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Introducing ReFolkUs, a new podcast by Folk Music Ontario, where we talk to artists and music industry professionals about building sustainable careers as creative workers, with a focus on folk.
RFU 202 - Treasa Levasseur Transcript
[00:00:00] Rosalyn: Hi, and welcome to ReFolkUs. Today we are having a conversation with the inaugural recipient of the Estelle Klein Community Builder Award. The Estelle Klein Award is one of the highest honors given to members of our community by members of our community. And this year, after extensive community consultation about the process of facilitating the award, we decided to add the community builder category to honor folks who are the builders, the agitators, the congregators, the moving parts that make the retro-fitted, veggie oiled tour van of this music industry go. And I am so excited to introduce you to someone you may already know and love, the inaugural recipient of this year's Estelle Klein Community Builder Award, Treasa Levasseur.
Treasa is a busy creative who wears many hats with enthusiasm. She is a Juno nominated songwriter, a seasoned side person, and has self released four albums over the course of her career as a front person. These days, she's finding fresh inspiration in her work as a community facilitator, program administrator and arts educator, as well as being an in demand MC and pop up choir leader.
Treasa helmed the Developing Artists Program at Folk Music Ontario for six years and recently completed a six year stint at Folk Alliance International. Elle est une fierte Franco-Ontarienne and a proud Hamiltonian and believes strongly in the power of personal expression as an agent of positive change.
Please enjoy this conversation with Treasa Levasseur.
Hello, Treasa. How are you doing?
[00:02:06] Treasa: I am hanging in there. How are you?
[00:02:09] Rosalyn: I'm doing very well. I'm so excited to talk with you today. Uh, first of all, congratulations on being the first ever inaugural recipient of the Estelle Klein Community Builder Award.
How does it feel?
[00:02:22] Treasa: It's a huge honor. I've been nominated for a lot of things in my life. I've never won any of them and so this feels especially sweet. When I found out, I immediately thought of the day I met Estelle Klein. Uh, in her home, I went with my pal at the time, still my pal, Trevor Mills, and we had tea with Estelle.
And I had no idea who she was, but I had every idea that I loved this fiery spark plug of a human being and, she was outspoken and she was warm and she was opinionated and she was kind and she kind of held all of those seemingly opposite traits in one frizzy haired shape and I loved her and so this is a huge, huge, huge, huge honor.
[00:03:15] Rosalyn: That's so neat. Did you meet her after that? Or like, did you continue on with a relationship with Estelle after?
[00:03:20] Treasa: No, that was the one and only time and I feel like she was not long for the world after that.
[00:03:26] Rosalyn: Yeah.
[00:03:27] Treasa: I only learned about her work afterwards when I started to become more involved in the folk music community.
[00:03:33] Rosalyn: Amazing. Can we start by doing a little time traveling, to way back, little tiny Treasa. I'm wondering, what role music had in your life in your childhood, when you were, when you were a young person, did you grow up around a lot of it or was this like a choice that you made? What were some of the influences?
[00:03:52] Treasa: This is a great question.
I guess, to really go back, I would not be here if it wasn't for music. My father was, at the time that my parents met in 1968, a Catholic priest in Thompson, Manitoba. And my mother signed up on a mission, a Catholic mission, to save the people of Manitoba.
I mean, it's so weird. But she was going to save them by being the choir director at the church. And so, my dad picked her up at the train station and that resulted in her making a life and a baby, me, and then my brother. So that's, it's definitely part of my origin story. It's part of my childhood. I was really sick when I was a baby and like a little toddler. I was in the hospital a lot. And the one thing that I asked my parents to bring me was music, like a little, tape recorder with tapes.
And then I went to see The Sound of Music, when I, they all, I feel like all these stories I've told so many times, but I don't want to discount them. So when I was three, my auntie, Mary Anaca, took me to see The Sound of Music at the movie theater. Obviously, Julie Andrews is a huge template for my entire life. And when I came home from that, I swiftly retrieved my Fisher Price xylophone, and began the work of... picking up all those tunes by ear and playing them relentlessly. For months, until my parents purchased a piano, which, in retrospect, was probably for their own mental health, um, and that was that. As soon as I had a piano, I was absolutely hooked and played classical. I had a little acapella vocal trio in high school. My mom still ran the choir, so I did a lot of choir. I actually accompanied the choir.
My mom never let me sing the lead, always made me sing alto. Which... at the time, I'm here to tell you I was super annoyed because I was like, I'm the best singer in here. Why do I always have to sing the alto? But in retrospect, thanks mom, because I have done so much side person playing and singing is such a huge part of my life.
And if it wasn't for my mom thinking I was too big for my own britches, I would not have the career that I have. So thanks mom for all, for marrying a Catholic priest and putting me in my place.
[00:06:18] Rosalyn: That's an incredible origin story. That's so cool. I didn't, I didn't know that story. So thank you for sharing it. How long were you in Manitoba?
[00:06:26] Treasa: We lived in Manitoba until I was seven and then we moved to North Bay, Ontario. It was between Bay, Labrador and North Bay, Ontario. Um, my, for my dad work, you know, it was a transfer and so we chose North Bay, which was amazing, me because North Bay at that time you either were like a hockey kid, or you were in musical theatre, like as a sort of after school pursuit.
That's what it felt like to me anyway. Like there were these, these two big themes. Obviously, not a hockey player! So I did musical theatre, and it was hugely formative for me. I wound up going to theatre school, but also... doing musical theater for as long as I did, really shaped me as a folk musician. And really gave me my particular folk superpower, what I believe to be my folk superpower, in music. Which is leaning into the text of the song and really meaning it.
Like, really delivering the feeling and the thinking and the emotion and the story of the song and you know, it's a natural fit for folk because it's all about connection and story.
[00:07:43] Rosalyn: Were you aware of folk music at that time? Like when did you catch the folk?
[00:07:50] Treasa: I think that I always had folk, like, in my life and on my mixtapes, and the first CD that I bought was Gordon Lightfoot, followed by Simon and Garfunkel. My first year of university, my res monitor, the poor young woman who had to be responsible for all of these 18 and 19 year olds. She made me a mixtape, full of Joni Mitchell.
[00:08:15] Rosalyn: Nice.
[00:08:16] Treasa: I was huge into the Indigo Girls, and I mean, they are such a folk band, even though I don't know that people would classify them necessarily as folk, but if you lean into the lyric, like it's all story, it's all, it's political, it's, it's everything you want,....Ani DiFranco.
So I think I was folk without knowing. I was folk. I didn't have the concept of the, the legendary and the historical, like narratives of Canadian folk, which not to bring up Trevor Mills again, but I feel like I have to bring up Trevor because Trevor was really …Trevor and Aengus really like, and the undesirables, but in a different way, it was Trevor who introduced me to the world of Canadian folk music and who started to help me understand the who's who of this.
And I was jealous of when I started to understand that, like, when I started to know that like Trevor or Evelyn Perry or Kara Loft, like Len Pedelic, that all of these people had parents who had this scene with them. That they had grown up in. And all I had was a Fisher Price xylophone and the sound of music.
Like, there was a part of me that was like, really like, well, no wonder I'm having a hard time. I mean, I was young. No wonder I'm having a hard time breaking in. Like, I don't make sense in this world. Like, I felt a little bit like I was knocking on a locked door. But I didn't realize that I was actually knocking on a wall.
There, there was no door. I was welcome to just walk in. It took me a while to figure that out.
[00:09:49] Rosalyn: you were knocking on the beaded curtain
[00:09:51] Treasa: Like, no wonder, like it's not swinging open. Cause it's a beaded curtain. Just follow the scent of the bachilli.
You'll, you'll get there.
[00:09:58] Rosalyn: Was there a moment where all of a sudden you kind of realized you were, you were in it? Like, was there a moment where you're like, ‘oh this is my community now. I'm, I'm in it’?
[00:10:08] Treasa: Yep. Um, I'd been writing songs for a while. I'd still been doing a lot of theater because I went to theater school and was still really involved in like theater people. I was given an accordion by Aengus, out of the back of his car like some, like some joke. He opened up the trunk, he's like, I got this banjo and this accordion, do you guys want this?
And Trevor's like, I'll take the banjo. He's like, I'll have the accordion. And around that time I was playing a lot of cabarets and open mics and whatnot and I met Corin who's been just like, I mean, my brother in song. Like we've played together so much, but I met him and then I went to see The Undesirables and then, I mean, just between you and me and the million people who are listening to or, and, or watching on YouTube this podcast, I developed a really out of control crush on both Corin and Sean.
And so, I volunteered myself and my car and a month of my life to just drive them around uh, on their summer tour up to Red Rock and Ear Falls for a trip fest. And it was that summer. It was that summer when I was like doing the merch, but then getting up and singing a tune with them. And then I went to Red Rock and like jammed and like my accordion had been unlocking this ability to jam within the theater community. All The Carpenters were jammers and they were teaching me the John Prine songs and the Fred Eagle Smith songs and all that jazz. But it was when I went on tour that summer. With, I mean, when I was a tour manager.
It's so weird. Uh, yeah, and I got up to Ear Falls in Manitoba. I was like, you should play a few tunes, a tweener or something like that. And I got up and that was it. I was like fully, fully hooked. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I'm gonna make a record. I came back. I was like, I'm gonna make a record. And my boyfriend at the time was like, why are you wasting your money? You shouldn't make a record. And that was my first, like, I had made, I had a secret record from before. Not under my own name.
[00:12:04] Rosalyn: Oh.
[00:12:04] Treasa: That is not on any of the services. I made 300 CD copies. Probably the listenership of this podcast has most of them.
Um, and, uh, but that was funk music, like funk neo soul, another life of mine. Uh, and then I made Not a Straight Line and it really like just opened up so many doors for me. I went to Folk Alliance. I went to Folk Music Ontario for the first time. And, uh, that was it. Once I entered the world of like, the folk music conference and the late night rooms and the jam culture and the web of friendship and colleagueship, um, I just wanted more.
I just wanted to play with everyone and be with everyone and do all the things, volunteer, like, just be at folk festivals all the time, be in the kids area, be at the merch table. It didn't matter to me, actually. It was just such a cool hang. So many actors in my life before that, right? And so entering into the world of, like, musicians. I was like, oh wow, everyone here is so much cooler. No, no shade on actors, but like, they love to listen to me. I'm an actor. I'm talking about myself. You don't even have to ask me any questions. But yeah, it was just such a cool world.
[00:13:17] Rosalyn: Somebody asked me at some point recently, like, oh, why do you, why do you like conferences or why do you like FMO or these types of conferences? And it's like, the hang is so good, like, even if I had nothing to, to accomplish there, like, it's a community gathering and it's the hang that kind of draws you in and holds you there.
And if, y'all might allow me to say it, it truly did in, in many ways because you then end up working for both FMO and Folk Alliance in different types of roles. I believe FMO came, first in that?
[00:13:51] Treasa: Yeah, the first day I officially showcased at both. And did that whole thing and dragged my giant mannequin around. And was like, an artist..
[00:13:59] Rosalyn: Okay, let's back up to, let's explain the giant mannequin.
[00:14:02] Treasa: So I had this giant mannequin. Um, that was like, this was in the cowboy days. Before there were so many regulations about how to promote yourself.
And before the organizations were really monetizing advertising by artists. And so it was all just a bit looser. And by a bit, I mean like a lot, it was all a lot looser. Uh, and so I had this, I really didn't like the posters. It just seemed so wasteful to me. And this was 2006. So I bought myself a mannequin, a full-size mannequin, and had bought a wig and had to cut exactly the same as my hair.
And toted it around the conference. I think she debuted in the US and the Americans loved her 'cause she's so over the top, uh, and Kaia Kater and her pal Emily, both of whom went through the Developing Artist Program, formerly known as the Youth Mentorship Program. Um, they actually dressed her and moved her in the hotel every evening and she had like a little whiteboard with my shows on it, and she wore my friend's t-shirts.
And she was like, people still talk about it. People are like, “oh, you're the mannequin girl.” Like that was in fact, like close to 20 years ago, but yes, yes I was. Um, and the FMO official that I did was, it was just, it was responsible for launching my career and getting me an agent and I think I played 10 festivals that summer, like main stages, stages I had no business playing at. And I did that cycle for a while. Even though when I had initially gone to the conferences, I thought that was the fit for me. It wasn't quite it. And I think, for me, the reason was because I have... Well, it's the reason why I'm no longer touring. It's so difficult to feel like you're in service to the community when you spend so much time serving yourself.
And I, and I don't mean that in, like, that I'm... I want to be very clear about that. The promotion machine part of it, for me, was exactly the reason I couldn't be an actor. I didn't want to be an actor, and it felt exhausting to me to do that. And I admire people like Corin, for example or John Muirhead, a great example. There's a guy who, like, derives energy from figuring out ways to connect with people via his music. Not just the show. If it was all just the show, I'd be aces. I wouldn't have stopped. But like, the salesmanship, it's a special skill set and it's a skill set that I don't have. I'm not a salesperson.
I, I, just make me, I'm getting sweaty armpits just talking about it now. Um, and so that phase led into the phase where I much prefer to be a side person and attend these and just play tons of shows. And then that led into, I mentored, I think I mentored three times in the program. And then Jill's Mud was leaving the program and said, would you like to take it over? And I was like, would I, I have so many ideas. And that was then I was doing, um, what came DAP Program.
[00:17:33] Rosalyn: Yeah, And, and for a while, too, I think six years?
[00:17:36] Treasa: Yeah.
[00:17:37] Rosalyn: Like it was, and you've seen some incredible artists. You mentioned KaIa, you mentioned John,
[00:17:42] Treasa: Tragedy Anne, like the list just goes to Mia Kelly, like the list is, is really extensive and I could list every single person, Cassidy Houston, and the people who came to be mentors. That was a big passion for me doing that program, reaching beyond the folks who've done it three times and into. Areas of the industry where I wanted those people to be part of our community.
[00:18:17] Treasa: I wanted them to like, not just come and showcase, but like be part of the community and like asking people, like I asked Julian Taylor to be a mentor because I liked his music, the end,
[00:18:30] Rosalyn: mm,
[00:18:30] Treasa: As I, like, I asked those guys to just come and do it because I was a fan and because there was something about what they were doing that felt like it was the right fit.
[00:18:40] Rosalyn: mm,
[00:18:40] Treasa: That was really fun. That was such a great, curatorial honor to put together these groups of people.
[00:18:49] Rosalyn: Those are some real gentle souls and like really kind folks, that you found and, and curated, to be working with people that are, you know, probably their first time attending any sort of event like this and, means a lot that you put so much intention behind that curation.
[00:19:11] Treasa: It was a big and sacred part of that gig for me like there were a couple of failures. There are a couple people that are wonderful songwriters and just not cut out for contemporary mentorship who might have been great mentors in a different time for, let's say, if they were mentoring Gen X, that would have been perfect.
But the Millennials and the Gen Zs have different needs and different And it's a different world. And yeah, it was a real growth experience for me. And I am looking at that list of people and thinking about how much they share their knowledge, like how bringing back people who've been in the program before, Benishi Quay, KaIa again, or bringing in like, like Ray Spoon came.
Like that's amazing. Ray's just an incredible artist and came and involved themselves in our community in a way that was really deep. Janice Jo Lee, like all of these people that are very special to me as humans, and I feel honored to have spent time with them. And to have grown the program and to have had enough trust placed in the program and the people around it that we could also, from within, criticize the program and work towards making it better.
More mindful, more authentically invitational, less extractive. yeah, it was hard to let it go. But I turned 50 this year, and I, I really think that a youth program should be youth driven even in the leadership of it. Not that, not that I'm saying like dismiss the elders, not at all, but more that, relinquishing a curatorial position before you're kicked out. Like I wish more people in our business did that. I really do. And this is a tip of the hat. Liz Scott, you did an awesome job at Mariposa and I'm very proud to have participated in your programming there. And, I was also very admiring of you, making way.
And I encourage other people who've been in their jobs for a super long time to really deeply consider succession as not an end of the road thing, but as a new thread in the braid.
[00:21:43] Rosalyn: Mm.
[00:21:43] Treasa: Reinvention, or revitalization of our, our ecology.
[00:21:49] Rosalyn: That's gorgeous. I want to amplify that message, I feel like that maybe doesn't get, talked about, too much, you know,
[00:22:00] Treasa: Well, who's gonna talk about it. Like, not an artist. Not someone who wants those gigs and not someone who wants those presenters to come to their event so who's going to talk about it? Loudmouths like me and Estelle Klein!
[00:22:19] Rosalyn: Let's talk about some of the, some of the other cool gigs you've done because when we're talking about community building, uh, you've done like a ton of education work and stuff in schools and, through Ontario Arts Council, you did some some incredible programs.
[00:22:33] Treasa: dDone a lot of, uh, arts education work. I had a business for 20 years. that was called Sing Move Play, uh, in which I went to wealthy people's houses in Toronto and sang songs to their babies in their basements. I did Stories Come Alive, which was a kindergarten program through the Ontario Arts Council that wove in stories and music and interactive.
It was. It's a very bananas program. I saw so many kinder kids and here in Hamilton, uh, I did the Art Beat Program. I went out and did community stuff with that and lots of kids. Lots of kids parades, and lots of Bokuja festivals. and I still work in education. I'm doing a cross Canada project with, uh, the Art Gallery of Hamilton, uh, which is a remote arts teaching program.
I'm gonna do some songwriting and some podcasting. Um, classes with, students who are in one room school rooms or who live super remotely and who don't have the opportunity for artists to visit their classrooms in person. and that's a big passion of mine. I did a puppet project throughout the whole pandemic online.
Thousands of kids made garbage puppets and then we acted them out. podcast for, um, AIM, Artists in Motion. I did an art podcast and had the great honor of interviewing nine or ten artists for that. It was. really great, like learned so much about people who've always been kind of road pals, but that I hadn't done the deep dive with.
Um, and I worked at Folk Alliance. Uh, I just finished a six year tenure there, in a huge number of roles, a vast number of different roles. and that was again, like a really Big honor for me to, work for an organization that had meant so much to me and that really shaped my, the direction of my life as an artist to then sort of participate in a very different way and, uh, work with some colleagues in the States to establish some programming and lots of work on the cultural equity council there.
And, you know, working, working there through the pandemic was, uh, yeah, it was big ship. In real stormy waters. And suddenly they're like, Oh, you thought you were in the games, lady? Nope! Get in this engine room! Immediately! And, uh, it really brought me through.
[00:25:02] Treasa: But it was time for me to go. It was time for me to step aside and let somebody else do the curation of those conversations.
[00:25:10] Rosalyn: Okay, we were speaking to Aengus recently, and he, he had mentioned that when, the folks at Folk Alliance first mentioned wanting to hire a Community Programming person he said immediately, without a doubt, Treasa was like the, the name that, it was community and Tressa.
[00:25:31] Treasa: Interesting. My first job there was called Canadian Representative.
[00:25:35] Rosalyn: cool.
[00:25:36] Treasa: Um, and it had been Anna Mura's job and Anna went on that leave and the conference was coming to Canada. And so Aengus was like, do you want to do this? It's basically like touching base with everybody in Canada and making sure they all come, making sure they all feel welcome, making sure their voices are heard, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, yes, this sounds good for me. And then after I did that, at the end of the Montreal conference, I actually said to Aengus, this is not a job. This is a bad title. Here's the title. Outreach and Community. And, um, he was like, yes, that's correct. And that's, that's, that's how it went. But the job was a community job from the beginning.
[00:26:13] Rosalyn: Yeah. And then, did it change when you were doing that focused on like the conference being in, in the States versus like when it was,
[00:26:24] Treasa: Oh, for sure. For sure. There's a lot more cold calling and yeah, like the job changed into outreach and so that was just like learning about the presenter ecology of the states and the various conferences that they have and who's where and who does what and like spreadsheets of a thousand names of festivals and emailing them all to get them to come and doing mentorship program and doing one on one meetings and all that jazz and supporting it.
Thank you. Um, in 2018 supporting Cindy Cogbill, as she did programming there in 2019, supporting Amie Terrien, as she did programming there in 2021, supporting Michelle Kinseyson, as she did programming. And then finally stepping into programming myself, thank God I studied with those three experts, uh, to be able to do it.
Because it's a big big job. And it's interesting. It's an interesting job because again, it's quite curatorial. I mean, I know that Folk Alliance is all about the showcases. I get it. But also when you're programming the panels, it's actually all about the panels to you. And so there is a really strong curatorial aspect to that, which I took very seriously. And I think in my tenure, the focus really for me was on community building and equity. as soon as the pandemic started, like, you know, things really shifted. And the discussion in the States... around anti Black racism and anti Black racism within the folk music community.
The ways in which we failed the community of New Orleans, in particular Black culture bearers in New Orleans when we took our conference there. and the reparations in my estimation that needed to be made for that slight really informed how I wanted to program whose Ideas I wanted to lift up and take from idea to actuality and who's, I was like, maybe 2023, like love that idea. Great idea.
[00:28:30] Rosalyn: There was a huge, Black Music Summit at Folk Alliance.
[00:28:34] Treasa: Black American Music Summit. BAMS. I love an acronym.
[00:28:37] Rosalyn: so was that, was that part of your programming?
[00:28:39] Treasa: So a lot of my programming, a lot of magic that I have been credited for has been wrongly credited because mainly what I do is be like, that's an amazing idea. Let's do it. Let me get this registry of charities started. Let me call some folks. What do you need? Let me get that for you. Let me, let me, what, you've been forgotten?
Let me do that. So, it was actually Lily Lewis's idea, and Lily came to us in, just after the murder of George Floyd, to suggest that we should have, a program within Folk Alliance called Committing to Conversation, in which we had small scale discussions of, racial injustice and racial inequity within the folk music community, with people in the folk community, facilitated by folks in the folk community, to start to really talk about difficult things together and to practice talking about hard things together.
And, at that time, I um, I was starting to put together what would become the Centering Disability in the Music Industry Summit. And that was based on our inability to get that to really happen in 2020 in New Orleans. because big difficult conversations always should start first. Not be the last thing you put in place. And this is something that I've learned a lot.
It's like, when you're populating a panel or a festival line up. Listen to me again, festival directors. Uh, but you're doing a good job in Canada. Nevermind. You actually want to start with like, who has never been on the stage? Who is underrepresented? What groups of folks are underrepresented on the stage?
Put them in first. Then you will not run out of time or run into people not being available or not trusting you. And so we started that program committed to conversation in June. It ran a year and a half every two weeks. And then every month we had conversations, six people and a facilitator and I went to every single one of them except three, did a lot of crying, did a lot of reckoning. Out of that came a continuing conversation out of that. And so early in that, when I was talking with Lily about the beginnings of putting together the disability summit, she was like, we should do a black American music summit. And I was like, done, And I did not have the authority to say that, like I will talk to Angus, but it's, it's a done deal.
Let's go. And so it took a year and a half to really put that together. And my role in putting that together was really like, this is the money we need. This is the room we need. What do you need? You need a list of people. Great. You need them, what do you need? And then building panels around that to support that so that the conversation about Black experience within a The music industry, but within folk music was not only happening in a closed dorm room, which was the request of the summit organizers, but also was happening multiple times throughout the conference and other discussions so that it really felt like, and, you know, Lily, actually, I want to say that it.
For her, the idea came when she felt in Montreal, the power of the international indigenous music summit that happened on a similar model. This is an idea that was brought to Folk Alliance by Shoshona. And, um, it was really Folk Alliance's job to do the lifting and not the dreaming was to be like, what's the dream? Let's make it happen. What do you need? Here's how we'll do it. And so I'm, I'm excited to see what's coming next at Folk Alliance. there's been a couple of ideas come down the pipeline that I'd like to see happen, but it's going to be a surprise for me too, folks. I don't know, not on the slack anymore. Don't have the intel.
[00:32:30] Rosalyn: it's exciting to hear about, the ways that you've facilitated those, projects and those, dreams to happen, and then to see the legacy of them too, like the, International Indigenous Music Summit had their, standalone conference this year, and it was neat to, acknowledge that it had first taken place at, that Folk Alliance and cool that, uh, that you're a part of that story.
[00:32:49] Treasa: Yeah, I mean, really quite sideways to it. In a way, like, that was really Aengus’ baby, the Indigenous Music Summit, both years, like, in Montreal and in New Orleans. That was mainly Aengus that was doing that. And then the Disability Summit, I would say, was the first one for me where I was really, like, worked hard on it.
And it's such an area where, I mean, it's pretty sad. Like, music industry, we are so far behind the theater and dance people in this.
We need to get our act together. Because, why? Disability is the one club that you can just become a part of. All of a sudden…
[00:33:30] Rosalyn: hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:33:31] Treasa: So many more people are living with disability and its attendant limitations and challenges than we are aware of. It's not that hard! And if anybody's going to really do it, like people should do it first. Come on. No, I really think we need to be having that conversation in Canada. And, uh, perhaps I shall say to you, Rosalyn, but not this year, but perhaps next year, we should consider what might happen at Folk Music Ontario around a many convening around this discussion, a suite of conversations around what we've done, not just one panel, like a spring. Some action points, calls, calls to action.
Maybe you've already done it and I'm just ignorant of that, but
[00:34:22] Rosalyn: Oh, that's a, it's a wonderful thing to, bring up and I, very much welcome getting that conversation, started because it is like a very interesting, looking through the lens as well of like Ontario and what Ontario specifically, has done to make places more accessible.
There was a huge push for, for accessible venues that all venues had to be accessible I think by 2025. I don't know if that goal's going to be met with the rate that things are going and, so yeah, maybe it's maybe 2024 is a very timely conversation.
[00:34:56] Treasa: Yeah, and there's so many points of access there too, right? Like, there's like, What's the disability representation on your boards? What's the disability representation in your volunteer core? And how do you make that volunteering piece, like, enticing?
[00:35:12] Rosalyn: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:13] Treasa: it's beyond like ramps. Like, what do your reg forms look like? What about service animals? What about, neurodivergence? And stimulus. What about like, there's so, there's so many points. Uh, I think that's probably why people become overwhelmed. People in positions of organizing become overwhelmed because where do you even, like, once you're like, I'm committed to the, the, it's a never ending, it's Sisyphean,
[00:35:40] Rosalyn: yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:35:41] Treasa: Also its people.
[00:35:44] Rosalyn: It's an interesting point and I, I think it, where do you start? I mean, you just start.
[00:35:49] Treasa: That's it. That's it. Where do you start? You just start.
[00:35:53] Rosalyn: and we're, talking about that with, with our, climate action this year and, you know, just kind of a similar thing where sometimes when you start digging down as well, we could also, well, we could also do this.
We could also do this. Why don't we just. Pick one. Start there. And then keep going. There's always ways that we'll be able to improve. That's great.
[00:36:14] Treasa: Well, I'm just like any. Any practice, the more you do it, the more limber you become and the easier it is to do the next thing and the next thing or the more inspiring it is for people to come on board when there's a little bit of a momentum. No one really wants to push that rock by themselves from the bottom, but when you're like halfway up and someone's shooting it on the iPhone, you're going to see a lot more people volunteering to help you get it up that last bit.
[00:36:41] Rosalyn: Yeah. Well, actually, that's, that's a nice, metaphor because I, I wanted to ask speaking of, trying to push rocks by yourself, are there any like folks that you wanted to shout out that have, been, uh, fellow rock pushers that have helped you, get places you're going or just some, some comrades that have been there along the way? On your community building journey?
[00:37:01] Treasa: I'd like to shout out, I mean, there's so many people and there's people that I've already mentioned in this conversation, um, Aengus, Trevor, Janice Jo Lee, I'm in constant admiration, all the participants of the DAP program and in particular the participants of DAP who stayed aboard and there was a lot when I first came aboard with DAP, there was no internal relationship DAP, structure within which former participants, youth participants were then volunteering, building programming, running workshops, running the private show, get like, they did so much.
They were such willing community builders. They wanted more. Like, there was a certain subgroup of that, that every, and every year, new folks who wanted more than just that experience. Every year there were people who were like, thank you for the experience and goodbye forever. But I'd like to thank Brandon Phelan and Liv Kozola, John Muirhead. Sarah Goujon, Cassidy Houston, Greg Smith, Anita Kozola, Sam Beer, who did not participate in the program, but might as well have, uh, because he's been around so much. I know I'm forgetting people, Kit Paulson, people who you can see in the photos, they, the uh, year over year how the, the cohort gets bigger and bigger, all the mentors, and also I think I'd like to thank people within our community who trusted me enough to have conversations with me about the damage.
That our community was doing our community was doing damage because our community was operating in a default perspective. So I can remember very, very clearly a conversation that I had with Kaya Cater in Kansas City at the 2018 conference. That same year I had a deep conversation with Brian Kobayakawa about the racism. And the lack of inclusion within our community. And those really, really fired me up. I think actually with Brian, it might've been 2017. I think it was before I was even on staff. Uh, but it's really stuck with me, him of all people, Creaky Tree String Quartet, like every frigging band in the whole place being like, I have never felt like I belonged here.
And I was like, Oh my God, what? Like, and I, that was such a fundamental shift for me.
It made me understand how much more there was for me to do within our community. Leonard Sumner, he definitely was not shy about critiquing the DAAP program, actually, and me personally. And, um, it was really hard to take, but it really, Was a sign of respect actually, and I feel very, very, very grateful.
Rachel Barreca, she had a couple of real hard conversations with me. So I think anyone who wants to have a hard conversation with me, I invite it. and I'm grateful for those opportunities to deepen the dialogue and hone the vision for a better community that is. thematically at the heart of so much folk music.
[00:40:29] Rosalyn: That's such a great lesson, To pull from that. I, in turn, like, at some point wanted to mention just thanks to you for having, I feel like you've had conversations with me too, or at least been like, why'd you do that? I saw that panel that got put together. What are you doing?
and, uh, yeah, I always,
[00:40:50] Treasa: Conflict is my love language. No, I'm just kidding. But that is, like, if I'm doing that to you, also please know that that's because I respect you. I would never say anything if I didn't.
[00:40:59] Rosalyn: And in turn, I know that I have thrown things your way every once in a while. Because I'm like, this is a person that is just, in my mind, the most capable human of doing anything. So, that's like half of, like, a compliment and an apology in one. No, like,
[00:41:17] Treasa: A complimentary.
[00:41:18] Rosalyn: you for, complipology. Thank you for having my back, And... there are not many people that I throw into a room of festival organizers and programmers and be like, Hey Treasa, can you, can you just moderate this thing? I'll tell you what it's about later. So yes, thank you. I'm sorry.
And, I'm wondering if we can maybe speak directly right now to those folks that are coming into the room you know, just like a little piece of advice or just, a little message for, folks that are new to this community or, or people that are just starting out in their, career in, in folk music or in music in general or in creative passions.
[00:42:00] Treasa: No pressure.
Yeah, for those folks who are coming to folk music, I would say the community and the industry are not the same thing and you can give your mind and your energy to the industry and even arguably your body because it sure is tiring touring so do it while you can. But save your heart for the community and never forget that it's the community that has your heart.
It, like, it will hold it for you. And it doesn't look like what you think or what the industry thinks a career looks like. you belong in our community just because you are a person. And ambition is great, it's fine, it's good. But love is the key to a life well lived. And you will find that in the most beautiful and surprising places. And if you don't feel like you're finding love or belonging in our community, please find me. I will do my best to hold your hand and help you find me or another friend. I feel like I'm seeing in my mind's eye the block parent sign
You know the block parent sign from the 70s and 80s that was in people's windows? Where like you could knock on that door and that person would help you find your parents. so that would be my advice and my, my conference advice, everyone, and I know there's not really private showcases this year, but there are off campus spotlight, I don't know what y'all are calling them, is when you walk into that room and there's like two people there, stay.
One time on the weekend, stay for the whole set where there's two people. That is your act of service to the community and the gifts you give are the gifts you receive.
[00:44:02] Rosalyn: Those are incredible words and beautiful nuggets of advice. Thank you so much, Treasa, and, I cannot think of a more deserving, beautiful human to be honored with the, uh, inaugural, Estelle Klein Community Builder Award. Thank you, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.
[00:44:22] Treasa: Well, thank you. It was such a pleasure talking at you for one hour.
Thanks Rosalyn.