S1E2 Carmen Best | You're Allowed* to Lead on Your Own Terms

S1E2 — Carmen Best | You're Allowed to Lead on Your Own Terms

Carmen Best — Former Chief of the Seattle Police Department, Speaker, Author, Changemaker

Guest: Carmen Best, former Chief of the Seattle Police Department, author of Black in Blue, and one of the most recognizable voices on leadership to come out of 2020.

Episode Description

People told Carmen Best she'd never be Chief. She mostly found out afterward — the doubt was happening in rooms she wasn't even in, about a career she hadn't started yet. She became Chief of the Seattle Police Department anyway.

In this episode of You're Allowed, Carmen traces the whole arc: a loving, lower-middle-class childhood in Tacoma where she was given permission to dream as big as she wanted, a "why not" decision in 1992 that turned into nearly 30 years in law enforcement, and the year the entire world was watching her city. She's honest about being the only woman — and often the only woman of color — in the room, the mentors who reminded her she wasn't alone, and the slow boil of experience that became her book.

Then she gives away the hard-won wisdom: how she knew when to walk away, why "if you need the job, maybe you shouldn't take the job," what she'd whisper to herself the day she got appointed, and what she's still allowed to want. It's an episode about permission and access — the story and the pathway — and it ends on the line that defines the whole show.

In This Episode

• The craziest thing people said would never happen — and why "people aren't always right"
• Growing up in Tacoma with strict rules but unlimited permission to dream
• The 1992 "why not" that became a 30-year career
• Being the only one in the room, and turning that pressure into purpose
• The mentors who taught her "you're not alone in this"
• Writing Black and Blue after the slow boil of 2020
• Leading Seattle through a mass shooting, a pandemic, George Floyd, CHOP, and the defund movement
• The council cuts, and protecting a department she'd just diversified to a record 39.9%
• Knowing when to hand over the reins — and why that's freedom, not failure
• A real leadership playbook: the 80% decision, thick skin, your North Star, and humility
• The lightning round: best advice, worst advice, and the one sentence she'd tell her younger self
• Being honored as the final Shoulders of Giants honoree and raising record support for Rise Up Academy

Key Takeaways

• People aren't always right. Almost everything Carmen accomplished, someone said wouldn't happen first — being Chief included.
• Dreaming is the starting line. Strict rules at home, but never a ceiling on what she could become.
• You're standing on shoulders, and someone's standing on yours. Being one of few made her want to do more, because the next generation would be judged by how she showed up.
• Mentorship matters — even when it's informal. "You're not alone in this."
• Leadership is rarely 100% certain. The best call might only be the 80% one. Make it anyway.
• Know your North Star and grow thick skin. People will write things about you that aren't true. Lead anyway.
• Real leadership is humility. Build a team stronger than you and set the environment for them to win.
• If you need the job, maybe you shouldn't take the job. Sometimes the freeing thing is being willing to let it go for everyone else's sake.
• Preparation is the best advice; "give up" is the worst. Opportunity without preparation isn't opportunity.
• Trust your instincts. They're there for a reason.

Memorable Quotes

"People aren't always right." — Carmen Best "If you need the job, maybe you shouldn't take the job."

"It's very freeing to say, this is the right thing to do, and I'm going to do the right thing."

"You just have to know your own currency and value it."

"The best might only be 80%, but that's what we're going to go with, because that's what we've got."

"You have to have thick skin and really know what your North Star is and what you're trying to achieve and why."

"Real leadership is assembling great teams... and setting the environment for them to have success."

"Trust your instincts. They're there for a reason."

"Giving up should be the last thing that comes."

"You're allowed to... achieve anything your mind can think of."

Timestamps

• 00:00 — The premise: what's the craziest thing someone told you you're not allowed to do?
• 00:34 — "People aren't always right." The things Carmen was told would never happen — including becoming Chief.
• 01:13 — Growing up in Tacoma: a loving, lower-middle-class home with strict rules and room to dream
• 02:20 — Starting life with permission to dream big
• 02:37 — 1992: deciding to become a cop on a "why not" pivot
• 03:17 — The reaction: "Not a lot of yes, you should do this."
• 04:25 — Almost 30 years in; being the only woman — and woman of color — in the room
• 06:08 — Mentorship: the informal mentors who said "you're not alone," including Rosalyn Melendez
• 07:35 — Writing Black and Blue: the slow boil that built up
• 08:03 — 2020: mass shooting, pandemic, George Floyd, CHOP, and the defund movement
• 09:32 — The heart-wrenching decision to leave the profession
• 09:52 — The final weeks: a loyal team and the plan to take back the precinct
• 11:32 — The council cuts and protecting hard-won diversity ($1.6M, 39.9% hiring)
• 13:26 — The access: innate or learned? "If you need the job, maybe you shouldn't take the job."
• 14:59 — "Know your own currency and value it."
• 15:10 — What nobody teaches you: the 80% decision and thick skin
• 16:02 — Lonely at the top, and the "sanity check"
• 16:33 — Leading people who don't want to be led; humility
• 17:05 — Real leadership: assembling great teams and servant leadership
• 18:07 — "If I'm doing my job right, I'm the least important person in the room."
• 18:46 — Lightning round: best advice (preparation is critical)
• 19:52 — Worst advice (anyone who tells you to give up)
• 20:26 — Music to reset
• 21:15 — One sentence to newly-appointed Chief Carmen: trust your instincts
• 22:03 — What she's allowed to want now: to keep making a difference
• 22:54 — Being honored as the final Shoulders of Giants honoree at the Columbia Tower Club
• 24:15 — Rise Up Academy, Emancipation Day, and giving back
• 24:56 — What Rise Up Academy does and why early education changes trajectories
• 27:06 — What she hopes people leave with: a call to action
• 29:07 — "You're allowed to... achieve anything your mind can think of."

About Carmen Best

Carmen Best is the former Chief of the Seattle Police Department — and Seattle's first African American police chief — with nearly three decades in law enforcement after time in the military and a stint at an insurance company in downtown Seattle. She is the author of Black and Blue, has worked with Microsoft, and serves on numerous boards while continuing her lifelong mission of helping people and communities.

Carmen is also a sought-after keynote speaker on leadership, resilience, and leading through crisis. She takes audiences inside some of the most-watched moments in recent American history and leaves them with a clear playbook for leading with conviction when the stakes are highest. Booking committees consistently describe her as the rare leader who can hold a room — and move it to action.

That ability isn't theoretical. As the final Shoulders of Giants honoree at the Columbia Tower Club, Carmen helped raise the most funds in the event's history in support of Rise Up Academy — a program that has spent 27 years getting young children, many from historically marginalized communities, ready for school and rewriting the trajectory of their lives. Held, fittingly, on Emancipation Day, it was a living example of what Carmen has always believed: real leadership turns a story into a call to action.

Book Carmen to Speak

Carmen Best is available for keynotes, panels, and leadership workshops. If you're building an event around leadership, public service, women in leadership, resilience, or leading through crisis, she's a standout choice.
→ To book Carmen for your stage or event, contact: [e-mail]

Support Rise Up Academy

Inspired by Carmen's record-setting Shoulders of Giants impact? You can keep that momentum going.

→ Connect with Carmen or learn how to support Rise Up Academy: [e-mail]

Whether it's a donation, volunteering, or mentoring, this is exactly the kind of "what's the action after the room" that the work is about.

Connect with Carmen Best

• 📘 Read her book, Black in Blue

_____

You're Allowed is hosted by Rachael Barclay. Part 1 is the story — the permission. Part 2 is the access — the pathway. 
Real people, real equity, real talk about the things nobody's supposed to say out loud.

What is You're Allowed*?

You're Allowed* with Rachael Barclay explores uncomplicating access to the dreams they never told you that you could have.

Rachael Barclay (00:04)
that.

What is the craziest thing that somebody ever told you that you're not allowed to do,

Carmen Best (00:08)
Oh my goodness, there have been so many things that I was told weren't going to happen, but they did. So most of the time I learned about it afterward, but even like being the police chief, because everybody recognizes that and it's so public, you would be surprised how many people said it's not going to happen. And at some point it felt like it wasn't, and then it did materialize. So yeah, that was nuts, but that was most big thing.

Rachael Barclay (00:27)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (00:34)
You know, people aren't always right.

Rachael Barclay (00:34)
Yeah, yeah,

they are not always right. That's true. But, everybody knows you. I mean, you've you are so accomplished. Everybody knows you as the former chief of police of Seattle. They know that you made national news in 2020, which we'll get into. They may they may know that you are an author. Black and blue. They may know that you worked for Microsoft.

Carmen Best (00:50)
here.

Rachael Barclay (00:56)
But maybe if they had

Brett K Moore (00:57)
last little bit. Perfect. Okay.

Rachael Barclay (00:58)
Yeah.

All right, so I want to take, let's go back before all of this, before the national news in 2020, let's go back to Tacoma where you grew up and into what did allowed look like in your household.

Carmen Best (01:13)
Yeah, well grew up in a two-parent home, probably what I would deem a lower middle class home, although we didn't know that, lots of love and care. And so, allowed for my family, which is what we consider in many ways a traditional family, they really gave us a lot of latitude in terms of what we dreamt to be and what we wanted to accomplish. But there were strict rules about...

curfew or doing your homework or ironing your clothes the night before. I we had very rules about contributing to the household and what we were allowed to do that way but that gave us lot of privileges to participate in.

Rachael Barclay (01:42)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (01:54)
extracurricular activities and that sort of a thing. So I felt like I had a lot of latitude and lot of freedom to do outside extracurricular activities, join clubs, hang out with my friends and do all those things so long as that quote unquote homework was taken care of. So I was never inhibited by my parents about any dream I ever expressed and I expressed, you know, like every kid, a hundred different thoughts about what I wanted to do and be later in life.

Rachael Barclay (02:20)
That's so important too. I think it's a good thing that you noted is that you were starting with the ability to dream as big as you would like to is so important because that's how you're starting off life, right? So 1992, you decide to become a cop. Is that correct?

Carmen Best (02:37)
Yeah, I did. And it's so funny, I applied at the police department really not knowing if I would stick around or how long I'd be there or even if it was a job for me, but I had spent time in the military.

I was used to sort of a military structure. I thought, let me try this out and let me see what it might be like. I was working at an insurance company in downtown Seattle. I just wanted a bit of a change. And they were advertising in Seattle for police officers. I was young and single, and why not? Just go for it. If it doesn't work, I'll pivot to something else. But as the story ends, I stayed there for almost 30 years. So it was a nice pivot.

Rachael Barclay (03:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (03:16)
That was it.

Rachael Barclay (03:17)
I'm curious what did you have, was it like, yes, you should do this or how did that go?

Carmen Best (03:21)
Not a lot of yes, you should

do this. I'm going to be very honest. Not a lot of that at all. It like, what are you doing?

shot or hurt and all these things, you know. But so there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm about me trying to join the police department. I hadn't even joined yet. just people just had the preconceived notions of what it was about. And I wasn't really sure myself, to be honest with you. So I thought I might be gone, you know, shortly after. I wasn't really sure, but I did want to give it a try. Right. You know, and so.

It didn't come without its challenges, but I'm so happy that I continued on.

Rachael Barclay (03:54)
Mm-hmm.

resolve to is that sort of the person that you are? You know, you're going to you decide what you're going to do and you do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Carmen Best (04:02)
just wanted to do it, right? So I

was going forward. It's like, okay, I'm letting you know this is what's going to happen. And yeah, I'm just going to move forward and let the chips fall where they may. And it was, you know, there was some challenges, but I really am glad that I did. I grew a lot. learned a lot. Same thing when I joined the military. People were like, you know, how is she going to join the military? It's not, but I did. And I enjoyed my time there immensely.

didn't want to say forever, but I did. I great appreciation for the service and for being a part of the military family.

Rachael Barclay (04:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. you, 28 years, almost three decades with law enforcement. Did you find that you were the only person like you in many of the rooms you were in? And how did you deal with that if that was the case?

Carmen Best (04:49)
Well that is true. There aren't a lot of women in general in policing. At that time around 12 % maybe of all police organizations were female.

And then certainly, the higher up in rank you go, the less women you see, and less women of color in particular that you see. So that goes without saying, so sometimes you are the only one. You have a whole shift and there's maybe two women on the shift working, particularly when I came on. But I didn't let that be a deterrent at all. I just really just went out and tried to do my job. It did make you,

Rachael Barclay (05:23)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (05:27)
some ways, you know, want to do more because you felt like you were, if you talk about the, you know, I'm going to be on the thing on the shoulders of giants, or you felt like the next generation or the next iteration won't get there or will be judged by what you do because there's just so few. And I wasn't the first generation of police women. There was a generation that came before me that really dealt with those initial women that came through. I was sort of the second tier.

Rachael Barclay (05:30)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (05:53)
But I heard all the stories about rats in their lockers and all sorts of things because the men just didn't want them there initially. So we didn't have that per se, but it was still in the early acceptance of the women and what they could do on the police force.

Rachael Barclay (06:08)
Did you have any women mentoring you at all that had gone through it before you? What kind of support did you have? Because I can't only imagine.

Carmen Best (06:16)
I absolutely did.

was all informal. We didn't have a formal mentoring process back in 1992, at that I know of. But there were, one of my supervisors was a woman, two of them actually. One had came from the state patrol and came to the Seattle Police Department when I was newer, so she was there.

could talk to me about different things. And then one of the supervisors happened to be African-American woman was my supervisor at the East Precinct. And so she ended up becoming a great mentor, really pushing me to do a good job. And we're still friends today. She served 30 years and retired as a sergeant. And it was great. She mentored me. She helped me along.

Also, Rosalyn Melendez, I'll just say her name, former US Marshal, she had been on the Seattle Police Department and she helped a lot of women, not just myself, but others. When there were issues that came up and just helped us to sort of hit the reset, you know what I mean, when we needed to. I had to understand you're not alone in this. And there were...

Rachael Barclay (07:06)
Mm-hmm.

I'm ready.

Carmen Best (07:16)
There were male officers too who were incredibly supportive as well. So let's not make it sound like it was us against them. Yeah, but yeah. So along the way, I definitely had, I 100 % believe in mentorship and hopefully at some point we'll talk about my book, but I spend a lot of time in it talking about mentors and what the value is of having mentors.

Rachael Barclay (07:35)
Yeah. Well, we your book Black and Blue. And I want to remember that specific moment or was it sort of building over time?

Carmen Best (07:42)
I think it was a slow boil that built up. There was just so much that happened. 2020, I always say 2020 hindsight as a joke, but that 2020 was quite the year for me. I mean, we started out, we had the worst mass shooting in Seattle occurred in 2020 in downtown Seattle.

Rachael Barclay (08:01)
Mm.

Carmen Best (08:03)
you know, people who were deceased, were people who were injured, lot of, you know, consternation and fear around that right down there on, you know, in the Pike area. So we started out with that. Then we had this pandemic. No one knew what it was. I remember us trying to figure it all out, thinking, well, you know, how long could it last? Maybe a month, you know, having no clue, right? We just figured, you know, we'd work through this thing and we'd be done with it pretty soon. And it lingered a lot.

Rachael Barclay (08:21)
Mmm, I'm-

Carmen Best (08:28)
and it started here in the Pacific Northwest, in Kirkland specifically, but Seattle was the first major city to deal with that. So we had that, we had the pandemic, followed by the murder of George Floyd, the civil unrest, the social reckoning. And then in Seattle, we had the Capitol Hill autonomous zone, followed behind the Capitol Hill organized protest zone, followed by a defund the policing movement.

Rachael Barclay (08:34)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (08:53)
So there was just this ongoing set of things that was unique to Seattle, although a few other places were experiencing some of this as well. And it was a lot to take on as a city, as a community member, as a police chief responsible for so many things that it felt like there should be a time to write about it at some point. And when I decided that I was going to...

leave the profession, which was a really heart-wrenching decision, but I thought it was time, after going through so much of that, to hand the reins over to somebody else with a fresh set of eyes, and not all of the tension that had been built up between myself and city council, and that was almost

Rachael Barclay (09:32)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. so I think that, you know, obviously in 2020, the whole country was watching. think you talked about this a lot. I've watched many of your interviews, but what were those final weeks really like, you know, before you walked away from it all and it wasn't just, it wasn't just you.

Carmen Best (09:52)
Right. Well, I was really thinking, I will tell you some of the key things that stood out that I will never forget that were the most interesting moving things is, you know, building a great team, how important it is. I have people in place who work for me, who were extremely loyal, not necessarily to me as a person, but to their profession, to the organization, to the city of Seattle. I don't think they ever really got the proper credit for how much they were willing to sacrifice day in and day out.

put together the plans and everything that was going to be necessary to sort of take back the precinct, for one, to do so as safely as possible. That took a behemoth amount of work to get it done, you know, because we were obviously concerned about not only the safety of all of the people within the neighborhood, but the people...

to be addressing as well as the officers that were attending. So lots of stakeholders involved and we knew the whole world was watching. And I mean that sincerely. I had relatives living in Eastern Europe and they were like, what is going on in Seattle? know? Yeah, so because of that, you know, it was pretty tense. So I was very thankful to have that, you know, that we were able to collaborate.

Rachael Barclay (10:46)
Truly.

Wow.

Carmen Best (10:59)
figure out a game plan, and most importantly to execute. Because there's a lot of good idea fairies out there. Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? Why don't you do that? But it takes really good leadership to say, here's the plan, here's what we're gonna do, and we're gonna execute. We have some contingencies, but you gotta move. And so it was really important that we get it done. And so that's what I remember most, just working together, feeling a great amount, honestly, of anxiety about

Rachael Barclay (11:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (11:25)
what's going to happen but we got it we have to do it we have to you know metaphorically speaking kick in the door and go through

Rachael Barclay (11:32)
council, and please correct my facts if they're incorrect, the council cut the office by a hundred officers, is that correct? Was it more than that? with me, right? Because it was bigger than that, right? I was wondering if you could talk to me about that a little bit.

Carmen Best (11:40)
Yes.

Yeah, well, you that's what I was saying about the personal stuff. It felt more like the council just wanted to, some of them, not all, but some of them just wanted to move me along, which I was steadfast, I was gonna stay and lead. But, you know, I also realized that they had some power that I didn't have, and they had the power to do things, to do harm. And, you know, cutting.

Rachael Barclay (11:57)
Mm.

Hmm.

Carmen Best (12:08)
You know, one, just cutting public safety, which is already struggling, was, in my view, I'll just say Carmen best opinion, was just not a good thing to do. And I kept talking about, let's look at different ways. If you want to have different deployments, if we want to re-imagining, re-imagine how we're doing things, let's have a conversation about it. But just to wholesale cut it without a plan. And I kept looking for the plan. Hey, it's 2026. I still have never seen the plan.

Rachael Barclay (12:14)
Mm-hmm.

B-

Carmen Best (12:31)
So without a plan was, it seemed reckless and irresponsible, especially for our leaders. And so I wouldn't do that. So there was a lot of discussion around that and then to cut the department in that way. And we had just spent about $1.6 million we had been granted to really look at recruiting, recruiting a diverse department that reflected the community that we're serving, bringing in women and people of color.

You know, it was great. we did that. We had record-breaking diversity hiring, 39.9%. So I usually say just about 40 % women and minorities hired that year, only to turn around. And when you know the last in and the first out, that's really how it works for most organizations, and that's union rules. And so I said, we just hired these folks. Are we going to let them all go now? You know, the impact is...

Rachael Barclay (13:21)
Is it?

Carmen Best (13:22)
It's more than just losing the officers, it's using something we've really been striving to

Rachael Barclay (13:26)
the access, how do you do what you do? Because I think everybody, I'll speak for into,

national voice on leadership. I don't think I'm the only one who shares that opinion. And you rebuilt on your own terms. And I just think that's so incredible. And I want to flip this around. If somebody just heard what you're talking about, either now from this podcast or any of the other things, reads your book, they're in an impossible position

do? And is it something special in you or is it something that can be learned?

Carmen Best (13:55)
I really think it's an innate sense of right and wrong and just an understanding what's really important. And it's not always cut and dry super easy. Do I want to keep my job? Do I want to stay in a profession that I love? Absolutely. Is that more important than moving forward with...

the organization with helping people get to the next run, with making sure the city has the right public safety mechanisms in place. So in some ways it's selfless. We've had these conversations, police chiefs around the country talk to each other. We've had these conversations like if you need the job, maybe you shouldn't take the job.

Rachael Barclay (14:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (14:36)
Because you have to know there may be a time you just might have to let it go for the betterment of everyone else or what's going wrong or to not to compromise your values. And I felt very strongly about that, very strongly about that. And in that, it's very freeing in many ways to say, hey, this is the right thing to do and I'm going to do the right thing. And I want to do two things, keep going.

Rachael Barclay (14:36)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Carmen Best (14:59)
And not

be inhibited or restricted by the thoughts that value the opinions of others. You just have to know your own currency and value it.

Rachael Barclay (15:10)
What's be, what's one piece of advice and leadership that you have for those people?

Carmen Best (15:14)
Well, a lot of people probably think that being a good leader means you're making that decision, you're 100 % sure all the time, and you've got to get it right. And often, what you're doing is you're saying there's a lot of decisions to make, which is the best? The best might only be 80%, but that's what we're going to go with, because that's what we've got. And you've got to be willing to, but I think most people know this, but you have to be willing to...

Rachael Barclay (15:29)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (15:37)
take the barbs, to speak again metaphorically, you have to very thick skin. Because you can say, it's very clear that this is in the best interest of everybody. This is the right thing to do. I guarantee you, you're going to have critics. You're going to read things about yourself that aren't true or have to. You have to have thick skin and really know what your North Star is and what you're trying to achieve and why. Because it can be daunting.

Rachael Barclay (15:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Mm.

Carmen Best (16:02)
the Shea Real, if you will, is lonely at the top. But that has lasted for all these centuries for a reason. it's at the top. It's like people keep saying that because it keeps being true. And so it can be pretty lonely at times. So you really have to, I would call one of my former mentors said, take a sanity check, quote unquote, make sure that you're doing the right things for the right reasons. Chat with people outside the profession.

Rachael Barclay (16:05)
Mm.

Yeah

Carmen Best (16:27)
chat with people who have experience with what you're doing and chat with people who don't have experience with what you're doing to really make sure that your barometer is well adjusted.

Rachael Barclay (16:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, listening, right? A lot of times people in leadership don't listen. one thing I know about you is that you do. And then I also want to be led by you? How would you handle that? It was a trick question.

Carmen Best (16:45)
Yeah, well that's pretty much everybody. Everybody wants to be their leader. Who doesn't want to be their leader?

It's like, do you want to do it yourself? Yeah, one of the things about leadership is recognizing, the word I would say is humility, that you're not going to be, and nor do you need to be, the smartest person in the room all the time.

Rachael Barclay (17:00)
Mm.

you

Carmen Best (17:05)
You know, real leadership is assembling great teams, getting the best out of, in many cases, brilliant people who are smart, who are thoughtful, who know their area of expertise better than anyone else, and allow them to do their work. It's supporting them.

Some people call it transformative leadership or authentic leadership or servant leadership. Under whatever guise it comes under, it really is allowing people to do the work that they need to do and you are setting the environment for them to have success.

And so I often would tell the cops if we're involved in something and the chief is running in to save the day, our tactics and our strategy wasn't good. You know, it's going to be the folks who have that experience going in doing the work.

Rachael Barclay (17:33)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Carmen Best (17:48)
I'm there support and the environment, make sure the budget is there, the funding is there, the equipment is there, the training is there, the leaders are there, supervisors, all the things that we need to have in place to make sure that we do exceptional at what we're charged to do. And that, you know, I'm using policing as an example, but I've done that with every area of my life.

everything, whether it's sports or this job, or you're at Microsoft, you're making sure we have the right people in place with the right talent to do the right thing and then supporting them in that.

Rachael Barclay (18:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I had one leader, one of my bosses once say to me, Michael, if I'm doing my job correctly, I'm the least important person in the room. And I think that's sort of just what you highlighted is, and what I didn't understand as a young leader either is, you know, I have something to prove and it's about me. that's just so you learn that is quite the opposite because you need people better than you. Yeah, I love that.

Carmen Best (18:26)
Yeah.

I love that too. I said humility, but I love what your former colleague had said about that.

Rachael Barclay (18:46)
Yeah, it's so

lightning round and you can pass on any of these questions if you want. But received? And second part of that,

Did you actually follow it?

Carmen Best (18:55)
Well, I've received so much good advice, but preparation is critical.

And so you never know when opportunity is going to strike and you want to, if opportunity with lack of preparation is not an opportunity. So being prepared for what it is you want to do. So preparation is really important and I tried to always follow that. So if I wanted to be the chief or the deputy chief or promote, then I studied. I got ready for it. I watched others. joined the groups. I went to the training. I made sure that my resume matched what was needed.

Rachael Barclay (19:20)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (19:26)
for the position that I really wanted to have. No different thing you would do if you decided you wanna have a family. Well, we probably better get a house and a car and a car seat, right? All the things that you have to have to make it work. There's no guarantee, but if you're not prepared, then the chances are you are gonna fail, right?

Rachael Barclay (19:28)
Mm-hmm.

Wait, wait.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, what is, on the other advice that you've ever received? And you don't need to name names, obviously.

Carmen Best (19:52)
the worst advice I've ever received.

It's any advice where people tell you to give up on something. I just find that to be not good advice. I've always wanted to keep going. yeah. Yeah, keep going, keep at it. Take another bite at the apple. Look at a different avenue. Look at a different angle. Try a different thing that's similar, or whatever that is. But giving up should be the last thing that comes

Rachael Barclay (20:02)
Mm-hmm. Keep going. Mm-hmm.

sometimes I use music is so healing, right? In so many ways. If you find yourself needing to reset, what's your go-to song or songs?

Carmen Best (20:26)
Oh my goodness. What I learned about myself is I love all kinds of music from all kinds of genres. I really do. I listen to everything from Frank Sinatra to Barbara Streisand to DMX to you name it. I just love it all. I tend to usually tend to like the women singers, women songstress if you will. And there's...

Rachael Barclay (20:39)
I love it.

Carmen Best (20:46)
So many songs that inspire me, religious music. I'm trying to think of the one that I turn on the most. There's a recent one that I like me, that I love. I think her name is China Styles. You know, that's my favorite song. Yeah,

Rachael Barclay (20:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm, yes!

Carmen Best (21:00)
not coming to me right away. But essentially, it's about, you know, I woke up in the morning, I looked at myself and I felt good about me and getting through my day and, you know, also inspire, you

Rachael Barclay (21:01)
Uh-uh.

I love that.

gets me in a better state usually.

Carmen Best (21:14)
Yeah.

Rachael Barclay (21:15)
If you could whisper one sentence to Carmen who just got appointed as chief, what would you say? So if you could take what you know now and tell yourself when that happened, what's one piece of advice you would give yourself?

Carmen Best (21:27)
What did I learn mostly?

your custom instincts.

Rachael Barclay (21:30)
Yeah, I love that.

Carmen Best (21:31)
Trust your instincts. They're there for a reason. Sometimes you second guess yourself, which is okay to be reflective. Like, am I doing this the right way? I think I told you one of my mentors said, take a sanity check. But you're thinking of something, trust your instincts. Typically they're right.

Rachael Barclay (21:33)
Mm.

Mm-hmm, I love that.

Mm-hmm.

you're allowed to want now that you know you're allowed to want now, but maybe didn't know at any point historically that you wouldn't have said out loud five, 10, 15 years ago, if anything.

Carmen Best (22:03)
You know, just me personally, feel like, you my girlfriend has said this and this might sound strange to some folks, but, you know, she says, Carmen, you she's well accomplished. She goes, you know, you don't need to try for more things. You know, you've been to the mountaintop. You were the first African American police chief in Seattle. What else do need to achieve? And I always feel like there's more. I always feel like there's more. So I, you know, am I...

My innate desire is to help people. even in law enforcement, people think it's about enforcement, but really it's a lot of helping people who have fallen through the cracks for different reasons. And I still have that fire in my belly to do that, to really help people to make a difference in society. So I guess if I was gonna make a definitive statement, it I'm going to continue to make a difference in this society.

Rachael Barclay (22:41)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (22:53)
what I want to do.

Rachael Barclay (22:54)
I love it. And you are continue to do that. You are in board. You are involved with so many boards and organizations, right? So we are honoring you as the our last giant at shoulders of giants continue.

But we have not knowing when we were talking with you, when we were going through this election process, and so on and so forth. And, and, you know, you've already you said you've already been to the mountaintop. But, you know, I think this is such an incredible thing.

to be able to last one at the...

Carmen Best (23:23)
I mean there's so many things. Okay, first I'll start with this. I'm deeply and incredibly honored to that I was selected. I mean I am truly honored by that.

And to do it when I look at all the other esteemed honorees, and there's a long list of them, I just feel even more honored to be amongst them because these are people that I have admired and met and appreciated, many of them, for a lot of years. So that was first. Second was, you know,

the closing of the Tower Club, know, you know, it's kind of bittersweet in many ways because I can't tell you how many days I spent over at the Tower Club having meetings, grabbing breakfast early, just before I, you know, because the, the...

Rachael Barclay (23:56)
Mm-hmm.

Carmen Best (24:06)
police headquarters is right across the street. I spent a lot of time over at the Tower Club, just it's never not. so opportunities

Rachael Barclay (24:08)
Right, yeah.

Right.

Carmen Best (24:15)
much. Part of the time I was on the board, part of the time I wasn't. But yeah, so there's that. And then being able to do something that gives back to the community and to young people because we're representing Rise Up and also to do it on oddly enough Emancipation Day, which is the day that the slaves are freed and somehow all of it just ties in together as this big historic moment.

Rachael Barclay (24:29)
Mm.

Carmen Best (24:36)
I am incredibly honored and thrilled to be a part of. Absolutely thrilled. And you're right, I did say I've been to the mountaintop, but this certainly is one of the high events of my life. Really it is.

Rachael Barclay (24:48)
Yeah.

Well, we're so honored to have you. can to go with them for this one and the amazing work they do?

Carmen Best (24:56)
Yeah, well, I know the CEO personally and some of the work that they've done that I've gotten to know better over the years. And it is truly incredible that...

particular at Rise Up Academy, they take kids from age two up to I think through middle school.

and they have before school and after school programs, but they really work on the educational aspect of training these young people so that they are ready, they are school and academically ready when they start elementary school. And that is so by the level of

at fourth grade. Like if they couldn't get, if they weren't keeping up by the fourth grade, their probability of being incarcerated was exponentially increased. And so it is, people don't maybe recognize that, but it is critically important, know, educating youth, getting them started on good grounding so that, you know, they are...

Rachael Barclay (25:32)
Mm.

Mm.

Carmen Best (25:50)
well adjusted and are able to learn and understand how to learn. All those things, because you're going to need those skills throughout life. And if you're behind, if you fall behind too early, as many do, it just is a hard trajectory to get out of, a downward trajectory to get out of. So it's really important. What they do there with those young people, they are four-year-olds and five-year-olds. And I've seen this for myself. They're reading. They're doing math.

Rachael Barclay (26:00)
and

Carmen Best (26:18)
They are, they're reading music and they haven't even started kindergarten yet. It is absolutely incredible and a lot of these kids are from historically marginalized communities and they have been able to really...

Rachael Barclay (26:21)
Yes.

Carmen Best (26:32)
get their education up to par. And now it's been in place for like 27 years. So it's not just a drop in the pan. These folks have been doing this for a long time. And I've met many of the people who went there who are now business people, doctors, teachers, attorneys, so much success. And they started right there at Rise Up Academy. And when you see that, how could you not want to contribute? We know how important it is.

to educate our young

Rachael Barclay (26:57)
tomorrow. But what what? Yeah, we love it. What's one thing? What do you want people to leave with those who get to attend that

Carmen Best (27:06)
that I'm just spitballing here but I'm just thinking off the top of my head. What do you want to achieve with this? One, of course, is I want to be able to tell my story and hopefully inspire some folks. I want to make sure that we raise some money for Rise Up Academy and get some long-term support for them. And I want people to walk away feeling like...

there's more I can do. It's a call to action. And many people in that room, I'm sure, already doing a lot. But it's like, not only is there more I can do, I'm going to continue on with what I'm doing. I want people to be inspired to really give, to give back to community. That is just the most important thing,

Rachael Barclay (27:41)
right? Whether that be through volunteering or donation. And what do you recommend for, you know, young people who are going to see this, who see Shoulders of Giants, but maybe they're not at the level where they they're not there yet in their career. How would you what's your recommendation there?

Carmen Best (27:53)
Right.

They can volunteer, they can help others at the school, there's so many, they can mentor. There's so many avenues that are out there for young people to help one another, to be successful. Even helping at home, helping their parents, helping their friends, seeing a friend in trouble and making sure that you're reaching out to them or to a trusted adult. Those things are so critically important.

I've seen young people do amazing and tremendous things. I really have. Because some people will say, the youth, they're not doing as much, but that's just not true. They are doing amazing and incredible things, if you just look around you. And I would encourage them to continue to do that, to continue to find ways to support, to volunteer, to give their best effort locally.

and in their own schools because that's how it starts. And then as you blossom and grow, you're able to do more when you have more, right?

Rachael Barclay (28:44)
have more amplification, number one, yours definitely being one of them. then unlock unlocking that access piece, right? You know, how did Carmen write her book? How did she do that? How can you imagine yourself in the person's shoes?

And I think that what I'd like to do is close this with what your final saying will be, which is you're allowed to fill in the blank.

Carmen Best (29:07)
achieve anything your mind can think of. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Barclay (29:11)
I love that. I love it.

Well, this has been another episode of You're Allowed featuring the wonderful Carmen Best and we'll see you next time.

Carmen Best (29:23)
Thank you so much Rachel, you're awesome.

Rachael Barclay (29:25)
You're awesome too. Okay.