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Divorce Dialogues helps people navigate divorce with dignity, clarity, and perspective. Through thoughtful conversations with experts and practitioners, the show explores the emotional, financial, legal, and relational realities of divorce, so listeners can make better decisions, communicate more effectively, and move forward with greater confidence.
Because divorce is more than a legal transaction, it’s a deeply human transition.
Katherine Miller (00:00):
Have you ever made a decision you knew wasn't in your best interest or it wasn't your best decision, but in that moment you didn't know how not to, it felt impossible not to? That's what emotions do. The goal is not to get rid of your emotions. The goal is to understand them before they make your decisions for you. Welcome to the Emotionally Savvy Divorce Series, a special series from Divorce Dialogues. I'm Katherine Miller, and together we'll explore the mindset shifts that help people navigate divorce with greater clarity, confidence, and dignity. Whether you're at the beginning of the process or finding your footing afterward, each episode builds on the last to help you make better decisions and create a stronger path forward through divorce.
(00:50):
I'm Katherine Miller and welcome back to the Emotionally Savvy Divorce Series. Over the past three episodes, we've talked about what success really looks like, why fairness isn't always the goal, and how understanding what you truly need changes every negotiation. Today, we're talking about the one thing that influences all three, your emotions, because none of those mindset shifts are possible if we're making decisions from a place of fear, anger, guilt, or resentment. One of the biggest misconceptions I hear all the time is that emotions get in the way of good decisions. I don't believe that's true. The problem is that when we don't recognize where they are and how they're influencing us, then they take control, and that is what we are talking about today. So let's get into it. Part one, the problem. We believe we have to ignore our emotions. People often tell me, "I'm trying to keep my emotions out of this," or they apologize for their emotions when they come up in our conversations.
(01:56):
And while I understand the intention there, that's not actually possible. It turns out that we make decisions in the emotional part of our brain, so trying to keep our emotions out of it isn't even a possibility, let alone not a good idea. Divorce is emotional, and it has to be because it involves the people, the relationships, and the future that matters most to us. And the goal isn't to eliminate your emotions. It's to understand what they are trying to tell you. Emotions are normal, and they are a normal reaction to the things that come up for us. So the idea that we're going to try to set those aside is not, as I said earlier, not only not possible, it's not a good idea. The emotions come up around the things that are really most important to us. And divorce hits every element of our lives, our parenting life, our money, our sense of our intimate partnership, the place that we live, our identity.
(03:00):
And of course, we have feelings and emotions that come up around these. And when you have an emotion, a reaction, and you lean into that, you have a sense of why you are having that feeling. It gives you a little bit of a trail to understanding your core values, your north star, the sense of you that is most meaningful to you. Now, it's also important that the decisions that you're making in the divorce process make sense, have rational reasons, but putting these things together is how you get to the best possible result. And essentially, and I'm oversimplifying a little, when we're making decisions in life, we make the decision we want to make, and then we analyze it rationally. And I think that makes a lot of sense to be thinking about that as the process that's going through. Why does this work? Why doesn't it not work?
(03:53):
And are the conversations that we had about interest in the last episode really help you inform your thinking about the emotions that you're having and as you analyze what it is that's going on for you? So every decision is going to have basically an emotional resonance. You're going to have an emotional feeling about it, and there's going to be a rational, practical, pragmatic implication for what that decision is and can do. So you're thinking about your financial plan and you might be thinking, "Well, I'd really like to maintain my lifestyle. I know I'll win the lottery. That's my solution." Well, that would be great if you could win the lottery, but it's probably not a great plan in terms of the likelihood of it actually happening. So what else about your lifestyle is important and why? What is it about those things, the feelings that you have around each of these things can help you sort through what's most important and why, and what's maybe less important and why?
(04:55):
You don't have to ignore your emotions. You just have to understand them. And the trouble starts when we don't realize that our emotions are driving the conversation. Part two, the trap. Reacting instead of responding. We've all done it. Sent the email, said the thing, made the decision, and later wished we'd handled it differently. We all can think later what you could have done, what you could have said, what action you could have taken and thought, "Oh, I'd only thought that." But that's the difference between reacting and responding. Making decisions from anger. Like one thing, I have a rule for myself. I don't ever hit send on a text or an email if my heart rate is elevated because that's a place where I'm in a reactive mode. Oh yeah, well, boom. Same to you. Well, that is not usually the best thing to do, particularly in a divorce negotiation.
(05:47):
I see so many clients hold up their phones and say to me, "Do you want to see the text? Here they are." No, I don't. This is a reactive conversation where the two of you are going back and forth reacting rather than responding. And it leads us to a place of negotiating from fear and from anger and from guilt. And this is where emotions are not helping us. This is why people say you should set your emotions aside and treat this like a business deal. This is the part that you don't want to have happen. Instead, what you want to do is really think about, feel about, lean into, talk about, journal about, write about why you're having those feelings, why you feel so attacked, what it is you're most trying to protect for yourself, not about the other person. Because to the extent that you are in reaction to your soon-to-be ex, you allow that person to define you.
(06:45):
And I don't think that's something you want to do. You want to define yourself. You want to define your own things that are important. You want to define your own priorities and you want to craft your own life going forward, not because the other person said something and you reacted. You do not want to negotiate from fear. You do not want to parent from guilt. And you do not want to let resentment determine your priorities. Make the decision for your future, not necessarily to relieve the discomfort you feel today, the anxiety or resentment or anger or stress you feel today. I am not saying that's comfortable. It is not. The most important thing is to focus on the future and make decisions based on the goals you are trying to reach. And if you don't know exactly what those are today, that's fine. It's totally fine.
(07:40):
You have time to make that plan, but you don't want to cut off the option to head in a new direction because of something you said or did today. Slowing down creates the opportunity to create a better outcome for your divorce. Your emotions deserve to be heard, but they should not be driving your decisions. So what do emotionally savvy people do differently? Part three, the shift. Emotional intelligence is a practice. Being emotionally savvy doesn't mean you're calm all the time. Thank goodness. It doesn't mean that because that would be really hard to do. It means that you're curious enough to pause before you act. You pause before you react and maybe name what it is that is going on for you. Notice how you're feeling and choose a path going forward and get help if you need to. Ask yourself what it is you're trying to protect.
(08:43):
And you could also ask yourself what it is the other person is trying to protect and try to do that from a hypothesis of generosity. If you were doing what they're doing, saying what they're saying, acting the way that they're acting, what would you be trying to protect? I find that's a really useful way for myself to help think through and gain some compassion and empathy for the other person. And that compassion and empathy actually allows me to do a better job negotiating for myself and my client because I really understand where the other person is coming from. And through that understanding, I can get to a better resolution for myself. Separate your feelings from the decisions. Give yourself the opportunity to evaluate the practical consequences of what it is you're doing, saying and asking for. And return to your definition of success. Does this statement, does this ask, does this action, does this text, does this move me in the direction of what I have defined as success or not?
(09:53):
And if not, don't do it. Find some other outlet for the feelings. Call a friend, talk to your therapist, write in your journal, punch your pillow, my mom used to say when I was a kid. Go for a walk or a run, walk the dog, anything to get yourself out of that negative cycle of stress, stress, stress, stress, stress that happens in our brains and revisit what's important to you and not what it is your position is. We talked about all of these things in the first three episodes and going back and listening to those might be useful if you find yourself going through something that is really difficult. Emotional intelligence begins the moment you pause long enough to ask yourself what is really happening? What's really going on here? I like to ask myself this question, which I do out loud. Katherine, what's up with that?
(10:43):
And then I answer myself so I can get a better sense of what is actually going on for me. Part four, a real life example. I remember years ago I had this mediation and it was a very, very high conflict mediation. And the people really did want to come to a resolution, but they felt so misunderstood by the other. And the wife was very quiet and demure in the session. She sat on the couch, she listened a lot, but outside of the session, she pretty much did what she wanted. She would text the husband from the airport saying, "I'm traveling for the next two weeks, so you're on duty," not having given him any heads up ahead of time. But the husband in the sessions was really loud and he would get up and he would walk around and he would be really intimidating in the sessions.
(11:33):
And it was very hard for her or for me, frankly, to get a word in edgewise. And I though to myself, "You know what? This is never going to work." And I got up and I stood by the door and I said, "You know what? I don't think this is going to work and I think he should go. Let me just tell you, this is not something I have ever done, ever did before or ever done since, but I just thought there's no way I can interrupt the dynamic in the room other than by ending it or at least saying in some very, very deliberate way, this is not working." And so the husband, let's call him Joe, that wasn't his name, but let's say Joe looks at me and he's like, "What? You're kicking us out?" And I was like, "Yeah, because there's no room here, Joe, for anyone else to talk.
(12:21):
You are talking so much and not allowing anybody else's..." Let's say his wife's name was Mary. "You're not allowing Mary's perspective or my perspective into the room, and I don't think it's working. "He realized in that moment what he was doing, acting on his feelings. He's acting on his sense of hurt and betrayal and upset that the marriage was over and how scary that was for him and for himself and the way he was thinking about his kids. You could see it on his face. His whole face just shifted. And he realized he needed to be able to communicate from a different place. And he said," Please come back and sit down. "And I did. And he sat down and we worked it out. He could actually shift from speaking from this place of anger and hurt to a place of speaking from need and practicality to a resolution.
(13:13):
And actually, maybe six months after they were done, I got on the train to come back to my Westchester office from New York City and I was there early. I had some food and I got on a fairly empty car and I walked down the aisle and there he was sitting there. And I was like," Oh no. "Because this was the riskiest move I'd ever made in mediation. I was really worried about it. And I sat down in my chair and he got up and he walked down the aisle of the train and he said," Katherine, I just wanted to thank you because you really helped us. "And I give this example, not to say how great I am, but just to say that that shift was really important to him. And he recognized in the moment that it happened and even six months later, how important it was to reaching a resolution that really worked for him and for her.
(14:07):
If you ask me what I've learned after all these years, it's this. Emotions aren't obstacles to good decisions, they're information. And when we learn to recognize them without letting them take over, we make choices that reflect our values instead of our impulses. The goal was never to become less emotional. The goal was always to become more intentional. That's what an emotionally savvy divorce really looks like. Before we end today, I'd like to leave you with today's reframe. You don't need to stop feeling. You need to understand what your feelings are telling you before you decide what to do next. Take a few minutes and ask yourself, one, what emotion am I feeling right now? Or maybe it's more than one. Two, what is that emotion trying to protect? And three, what would my future self want me to do next? Write down your answers and then before your next difficult conversation, ask yourself, am I reacting or responding?
(15:12):
The pause between emotion and action is where your best decisions are made.
(15:21):
Thank you for joining me for the Emotionally Savvy Divorce Series. We've explored what it means to redefine success and move beyond the pursuit of fairness, uncover interests beneath our positions, and better understand the role our emotions play in the decisions we make. My hope is that this series has given you a new way to think about divorce, not simply as a legal process, but as a deeply human transition. Because when we change the way we think, we change the choices we make and better choices create better outcomes for ourselves, our families, and the life we're building on the other side. If there's one though I'd like to leave you with, it's this. An emotionally savvy divorce isn't about getting everything you want. It's about becoming the person you want to be on the other side of it. Thank you for spending this time with me.
(16:14):
I wish you clarity, courage, and compassion as you move forward. And remember, the goal isn't simply to get through divorce, it's to create a stronger path forward and a better life in the future. If this conversation was helpful, share it with someone who might need it. And if you're navigating divorce yourself, you'll find more resources and episodes at miller-law.com. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.