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Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:08 - 00:00:25:09
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. So this is, like a coalition that's coordinated through greater, Greater Washington. And they've been doing work without driving now for a couple of years and has really sort of built and grown there, and they've found it to be incredibly useful to moving forward. Right. This conversation around transportation access. And so and they're at a place where they can, you know, ask elected officials and hold them accountable and publicly, you know, talk about the folks who said yes, who are highlighted there on the website.
00:00:25:09 - 00:00:29:20
Anna Zivarts
And then they also have a, you know, a tab of folks who didn't say, didn't respond.
00:00:29:22 - 00:01:01:16
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Anna Zivarts, author of the book When Driving Is Not an Option, steering away from Car Dependency. We profiled this book, when it came out, about a year ago. And, we are going to be talking about the week without driving the campaign, that she helped launch about five years ago and is now in the third year, of being an initiative nationally and internationally.
00:01:01:18 - 00:01:18:22
John Simmerman
So we're going to talk about the data from, this past year and, talk about some of the updates and changes for this coming year. But before we get into that conversation, I just want to say, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns ambassador.
00:01:18:29 - 00:01:37:03
John Simmerman
Hey, it's super easy to do if you're here on YouTube, just click on the join button right down below or navigate over to Active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page and there's several different options. Okay, let's get right to it with Anna
00:01:37:06 - 00:01:42:21
John Simmerman
Anna Zivarts, Thank you so much for joining me once again on the Active Towns podcast.
00:01:42:23 - 00:01:45:06
Anna Zivarts
Yes. Good to be back here, babe.
00:01:45:11 - 00:01:55:18
John Simmerman
I'm chuckling because we had you here, at the fabulous launch of your book. Yay! You focus there.
00:01:55:21 - 00:01:56:17
Anna Zivarts
Nice.
00:01:56:20 - 00:02:15:25
John Simmerman
And, we, we also, did a bike ride together, you know, here in Austin when you were, here to deliver a keynote address for, I think it was the annual Congress for New Urbanism chapter, and, we got to do a bike ride, but we didn't really take any, any video or photos of it.
00:02:15:25 - 00:02:20:21
John Simmerman
There was no, there's no proof that it actually happened. But, we had a ball.
00:02:20:23 - 00:02:27:18
Anna Zivarts
We did. It was so great to get to see more of the city and more of the city from the back of a bike. So best way to explore our new place.
00:02:27:20 - 00:02:48:18
John Simmerman
I love the fact that you were like, game. You were like, heck yeah, let's go out and explore and get out on the bike. And we did a pretty major, bike ride out to the Mueller, community and Mueller development. And, and before we hit the record button, you were saying you were back out of the Mueller development, recently?
00:02:48:20 - 00:02:49:08
John Simmerman
Yeah.
00:02:49:09 - 00:03:05:04
Anna Zivarts
Yeah, I got day. I was there the summer. I was doing a bike ped safety assessment, with knits, for the state of Texas. And I was so excited when they sent us our hotel information that we were staying in Mueller because I was like, this is the best place to have a conversation about land use and safety, right?
00:03:05:06 - 00:03:21:10
Anna Zivarts
Because we can talk about how how can land use actually help us reduce the amount of vehicle miles traveled, the distances and the speeds that we need to travel. And so, I was excited, to be based there and have that sort of frame for the whole conversation around safety.
00:03:21:12 - 00:03:43:22
John Simmerman
And that's such a good point, because a lot of what we're going to be talking about today because, you know, spoiler alert, folks, what we're talking about today is the week without driving. So much of this is dependent on there being legitimate choice and options for people, for mobility to be able to get to meaningful destinations. And so much of that is tied to land use and how we design our cities.
00:03:43:24 - 00:03:59:00
Anna Zivarts
Exactly. Yeah. It is. I mean, I keep on telling people it's like transportation is only half of the equation, right? The other half is where can you live and where do you need to go and how far are those apart. And, you know, if we're not looking at that half, we're really limiting ourselves and the solutions.
00:03:59:03 - 00:04:21:17
John Simmerman
So and you do cover that in your book. I mean, you do talk about the fact that you cannot talk about one without having the other. You talk about the fact that you know, you have to have affordable, plentiful housing that's close to the meaningful destinations that people are needing to get to. So it's not like, you know, from a land use perspective.
00:04:21:17 - 00:04:40:14
John Simmerman
It's not just like, you know, building, you know, incredibly expensive mansions, you know, that added it. It's like, you know, people need to be able to have the ability to live one's life and not feel like you have to be dependent on a car, because many of us in our society are non drivers.
00:04:40:16 - 00:05:01:00
Anna Zivarts
Exactly right. And it it shouldn't be a luxury either. You know, I mean to, to be able to get where you need to go. And unfortunately because of the high cost of housing and because people do want to live in walkable, transit rich neighborhoods, those neighborhoods are often expensive neighborhoods. And so, you know, people who really need that connectivity are priced out in so many parts of our country, not everywhere.
00:05:01:00 - 00:05:16:18
Anna Zivarts
Right. There's there's examples of it not being the case, but, a lot of times, you know, when we do then go to build that affordable housing, well, where is land? Cheap. It's cheap on the outskirts of communities and that's where it goes. And then people get even more isolated, who can't afford to drive or can't drive.
00:05:16:20 - 00:05:29:19
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent point. Well, for those, who don't know who you are, let me turn the, the this over to you for a little 32nd to introduction. So who is Anna?
00:05:29:21 - 00:05:48:00
Anna Zivarts
And so, I guess I'll start. So I'm. I'm low vision. I was born with a visual impairment called nystagmus, and it makes my eyes shake a little bit all the time. And that means that I do not see well enough to drive. And that's been sort of a defining, feature of my life and has shaped, very much, you know, where I am.
00:05:48:01 - 00:06:20:17
Anna Zivarts
And with the work I do, for a long time I lived in New York City, and it was actually it was great to live there for me because, I didn't have to define my life as much as as someone who couldn't drive. Now I'm back in Washington state, and it is a much more sort of a limiting factor of the places I go and the people I'm friends with, the activities I do, what I do, now is organizing other non drivers and, started that work, working at Disability Rights Washington, which is a disability advocacy organization here in Washington state.
00:06:20:20 - 00:06:43:28
Anna Zivarts
I just left, about a month ago, in October 2025 to launch a new organization. That's gonna. Yeah. Take this to the next level. There we go. The non driver's alliance. And so, you know, as I was working at disability rights in Washington, what I came to see is that, you know, people who can't drive because of disabilities are just part of this larger community of non drivers.
00:06:44:01 - 00:07:04:13
Anna Zivarts
There are so many folks who are too young to drive, who have aged out of driving, who can't afford to drive, who don't have a valid license to drive, or who are voluntary non drivers who are choosing not to drive because you know, they can set up their lives in ways that it works great, not too and all together we can be a movement that pushes for less car dependent communities.
00:07:04:13 - 00:07:28:27
Anna Zivarts
And so that's what we're doing with the non drivers Alliance. We've got two specific projects we're launching with. One is organizing non drivers and transit reliant non drivers here in Washington state. To get representation on transit boards to make sure that our transit systems are serving our needs. And the other one is to support the ongoing growth of, weak without driving both nationally and internationally.
00:07:28:27 - 00:07:44:14
Anna Zivarts
And so, my colleague Ruth Rosas, who was formerly at American Walks, she's joining me shortly, to really take the lead on that that week without driving work. And so it's, exciting to be launching this and be working with her to, to grow.
00:07:44:16 - 00:08:20:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you mentioned week without driving. So let's pull up, the graphic from, this year here, we've got the week with, driving, which was just happened September 29th through October 5th. I happen to have been in, Boulder, Colorado that week. Operating as a non driver. I was able to get around, for that entire week, going about doing my on bike interviews and, doing an entire adventure, actually, with, a fellow, YouTuber, content creator, Ryan Van Duzer.
00:08:21:00 - 00:08:56:26
John Simmerman
He had a little gathering with a whole bunch of people from coming in from all across the country, and we did everything by bike and or transit, etc. that whole week. I loved it, and it was just, you know, to me, it's kind of, I don't know, it's it was kind of a reflex. It's kind of a habit now for me, when I travel around North America and Europe, for that matter of having my Brompton bicycle and having access to good transit, I can kind of get to where I need to get to, whether I'm, you know, going from Boulder down to Denver, I can jump on the bus.
00:08:56:26 - 00:09:21:11
John Simmerman
There's a wonderful, flat iron flier bus that gets me down there. And it's it it's just natural for me. It's instinctual. It's habitual and instinctual for now, for me to do that. But that's not the reality for most people in North America. Hence the week without driving give, you know, give us a little more of a background on what this is all about.
00:09:21:11 - 00:09:23:07
John Simmerman
The week without driving.
00:09:23:10 - 00:09:44:29
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. And to start with the background, maybe I'll start with where it started and how it how it came to be. And so we launched it here in Washington state, in 2021. And so early in the pandemic, I had spent about a year doing interviews with non drivers from throughout our state, sort of as a, as a political organizing tool and as a way to collect stories.
00:09:45:01 - 00:10:03:26
Anna Zivarts
And it was we really were intentional about wanting to make sure that we were collecting stories from non drivers. And every single one of our 49 legislative districts here in Washington state, because we had this experience of going to the legislators and asking for more funding for transit or for sidewalks and hearing, oh, well, everybody in my community drives.
00:10:04:03 - 00:10:21:08
Anna Zivarts
Nobody needs nobody uses the sidewalks, right? Nobody walks anywhere. And we knew that wasn't true. But we needed the stories in the data to back it up. And so that's, that's sort of we done these the story collecting and then, then we were ready to go back to those same elected officials and, leaders of agencies.
00:10:21:08 - 00:10:59:18
Anna Zivarts
Right. And other people working in transportation and land use and say, hey, look, we want you to try for a week to get around without driving yourself to experience what it's like for the community members in your community, who exist, who are not drivers to navigate their daily lives. What is that experience like? And, and then we offered to connect them and introduce them to non drivers in their communities so that they could hear about the experiences of other people who maybe had different barriers, different disabilities, different economic situations, different caregiving situations, so they could, you know, expand their awareness, beyond sort of their own experience and also learn from,
00:10:59:21 - 00:11:03:10
Anna Zivarts
from non drivers, who they represented.
00:11:03:12 - 00:11:38:06
John Simmerman
It's, you know, an example. We use this example all the time in active mobility advocacy and transit advocacy, advocacy efforts. To try to get city staff and city leaders, to be able to appreciate and have better empathy for what it's like to be able to get around, in another way. A great example, you know, a trick of the tree that's been used, I think I first saw Dan Burton use it of, you know, always having a wheelchair handy.
00:11:38:08 - 00:11:58:25
John Simmerman
You know, when we when doing a walkabout and a walk on it so that you can put the director of transportation or planning, you know, into that wheelchair and say, okay, try to get around, try to navigate as we do this, this walk it. Same with somebody with a visual impairment such as yourself. It's like, okay, how are you going to be able to get around and navigate in your environment here?
00:11:59:02 - 00:12:17:04
John Simmerman
And so what I love about this particular initiative, the week without driving is it helps emphasize or, you know, helps support that ability to have a sense of empathy and awareness of what it's like to try to go a week without driving.
00:12:17:06 - 00:12:39:03
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. You know, and I think it's important, you know, for, for elected leaders and others who are doing this who normally do have the privilege of driving to to say, okay, yeah, my, my experience like it's not a simulation of disability. Right. Like my experience is not going to be the same as someone who, you know, has a disability or someone who, you know, so it's say, you know, if you can afford to take a ride, hail anywhere you need to go.
00:12:39:05 - 00:13:00:24
Anna Zivarts
And you don't have that that economic pressure of not having that escape hatch, it's a different feeling than saying that you have to rely on the bus. And when that bus doesn't show, you miss that doctor's appointment. Right. And so we want them, you know, to, to see that and recognize that, but also to listen to community members and to know that there are community members who can't and don't drive in their communities.
00:13:00:24 - 00:13:25:10
Anna Zivarts
And so for it, for me, it really is like, let's it's about this awareness of, non drivers and involuntary non drivers, people who aren't doing it because it's, you know, easy or comfortable. It's because they don't have other options. And so and it really has I think started and deepened that conversation in so many communities about the existence of non drivers and that that we are such a large percentage of the population.
00:13:25:10 - 00:13:45:17
Anna Zivarts
And I think that that part is also a shock to many decision makers. And the public. Right. Who thinks, okay, everyone drives the reality is that about a third of us don't. And the IRC just came out with a really cool research, showing that 36.6% of the US population over the age of ten are non drivers.
00:13:45:19 - 00:14:05:19
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. Yes. There we go. That's the website. Yeah. Check it out. You can look it up by your state. You can even go down census tracks, and dig in deeper into the data. And I think, you know, I was just in DC talking to folks on the Hill about, transportation issues, and this data was eye opening.
00:14:05:25 - 00:14:34:23
Anna Zivarts
And I think also really helped us have a conversation about unmet transportation needs and so many communities, both urban and really rural. Right? There are lots of rural non drivers. So just want to point out that data and say that, you know, the week without driving really is about uplifting, the stories of non drivers, the existence of non drivers and what it would take for us to, you know, have a community where everyone, whether or not you can drive can still get where you need to go.
00:14:34:25 - 00:14:57:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I mentioned that I was in Boulder and Darcy Kitching at the Boulder, chamber, transportation connections, who was at impact, let me know that, her team put together, a wonderful profile of a variety of folks who, you know, were this is not something, you know, every week is a week without driving.
00:14:57:17 - 00:15:21:00
John Simmerman
And so, for they tried to highlight some of these individuals that are, you know, living in Boulder and, and where every week is, is about this. And that's kind of to your point, too, is this initiative is to enhance awareness and, and, and give, you know, others a sense of what this is like, so that we can move things forward.
00:15:21:01 - 00:15:45:20
John Simmerman
We can get change, we can get policy change, we can get changes on the ground. But at the same time, even for organizations and entities and locations around the country, like, what happened there in Boulder, with the boulder, chamber transportation connections, they were participating. What were some of the data points for this week?
00:15:45:20 - 00:15:56:11
John Simmerman
This year? How many do give us an indication as to how many entities and groups that you know of? Because I'm sure some happened. Know you didn't even know about.
00:15:56:12 - 00:16:14:13
Anna Zivarts
Exactly. Yeah. And we're still collecting that data. Right. And we're still we have some surveys out around, you know, participation, and, and getting folks to share their stories around, you know, what worked most. You know what we were able to pull news stories. We've been going through social media. We've been collecting, examples from all over the country and the world.
00:16:14:14 - 00:16:37:09
Anna Zivarts
We know that we had over 600 co-hosting organizations from all 50 states and 14, international communities, which is pretty cool. And over a thousand elected officials, from 49 states participated, as well as some other, international folks. And so that's great. We had tons of media coverage. And I think, you know, I was actually, you know, we mentioned impact.
00:16:37:09 - 00:17:00:12
Anna Zivarts
I was just there this week and someone came up to me from Lexington, Kentucky, and they described to me how, you know, this the week without driving has allowed them as local organizers and folks who are trying to, to start a conversation about how we make communities work better, with, with less car dependance has really allowed them to build, a coalition and a broader coalition around these issues.
00:17:00:12 - 00:17:25:02
Anna Zivarts
And I love that because I think when we talk about non drivers, it represents so many different groups of folks, whether that's children or seniors or disabled folks, low income folks, immigrant communities. Right. Choice non drivers with biking and, you know, active transportation communities, transit folks. Right. Transit agencies, public health agencies. Right. And it allows us to, to come to the table and start to have these conversations together.
00:17:25:02 - 00:17:32:25
Anna Zivarts
So I'm excited about this year. And, we're we're going to continue to grow and, see where it goes to, next year as well.
00:17:32:28 - 00:17:51:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Now, you mentioned, you know, some of the, the, the documentation, the TV highlights that are out there, you pulled together, a little video on, you know, some of the highlights that were out there. I'm thinking now would be a good time to play that.
00:17:51:27 - 00:17:53:26
Anna Zivarts
Do you go for it?
00:17:53:29 - 00:17:57:24
John Simmerman
All right. Yeah, yeah. Let's, let's let's do this.
00:17:57:27 - 00:18:18:29
Newsreel Video Montage
Next week marks a day one of a week long effort and idea. People who can drive or afford a car to experience what life is like without personal transportation. Central Oregon Community College is taking part in the National Week without driving. Advocates in the Coulee Region are looking to spread awareness about the difficulties of people who can't own or drive a vehicle.
00:18:19:03 - 00:18:38:27
Newsreel Video Montage
Many of us have cars and enjoy the privilege of driving to where we need to go when we want to. But according to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation, 40% of residents in the city of La Crosse don't drive. Now, this can make life less accessible for non drivers. In order to fully understand what life would be like without a car and how our.
00:18:38:27 - 00:18:40:13
John Simmerman
Public transportation system.
00:18:40:13 - 00:18:49:06
Newsreel Video Montage
Can improve, there is a challenge to try. Not driving is inviting the public to participate in this week without Driving campaign.
00:18:49:06 - 00:18:51:12
John Simmerman
According to Living Streets Lexington.
00:18:51:14 - 00:19:13:21
Newsreel Video Montage
One third of the city's residents are unable to drive, getting to work, buying groceries, making a doctor's appointment without a car. It's a daily reality for them, and in a society like ours built around vehicles, it can present some serious challenges. Mesa County Regional Transportation Office urges you to consider what it be like to try to get to an appointment or go to work without your own car.
00:19:13:21 - 00:19:46:26
Newsreel Video Montage
Grand Valley Transit is inviting community members to join them in a week without driving, an event that lets the community consider the everyday reality of those who don't drive it starts Monday and will let off tonight who have cars experience the city through the lens of non driver. Next week really is an eye opening opportunity to see our city and our transportation system in a different way, and to build empathy for the thousands of Austinites who don't drive the Idaho Walk bike Alliance is challenging people in Pocatello to ditch their cars this week.
00:19:46:26 - 00:20:06:17
Newsreel Video Montage
A Week Without Driving campaign focuses on advocating for more accessible and inclusive transportation options. This week kind of gives you a glimpse into how many things you can do without actually getting in your vehicle. Give it a shot and see what it's like to go one week without driving. The North Coast is taking part in the annual week without driving.
00:20:06:17 - 00:20:35:03
Newsreel Video Montage
This initiative challenges residents, especially local leaders and decision makers, to step into the shoes. Community members who can't drive the coalition for Responsible Transportation Priorities, along with several partner organizations, are behind the annual event. The goal is to help people experience the challenges non drivers face in rural areas like Humboldt, where public transportation options are limited for one full week, Santa Cruz County and Metro are encouraging people to find other ways to get around.
00:20:35:03 - 00:20:47:28
Newsreel Video Montage
Throughout the week, council members from across the county and county supervisors will be riding the bus to get firsthand experience in hopes of remembering their own experiences when voting on infrastructure funding.
00:20:48:00 - 00:20:50:17
John Simmerman
Love it!
00:20:50:20 - 00:21:01:27
John Simmerman
How cool is this to to to like from that original idea of trying to do this and getting it off the ground to seeing it? What is this? The third year.
00:21:02:00 - 00:21:05:06
Anna Zivarts
Our fifth year, third national year this year? Yeah. Okay.
00:21:05:06 - 00:21:38:03
John Simmerman
So third nationally or fifth year in total. I mean, how cool is this the third national year to see and to be able to collect, you know, that information across so many different cities across the nation from all different areas of the country. I mean, that that whole Kentucky thing, you know, you have that that experience that you literally just had earlier this week, you know, backed up by, you know, you know, a poll, you know, you know, a video, little clip that you were able to pull from Lexington, Kentucky.
00:21:38:03 - 00:21:39:19
John Simmerman
How cool is this?
00:21:39:21 - 00:21:59:28
Anna Zivarts
It's really cool. And places, you know, I mean, like Idaho, right? You know, not. No. Everywhere, you know. Yeah. I and I love how this resonates in, you know, it's it isn't not it's not just big cities. Right. And I think that's important to recognize because I think so many sort of sort of, you know, hotbeds of, of active transportation, biking, transit advocacy are in big cities.
00:21:59:28 - 00:22:18:19
Anna Zivarts
That's where there's a lot of density. That's where, you know, there's there's sort of historical resources and groups that do this work. And yet, you know, there's there's really wonderful and exciting work happening in other places, too. And this message is resonating because there are non drivers, right? And a lot of small towns and rural communities, it's not just big cities.
00:22:18:19 - 00:22:22:13
Anna Zivarts
And so I think that that part of it is really interesting and cool to see.
00:22:22:15 - 00:22:46:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. Now this is a streetsblog post that you, published prior to this year, you know, week without driving. And I think that this is a big part of what we need to kind of tease out is, okay, what kind of impact is this week of awareness having nationally and internationally now?
00:22:46:28 - 00:22:59:25
Anna Zivarts
Yeah, this one is cool because people are sort of especially when you go to funders. Right. Like, what is it? What's the impact? You know, sure. It's great to do awareness, but you know, what do you what do you want to change? And I think, you know, what I want to change really is this awareness about non drivers.
00:22:59:25 - 00:23:29:23
Anna Zivarts
I think, you know, it is it is transformational to recognize that a third of the population isn't served by our current transportation system. That is car dependent. Right. And so that part is huge. You know, we've definitely had some some other concrete wins, though. There's folks in the folks in Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania. Pittsburghers, for public transit have been tying this to to campaigns, for more transit funding, for for, for statewide efforts also to support, more, more transit funding and, and resources.
00:23:29:28 - 00:23:53:18
Anna Zivarts
So that part's really exciting in Washington state, we've tied it to campaigns for sidewalks, right. And sidewalk maintenance and to get transit riders, be able to be appointed to transit boards so that those are both sort of out, out shoots of, of this work. The DC folks, greater or greater Washington has found this campaign to be extremely useful.
00:23:53:24 - 00:24:13:17
Anna Zivarts
They, it help them sort of conceptualize this idea of a time tax that transit riders pay. Compared to drivers and starting to sort of think about what, what would it mean, to talk about that and talk about ways to reduce that time tax by having more frequent and reliable transit service. So those are a few examples.
00:24:13:19 - 00:24:40:27
Anna Zivarts
And I think as it sort of continues over time in places, you know, in Washington state now, right, we've done it for five years in a row. And it really does become the sort of basis that folks can reflect on and use as they're working with us, for change. Right, that they know that they had this experience, that it's a experience that connects them to the community members that need this change and that, you know, allows us to to push things forward.
00:24:41:00 - 00:25:11:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you just mentioned, Pittsburghers for Public Transit. This is their landing page, their website here. And I and I love that fact that, you know, we can utilize this momentum that gets, you know, from a, a week of or a day of, you know, these, these types of initiatives that we have to be able to, you know, give some, additional ammo to action alerts and trying to actually get, you know, policy changes.
00:25:11:10 - 00:25:36:09
John Simmerman
And like we said earlier, to get things on the ground. And one of the biggest challenges in North America, of course, with, really that challenge of first and last mile when it comes to public transit, it's like you have to have a welcoming, safe, all ages and abilities, welcoming environment, so that somebody can get and utilize public transit effectively.
00:25:36:15 - 00:25:43:20
John Simmerman
And I think you and I talked about this in, in, in our first interview, because it's a major theme in your book as well.
00:25:43:23 - 00:26:04:15
Anna Zivarts
It is. Right. I mean, it is one of my, collaborators crystal on terrorism is you can't have transit if you don't have the sidewalk, right? Especially for folks who with disabilities. But really for everyone that, we can't just run busses. That's not enough. You got to be able to get get there, right? And it's got to be a safe and comfortable experience if you're going to want to do it.
00:26:04:17 - 00:26:31:17
John Simmerman
Yeah. And as a Brompton guy, you know, I, I'm also like don't forget the fact that that bike train bike bus combination is truly, truly magical in the sense that if you've got a safe and inviting environment, a built environment which encourages active mobility of all types, people rolling and strolling, you know, you have a nine fold, you know, catchment area increase.
00:26:31:17 - 00:26:47:24
John Simmerman
If you can get on a bike and be able to get to a meaningful destination. So that power that I experience when I'm in Denver, when I'm in salt Lake City and I can get on the train, I can get on the bus, I can then know that I've got a safe bit of infrastructure that can get me to my ultimate destination.
00:26:47:27 - 00:26:58:24
John Simmerman
I'm not limited by how far I can walk. I can actually, you know, feel comfortable that, you know, oh, yeah, not a problem. Three miles. I can knock that off in no time at all. I'm an Old Brompton.
00:26:58:26 - 00:27:15:05
Anna Zivarts
Oh my gosh, I could talk forever with you about. Yeah, that sort of bike transit connections and like, what we need to be doing to make that. Because if you, you know, have a traditional two wheel bike or even a Brompton, you can bring that Brompton anywhere with you. But if you're carrying a kid, right, or you have an e-bike, like it gets a lot trickier.
00:27:15:05 - 00:27:36:08
Anna Zivarts
And so how can we have, transit that can accommodate more types of bikes, I think is important. And also just from a technology perspective, maybe be more creative about the bikes. You know, that we have that to give them that sort of boosted capacity for passengers and, you know, cargo and all that. I, I have my dream bike for a while was this Kona that was a long tail Kona.
00:27:36:08 - 00:27:50:06
Anna Zivarts
And I could carry my kid on it, up until he was like six and I could fit it on a bus rack. And that was like, you know, magical. And then he outgrew it. He got too heavy. And, you know, now it's it's tricky because it's not like I can put the E cargo bike on a bus.
00:27:50:06 - 00:27:54:21
Anna Zivarts
It just isn't going to happen. So. Yeah. Good. Sidetrack there.
00:27:54:24 - 00:28:30:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. No sidetrack there. But it's, it's one of the things that because in North America we are dealing typically with distances unless you are privileged enough to live in in New York City or Washington DC, where, you know, living, being a non driver and living a car free or car light lifestyle, is sort of like, oh yeah, this is the most practical and pragmatic thing for me to do because, you know, the built environment, you know, supports that most of North America isn't that most of North America, our trips are longer distances.
00:28:30:24 - 00:28:57:28
John Simmerman
And so leveraging, being able to leverage is safe and inviting all ages and abilities, mobility, network or layers of different networks, the transit network, the the bike network, the pedestrian network, and also the motor vehicle network. Having, you know, have those options are so incredibly powerful and empowering for people who need that mobility choice and those options.
00:28:58:00 - 00:29:14:28
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. No, I was listening to your Brompton episode recently, and was I actually our household just just acquired a third Brompton. So now there's one for each of us, but it doesn't quite fit my kid. He's got to grow a little bit more. And I was like, man, there should be some like kid adaptive Brompton you know handlebar setup or something.
00:29:14:28 - 00:29:32:00
Anna Zivarts
So for slightly smaller people because when he's able to bring that Brompton with us, like the amount of freedom we'll have traveling will be incredible. But I can't you know, I can't bring a kid's bike on an airplane. Right. So, or a train easily. Right. And so, yeah, the brownstones are great.
00:29:32:03 - 00:29:57:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's funny too. And I'm glad we're the conversation sort of shifted in this direction just a little bit, because when it comes to this concept of non drivers and being having systems that are supporting of families, I can't remember where this has, was this Paris that I just saw where they have a whole bunch of the bikeshare bikes now come equipped with child seat on on the back.
00:29:57:05 - 00:30:18:18
Anna Zivarts
Oh that's so cool. That is I mean, I've, I've ridden like the bike share in, New York City with my kid. Not, not in a good way, but, Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really exciting. I mean, and you hear it. See, here in Seattle, so many folks, we have a lot of the lime, you know, sit down and stand up scooters, the sit down ones, you know, you see two people on them all the time.
00:30:18:18 - 00:30:31:19
Anna Zivarts
You see parents and kids all the time. And the stand up ones too, because people need to go places with other people and we're not. You know, I think there's not enough intention around designing micro-mobility forms that that meet that need.
00:30:31:22 - 00:30:58:29
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. So as the dust is settling on the week without driving this year, other than the the data that that we already talked about, what what are some of the things that sort of resonate with you after five years of doing this, three years at the national level, what are some of the things that have really bubbled up and or you're you're excited about, especially looking forward to next year and the years after that.
00:30:59:02 - 00:31:03:06
John Simmerman
And with the Non Drivers Alliance being launched.
00:31:03:09 - 00:31:30:23
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. You know I am really excited to to have this continue to grow and support it. And growing in places where, you know, people might not see themselves as bike advocates or, you know, as transit advocates. And this is sort of a really easy way to start having a conversation. And for communities that maybe are, you know, focus on other, other issues to start talking about, well, okay, if we're focused on health care access, how are people getting to, our doctor's appointments or to our hospital?
00:31:30:23 - 00:31:50:04
Anna Zivarts
Right. It can be such a barrier for non drivers or food access. Right. How are people able to get to grocery stores or to the pharmacy? And really starting to connect it more, and build, a conversation in places where there's not a lot of conversation around transportation access, but it is something that is really impacting people's needs.
00:31:50:04 - 00:32:17:03
Anna Zivarts
So that's sort of where I'm hoping it goes. I think. I mean, one beautiful thing about the week without driving it is that it's so decentralized. And so while Ruth and I, you know, can provide toolkits and guidance and we have some you know, monthly webinars to get people excited about it throughout the year, it really is up to local organizers and local advocacy organizations and local transit agencies right to to take this on and, and shape it the way they want to shape it so it meets their community's needs.
00:32:17:03 - 00:32:39:16
Anna Zivarts
So they're highlighting the needs of of non drivers in their, specific region. And so that part is really cool. That decentralized part because we see, you know, so many cool and interesting and creative ways to celebrate the week and celebrate non drivers and talk about barriers coming out of, you know, different places, whether it's transit bingo or bus ramps or free rides or walk audits.
00:32:39:16 - 00:32:59:23
Anna Zivarts
Right. You know, stickers and events and bike rides. I'm trying to think of like, there's just, you know, so many different cool and interesting ways for, for communities to talk about these issues. And I love seeing that. So every year there's, you know, sort of new and interesting things that that bubble up and, yeah.
00:32:59:25 - 00:33:15:28
Anna Zivarts
So we're looking forward to next year, the dates. I'm just making sure that I had them. Right. So I'm going to read them. But it's September 28th through October 4th. Sunday, October 4th are the dates for next year. All that information about it will be on that week without driving website. We have not updated from this year yet.
00:33:15:28 - 00:33:32:24
Anna Zivarts
We'll be working on that, as we as we get it going. But in the meantime, if you are someone who participated this year in a week without driving, we'd love to hear from you. Whether or not it was part of, you know, an official campaign or with an organization. We have a survey for participants that's up on the website.
00:33:32:27 - 00:33:57:14
Anna Zivarts
We have some really fun prizes that are available, for people who take the survey transit app and, Ireland press, Life After cars donated a book. So we'll be. Yes. Yeah. So we have some good stuff to give away. Parking reform network donations, some swag. So, we will be raffling that, giving away that stuff to, to, folks who respond, to the survey.
00:33:57:14 - 00:34:04:15
Anna Zivarts
So if you are someone who had an experience and want to reflect on that experience for a week without driving, let us know.
00:34:04:17 - 00:34:10:13
John Simmerman
Oh my gosh, I'm now I'm bummed I don't have active town swag anymore. I would like donation swag.
00:34:10:15 - 00:34:15:15
Anna Zivarts
So for next year you'll yeah, hopefully hit you up and, Yeah something.
00:34:15:21 - 00:34:44:22
John Simmerman
Yeah for sure for sure. Well earlier you mentioned, you know, the, the DC transportation equity network area and, and some of the work that's being done there. They came up with a really interesting thing of the score card. Talk a little bit about this, because I think this is one of the interesting things that different organizations, you know, in their respective communities, you know, can can like sort of be transparent and say, yeah.
00:34:44:22 - 00:34:52:14
John Simmerman
And by the way, these are the officials, the public officials that have committed to supporting the week.
00:34:52:16 - 00:35:17:18
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. So this is, a coalition that's coordinated through greater, Greater Washington. And they've been doing work without driving now for a couple of years. And as really sort of built and grown there, and they've found it to be incredibly useful to moving forward. Right. This conversation around transportation access. And so and they're at a place where they can, you know, ask elected officials and hold them accountable and publicly, you know, talk about the folks who said yes, who are highlighted there on the website.
00:35:17:18 - 00:35:42:10
Anna Zivarts
And then they also have a, you know, a tab of folks who didn't say, didn't respond. And so I think that's, that's, you know, great for for them to start to, to hold people accountable. I think, you know, that's something I aspire to do more in Washington state as we grow our base of transit riders here and, and communities across the state is using it as a way to engage with folks who maybe, you know, transit isn't a big part of their daily lives.
00:35:42:12 - 00:35:49:09
Anna Zivarts
But they're on the transit board, right. And so how how can they engage with the constituency that they, they can learn from?
00:35:49:11 - 00:35:52:08
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's so true.
00:35:52:10 - 00:35:54:12
Newsreel Video Montage
00:35:54:15 - 00:36:01:17
John Simmerman
How I mean, we had some indications of this, but how bipartisan is this?
00:36:01:19 - 00:36:23:28
Anna Zivarts
You know, I feel like the non driver frame is something that can resonates across the aisle. Right. Because we're not talking about we're talking about access. And I always start every sort of presentation I have with folks asking them to think about who in their lives, in their, in their community and maybe in their own household, maybe in their family or extended family.
00:36:24:04 - 00:36:47:01
Anna Zivarts
Who do they know who can't drive or can't afford to drive? Maybe is too young to drive, has aged out of driving and you know, and even reflecting on their own experience as a young person who couldn't drive yet. What was that like? How do people in their community get around who can't drive? And it's really interesting because I don't, you know, I've yet to encounter anybody who says, I really can't think of anybody.
00:36:47:07 - 00:37:09:04
Anna Zivarts
And sometimes they do, and then they'll come back to me at the end of my presentation. They'll be like, oh, actually, right. I did think about this. And my, my, you know, brother in law doesn't drive, you know, is and so, I starting there, I think is a place for us to, to begin to say, okay, look like there are people all over this country who, who can't drive in every single community.
00:37:09:04 - 00:37:30:02
Anna Zivarts
And we design a transportation system that requires driving, and then it excludes people who really want to be able to, you know, have jobs, go to doctor's appointments, meet with friends, have coffee, go places right. And that doesn't have to be that way, right? It's not. It does. It can. There are other ways to design communities. There are other ways to connect communities.
00:37:30:04 - 00:37:54:00
Anna Zivarts
There are ways that we can set up systems for, even in more rural areas, for people to have access, and reliable access that doesn't just depend on, you know, asking favors from friends and family, which is great when it works, but, you know, it doesn't always work. And then, you know, people get stuck at home and there's this sort of, like cycle of depression that comes from that isolation, and that isn't something we have to have.
00:37:54:00 - 00:38:13:28
Anna Zivarts
Right? So I, I think that's a message that can really resonate. And in my experience, it does resonate, with everyone. Right? Because it isn't, an experience that's limited to, you know, just big cities or, you know, just folks who want to bike places. Right? It, it's a message that that can resonate more broadly.
00:38:14:01 - 00:38:59:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And and for me, it fits well in this narrative of what I talk about every single day, which is striving to have mobility options for all ages and all abilities is, is that, you know, we're all every single one of us has had a period of, of our life where we were non drivers when we were too young to drive, and then probably every single one of us, if we're lucky, we'll get to a point where we don't drive in the latter half of our life to, as well as just from an abilities perspective or our ability, our, you know, our able ism of being able to do things is is very much
00:38:59:10 - 00:39:18:07
John Simmerman
you know, it can change in, in a moment's notice. And so having that awareness, I think of that. No, literally this isn't just, a wacko liberalism lefty thing. This is what we're talking about. It should resonate with everybody across the political spectrum.
00:39:18:09 - 00:39:39:16
Anna Zivarts
Yeah, yeah. And then, I mean, the affordability piece, too, I think is big, like car ownership is expensive. And budgets for many folks are really, really tight. And, you know, even maybe your household has a car, you know, but you're sharing it with a couple of adults or, you know, you don't always have access to that car, because you know, someone else in your household needs to use it.
00:39:39:16 - 00:39:57:01
Anna Zivarts
That is also, you know, you are a part time run driver. And that's great. You know, like, let's let's figure out if if you do need to go places and that car isn't available, how can we make that possible for you? And so, you know, I think that's that's an argument that resonates as well.
00:39:57:03 - 00:40:21:03
John Simmerman
What is your dream in terms of this like really taking off and resonating again across the political spectrum? Is there is there something it at the state level, is there something at the national level that you know needs to happen so that this can take we can take this to the next level?
00:40:21:05 - 00:40:41:02
Anna Zivarts
You know, this started from like a place of me growing up in a pretty rural area, not really feeling, feeling like I was the only person who couldn't drive when I turned 16. Right. And and that isn't true. And that wasn't true. But there just is. You know, I think there's also a shame and a stigma of not being able to drive, especially if you can't afford to.
00:40:41:04 - 00:40:58:26
Anna Zivarts
And so, and there's obviously a lot of shame and stigma around disability. Right. And people aging out of driving. Right. And so, part of it is like, I want it to be normalized to be a non driver and then I want it to feel and that's, you know, a goal at every sort of jurisdictional level, right.
00:40:58:26 - 00:41:16:24
Anna Zivarts
Is like, let's let's have that be a normal experience. Let's accept I think there's been part of what's been interesting about this, you know, writing a book and talking about it and talking about non drivers is the sort of pushback, that I get around. Oh, well, there can't really be that many non drivers, right. That that data is not is not real.
00:41:16:24 - 00:41:43:02
Anna Zivarts
That's not good. You know everyone drives and I think that comes from this place of well okay rich people can afford to drive. You know able bodied people can can drive. Right. And you know, documented people can drive and, and, and really, it, we there are a lot of non drivers, but it tends to be folks that get pushed to the margins or are, you know, trapped at home and aren't able to go places.
00:41:43:02 - 00:42:14:29
Anna Zivarts
You know children as well right. Not voting yet don't count. Right. And so we're not. And so changing that that you know really becoming a political force because there are so many of us, becoming, you know, having the agency then to begin to, to work, to shift where we're investing in transportation to push back on, projects that just expand road capacity at that, you know, and that actively, often makes it more difficult to be someone who's trying to move outside of a vehicle.
00:42:14:29 - 00:42:37:02
Anna Zivarts
Right. Or that makes kind of community more dependent. So I think it becomes sort of a political question of, right, okay. First of all, insisting that we exist and then second beginning to to build political power so that we can better design communities that work for the very large number of us who aren't being served, very directly, aren't being served by car dependency.
00:42:37:02 - 00:42:57:05
Anna Zivarts
I think a lot of larger, bigger picture. A lot of us aren't being served, even drivers. There's a lot of like, okay, maybe this isn't, you know, the best system from a public health or resources perspective. But, you know, for for those of us who can't drive, we are actively excluded from the system. And so having that that agency in that, urgency and shifting things.
00:42:57:08 - 00:43:32:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I like to say to that, you know, from a community design perspective, there's there's nothing that aligns, you know, better across the political spectrum than a community that really can work for everybody from a mobility perspective, to have mobility choice in options, that, you know, engenders empowerment of mobility and freedom of choice. I mean, these are these are words that I think people can recognize of, like independence and freedom.
00:43:32:27 - 00:44:05:05
John Simmerman
These are good things. And, and everybody should get behind, and, and understand that, you know. Yeah. It's like, even as a driver, if I choose to drive on any given day, I will benefit from the fact that other drivers, maybe, who have the choice and the option of a different mode, choose to take that different mode, because you just mentioned it, because if there's too many drivers that it doesn't even work well for drivers.
00:44:05:07 - 00:44:24:02
Anna Zivarts
I think there's also a resiliency piece too, right? With having multiple sort of multiple options. And I think about this like in my life, I'm super lucky that I can live in Seattle and a place where I have can walk to the light rail and about a mile or there's two busses, right? And if one of those systems gets messed up, I can switch to a different one.
00:44:24:02 - 00:44:41:06
Anna Zivarts
If all of them get messed up, I can bike. Right. And, you know, having those that sort of resiliency, that redundancy is, is important. Because inevitably, you know, things break down. And we want to have, that, that, that, that backup. So.
00:44:41:08 - 00:44:42:03
Newsreel Video Montage
Well, and.
00:44:42:03 - 00:45:04:28
John Simmerman
You mentioned something there, you know, from a resiliency perspective, and having that backup in case of those times when things don't work. But there can be other times when you're like, oh, it's a beautiful day. I actually would prefer to jump on the bike and do this, you know, or I would prefer to do that, you know, that as a walk instead of, jumping in a motor vehicle of any kind.
00:45:05:01 - 00:45:32:05
John Simmerman
And so it's again, having this is, is one of the things that I love about the Dutch, mobility system that exists there is they have that redundancy of mobility networks where you can mix and match and choose, you know, you can drive, certainly, or you can choose to walk, bike, use public transit. I mean, that is from your perspective in what you just said there is there's a resiliency to that.
00:45:32:05 - 00:45:55:21
John Simmerman
You have the options, the choice, and then you have your backup options too. That's brilliant. Yeah. Any final thoughts, Anna, that, that we haven't yet shared with the audience that you want to make sure you leave them with in preparation for next year and what we can do in the interim and how, folks can get engaged.
00:45:55:21 - 00:45:57:25
John Simmerman
Involved.
00:45:57:27 - 00:46:19:10
Anna Zivarts
Yeah. I mean, I would say, I begin for me, it's always that first conversation of like, thinking about the non drivers. Right. In your community and in your life and your, your, neighborhood, in your sort of social circle and starting there and, and having conversations with people and maybe you don't know them yet, but maybe take this as an opportunity to, to have that conversation.
00:46:19:15 - 00:46:39:21
Anna Zivarts
What is working, what is not working for for mobility for you and in our community? Like what can we begin to shift? And I think building those relationships allows us to start to build a deeper, stronger coalition for change. So that it's not, you know, often bike and, and sort of, transit groups or urbanist groups tend to be a lot of folks with a lot of choices.
00:46:39:21 - 00:47:09:26
Anna Zivarts
And that's great because, you know, they have the time, you have the resources, you have the capacity to show up and organize. And, but what would it mean to begin to bring in a broader coalition of folks who don't have as many choices? To be part of that conversation about what what it would take to move away from car dependance, because I guarantee you that people who can't drive have a lot of thoughts about how to make the system better because we are sitting there, you know, hours a day waiting for a bus to show up, you know, walking down a highway without good infrastructure.
00:47:09:28 - 00:47:39:05
Anna Zivarts
Thinking about, gosh, if only that pharmacy hadn't closed, I'd, you know, not have to make this trek across town. And so, you know, having those conversations help inform, what we're asking for and what we're pushing for and and inform the way we're engaging with decision makers. Because I think it also makes a really compelling argument. When you start to bring in folks who have less choices into the conversation, into the room, and make an argument for why the system is broken and needs to change.
00:47:39:05 - 00:48:00:06
Anna Zivarts
So that's my advice. Sort of big picture. And, you know, for small picture, check out week with our driving.org. If you do have a story you want to share with us about last year, great. And, starting in the new year, we'll be having monthly webinars with different folks who have tried different tactics and done different sort of strategies to engage folks for a week without driving.
00:48:00:09 - 00:48:16:09
Anna Zivarts
So you can go there. You can actually look at all those old webinars on YouTube currently, if you're interested in sort of exploring, what it's like, for folks, but come, come join us in the New year as we, get ready, for a week without driving 2026.
00:48:16:12 - 00:48:42:12
John Simmerman
Fantastic. And, and also, head on over in addition to the the week with about driving dawg go on over to non drivers.org. And for those of you in Washington there's a little forum here. If you are if you rely on transit and paratransit and you live in Washington state, please also, register through that form there.
00:48:42:15 - 00:48:47:02
John Simmerman
They and that's for those weekly seminars that are going on webinars. Seminars.
00:48:47:04 - 00:48:49:19
Anna Zivarts
Yeah, I got one started in about 20 minutes.
00:48:49:19 - 00:49:00:13
John Simmerman
So yeah. Okay. Well, I better let you go. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so very much for joining me once again on the Active Towns podcast in. This has been such an honor and pleasure having you on once again.
00:49:00:16 - 00:49:02:27
Anna Zivarts
Thank you so much. Done. Good to see you.
00:49:03:00 - 00:49:19:17
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with NSU Arts, and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and be sure to ring that notification bell.
00:49:19:19 - 00:49:40:25
John Simmerman
And again, if you're enjoying this content here in the active towns channel and find it helpful, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. He's super easy. You can just hit the join button right here on YouTube or navigate over to Active Towns Dawg. Click on the support tab at the top of the page, and there's several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter.
00:49:40:25 - 00:50:05:17
John Simmerman
Patrons do get early and free access to all this video content, but you can also make a donation to the nonprofit. Or you can buy me a coffee. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers! And again, just want to send a huge thank you to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting your channel financially via YouTube memberships YouTube super thanks.
00:50:05:21 - 00:50:14:20
John Simmerman
As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and joining my Patreon, every little bit adds up and is very much appreciated. Thank you all so much!