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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Three Unlikely Fathers
00:00
Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. I am here with my good friend and co-host. Jesse French. Good to be with you, Chris. Hey, Jesse. You're always a little like, you know that we're gonna say that, and you're always a little slow and bringing yourself to like, and Jesse French. I just, maybe I'm trying not to be the like.
00:21
Sports radio. Welcome to the Denver Nuggets like all the way to into it. So you could have welcomed us to something besides the nuggets. It's true. That's so I could have done it. I know. Well, maybe you're a fan, but whatever. Yeah. Well, I know. Maybe in future episodes, I'll surprise you with some audacious intro. So challenge accepted, challenge accepted. And I know you're a fan and we're walking into some like holy territory when we start.
00:49
talk about the nuggets with Jesse. Friends. It's true. Near and dear. Okay. We're going to, we're going to back away back away from that. Okay. So I can do that. So Jesse, I wanted to tell a couple of stories about some men that I know that really impacted my life. So I'm going to start by telling you the story of a young man. He's a young father. He's got kids, two young boys who are like.
01:15
six, seven and like three, four age. And this man is, he's in full-time ministry. He loves the work that he does. He is married to a lovely woman and together they get to do this work together. And the unlikeliness of this guy is that he, for me at least, the unlikely fathering that I receive from him is that he's, you know, maybe
01:44
20 years younger than I am. And maybe 15, 20 years, I don't know exactly how old he is. I never asked his age. And he is Kenyan and he lives in the slums of Nairobi. His name is Bukin. So Bukin, if you are listening to this, this is a shout out to you, my friend. And he, I got to know Bukin, you know Bukin, you met him too a couple of years ago when we were doing some restoration
02:13
The thing I wanted to talk about today with regard to Bukin was the level of people that Bukin fathers who are not his children. The number of people that he influences with his fathering are just as astounding. So this last summer I was with Bukin and the Restoration Project team there in Kenya, and we got to spend a good significant amount of time with him.
02:38
He leads a ministry organization called Mashiyangu, and it is working with children in the slums of Nairobi. He's the one that started it. He started it with a co-founder named Marlene, and together they have built this beautiful, beautiful organization for kids. So we got to spend a good several days there at Mashiyangu. And what was most astounding to me was this unlikely father. He's this...
03:07
Now, okay, so first of all, Bukin, again, if you're listening. I need the picture here. I need the picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bukin, this is nothing to do with how tall you are, but, or how tall I am. I am 6'3". Bukin is not. So he's a shorter man. And let it be known that his stature has nothing to do with the level of influence that he has in the world. So there's this wonderful young,
03:36
Kenyan man who walks around the streets and slums of Nairobi, and people are waving to him. Children are running up and jumping into his arms. He finds a wayward child, he picks them up, and he brings them back home. There are men who are older than him, twice his age, who show him this level of respect. There are people who show up to things at Mashiyangu
04:05
just because he asked, he said, would you please come in there? They're like, yes, I will come. So, Bukin is this unlikely father in this shorter stature, this younger man, who's got young kids at home, who you would, you know, would be like, you know, you're not, you're not quite, you're just new in the father space. No, Bukin is, Bukin is a powerhouse of a father. And I bring him as an example, just because I love the guy. And
04:35
We're talking about unlikely fathers today. So he was the first to come by. Yeah, I can remember, and I think it was four years ago that I was able to meet Buken, and you describe it really well. There's a presence to him. I remember when he welcomed us into his home, and just his generosity and settledness to us and to the team and to the people there was...
04:58
was alarming like in a great way. Like, oh, this is different. This is not how I feel around like most men. And so totally agree with you. Yeah. Well, I bring him up because again, he is an unlikely father that you look at him and you go like, yeah, you've got young kids. You know, you're not old enough to father a community. You're not old enough to do these things and not old enough to have the respect of men twice your age, that kind of thing. And that is wrong. He is definitely this father, this community.
05:28
Couple days ago, I was speaking at an event and talking about Restoration Project. And one of the main avenues, aspects, roles that we have as men that we at Restoration Project believe is that, you know, God has called every single man on earth to father. And I want to be careful in how we language that because God has not called every single man on earth to be a father.
05:56
But it's called every single man to father, that the father heart of God is brought to the world through men. And every single man, regardless of age, regardless of marital status, regardless of whether he has children, regardless of where he lives in the earth, is called by God to father, to bring the fathering energy of God to the world. And I experienced that from this guy named Buken. And I don't want to jump the gun, but that phrase of to...
06:26
Every man is called to father that to me like just goes so quickly to how is that done? Right. Like because you because you're widening the definition of fathering beyond the raising of children within your household. You are saying that fathering looks fathering can happen to someone who is you can be fathered by someone who's younger than you. Like I feel like you're stretching beautifully this concept of what fathering is. And I'm excited to explore that more. Yeah. Well, I mean, let's let's talk about that, because I think.
06:56
We think about, you know, are you a father? Are you not a father as a man? And I want to say, yes, you are, because you're a man that is part of what God has designed for you. And one of the, there's so many avenues, so many directions we could go in the conversation today, but I feel like one of the primary pieces of what it means to father is to bring strong and tender presence to the world.
07:24
Strong and tender presence. That you are showing up and you are strong. That you have a weight, you have a grit, you have a gravitas to who you are. And you're not like overpowering. You don't have to like decimate other people in order to feel your strength. You just, you show up with strength. And in, you know, in that combination with tenderness, like you show up with your tenderness, like you have a gentleness to you. You have a meekness to you.
07:53
You have a level of humility to you. You have a sense of compassion. You have a sense of generosity and invitation and all of that. And so that's what I experienced with Bukken is that when Bukken shows up in the room, everybody knows he doesn't have an overpowering presence in the sense of like, he's the biggest physical stature in the room. He doesn't boom his voice everywhere to make everybody submit to listen to him. Now he is there.
08:22
He brings his strength and he also, like I said, he just snatches up these kids and holds them in his arms and gives them hugs and kisses and just loves them. And he's this tender, tender man and his presence is there. So he fathers those children, he fathers his children, he fathers the community and he fathers me when I'm in his presence. And I just, I love that about him. I think that that's a wonderful image that you just described for us.
08:50
That articulation of fathering as presence feels really important and profound, right? It's so easy to equate fathering as these particular actions, right? Like I financially provide for my family. I teach my kids a certain skill or like it's so easy to view, I think, fathering through that lens.
09:20
of these are the certain attributes or actions of it. And you're, you're again, expanding that out to say, yeah, those actions matter, but it is far more this presence of a a combination of strength and tenderness present by a man that that actually is the expression of fathering that I think is so needed. And also like, oh, this is a new paradigm to and actually more encouraging to think about it that way than, OK, it's this prescriptive list of nine or 10 things to do or not do. Right.
09:49
I feel like so many of us think that fathering is parenting. And those two things are very different. Parenting involves the provision. Parenting involves the holding of rules. Parenting involves guiding their children into making sure they get their homework done and they take the right amount of baths per week and that kind of stuff. That there's some level of discipline. That there's some level of general organization.
10:18
to their lives, that's parenting. And I have far more to say about parenting, but I'll leave it at that. But fathering is showing up and being present in the strength and tenderness that, you know, when we think about what does, if God were to show up in the room, what would he most want to bring? Would he most want to bring his correction? His chore list? His, uh, his uh...
10:47
you know, his anxiety about making sure that we have enough food in the fridge or money in the bank. No, he would want to bring his strength and his tenderness, his presence to the room, and engulf the room in the goodness of his strength and tenderness. And so when I think about as men stepping into the role of fathering the world, that's what I think. God is actually most interested in bringing to the world through us men. So, and not to say, not to say that...
11:15
those other things, chore lists and baths and all those things are not important. Those are, but they're not primary. They are, they are, yeah. It's interesting too, because I think if we're willing to have this perspective around what fathering is as this expression and offering of presence, I think.
11:34
Then we also then hopefully have eyes to see how desperately wanted and needed that is, right? When we begin to say, okay, if all men are able and built to father, and that is true, then that also, I would say, means that the need for others to experience fathering that you just expressed, that I feel that the world feels is massive, right? Like I- It takes all of us, all of our fathering. Yes. Yes.
12:04
So I share this not because to get the fathering trophy piece, even though I do love trophies, but I just see it. You know this about me. But I see this clearly right now in my life because I'm coaching my daughter's fourth and fifth grade rec basketball team. And so we have 10 girls that are playing basketball, many of them for the first time, and it's a ton of fun. It's also maddening on some level of.
12:31
you know, I played basketball, I love the sport and you know, we are but mere beginners struggling. And yet I bring this up in the fathering space because even in two practices that we have a week for one hour, I can see what a difference it makes when I show up into that space, uh, with elementary girls who I just met for the first time and I'm teaching them a simple game, but to pour in like
12:56
Hey, my, my belief in you, even as I'm teaching you how to set a screen or my excitement, as you try something new, even in something very, very simple as the, in the skill of the game of basketball, you see them respond to that, right? You see, Hey, there's this receiving of, of my presence in, again, in a simple way, there is a like, Oh, this means something like your, your presence and your words, they carry weight, right? Yes. Yes.
13:25
Well, I'll give you a trophy for that. Jesse. Okay. Great, man. Yeah, that's awesome. I'll hold you to that. Yeah, I'll put it on my desk. Because that feels, I mean, just even your awareness that of the shift and the difference of what you can bring there is really important. Tell us about somebody who would be an unlikely father in your, in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Someone that comes to mind is
13:52
a good, good friend of mine who's in his early seventies and he is a rancher. He raises cattle. His name is Cecil and which is such a good cattle farmer name. I mean, isn't it? It's so good. Like at salt of the earth, I would contend you can't be named Cecil and not just be a gem of a human, but, but I've gotten to know him over the past. You know, 10 or 12 years more extensively in the context of our
14:20
relationship has been in the space of raising cattle. And Cecil has raised cattle his whole life. And about 10 years ago, he gave me the invitation. He said, hey, and I also went to school to learn about that. That's a hobby that I enjoy, something I know a little bit about. But about 10 years ago, he said, hey, would you want to start your own cattle herd alongside of mine? And...
14:45
was just a super over the top, generous offer. And he said, you can help me work for me, do some chores, help me build some fence, a few other things, and I won't pay you, but the money that I would have paid you will go and I'll give you one of my cows and you can start your herd alongside mine. And so the fathering that I've received from him has been just this steady experience of a man who sees me, sees the space of cattle that is meaningful to me and has said,
15:15
Hey, I want you, I want you to join me in that. And so the invitation to that, the mentoring, which I even use mentoring kind of maybe a little sheet. Like I've learned so much from him, but the significance is not in the technical skills that I have learned in the knowledge, but it is in his presence that has said, hey, come join me in this. There's something about you that I see that is valuable and I want you to join me. And so it's been just remarkable gift. Yeah.
15:45
Oh, just the invitation to receive in that space something of his presence. And I love that you even said it wasn't about the technical skills. It was about just being around him that fathered you. Yeah. One of the things I love about him is his just willingness to, whenever I leave, like the goodbye process and my wife rightfully so is aware of this, like the goodbye takes like 10 or 15 minutes because we'll like stand up, pick up and talk about.
16:12
pay prices and cattle markets and weather and all the things. And I love it because it is, it's just, this is enjoyment of like, Hey, we can shoot the breeze around this. Yeah. And it's good. So yeah, even in that sort of small talk space, there's a enjoyment of that. Yeah. Well, I have one more story of an unlikely father that I'd love to share. Yeah. Some of you listeners may know that last year,
16:41
my mom passed away and had been, you know, somewhere between a 10 and 15 year journey of her disease with Alzheimer's and dementia that, you know, eventually last year just completely, you know, ended up losing her in November. And so that season for me was, it was anticipated, it was a sense of relief, honestly.
17:05
that she was able to go, the state that she was in, just, you know, my heart broke for her every time I was with her and saw her just because of, because of the state that she was in. And I know that she loves Jesus and she was longing to be with him and has longed to be with him for years and years. And so finally got to, but shortly after that, I was able to take a multi-day backpacking trip with my son and- Yeah.
17:32
My son is now in his early twenties and it was at his invitation that I was able to go on this trip. We were in some crazy places, in some places that this is the kind of trip that I loved doing and I loved banking as far as notching the belt kind of deal and I will never do it again. You did tell me that phrase. Yeah. Like, I will never do this again.
18:01
I will go other places, but not this one. But my point here is that, you know, from, I am his father. If there is fathering in our dynamic, we would expect that the fathering would be from me to him. And the beauty of this trip was that as we got to be on this trail together, his recognition of my loss, I mean, he lost his grandmother also, but his recognition.
18:27
of my loss and some of the conversation that he invited me to are conversations that my father, who still is alive, could have and should have taken me to. As far as like, I, you know, I lost my mom, my mother fathering you would expect would have come from an older man towards me. But it didn't, it came from a younger man towards me, it came from my own son. And the way that he engaged me and asked me about that and was
18:57
following up on further questions and his own tenderness towards me, his own memory of her and sharing some of those memories and all that. It felt, it was good because I was able to see his heart in the midst of it, but he was actually pursuing me from a fathering energy inside of him, that he was fathering me as we were walking this trail and he was fathering me as we were.
19:25
engaging these conversations. And, and I realized it in the moment. I'm like, what is happening right now? Like I'm supposed to be doing this for you. And I took, and then I kind of took a deep breath and I was like, no, this is, this is the father energy inside of you. And I get to also receive that from you. I get to also have you tend to me with your strength and tender tender presence. I get to receive that to you because you're also a man.
19:55
And just because biologically you're my son and chronologically I am twice your age, it doesn't matter that I can receive your fathering as well. And so that story aside, I just like the whole idea that every man is called by God to father. Doesn't matter your age, doesn't matter your experience, doesn't matter your relationship status
20:24
you know, if you've fathered, if you've created children biologically, like it is a matter of, we all are called to father. And it was such a sweet time with him. Thank you for sharing that. That image of a son fathering his dad is beautiful. And that's hopeful to me as I think about my son and just even bigger, just God's intent for us as men. I know we're wrapping up, Chris, but as we end and as we talk about
20:54
this call for all men to father. What, as guys, you know, turn off the episode, like, what would you leave us with in a step towards that or an application of that? And I don't want to make it a formula or an equation, but we're saying there's an immense need for that. And there's both immense need and an immense ability present in us. And so what would be one way to further lean into that as this conversation ends? Yeah.
21:22
Jesse, I feel like the number one thing I would want guys to be thinking about right now is do you believe that your presence matters? And I want to put it that way. Like do you believe that your presence matters? Not your product, but your presence. Not your bank account or your chore list for your children or your whatever. Not any of those things, but your presence actually.
21:51
It matters so significantly that the emanation of the goodness of God is meant to flow through you. Your presence matters. And I say that because if you don't have presence, if there is absence, then the emanation of the goodness of God does not and cannot flow through you. This is actually a deep partnership with God the Father. Do you believe that your presence matters?
22:20
And I can hear some guys going, well, my life, my wife, my church, my story, my presence doesn't matter. That's what I'm hearing from the world. My presence doesn't matter. All I'm good for is XYZ. And if that is you, I think I would invite you back to like, okay, so first of all, how did it come to be that way? Yeah. And then second of all, is that?
22:49
a narrative you're wanting to accept. So where did it come from, and where are you going, and then what would you like to do about that? And it doesn't mean you're going to change, flip the switch, things tomorrow are going to be different than they are today, but you know, what possibilities might be available for you if you actually believed that your presence matters? That's right. So I'd start there. Yeah, that's so good.
23:17
So practical, right? Even as you're talking about that, it does feel like it hits home. So whether you're driving right now, running on the treadmill, just about to go sit in journal, waking up, going to sleep wherever you are, pause for a moment right now and just take a prayerful stance and go, Jesus, help me know that my presence matters and see what he has to say about that. Yeah.
23:46
All right. Well, three unlikely fathers. We got Buken, we got Cecil, we have Aiden, and I bet there are a million other unlikely fathers out there. And I would wonder if you're one of them. So thank you guys for listening today. We'll catch you on the next episode. Thanks Chris.