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*Winner - Best Tech Podcast - 2025 Quill Podcast Awards*
British Columbia is experiencing an unprecedented housing crisis. While addressing various aspects of the housing supply chain is essential, no single approach can fully solve the challenges we face in scaling housing production. So, what's the blueprint for growth?
In November 2023, DIGITAL — Canada's Global Innovation Cluster for digital technologies — launched its Housing Growth Innovation Program with support from the Province of British Columbia through the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs. The program brings together collaborative teams of industry leaders to accelerate technology-driven approaches that are driving real, tangible growth for British Columbia's housing production sector.
Amy Vilis, Director of Housing Growth Innovation at DIGITAL, chats with innovators doing groundbreaking work within DIGITAL's Housing Growth Innovation Program to develop and implement technology-based solutions within British Columbia's housing sector across the full scale of end-to-end production. These conversations showcase how ideas are making it into the real world where they can become comprehensive, viable and, best of all, achievable solutions to accelerate housing production for British Columbians.
Amy Villis (00:02)
Welcome to Blueprint for Growth, Innovation and Housing. I'm your host, Amy Villis, Director of Housing Growth Innovation at Digital, Canada's global innovation cluster for digital technologies.
Today we're exploring the design and engineering phase of housing development. This stage is notoriously complex, involving multiple parties, often fraught with challenges that can lead to significant delays and costly revisions. From unclear permitting requirements to conflicting policies and the need for extensive coordination between multiple parties, we'll explore how technologies like BIM, AI-driven design tools, and standardized modular systems are addressing these pain points, ultimately accelerating housing production in BC.
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Amy Villis (01:10)
Yehia Madkour is an architect and director of innovation with Perkins & Will. Yehia's expertise lies in the intersection of design and technology where he has led multiple research clusters focusing on design innovation, construction and digital fabrication. His projects delve deep into reduction and sustainability, making him a pioneer of eco-friendly architectural solutions.
Yehia is currently collaborating with Digital on an exciting project involving mass timber housing prototypes with code compliance analytics for efficient design. In our conversation, let's explore the benefits of mass timber in sustainable construction, system designs, and the importance of regulatory readiness in the evolving housing landscape. Your project emphasizes the use of mass timber and modular prefabrication, which very much aligns with BC's Mass Timber Action Plan and all the recent building code changes.
allowing for larger typologies of mass timber buildings in select communities in BC. What in your perspective is the future of mass timber and construction given these developments?
Yehia Madkour (02:13)
So mass timber offers quite a bit of performance space. I think there is a bigger understanding of the sustainability aspects of using a renewable material. With the more stringent sustainability targets, I think that the municipalities are bringing in our own responsibility towards the environment. think it's quite important to understand what really comes with mass timber as well is this idea of pre-fabrication.
Because mass timber is an engineered product, needs to be created within factories, whether you're using Lulam or CLT panels. These are all very regulated in terms of the performance requirements. And with that, you're relying on factories and very predictable performance from the building material they're using. And doing that, it allows us to use modular components.
So if the design itself is based on modularity, it's based on adaptable metrics of ranges, using mass timber seems to be the perfect partner where it addresses all of the sustainability metrics that we're trying to achieve, but at the same time accelerates all of these timelines that we're looking for.
Amy Villis (03:26)
The term pre-approved designs is often used, but I prefer the concept of regulatory readiness. This involves preparing designs and components to effectively meet regulatory requirements, simplifying the complex and time-consuming permitting process. In your current project, you're utilizing modular components and parametric designs. Can you elaborate on how this approach enhances regulatory readiness? Specifically, how do pre-approved components and digital tools reduce uncertainties and accelerate approvals?
Yehia Madkour (03:54)
So I think we think about this from the perspective first of design that then leads to regulatory readiness. So if you think about the design side of things and again touching on working with modular components, parametric design that allows for rapid prototyping and modular configuration, but also creates the adaptable flexibility of a kit of parts. So when you're working with this, it's a shift from using individual designs to using kit of parts and systems that actually fit together.
in a variety of configurations. And that's quite important because once you start working with systems and there is a larger understanding of how configurations could happen to suit a range of needs, then you can also start to think about the permitting process in very similar ways. So if you start thinking about permitting from the perspective of reducing uncertainties, automating regularity checks, it benefits a lot when you're working with components that are known. So you're not...
at every single permitting process or regulatory approval, you're not starting from scratch. Not from design, and you're also not starting from scratch from trying to understand that design to figure out whether it is approvable or not. You're working with components that are pre-approved, and you know that there is a range of configurations when these components are put together up to certain limits, up to certain ranges, that they would be approvable. So once you get into a process of approving it once,
And then the next one and the next one and the one following is actually going to be quite quicker, especially if you have digital tools around to be able to quickly assess that. And by that I mean it's the idea of using digital compliance tools, automated checks, this again idea of green light, red light and explanations of what it means. Because once the systems are known, then you can actually enable the digital tools to be able to
dive into these systems and understand whether they meet a particular regulation or not. And a lot of it is partnerships. And that's why I think earlier we talked about the importance of partnerships between government authorities, know, the municipalities, the private sector, because there is no how and data that is embedded in each of these processes. And the more that we can actually weave the connections between them and connect the dots in a much more streamlined way, the better it is for all of us. We're cutting waste.
we're bringing that benefit back to the people that are actually going to be, you know, habiting the projects that we're working on. So I think it's a win-win from both sides.
Amy Villis (06:26)
You gotta love a win-win. Kit-of-parts is not a new concept. It's a bunch of pre-designed, pre-fabricated building components. Kit-of-parts has been around for a hundred years, but it's gained renewed attention. The Kit-of-parts concept is fascinating. It's kind of like thinking of a house construction as a sophisticated, grown-up version of Lego or Meccano. These childhood toys give us a great analogy for understanding the power of modular, adaptable systems in construction.
Just as with LEGO, where you can create countless structures from a finite set of standardized bricks, the kit aparts approach allows for immense creativity and customization within a standard framework. And like Meccano, where different components can be combined to create complex machines, this system allows for the integration of various building elements, from structural components to mechanical systems, in kind of like a plug and play manner. This approach combines sustainable, prefabricated, efficient design flexibility to address modern housing challenges.
Can you elaborate on the benefits of this concept?
Yehia Madkour (07:26)
It's a very early concept and whether it's digitized or not, I think there's huge benefits in productivity when you start to think about systems. There's a few hundreds of thousands of new housing units that needs to be built in BC alone by 2030. So when you start thinking about that kind of demand, you really need to shift the thinking from one offs and bespoke products to systems. Systems that are done
and designed creatively so that they can be adaptable as well. not advocating or we're not advocating for a cookie cutter type of, know, everybody gets the same thing and all that. I think that's the thing of the past and maybe it wasn't available without the technology, but now technology actually allows us to create adaptability within confined systems that have ranges. So think once you start to understand that, you can address a lot of the complexity. So back to the concept of kit of parts is essentially thinking about the house or
multi-story tower as a system of components. Engineered systems, you you're thinking about the structures, you're thinking about the wall panels, you're thinking about the enclosures, you're thinking about the window systems, you're thinking about the mechanical systems. All of these, if they can be plug and play, if they can be in a concept of understanding how they fit together, how multiple different panels can be swapped to give different performance targets.
how different structural systems, whether using CLT components or Strial structures, how they can fit together to create the ranges of adaptations that are needed, and then essentially fabricating all of these components offsite.
Amy Villis (09:07)
Really the next like five, ten years for you, for the seat that you're sitting in, you know, what adventure do you want to take on like seeing new iterations or new opportunities and it could look like anything. What are your thoughts on that?
Yehia Madkour (09:21)
next five years, would love to see scalability done right, where you're really thinking around how can you be creative and adaptable. This project that we're working towards sort of paves the path, and I'm hoping that it's a successful one that can actually show us a way to be extremely creative, create homes for people that they love, work with materials that are beautiful, they're amazing for the environment, and...how to put this all together in a system that just makes sense and is responsible is something I would love to see.
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Amy Villis (10:14)
Alkarim Devani is co-founder of Round Square and mddl For the past decade, Alkarim has been deeply involved in the neighbourhood redevelopment through Round Square. His latest venture, mddl focuses on scaling middle housing across Canada, working closely with municipalities and government partners. Currently, Alkarim is leading a digital funded project in Kelowna, BC, developing modular components for middle housing and using GIS technology to streamline procurement and the pre-construction process.
This initiative couldn't come at a more pivotal moment. Enter Bill 44, the small-scale multi-unit housing legislation introduced in 2024 to address BC's housing crisis. By increasing density near transit stops and eliminating public hearings for certain zoning areas, Bill 44 opens new opportunities for landowners, developers and communities to create vibrant spaces with three to six housing units on lots previously limited to single-family homes.
Alkarim's work perfectly aligns with this shift. In our discussions, we'll explore how Bill 44 breaks down barriers to middle housing, the importance of creating robust ecosystems to support this transformation, and empowering homeowners to become part of the solution. The term missing middle or gentle density has become a key way to describe the gap in housing options. Bill 44 feels like a turning point for BC's approach to housing development. How do you see this legislation reshaping the conversation?
And what makes this moment so significant for the homeowners and folks in the communities?
Alkarim Devani (11:47)
What was so massive about these things is like it shifts the conversations because now we're not fighting about whether or not it's appropriate. If more people should live in these communities, the conversation shifted is like, how do we do it in a meaningful way, in a respectful way? That's really what I've enjoyed now is our conversations are no longer about Nimbus, Yenbis opposition. It's more just like, okay, the policy is what it is. The writing is on the wall, but we can do a good job. We can build a framework here that works for everybody, a process that works for everybody. And most importantly, what I've learned is like,
When we started mddl, we came to this thesis and idea that mddl will only scale if Canadians are involved in solving the housing crisis. So our entire thesis is rooted in the fact that every single mddl project fundamentally, every Gentle Density, every ADU starts with an everyday Calgarian citizen, Canadian, British Columbia who says, I want to do something on my home. And for the vast majority of the time, doing anything but selling it.
was unapproachable. And what Bill 44 did is it basically broke that barrier. You know, as middle now, we're trying to fill that. How do we simplify the process so that more people can join the ecosystem? Because I believe it's the only way we solve the housing crisis is if more people recognize they have role to play.
Amy Villis (13:01)
You've touched on a vital concept in modern housing development, the ecosystem approach. In this context, an ecosystem refers to the interconnected network of stakeholders, processes and technologies that collaborate to create, finance and manage housing. Each part influences and depends on the other. Let's explore the challenges you've mentioned. The missing middle isn't just about income or housing forms, but about the disconnect within the ecosystem.
Can you elaborate on these challenges and share how your work aims to unite the ecosystem and create stronger foundations for middle housing development?
Alkarim Devani (13:36)
The thing that I think I realized about the middle housing ecosystem from the outset is there was some cultural gaps. There were some things that even from like just a robustness of a disconnected ecosystem, like when we call it missing middle, people are always thinking we're referring to income or housing form, but the ecosystem is missing. We can't find appraisers that actually know how to appraise unless there are commercial appraisers who are like, I don't want to do five units. I've been doing 50 to 500 to, you know, million dollar projects.
But the residential appraisers are not allowed to praise as per the Appraisal Institute of Canada. And so what I would say to you is like, there's this giant gap in the marketplace that's being band-aided and patched. And so what I think we recognize was like, okay, let's start to figure out where the gaps are. Let's try to unite a bit of this ecosystem. And that's what we've been doing. And we're about to roll out a product that's going to do that as well, which is about
bringing the entire ecosystem together under one umbrella so we can learn from each other. And so I would say like that was the first thing that we recognized. It's like, okay, there's missing education, there's missing transparency, there's missing ecosystem, there's missing financial tools. Let's get all of them in a room and figure out what is something that we think we can deploy today.
Amy Villis (14:47)
This approach isn't just about building more homes and building them faster. It's about creating smarter, more sustainable communities. The focus on infill development is certainly going to help reduce that urban sprawl and make better use of existing infrastructures. Moreover, the standard design approach is being adopted at a provincial level. The Basie government has recently made available free standardized designs for small scale multi-unit housing that can be used throughout the province.
By combining fast track approvals, standardized designs, and technology integrations, they're providing a comprehensive solution to the housing challenge. So let's talk about the work you're doing with Kelowna and their innovative approach to housing. I understand they've been at the forefront of fast tracking programs for middle housing since 2015. Can you tell us about your collaboration with the city and how you've helped evolve their process?
I'm particularly interested in hearing about the pre-approved plans, the use of GIS, and how you're engaging property owners and the industry.
Alkarim Devani (15:46)
You know what? And I would say kudos to the city of Colana who launched the first fast track back in 2015 before I even knew what middle housing really was fundamentally. They had already been thinking about this. So for them to reach out to us, we were super honored because they had already recognized the power of this. They already had a process. It was overly successful where they had to shut it down. And we were able to like bolt our understanding of what's happened and try to basically work with them to create a better framework. so.
not a catalog plan, but a pre-approved plan with five different architects with full consulting drawings so that you pay one time reduced costs and now you get to a building permit within 10 business days. And Kelowna already has like AI and James Moore in their group, really part of their ethos. And so they believe they could turn these things out in like two days. And so we have these five plans, they go out, they went out in June and now they want to add, you know, potentially 10 more. And the thing about James is he's like a
critical thinker, right? So he's not doing this to like just add an inspiration. He's like, no, want people to deploy these on the ground. And so how do we know they're deployable and where they're deployable? And so we did this like GIS mapping study to understand, okay, 1300 of the sites today are eligible, one for one can meet these first five plans. And so we contacted those 1300 people and the entire industry and said, come and learn about what we're doing in FastTrack.
but also how you deliver middle housing and how we can support you in the delivery of that. And so like trying to move people along and there's a lot of antics in housing, like it's become very political and I believe housing should be bipartisan. It's like, can't make it an issue because it's political. We just need more housing and you can't make it go faster than it needs to move because then you mess it up, if that makes sense. And so I think for us, we're like, we're cultivating seeds.
We're establishing routes, which will then lead to the trees that we need that will be there for, you know, hundreds of years. We've treated this problem over 30, 40, 50 years. It didn't create itself last year or the year before. So I would just say like the technology that we're infusing, pre-approved plans, modular implementation, those things can be introduced once you have a framework. And so we've been building this framework, not only in Kelowna, but now in five different municipalities.
To really get alignment on the framework, industry buy-in, administrative buy-in, community buy-in, and then come with a delivery mechanism that simplifies it for everything.
Amy Villis (18:14)
With these policy changes, unlocking land and creating a supportive ecosystem, we are certainly empowering homeowners to become developers themselves. Could you elaborate on how your program equips them with ready-to-use tools and resources to facilitate this transformation?
Alkarim Devani (18:29)
can tell you the fundamental issue today is that you have the wrong avatar, because my avatar is that existing homeowner. And when you speak to them or you create processes, we need to make it so simple that they believe they can be a part of this. And I clarified, it's like, I don't think they're all going to pick up tool belts and then all of a sudden become builders. And I don't think they're going to go and become sophisticated, savvy developers. And that's why you need an ecosystem approach. Let's get them the right people. Let's create predictable frameworks, predictable costs, predictable financing, because it does take a village.
You can't have 10 developers that make up 90 % of the middle housing ecosystem. It's not equitable. It's not fair. And that's where I kind of stepped back and said, I never got into this to own like 150 townhome rental units that appreciate and then sell. Like it's just not what motivated me every day. Like what motivated me was seeing the families or like having someone who was recently divorced, like crying in tears about being able to live in the same community as her children still. Like that's what motivates me.
And I can't do more of that if I can't figure out how to get the existing homes that are aging and those people feeling like they can do this.
Amy Villis (19:34)
Especially in constrained housing situations, financial ones, especially like in the city of Vancouver, you have mom and pod that own the land and they want to develop something that they could have a unit, their family could have a unit, they could have a rental opportunity for someone in the community. And I look at that and go, all I can say is that is an opportunity for a really sleek solution.
Alkarim Devani (19:56)
I took it the same way. I love it. You're giving me the big flag and the real challenge, which means that there is an inverse, which is the opportunity and how do we build that system better? And so I can't agree more. And I would say like, what you're talking about is what we say to everybody is that there is no one, no single person better positioned to do a development project, but the landowner, because they bought at a time when the land was not too expensive. And so we had a high school teacher at middle school in Kelowna.
and he's got two kids and he's lived in this house for 25 years, something like that. And so, you know, he's like, listen now, like my option is to sell and I have to find a place to live. And I still got to figure out where my kids are going to live because I'm concerned like they're not staying in this community or in the city. If I can't find a way to like create. I came here today solely with this idea of like.
I'm not trying to like take the million bucks that I made and go do something or figure it out. I'd just figure out how to like create more housing for my kids so they can raise their families near me and here. And it's like, yes, that's it. And like, we need early adopters today and then we need to shore up early adopters. I never wanted to be an academic or theoretical or just like someone who says, the policy's there. Why isn't anyone doing it? Well, it's like they're not doing it because something is fundamentally broken or it's still not working. And so
How do we encourage people to actually take action? We have to demonstrate, we have to lead by example. And so that's been a huge pillar for us because we're developers like Darlene and I traditionally, we've done it. We know how hard it is. We know what the unpredictability of it can be like. So it's like, let's just do it ourselves. Let's prove to the ecosystem it's viable so then they have confidence and let's solve the challenges we know we're going to embark on.
Amy Villis (21:38)
digital, our model where we want to de-risk those proof of concepts and being able to support a project like this was a no-brainer because you're like, this is going to take that opportunity that me and you were both very excited about, like really drill in what is a collaborative solution. I mean, you have surrounded yourself and continue to do and, you know, good people attract good people, right? You've got the partnerships that
paint that end-to-end opportunity for unlocking this type of housing, which is for me anyway, like one of those biggest conversations around the water cooler, because we all know policy sometimes is made based on very little data or understanding. a lot of discussion has been like, is this bill really all that useful? Because how is mom, paw that have all their assets locked in land going to actually develop? You provide a product like you have and an opportunity like you have.
that gives that repeatability, certainty, predictability, and the fear goes away. So then all of a sudden you've got confidence in purchasing, and then you've also stimulated the economy in such a way where we've got thriving businesses meeting the needs and creating housing production, which is super rad. Where would you ideally like to scene set five, 10 years, 50 years, whatever you're thinking?
Alkarim Devani (23:01)
I'm excited about housing on many fronts. know it's expensive. know land continues to get more expensive. I know policies continue to like maybe not do the work that needs to do. But man, like we are moving so fast as a civilization when it comes to these technologies and to these things that we can implement. And I would just say like modular panelized systems. There's so many things that are happening that I think are awesome that I think are really going to work and help move the dial. And then
I'll maybe just end here just because a lot of people say, you know, I've heard this across the ecosystem. What you're talking about is not maybe a sizable addressable market. So like this could make a significant difference. It can mobilize a bunch of people to get involved in housing. What will make a difference is like people need to learn how to become developers. The best place to do that is in this housing form. It's not to go and do an apartment building with an elevator and concrete because I've been there. It's hard. It's expensive.
and you can lose your shirt real quick. And so if we could use this almost as like this like ecosystem where we cultivate more builders, more developers, more trades, and we start to like use this as a platform, that's a part of middle housing that people don't even fundamentally like realize or disconnect with. And so I would just say like, so much hope and really excited about what this housing form has done for me and what I think it can do for so many Canadians.
Amy Villis (24:26)
I'd like to thank my guests, Yehia and Alkarim, for their time today and their insights. We've seen today how advanced technologies like AI-driven design tools, standardized modular systems are streamlining the design process, enhancing collaboration between stakeholders, and significantly reducing the time and costs associated with obtaining regulatory approvals. These innovations are not only accelerating housing production, but also improving the quality and the environment and performance of new developments.
In our next episode, we'll be moving further along the end-to-end framework to explore pre-construction and the procurement phase. We'll examine how new technologies and innovative approaches are optimizing supply chain management and preparing for efficient construction. Join us as we continue to uncover how innovation is reshaping each stage of the housing production, bringing us closer to more efficient, sustainable and affordable housing solutions for British Columbia. Thank you for your time, and especially for being interested.
This podcast is just one way digital and folks you hear in these episodes are working together to accelerate housing production and position British Columbia as a leader in housing innovation. But there is so much more that we're doing. Digital's Housing Growth Innovation Program invests in mission-driven projects targeting key housing issues, as well as encouraging collaboration and information sharing through workshops, events, and more. We'd love to hear from you. Reach out through our website at housing.digitalsupercluster.ca for more information.
This podcast and Digital's Housing Growth Innovation Program are made possible with the financial support of the province of British Columbia through the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.