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This podcast is about going to college after military service. The advantages and the challenges of pursuing higher education post military career.
0:00:00
(Speaker 2)
Hello, and welcome to the Rebel Vets Podcast. This is a podcast that will be centered around the experience of going to college after military service. I'm your host, Derek, a former ammo troop in the US Air Force, and I served for 20 years. Let's start the show. This morning, my guest is Dwayne Gordon, and I'm going to go ahead and let him introduce
0:00:27
(Speaker 2)
himself and tell him or have him explain what he does here at UNLV.
0:00:31
(Speaker 1)
All right, thank you Derek. Hello everyone. Like you said, my name is Dwayne Gordon. I'm the Associate Director for Veteran Outreach here at UNLV. I'm also a retired Air Force. I did 25 years in the Air Force, and now as the Associate Director for
0:00:45
(Speaker 1)
Veteran Outreach, I actually run the peer-to-peer program, which we call PAVE here at UNLV. PAVE stands for Peer Advisors for Veteran Education, and it is a, it's out of the University of Michigan, we are one university out of 25 across the country that has this peer-to-peer program. And really what it is, it's a kind of like a retention program. It's a battle buddy program where we assign a student veteran that has been at UNLV for a
0:01:14
(Speaker 1)
few semesters, we assign them to a new student veteran that's incoming. And what we try to do is just provide them with resources in the hopes to make them familiar with community resources, campus resources, and hopefully make them familiar with the campus and hopefully they stay here at UNLV for second semester.
0:01:32
(Speaker 2)
Awesome. So the program's designed to really help veterans acclimatize themselves to a college environment and ensures, you know, their success with classes and everything. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And Ross did mention that, you know, you're especially there for like outreach if somebody's struggling, you know, or if they have like a family crisis come up
0:01:53
(Speaker 1)
or something that they need help with. Correct, correct. So the providing resources, that's just one facet of the program. So we also take on those that are struggling and that are having financial issues or going through some anxieties or some PTSD issues. So we actually assist those type of students also. And we just provide, we try to provide them with any assistance that they need.
0:02:15
(Speaker 1)
And sometimes that is handing them off to other resources here on campus that actually specialize in those things. So we do that a lot here at UNLV.
0:02:25
(Speaker 2)
That's awesome. Yeah, it's all about getting people tied into the help they need, whether it's mental help or financial literacy or something like that, just to help them ensure that you can help them manage the things that they're struggling with so
0:02:38
(Speaker 1)
that they can concentrate on classwork. No, you're exactly right, Derek. And what's interesting, too, so the university I graduated from while I was in the Air Force, they didn't have these services. So really, the only service they had is the certification process. So I was using my military benefit. And all they did was make sure my classes got paid for and things like that.
0:02:59
(Speaker 1)
But if I had any other issues, financial issues, or I was going through anxiety, stuff like that, they had no program set aside like this. No battle buddy program, no peer-to-peer program or anything like that. So this program is one thing that sets UNLV apart from other universities across the country.
0:03:16
(Speaker 2)
Wow, that's excellent. So let's get to know a little bit more about your background. So where are you from originally and what made you decide to enlist in the Air Force?
0:03:27
(Speaker 1)
So I'm originally from Columbus, Ohio, so I'm a huge Buckeye fan, born and raised there. And to be honest, once I graduated high school, I knew that I did not wanna get student loans or anything like that, so I went in the Air Force just to get the VA education benefit to be honest. So like straight out of high school and into the Air Force?
0:03:47
(Speaker 1)
Straight out of high school.
0:03:48
(Speaker 2)
But the education part was like a focus of yours.
0:03:51
(Speaker 1)
Correct. So I was one out of so I have a group of five friends. I was the only one that decided to not go to Ohio State and go into the military first. So it was not a popular idea. I did get talked about, but looking back on it, it was the best decision I ever made. Best job you ever had? Yeah, actually, because I'm the only one with no student debt or anything like that. But Ohio State was my dream, you know, so I did get accepted into Ohio State, but the last minute I just decided, no, let me let me go in for at least four years and get the up to GI bill
0:04:26
(Speaker 1)
Okay, and go back. So the plan where was your first duty station? Oh interesting you asked that So my first duty station was my not Air Force Base. So why not? Yeah, bingo exactly. So at 18 years old, I landed at my not and unfortunately I landed at my not in the dead middle of the winter. So man, my first six months was all snow removal. So I was in civil engineering. They put me on a flight line, partnered up with another buddy, and we removed snow for
0:04:54
(Speaker 1)
12 hours a day.
0:04:55
(Speaker 2)
Oh my goodness. So for you guys that are unaware, the engineers are basically the maintainers of base infrastructure.
0:05:02
(Speaker 1)
Bingo.
0:05:03
(Speaker 2)
And they range from dirt boys who dig and repair and work with heavy equipment.
0:05:10
(Speaker 1)
HVAC systems. HVAC, yeah. Carpenters, electricians, oh yeah, a wide range of-
0:05:15
(Speaker 2)
So you had to learn how to drive all the heavy duty snow removal stuff?
0:05:19
(Speaker 1)
Correct. 18 years old. Oh man. Yeah, I took out a few lights. I apologize for that. But yeah, so that training part was, it was pretty hard to be honest.
0:05:32
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, it feels that way, you know, especially when you're brand new to the Air Force. Like you're green and you don't know anything. You're just trying to do what you're told.
0:05:41
(Speaker 1)
Exactly.
0:05:42
(Speaker 2)
Make sure you get all your training done.
0:05:43
(Speaker 1)
Exactly, exactly. But I will say, hey, that type of snow there and the wind, that made me never want to experience or live anywhere with snow again. And that's why I'm here in Las Vegas. You know, you hear
0:05:58
(Speaker 2)
that all the time from people in the northern states, you know, like Wisconsin or Minnesota or Michigan. They're like, yeah, I loved where I was from, but man, I didn't like the wintertime.
0:06:08
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, crack and derrick, the snow drifts. I mean, you would come outside, your car is covered in snow and everything. It was crazy.
0:06:14
(Speaker 2)
How long were you an engineer?
0:06:16
(Speaker 1)
So I was an engineer for 12 years of my Air Force career. And unfortunately, I ended up having a fluke accident, and I lost my hearing in my right ear. So totally gone. Can't hear, can't fix it. They had surgery. I did have surgery on it, but it couldn't replace my hearing. So what the Air Force did is they medically retrained me
0:06:35
(Speaker 1)
into public affairs. And I finished out my last 13 years of my career in public affairs.
0:06:40
(Speaker 2)
So almost like half and half of an Air Force career in one field and in another.
0:06:45
(Speaker 1)
Exactly, correct. So what's interesting about that, so as a civil engineer, a lot of people tease Air Force as a chair force, but that was not my first half of my career. Civil engineers, no, there's no sitting around and no office duty or anything like that.
0:06:59
(Speaker 1)
But when I medically retrained in public affairs, now that was office environment and things like that. So for me, I was like, oh, I can ride this out. This is cake.
0:07:10
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, I can understand that a little bit. As an ammo troop, there's a lot of different sections you could work in, about eight or nine. Some of them are office jobs. Most of them are kind of like a blue collar maintenance man hard worker, like you're out in the desert
0:07:25
(Speaker 2)
in a truck or under, you know, we called it the MACPAD where we assemble all of our munitions. So my first duty station was Davis-Monthan in Tucson, Arizona. So the opposite of what you experienced, you got freezing cold and I got blazing desert
0:07:40
(Speaker 4)
sun.
0:07:41
(Speaker 1)
You did. You know, it's interesting. When I was a young civil engineering troop, I got deployed to Saudi Arabia. It was one of my first deployments there. I experienced ammo. For some reason I got tasked with a team. We had to come out and spray all of your ammo containers before they got shipped back because they didn't want certain type of insects on the plane and getting
0:08:02
(Speaker 1)
back into the United States. So we had to spray 900 and some odd of your containers.
0:08:08
(Speaker 2)
Oh my goodness.
0:08:10
(Speaker 1)
So for Ammo, that was my first introduction to Ammo. I said, oh my goodness, you guys have all this equipment over here? It was great.
0:08:18
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, that's the thing. Like, we're mostly like a logistics organization. People don't think of us that way. We are in maintenance. We fall under the maintenance title, but honestly, it's a lot of logistics movement. We're moving around mass quantities of explosives, storing them. We'll pull them out.
0:08:33
(Speaker 2)
We'll build them into the munitions that are required for each mission. So whether that's your laser guided bomb or your GPS guided bomb, whatever the mission dictates is how we tailor, but it takes a lot of forklifts and trucks and heavy duty equipment. Not as big as the engineers got, but it's enough to drive tractor trailers around and bobtails and trucks.
0:08:53
(Speaker 1)
Exactly. The other interesting part, so to come full circle, so when I went into public affairs, so now my team is in charge of going out and getting stories on all the units in the Air Force. So we went back to MO and did interviews of some of the airmen in MO, because you guys have a huge MO competition where you're going against other bases or other units to see,
0:09:17
(Speaker 1)
you know, I don't know if it's to load or unload or something like that. So we did cover that mission for you guys, which was very interesting.
0:09:24
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, I forget what it's called now. But basically, they'll determine, hey, this is how many jets are on the flight line, simulated, of course. And this is the frag that you have to build out for them. So this is the weapons required for the mission.
0:09:38
(Speaker 2)
And so you've got a time frame that you have to build that many munitions in and make sure that they are all technically correct because you assemble 25 bombs, they're not all gonna be perfect. There's gonna be defects here and there. And then that's kind of how you're graded. You're like, oh, well, you got 24 out of 25 bombs
0:09:55
(Speaker 2)
were correct and that's your grade. And you met your timeline.
0:10:00
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, that was awesome to see. So that was great. So yeah, your job, I'm kind of familiar with a lot of aspects of the MO.
0:10:08
(Speaker 2)
That's neat. I mean, public affairs, so were you like an interface between what's going on in the base and the local community?
0:10:14
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, so what's interesting, so public affairs has several different sections. We have community relations, kind of what I do here at UNLV. We also have media relations, so they deal with any media that is coming on base, or also prepping some of our senior leaders before they do an interview. Public affairs is behind the scenes,
0:10:34
(Speaker 1)
and we do a little media murder board with our leaders. And then we also have the journalists and the photographers that write the articles and take photos and things like that. So when I retrained into that, I was already E6. So I had to go through each section pretty quick, but then I was also already in charge
0:10:53
(Speaker 1)
of some members. So I had to go in and get, you know, learn pretty quick.
0:10:58
(Speaker 2)
But then after that- Yeah, it's an interesting transition because you've got the like years under your belt, but you're new to the career field. Exactly. You've got the like years under your belt, but you're new to the career field. Yeah, exactly. So you have to kind of learn the job.
0:11:06
(Speaker 1)
I had to learn it very quick and then I had to be ready to lead those that were coming up. So it was very interesting. And right when I got into it, I learned the job pretty quick. Then I deployed right away to Iraq. So that was my first public affairs deployment was to Iraq.
0:11:23
(Speaker 1)
And I went in solo. So I was pretty nervous.
0:11:26
(Speaker 2)
I was going to say, one of my questions is going to be, got any good war stories? So how was the Iraqi mission out there?
0:11:33
(Speaker 1)
So the mission was great. The thing about public affairs is what's different in civil engineering is some public affairs members, we deploy solo, and we go in, and we join other forces, other public affairs members we deploy solo and we go in and we we join other forces other public affair forces or you can be out there by yourself and you're like the the commander's public affairs person so
0:11:54
(Speaker 1)
okay interesting so that's what I was I was so I was I was at e6 and I just made e7 so I sold on my master sergeant while I was in Iraq. So I was just our colonel's public affairs person over there. So it was pretty interesting, and there was a lot of things going on. And we were taking a lot of indirect fire
0:12:16
(Speaker 1)
immediately as soon as I arrived to base. So that was a wake-up call for me. What year was this? Like, what was going on in Iraq at the time? This was 2006 into 07. So to be honest, you know, I was I was thinking things were dying down at that time and I got a rude awakening when I landed. I said, oh things are not dying down. Oh they really are trying to kill all of us over here.
0:12:41
(Speaker 1)
So we need to take this serious. But as you can see, I made it through it. And I learned a lot over there. I did have a couple of photographers that were over there with me. So we were just covering a lot of the things that the Air Force members were doing.
0:12:54
(Speaker 1)
Because at that time, you know, at Air Force, we really wouldn't get a lot of publicity about us being over there. So public affairs, we got tasked to really get out there and show what the Air Force is doing.
0:13:05
(Speaker 2)
Awesome. What kind of things, what kind of missions were going on at the time?
0:13:08
(Speaker 1)
So I was down South, I was on Nasiriyah, so I was South, but I would link up with those that are in Baghdad and those in Northern Iraq. So we would kind of put together public affair packages for news articles, photos. We had some videographers on the team. So we would just put together these packages and send them on to our leadership to review. So down there, we were having a lot of our security forces that were going outside the wire, just figuring out what was going on. Because
0:13:35
(Speaker 1)
we had our main issue down there for the Air Force was they were launching things onto the base. They were launching missiles onto the base. So our security forces would actually go out there and try to figure out what's going on. And at that time, you know, the drones, we didn't really have the drones, we didn't have a lot of assets that we can see. Kind of things you take for granted now that we didn't have in the early days. Correct, correct.
0:14:00
(Speaker 1)
So we would attach some of our photographers, we'll go out with them and, you know, just to get us in action. Wow. It was pretty interesting.
0:14:07
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, I bet you got some interesting stuff documented. What was your favorite assignment?
0:14:12
(Speaker 1)
Oh, my favorite assignment, so what's interesting, I was stationed at Nellis twice. So as an engineering, I was stationed, connected to the Red Horse unit out at Nellis Air Force Base, and then I retired out of Nellis now, so I got sent back here in 2014 as public affairs.
0:14:30
(Speaker 1)
So I would say Nellis is definitely one of my favorite installations that I was assigned to. Also, very close to that was I was at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. That was an excellent assignment. So I was attached to the headquarters.
0:14:48
(Speaker 1)
And I was there with the cadets. And we were the public affairs units for that. That was a great assignment. Lake and Heath. Lake and Heath was a great assignment, but the ops tempo there was very high,
0:15:00
(Speaker 1)
just like Nellis Air Force Base. So there was a lot going on.
0:15:03
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, that was my last assignment before Nellis Air Force Base. So there was a lot going on. Yeah, that was my last assignment before Nellis. So I got the fortune of spending four years at Lake and Heath. And I enjoyed it because it gave me an opportunity to travel around Europe.
0:15:15
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, me too. What years were you at Lake and Heath?
0:15:18
(Speaker 2)
I was there from 2017 to 21.
0:15:22
(Speaker 1)
OK, so you were right after me because we left like he then came back
0:15:26
(Speaker 2)
to Nellis too. Yep. Interesting. Okay to move on a little bit what was your educational journey like? Did you get your associate's degree while you were serving active duty and then did you pursue higher education you know after
0:15:42
(Speaker 1)
your retirement? I sure did so yeah let go back. So I ended up getting into the Air Force to get the VA education benefit. My plan was to do four years. As you can see, those four years came, and I ended up staying in the Air Force.
0:15:54
(Speaker 3)
You signed on the dotted line again.
0:15:55
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, I signed on the dotted line. And I really did that because I was at Minye Air Force Base came up. And that's where I got to. So that's when I signed. I said, you know what? I got an Air Force to not only get the education benefit, but why not travel too?
0:16:11
(Speaker 1)
So I went to Germany. And that's when I, one thing I love about the Air Force, on your EPRs, the education section is in your EPR. So you're supposed to take classes and continue on with your higher education while you're in. So I started that path and I did. I got my associates, you know, right away in my career field.
0:16:35
(Speaker 1)
And then I went on to get my undergraduate while I was still active duty. So that was a long progress because I was just taking one class here and class there I was taking off at my during lunch and I was going to be honest when I was first stationed at Nellis I was taking off my lunch break and I was going to see us in Driving to see us in my go to class and I'll go back to work
0:16:58
(Speaker 2)
That's dedication. I mean and that's that's kind of what's tough about that Taking classes while your active duty is because you are managing a 40 hour plus work week, depending, you know, because we don't punch a clock. Some days and weeks are longer than others.
0:17:14
(Speaker 1)
You're exactly right.
0:17:15
(Speaker 2)
It's difficult to manage a class schedule.
0:17:17
(Speaker 1)
You're exactly right.
0:17:18
(Speaker 2)
More than one class a semester.
0:17:20
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, and I ended up doing it, so I got my undergrad while I was active duty, so I was just using tuition assistance.
0:17:25
(Speaker 2)
What's your bachelor's degree in?
0:17:26
(Speaker 1)
It was in business management.
0:17:27
(Speaker 2)
Business management.
0:17:28
(Speaker 1)
Yes, and to be honest, at that time, I was just picking something to prepare me for when I did get out, and I was like, oh, okay.
0:17:35
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, I do, I have'm like, well, you're gonna use your degree? And he's like, yeah, I'll find something else.
0:17:47
(Speaker 1)
Bingo, I'm the same way. I'm the same way. And what's interesting, so I also got another associate in, so in the Air Force, you can get your associates pretty quick if you get it in your career field. So I got one in engineering, and then I got one in public affairs also, because that was my career field.
0:18:05
(Speaker 1)
So I really did think about going into journalism and things like that, because that was the public affairs background. But I knew I didn't want to do the journalism part once I got out. I did think about doing the media relations or community engagement. Right.
0:18:24
(Speaker 2)
I mean, and that would help too, because you have the background and the experience from the Air Force to help you in that career field.
0:18:31
(Speaker 1)
Correct. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, that was my plan. And then also getting your undergrad while you're still active duty, that set me up for senior NCO, getting senior master sergeant, chief master sergeant. You really had to have your degree to make those ranks. So that helped me out.
0:18:51
(Speaker 2)
What did you retire as?
0:18:54
(Speaker 1)
I retired as senior master sergeant, so E8.
0:18:55
(Speaker 2)
Senior master sergeant, all right.
0:18:57
(Speaker 1)
Top 3% of the enlisted ranks. Exactly. And my goal was to make E9 chief master sergeant. I did have that opportunity, but they, they assigned me to the Pentagon right before I got out. That was one of the options instead of coming to Nellis. My career, career field manager said, Hey, we really need, we really need you at the Pentagon. And then, you know, go to Pentagon that can also,
0:19:24
(Speaker 1)
Derek, to be honest, at that moment, I shook my head, I talked to my wife, I was like, that is not for me. And that's funny, it was kind of Ross's answer as well, when the opportunity came to serve at the Pentagon or to stay here and work at the ROTC, he was like, I'd rather stay here. Yeah, that's me. Yeah. This is me. I prefer just you know be out amongst the troops Yeah, I'm in leading leaving office like that instead of That environment at the Pentagon. Yeah, that's great. That's understandable. Oh
0:19:56
(Speaker 2)
How did you get this position at UNLV? What was your journey to this job now?
0:19:59
(Speaker 1)
Oh, so I retired in 2017 My whole plan was to at least take six months to a year off and just relax a little bit. But during our our CAPS training, once you know that the training that prepares us to really transition out, they had us doing our resumes and they did talk about, you know, the things to do to prepare to get a job once you get out. So while I was in that class,
0:20:24
(Speaker 1)
I did my resume, I prepared that, and I remember receiving an email about a UNLV veteran office position. To be honest, Derek, I didn't read too much into it. I just said, you know.
0:20:38
(Speaker 2)
You just kind of came across your desk and you're like, oh, that sounds interesting.
0:20:40
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, I said, hey, I just created this resume. Hey, let me send it out and see what happens. And as you can see, this is what happened. So I retired in 2017, and I got hired on here at UNLV in 2017.
0:20:52
(Speaker 2)
Wow, in the same year.
0:20:53
(Speaker 1)
Same year.
0:20:54
(Speaker 2)
That's fantastic.
0:20:55
(Speaker 1)
I guess it was meant to be. And then, you know, UNLV's hiring process is pretty unique. So I had a lot of anxiety about that, to be honest, because they invite you here on campus for several interviews in one day. And then you also have to do a presentation. And to be honest, Derek, how I'm sitting here talking to you,
0:21:13
(Speaker 1)
I just said, hey, I'm going to just be myself and see what happens. And this is what happens. I got hired on. Wow, that's excellent. Yeah, yeah.
0:21:22
(Speaker 1)
It was a blessing. And actually I enjoy every minute of it because I did 25 years in the Air Force and now I'm eight years here, you know, just doing veteran type things. So it's right in my wheelhouse.
0:21:34
(Speaker 2)
Yeah, so what do you like about serving the veteran community?
0:21:38
(Speaker 1)
Oh, I love it. I love it. So, yeah, I'm one of them. Yeah, I know that you another part of the club. I'm part of the club. So it's really just helping out my comrades and my battle buddies and things like that. And since I'm one of them, I can relate. I can relate to them. And then here at UNLV, we actually
0:21:55
(Speaker 1)
have a lot of the dependents that are using their parents' benefit. And I can relate to that too, because since I got my degrees by using tuition assistance, I still have my education benefit that I was able to transfer to my kids. So I'm able to understand, you know, to transfer your benefits and how the defendants are using
0:22:16
(Speaker 2)
it. Yeah, that's what Ross was saying. It's an interesting time, you know, where you, I don't know if I got my numbers right, but it's almost like 50-50, like 50% of the people coming in are veterans that are using their you know either VA or their GI bill to go to school and then the other half are the kids that got the benefits transferred to them
0:22:34
(Speaker 1)
Yeah, and it wasn't like that just in 2017 when I started we had Majority of the veterans getting out using the benefit, but just over the years, we're watching that transition happen, where now it's a lot of the dependents are using the benefit, and they're here, which is great, though. And I try to get them onto my team, my peer team, because since we have a lot of dependents using it,
0:22:58
(Speaker 1)
I need to have some of the dependents on my team to be the peers to those coming in. It's actually been working very well these last few semesters.
0:23:07
(Speaker 2)
And that poses its own set of challenges too, because there's a level of expectation of professionalism and other things that come with being a veteran. You all know how it is at like 18, 19, some of those skills you don't have. So it definitely sounds like a peer person to talk to about, hey, get a class on time
0:23:26
(Speaker 1)
and make sure your schedule works for you and things like that. You are exactly right. And what's interesting, too, is the dependents that are using Benefits, of course, they don't see themselves as the veteran or as a veteran. So here we're trying to loop them in.
0:23:39
(Speaker 1)
Like, no, no, we consider you a student veteran here. So come on and join our team. Come on, be a part of it. And help out those other dependents that are coming in. It's been great.
0:23:49
(Speaker 2)
That's truly excellent. All right, thank you, Dwayne.
0:23:51
(Speaker 1)
Anything you want to plug before we go? No, not real well. I will plug, hey, veterans out there or student veterans out there, if you do want to be a part of the Battle Buddy program here that is called PAVE, please reach out to me. My name is Dwayne Gordon. You can contact me at 895-0072. Or you can email me at dwayngordon, D-W-A-Y-N-E dot G-O-R-D-O-N at UNOV dot E-D-U.
0:24:19
(Speaker 1)
And let me know you want to be a part of the team. We also have student workers that are on the certification team side too. So if you want to be a part of our office, just let me know.
0:24:29
(Speaker 2)
All right. Thank you so much, Dwayne.
0:24:31
(Speaker 1)
All right.
0:24:32
(Speaker 2)
Thank you, Derek. Thank you everyone for listening to this podcast. If you want more information about the show or the guest interview, please send an email If you want more information about the show or the guest interview, please send an email to rebelvets at gmail.com.