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This Jewish Inspiration Podcast is dedicated to learning, understanding and enhancing our relationship with Hashem by working on improving our G-d given soul traits and aspiring to reflect His holy name each and every day. The goal is for each listener to hear something inspirational with each episode that will enhance their life.
00:01 - Intro (Announcement)
From the Torch Studio in Houston, texas, featuring leaders and personalities from Jewish communities around the globe. This is the Sunday Special Edition of the Jewish Inspiration Podcast with Rabbi Ari Wolbe.
00:23 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
All right, welcome everybody. Welcome to the Sunday special of the Jewish Inspiration Podcast. My name is Rabbi Ari Wolbe and I have the tremendous privilege of sitting here with such a dynamic family, the beautiful Gross family, rabbi Stephen Gross, lily Gross and Simon Gross. So, guys, welcome.
00:46 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
00:49 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
It is such a beautiful family. If you guys can be here in the studio with me, you'd understand my excitement and my joy. One of the things that we like to do in our Jewish Inspiration Podcast is be inspired, and we want to be inspired by all of you, and every person has their journey. Every person has their special, unique way of connecting with the Almighty, and to see a family that's so unique, dynamic, eclectic, diverse is really special. So I wanted to start with Rabbi Gross. If you can just share with us, give us some of your background, where you're from and where you are today.
01:33 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I grew up in San Diego, born in Detroit and made my way to Houston 30 years ago to start my career as a rabbi. I started at Congregation Beth Israel and now I'm at Houston Congregation for Reform Judaism. So it's been a beautiful journey here in Houston and through those years I became connected to Torch in a number of ways. First with Rabbi Lipsky, studied with him quite a bit, and now I've had the joy of studying with you and looking forward to some more.
02:09 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Beautiful Lily, tell us about yourself.
02:13 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Yeah, a little bit about my Jewish journey. Is that, I think? Where were you?
02:17 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
born.
02:18 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Born and raised in Houston, texas right here with Finally someone.
02:22
Right here with, finally, someone. So, yeah, I grew up here in Houston and so much of my roots are here, so much of how I am, who I am, is because of these streets. I've been visiting in town and feeling so grateful for getting to drive around and know where I'm going. I live in LA now and I never know where I am. I'm going, I live in LA now and I never know where I am, and I think that something I'd like to share about my Jewish journey is that I think I've always felt deeply connected to my Jewish identity, and what I love so much about Judaism is that there are so many ways to find connection, whether it be through the beauty of Shabbat or the beauty of communal singing, or the beauty of sitting around a table with your family. We can find Jewish spark in so many things, and so I think throughout my life I've collected a lot of gems from many different rabbis and inspiration, but it all starts here with my dad, so it feels special to be here all together.
03:32 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
That's awesome. And what do you currently do?
03:34 - Lily Gross (Guest)
I am currently a student at the Ziegler School of Rabbinic Studies in LA.
03:39 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
That's incredible. And Simon tell us about yourself Incredible.
03:44 - Simon Gross (Guest)
And Simon, tell us about yourself. I'm also from Houston, Texas, born and raised. I go currently to the University of Texas at Austin with Rabbi Trapp. I started getting more involved about a year and a half ago and I would say I'm part-time at the university and part-time a yeshiva or zemeach in a tisro.
04:07 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
That's beautiful, so one of the unique parts of your family. First, I just want to say that Thanksgiving I was the night before Thanksgiving we were hosting a barbecue for one of the functions and one of the institutions they have at Bike-A-Thon. So those of you who are cyclists and like to cycle for insane lengths of 120 miles and things like that. So the Masifta of Houston, which is the boys' high school of Houston, has a bike-a-thon, and my wife and I have been privileged to have a son in the Masifta and the boys' high school for the last four years and this year we don't have any children there. My wife felt bad that she's like ah, next year I'm not gonna have any kids. And they're like yeah, next year you're not gonna. We've been hosting the kickoff event for this bike-a-thon every year for four years and they're like okay, so next year we're gonna have to find someplace else. She's like no, just because I don't have a child in the yeshiva at this specific time doesn't we're going to have to find someplace else. She's like no, just because I don't have a child in the yeshiva at this specific time doesn't mean we're not going to host it. We're going to host it anyway.
05:09
Either way, wednesday was the barbecue and I went to HEB to just get the last few things and that place was a madhouse. It was a madhouse. I told my wife what's going on Wednesday afternoon. She's like tomorrow's Thanksgiving, like this, reminds me of Erev Shabbos. It reminds me right before Shabbos in Jerusalem or in New York, one of the big you know Jewish cities, where it's just total pandemonium and chaos of like everyone like ripping things off the shelves last minute and running to. But isn't that a beautiful thing that we have Thanksgiving every Shabbos? Every Shabbos we get to sit with our family. Every Shabbos we get to sing with them. You know, we get to talk and we get to communicate. I think it's one of the most beautiful things in our Jewish I don't call it religion relationship with Hashem that Hashem gave us this gift of Shabbos, that we can just sit together and enjoy. I think it's such an amazing thing, it is so beautiful. Do you know you have an amazing voice for podcasts.
06:12 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
That rich yeah deep.
06:14 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Baritone.
06:15 - Simon Gross (Guest)
Baritone.
06:17 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
All right. So I want to talk about some interesting things here that you know. You're a Reform rabbi I just want to introduce. This whole idea is that I don't believe in Reform Judaism, I don't believe in Orthodox Judaism, I don't believe in Conservative Judaism or Reconstructionist or any of the other things. I really think they're all nonsense really. Now, why am I saying this? Because I firmly believe that there are two types of Jews. There's growing Jews and stagnant Jews, and I encourage every person and people come here all the time. I have people coming into Torch class. They're like oh Rabbi, I'm Reform. I'm like there's no such thing. Are you a growing Jew or a stagnant Jew? That's it that matters. I think in the Almighty's world, those are the only two functions that really matter. God wants all of us to be growing and aspiring to connect on a higher level than we started. If today we're better than we were yesterday, I don't think the Almighty really cares where you pay your membership dues.
07:16 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Right, absolutely, and that's one of the things that I fell in love with, especially with studying with you. But even when studying with Rabbi Lipsky too, he had a slightly different terminology, but it just was so rich, and you've taught at our congregation as well as other of the rabbis of Torch and has enriched us tremendously. I'll share one really beautiful thing that I learned from you when I was studying Musar a few years ago that I've never forgotten and I never, never, stopped doing it. We were studying I don't even remember the Musar Midah, but from it I learned that you should always escort somebody to the door. You should never just say goodbye and not escort them to the door. Never forgot that, never stopped doing it. It's stagnant or growing, growing.
08:11 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
You know and I've shared, I sat with Lily and Simon Friday morning, was it Feels like it was a year?
08:16 - Lily Gross (Guest)
and a half ago, thanksgiving morning. Thanksgiving morning what a great way to start the day.
08:19 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
And I shared some of the stories of people who you know, who have been regular participants at Torch, and people would ask them okay, you've been learning with Torch for so many years. What has changed in your life? You've been learning and learning and learning, but has anything actually been implemented? And I would say I don't have a goal for any one of our students to be like me. I want them to be like themselves. Be yourself in the greatest version the Almighty envisioned for you. Don't try to please your neighbor, your friend, your parents, your siblings, just for yourself. Take yourself to the greatest level you can be, and you know that's to me.
08:59
My passion is obviously my own personal growth, but hopefully taking a community along on that journey, and I feel like wherever I struggle Nebuch, sadly my students need to struggle with me. Right now I'm in the middle of a whole series on prayer and that means that my students are going to be having classes on prayer for the next year because they're coming along on my journey. It's not like I'm here at the top of the mountain and I'm going to help all of you peasants get up. No, god forbid, I am struggling to get up to the top of the mountain. I'm trying to get all of my people with me to come up the mountain with me, and that's the responsibility that I feel. So, having given that introduction, rabbi, you are a rabbi at a prominent reformed congregation here in Houston. Small and mighty.
09:48 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Small and mighty Houston congregation for reformed Judaism. We like to say long name, nice people. The nicest, the nicest people.
09:57 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
I remember Zahava coming and doing the challah bake there.
09:59 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
The challah bake we got to get her back.
10:02 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Definitely. And Lily you're a student at the Ziegler Institute, which is a conservative yeshiva, and you are a self-declared Orthodox yeshiva student. So this is amazing, because I've never met a family that's so unique. It's like and there's two other brothers.
10:22
Oh, I'm looking forward to meeting them. We've got to get a bigger table here. So how do you? First is Rabbi, if I can just tell you, I am so impressed and I told this to your son, I told this to your daughter. You see, a lot of people talk the talk of acceptance, and you know you have to accept other people's. You live it. It's such an amazing thing. I want to compliment you on this, and they all agreed with me when I said that, yeah, that really it's such an amazing thing. Take a victory lap and recognize that your children feel comfortable sharing with you their aspirations, their growth. How do you do this? Like you know, it's like most parents, I want my child to be exactly like me. You know, it's like I want my child to be, and they're like finding their own way to express their relationship with the Almighty, and I think that that's so unique.
11:17 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I, for my own personal experience with faith, just love faith any way we can connect to God. I mean it doesn't even. But for Jewish faith it's Torah. But I also appreciate other faith traditions and in so embracing that for my own inner self, that for my own inner self, watching my own children embrace faith in their own way is so fulfilling right. The V'shinan Tam Levanecha is what I've tried to live by in our home and modeled it in every way that we could, and each one has embraced it in slightly different ways, in some very different ways, but it's been lived and realized and that's so sacred.
12:18 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
It's so special, lily, what do you say?
12:22 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Yeah, dad, I'm very grateful for um this space that you created for spirit in our life and God in our life and ritual in our life, um, and it's been really great to have the ability to explore that on my own and find it in my own ways and to feel um honored in doing that and to feel accepted.
12:53 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
And accepted and honored. Yeah, simon go.
12:55 - Simon Gross (Guest)
Simon says People always ask. They always ask if I give a reformed rabbi, what do you mean? What's it like at home? I think they're always expecting the typical. A lot of Balchuvas have a lot of problems With the relationships of their parents, hard to kosher all these things. But I think it's the other way around that you know my father is is somebody who cares about a sham and cares about my growth and Somebody who wants to make sure that I feel comfortable being myself. So I always tell people no, no, it's not that way. It's actually the exact opposite way. I'm very lucky to have very supportive parents who, through many accommodations, are trying very hard and succeeding to make sure that I feel comfortable in the home and around them and that I want to come home and I do when I have the time, I do come home.
13:42 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I'll just share one little thing. There's a saying that the student becomes the teacher, and so in this case they're not students, they're children. But now that they've embraced the faith in different ways, becky and I are adjusting and learning and trying and growing. Also, the home is taking a new spiritual shape, which is really very meaningful.
14:06 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
You see, so many times. There's a book actually that came out. It was what Do you Mean? My Kitchen Isn't Kosher and it's written by someone who became religious later in life. And then they come back to their mom for Thanksgiving or some holiday and they say, mom, I kind of have to make other arrangements for food and look, what do you mean? I'm not kosher enough for you. And it's like, well, you know, it's very delicate and it's very. It's something you have to be so careful, so sensitive. I always tell students your responsibility of the Big Ten, the Ten Commandments, is honor your father and mother. And just because they may believe differently or act differently or observe differently doesn't mean that you aren't obligated by the Fifth Commandment of the Ten Commandments to honor your father and mother and to do it in the most sensitive and thoughtful way to ensure that you're not offending, you're not being hurtful, and I think that that you know. Yeah, everyone wants to be righteous and everyone wants to do the right thing but, there's a way to do things.
15:19
So I think you know it's such a beautiful thing. I feel like I'm among the great people of Houston here, so I want to first start with some definitions. So, Rabbi, can you educate us? What is the, what are the principles of reformed Judaism? Oh boy, how much time do we have?
15:40 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Well, I had a kind of I think informed choice is at the core piece. Now that doesn't really mean anything because every branch of Judaism is informed choice, but to the extent that halakha is the way I've heard it and it is so oversimplified. But halakha speaks to and directs our path, but it's not the only path. It kind of has a veto. It doesn't have a veto, it has a vote in the decision making of an informed, reformed Jew, in the decision-making of an informed, reformed Jew. So that's kind of at the core of how at least we try to inform and get people to understand the laws and the teachings and the customs of the faith and encourage people to embrace them in every way that's meaningful to them and to us. But sometimes it's just a little bit Like drive to shul to get to shul, or if you want to have a little Shabbos at home and it just involves lighting candles and having the dinner with the family, but then the kids go off and do something else. All of it, okay, keep the ember a lot amber alive. I love that very much so that's look again it's this growing
17:17 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
it's the step that counts. Every person needs to take their step and I think, that. That's, that's. Uh, I'm not endorsing any right but, but.
17:26 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
But using your, your vocabulary. If we can encourage people not to be stagnant, that's especially in nothingness.
17:35 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Keep them keep. I remember you know we in 2009 I got a a very interesting phone call from a member of one of the conservative congregations. She said is this Rabbi Wolbe? I said yes. She says hi, you don't know me, but I run the adult education for my congregation. This is in Brish Shalom and I would like I heard that you're a grandson of the famous Musser master, rabbi Shlomo Walby. I would like for you to come and teach a three-week introductory Musser course for our adult education. I said, sure, let me think about it. Of course I had to call my rabbi and say like I don't know what to do. I've never walked into a conservative congregation before. What am I allowed to do? Not only, this is to share Torah with the Jewish people. You have to do everything you can do Go in and teach Torah. Of course you got to go do it, okay, great. So I did so and it was standing room. Only, it was incredible. It was a packed house. And then, after three weeks, they said you know, we really have never had such an experience of so many people being interested in learning Torah. Can you continue? This is November Till the end of the year, till June. I said sure.
18:48
Okay, by the time the end of June came, I was thinking like you know what, if I was already here, let me reach out to some of my reform congregations in town and see maybe they'd be interested. And then we you know, we went to the reform congregation Beth El in Missouri City and from there it snowballed and we were then in 19 congregations across the city and it was really incredible. It was an amazing experience to see so many people engaged in Jewish learning. My biggest challenge I had was that I was the only education they were getting, and that was concerning because they should be getting a lot of education because, like you said, informed right and informed. They can't be informed if they don't know. So how do we address that need for our members in our congregations so that they have the ability to be more informed in their Judaism? Because the number one question I get is how come nobody ever told me that? How come nobody ever told me that and it's like I get this almost on a daily basis how come nobody told me this? And that's like I feel like it's an obligation on each and every one of us. Yeah, we got to go out there and teach this, but I remember we had.
20:07
I was once at one of the congregations. They were unhappy that we were there. Oh well, you heard that you're Orthodox, why are you even here? So they called us in for a meeting. I'm not going to say which congregation this was, but it was one of the 19. So go figure it out.
20:22
And the president, the, the rabbi, they're all sitting there and I walk in and they're like if they would have had machine guns, they would have been shooting them at me. They were so mad, like like. You're like, what are you trying to do? You're trying to proselytize our people. So the, the president at the time, uh, he said to me, he says I'm an atheist. What do you have to offer for me? I don't believe in the Torah, I don't believe in God, I don't believe in anything, but he's president, but he's president.
20:49
So I said well, we all want to know how to be a better husband and a better wife and a better father and a better mother. That's what we can share and that's what I want. That's the only thing I want. I'm not here to tell you. You have your rabbi in the congregation, who's a very learned man, I'm sure, who can tell you everything you want to know about. You know if to have a mechitza or not to have a mechitza, if to cover you here or not to cover you here, if to do this or to do that.
21:24
I want to talk about how to be a better person inside, and that's my only. That has always been my focus is let's go and share the things. The common ground that we all agree I would say that 90, I hope people listening to this don't think that I'm saying heresy, but I think about 90 or 95% of Judaism we all agree on. There are many points that we don't agree on between the different movements, but let's talk about the parts that we do and I think we'll be able to overcome the other parts that we don't and hopefully be engaged. So, lily, conservative movement what are the principles there? We heard informed. Okay, that's…. What are the principles there? We heard informed.
22:04 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Okay, that's. I just want to start by saying I do not represent the entire conservative movement. I represent me myself, and I Segal Institute.
22:12 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
do not listen.
22:15 - Lily Gross (Guest)
But I think actually, what the conservative movement really tries to do is be a big umbrella, and that's at the benefit and the deficit for the movement.
22:25
Right, it's a big umbrella in terms of how to approach, how to be Jewish. Right, I like to say that the conservative movement is halachically inclined, first and foremost. So what does the text say about how to be on the path? And then, through Chuvot, through looking at responsive from throughout time, looking at many rabbis throughout history and space and time, really try to dissect, like okay, well, what is it that we can allow to answer certain specific things? So I actually think that it's really difficult in the conservative movement to say what does it look like to be a conservative Jew, because it looks kind of different for a lot of different people, depending on what they accept as a response to a law and what they don't. So I think halachically inclined is like, really, what I would pinpoint as the conservative movement is what does the text say? And then let's evaluate how that fits into the here and the now and the practice.
23:34 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Okay, beautiful, so halachically inclined, so we have informed. Halachically inclined says what is your experience been with being in?
23:54 - Simon Gross (Guest)
yeshiva and seeing the, the Torah observant or the Orthodox way of so, I would say I don't know. If you can ask me the principles, I would just say the principles of of Torah Judaism, like we were saying, is that there's one God. There's no other God, hashem isn't everything, that Hashem has the power to give good and bad, reward and punishment, and that the Torah is divine. And my experience in this Torah world is everybody trying as hard as they can to connect to Hashem. Good times, bad times. I go to college in Austin when I'm not in Yerushalayim and you see kids who never heard anything before in their entire life and some of the strange things I've seen people do that try to connect A group of kids we have.
24:49
Our biggest game of the entire year was on Yom Kippur. A couple of kids fasted two days before to try and make up for the fasted that they weren't going to be able to keep and my rabbi called somebody's father in the community and was telling him about this interesting thing, and the other rabbi responded. He said it's interesting that you say that they fast on this particular day because this day is called. You know, there's a special fast day called the Fast of Tzaddikim. The fast didn't actually really count for a Yom Kippur fast, but at the same time, for whatever reason, that was the day that they picked to make up their fast. And then you go all the way to the other end of the spectrum yeshiva guys who came from the middle of nowhere to come and learn Torah all day long. For me, this side of the world has just been people changing everything to bring themselves closer to a relationship with Hashem. I think it's really beautiful.
25:56 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
It's interesting. You say that story because my mother-in-law had a partner in Torah that she would learn with, and Partners in Torah is an amazing organization. For those of you listeners out there, go to partnersintorahorg. I'm a little prejudiced. My father-in-law started the organization and runs it. But what they do is they put someone who is in the process of learning they're being introduced to Judaism and they put someone who is a little bit more tenured in their knowledge of Judaism and they put someone who's a little bit more tenured in their knowledge of Judaism and they partner them up a mentor and student together. And they can be of all ages. I think their oldest student is in their 90s and their youngest mentor is 18. It's like at all ages, whatever you know, you know Aleph, teach Aleph. You know Bayes, teach Bayes, et cetera, et cetera.
26:45
So my mother-in-law had a study partner and the partner had very, very, very limited knowledge of Judaism. And it was right before Pesach time and my mother-in-law realized that she's going to have to be cleaning the house for Pesach and it's a lot on a Jewish mother, on a Jewish household, you know getting ready for Pesach. So she tells her partner, you know, I just realized that it's getting close to Pesach. We're not going to be able to learn for the next couple of weeks till after Pesach. So you know, I just want to. She says, you know, tell me a little bit about Pesach. What is this holiday I've heard of the Pesach S understand is that we don't eat bread. We don't eat bread. And she says, okay, after Pesach. They finally get back together a week or so after Pesach and they start their learning again. And she tells my mother-in-law. She says, honey, you won't believe it, but I picked up my children from school and we went to pick up McDonald's and I'll tell you. I scraped off every last piece of bread from their cheeseburger, every single last piece of bread, because it was Pesach and on Pesach you don't eat bread. You told me they don't eat bread and I'm telling you that up in heaven, the Almighty smiled. How precious are my children, how precious are my children? How precious are my children that the little they know they observe with so much love, with so much dedication, with so much beauty, so much devotion. It's such an incredible thing.
28:14
And to hear this, what you're saying about these college students who are worried, what are we going to do? We're not going to be able to fast on Yom Kippur, because that's the big UT game it's going to be on Yom Kippur, we're going to fast. To think of that is just absolute. Now you'll have people who'll say, well, that's a Shanda, they should be fasting on Yom Kippur. You know what I prefer, looking the way.
28:33
You know, the Mishnah tells us Ve'ameich kulam tzaddikim. Your nation, the nation of the Jewish people, are all righteous. We're all righteous. We all have a spark within us which is so divine and so holy and so pure. It just is. I mean, I know so many people that if you just told them the little bit of Shabbos, the little bit of, they'll do it. Just tell me what. And I'm terrified to tell people because they might not be ready for it. You know you don't jump 100, you know those dash that the people jump. It takes a lot of practice to get, to be able to. You don't jump on a ladder either. You know the ladder of growth we're going to see in this week's Torah portion is coming week. Yaakov has a dream and he has the ladder of the angels ascending and descending. They take a step, one at a time. It's very important to take a step-by-step approach to growth, but what I want to just unravel here is some of the challenges that perhaps each and every one of the movements have.
29:41
Okay, now we'll start with the Orthodox, because the Orthodox have a big issue in my opinion. Now I'm Torah observant. Some people call me Orthodox. I don't like the title. I don't like the title because I think it's very limiting. I think and we've mentioned this in our conversation previously I don't believe in any of these titles either, because every person again is Ve'amech Kulam Tzaddikim, they. I don't believe in any of these titles either, because every person again is the Amir Kulam Tzaddik and they're all righteous. We got to bring out that righteousness sometimes, and it's from all sides.
30:20
The issue I have and again, please, for those of you from people grows up in a religious community, what has changed from when they went to grade school, when they were bar mitzvah and started putting on tefillin? And I can tell you about myself I put on tefillin baruch Hashem every single day of my life, aside for Shabbos and Yom Tov, every single day. And when I was about 17 or 18 years old, I felt like I was a puppet. I'm doing this every day and I have no idea what in the world I'm doing, I know I'm doing it, I know it says it in the Torah to do it, but I don't know why I'm doing it. No one ever taught me why I'm doing this.
31:01
We learned the laws, but we didn't learn the reasons. We didn't learn the meaning, the connection, and I said, okay, I have to start spending time every day while I'm in yeshiva investing in learning the whys. And that changed my life. It changed my life because now I wasn't just keeping Shabbos because that's the way I grew up. I was keeping Shabbos because this is my life, this is my passion, this is my joy, this is my delight, because it's my Shabbos, and I feel that that sometimes is a big challenge in the religious community is that the I'm not saying puppetry God forbid doing the will of Hashem those who are observing Shabbos. But perhaps there's not enough focus on the why, on the meaning, on the connection to it.
31:54 - Simon Gross (Guest)
So I actually just got exposed to this question that you're asking right now with you this Shabbos. We were just having a conversation about it because I'm privileged to be in a place where every single thing you do is a choice. If I don't wrap Tefillin on Wednesday, nobody knows. I'm the only. Well, obviously, hashem knows, but there's no social pressure In fact, it's the opposite there's anti-social pressure to do mitzvahs, and on the other side of the world, at Shari Yashiv also in New York, and or Semeach, you're surrounded by the most amazing light possible. You have every feeling inside of you. Oh, I'm so excited to wake up today and do Tefillin and I think it's amazing.
32:47
Obviously, I'm a part of this movement of people that are are are wanting more, that are doing more and, obviously, with organizations like torch, lots of people that are learning more and learning the why, um, and I couldn't tell you what the experience of somebody who grew up doing it was like.
33:00
All I can say is I'm very happy that I got to choose and hopefully the listeners on the podcast take one second before they put the tefillin on, or two seconds before they put the tzitzit on, just to acknowledge the fact that it's not just something that you're doing. It's something that you're choosing to do and that you should be happy that you have hands that can pick the tzitzit up and that you have an arm to put the tefillin on and you have legs that can walk you to that shul and your eyes work well enough that you can even see the words that you're about to daven, because that's not a given today. Hashem allowed you to do that and you are choosing to do those mitzvahs so that's, you know, one of the things that may, yeah, go ahead I?
33:40 - Lily Gross (Guest)
I something that was coming to my mind, simon, as as you were talking so beautifully, is, sometimes, in order to do tshuva, things have to be quite broken for us to recognize the brokenness. And so you have to hit a point of realizing right, like, oh, I am not fulfilling this in the way that I can be to realize that things could be different. Fulfillingness in the way that I can be to realize that things could be different so I wonder if that's part of it too is like do people know that something's missing until they are seeking it?
34:12 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Many times. Well, many times, we don't know what we're missing till we wake up to it one day. You know, it's an amazing thing. One of the common questions I get in my classes is that, rabbi, it's not fair. See, you grew up with kosher. And I'll tell you it really is an amazing thing, because when I come up to the heavenly tribunal, they're going to say Walby, what did you do with your life? You rotten nothing, nobody, you did nothing with your life. And I'm going to be like what are you talking about? Do you know how many times I passed by a McDonald's and I didn't buy a McDonald's, like literally my entire life? I passed by Burger King and I never bought a Burger King. And what are they going to tell me?
34:51
Well, that was never a challenge for you, it was never a challenge for you, so you're not going to get any reward for it. Right, but why is? And my students ask me. They say you grew up with kosher, you grew up with Shabbos, you grew up with all of these things. So for you it's easy. For me, I grew up with none of this. I grew up in Kansas, I grew up in here and there and I never grew up with any of it. For me it's very difficult. And I said to them it's just the opposite. I said for you it's fresh, it's beautiful.
35:24
My son is now 11 years old, one of my sons, and he has said the Shema probably 4,000 times. What is the likelihood that by the time he turns 13 and he's obligated to recite the Shema by biblical command, to recite the Shema that he's even going to know what he's saying? What are you saying? I tell people, I tell my students. I say you know, the first time someone says I love you to their spouse. It's so meaningful, it's so memorable. They remember where they were, when they were exactly. They prepared the words. They're going to say that first I love you. Ten years later they're like okay, honey, I love you One second. That was AT&T who am I saying that?
36:11
to. You don't even know what you're saying. It's like become so routine and that's a big problem. It's a problem because it's become so habitual, it's become so regular and that's the challenge. On the other side, of someone who grew up religious, someone who grew up in a Torah observant lifestyle keeping Shabbos, it's a regular thing, it's what we do. We don't ask, we're not going to ask questions about Shabbos. We're not questioning the observance of it, but what's the deeper meaning behind it?
36:41
You know, one of the reasons I have this prayer focus is because I feel like you know, I'm now 46, almost 47 years old and I've been praying since I was three years old in yeshiva and saying the same words every single day. And I feel like I'm just saying it out of habit and motion. I don't connect with the words because I don't even know what I'm saying. And that's why I said dinner. I got to stop and focus and learn each and every section of prayer. So we did Mauda'ani and we did Rish Hashanah, we did, you know, the Asher Yatzer, all the blessings, the Brecha Satorah. Now we're, I think, 20 or 30 episodes in and just slowly getting through the entire prayer so that I can learn it for myself. I happen to share it with the world, but it's my own personal journey and for me, hopefully transformative and hopefully for the listeners as well. That's the prayer podcast, but just a little plug there. But that's the challenge.
37:46
But now there's one other thing that I want to bring up as I think is a major, major problem with the Torah observant community, and that is and obviously we have to judge every person favorably and every group of people favorably but I feel that there would not be a reform movement, there would not be a conservative movement, if the Torah observant community did their job. What do I mean? What I mean is is that we're all the children of Abraham, isaac and Jacob. The Torah doesn't belong to the religious. The Torah belongs to every single Jew. The Torah says it's an inheritance for every Jew. It doesn't belong to me, it belongs to everyone, it's their Torah. So why do people not know it? Why have we not been there to answer people's questions, so that people don't have to rewrite, create another movement, create another, have to rewrite, create another movement, create another? Why do people need? Why would they ever get to a point? If their questions were answered, if they were lovingly embraced, they would never need to create a reform movement in 1807. They would never need to.
39:04
And I understand there was the Haskalah and I understand there's, but why wasn't the religious community? And I feel this as a personal responsibility, that, as a Torah observant Jew, my job is to be there as a representative to share Hashem's Torah. That's it, that's my job. Because perhaps it wasn't shared 40, 50, 60, 100, 200 years ago way it could be, in a way that was lovingly. And I can tell you from my own personal experience.
39:35
I learned in yeshivas that were very, very tough and very challenging. It's not the way it is today in yeshivas, but I can understand how someone just left the path and said you know what I'm done with this? How are you going to deal with God? Okay, so we'll start something new. We'll reform it. You understand, we should never be in a situation where a child or an adult feels so distanced from their own Torah that they have to create something new, and that, I feel, is a big problem Today. How many people do you have going out from yeshivas who the guys learn? They're so scholarly, they know so much Torah, why aren't they going out and sharing it with the world? I think that's an indictment. You agree, simon? Yeah, you have a job at Torch. When you're done with yeshiva, you have a job at Torch.
40:38 - Simon Gross (Guest)
I listened to the podcast about B'tachon by Michael Satve every day 10 minutes. He's just in your ear. You got it. It's an intense guy. It, you got it. It's an intense guy. It's called Daily Bitaachon, definitely worth listening to. Definitely changed my life. So there's a little bit not to pull listeners away from Torch Podcasts, obviously, but just a little bit of a plug there. And one of the things he says a lot is a lot of people could write an entire Sefer, every single Mepharshim on every single about Bitaachon. I can pull from the Rishonim and I can from the Torah. They could write a whole sefer. He said that doesn't mean you have B'tachon. You can know everything in the entire world and still really know nothing. Obviously, I wasn't alive in 1807. I don't know what my grandparents were up to back then, but what I can tell you is is that if you don't want something, you're never going to have it. And um, I think.
41:31 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
But how can someone want something if they don't know it?
41:33 - Simon Gross (Guest)
exists. You have to want to know that it something exists. You have to, you have to want to have a connection, and that was, I think that's what we're talking about. This, uh, the shabbos also is what's the ichor? What's the ichor of being a jew? What's the main thing about being a jew is to want to have a relationship with a kurdish baruch and to have people who go and say what does that mean? I don't even know what that means. Like that's somewhere along the way, we forgot to smile, we forgot to dance, it became too much about writing books and I mean, I don't know, I wasn't there, I couldn't tell you. But, um, maybe, maybe, maybe there wasn't so much wanting, maybe there was more, I don't know.
42:13 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Right, and also something that's coming to me to answer your question is what if the rule book doesn't acknowledge you as you are? You know, I lived in the Orthodox world for about two years with Olami and the Jewish experience in Denver Shout out to Rabbi Danny Wolf and Rebbetzin Sarah Wolf, who changed my life forever and I didn't feel the place for myself in the way that I authentically feel inclined to be me, that I authentically feel inclined to be me. And so, you know, as a woman, I only represent that part of the spectrum of what it means to be a human. But I think that in answering your question, why does that happen? You know, I think there's a lot of people that don't always feel that they see themselves written in the text. Not that it's not there, but I think maybe that's part of it and maybe we need to and that's why I'm here and studying in the way that I am is how do we look to the text to find the answers to the questions for people who don't inherently see themselves written?
43:23 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
You know, the Gaon of Vilna says that every person's name is in the Torah. Because it's your Torah, so you have to have your name in it, right? You buy a book, you write your name, stephen Gross. You write your name in it so that people know it's your book, the Torah. If it's your book, your name should be in it. So my father was once with one of his friends who told him this and he says where's my name? He says, oh, that's easy. He says in the Hamalach HaGol that Jacob blessed Ephraim and Manasseh in the end of the book of Genesis. So it says Avraham ve'yitzchak ve'yidgu larov b'kerev ha'aretz. Okay, you remember those words? Remember from the song Hamalach, right, avraham, that's my father's name, the first letters of the following that's my last name and that's my father's name right there in the Torah. So no, the Torah does. It has to be personalized. You know, it's very interesting that you say that, because many people think that halacha means a set rules, but that's not really what it means. It's the guidelines and it's telling us the framework of how, for example, prayer, prayer, should be conducted in a certain way. But if you look at halacha, you will find everything has multiple opinions because there are many different ways in which people pray. Right, it'll say this is the way the Ashkenaz, their minhag, is, and the Sephira do this and the people from this place do that. Now, it doesn't mean that everyone Let me simplify this. Someone know, someone asked me once said Rabbi, I don't understand what you're talking about. He's like why don't you guys figure out yourselves first what you guys are doing? Because, like, there are about a thousand different Hasidic sects, each one has their own different customs, different things. You guys figure out what you want to do first, and then let me know, and I'll do it okay to do first, and then let me know and I'll do it okay. I said, yeah, but here's the thing you have to understand they all agree on the principles, the principles of Shabbos, kosher, tefillin right, family purity. Those are the fundamentals. The fundamentals that none of them question, the question of whether they wear the hat like this or they wear the hat like that. They have the payas like this or the payas like that. They all agree that they have to have payas right. They all agree that they have to have payas right. They all agree that they have to pray and that they have to keep Shabbos. The style is personalized and that each sect finds their own way. This one wears this color and this one wears that color, and this one wears this type of hat and that type of hat, no hat, this type of yarmulke, that type of yarmulke, that's fine, that's your own personal style, which the Torah says.
46:08
By the way, halacha comes from the word halicha, which is the path, your journey, which it's not, it's very not set. You can ask a question to a rabbi, a bona fide rabbi who knows the halacha, and you can ask and you can ask. Each one of us can ask a question and all get different answers and they're all correct. How is that possible? Because it's personalized to each person and their challenge, their specific situation, their circumstance. So it's very personalized, but within a framework, and that's what the halakh is there to do is to give the overall framework Within that framework. There is some maneuvering, again within the framework. Did I answer?
46:54 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
yeah, yeah, you know, uh, it's a shame that on podcasts you can't see the face of the people that are, because I'm just failing as I listen to my own children talk about torah in their own, uh way. That came from a reform approach to the text, to the teaching, to the heritage, and I think that the reform movement, first of all, it's not an ED, it's not reformed right. So you are absolutely right, the concept of reform. But it's constantly evolving and the early reformers made some, I think, significant miscalculations or misjudgments, for very good and meaningful reasons, diving into striving to have meaning through perhaps praying in the vernacular right. I want to understand what I'm saying. I can't just say it in this ancient tongue that I don't connect to or trying to follow. Simon mentioned the word ikar, looking for the kernel at the absolute center of the mitzvah and making sure you embrace that, as you perhaps do the mitzvah itself. The problem is that the more you're looking for the ikar, the more you're looking for the meaning, the more you're looking for the essence, the form also starts to disappear. So, over the course of 100 years, 150 years, whatever it may be, we find ourselves today, as Reform rabbis, trying to usher back the form, even though we also have this philosophy of that essence. So it's a gentle, bringing folks back to connect to tradition, to our heritage, to all of the elements that, within my own family, have embraced it in very different ways, and I pray, please God, that in the congregation as well. I'll tell you.
49:13
You told a funny story. That little first rung One of the first questions I received. It was one of my first questions, but it was my first year as a rabbi here in Houston and an older woman comes into my office and she says, rabbi, are crab cakes kosher for Pesach? And she says, rabbi, are crab cakes kosher for Pesach? Then I God, what am I do? I embarrass. I said, well, crab is never kosher, but I guess if you're going to make it you should use matzo meal. You know it was such an odd question. What am I supposed to say? But the form had completely lost itself on her. But she valued Pesach and matzah and she wasn't even thinking about the crab part. It was. I had a student call me up. He says, rabbi, I'm in the middle of eating shrimp.
50:08 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
I love this so much, can I say a blessing? I want to thank Hashem for call me up. He says Rabbi, I'm in the middle of eating shrimp. I love this so much. Can I say a blessing? I want to thank Hashem for giving me this. Yeah, he said what's the blessing for shrimp? Wow, we should talk later.
50:24 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
But I am failing. What Failing as I listen to this? That's my prayer. My prayer is that, just as you taught me to walk the people to the door, I want to walk the people from the door into the shul Right and step by step, by step Right.
50:41 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
So the question is I am a believer that in the roots of everything there was good intention. So I'll give you some of my challenge, particularly. I can only speak from my own experiences of what I've seen. So one of the people who worked for Torch was a member at one of the reformed congregations in Houston and she was making a bar mitzvah for her son and she invited us. She really wanted us to come. Now, obviously it was not in walking distance to where we live, so we stayed in the neighborhood close to where her congregation was for Shabbos and we walked to the bar mitzvah function. That was Shabbos afternoon, not to the service, but we weren't there for the service, but we were there for the function. We came in, we said mazel tov, but we were there for the function. We came in. We said Mazel Tov, you know it was like in Houston heat and it's just schmaltzing, we're sweating. And you know we walked in and she's like I can't believe that you actually made it. It's so special and the kids were all having their pepperoni pizza and you know, to me it was just like it pained me. It pains me because they don't know any better. They literally do not, it's not that they're doing this. Oh, let's see how we can hurt Hashem, like go against this Torah. No, they just don't know. They literally do not know.
52:05
That same woman came over to me. She was doing our program coordination. She walked into one of the classes and she said and she you know so she organized because the classes were in different locations at the time before we had a torch center. And she listened into the class and the rabbi was talking and saying that there are six different blessings that you recite on food before you eat them. Right, we have the bread. We have the wine, which is agafen. We have on pastries, we have mizonos. We have fruits from the tree, which is priya etz. We have ha-adama from things that grow from the ground, and shahako. And then three after blessings, depending on what it is the berkat ha-mazon, the me'en Shalosh, which is the Baruch Achronah, and the Bar Nefashos. And okay, and he just went on with his class.
52:53
She came to my office the next day and her face was bright, red, mad, as can be, and she's pounding on my desk. She says can you explain this to me? I'm a member in my congregation for 28 years and nobody can tell me that there's another blessing other than hamotzi lechem in aretz. She was so mad. How come she's been deprived of this knowledge? So that's my question is like what are we doing to help these people who are desperately wanting to know, to assist them in their growth and in their quest for more?
53:38 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Yiddishkeit and it's such a beautiful because it didn't matter at least to a Reformed Jew, even 20 years ago, that they're like. Oh, I said the blessing right. They just wanted to be able to connect, to recognize and appreciate the food they're about to eat, and they might even not know a blessing after. Now, in the reform movement, there is a conscious effort to start to re-institute those.
54:13
Re-introduce, re-introduce, yeah, and because there's a recognition that to some extent we've failed. We've lost that idea of being informed right. We did the same thing with Israel education, so we're doubling down and really trying to weave it into every level of our children today. So it's moving. If you look at the reform kind of the center of reform practice today and compare it to 20 years ago, it looks a little bit more like what conservative Judaism looks like. Not quite, we're not using the same prayer book, but the curriculum in our Sunday schools are much more similar and it's interesting to see this and it's important, very important, definitely.
55:15 - Simon Gross (Guest)
I grew up, reform. I was the star student, perfect attendance. Every year I was on that stage, except for one year, and that one year I didn't. The principal of the school really got on me. Why'd you miss those two days? The principal of the school really got on me. Why did you miss those two days we're talking about?
55:31
You know people who are going, you know, out of their way to ask questions about Pesach or Kashas or whatever it was. And one time I got a lot of messages from an Israeli guy who worked at different reform schools but was an Orthodox person himself and he says Simon, you have to understand, I'm not a parent, I don't have kids. He said Shem one day. Well, he says you have to understand is that, like most of these, people don't do very many Jewish things throughout the week. They're not thinking about Shabbos, they don't have a Hayom Yom Ravid, they're not thinking about Shabbos. Every day, come Sunday, every single one of these people is schlepping out of the way halfway across the city to take their kids for six hours. How many? Three hours, yeah, three hours a week. Once a week, that's it. And um, I got a tremendous amount of of education. That's three hours a week. Obviously I had a little bit of a leg up. Don't tell my classmates, but the rabbi actually lived at my house.
56:28
So I got my questions answered whenever I wanted but, um, it is impressive how much you can fit it into those three hours. But it's also it's hard to say, oh, how did the reform movement fail me when all you had was three hours a week and for you and me, I got the, the podcast. I'm here all day, but for a lot of people it's not the, it's not the main thing that's going on in their day. So I think that's one of the challenges for sure.
56:57 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
One of our listeners was a member of the Reform Congregation in Alabama and I think Huntington Alabama Is that a place?
57:07
I think it is a place right, yes, so he's David Hi and avid listener to all the Torch podcasts, really great guy. And he said that this Yom Kippur was the most special Yom Kippur because it's the first time in his life that he did not watch the Alabama game and his family thought he was nuts, but that was his step to make that. You know, people are like what's wrong with him, why isn't he watching the Bama game? So that's, and again, every step, every step is golden. It's so special, it's so precious.
57:49 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Can I say something, please? Okay, I feel called to just talk about. So I worked on a college campus for the past four years at the University of Denver and meeting students where they're at is so important. Meeting people where they're at is so important, and so I think about what the reform movement offers and offered me as a kid and offered the kids that I got to teach on campus. And you have to meet people where they're at, like the reality is we all grow up, however we do, and so I think it's all about the growth mindset, because you know there is a time and a place for all of these movements and what they were created for and why they were trying to meet the moment.
58:35
Right, is it better to engage in any way than in no way? And once you're in the door, how can we actually elevate somebody's experience so that they can learn more and grow more? So I think it's just about also meeting people where they're at. To me, that's what the denominations kind of illuminate is like where are you? Like? It's hard if you don't speak any Hebrew, to walk into an Orthodox synagogue and feel like you know what's going on and can participate, necessarily, right? So not that that's not an option, but I think, seeing where we are in Jewish literacy in the world right now, there's a space for people, when they walk in a Reform or Conservative synagogue, to say, oh, I'm only at Aleph, let's start at Aleph. How can we grow from there?
59:30 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Aleph. Let's start at Aleph. How can we grow from there? A hundred percent, I think, overall, I mean as a people, we have to change the focus. You know, we should create an international university of Jewish wisdom where you know, it's like every. I'm ready to start right here.
59:48 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Let's go, let's go.
59:48 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
We got a napkin.
59:49 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
We got a napkin, we got a napkin, we got a napkin.
59:51 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
We can start this, but I feel like you know, there should be a goal, a standard that we set for ourselves, for our children, for our students, for our congregations and for our brothers and sisters around the world to get involved in learning, which is for us. We're a small organization here in Houston and to see, I really take it as a big responsibility. I want you to know this that I feel and years ago, way before there was ever podcasting, I bought these little cameras for each of our rabbis so that they put a camera in front of them and we posted them. Those are those videos on YouTube and it's like, if you're giving a class, might as well share it with the world so those who are not sitting in the classroom can also enjoy it. Today we have well over a million downloads and a year of our podcasts and 8,000, almost 8,000 subscribers on our YouTube channel, and the goal is someone who's not sitting here in my class in Houston, texas. They're in Alaska, they're in Chile. Wherever in the world they are, they can listen. We got an interesting my brother got an email from this guy writes he says listen, I've been listening an hour a day to your podcast every single day and I want to convert, but I don't know any Orthodox rabbis in Iran. Oh my gosh, what. I'm not kidding you, it was like what. So I'm like I know a few Mossad agents there, but people around the world are listening and I think we need to provide more for our congregants, for our communities, and I think that perhaps the biggest challenge is to not have any inconsistencies in preaching something that we don't feel or live by Meaning.
01:01:52
I had a student who told me he says he was not Orthodox at all. He was a member of a former congregation here in Houston. He said I'll tell you what I like about you and learning with you. He says I like that when you talk about Shabbos, you don't just talk about Shabbos, you actually observe it. When you talk about tefillin, you don't just talk about it, you actually observe it, which I think is definitely a virtue.
01:02:15
But I think that every person should be able to be on a journey to share what you know. To share what you know. It means you know I may not be there, but it's something I aspire to. For example, I don't perfectly observe the laws of Lashon Hara. Does that mean that I am disqualified from teaching the laws of Lashon Hara. No, on the contrary, right, it's something I aspire to reach, aspire to to reach, and that's why I want to learn it with, with people, and teach it so that I can successfully influence my own actions to do that.
01:02:56
But just because I don't observe it doesn't mean I want to tear down those laws and break down the walls of the laws of proper speech, which I feel is perhaps one of the challenges that some of the movements have Is where you know it's kind of inconvenient. So maybe we just change the rules a little bit. And that's my biggest challenge with the conservative movement Is their permission that they gave their congregants to drive to shul, for example, which later they rescinded, but it was already too late, the cat was out of the bag and they could never put it back in. So how do you deal with that in your school?
01:03:42 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Such a good question, and I think it's something that I'll probably struggle with for a long time, like how do you, if you are the conservative movement, this big umbrella of what does it mean to be observant? Right, then, how? How do you define what observance is? I think a lot of it comes down to learning, right? I think it comes down to all of the same things that we've been talking about just before this of like people should have the information to make informed decisions.
01:04:20
Something I actually really respect about what the conservative movement's methodology is is to use the methodology of halakha that we've had for a really long time of saying, oh well, rav, this person says this and Rav, this person says this, and this tradition did this and this tradition did this.
01:04:35
And then, when you come into the modern day, for example with driving, what is electricity actually? What are these things actually? Are they actually the act of creation? Is an electric car really spark of any kind? And so grappling with those things, and I think it's up to individual people to make those informed decisions themselves. And then it becomes hard, because what if you, as the rabbi, are not living in the same way as your congregants? But I think to the point that you were saying if we can live the best life that we're trying to live, maybe it can inspire others to to do that as well and maybe it can inform them to make those decisions as well it's a fascinating, fascinating there's a really cool website that has all of the responsa that the conservative movement have made all the chuvot around different topics.
01:05:34
I was just exploring it because I'm we have a halacha, I'm in introduction to halacha, and so we were supposed to pick a responsa and give a presentation on to the rest of our classes. Searching through the archives, like trying to seek what seemed exciting to me, and there's a lot of topics that they've explored throughout time.
01:05:56 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
So if anyone's interested in checking out kind of how the conservative movement looks through those things and decides those kind of big longer decisions, I would welcome you to check it out and welcome us all, Doug Right, I'll tell you that one of the biggest challenges I mentioned this to you on Thursday morning one of the local rabbis, when the conservative movement was dealing with all of the gay marriages, whether they should or should not officiate them, et cetera, et cetera. So one of the local rabbis here, one of the conservative rabbis, wrote a very long article outlining some of his history of being an attorney.
01:06:34
And he said that there's a concept of black letter law. And black letter law means that they took out all the doubts. It means there's no way to look at it other than this. There's no way to look at it other than this. And he says the way the Torah gives the command in Leviticus of that a man should not be with another man is black letter law. It's like it says it very, very clearly.
01:06:59
But then he went on to say well, today's a different generation and therefore it's not applicable and we can do whatever we want. So basically, I'm oversimplifying what he wrote and to me that's very, very challenging because you're saying that the torah that was given to us at mount sinai by the almighty, who I think had a vision for the future, okay, uh, is suddenly irrelevant and like, how do you square that circle? Like, how does that like? So if that's irrelevant, then why is shabb? So if that's irrelevant, then why is Shabbos relevant? If that's irrelevant, why is kosher relevant? Maybe kosher was just relevant back then. Today it's not relevant. And I've heard people say, oh, the reason why pork is not kosher in the Torah is because that trigonosis. But today there's no trigonosis and they're cleaner. So therefore it's okay, I didn't know that we can. We get into very problematic things when we start shaving down what the Torah meant, when the Torah gives a clear command. So what do we do with that?
01:08:03 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Yeah, it's a really good and difficult question and I think something that I kind of lean on a lot when I'm thinking about the conservative movement is that the Gemara is rabbis arguing and discussing and thinking about the different communities that they're in and bringing in their different stories. Right, those are our oral Torahs, are the stories we've been grappling with and they were talking to each other and I think that we should still be in those conversations. I think we should still be arguing with the text and saying, oh, but in this community, this is what they were doing, not to say it should be in conflict with and I agree with that.
01:08:45 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
And I pointed out in my Friday Talmud class class. Every single week I point out about how important it is to have that disagreement and that argument and to ask the questions, but they still never said that the Torah isn't relevant because it's ancient, because it's from 3,300 years ago where God gave it to us at Mount Sinai, when we were in the desert and we didn't have technology and therefore you could do what you want because today we have technology and therefore you could do what you want because today we have technology. You know what I'm saying. There's a big difference between saying, okay, we're just turning a page because it's a different world. No, it's still God's world. Last I checked the creator of heaven and earth and nothing. He didn't leave, he didn't sign out.
01:09:19 - Lily Gross (Guest)
Right, and I think the conservative movement actually addresses that with the responsa. The form is the same that we've been using in argumentation to create halacha, right. The shul hanarach is like mainly three rabbis that were looked to to decide what is it that we're actually going to do? And so I think, to answer these big questions that we as societies are struggling with, we're looking to those texts. They're not null and void, I don't think that that's at least the intention, right. And there's always a tension there of what's the intention and what is the structure, and sometimes the intention might break the structure. And I think that's what happens in the conservative movement often with these responsa is that then the form is broken, right.
01:10:10
And once the form starts to break, how do you hold anything together? And that's something I think we're really struggling with and something we see a lot in terms of the conservative movement's observance, right. Once you start chipping away at the form, what's holding it all together? And I will say I think the response to that really is living Jewishly, right. So let's say, for the example, with gay marriage, I have many friends who are gay and practicing Jews and want to be practicing Jews, right. So how do you hold those two truths in the same instance, and I think it should be to allow people to live the lives that they're living and to incorporate Jewish practice, jewish value, into that. How do we make space for those people who weren't written right? I think that's what the conservative movement's trying to do make space for those that aren't written in the black text. What's what's in the spaces in between?
01:11:13 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I'll say you're doing a good job for a first year rabbinic student, right five months in. In the conservative movement is sandwiched between uhakhic Torah, judaism and the other end of the spectrum where the Reform Movement is, which kind of says Torah has a vote but not a veto in my decision-making in life and which, as we've said already, kind of dismisses a lot of these things. So you're sandwiched in between, trying to make good in the middle. But I think that you've done a good job defending the conservative movement. After how many months Four months, three months of?
01:12:07 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
learning.
01:12:08 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I'm not attacking, oh no, no no, no, but I'm just saying it's kind of interesting to hear each of my kids Right, and I didn't grow up conservative, so it is.
01:12:19 - Lily Gross (Guest)
I come from a really interesting space in conservative spaces because I didn't go to USY or go to camp with everybody. My outlook is a little bit different, but I think that there is an attempt to hold both of those things. I don't know if that answers your question right, but again it's.
01:12:42 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
We are evolving as a world, but the principles, in my understanding and belief of the Torah, the principles don't change because of that. Yeah, while you know, yeah, they didn't have rocket ships going to space, they didn't have SpaceX, you know, and all of these things. So yet that might be true and all of these things, so yet that might be true, that still doesn't change the fundamentals of how the Torah tells us to observe our lives and to hopefully take our steps closer in our connections. We had a conversation on Friday night, I believe it was about what is a mitzvah. What is a mitzvah, what is a sin? And in my understanding my limited understanding of what a mitzvah is, a mitzvah is something that brings you closer to God. A sin is something that distances you, and the Torah gives you the prescription of what it is. Don't eat certain foods. It'll distance you from God. Do this, do that, it'll get you closer to God. And that's really what they are. They're vehicles of connection to the Almighty and I'm a big fan of that.
01:13:56 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
I love that. I think the concept of the vehicle and when you're talking, I think of Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof. You know on the one hand, on the other hand, and so there's lots of those machloket that can really, you know, say well, on the one hand, this is good, and on the other hand, this is good, and they're coming face to face, and how do? We, and then at some, point.
01:14:18
He goes on the one hand and there is no other hand right so where does that happen? When does that it's? It's sometimes in in the modern world. Uh, depending on the the approach to jewish connection that we're taking, there might not be as many on the other hands for some communities and on my community we've got a lot of on the one hand on the other hand on the one end of the other and and uh, it's, it's.
01:14:46
It's just a lot of more juggling of of ideas, but we're still. The beautiful thing is that we're still on the one handing and, on the other handing with the same principles that you're talking about, and and I love the way torch allows every branch of the faith to struggle with that. As long as you, what you're encouraging us to do is, please struggle, just keep the struggle.
01:15:11 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Get in the fight, get in the ring, get in it, get in it. I always say those who are in the bleachers are not in the game. Those who are on the field are in the game. Right, guaranteed. They're not throwing the ball to you. If you're out in the bleachers, right, but if you're on the field, you better be ready. Right. And it's like people say, like it usually comes up because people say, like Rabbi, till I started learning with you, I really had no problems in my life. Suddenly, we started learning. I started to have challenging situations with my spouse. I started having challenging like welcome, you're on the field, you're gonna get the ball thrown at you and it's going to hit you. You're not going to be ready. You got to be ready for the. You know it's like. Either way, my blessing and parting words. We're already in a good 75 minutes, oh my.
01:15:57
So, yeah, time flies when you're having fun, right? I would love to have another follow-up, but I think that we need to A. The number one is ben adam l'chavero and then is ben adam l'makom. We have to have the love for our fellow Jew that should overflow. And when we have that, then we're able to bring godliness into their lives.
01:16:22
And if we're able to take the love for every single Jew and, by the way, I wear this pin every day and when I go to the Starbucks, wherever it may be, wherever I go, and I see two Jews sitting together I don't care, male, female, older, younger I will always now go over to them, introduce myself and say you know what October 7th taught me?
01:16:49
That we're not any different.
01:16:51
And sometimes they look at me strangely and then they don't want me to leave their table because we're having a conversation and we're schmoozing and we're having a good time, but really is like let's go out there and open that conversation of like we're all brothers, we're all sisters, let's go, let's be united as a people.
01:17:04
I think that that's our first mission and our goal is for every Jew to feel, yes, I'm part of the family and then hopefully inspire every person we meet with something, give them some meaning, give them some way to not be the same person they were before they met us and to have something to share with them, whether it be a word of inspiration, whether it be something word of inspiration, whether it be something that's you know From your sermon, I'm sure, which is very enlightening and something that we can you know. It says that a person should never part their fellow, your friend, is going on a trip. It shouldn't be about anything other than like leave them off with a thought of halacha, why They'll be thinking whenever they recall you, they'll be recalling that halacha They'll be recalling. So it gives them an opportunity to learn every time they associate you with their study of Torah.
01:18:00
And I think that we need to do that with our friends. We meet them out there in the world. We have to be responsible and I really I feel this as a almost overwhelming burden that we need to take responsibility for our fellow Jews and to give them everything that we can on their journey.
01:18:20 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
Because we can change the world. So, rabbi, leave us with one parting halacha, for us and for the listeners.
01:18:30 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Putting me on the spot Rabbi, speechless, it's impossible. So one of my favorite halachas is that when we wash our hands, netilat yadayim we're supposed to have, we're supposed to wash our whole hand from our wrist down and have our fingers open like this and we pour.
01:18:55
That way it washes the whole hand. And then when we say the blessing, we should put the hands up in the ear and look at our hands as they're open like this. That's very interesting because in our prayers, if you look at halacha, it says one of the most important parts of prayers is saying the asherah, because in it there's a verse that says and I want to connect the two why do we have to have our hands open and why do we wash them to begin with? My hands are pretty clean.
01:19:28
You're accusing me of having dirty hands, rabbi. No, what we're doing is, when we're about to eat bread, we wash our hands. Why? Because bread is success. We work hard, we buy bread, we buy food. We can fall into a place of arrogance where we think that that success comes from me. You know what you have to do Wash away that arrogance.
01:19:55
Open up your hands and realize that you have nothing, only what Hashem gives you. You raise it up to the heavens, say I realize, when I'm reciting this, blessing Hashem, everything is from you. I just washed away my arrogance. The bread that you're giving me is a gift of sustenance. It's not a given, it's not because I'm so smart and I was able to earn a living and I'm able to put the food on my table. We wash that thought away and raise up our hands and say Hashem, I'm washing away that arrogance. I realize, look, my hands are, you know, all perforated. Right, they have nothing. Everything I do have is from you. That's my halacha. Thank you. Thank you, rabbi, thank you. Thank you so much, simon. Thank you, lily, thank you.
01:20:42
Rabbi, this is an absolute honor, a privilege and what do you say thank you, thank you Rabbi, thank you, thank you so much, simon. Thank you Lily, thank you Rabbi. This is an absolute honor, a privilege. And what do you say? Parting words, my parting words. It doesn't have to be alaha anything no, no.
01:20:55 - Rabbi Steve Gross (Guest)
My parting words is this is such a blessing. It's a blessing as a father to watch my children and be able to share with them in a podcast. This is something special. And it's a blessing to be with you, because not only are we good friends, but you find yourself a teacher. You've always been a teacher to me, since you've entered the Houston community.
01:21:15 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
So, thank you, lily. What are your words?
01:21:18 - Lily Gross (Guest)
I actually want to just circle back to kind of the very beginning, where my dad said something along the lines of being a teacher and you will always be my rabbi, and so it's very special to get to be inspired by you and to get to continue that growth and to watch and be inspired by everyone around me, including you, simon, along your whole journey.
01:21:45 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
She's your rabbi, right, she brought you to Israel.
01:21:48 - Simon Gross (Guest)
She did bring me to Israel the first time. I'd just like to give a short plug to Rabbi Harenstein, who I once asked Rabbi, I was thinking and danced. He said you're thinking. So my message to all the listeners and to myself is that we should all think just a little bit more. And the thought I'm having right now is how appreciative I am obviously for you for having me for Shabbos this week, and to my dad and mom for taking care of me literally all the time, and for Lily for being such a good sister.
01:22:21 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
Amazing. My dear friends, thank you so much for joining us on this Sunday special, a really, really, really special Sunday edition of the Jewish Inspiration Podcast, and I look forward to continue to learn and be inspired by every single day of our lives, everything that we interact with. My dear friends, so long, thank you. Shavua Tov, thank you for being here, and Shalom.
01:22:46 - Intro (Announcement)
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