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"Here as in Heaven."
For more information visit : garden.church
Welcome to Garden Church Podcast. We're taking a break from our Revelation series while our lead pastor, Darren Rounce, is on sabbatical. During this time, we're gonna continue to push into the Garden's mission of creating resilient disciples by working our way through the Sermon on the Mount. Over the next few weeks, we'll have some amazing pastors from all over the world coming to impart their wisdom and insight on what is the most influential and profound sermon ever given. Enjoy.
Bill Dogterom:Well, good morning. It's good to be with you and to continue this conversation in, what it what it what it is that we are praying towards when we say here, as as in heaven. What what does it look like? What might it look like if that prayer gets answered, and and the kingdom comes? And and and and, of course, Jesus is very strategic in his teaching.
Bill Dogterom:He builds towards where we are today very carefully, because he wants to know wants us to know, rather, that that that prayer is not answered out here in other people first. It's answered here in us first. That that the kingdom doesn't come to us from the outside in. The kingdom comes, he said, is a river of living water flowing out from you. And and so we we look at this and, this passage and and ask, how do we become the kinds of people who can take Jesus seriously here?
Bill Dogterom:How how do we become the kinds of people that that that grow in to his taking us seriously? Because he seems to think, and we've had this conversation before, but he seems to think that you can actually pull this off. That that you can partner with him to save the world. That you can partner with him to save the world. That this is not something done by somebody else somewhere else, this is something that he invites you to join him in.
Bill Dogterom:And that as such, you need to become a certain kind of person. 1, he says, whose righteousness, whose way of living, whose whose marriages, whose money, how they manage their singleness, their sexuality, how they handle conflict, all of that, who whose way of living exceeds that of what he says are the Pharisees, the most righteous people you know, because it's not performative. Most of us, I don't know most of you at all well, but my guess is you kinda clean up fairly well on a Sunday morning, and and you can probably be nice when you're thinking about it. If you've got enough warning, and and are properly caffeinated, you can actually be be nice. And Jesus says, I want you to be nice because you've become nice.
Bill Dogterom:I want you to be kind because you've become kind. I want you to be good because you are good. And that might take another week or 2, is is what he's he's getting at there. Right? And he because he says, this is why he starts with with the ways that we other people, with our anger.
Bill Dogterom:You you don't get to do that anymore. Not not if you're right. Not if you're gonna join. You need to learn how to be angry in my name. You need to learn how to leverage the desire that is in the center of your soul for intimacy with God, and that has gotten hijacked by lust that results in depersonalization of others, reduction of them to objects.
Bill Dogterom:You've gotta you've gotta learn that desire well enough that that doesn't happen, and you are perennially consistently drawn to long with that longing for connection to god. And then he starts to meddle. Then he starts to get down to business, because he's noticed how fearful we are about not being taken seriously. How fearful we are of of not being taken to account, of not having having weight or half, of becoming insignificant, unsigned, as if we disappear and nobody even notices, as if our word, our our way of being, our place in the, is just unremarkable, and how terrified we are of that, and how we, work as hard as we can to to to to bulk up. But he says the way you're doing it just shows how fragile you are, just shows how out of control you are, just shows how how, actually, you don't even know what you're doing.
Bill Dogterom:And so he invites us in this 3rd kinda conversation based around the 10 words. First one, don't murder. Second one, don't commit adultery, and now he's saying, don't lie. Don't become people of the lie. Don't don't become people who say what they think they need to say so other people will think things about you that are not true, or even that are true.
Bill Dogterom:So he goes to town, in verse 33, Matthew chapter 5, he says, you've heard it said to the people long ago, don't break your oath. Fulfill the lord before the lord, the vows you have made. So I'm telling you, don't swear an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is God's throne, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Don't swear by your head. You can't even make one hair white or black.
Bill Dogterom:All you need to say simply is yes or no. Anything more than that comes from the evil one. You've heard it said, eye for an eye, tooth for tooth. But I'm telling you, do not resist an evil person. Somebody slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
Bill Dogterom:If anybody wants to sue you and take your shirt, give them your cloak too. Anybody forces you to go a mile with them, go go go 2 miles. Give to the one who asks. Don't turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Could you like run that by me again, Jesus?
Bill Dogterom:I think I misheard that. Jeez Louise this this just takes half of my Facebook posts right out of I I because I spend so much time managing people's impressions of me, wanting to get that thumbs up like button pushed. I'm you know? And And he just says every it's just pathetic What you all do? To be taken as seriously as I take you by people who haven't taken themselves seriously What what are you what are you doing?
Bill Dogterom:And of course, he begins with this. You you feel the extension right from the don't don't lie. We he's already recognized. We've we've moved from that ten word to the place that now we're we are now in a an enculturation oaths because we haven't learned how to keep that one word without them. And and and so so we we we and and then we've discovered, oh, wait, that's not enough either.
Bill Dogterom:Just taking an oath isn't is before the lord isn't enough. I need to attach it to something. I need to become weighty by proximity. I need to to kind of bulk up with barnacleized weight so that I by by the by by the temple, by the altar, by the city of the great king. That's that's how weighty I am when I give you my word.
Bill Dogterom:Is that's essentially what's going on here, and Jesus just you do know that you have Zippo control over any of those things. That as soon as you speak those words, the fragility of your speech is revealed for the silliness that it is You you you really think that you can make a vow by the temple Really? Because Jesus knows what's going to happen to the temple here within a short period of time. You think you can make a vow by the altar? You do know what's going to happen to the altar in about a 2 or 3 years Jerusalem not one stone will be left on another within 30 or 40 years That's about the weight of your vows attached to external things and and you vow by your own head You What are you doing?
Bill Dogterom:You can't, except by artificial and chemical means, change the color of your hair. And that is about as fragile as a promise made balanced on your head. And What what he's getting at here as you, you know is our fear of not being taken seriously, our fear of being misunderstood, our fear of being insignificant, of not being counted, of not being being weighty We we we we want to we want and and especially as this case. Right? And because it's not just that, we also want to manage and control people's impressions and opinions of us.
Bill Dogterom:We want to put our best foot forward. We want people always to think well of us, and and, and he, and he knows, he knows that this driver for us is almost, almost irresistible. We have, we have, we have leveraged so much energy and being taken seriously by people out there someplace. And And the outcome of it is is that we have not noticed wait heft The Hebrew word is kavod glory Is in here Not out not out there It's it's you you you can't put your heft, your weight, your substance sub substance in the hands of other people or other circumstances or other situations and counted as if it were yours. I want you, he says, to become the kinds of people who can say yes or no, and then stop talking.
Bill Dogterom:Not explanation, because this is my mode of operation. I just want everybody to realize that this is, of course, is the most intelligent thing that could be said in this moment. And I'm sure if you had the full range of knowledge that I personally possess, you would land at the same point that I land, and you would amen my yes or my no. And I will talk for some substantial period of time to guarantee that that outcome, which demonstrates what exactly? My yes doesn't mean anything in terms of binding my soul to an outcome.
Bill Dogterom:FOMO is a real thing, isn't it? Terrified of making commitments that might get appended by a better opportunity for lunch with somebody else. And Jesus just says if you want to join me in the Kingdom's coming, you've got to become substantial. You've got to become weighty in your being, in who you are, in order to do this. Because you'll notice again how we use manipulative language, we use controlling language, we use language that that that that controls, we ask questions in ways that hint at the answer we would prefer to receive.
Bill Dogterom:All kinds of ways that he is getting at here, and he says anything beyond simple yes, no, originates finally and fully from the evil one, from the adversary, from the guy who has no interest in your well-being whatsoever. Now, Jesus is not arguing here that there shouldn't be a rationale behind what you think. He's not arguing that you shouldn't think for your choices. He is however, suggesting that you might pause, take a beat before you say yes or no. Give consideration.
Bill Dogterom:How many of you have found yourself in a yes situation when reality, 3 seconds later, you realized it should have been no? Now what do I do? Right? And and and so he's aware of that. And and and again, he's not he's not giving us new law here.
Bill Dogterom:He's just suggesting that the kind of kind of decisions that need to be made in these matters don't come from out here managing everybody's impressions. It come from in here a heart that has been transformed. I want you to become the kind of person, he says, whose word can be counted on. And why might that be important when we are representatives of the word? Yeah.
Bill Dogterom:I wanna be a person of integrity, modeled for me by Jesus, because here's the thing, sometimes we discover, don't we, that our yes means we get ourselves in hot water. It was genuinely and honestly the God's honest truth, what we said was yes or no, and now we're gonna pay a price for it. Who does that sound like to you? Do you know of anybody who was the Word, who paid the price of being the Word? He invites us to Christlikeness here.
Bill Dogterom:He invites us to take the the the words that we say seriously, to live this this this kind of reality that is built on it on on integrity. In a culture of of fake news, in a culture of AI, which is beginning to rear its ugly head in all kinds of ways, and sometimes really good ways, but the the, I've I've had to insert AI detecting materials in my assignments at Vanguard University for women and men who are preparing for vocational ministry. It's like, if you cheat in a pastoral care paper, the grade you get is the least of your concerns. I mean, I mean, come on. What are we doing?
Bill Dogterom:What are we doing? You know, we're it's just it's just kinda recognizing, because because because he knows that most of our words are not about self control, they're about controlling somebody else, somebody else's impression, somebody else's ideas, somebody else's vision, an idea of us, which is, by the way, the dead level giveaway when I'm out of control in here. What do I seek to do? Control all of the things at the edges. In fact, it's now become a part of my weekly examine, my search of soul with the spirit.
Bill Dogterom:Where? Because it's not hard for me to look back over 5 or 6 days and say, oh, that's what you were doing. Oh, that's what, oh, I see that now. K. Now, I wanna push through that mechanism of control at the edges to the center.
Bill Dogterom:What what what was what was I afraid of? What was I what was I uncertain about? To live then with with solidity, Righteousness, and Flowing from the center and then he starts to to kind of riff on this a little bit. He starts to tell some jokes and Because we are not used to Jesus joking We take we're we take him seriously and then miss what he was actually saying Because what he says seriously, we can't you know that that can't be right So we just discount the whole thing, Right? Because because he starts off with this with this ridiculous suggestion.
Bill Dogterom:You've heard it said eye for eye tooth for tooth. You remember this is the Lex Telbonus. It's intended to limit revenge. It's not requirement. You don't have to take somebody's eye for the loss of your own.
Bill Dogterom:You don't have to do that. But unfortunately, that's often how it gets read. It was intended to limit revenge because because God knows that that we always revenge at a different weight than we have been venged on. Right? Any anybody find that the keeping of score is different when you're doing it rather than when somebody else has done it to you?
Bill Dogterom:We we we keep score differently. And and and whether that's in in a business relationship or in a marriage or whatever it else else it is, we we we have have this this kind of spiral that that be so the Lextelonas, this eye for an eye is intended to say thus far and no farther. Didn't work very well, because it controlled external behavior and did nothing to deal with the heart. So so so so Jesus is saying, here here, let's try this on for size. Don't resist the evil person.
Bill Dogterom:What? That what? You can't be serious. What he's saying here is don't take the resistance of evil into your, against you, into your own heart. Remember what Jesus is saying.
Bill Dogterom:You see the twinkle in his eyes, you see the smile playing on his lips. He wants us to think. He's throwing this hand grenade into the center of our comfortable ways of managing our broken culture. And he says, I want you to become the kinds of people who can take a beat and consider Whether what I'm doing in response to evil will actually limit evil or will perpetuate it Do you see he's saying let's just you have it with it. I need you to become so solid that you can actually do this Because most of us, the example he gives us right here is you is is somebody slaps you on on on on the right cheek.
Bill Dogterom:That's that's very strategic, because you can't slap somebody on the right cheek without the back of the right hand or with the open palm of the left hand. Which, both of which are not about physical assault, it's about insult. It's about shame. It's it's it's it's about calling them out. It's the bullying posture on the playground.
Bill Dogterom:And he says, I need you to become the kinds of people who aren't instantly reactive as you see the hand coming towards your cheek. It's like, oh, that's gonna take a week or 2. I don't even have a chance to think about how I'm gonna respond. My body is already responding having been well trained in the culture of eye for eye tooth for tooth. But I need you
Intro/Outro:to take a beat. I need you
Bill Dogterom:to be, and and please notice, Jesus is not saying you have to do this always and forever. In fact, he himself has knows how to resist evil But notice when he does it most often rarely ever for his own sake Jesus resisted evil done to children. Jesus resisted evil done to women in his culture. He resisted evil done to Gentiles, people on the outside edges, people who were marginalized. He pushed back.
Bill Dogterom:In fact, you did not want to be on the wrong side of Jesus. You didn't want to get between him and kids. You just didn't. The disciples learned. Oh, oh, he gets a bit tetchy when you do this So he knows he knows he just wants us to learn how to respond as he would if he were us and So this invitation and by the way, we don't even have the option doing that because we're already in reactive mode before the shame lands with us.
Bill Dogterom:And he's not talking about this as international policy. There are governments that are in place to limit evil. They will be held to account by how they did their job, whether they actually limited evil or whether they contributed to it. Governments, nations will be held to account. It's nations that will be separated into sheep and goats, depending on how they treated the poor, the marginalized, the sick, the hungry, the naked.
Bill Dogterom:That's Matthew 25. It's not individual persons first, it's nations first. So Jesus is very aware. There are some, a range of responses here. But if you can't not respond, you are not going to be very capable of bringing the kingdom in the way of Jesus.
Bill Dogterom:By the way, do you know of anybody in this story who received the slay shaming slaps without retaliation? I see where this is going. I made the mistake one time, one time of praying to become like him, And he has taken me seriously ever since. Because if you can't hang naked on a cross on a Friday afternoon and pray out of the center of your soul forgiveness, you've got some work to do, if you're gonna partner with him in the coming of the kingdom. That's where this is going.
Bill Dogterom:Right? That's where it's going. That's where it's going. And so Jesus's controllers become capa have capacity to absorb the evil, to absorb the shame, to not take it seriously or even take it personally and and and neutralize it by absorption. I don't need to bounce it back out with revenge.
Bill Dogterom:I can I can neutralize it? I can reduce the total amount of evil in the world by absorbing it in the center of my soul and not retaliating it. Boy, you gotta be pretty solid to do that. You gotta be pretty well anchored. The same kind of anchoring that says yes and no, and means it without explanation or defense, is the same kind of person who has the capacity to absorb evil without retaliation.
Bill Dogterom:And to, and to have the wisdom then, the discernment to know when other kinds of responses are necessary. I mean, Jesus, whatever you wanna say about him, he was not a pushover. Nobody intimidated him. I love that tiny little scene. When Pilate thinks he's in charge of everything.
Bill Dogterom:And Jesus just says, time out. You do know that you have no authority, except that which my father gives you. Are we clear on this? Yes. Good.
Bill Dogterom:Now, what were you saying? I love watching that moment occur as it occurs to Pilate, oh, I think I'm on trial here. Yes. Do do do you see? So so we're invited into that into that kind of, awareness of of because if I can't ever do it, then I'm that's not in the toolbox.
Bill Dogterom:But then he really starts to get ridiculous. Anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt? Give me your cloak too. And and this is just unthinkable. The audience has gotta start, you you know, you because the problem with this is that we're reading a text message.
Bill Dogterom:We're not seeing the expression on his face. We're not hearing the laughter in his voice. We're not seeing the twinkle in his eye as he says and throws these kind of hand grenades at us and and invites us to pay attention to the what's underneath the thing. Right? And because in the law, you couldn't sue someone for their coat.
Bill Dogterom:The limitation on the law was the shirt, that garment worn closest to the skin. You could sue for that, but the cloak was the poor person's last defense against the elements. There is a legal prohibition from suing for that final protection. And Jesus just says, yeah. But you can give it to him.
Bill Dogterom:He can't take it, but you can give it. Wait. What? Yeah. Oh, here.
Bill Dogterom:Here's here's another one that you might wanna, like, think about. If somebody compels you to go a mile, you can go too. Who would do that? Well, the Romans had the capacity as part of their ruthless campaign to keep people under their thumb. They could conscript any able-bodied male to carry their battle pack a mile.
Bill Dogterom:And Jesus says Carry it too Always, no, but if you can't carry it too, you can never do it If you aren't the kind of person who can realize who's actually in charge of you, you're gonna let him push you around. But if you carry it and to, please look just look over your shoulder and see the look on his face. He's as befuddled as you are. He doesn't know what which ends up anymore. He doesn't know whose kingdom is actually coming because you actually did, and here's the hard part, you can actually do what somebody asks you to do just because they asked you to do it.
Bill Dogterom:You have such freedom. You have such liberty that nobody can push you around in these areas anymore. So you can, you can carry it that, that, that second mile. You can, you can, you can give somebody not only the shirt, but the coat off your back. You can actually be, you can actually be taken advantage of Because your value worth significance does not depend on the clothes you wear or your compliance to the Roman soldiers, your value worth and significance is settled with the King in the heavenlies.
Bill Dogterom:You do know you have a father who cares for you. Yeah? This not doesn't make any sense if you don't know that. He's gonna get to this in chapter 6. What are the practices?
Bill Dogterom:What are the disciplines that enable us to become solid enough that this kind of ridiculous behavior that is strategically subversive to the kingdom of this world, turning it right side up. I I how do I become well, we'll get to that. But right now, I need you to know what's on tap here. I need you to know what's available to you. In fact, here's one you might wanna think, you can give to some, you can give to somebody just because they asked you.
Bill Dogterom:You don't have to go through the calculations of what they're gonna use it for. You don't have to do the mental, anybody had the conversation with Jesus, it sounds vaguely like that? I did. I remember a Sunday a couple of years ago, freeway off ramp. Here's a guy standing there and I just thought, he's gonna use it for something untoward.
Bill Dogterom:And I heard the voice of the Spirit. Well, what are you gonna use it for? Besides, whose money is it? You know, you know, it's just like, come on, what do we think we are? Who do we think we are?
Bill Dogterom:Anybody been blessed by a generosity you didn't deserve? Just a half a dozen of us. Hey, look. Should we go back to the lying part? Should we go back to the lying part?
Bill Dogterom:Because apparently, that one just like right over, missed something there. Oh, man. Oh, man. And you and you hear his laughter. Right?
Bill Dogterom:This isn't new law. You don't have to do this every time, but if you can never do it, you're not free. You're you're attached to your stuff. You can lend to somebody. You you can do that.
Bill Dogterom:You don't have to do the calculus of their usefulness. You don't have to do that. Besides which, you're not that smart. You're not gonna be able to do it in the first place. And by the way, remember, 1st century realities means you're putting yourself at risk by that lending, which only makes sense if you have a father who can raise the dead.
Bill Dogterom:It only makes sense if your value were significance heft is by virtue of association with him. But if that's the case, what a transformative way to say to our culture. You can be different. Follow me as I follow Christ. We are the beneficiaries of his generosity.
Bill Dogterom:He gave to us simply because we asked of him. He let us take advantage of him. Thanks be to God. And then he says now y'all Come on you can do this too You can be messengers of a kingdom culture that reflects that kind of dependence on God you can do this Let's pray Oh, lord. This is so hard, and it's it's not hard because we don't know what you're saying.
Bill Dogterom:It's hard because we do. And we've realized some of us who've got scenarios, relationships that are are are are being challenged right now because we want to do what's right and we want to do what's fair. The last thing we want is to be taken advantage of, to be made a fool of, or regarded as a fool But, Lord, I pray that we would start to discern rather than decide What is gonna be good for your kingdom? What is gonna be beneficial for the way and work of witness? Lord, I pray that we would be protected in this space from this universalizing silliness that sometimes flows out of this texts, but at the same time not be saved from taking them seriously enough to think through what the implications of them are for our patterns of living tomorrow morning.
Bill Dogterom:I pray, oh god, that we would become so solid, so weighty, so substantial that we would have the capacity to do what you're calling us to do here, Jesus. And then move on to loving our enemies, which is where you go next. Amen.
Intro/Outro:Thank you for listening. For more information, please visit us at garden.church.