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The mission of Prevent Blindness Texas is to prevent blindness and preserve sight. We are leaders and change agents in the eye health space here to empower you!
Hey, it's your eye health experts, Prevent Blindness Texas, and welcome to Eyespiring, a conversation about all things vision and life. Hi, and welcome to Eyespiring. I'm Heather Patrick, your host and CEO of Prevent Blindness Texas. Excited about today's conversation with Brooke Campbell about all about volunteer managing, disaster recovery, funding, and all the other things about nonprofit life. Let me tell you a little bit about PBT.
Heather Patrick:We are a statewide organization that connects people to care and really to hope about being able to capture, prevent their vision loss and move forward in healthcare in the eye care continuum. With that, I'm gonna turn it over to Brooke, let her talk a little bit about herself, but before I do, I just wanna give a little bit of background. She serves as the Director of Community Outreach and Disaster Recovery at the United Way of Greater Houston where she plays a pivotal role in the Greater Houston Disaster Alliance, a philanthropic partnership between United Way of Greater Houston and the Greater Houston Community Foundation. In this capacity she co leads nonprofit engagement strategies, disaster recovery planning, and coordinated grant making efforts that strengthen the region's ability to respond rapidly and effectively when disaster strikes.
Heather Patrick:But how I got to meet her was years ago around volunteer management and providing insight and guidance to Volunteer Houston. So with that, I'm gonna turn it over to you Brooke and tell us a little more about you. And first I wanna know, what does CMP stand for?
Brooke Campbell:CMP, Certified Nonprofit Professional. Okay. Yeah, I get that a lot. It also though gets confused within nursing credentials, so I'm always happy to explain when anyone asks.
Heather Patrick:And then CVA?
Brooke Campbell:CVA, Certified Volunteer Administrator, which is one I am most proud of. I mean, proud of both. And encourage anyone who's ever interested to look into them because I think it just brings more credibility to the work that we do in the nonprofit sector.
Heather Patrick:Yep, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that, a little more about that CBA in a little bit.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah, so a little bit about me. I mean, you captured quite a bit of it, but lifelong nonprofit professional. I've been in Houston for in Houston, raised on and off in Houston. So Houston is very near and dear to my heart, as is the nonprofit sector. I don't know that I ever thought in my early years that I wanted to work for a nonprofit, but I wouldn't ever leave the sector, now that I'm here and been here for a couple of decades.
Brooke Campbell:And I was thinking on my drive in this morning, I'm excited to talk about all the things, as you said, because my path has been it makes a lot of sense to me, but to anyone who's maybe looking on paper, the connections, the path that I took, it's just played out in a beautiful way. And I think it could be a normal path for anyone else.
Heather Patrick:It's funny because I think when you listen to several of the episodes, especially where there have been nonprofit executives, I think we would all say the same thing. I didn't graduate college thinking I'm going go work for a nonprofit. I graduated a business degree. I fully expected to be in business. I was in business.
Heather Patrick:But I think you're right. There is this path that you navigate meanders all over the place. But when you look back, you can kind of see these threads that connect you and you understand what your purpose.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Right? Very much so.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. All right. We're gonna ask, we're gonna get to know you questions. Okay.
Brooke Campbell:All Let's do it.
Heather Patrick:All right. You build a career around community service, volunteer management, and disaster recovery. What first inspired you to get into this work? So how'd you jump on the path?
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. So there are two, I think, core kind of one core memory, one core experience. I'll say it like So in college, I didn't know what I was doing. I actually quit after three years to kind of explore, take a gap year.
Brooke Campbell:That's when I served in AmeriCorps. But I have this very specific moment talking to my dad in his driveway about, what are you gonna do with the rest of your life, Brooke? But he said the same, oh, I'm gonna botch this, but what's the saying, You don't have to work a day in your life if you love Something what you along those lines.
Brooke Campbell:And at that time, summer, I was also working at a summer camp, a Girl Scout summer camp out in California. And I actually ended up working at that summer camp because of the Disney Channel. There was a show called Bug Juice that was all about they would follow these campers and camp counselors around. I was like, I want to do that. But I ended up working at that same summer camp for seven summers.
Brooke Campbell:Girl Scouts is a nonprofit, kind of got into that space. And so I ended up majoring in recreational administration knowing that I wanted to work with youth. And so my first real job out of college was actually for communities and schools, national nonprofit. Bounced from there to Boy Scouts of America, which is now Scouting America, I think. And I learned a lot working for a national organization at the national Office and ended up moving to Houston 2019, right before the pandemic, which is then where you and I connected.
Brooke Campbell:Was director of Volunteer Houston for a while. Then Volunteer Houston is all about volunteerism and was totally into that. But what I didn't realize when I took that job was how engaged Volunteer Houston was in disaster response. And that's where I kind of cut my teeth, guess you could say. Is that the saying?
Brooke Campbell:I'm not a sayings person. You can tell. And so that bridged the gap for me then to move over to United Way of Houston where I'm supporting the disaster alliance now. Yeah, awesome. Awesome.
Heather Patrick:Alright, so you started with AmeriCorps. How did that experience shape you? And ultimately shaped your direction, I would assume, right? So talk about that experience specifically. Where did you go?
Brooke Campbell:Okay, so AmeriCorps NCCC is the program, It's one of the two national level AmeriCorps programs that exist. The other is Vista. But NCCC is National Civilian Community Corps. And in that program, it's designed where you serve for ten months on a team, the same team of we had 10 people on our team. And you travel the country, a region of the country.
Brooke Campbell:We served the Southeast Region doing service projects for different nonprofits. Wow. Yeah, it was I'll just tell you real quick. Let me see if I can remember. Our first project was actually tutoring middle schoolers.
Heather Patrick:And you stayed after that, and this says a lot about you.
Brooke Campbell:Oh my gosh, the stories though, the stories are just so cool. Anyway, so we did that was our first project. Our second project was invasive plant removal at St. Sebastian Inlet on the Coast of Florida, East Coast Of Florida. And then we framed and roofed homes for organization in the Appalachian Mountains in Eastern Kentucky.
Brooke Campbell:Wow. It's an organization much like Habitat for Humanity, but it's local to that area. And there was a moment during that project where it was snowing and we were like putting up framing a home. And I remember just looking around and my teammate looked at me and was like, when could you ever say that you were framing a house while it was snowing in the Appalachian Appalachian Mountains. It's just so cool.
Brooke Campbell:Okay. And then so then we renovated a homeless shelter in Downtown Atlanta. Was that our last project? Anyway, I think that was all of them. But through all of that, it was actually at that last project, you know, ten months living, sleeping, eating, working, playing, all the things with the same people.
Brooke Campbell:It was an experience. So these are my lifelong friends. But if you're familiar with the stages of group development, the forming, storming, norming Yep. I think I forgot a phase in there. We went through that.
Brooke Campbell:Very much went through that. But that last project, we had there's a part of me that's embarrassed to talk about this, but I'll talk about it because it's a very valuable lesson to me that I still think about decades later. That we had a problem that wasn't really a problem in retrospect with one of our team members and throughout the entire course. And that last project in Atlanta, we were just out having dinner one night and one of my teammates said, I want to understand why this is such a big deal to you guys. Like, this is the way she is.
Brooke Campbell:Just get used to it.
Heather Patrick:Just deal with it.
Brooke Campbell:Deal with Yes. Honestly, I remember that now because people are we're each our own person and you have to learn to work with people where they are as they are. And your own experience will be so much better for that.
Brooke Campbell:So that's one of the just getting to know so many different nonprofits, but then just the life lessons that you learn. I would do it over and over again. I wish there were some days where I wish I could.
Heather Patrick:I think I'm too old now, but I wish I could do it again. That's an amazing experience. And what great people insight early on. Yes. Yep.
Heather Patrick:That's great. All right. For people who may not be familiar with your role, what does a typical day look like for
Brooke Campbell:Oh my gosh. These days are I mean, you know, so no day is the same. You hear that all the time, but it's, you know, from event planning to depending on whether or not there's a disaster. We're either updating all of our templates and trainings, which is so exciting. It's really not.
Brooke Campbell:But when the disaster strikes, we are ready. So it's a little bit of well, it's a lot of relationship building, I think. And that's what is so key to any community being ready for a disaster.
Heather Patrick:I bet we'll talk about that a little bit. Yeah, we will.
Brooke Campbell:We'll circle back to that one.
Heather Patrick:So is there anything like this alliance somewhere else in the nation? And have you learned from each other?
Brooke Campbell:Oh, so we started out saying no, that there is when I first started, right? So I've been here two and a half years. The disaster alliance was launched in 2023. And you know, colleagues before I was onboarded were saying that there wasn't another partnership like this. I think now we would say there are very similar partnerships, but a partnership like this will look very different in any community.
Brooke Campbell:However, I will say that to take two powerhouses, fundraising powerhouses like a United Way and a community foundation in a large metro area and have them work together is innovative. Maybe that's the unique part, you know, I think.
Heather Patrick:Unusual?
Brooke Campbell:Unusual, yes. Yeah. But we're, but it's working so well.
Heather Patrick:It's a great blueprint.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. It really is a great blueprint. Yeah.
Heather Patrick:So in between disasters, so like right now we, we are getting ready to move into I mean it's a couple months out but we will go into everybody lovingly refers to we're going into hurricane season June 1 right everybody knows it that lives here. So in in your mind and for your team you know are there specific things that you guys do to get ready for that? Or is it really kind of just, you know, we are just hounding on, does it matter really the disaster? It is really the systems in place to help us get there is a little bit of both.
Brooke Campbell:Well, I think you nailed it. It's the having the systems in place for sure.
Brooke Campbell:You know, we have to do some internal again, updating the templates. It's so boring. It's not exciting, but we take it seriously because we learned. In 2023 we launched, in 2024 we were already activating two disaster recovery funds. And had we not gone through that process, don't think it would have been as smooth as it was for the first time around. I don't know. Does that answer your question?
Heather Patrick:Kind of like building muscle memory, You go to practice every day and nobody really loves practice, but you understand that the better you practice, the better you play and especially in those critical moments. Right? Because you don't have to think about it.
Heather Patrick:It's just there, you know what to do. So that's, you're building muscle memory for the communities you're serving. Right? So that when disaster happens, they know exactly what to do.
Brooke Campbell:Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Heather Patrick:Houston has faced its share of disasters, yes, over the years. What stands out to you about this community in particular and how it comes together in difficult times?
Brooke Campbell:Because it does. It does over and over and it will over and over. I hear so many community leaders say, you know, Houston collaborates well. Houston's strong. Houston does it right.
Brooke Campbell:And when I first started hearing that, I was like, Yeah, everybody says that. Every community says that about themselves. But being a part of it, it really is so true. And I think it's because of those experiences where because there have been so many disasters where you can't do it on your own as an individual. You can't do it on your own as a nonprofit.
Brooke Campbell:You can't do it on your own as a community leader. We get more done when we work together. And that looks different year to year how we work together. It looks different in every corner of just this city alone, you know? But as long as we're working together, I think that's and again, in those blue sky days, it's the building the relationships that pays off.
Brooke Campbell:That's the readiness. Who do you have the relationship with that you can pick up the phone and call when you know what happens.
Heather Patrick:If you could spend a free weekend completely unplugged, what would that look like for you?
Brooke Campbell:Well, actually my husband and I do this on an annual basis at least, if not more. There's the Big Thicket National Preserve in East, East, Deep East Texas. There's a cabin that we rent, and there is no Internet out there.
Heather Patrick:I'd love that.
Brooke Campbell:There's no Wi Fi out there. Or or wait. What is the so there's no Internet. There's no Wi Fi. I mean, your cell phone doesn't work. There's no connection at all.
Heather Patrick:Wow.
Brooke Campbell:Just a little scary, honestly, because you get so used to dependent on it, but it's also nice. It's on this private little pond lake, and it's a cabin with a flushing toilet. You know? We can't do the tent camping thing anymore long as there's AC heat and plumbing.
Heather Patrick:Right.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. We just go out for the weekend and
Heather Patrick:Unplug.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah.
Heather Patrick:Literally.
Brooke Campbell:Not talk to anyone. Exactly.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. That sounds awesome. Yeah. So do you read? Do you like to read?
Heather Patrick:Yeah. Are you reading anything good right
Brooke Campbell:Oh, I'm gonna it's The Court of
Heather Patrick:Thorns and Roses.
Brooke Campbell:Yes. Went through oh man, I have not been a reader in a long time. Have we talked about this?
Heather Patrick:No.
Brooke Campbell:Okay, here's the story. I love to read, but when I would pick up a book over the last several years, I just couldn't get into it. Even if it was a good book, couldn't stay focused. I asked for Prevagen for Christmas this year. Do you know Prevagen?
Brooke Campbell:No. It's like this brain supplement I tell you 100% yes. Interesting. Yeah, it started taking January, and I guess it was like early February I started reading this series, The Court of Thorns and Roses or whatever. And so I'm on the very last book.
Heather Patrick:Oh, yeah. It's good. It's a good series.
Brooke Campbell:It just started. Yeah. So
Heather Patrick:It's a good series. Excellent. Alright so that's, move a little bit about let's talk about what it actually takes to prepare communities. What does disaster readiness really look like especially for a community like Houston or even Harris County because typically it is not just Houston when these disasters come in it is Harris County and the surrounding counties. So what does it look like for Harris County?
Heather Patrick:Then how do you also work with the surrounding counties? Because each county I'm sure has their own plan and they execute at their own way, right? And so when it is across counties, you know, what does that look like?
Brooke Campbell:I don't know that we have fully cracked that nut yet because there are so many different jurisdictions, like you're saying, between the cities and the counties. Harris County, I think has 33 cities, which is always a surprising number to me when I hear that. Because to me Harris County is Houston, but very much there are other cities Well,
Heather Patrick:there's all unincorporated spaces too. Like I live in an unincorporated space. So there's that kind of interesting facet to it as well.
Brooke Campbell:Yes. You know, said it a minute ago, but I really do think it comes down to the relationships.
Brooke Campbell:And so for an individual or a household, that's the relationships with your neighbors, which I mean, I'm guilty of really knowing my neighbors. My husband's really good at that, so I'm glad he's got that under control. But, at business level, it's how are you taking care of your employees? Specifically with nonprofits, it's how are we collaborating?
Brooke Campbell:And then the other thing that I think is just so cool is how much our governmental jurisdictions rely on the nonprofit sector to also be prepared to fill gaps that government resources cannot fill after a disaster strikes. And it's year round. I say these things, I'm like, should I be saying this? Because everybody knows this already. But it can't stop.
Brooke Campbell:We all have disaster fatigue, I think, in this region. It's a real thing, but it takes that extra effort to, if you're not preparing yourself, prepare your neighbors, prepare your elderly family members. It's just it has to happen with intention because it's something that we can so easily just get to it when I get to it. Then it's here. Yeah.
Brooke Campbell:Exactly. Yeah.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. Do you think on that fatigue component, I think not only is fatigue, but I also think there is some serious stress disorders related related to the weather that now comes in and we kind of joke about it. But truly, I think if you've been through everything that has happened in this area and I have been here since Hurricane Alicia happened, disaster that has happened since then, I have been in Houston for, or in Harris County. And so we often, like the team and I are like, we really, you know, I'm the weather person. Like I send notes out that say, hey, be weather aware.
Heather Patrick:This is, you know, I. Yeah. I, when I worked earlier in my career, I worked off at Fountain View and we got flooded in. Storm came in. The garage got flooded.
Heather Patrick:We couldn't get out. We were there for like ten hours at the office just sitting there in the conference room watching it and there was nothing we could do. And so it really is when you talk about being prepared, it's really paying attention to and I know that sometimes it gets hyped up and then you know it doesn't happen. It's not as bad as people think and then the next one is even worse than what we thought. So you know that's also how do you manage that communication to really help people understand.
Heather Patrick:Right. It is so critical to walk through, even if you have like a five or 10 item checklist of just make sure these things are done, like be prepared in this way.
Brooke Campbell:Well, so kudos to you. Well also just my heart goes out to you and to anyone who has been I have not been through any of these major disasters. I was stuck in Las Vegas for Hurricane Barrel.
Heather Patrick:I know. I was here for that.
Brooke Campbell:Anyway, it would Say the question again.
Heather Patrick:So how you help communicate out to nonprofits, to businesses, to individuals? Are lots of times I think it gets hyped up, right? And then it's not as bad as they think. And then that kind of sets the course for everybody like, it's not going to be that bad.
Heather Patrick:And then the next one is even worse than what you think, right? And so how do you help? What's the message to people?
Brooke Campbell:That's such a great question that I don't know that we have a solid answer for that other than the message itself is always the same, right? There are a million checklists out there. There are a million kits out there, preparedness kits. But it's taking the extra time and the extra step. You know, from our perspective with the disaster alliance, we send messages to our nonprofit partners to hear the resources, share with your I always like to include share with not only your clients, but also your staff, your volunteers, your board members, because we're all going to be impacted potentially in some form or fashion.
Brooke Campbell:I wish there was I don't know. But you've touched on something else, and that's the mental health side. It is very real. And there are resources for that trauma. There's a national disaster hotline for survivors specifically who are just in that mental space that's not good.
Brooke Campbell:But I don't know that we really highlight that as a need or a resource. The resources exist, and we do talk about it. But what does this system coordination look like for that? Connecting those resources to those people and just educating the community. I think that's an area where you can probably do some more work as a region.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Good. Can I also just tell you too, one of the other things I've learned? You know, we talk a lot about disasters, thinking of the natural hazards. And you might remember the mass shooting that was at Santa Fe High School just South of Houston several years ago.
Brooke Campbell:That community still has a resource center, a physical location that is there to support not just the families of those who were physically injured, but all of the students that maybe weren't physically injured, but that is a traumatic experience to witness or to be so close to. But that community still has a resource center to provide support. How many years later? I mean, how many years was that? Don't remember exactly what year, but
Heather Patrick:I know my kids were in high school.
Brooke Campbell:Really? Yeah. Yeah. So going on maybe ten ish years? Close to?
Heather Patrick:Maybe not that long ago. Okay. But I think that says a lot because it's not just one and done, right? Disaster, the results of disaster, any type of disaster can stay with you, right? Not only the physical components of it, but just the stress that comes with it.
Heather Patrick:The tornado that happened in November on the North Side Of Houston was through a neighborhood that my daughter's best friend lives in. It was actually her house was one of the houses that was damaged significantly. And they're still, I mean, it's March. They don't have a roof. They just got the fence fixed.
Heather Patrick:Mildew is now covering the garage and the walls because the roof they can't get the roof fixed yet and it's so it's it's not just the day of that it is the ongoing components and I think that's an important point too and I think it all goes back to the individual, the community, the government and is there, how do we talk about, I mean I equate it kind of to our process. Here's phase one, here's phase two, here's phase three, here's what you can expect, here's how you navigate it, right? Because I think people always come back to you, I just don't know what to do next. And that stress is overwhelming. And so and I think from a nonprofit, you know, we I had been here a month in this role when Hurricane Harvey struck.
Heather Patrick:And just having to navigate that as a leader, I had never done anything like that before. I mean, I wasn't prepared in any way. And we ended up being at the convention center and doing screenings and partnership, with several, organizations. But that was something we had. I mean, we never talked about that.
Heather Patrick:We never planned for that. Right. But it really highlighted and I think goes back to the conversations that you and I had of the things that people never think about in a disaster of, if I lose my glasses, I can't do anything, If I don't have my, I mean, I am someone who without my glasses or contacts, I cannot see. It's not just a look, I can't see the big E. I can not see.
Heather Patrick:I would not be able to that space if I did not have my contacts or glasses. And so, you know, thinking through that people that have, you know, eye issues or eye disease and they have to leave their medication behind. And so it's really for me, it was no pun intended, but eye opening of there is a space for vision health even in disaster that we never thought of before. And now it is something we talk about often of how do we help our clients? What would that look like if disaster comes not only for our organization, like for our team, what does that look like?
Heather Patrick:Who calls who? How do we manage if something happens to the building? But also how do we support our clients? But it is because of that experience that, you know, that kind of conversation came to fruition.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Oh, that just makes me my to do list just got long.
Heather Patrick:Sorry.
Brooke Campbell:Because I feel like this is
Brooke Campbell:You're absolutely right. When I think about I'm gonna ask, maybe put you on the spot for
Heather Patrick:Sure.
Brooke Campbell:A because when I think about the number of people who have vision challenges to some degree or another, I have to imagine it's a pretty large percentage of the population.
Heather Patrick:Yes, absolutely.
Brooke Campbell:And why isn't that part of our disaster preparedness messaging? I'm making a mental note.
Heather Patrick:It's a great question. Should be.
Brooke Campbell:We're editing our household disaster preparedness plan right now and we can add something.
Heather Patrick:Yeah, because we talk about medications, but we don't talk about your contacts, your contact solution, your glasses. I mean, I put my, when I go to bed at night, I put my glasses in the exact same spot every night. So if I wake up and something happens in the middle of the night, I know exactly where they are. I mean, that's for me, when I think about, you know, if I had to, you know, happened deep in the middle of the night, I don't want to have to be looking around for, I want to be able to go. I want to know exactly what I'm doing.
Heather Patrick:And so I think it is, but I often feel like we miss the opportunity to really help people understand and break down that barrier of here's what it looks like immediately. Here's what, you know, 90 out can look for you. Or these are the steps and for nonprofits too. And I know that's part of what the training and resources look like for you. So talk a little bit about that.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Yeah. So we are very focused on our nonprofit partners, right? They in a way, in a sense, are our clients, right? We have so much faith and trust, of course, in all of our nonprofit partners to be those direct service providers.
Brooke Campbell:That is not our role. So we want to do everything we can to help nonprofits be prepared as an organization. So we will Yeah. We host quarterly convenings throughout the year to focus on any piece of disaster preparedness. We brought in an expert on continuity planning well, I don't know when that was, but recently to help organizations.
Brooke Campbell:If nothing else, just pause and take a moment to refresh your continuity plan because chances are you already have one. It already exists. But how many new staff members do you have and how many of them have seen that plan and understand what to do with it and what their role in that continuity plan is. Yeah, so we're very focused on supporting helping nonprofits build that muscle, disaster preparedness muscle, not only for themselves, their employees, but for their clients. And then we are very focused on the most vulnerable populations.
Brooke Campbell:I think some of the hardest populations to reach are those that don't speak English as a first language or who are not connected. So they're part of that digital divide that we talk about. And so what do we we're actually launching a working group here in the next few weeks to address that disaster communications. And it'll be interesting what comes out of that working group to see what sort of processes need to be in place and what sort of who are the key players that have the trust of those communities that are so hard to reach. You know, how do we partner with them?
Brooke Campbell:Yeah, it's never ending.
Heather Patrick:And it's never ending. I would agree with that. What other cities do it well? Have you learned from those lessons or, you know, do you talk to other cities and how they're doing disaster relief and being prepared? What does that look like?
Brooke Campbell:I think that I don't know. I think we hear a lot of, unfortunately, after some of these most recent disasters, like the wildfires in LA. Was it Hurricane Helene on the East Coast? Was did Helene hit Florida and North Carolina? Because I think
Heather Patrick:It went up that way. Yes.
Brooke Campbell:We hear stories from those communities on what they're doing now as a kind of an enlightening moment for us. You know, we should be thinking about that or we can do that here. One of the thoughts crossed my mind a few moments ago, but I think we can be prepared. We can have our plan in place again as an individual, as a household, as a business, an organization, but also be prepared to totally pivot away from that plan.
Heather Patrick:Be planned, but also be prepared to throw it out the window and totally be inactive. Welcome to the nonprofit world every single day.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Resources in a community change. Absolutely. So what we had after and for storm A, we wouldn't have for disaster B, you know, which again just goes back to why those relationships are the most important thing anyone can do. Because you can pick up the phone, call a neighbor, call a friend, call your colleague at any other organization or across sectors.
Brooke Campbell:Right? It's not just nonprofit. It's not just government.
Heather Patrick:So let's talk a little bit about when something happens, how do you kind of help get everyone going in the same direction? What needs to happen in, you know, lessons learned or best practice, you know, what does that look like to get everybody going in the same direction as fast as possible?
Brooke Campbell:Yeah, it starts during blue sky days. That is not possible if you're not doing work in blue sky days. And so that goes back to our convenings here locally. We'll bring our partners together. So they get to know each other, but we're also introducing them to Connective, our system coordination partner, because part of what makes us or puts all of us in a position to respond rapidly and effectively is to have these systems in place and be sure that people are familiar with them and how they work.
Brooke Campbell:So the technology that Connective brings to the table, it's not just technology. They bring a very human centered purpose and focus to everything they do. That's their team members and how they work with nonprofits and across sectors is just beautiful, and we are so lucky to have them here. So it's not just that technology, it's also understanding where the gaps are in recovery. So literally which zip codes don't have disaster services provided to them historically, right?
Brooke Campbell:Or there are not nonprofits. Where are there not nonprofits providing services to a certain zip code? What populations, what vulnerabilities historically haven't received services. So identifying those gaps in blue sky days helps us put strategies and processes and partnerships in place to activate and mobilize when a disaster does strike.
Heather Patrick:Yeah, I love that. I love that.
Heather Patrick:All right, so let's talk a little bit about volunteer management.
Brooke Campbell:Personal passion. Yeah.
Heather Patrick:So we can start in disaster preparedness and recovery, then move into just across the board volunteer management. But what does it take to manage volunteers during a disaster or disaster recovery? What does that look like?
Brooke Campbell:Oh gosh, man, it takes a lot of trust. And I think that trust and communication. And why do you say trust? Trust because you can't do it all. All right.
Brooke Campbell:You have to prepare people for a role in whatever that volunteer role is, train them as best you can and then set them free. But you empower them in a way where and that's where communication comes in, I think that you're checking in, you're supporting them because some of them, just as a quick tangent, some volunteers are not prepared for what they see and experience during after disasters. And we have to take care of our volunteers just as much as we do direct survivors of disaster. But yeah, so it's that trust and communication to prepare them, train them, orient them, set them free and then get all that information back, you know? And I remember when I was at Volunteer Houston and we were preparing volunteers in different organizations, I remember telling people it is not possible to over communicate.
Brooke Campbell:Absolutely. To tell us everything. It doesn't matter how detailed or repetitive you think it might be. You know, I think
Heather Patrick:iteration is the key.
Brooke Campbell:Iteration is the key.
Heather Patrick:Love that. Yeah.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. Because what you hear the first time, you may hear the rest of it the second time or the third time, right? Because a lot of times we pick up one or two things and that's what we hone in on, even if there's five other things that we need to be aware of. So iteration definitely is the key. So what do you think drives ultimately volunteer engagement?
Heather Patrick:Talk a little bit about how you assess and how you teach others to assess motivation, when it comes to volunteer management.
Brooke Campbell:Oh man, this is something that I think is hard to do, but it's so important to do. And that is the keyword that you said there was motivation there. Understanding what motivates an individual, especially in a volunteer role, can help us as volunteer administrators in some form or fashion to be sure that that person who happens to be a volunteer is in a role that fulfills them, that they're being recognized in a way that they actually want to be recognized. But it takes effort to understand what motivates one person, and that can feel very overwhelming when you're managing 500 or more volunteers. But for those who can figure out how to do that, it pays off in the long run.
Heather Patrick:There's definitely an art and a science, I think, to volunteer management, just like development, right? There are definitely key pieces of it that require a little bit of artistry to be able to really do it well. So when you have volunteers where motivation and interest align to what you're looking for too because part of the process is really understanding what the organization needs, right? So that is the ultimate, right? But what happens when you have that where interests and maybe skills or motivation don't align to what you need? How do you handle that?
Brooke Campbell:Oh, that's a I mean, I think it's as simple as can be as simple as a little one on one conversation. What's going on with you? What's working for you? What's not working for you? And my goal being, let's redirect position within the same organization, or it could be with a different organization.
Brooke Campbell:And that's still a win, right? Because I think as volunteer engagement professionals, we have a responsibility to help. It is about expanding, growing, supporting the organization's mission. It's also about supporting that individual, the volunteer, and matching them to that right role or and understanding why they might not be so satisfied is key to the overall success.
Heather Patrick:Agree. Totally agree. What do you think that what misconceptions are myths? You heard along the way about volunteers or volunteer management?
Brooke Campbell:Oh, I don't know where to go with What this myths have are out there? I'll say this. This bothers me to my core. But when someone says
Heather Patrick:Like confessions. Yeah.
Brooke Campbell:When someone says, Just ask a volunteer to do it, with that sense of, Oh, it's easy to do that. It is not easy to do that.
Heather Patrick:Kind of flippant, right? I just get them to do it.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah, it's not that. There's so much work that goes into a volunteer serving in a role before that volunteer ever shows up to actually serve in that role. I would almost argue there's more work that goes on the front end. Right? Yep. Oh, like I'm short circuiting because I don't know what to say.
Brooke Campbell:There are so many things
Heather Patrick:You can't fire a volunteer? True or false?
Brooke Campbell:Oh, false. Yes, you can. There's a right and a wrong way to do it,
Heather Patrick:yes. Or volunteers aren't worth it.
Brooke Campbell:Oh, don't. Don't hurt me like that.
Heather Patrick:But I'm sure you've heard that over the Absolutely. And what do you respond? How do you help them understand how important volunteers are?
Brooke Campbell:I think this comes down to understanding why they feel that way. Right? And personally, I have to remind myself I'm not going to be able to change their mind in one conversation. Right? Because I can get real passionate about that, you know?
Brooke Campbell:But yeah, I think I can understand why someone would think that because it does require a lot of resources. But when the energy and the resources are invested in a, I like to say, sophisticated way with intention, with real strategy, with forward thinking plans, it pays off. And I keep thinking about 2025 was such a hard year for nonprofits and a lot of organizations lost funding, which means they're losing staff. I'm just keep thinking in the back of my mind and I'd be interested to know what you think too. Are organizations good?
Brooke Campbell:Is this when nonprofits, generally speaking, start taking volunteers more seriously? Because you can do a lot with volunteers. You can get a lot done. And that's not to say that every organization does not take volunteers seriously.
Heather Patrick:You Well, I think there's a difference in taking them seriously and being committed to invest the resources to grow that human capacity. And so and you've heard me in my volunteer management class for me volunteers are human resource capital for organizations. Staff volunteers, right, managed a little bit differently but ultimately they are human resource capital and understanding how to invest and grow and help them find experiences that align with what they're looking for to me helps organizations reach and excel their potential because the more people that feel connected to your organization have a strategic role, intentional role to help you build and execute your mission, the more that organization just continues to flourish. But it does take investment in it. I think, you know, nonprofits don't always have the luxury of investment.
Heather Patrick:But I think it's kind of that catch 22. If you don't invest in it somewhere, then you're kind of always behind the wheel. Whereas, you know, for us, I mean, I think it really comes back to when we've added it to where staff is, you know, there's a staff position working directly with volunteers and that has been amazing. She made some easy changes but significant changes that have really helped our volunteers. And I think it is just those kinds of things.
Heather Patrick:Goes back to being intentional and strategic. I think that is one of the biggest takeaways when I, why I love teaching the class is because you have, most of them are new in their role. Maybe they've been there a year, but they haven't stopped to think about the bigger picture and really why are these people critical to our success as an organization. And so for me, I think now is a great time in the sector to take a step back and really think about we are resource constraints, right? What are those look like?
Heather Patrick:And is it possible? Can you close some of those gaps with the right volunteers? And I think that is now is a great time to ask those questions and really invest if you can, because I think it makes sense.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. I've started this. I've put together this this I don't know. I wouldn't call it we'll call it a workshop. It's not a course.
Brooke Campbell:The hidden cost of free volunteers and how to and leverage it's very tactical in that, it's let's stop and think what are the actual costs, not just staff time, but like a portion of, I mean, you might think I'm crazy, but a portion of the building, of the office space should be, you know, allocated to the volunteer department. Portion of IT costs, All those basics. In addition to the cost for background checks and printing flyers and all that good stuff, right? T shirts, whatever the case may be. And then staff time, a portion of even executive leadership staff time across all departments, if it makes sense for the organization.
Brooke Campbell:And then that adds up. And when we know that number and have put some actual, like, true understanding about what the true cost is, I think that number can be very surprising to some folks, specifically some decision makers sometimes. You know? Yep. Anyway, it's something that I've kind of just in the last year kind of delved into dived and Again, saying is not my thing.
Brooke Campbell:So I'm interested to see how some of the organizations that have picked up on that if it's actually working for them.
Heather Patrick:But I think the flip side of that is understanding of return on investment, right? So this is what you're going to spend and hard costs. The flip side is, you know, for an organization like us, we have about, I don't know, probably 500 volunteers across the board that are active every year, that are helping us execute out in the communities that we could not get to. And so the return on investment, even if you just the pure hours and what by whatever the assigned value is each year, right? But you're talking about thousands of dollars that in theory we would have to spend in order to have an equivalent of that human resource capital on staff to go out and do that.
Heather Patrick:Right. And so I think it is critical to understand both the true cost of it, right. But also the return on investment. Yes, exactly. Because I, every nonprofit I've been a part of volunteers are critical part of executing the mission.
Heather Patrick:And so I think really learning how to invest and manage that part of the business is critical for success. It's my own opinion.
Brooke Campbell:I hear you. I'm there. I agree.
Brooke Campbell:I like to say, what is our nonprofit sector without its volunteers? And then stop talking. And let that sink in. I try to say that more often.
Heather Patrick:Great question.
Heather Patrick:So what advice would you give somebody new that was coming into the nonprofit sector that specifically wanted to jump into volunteer management? What advice would you give them?
Brooke Campbell:Connect with your would be peers in that space. Actually, I can tell you now I'm excited to share that. So you're familiar with Haba in the Houston area. It was the Houston area of volunteer administrators. Kind of as an organization, it went defunct after COVID.
Brooke Campbell:And I am now charged with partnering with the right partners in the community to bring that back.
Heather Patrick:I love that.
Brooke Campbell:I am super excited about it.
Heather Patrick:Love that.
Brooke Campbell:Because I've heard volunteer managers from across the regions ask about, hey, does that is that still a thing? Is it coming back? And the reality is that there really isn't another space for those professionals to come together and learn from each other, share with each other. And so that would be, I think, first advice, first step is connect with other volunteer engagement professionals because there's a lot to know and learn.
Heather Patrick:And I would say back to your CVA. So let's talk about your certification a little bit and talk about that experience. And would you recommend that for someone who was coming into the space?
Brooke Campbell:Yes, hands down. Let me tell you. So I think I earned that in 2022, maybe. So I had been working in the nonprofit sector for a long time at that point. And when I went through the it's not a check the box credential, You have to show your work and study some of the there's an exam. And the way that they is it CCVA?
Heather Patrick:Yes.
Brooke Campbell:The Center for Credentialing or whatever. Way they have outlined this profession It's amazing. Oh, it's so beautiful. It is amazing. I think I said this recently that they recognize how much of a unicorn we are as volunteer engagement professionals, because you have to be oh I forget, I'm not gonna remember the list, but it's like a there talent
Heather Patrick:There are seven core pillars and within those pillars they outline at least 10 characteristics and skills you have, should have, build to have to be successful in this realm. And I love that. Think because most volunteer managers that I know or talk to our administrators don't describe themselves the way this work is described. And yet that is accurate on all the things they are doing on a daily basis. So I think even if you don't end up getting certified, but I highly recommend it.
Heather Patrick:I think just the resources and the depth of knowledge that it presents is such a great place to start.
Brooke Campbell:It really is. I refer back to it still. I mean, you have to like recertify every five years, I think. But I still refer back to it because it helps when I find myself in a position where I have to convince others, those decision makers, that it's worth the investment. There's a lot of great material there. Yeah,
Heather Patrick:I would agree. We'll end on So talking about leadership and leadership in the space. So as a leader in this space, how do you maintain your own balance, especially when in kind of the middle of disaster recovery? So is there something you do specifically or that you've learned as a leader to kind of hone in and ground yourself when things are crazy?
Brooke Campbell:Yeah, it was a hard lesson to learn, but yes. And it goes back to, you know, I think disaster working in that space is different in that I I accept and I acknowledge that I am going to all be working long, long hour. I mean, even in the grant making space, we were up until midnight on Saturday, reviewing grant applications and preparing the strategy. And I was surprised at how much work there was to do my first time around in 2024.
Heather Patrick:Yeah, that's a whole different conversation that we could talk about grant making and strategy. That's a different episode, but we will come back to that.
Brooke Campbell:So I kind of like I accept that I'm going to not have a lot of boundaries during that time. But that means that I protect that work life balance during blue sky days that much more. And I encourage that in others, in my team members. And it's, I think, difficult sometimes because I think there are still some folks in leadership positions that don't advocate for that. And it's so important to be able to do that.
Brooke Campbell:I think people, individuals feel supported and heard when you advocate for them to have their own work life balance. And I think it starts there. That's caring about the human, right? That's where leadership starts caring about the person first before the work.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. So volunteer management side, what has been one of the best things that you've seen from a leader as they've advocated or supported volunteer management, investment in volunteer management. What stood out to you? Or did you have to convince every leader why it was important? Maybe I'm an Edward.
Brooke Campbell:No.
Brooke Campbell:I think Oh, man, that could go so many different ways. I think that the best examples I've seen have been those who just acknowledge the work of the volunteers. Also love it when they recognize the work of the volunteer engagement professionals because they're there in the background as well.
Heather Patrick:Absolutely.
Heather Patrick:Don't know that I have a really good example or answer to that. Do you? What do you think?
Heather Patrick:I think probably the best example that I have seen, well, two out. I will say when I worked for the MS Society, the way they planned and thought through how they worked with their volunteers, how they recognize their volunteers, how they built pathway for engagement and leadership with their volunteers was the best I have seen yet. And so their commitment across the organization to really highlight the work of the volunteers in the organization was pretty phenomenal.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah.
Heather Patrick:And then I would say when I worked for Komen too, you know, there was so much that was done by volunteers They also had a great program for highlighting the volunteer work. Again, pathways. You could come in and serve in different roles. And I think that is really important. I think being able to give people a pathway into your organization and then stay connected and grow is critically important.
Heather Patrick:I think that takes leadership thought because again it goes back to investment. You have to work with your team or at least empower your team to be focused on that. And so I would say those two organizations at a national level really worked hard to honor their volunteers. And I think that's what really honor them, honor their work, honor, their success, honor their commitment to the organization. And I think that that really for me, probably one of the reasons I feel strongly as I do is because those parts of my career were early on and I really believe in it.
Heather Patrick:I believe in honoring the work the volunteers do.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. You know, so thank you for sharing those because it sparked a couple of of memories, I guess, in my mind too. I think it was Points of Light Mhmm. Who developed this I don't know that I would say they developed this concept, but they gave it a name. Service Enterprise.
Heather Patrick:I like that.
Brooke Campbell:Yeah. Is like acknowledging and incorporating volunteer service at every level, every function of a nonprofit. And I think that approach is a really smart approach, and I think it aligns with the examples you gave. Because volunteers really can't they're not just envelope stuffers.
Brooke Campbell:They're not just kit builders. You can have I mean, our board members are
Heather Patrick:Yeah. That's was going say. Our leadership, they are volunteers.
Brooke Campbell:And then you move into the skilled volunteers. You can have volunteers in your accounting department, on your legal team, you know.
Heather Patrick:Marketing.
Heather Patrick:Yes. And so recognizing, and I think including that strategy or taking that approach to volunteerism in nonprofit sets a good example.
Heather Patrick:And what do you think makes a strong leader through disaster recovery?
Brooke Campbell:I'm going to share Mark Brown's story. Mark Brown is the CEO of West Houston Assistance Ministries. I think he's retiring. He might not have left yet. But he talks about he actually studied this. And Mark, if you're listening, I'm sorry I'm going to totally watch this. But his doctorate, at least in part, was on disaster response.
Brooke Campbell:So we asked him to speak one of our convenings, and his main message is as a leader, you have to empower your team members to make decisions without you. So you prepare them leading up to, right? Give them guardrails, boost confidence in whatever way you do that, but then empower them and then trust them to make those decisions without you because you're not always going to be available. Sometimes we have to move fast and waiting for approvals and decisions from one or two people can slow things down. But I think that is one of the I would love to see that happen everywhere.
Brooke Campbell:You know? It's hard to do, and I get that. It is. But it can it reminds me of Amazon's customer service. They give their people, don't they? Some sort of little budget for like when a package doesn't show up. I mean, the refund is immediate. It's not like I have to provide my social security number. It's evidence. Right.
Heather Patrick:Oh, you're right. Amazon made us literally don't worry about sending it back. Here's your refund.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. It's funny because I was thinking about that a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, wonder how that works, right? Because if you have a 100 people in a day that, you know, like what does, how does that impact your business?
Brooke Campbell:I know, right?
Heather Patrick:Yeah. Things that as I'm thinking about my Amazon returns, these are the things I'm thinking about. But no, I think there is a very, and I think not only in disaster response and recovery, but probably just in this space and probably certainly even in the for profit world right now as the world is evolving and adapting, rapidly being able to have those kind of leaders that empower their teams to make decisions when they need to make decisions to absolutely move the mission forward is critical and it is hard to do. It is hard to do, but I think comes back to something you said earlier, trust relationships, communication, and it goes both ways. I mean, that is from leadership to the team and team back up to leadership.
Heather Patrick:But I think those are critical components to be able to operate like that. And right now I feel like we have to be able to, the world is ever changing every day.
Heather Patrick:Yeah. It's a little crazy.
Brooke Campbell:There's no way around it.
Heather Patrick:There's no way around it.
Brooke Campbell:It's gonna happen.
Heather Patrick:Well, you so much. Those have been a great conversation. Thank you. I think you have such a unique perspective. So thank you for sharing it.
Heather Patrick:Truly appreciate you, the work you do, and our partnership. And so thank you very much.
Brooke Campbell:Well, thank you. I have to say I enjoy our conversations, recorded or not. I always learn something new from you. I appreciate everything you do as well.
Heather Patrick:Thank you. Thank you. Well, we always talk about at the end how you can get involved and volunteer with PBT. There are definitely plenty of opportunities across the state and of course to support us as well, but we are always looking for people to join our family and help us move our mission forward. So thank you.
Heather Patrick:As always, we want to know what your vision is. Thanks. Take care.