. So it's great.
Joe Squires:But
Nicholas Cook:So what was the first commercial property that you, you know, purchased? How did that work? What prompted that? Maybe you could tell us a little
Joe Squires:bit about that. Yeah, it was in February, late two thousand three. I was over on Sixtieth In Oregon Street. I was running my electric company out of my garage. So bedroom was an office, you know, the laptop there, one laptop.
Joe Squires:So I'm out in the field working. My sister was my office manager. I couldn't come back home to the office because we only had one computer. Yeah. Gang boxes and, you know, all kinds of conduit stuff in the in the garage.
Joe Squires:My poor wife because, you know, electricians were showing up at 06:30 to grab parts and there's a couple of times she did the walk of shame, you know, had to had to work and they're, hey, good morning, Stacy.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Like, oh, yeah.
Joe Squires:So, I mean, I I knew the next step was, you know, getting a commercial property. And so I just found a cheap one. And I think it was 250,000. My friends called it the apartment because the guy who built it built apartments. But he did this one as offices.
Joe Squires:Oh, it was two levels garage and stuff. And I bought it, worked weekends, replaced windows, redid the wiring. It was my first first dip of the toe into a commercial. And, man, a lot of mistakes, a lot of fun. I bet.
Joe Squires:Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Well, you know, obviously, you've got the commercial background. A lot of people, you know, when they get into real estate investing, you know, the big learning curve for them is really learning about maintenance and repair and what needs to be done and vocabulary and Yeah. Cost and things like that. How do you think being an electrician has made you a better investor?
Joe Squires:I I I almost flipped that around too because when I'm walking like capital projects with property managers or, you know, with manager, not even CapEx projects when I'm just walking large projects, I I speak the language of their P and L. I speak, you know, like, you know, this doesn't look good, you know, you know, on your NOI, it doesn't look pretty. But trust me, this avoids future pitfalls. So I I think the other way around speaking their language is what's helpful. Yeah.
Joe Squires:They recognize that I get it because for a long time I shied away from being the electrician on commercial buildings because people tend to as weird as it sounds, people tend tend to not want to do business with people who are successful. Yeah. I mean, oh, I'm paying way too much for electrical. Joe owns a building. I mean, so I really shied away from that for a long time.
Joe Squires:Even though it wasn't overpriced electrical, it was just that's what I wanted to do with my money.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of interesting because it varies on profession. Right? You go into a law firm and you're like, wow.
Nicholas Cook:You guys have four floors and this thing looks sparkling. Same thing with banks.
Joe Squires:Yep. You
Nicholas Cook:know, people are like, oh, I actually feel better about this.
Joe Squires:Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Some industries are kinda like, wait a minute, what's going on here? You're probably making too much money. So if your real
Joe Squires:estate broker shows up wearing sweats, you know, in an ACDC T shirt, you're like, okay, that's not very professional. So there's a fine line there too.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah.
Joe Squires:It's interesting. Yeah. But yeah. So, I mean, speaking speaking their language really helped. And a little later, I just started it started just kind of drifting out.
Joe Squires:But, you know, that I owned, you know, real estate and I found it was helpful. So the people understood that, you know, I I I knew what they were after. I knew what the end end game was. And groups like entrepreneurs like EO, the entrepreneurs organization, I mean, being able to pick the brain of people.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. It's great.
Joe Squires:Not only a banker, you know, finance person, builders, etcetera. I can remember very well a a plane ride with Barry Raber where he was talking about, you know, the relationship between net operating income, your NOI and your cap rate and evaluation Or he's like, you know, really, if you think about every dollar and NOI that you can shave at a six cap is $17 in value. And he's like, yeah, it's why grinding away on that NOI should be your top priority, whether it's maintenance or, you know, you know, cutting costs, raising rent. And he just he went over the different levers you can pull to do that. And that was we're on our way to a forum retreat.
Joe Squires:And I remember, you know, purposefully buying the seat next to him so I could have bend his ear for about two or three hours over it. And and that relationship, you know, that relationship between cap rate and aligned valuation Mhmm. Is still what I you know, the math that I do in my head when I'm thinking about things.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Well, that brings us up, you know, a good question is underwriting properties. Right? Figuring out, okay, what is a go, no go deal? What are some of the things, I mean, you mentioned obviously cap rates, know, you're looking at that.
Nicholas Cook:What are some of things though that you consider when you're evaluating a property and whether or not you want to purchase it?
Joe Squires:I I have a different I mean, we think of things differently. Like, we bought of you know, because, you know, we don't have investors. I mean, we we have partners on a few buildings, but I can remember, you know, eight, nine years ago, we went to buy our office in Southeast Portland, and we sat down with Tim O'Brien, who does a lot of infill, you know, and I remember him going, you know, this is a great property. You know, the zoning is going to change in the next decade. And he's like, the problem is, you know, I do most of my work with investors, you know, who get a certain, you know, know, you know, rate of return.
Nicholas Cook:Sure.
Joe Squires:They don't like it when I sit on properties. I can't land bank. And he's like, you guys are a really distinct advantage because you're going to buy this. You're going to move your electric company into a rent out a couple of spots and you're going to sit on this for a decade and let the let the zoning sweep through you. Yeah.
Joe Squires:And he's like, that's a really cool model. And it was right around that. I'm like, that is a cool model.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. It's unique opportunity. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Yeah. So, I mean, we we don't have an IRR. We have to hit. We don't have, know, financing, you know, etcetera. Or, you know, there's a company in Vancouver, IDM, that that that I follow that model.
Joe Squires:A good friend of mine, Sean Rogers, works there. And IDM stands for invest, develop and manage. And that really started to define what we do. We we purchase, we redevelop, we repair, and we self manage. So, I mean, that that's it.
Joe Squires:We have a property manager who's part time, you know, manages just our properties. Yeah. We have a full time construction manager who does our TIs, our tenant improvements, and our repairs and stuff.
Nicholas Cook:Got it. But Yes. You're looking at long term potential. Right? That's kind of what you're trying to figure out how to do.
Nicholas Cook:Because, obviously, at some point, if the zoning's gonna allow that building to be repurposed, you know, maybe scraped and Yep. You know, go vertical.
Joe Squires:And and as soon as Portland fixes their woes that we were talking about before the show and, yeah, multifamily comes back. I mean, but, you know, so being able to pick Tim O'Brien's mind and get that thumbs up. Yeah. I mean, what was it? Four years ago, you sent me a pro form a pro form a for multifamily you're working on.
Joe Squires:Yeah. I remember calling you like, this is the nicest pro form a I've ever seen in my life. Who did this? I mean, it was impressive. And you're like, I did.
Joe Squires:That's what I went to went to school for. I'm like, holy crap. I mean, it was impressive.
Nicholas Cook:Kudos. Yeah.
Joe Squires:So I'm at a very good advantage. I can look at a at a property, and my wife and I can literally, while we're watching, you know, a TV show, just open an Excel spreadsheet. We have a template. But open it and just back up napkin, throw numbers in, and we're like, that's close enough. Let's
Nicholas Cook:do it. It gives you enough to at least make an offer, and then you can kinda drill down in
Joe Squires:your Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:This looks good. Inspection period.
Joe Squires:Let's do it. We don't have to nail it. I mean, I'm sorry. I I looked at your pro form a, and there's a lot of stuff on there I don't understand because I don't have to. Sure.
Joe Squires:You know, I'm not bringing in outside money. I'm not offering a rate of return, you know, you know, equity on the flip side after pref tree, you know.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah, have a different model.
Joe Squires:I know all that. I speak the language, but I wouldn't if you presented it in front of me, I wouldn't know whether that was a good deal or bad. Sure. I just. Yeah.
Joe Squires:I mean, that's kind of Stacy and I's model is, you know, we buy something, we remodel it, we get either we self rent it or we like I used to just move, leapfrog and move my electric company around my poor employees after their fourth or fifth move. And then we rented out. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it's just a different model for me.
Joe Squires:It's, you know, the deployment of cash, you know, how long is that cash can be tied up before we can remodel the building, get a tenant in and get a cash flowing and refinance.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. That makes sense.
Joe Squires:Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Makes sense. Great. Well, you know, when you're in the commercial space, you know, some of the things that have really come, you know, into the into play more and more has been cost segregation. Is that something you guys have been able to take advantage of? And maybe you can tell us maybe a little bit about Yeah.
Joe Squires:Cost segregation for depreciation. I mean, again, there's a EO came into it because probably, like, three or four years ago. I mean, Jay Torgerson, our our CPA was talking about it, but then there was also a person who came in who talked about accelerated depreciation. And that's taking certain things, electrical, roof, mechanical. What is it?
Joe Squires:You'd probably know better than me.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I mean, really any fixtures that you can depreciate.
Joe Squires:Yeah. And and just saying, you know, electrical, for example, you know, a build a thirty nine year depreciation on a commercial property. But HVAC is a ten or twelve year depreciation. Yeah. So instead of taking all that depreciation over thirty nine years, you accelerate the depreciation for certain things that won't last as long.
Joe Squires:And probably four or five years ago, the first time we did accelerated depreciation on something. And so I mean, all the all that depreciation on your K one starts to add up to the point where now we literally can manage. We know what our depreciation is per year and we know how much we can make to avoid certain taxes.
Nicholas Cook:Sure.
Joe Squires:Wink, wink. Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:And that's the game,
Joe Squires:you know? And yeah. So, yes, we've accelerated depreciation, something we've done, we've used. And I would say, I mean, you probably run out of, you know, you don't probably don't need to do it on every property, you know? Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Depends on your whole
Joe Squires:On your income. Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Exactly. And there's a lot of factors that kinda go into that. And that, you know, speaking to investors and things like that, that can be a benefit for investors. Some people are looking for the tax shelter that that provides being, you know, an investor in
Joe Squires:the building. But if you're gonna flip the building in a decade and you've got all this, you know, accumulated depreciation, you have to pay back when you sell. Sure. Then you then you there there's a lot that plays into it. Yeah.
Joe Squires:I mean, you know, we plan on holding a lot of our properties, you know, forever. I mean, we we have a trust and our our kids have a skip. I forget what they call it out.
Nicholas Cook:Generational skip. They're
Joe Squires:allowed to sell the buildings unless there's an emergency. Yeah. And it's
Nicholas Cook:That's smart because, you know, a lot of times when people have legacy planning or, you know, they're passing down assets or businesses within three generations, it's gone. Totally. You know? And so
Joe Squires:I have a photo of my of my grandmother sitting in front of her childhood house in San Francisco. And my I the way she told it, my great grandfather heard her dad was pretty wealthy. Was in commercial real estate in San Francisco. Mhmm. And then, you know, and then then in the thirties, things went south and, you know, the depression and they ended up selling that.
Joe Squires:He passed away. We had a lung cancer. Anyways, if you think about it from a 30,000 foot level, every family should have property. Sure. You work your whole life to pay off a house and own it.
Joe Squires:And then the problem is is you pass away and your three kids sell it. Mhmm. Remodel their kitchen, go to Disneyland, or buy a boat. Yeah. And an entire lifetime of assets are are poof.
Joe Squires:So our take on it is is, you know, we don't want that to happen. Yeah. The the book, The Good Earth, you know, Pearl Less Bucket. I mean, we don't want it all to go away. Sure.
Joe Squires:So that's why we did the the generational skip. I forget the phrase you used.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. No. I I think that's really smart because I thought a lot about that. And you see it in other countries, you know, especially in, like, Europe and things like that. Like, oh, this has been in our family for five generations.
Nicholas Cook:Or, you know, I have some friends that, you know, live back east and, you know, one of them lives in Charleston. And, you know, they have a beautiful home, you know, that's three generations deep. It just those are things that you can't replace, but it also provides a lot of stability. Right? Because you're spending so much time Totally.
Nicholas Cook:Trying to secure housing and, you know, and and yep. People somebody just spent their lifetime acquiring and paying it off, and then you liquidate it for, you know, like you said, boats, trips, things that you don't necessarily need. So I think that's a You
Joe Squires:are spot on. You are very spot on. And and that's a weird thing. I mean, I used to work with a Vietnamese guy who's like, the the tradition is the the father of the bride buys the the bride and groom a house when they get married because he was complaining he had three daughters. He was he was an electrician.
Joe Squires:He's like, he's like, Joey, I I I have some problems coming down. Yeah. And he's like, but I mean, he goes, you buy your daughter and her new groom a house, and then their job is to start setting what would be a house payment aside to earn interest, invest in what, you know, whatever. And by the time they have kids, they buy a house. I mean, it Yeah.
Joe Squires:They that's a that's a generational wealth mentality. Yeah. I mean, it's smart.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I know some people that bought when they first had kids, they bought, you know, I think, like a duplex for each one of them. And by the time they were in college, that duplex funded their college.
Joe Squires:Absolutely. You know
Nicholas Cook:what I mean? And so, I mean, that's a great great model. You mentioned, you know, on a couple deals, like, you don't have investors, but maybe a couple you've got some partners on. How do you keep everything kinda simpatico with with partners? Because, you know, you got more cooks in the kitchen.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. You know, is that something that you have really thought about, or is that something you've kind of just gotten lucky and it's not been an issue? Tell us tell us a little about that.
Joe Squires:God, I love your show, Nick. Seriously. I love your show. You have some great questions. Sharp dressed.
Joe Squires:Great questions. Line it up. You you know, we used to never have partners. It was like we want we, you know, you know, we we don't want to muddy the waters.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Sure.
Joe Squires:And then at some point, you know, you just begin to trust people. I mean, and you, you know, you shouldn't climb into bed financially with someone that you're not you don't have the same values on. Yeah. And it just, you know, we we own a building with Janelle Isaacson, and it was literally we were looking for a place in Vancouver. And I reached a point if any commercial brokers watch this.
Joe Squires:Man, they're we are looking for something. So, I mean, what I began to notice is, you know, I just reached out to the top two brokers. I'm interested in something. Great. You know, we met.
Joe Squires:I'll send you something every week. Well, a month later, I stopped getting it. You know? They they just they stop. It's a spinning place that wobbles and falls.
Joe Squires:And so I just set up a grid. Here's where I want to own, and I just drive up and down the street. And when I see a building I like, I pull over. I take photos. I email it to myself with the address.
Joe Squires:You usually end up with about 20 buildings I like. Yeah. Go back and start looking it up on GIS or Portland Maps who owns it, upload the photos. I just have folders. Mhmm.
Joe Squires:And I start dialing for dollars.
Nicholas Cook:There you go. Calling people up. You're the broker now.
Joe Squires:And you really have to be mentally prepared for that because you get, you know, if I'm calling 25 people to, you know, you know, hey. You know, and I had an all shock story. I'm an electrical contractor. Looking. I'd love to open a branch in your, you know, and your building is perfect.
Joe Squires:I'm not a developer. I'm not a monster. My Godzilla sweeping through Tokyo quite to get out. I'm just a just a normal guy. Yep.
Joe Squires:And which really helped. But, man, I'd it'd be like 24 f u's and one maybe. That's all Put
Nicholas Cook:on your armor before that happens. Yeah.
Joe Squires:I turned the lights off. I'd close the door, and I'd, you know, I'd just get ready to just be verbally assaulted. Called I called somebody once a building on my Twelfth And Division. And literally, the son answered and he's like, we are in the hospital right now. My dad is dying.
Joe Squires:You are a monster. And I'm like, that is really bad timing. I'm so sorry. You know? Oh, hey.
Joe Squires:What's your email address? Can I call you? No. I mean, it you? Oh, gosh.
Joe Squires:I felt so bad. But then they put it up for sale six months later. I was like, yeah, couldn't save some brokerage fees.
Nicholas Cook:So
Joe Squires:but where was it? So we're looking for a building. We found one, made an offer. The guy said yes. And then he went away.
Joe Squires:So we made another offer on another building, got it, moved to the electric company. And then a week later, this 80 year old guy who on the Lucky Loan Building in downtown just signed the PSA and faxed it back to us. No. He didn't have he didn't know how to scan an email. So he just faxed it probably from, you know, from an Office Depot or something.
Nicholas Cook:Good thing you kept your fax.
Joe Squires:And I'm like, literally, we are in escrow. And I remember telling Stacy, I'm like, this is legit. It's seven months old, but it's legit. What do you think? And she said, well, we don't really have the bandwidth.
Joe Squires:And we happen to have Janelle coming over for dinner that night. Yeah. And we're all just sitting in the back patio having dinner and a glass of wine. She's like, I'm trying to open a better branch of living room Realty in Vancouver. Like, funny.
Joe Squires:You should
Nicholas Cook:ask. Interesting.
Joe Squires:We are in escrow on something. That she looked at it. Janelle's the kind of person we we would, you know, do a building with. There's some people that are hands off, some people that are very involved. I'm very involved.
Joe Squires:I'm the guy who's construction is my big thing. The the leasing is Stacy's thing. So, I mean, you know, you know, help where you can. And Janelle was really helpful in the design, you know, the the little touches and the little aesthetics. I mean, and I'm not aesthetic.
Joe Squires:I'm I'm the function over fashion. So I mean, to have somebody come in and, like, we want an inlay of the tile of the foyer with the year the building was built. And you're like, that's really cool. I never would have thought of that.
Nicholas Cook:That's some character.
Joe Squires:And it's what people really dig when they walk in. So just making sure we own three buildings with partners and, you know, all all three of them are more on the passive side. One person's a little more involved and he's as involved as he wants to be. Sounds good. If he's like, I want to do business.
Joe Squires:Sure. No problem. I mean, come on down, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, but all three of these people are what I would consider very good friends and and people, you know, they understand what we're after.
Joe Squires:Like, one building we bought right before the, you know, the the COVID. It was expected that we were gonna flip it in a couple years to somebody building apartments and and then this big pandemic came through. I'm not sure if you've heard of it.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I think I read about it somewhere. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Probably on MSNBC. And and yeah. So, I mean, often we switch to a it looks like we're holding on to the same for a little longer than we thought.
Nicholas Cook:That's how it goes. I mean, yeah. I mean, we broke ground, I think, in 2019 Yeah. Late twenty nineteen on the apartment building, and then all that stuff went crazy. And Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:We're still alive, and the building's full. So that's great. But, yeah, it's been a been a hike for some stuff.
Joe Squires:But I remember when you were, you know, when your your construction loan was turning. I just I remember that. I was like, oh, boy. You know what? You know, at some point, you you you have to take a gamble.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I mean, that's how you're gonna be successful. You gotta take a leap. And, you know, the thing is is, like, I always try to put in the context of, you know, if this goes south, no one legitimately actually dies. Right?
Nicholas Cook:Like, I'm not, you know, a surgeon working on someone and it could go awry and they lose their life. It's like, these are all about, you know, at the end of the day, balance sheets. Yeah. And, you know, people can recover from that kind stuff. We were lucky that, you know, the bank was reasonable and worked with us, and we got everything kind of back on track.
Joe Squires:Bank doesn't wanna own that.
Nicholas Cook:No. They don't wanna own that, and we weren't the only person, you know, in this in that situation with, you know, the bridge loan, and so, you know, was one of those things where, you know, they were like, okay, you guys are making the payments, so that's great. Number one. Number one. And we understand that this is not like a operational issue or a competency issue.
Nicholas Cook:It's just a market situation. And so, you know, they they, you know, looked at the bigger picture and and, you know, we got that squared away. But it was, you know, when you're signing loans like that, you know, you're you've got some personal guarantees and that taught me a lot about what that actually means and the risk and just the stress that comes with that. But Totally. You know, again, it's just, you know, it's kinda part of the game.
Joe Squires:So Well, early on, it was like I came from nothing. Yeah. I'm okay, you know, gambling, you know, a little bit.
Nicholas Cook:Sure.
Joe Squires:You know, you know, you know, I've always just I can always just, you know, work harder. Once I got married and started having kids, you know, the the the the gambles got less and less. I mean, as the pot grows, you know, you're deploying that preservation. And yeah, yeah, somebody somebody just famously said, I have enough money that I never have to work again, you know, for the rest of my life. And I'll give my kids a couple bucks.
Joe Squires:It's like, why would I put any of that at risk where I lose what I have to never have to work and I have to go back to work? Yeah. I mean, which are which are good first world problems. I enjoy working. I enjoy the grind.
Joe Squires:I mean, there's also a, you know, a holistic thing to it. I mean, I really love saying yes to contractors. I love taking a crappy old building, you know, fixing it up, turning it into something that's viable, that revitalizes a part of time. What is it? A third of the economy is construction.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. No, it's a huge driver.
Joe Squires:And I love saying yes. Buying something. Realtors make money. Title companies, mortgage companies, the contractors, the electrician, everybody makes money. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Fix something up and it revitalizes the neighborhood. So, I mean, as weird as is, I, you know, I could stop. But, you know, I like being part of that economy. I I if if you've got if you've got the ability to do something, do you owe it to the world, to society to do that?
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. And I, you know, I think everyone's got different perspectives on that. But I think about it, you know, from the standpoint, like, even just like owning a business, you know, I've got, you know, team members, employees, and I'm really focused on their growth and development. And and it's actually incredibly satisfying to watch that potential get unlocked because, you know, a lot of the times you see somebody and you see what they're capable of before they do, and then you watch that, you know, become, you know, come to fruition and it's gratifying for them and for you. So, I mean, there's a lot of different elements of that.
Nicholas Cook:And, yeah, everyone's got kind of a different
Joe Squires:You do a great job of empowering your team too. You know? And you've told me before, just letting them handle certain situations, stepping in, you know, if it's a big decision or they're uncertain. But, I mean, yeah, you do a good job of, you know, a little bit of laissez faire, you know, with your employees.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Well, yeah, I appreciate it. It's always a learning curve. I it's a slow process of, you know, kind of putting in systems, getting people up to speed. But, yeah, that's ultimate goal there.
Nicholas Cook:We're gonna take a quick break here for a second for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll be We'll start
Joe Squires:right back. Oh,
Nicholas Cook:so our sponsor currently is SleepSound Property Man. So you'll find out Wonderful. Enough. Excellent. So we'll be right back.
Nicholas Cook:This show is sponsored by SleepSound Property Management, one of Portland's largest and top rated management companies that specializes in multifamily and residential real estate. They can help you acquire, operate, protect, and sell or exchange your properties. If you want to invest in real estate, give them a call or visit them online at sleepsoundpm.com. That's sleepsoundpm.com.
Joe Squires:And we're back.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. And we're back. Alright. Cool. We're back from the break.
Nicholas Cook:Let's dive into some more material. This has been great so far. I really enjoyed the conversation. Obviously, when you're out there, you're talking about, you know, dialing for dollars sometimes. What are some negotiation skills or tactics that you think you've learned or picked up along the way that maybe you'd be willing to share, you know, one or two tidbits for for people?
Joe Squires:You just give me goosebumps. Seriously, I get asked this a lot, especially when it's owner financing because, you know, getting an owner carry from someone, they don't even need to own it free and clear. They can still have a bank, though. Yeah. The last property we bought, you know, they have a bank, though.
Joe Squires:And, you know, he's got a guy have a really good rate. Rather not,
Nicholas Cook:you know, disturb that.
Joe Squires:No problem. Why? And I try to explain this to someone like, well, there's these levers, you know, you know, how much money down do you need? How long can you carry it? How long do you wanna carry it?
Joe Squires:What interest rate? You know, do do you have a do you have a mortgage that you need me to hit? Yeah. You're not coming out of pocket. If so, how much of that can I get applied towards principal maybe?
Joe Squires:You know, you know, price mean, and it's such a
Nicholas Cook:The Rubik's cube of, you know, debt and equity.
Joe Squires:You know. You know. And I've I've tried to explain it to people like, man, you really have to because, a project we got, you know, the broker, it it fail sailed. Somebody had it for two and a half years, fail sailed. Give it back to him.
Joe Squires:So the broker, I came in second, the broker called me and he's like, it came back up and I'm like, great. Is he still interested in owner care? Yes. Okay. Great.
Joe Squires:Tell him to meet me at the property because I want to face to face because this is this isn't over email. Yeah. And the first question is like, you know, what do you have in mind? I mean, you know, I mean, just and it is such a it's not you're not there to rip anyone off. It has
Nicholas Cook:to be a win win. It works.
Joe Squires:Yeah. What's your most important thing? He's like, well, there's like 11 of us that own this.
Nicholas Cook:Oh, you know,
Joe Squires:mom and dad owned it. Dad had an affair with the business partner's wife. So they owned 75, you know, all matriculates down. So, like, we have a cousin in Spokane who owns 1%. He's like, I need, you know, 700,000 down to pay off, you know, eight of the 10 minority partners.
Nicholas Cook:Sure.
Joe Squires:Yeah. Okay. That's a lot. That's a lot out. Can I get the interest rate down to 5%?
Joe Squires:Can you carry it for three years? Can I do, you know, etcetera, etcetera? Yeah. And then you're going from there. Okay.
Joe Squires:That's a lot. Can the price come down a couple 100,000 because I need enough money to do the TIs as well? So, I mean, yeah, that's a face to face. But you just you just mentioned the Rubik Cube. It's like price down payment,
Nicholas Cook:you know, you know, even all the stuff.
Joe Squires:Yeah. Even, you know, how long how long can I am it? Can I am it for twenty five or thirty? Sure. Can I get some of this towards the principal?
Joe Squires:What's the interest rate? You know, you know, it's a three pays man. And it's it is so complicated. I mean, it's really hard to explain it to someone unless you watch somebody do it or, you know. Yeah, that's I'm pretty sure you'd be good at it.
Joe Squires:But, yeah, it's it. And that's the fun part, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's creativity. And, yeah, I know people who do financing where it's like owner Terry, get it, you know, and then get it appraised to pull money out and move on to the next one.
Joe Squires:I'm like, well, that seems a little shell gamey, you know? Yeah. This is just that we although we just bought one, a commercial building downtown and we put a significant amount down and the guy was underwater on it. So he's like, I want to I want to carry it for three years so that my my my payments, the amount of money have to come into closing in three years isn't as big. Yeah.
Joe Squires:We're like, Okay, well, our CPA just told us the IRS considers that a purchase because you put so much time.
Nicholas Cook:Oh, but
Joe Squires:we didn't. We have a contract to purchase it. We're like, doesn't matter. You put enough down. You're not going to walk away from it.
Joe Squires:You own it. You are depreciating. Oh, so that was a weird conversation. I was like, hey, my CPA says I have to depreciate this. You should probably talk to your CPA.
Joe Squires:And he's like, you didn't buy it. I'm like, I know I didn't buy it. Mhmm. So you learn something.
Nicholas Cook:You know, it's interesting too about that. And I and I this is way outside of my area of expertise, but because the Supreme Court basically overturned the Chevron decision, which is about agencies making laws and rules essentially that were not written. Yeah. So it's it's it's a pretty significant change in the way that things are done or have been done. And I'm wondering if the IRS kind of impression of that sort of thing is something that they simply willed into existence or if it's, you know, has some other form that's maybe more credible.
Nicholas Cook:Not that you're gonna go litigate this issue, but there's a lot of stuff that has been passed down as agency gospel that is now changing. In fact
Joe Squires:Oh, we
Nicholas Cook:there was a case in Louisiana last week where for the first time, we have a judge that basically said, hey, yes, this landlord can charge you pet fees or pet rent for your emotional support animal. And prior to that decision That was an issue. Yeah. Prior to that decision, Fair you know, everyone kind of had followed what HUD had said, which is, hey. You know, thou shalt not charge any, you know, fees, you know, rent or deposits on, you know, emotional support animals and so forth.
Nicholas Cook:But that's actually not written in the Fair Housing Act, and but that's an agency decision. So it's a large tangent, but I just it made me think about that particular dynamic that you charge.
Joe Squires:Damages for a support animal?
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. So that was never in dispute, but it was more about, you know, being able to, you know, charge what you would normally charge when somebody has a pet. Right? And and that that's really kind of the big difference.
Joe Squires:Talk about land mines for residential. I rented to a guy in a wheelchair once, and afterwards, he beat the crap out of the house, just the wheelchair. Yeah. And I went to charge of it. And I was told, what is your what is your expectation of damage for a handicapped person in a wheelchair in your home?
Joe Squires:I think this this meets what your expectation of damage should be like, though, and this exceeds it. Yeah. And I ended up having to walk away and eat it because it's like, you know, a person in a wheelchair will do more damage.
Nicholas Cook:The normal wear and tear standards may be different. Yeah.
Joe Squires:And so
Nicholas Cook:that's interesting. Yeah. Well, That's
Joe Squires:why I don't that's why I don't do what you do.
Nicholas Cook:That's why you stay away from yeah. That to Fair enough. Fair enough. Have you been in I mean, obviously, you've bought some stuff recently. Have you seen any or dealt with any challenges the finance market with having to, like, refinance or purchase?
Nicholas Cook:I mean, what is your kind of experience been in recent years?
Joe Squires:Yeah. Good question. I we have a really we we have two banks that we use. Commerce Bank is our primary bank. I mean, I'd say 75% of our buildings are with them.
Joe Squires:And even this one that I have to balloon, you know, balloon out is coming up in about six months. And, you know, when I ping them, it's like, what do you need, you know, to be able to refinance, etcetera? Having a good relationship with the bank is pretty key. Back in the recession, I was banking with Wells Fargo and they pulled my line of credit, demanded the money, started pulling money out of my bank to what I just moved. Yeah.
Joe Squires:I I couldn't wait to get out of there. I mean, I I haven't had a banking, a financing issue in probably I I mean, I I hate to say it. I just I have such a good relationship with my bank.
Nicholas Cook:I mean, that's excellent. That's what you want.
Joe Squires:Recommend that. And I'm sure he thinks I'm a, you know, I'm a gunslinger, but, you know, they love it. So, I mean, I haven't had I haven't. I mean, we we have enough equity in buildings. We have several lines of credit on several buildings with good equity.
Joe Squires:I mean, our PFS looks looks pretty decent. So I mean, you know, rates, interest rates are about all I think about. I mean, and, you know, when we're getting ready to buy something, that Excel spreadsheet, we open wall on the couches, you know, what are current interest rates and what our carry, what's our payment gonna be in, you know, reverse engineering it. You know, I mean, if I'm gonna buy something and deploy capital and lock it up for a couple of years, I wanna know that my, you know, cash flow from it is at least going down to pay it, you know, going to pay that down.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. No. That's super important.
Joe Squires:So, yeah, financing is interesting.
Nicholas Cook:Cool. Well, what's ahead? Like, what what's kind of on your radar is kind of where you wanna head with your, you know, portfolio, with your strategy? I know you're kinda balancing your passion for being in the business Yeah. But with also, you know, not being too speculative or risky.
Nicholas Cook:So what was kind of your vision for the future?
Joe Squires:Yeah. It's interesting. We bought two properties in Vancouver. I mean, and the the permitting process, the construction was great. I mean, the the mayor of Vancouver came to our grand opening after we remodeled the the hockey loan.
Joe Squires:Okay. I mean, so I really liked that. I mean, the tag situation in Portland, like you and I were talking about before before the show, like your producer and makeup person, you know, all of us were all talking about that. And, you know, tax situation, you know, our CPA is like, you can't, you know, you can't die in Oregon with all these properties because they cannot because the inheritance tax is, I mean, what is it? Like, 14%.
Joe Squires:I mean, it's incredible.
Nicholas Cook:And it I think, I mean, it starts after a million. So it's a a threshold.
Joe Squires:And a million is ridiculous, not inflation adjusted. And you learn about stuff like that. You're like so, I mean, so at some point in the next fifteen years, probably a decade from now, maybe earlier, you know, we'll probably ten thirty one some properties into a more tax friendly state. Arizona, Phoenix,
Nicholas Cook:Arizona, Texas,
Joe Squires:Scottsdale, Texas. Yeah. I mean, have to. We'll have to. Yeah.
Joe Squires:We'll keep the core here and then we'll just ten thirty one a few out to get under, you know, a certain a certain threshold. Yeah. You know, I tried to do a property in like Gresham once, and I didn't have the systems. I didn't I didn't like driving out there every other day. So we like being here.
Joe Squires:A lot of opportunities in Downtown Portland. We're talking about the, you know, the commercial, you know, the
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Especially if you have time. If you have time to watch the ship turn
Joe Squires:around. And wait. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we're talking about the price per foot.
Joe Squires:And if you're picking stuff up for $70 a foot and cost of construction is $25,300 a foot. I mean, at some point, you know, debt service is the primary thing, you know, I think about there.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's one of those things too because we've got that great skyscraper comp with Big Pink being sold at 20¢ on the dollar. And so, mean, that's just gotta ripple through the entire commercial community. And so there there are some opportunities to buy and, you know, we've been looking outside of Multnomah County, but, you know, at the right price, it doesn't you know, then you just you know, the deal makes sense and you got
Joe Squires:Yeah. And it's tough. So, I mean, I only have so many bullets to fire. Sure. It's only so much capital.
Joe Squires:So, I mean, so, yeah, when an opportunity comes along, it's like, do I want to? Do I need to, you know, back out of Oregon a little bit? Cortland. I mean, how how many more am I gonna buy? You know?
Joe Squires:But, yeah, it's you you and I are the same. We have a real estate problem. We have
Nicholas Cook:a real estate problem. Great. Well, I've just got a few kinda questions left here.
Joe Squires:I think we need an electrician to look at these lights.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. So these lights are on timers, and I don't quite know well, they're motion activated. And so I don't know if they overheat or what the deal is. But
Joe Squires:So you should we, like, have our guests do this every couple minutes?
Nicholas Cook:I I'm not sure. I gotta look into that part for sure. But, anyways, so we're moving to this part of the show here where we wanna learn a little bit about Joe. Right? So I've got a few questions just so that the audience can get to know you better and and and find out who you are.
Nicholas Cook:So, you know, the first question I have here is if you could have dinner with any US president, dead or alive, who would it be, and why would you wanna have dinner with that person?
Joe Squires:Without a doubt, James Madison.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. They're right on the Oh. You're ready to go.
Joe Squires:My useless minor in college was American history with that folks. Let me know. I listen to, you know, audiobooks and podcasts on, you know, the writing of the constitution. One of my favorite books is the, you know, Constitutional Convention of 1787 notes by James Madison. I mean, it is every speech, every argument on the Constitution.
Joe Squires:Some people are like the founding fathers said this.
Nicholas Cook:It's like,
Joe Squires:yeah, that's what they settled on. But really, what is this? Or, you know, when you talk about the Second Amendment, James Madison wrote the Constitution. James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights. Some people are like, you know, the founding fathers meant this for the Second Amendment.
Joe Squires:It's like, well, let's go write it. This isn't the 10 commandments. It wasn't handed down by some deity. Yeah. A man, and that man was James Madison wrote it.
Joe Squires:So let's find out what he had in mind when he wrote it. Yeah. It's pretty easy to go back.
Nicholas Cook:State of mind. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Madison. I mean, war of eighteen twelve, president, constitution, bill of rights. I mean, you just the guy's one of the smartest people to ever be in the Oval Office. I would almost put him up there, you know, ahead of Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson Madison were dear friends and corresponded a lot.
Joe Squires:Reading just the the letters they had is amazing too.
Nicholas Cook:Know. Sorry. Can only imagine living during that time and just like, you know, how volatile and unpredictable and just exciting in some ways, but then you've got, obviously, quality of life.
Joe Squires:Oh, quality of life.
Nicholas Cook:Was like, oh, boy. Yeah. Boy. It's like, I don't wanna be back then. That's for sure.
Nicholas Cook:But I mean, it's just, you know, they didn't know anything different.
Joe Squires:So Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. It was just great to have a bucket of fresh water at your, you know yeah. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Anyways. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Oh, yeah. Very much. I know. Well, maybe you can tell us something that you're passionate about outside of, you know, work, family, and real estate.
Joe Squires:Yeah. I I I'm a nerd. I collect football cards. I have for a long time. We're just talking about that.
Nicholas Cook:NFL football cards. I guess they aren't really college. Are there college football?
Joe Squires:There's couple of college. I I don't yeah. There's one set, the eighteen ninety four Mayo cut plug set from from 1894. That's college. That's Yale Harvard and yeah.
Joe Squires:So and Princeton. But, yeah. Anyway, yeah, I collect football cards. I'm a nerd. But, know, I have a couple of kids.
Joe Squires:I love walking my dogs with my with my daughter and trying to get my son to get out of bed early and come come to work and learn how to do stuff.
Nicholas Cook:Very cool. Very cool. Alright. And then, you know, the last question I have is if you had to choose whiskey or wine, what would it be?
Joe Squires:Well well, Nick, considering I've been in, you know, your whiskey collection and vice versa, I I think and we were talking about whiskey prior to the show. We were. I think whiskey, but man, oh, man, in moderation.
Nicholas Cook:Oh, yeah.
Joe Squires:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But
Nicholas Cook:like to get carried away with the cheese.
Joe Squires:I like them both, but I I sure do like my my my good bourbons.
Nicholas Cook:Good bourbons. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. What about Rise?
Nicholas Cook:How do you feel about those?
Joe Squires:Not not as much. Yeah. Yeah. I know you like your your Rise, but, you know, I've I've made you a couple of Manhattans. Yeah.
Joe Squires:Yeah. What about you? I mean, you I'm just I'm trying to think of your whiskey collection. It's mostly bourbon.
Nicholas Cook:It's mostly bourbon. Yeah. I have a lot of bourbon. I have some rye, and then I kind of got some Irish and scotch and stuff like that. But bourbon is definitely my go to.
Nicholas Cook:That's definitely something that I prefer. But rye's nice to kinda break up the pattern a little bit. And I probably, just in general, probably have more wine than than whiskey these days. I think you just go through phases. Right?
Nicholas Cook:You just can only have, you know, so much and then even then, I've I've kinda scaled back. It's I but I do enjoy the the hunt and and having something that's unique and rare and especially having it with somebody who can appreciate it and kinda knows the the story. Like,
Joe Squires:you sip a a rye like you would a bourbon or a scotch?
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you get some good ones. Absolutely.
Nicholas Cook:And and, you know, oftentimes yeah. I mean, they they have different flavor profiles for sure. But, yeah, I I it's pretty much knead or on their ox. 100%.
Joe Squires:Yeah. What president would you have dinner with? I'm curious.
Nicholas Cook:Wow. So, gosh, this has probably moved around a lot, you know, over time for for various reasons. I think I've held different presidents and different regards at at different moments and just, you know, at different phases of my life of what was more important. But I think without a doubt, I mean, I would probably go I mean, not to copy you, but it would be a toss-up between, you know, James Madison or Thomas Jefferson. And it's because George Washington's not really of interest to me.
Nicholas Cook:I mean, was the first president of The United, you know, states, but not necessarily the first president in America because because we actually had presidents that preceded that. But I think it's just the personalities. Because you know who I'd wanna actually have dinner with if it wasn't a president, but in that era was Ben Franklin. Because I think that would be, you know, somebody that would be incredibly fascinating.
Joe Squires:About wine and women. Yeah. Old Benjamin.
Nicholas Cook:He definitely dabbled.
Joe Squires:George Washington isn't as smart as people think is. A whole lot of pagil because he was number one.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah.
Joe Squires:But, really, he surrounded himself with, you know, Alexander Hamilton, you know, Madison first, you know, in his life. Yeah. And then later on, Hamilton. The constitutional convention, George Washington presided over that Mhmm. Because he was tall and he showed up wearing his general's uniform.
Joe Squires:George Washington Gotta look the part. Uttered one sentence in three and a half months, And that was in the last the second to the last day to put in a vote on a very, you know, lopsided topic. And I don't remember what it was. Sure. But stunning.
Joe Squires:He had the best seat in the house. He watched the entire thing unfold. Yeah. He said one thing.
Nicholas Cook:Yeah. Three and a
Joe Squires:half months. So, yeah, either he's incredibly confident or he was like, you know, better to be thought the fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Nicholas Cook:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's but would have definitely wanted to talk to either one of those guys. I mean, Thomas Jefferson was probably a little bit more of a drama queen than Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:You know, so but, you know, I think just knowing kinda what they were up against and the things that they thought through and the system that they put in place is pretty incredible.
Joe Squires:Yeah. Absolutely.
Nicholas Cook:You know, and people talk about, like, you know, well, they didn't know about, you know, the Internet and all this stuff. It's like, yes, but they knew about human behavior, you know, and that and that's really what, you know, they were trying to restrain is is the conduct of people imposing their will.
Joe Squires:That's why we have courts is to interpret the laws. Things change.
Nicholas Cook:Exactly. Or you can make an amendment.
Joe Squires:Or you
Nicholas Cook:can make an That's that's actually, you know, a mechanism for that. So
Joe Squires:27 of
Nicholas Cook:them so far. Indeed. Yeah. Indeed. Great.
Nicholas Cook:Well, Joe, it's been a pleasure talking with you.
Joe Squires:Nick, I I adore you.
Nicholas Cook:Thank you so much.
Joe Squires:I I adore you.
Nicholas Cook:I have a tremendous Sit down with me.
Joe Squires:Respect for you, your company. I love your love your shows. I I'm one of the three people that watches it.
Nicholas Cook:I appreciate that. It means everything.
Joe Squires:Julie and you. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicholas Cook:Cool, man. Well, we're gonna sign off here and enjoy the day.
Joe Squires:K. Thank you guys for tuning in.
Nicholas Cook:Thank you. And that concludes today's episode of Retire on Rentals. But we do have a quick favor to ask before you jump off. If you haven't already, please go ahead and like and subscribe. More engagement means better content and more excellent guests.
Nicholas Cook:And we look forward to joining you on your real estate journey. Now remember, stay focused, stay driven, so you can retire on rentals.
Joe Squires:You know, you know, how much money down do you need? How long can you carry it? How long do you wanna carry it? What interest rate? You know, do do you have a do you have a mortgage that you need me to hit?
Joe Squires:Yeah. You're not coming out of pocket. If so, how much of that can I get applied towards principal maybe? You know, you know,