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In a world that feels increasingly chaotic, uncertain, and hard to make sense of, Realms of Curiosity with Sarah and Wendy offers a different kind of conversation.
Drawing from shamanic practice, psychology, and decades of firsthand experience with non-ordinary reality, Sarah and Wendy explore the deeper forces shaping our inner and outer worlds—from intuition and consciousness to deception, transformation, and the shifting nature of truth itself.
They don’t claim to have answers. Instead, they follow curiosity into the unknown—questioning, exploring, and inviting you to do the same.
Because in times like these, curiosity might be one of the most powerful tools we have.
Welcome to Realms of Curiosity. Listen in as two friends explore the mysteries of the Universe through the lens of their otherworldly experiences.
Sarah:Hi Wendy.
Wendy:Hi Sarah.
Sarah:How are you doing?
Wendy:I'm doing well, thank you. How are you doing? Was that believable?! Everything's fine.
Sarah:Everything's fine. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm good. I mean, I'm really good considering, you know, the state of it all, the burning fires across Canada, the smoke infused. Are you getting smoke there?
Wendy:Or you are Yeah. Yeah. We've been getting smoke. Today's a decently clear day, but I was smelling it last weekend. Yeah.
Wendy:It's crazy. Crazy. Yep. But right on point. I just, dropped an episode on my other podcast.
Wendy:Today is the final episode of season eight, Lucid Cafe. Woo hoo. And it's with my buddy, Linda River Valente, who's an astrologer. And she she did a forecast for the last half of twenty twenty six.
Sarah:And can you give me the sort of?
Wendy:It will be- she was trying very hard to to talk about how challenging it's going to be without it sounding dire. Yeah. It it just sounds like if her read on the chart is accurate that a lot of systems are gonna be struggling to stay alive if they do.
Sarah:Well, they already are.
Wendy:I know. I was I was trying to be kind.
Sarah:Oh, okay. Is she typically accurate in her in her forecasts?
Wendy:Well, this one is a big one. I guess all the astrologers out there are talking about this. I guess there's some rare configurations at this point in time that speak to challenging times.
Sarah:Well, that sounds about right.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. But it might get more challenging is the point. Yeah. And I don't know exactly what that looks like.
Wendy:And that's kind of what Linda was saying in our conversation. She wouldn't make any predictions regarding how that would look, which I think is smart because I don't think anybody will know how it looks.
Sarah:Well, and it's not good for your business if you're an astrologer and you make very specific predictions and they're wrong.
Wendy:And you're wrong? Yeah.
Sarah:Because the thing about predicting, it's it's I find it's always got to do with whether it's astrological predictions or intuitive predictions. It your interpretation of the information that you get can be slightly off what you think it means when you're doing the predictions. Like, don't you find that?
Wendy:Oh, yeah. Or a lot off.
Sarah:Or a lot yeah. A lot off. That's right.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. No. We were talking about channeling in a previous episode. That's why I'm leery because there's a lot of predictive content.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Sarah:The Pleiadian predictors are losing their minds these days.
Wendy:There's so many people talking to the Pleiadians.
Sarah:I know.
Wendy:They're very popular.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Well, so you had an inspiration this morning.
Sarah:Yeah, I had a dream and I woke up from it and I thought, Oh, we haven't really talked about mental health. I'm glad it's called mental health now and not mental illness the way it used to be called. I'm glad that switch has been made in our world framing. But yeah, it just felt and it was a strong intuition that I thought, we haven't even mentioned that. And given that we both work therapeutically in the world, it might be interesting to talk about how the spiritual can be drawn into the healing process in the psychological.
Sarah:Shamanism is so much about healing, and so much about healing is psychological, and that whole realm of things. We really haven't mentioned it. So I thought, Oh, that might be interesting to throw it on the table and see what we come up with.
Wendy:Absolutely. So ready, go. I was just gonna say, so talk.
Sarah:That's so funny. We both had the exact intuition on that. You start. No. You start.
Wendy:Did it again. Alright. Well, I was just gonna ask you, do you remember the dream and what was in it that made you think of that?
Sarah:I was talking to somebody. I don't remember who, probably some Pleiadian or other. It was a spiritual, I it, I mean, I'm embarrassed to say, I think it was one of my spirit guides who's of that ilk. And she and I were having this discussion about mental health. And she said, Why don't you talk about that today?
Sarah:Because I had gone to sleep thinking, I don't know what we're going to talk about tomorrow. Like, I often have this panic that I don't know what we're going to talk about. And then it formulates within the next twelve hours somehow. I mean, with you having suggestions, it's not all me who has to think it up. But we do seem to bounce back and forth on it.
Sarah:You think of things, I think of things. Anyway, so it suggested that that be because, you know, I find the people who I work with because in California, I can I can very easily involve shamanism in the psychological healing process? I think in Vermont with your license, etcetera, there's a slightly different angle on that. Is that true?
Wendy:Well, think anywhere with the license, I would have to be careful.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:Yeah. And so I I do keep those practices very separate. Yeah. Although if somebody comes in for a talk therapy session, they will see my altar next to them
Sarah:with Exactly.
Wendy:With a sheep skull on it and and all kinds of I love bones, and there's a giant bison jaw. And so, yeah, I mean, there are hints and a giant frame drum sitting against my altar. But nobody ever really comments about that. Really?
Sarah:People don't say, Hey, what's happening here?
Wendy:Mm-mm. They may think about it, but they don't mention it. I just I get right down to talk therapy business. Don't Yeah. I don't go in that direction at all.
Wendy:If someone were to ask, like, what do you do here? I will tell them, but
Sarah:What's with the bones, Wendy?
Wendy:Yeah. I actually had a a therapy client take a picture of the bones to show his offspring who he thought would be interested in seeing some bones. Yeah. Whatever. Okay.
Wendy:So, yeah, I think you have to be careful. I'm careful with it. I went to school in the olden times, so I I have a certain There's a rigidity around
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:Talk therapy and the approaches that you're using. And I think that's fine because that's what people are expecting anyway when they come. Mhmm. I've created a different sort of umbrella under shamanism that I call shamanic coaching.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:It's like an alternative to talk therapy where I can start using more shamanic language and tools and pull out my drum and they can journey. I teach them how to journey or Right. Right. Yeah.
Sarah:That's what I do with all my clients. It's very blended. The first part of the session is very much just talking about what's happening, what's going on, introducing if it's a first time client, etcetera. But I find the better part of the session is when we and I teach them how to journey. And when we journey to see what are the things we're missing on this that doesn't come from regular talk therapy, it's always the best part of it.
Wendy:So helpful. It's so helpful. I could imagine, yeah.
Sarah:Yeah, it's like you just step into understanding of things. But also, the people who come to me don't come to me thinking I'm a traditional therapist. Because it's only word-of-mouth, and it also says so on my website, they know what I do. So they expect that when they come. But, you know, people often come with the thought that they're depressed.
Sarah:That's a very common entrance position. And when I start talking about them being separate from their soul, or I feel like people who are often called depressed have separated from their soul in such a way that they feel very existentially empty. And that that is being called depressed in our world. And as soon as they start to reconnect with themselves, or see themselves from these different places of consciousness, it really starts to change very quickly how they're feeling. And that's not to say, of course, there are people who are very clinically in trouble, in the big weeds in some way.
Sarah:And those people, I will suggest that they might need medication, etcetera. Not that I do that, but that they go and speak to a psychiatrist and get certain kinds like if somebody is, you know, like I said, in the thick weeds of danger zones or something
Wendy:like that.
Sarah:You know, it's not everything that can be remedied right away from the work that I do. I think there are other things sometimes that need to be in place, too. But mostly not. It's just the people who end up here, it's, I don't know, maybe ten percent that are on certain kinds of medications Okay. Or need to be.
Sarah:I don't know. Do you suggest people get medications? Or what's your
Wendy:I sure do when someone's functioning is really Yeah. Compromised.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:They're really struggling to get through their daily lives or they've been in a in a depressive state for so long. I think depression is so it is complex too because it it could be the result of severe trauma from childhood that has never really been looked at.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:It could be the result of really unhealthy belief systems about the self and having extremely low self worth, and it could and a combination of the two.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Wendy:It could be situational. It could be due to loss. Loss of a job, loss of a relationship, loss through death.
Sarah:Or other underlying things like the depression could be happening because they're they're bipolar, or they have some of these other issues that they've been struggling with for so long, and they end up depressed.
Wendy:Right. I'm always curious about those diagnoses.
Sarah:Really?
Wendy:Yeah. I mean, I just I don't know. And I think our understanding is limited, like, what's going on with
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:Severe depression, severe what they call untreatable depression, bipolar disorders. I don't know. People might say, well, it runs in my family. So the genetic predisposition for it. I that's I have a question mark about that.
Wendy:Like, is are there there could be genetic markers. Sure. But I also am a fan of epigenetics and the idea that the genes can be turned on and off. So you may not be necessarily destined to express that particular ailment.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. No. It's true.
Wendy:The the tough part about depression is one of the major symptoms is motivation, a lack thereof, a lack of motivation. So treatment is challenging because if the person isn't engaged because they're not motivated, they can just sort of cycle and then feel worse about themselves because they're not having success. And that's another reason why medication might be helpful because it can get them out of the weeds, like you were saying, so that they can maybe function a little bit better and then maybe see a little bit clearer
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And have the motivation to be able to do something Yeah. To help themselves
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Or to see themselves differently. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. My perspective has changed so much since I since the shamanic doors have opened in my life that I'm a little leery of making any firm statements about anything because what my shamanic experiences have taught me about mental health is that there could be all kinds of sources for the symptoms that someone present.
Sarah:Oh, for sure.
Wendy:I mean, past life stuff. Absolutely. And ancestral stuff. So it's complicated.
Sarah:Yeah. And that's why I can't really figure out how one does traditional therapy without the help of the shamanic. Like, I I couldn't because I feel so strongly that that's When you connect with past life issues, which is not usually the realm of most therapists, No. You really find important things there that need to be healed, like soul retrieval, or extraction work, or however you're dealing with that past life thing. This and it really is highly successful in helping people, you know?
Sarah:And so I agree with you that the perspective really changes, you know? And
Wendy:Yeah. You know what you're making me think Nope. Is well, first of all, you're pointing out the conclusion I kinda came to pretty quickly. Even before, I think, shamanic doors opened for me, that happened a couple years after graduate school, and I was practicing as a clinician. Even in grad school, I started seeing the limitations of talk therapy.
Wendy:Yeah. I I think there are limitations to it and I and certainly practicing all these years and again, maybe I'm a shitty therapist, but I I see the limitations. We we we have talked about this in another episode. I think I I recall saying this before, but I think it's worth saying again. Because talk therapy keeps you in the conscious mind.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And most of this stuff we're talking about is in the unconscious. Yeah. And the idea of becoming aware, developing insight of the unconscious can only take you so far. Yeah. Because then you just have a really great reason why you feel like shit or why you behave the way you do or react the way you do or whatever.
Wendy:Yeah. But it doesn't really resolve it, in my opinion. But, yeah. And so when I started practicing shamanism and seeing the possibilities were limitless there, like you're suggesting, it just made so much more sense to me from a health perspective in general. Yeah.
Sarah:Because there's so much of mental health that is contained in the body. And if you don't have an avenue to explore those things I mean, therapies do
Wendy:now. Somatic therapies.
Sarah:Yeah, exactly. They do explore what's in the body.
Wendy:Which is really promising, yeah.
Sarah:Yeah, it's really promising. And some of the therapies that involve psychedelics, I find so fascinating
Wendy:Me too, yeah.
Sarah:That's like opening it up. It's, you know
Wendy:Well, it's shamanic.
Sarah:It's shamanic, exactly.
Wendy:Territory that people are going to. It's just using psychedelic medicines to get you there. Exactly.
Sarah:I find it so interesting. I've never done anything like that myself in the therapeutic way, but I find it really interesting. And many of my clients have. And they have found it to be very helpful.
Wendy:Yeah, yeah. It's a shame that MDMA didn't get approved by the FDA.
Sarah:What was it supposed to and then it didn't?
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah, it did not. They got so close.
Sarah:And why did they not approve it?
Wendy:Rick Dobbins, the guy who was trying to make it happen, I think since the 1980s, he's been working on this. The last step that they I I may be wrong. I think it was the last step of the approval process. They decided there wasn't enough data or something to be able to satisfy them that I think it was going to be, approved for post traumatic stress disorder treatment. I think I could be misremembering all of this, so keep that in mind.
Wendy:But it's a shame. It just I think it was last last year or the year before. Time is so fucked up now.
Sarah:Is it time that's fucked up, or is it our perception of time that's fucked up? I wonder.
Wendy:Oh, perception. Yeah, I would go with perception. Yeah. Anyway. But yes, psychedelic medicines are really promising.
Sarah:Really promising. And I don't know, there seems to be plenty of it happening here, legal or not legal. Does seem Really? To
Wendy:Yeah, there's this whole under the radar network, I think.
Sarah:Yeah, under the radar. California is always like miles ahead. They're always like good ten years ahead of what happens elsewhere. And it seems to be happening with some regularity in Beverly Hills offices. Oh, really?
Sarah:Oh, really. Yeah, exactly.
Wendy:I imagine you hear all kinds of stuff in your work.
Sarah:Well, yeah. People come and they tell me what happened, you know, when they have these experiences. And they have experiences here, and that encourages them to think about some of these other areas of exploration.
Wendy:I bet it really helps with their integration too.
Sarah:It real you mean working with me?
Wendy:Working with you after their psychedelic experiences. A 100%. Yeah. A 100%.
Sarah:Yeah. And in fact, that's something I wanna get into more is is being an integration healer for people who have had psychedelic experiences. It's something I'm planning on looking into because I think it's really important. And a lot of people don't get enough. You know, they go for an Ayahuasca weekend, and then they come home, and they're like, wah.
Wendy:Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Sarah:Any avenue to figure out what's happened or why or how. And it's really helpful to journey to the Ayahuasca experience that you had shamanically journey and and to bring forth because that's a very powerful experience. And and how do you know what to do with that? You know? So that Yeah.
Wendy:I was just remembering that I went to the psychedelic conference a couple years in a row here in Vermont. They got some really great speakers
Sarah:Oh, that's fun.
Wendy:For health care providers to attend. Nice. And almost every presenter talked about how the real work begins when the medicine is out of your body.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Well And that made a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Because you kind of get this glimpse. I've never done psychedelics except for psychedelic cannabis, but that's a whole different thing. But it's like you get a glimpse of these possibilities or you get a glimpse into the wounding.
Wendy:Yeah. And then it's like, now what? Now what? Or your ego is dismembered. Yeah.
Wendy:And now what?
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. No. It's really true. So I think there's
Wendy:a need for people who are integration Resources Yeah.
Sarah:Specialists. Exactly. Yeah. And I've even thought it might be interesting, here in LA, typically next to the weed store is a psilocybin store. Even though it's illegal, I don't know.
Sarah:Oh, kidding. Yeah. I don't know how it happens. And they sell chocolate bars and microdosing stuff all measured out for you. And it's quite interesting.
Sarah:I haven't been to one, but again, my clients tell me about these things. It's a store. A store. Yeah.
Wendy:With a sign. And you can like park and go in and buy psilocybin.
Sarah:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Microdose capsules ready to go for you, different strengths, all the stuff. And then chocolate bars that you, you know, you take whatever you want to have like a full experience or whatever. Okay. I don't know.
Sarah:I'm planning on going just because I'm really curious. I haven't been yet. And so my thinking was that, oh, wouldn't it be interesting? I hope I don't get arrested for saying this.
Wendy:Well, I was just going to say, play dumb if you're there and the cops show up, or the DEA No. Shows
Sarah:Nobody will show up there. What are they going to do? Rest me? Like, no. But my thinking is, it would probably be interesting to have microdosing so that if people come for integration, they could take a microdose and reconnect with the spirit of the psilocybin and have their integration in that way.
Wendy:Or it might be legally more appropriate if you invite them to bring it. Oh, I would. No. Right. Rather than have you supply it.
Sarah:No. No. I would not be supplying anything. No. That's really true.
Sarah:I've considered that in many ways.
Wendy:I thought that's what you meant, sorry.
Sarah:Well, I may have indicated that. But my son actually was the one who pointed that out to me when he said, Mom, are you crazy? So I thought twice the whole thing.
Wendy:Hilarious. Yeah. Thank you, mister.
Sarah:Owe us. Yeah, owe us. Anyway, so back to our original topic of I think the spiritual component of mental health is the most important thing. I really do. Because people are are very the way I see people is that there's a spiritual death that's happening in the current configuration of the world, phones, are they?
Wendy:You mean like a lack of connection to that part of ourselves?
Sarah:Yeah. I mean, that's what I death was an extreme, but that's what I meant.
Wendy:Yeah, I just want to make sure I understood.
Sarah:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, walk around with my dog and nobody walks their dog without their phone on my street. Poor dog. They get fifteen minutes every so often. You can't be like good doggy, you know, you have to be on your phone.
Sarah:I find this outrageous. I really do.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, that's another mental health issue, right? Addiction It to technology. Yeah. It's a
Sarah:thing. It's a thing. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. Like, nobody doesn't have their phone.
Wendy:Yeah. And if you talk about abstaining from using your phone for a bit, you could see a little panic in the face. Not that I'm bringing it up, but just even a mention of it. Yeah. It seems like, oh, that's a tall order.
Sarah:That's a tall order.
Wendy:Yeah. But it changes the brain. I may have mentioned this before, but talking to a psychologist researcher on my other podcast Mhmm. About her research into the effects of social media influencer culture and reality TV on the developing brain. Oh.
Wendy:Yeah. The cohort she studied was, like, 18 to 21, 22 year olds.
Sarah:Mhmm.
Wendy:And it was not good. And so in our conversation, we talked about that study, and then we expanded it to everyone and her observations through her work. And then I talked about mine too. And what her conclusions were from her her research that the I think it's the neocortex starts to atrophy.
Sarah:Oh, shit.
Wendy:What's that? Yeah. Which which is where the higher thinking happens. So critical thinking Yeah. Goes away.
Wendy:And then a reliance on the amygdala. The amygdala takes over, so it's more reactive, more emotionally reactive, which kind of fits with what we're seeing. There's a lot of reaction too with the divisiveness and this us them kind of thing. But, yeah, not not great. So if you think about that and mental health, like, if if the importance of being able to think critically and empathy to be able to actually put yourself in the shoes of someone else to understand their side of things, their perspectives is pretty vital.
Sarah:And also our connection to nature, which is also being diminished by you know, like, for each person walking their dog with their phone. Like they're not looking at the trees or the sky or the like, they're not looking at anything. Not even
Wendy:looking at
Sarah:the dog, like, you know, who they presumably love. Like, you know, they're not even paying attention to that. And, like, how what happens to us if we just have no connection to nature? You know?
Wendy:Well, yeah, we are nature. So Yeah. So that lack of connection to the natural world is, like, almost denying a part of ourselves, I would imagine.
Sarah:That's true. That's a really good point. It is denying ourselves.
Wendy:I mean, because just think about how wonderful it feels to be surrounded by trees to to go in the forest. Right? Or to sit by the ocean or
Sarah:It heals us when we do that.
Wendy:Yeah. You always feel better. You always feel better. Always. If you go hang out and sit on a big rock for a bit, five minutes, you'll feel better.
Wendy:You'll you'll you'll have more clarity. Yeah. Hang out by by a river or a creek.
Sarah:But even in therapy, when when people lay on my table and I drum and they journey to they go to the tree of life and then they go to the upper world or the lower world, these beautiful sacred gardens, it's visionary nature. But we begin our journeys at the tree of life, you know, and I usually ask them to like touch it and just feel the energy of the tree before they continue. And so even if it's just in a journey, I do believe that it's helping them.
Wendy:Oh, yeah. Well, it's the spirit of nature that
Sarah:you're Exactly. The spirit.
Wendy:So it's still that counts.
Sarah:That counts. It counts big time.
Wendy:Yeah. That's why, yeah, journeying is such a a beautiful practice.
Sarah:It is. I'm sorry. My dog is making squeaky sounds. Did you
Wendy:hear him? He's so cute.
Sarah:Yeah. Just a little bit. He's so cute. We go up to the caves every morning at Bronson Canyon, where during the Batman TV show is where it was shot up there. Oh, funny.
Sarah:Yeah. It's really funny. But it's so beautiful up there. The energy. It's just a bowl of rock and, you know, earth, obviously.
Sarah:But just the, like, the energy of this place is so powerful. And I get to be there for like forty minutes, an hour, every morning. And it truly boosts my spirit. You know, I feel I feel joyful when I leave there or even when I'm there. And that makes sense.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Stone medicine is really powerful.
Sarah:Really? Well, standing stones, stone hinge, like all of that, right?
Wendy:Yeah. Or even just a stone. A stone. That you find and you pick up.
Sarah:Here's, like, down from the canyon.
Wendy:Beautiful.
Sarah:And what I liked about it was it was a hard shape.
Wendy:Oh, yeah. Look at that.
Sarah:Crazy. Right? Mhmm.
Wendy:I mean Or not?
Sarah:Or not. I loved it. Anyway, I keep it here.
Wendy:You should marry it. How
Sarah:do you know I haven't?
Wendy:Well, I was just making an assumption, I guess. Stone stone medicine, I will bring this up with clients a lot, especially they're full of worry or anxiety. Same spectrum is just the gift that the stone people offer us is that they are more than happy to take on our burdens. So if you if you hold the stone in your hand I mean, they've been on the planet for eons, and they've seen it all. So their lifespan compared to ours is much grander.
Wendy:And so taking on one one human's worries, concerns is nothing to them. They welcome it. Let me take it for you. So and it's also super, obviously grounding Mhmm. Just to hold the stone.
Wendy:I'm not talking about a crystal. I'm talking about a rock.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah.
Sarah:Big rock.
Wendy:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all around us all the time. It's so lovely.
Wendy:Somebody
Sarah:somebody built a labyrinth behind the caves where we where we go with the dogs, and it's massive stone labyrinth. Cause there's so many stones there. You can just like big stones, medium stones. And it's, you know, the idea of like what we're talking about with the stones, walking the labyrinth. And the idea that I was told about walking labyrinths, the druids, is to, as you walk in, you let go of all the things that are troubling you.
Sarah:And then in the center, you give thanks. And then as you come out, you invite in all the things that are important to be helping you at this time. I mean, so and that makes a difference.
Wendy:Yeah. It's the same concept I was just talking about.
Sarah:Same concept.
Wendy:It's very cool. So cool. Yeah. They're the record keepers too because they've seen it all. Yeah.
Wendy:So if you tune into one, you can get their story, what they've seen.
Sarah:Oh, I've never done that.
Wendy:I remember Hank had us do that in Hawaii on the Big Island. There was this really cool stone on this property, and he had us Woah. Perceive the story of that particular stone's life.
Sarah:Wow. I've never done that. Pretty cool. That's very cool.
Wendy:I wonder if it would be helpful to talk a little bit about illness from the shamanic perspective. I don't know if you were ever taught about that.
Sarah:Yeah. Well, yeah. Go ahead, though.
Wendy:The three causes of illness that I was taught?
Sarah:That language, so I don't know what that means.
Wendy:Yeah. They made a lot of sense to me. Fear, disharmony, and soul loss.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly.
Wendy:The three remedies from the shamanic tradition I was taught are power augmentation, reconnecting you with personal power, extraction of intrusions, and soul retrieval or soul catching is what I call it.
Sarah:Yeah. So it's the same as what I was taught as well.
Wendy:Yeah. They're probably universal.
Sarah:I think so. I do think so.
Wendy:Yeah. But the disharmony, when we're talking about depression like we were before, that to me is an injury of disharmony a lot of times being cut off from something important, another person, a dream, yourself.
Sarah:I find it's mostly yourself.
Wendy:Yeah. Me too. From a mental standpoint, kind of living in the past can also be a big part of depression. Whereas anxiety is more in the future.
Sarah:Yeah. One of the one of the healings that I work with with people, not right in the beginning, but as time goes time goes by, is to change the narrative that made them lose power, lose themselves, whatever, to Love it. And to go back to the thing and change it and make it different than what happened to you. And boy, oh, boy, does that help a lot. I think that's one of
Wendy:the most powerful bits of medicine Yeah. That anyone can use. Right? Because of all those stories that we carry around with us. Come to find out, I would say 90% of those stories have nothing to do with us.
Wendy:No. We've just adopted them.
Sarah:Yeah. But the thing about stories too is the more you tell them, the more they change. Like, you you you add a little spice, you take away a little thing, and we start. So each time the story is told, the memory changes. So you could actually be living with a completely false narrative of what happened, because you've been playing it and playing it and playing it and making it worse or making it different or making you know?
Wendy:It's a great point. Yeah. We are good at that.
Sarah:We're We're super good at that.
Wendy:Yeah. No. That's that damn frontal lobe. All the abstract thought, the capacity for abstract thought, we can get pretty abstract.
Sarah:I did a very important piece of healing in my own work from my childhood. And I this place where I had been very disempowered. And I saw myself as like a 10 year old, and I stood up for myself, and I was so angry. And I said, You. You know?
Sarah:And I changed the whole story. And one could say, Well, so what? Still the bad thing happened. But it doesn't feel like that in my body. It feels like that didn't happen.
Sarah:You know? I was able to take charge of this very bad thing, and it healed. It literally healed.
Wendy:Well, that brings up a really, really important question, which I've been asking more and more lately in my sessions is how do you know when you've been healed?
Sarah:Because you're longer ruminating on on the thing. You're no longer allowing that thing to make you feel disempowered and awful and hating yourself and hating your life. And you're no you're no longer depressed about that thing. You know? You might be depressed about other things still, but that's okay.
Sarah:You work on them. But that thing doesn't doesn't come back to you in the in the soul snatching way that it does in the beginning,
Wendy:you know? So so, like, it's not taking up a lot of real estate in your psyche Not at all. Anymore.
Sarah:Yeah. Right. It it really changes it.
Wendy:And one of the other things that I think is a telltale sign of healing is that if you talk about an event that happened to you, it's not like it's happening to you in that moment.
Sarah:Oh, totally.
Wendy:It's more like a period at the end of a chapter, and you can talk about it. You can reference it, but it doesn't bring up all of the emotions you had. So it's more like you're reporting it from the news desk.
Sarah:Yeah. Well, that happened. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Sarah:It's true. Really true. I I feel that.
Wendy:And it's interesting too because when I ask that question, some people will say that, well, I don't think things can heal, can they? And that belief alone is a setup for an inability for someone to heal. Right? If they believe it's not possible, then Yeah. It's not possible.
Wendy:Yeah. And that gets back to the power of thought and belief. And yeah. And what's reality?
Sarah:You know?
Wendy:Oh, yeah. Again, we we still have to talk about that.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. That was one of our topics for today, potentially.
Wendy:Or yeah. Yeah. Or actually, we had promised it. We'll talk about that next week. It's a few I don't know how many weeks ago.
Sarah:I mean, that's a you know, what is reality? Like, I mean, I have no idea. So it should be a fairly simple episode. I don't know what reality is. We can look at all the possibilities of what I
Wendy:think it's a lot. It's many things. Yeah. No. I think it'd be fun to talk about.
Wendy:Yeah. When we get there.
Sarah:Very invested in the multiple timelines concept now. Which is relevant to the healing that you do when you change the narrative. You change timelines. It's just like, boom, not there anymore. Now I'm in this timeline, where I am not that person who had the thing, you know?
Sarah:It makes sense in that.
Wendy:Yeah. No, it does make sense. I think that'll be a rich conversation.
Sarah:Yeah. But bearing in mind, we don't know.
Wendy:We don't know. No. No one knows. That's the cool thing. All the shit we're talking about, really no one knows.
Wendy:No one knows.
Sarah:But it's such interesting stuff. Like, it it's I find the I I must spend stupid amounts of time thinking about what is reality.
Wendy:I probably spend more than that.
Sarah:More more than stupid amounts?
Wendy:More than stupid amounts. Insane amounts. It's so interesting. Yeah. It's fascinating to me.
Wendy:It's like a puzzle I wanna solve even though it's unsolvable or it seems like it.
Sarah:Maybe when we die, we get it. I don't know. I'm hoping
Wendy:Oh, I'm sure we do. Oh, yeah. Fuck. Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. I hope. Wouldn't it be awful if we still don't know and and the commander of the universe says, you gotta go back and figure it out. I'd be like, no.
Wendy:Do I? Do I really?
Sarah:Do I really? I really don't wanna. I'm done. I'm done with this. What what are my other options?
Sarah:What's on the menu of places I can go next time? Yeah. I I oh, I really don't like the idea of reincarnation back
Wendy:to being a human being. Every time I think about that, I I feel, like, really uncomfortable. I may have said this before, but if I had a dime for every time a client said, this is my last lifetime as a human,
Sarah:I just sort of smile.
Wendy:Yeah. Alright. Yeah.
Sarah:A tough place.
Wendy:You're making that decision from a human perspective. And to me, the part of you that's intending to incarnate is not human and has a much different perspective. So, yeah, I get it from this perspective, but from that perspective, it's a whole different ballgame.
Sarah:Yeah. I agree. I agree. And I don't know what that perspective is because I I do find life to be very difficult. You know?
Sarah:It's a it's a real trip. And and
Wendy:But what if it's not real?
Sarah:I don't think it is. There's there yeah. There's that part of me that doesn't think it's real.
Wendy:Yeah. So so, like, if you can access that every once in a while, it kinda gives you a little distance from the intensity of it because it is intense.
Sarah:Do you think it's not real? Do you think it's some
Wendy:That's where I'm sitting now. Yeah. Again, like we've talked about before, my experience has shown that this seems very much like the dream.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Like, a dream that another part of me is having.
Sarah:Well, that's why you can change it, and that's why you can change the narrative because it is a dream.
Wendy:It's it's Exactly. So you become lucid.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:And you can do that through shamanic journeying. Yeah. Or if you're focused on it enough, then, yeah, then you can there's probably not much you can't do Right. If you become really truly lucid. That's why I think I'm so intrigued by the nature of reality because what's possible and what within the structure of my psyche is preventing me from accessing those possibilities because I can't perceive it.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:I think there's probably so much more that we can experience, achieve, understand.
Sarah:But Something very odd
Wendy:brain is getting in the way. What's what's odd? I can't imagine anything odd happening.
Sarah:Lately, I feel as though I can see outside of this reality all the time. It's it's like it's really hard to explain, and it just started happening about, I don't know, maybe last year. So you know when you when you perceive things are fairly solid in the world. And when you journey, it's like it's like you have an extra vision, right, that you that you go to where you're seeing this whole other
Wendy:Yeah. It's another layer of perception.
Sarah:Another layer. So lately, I mean, I've been journeying for thirty years, thirty five years. I feel as though it's so hard to explain. I feel as though my vision sees the world, and just behind it is like a whole other world going on that I'm aware of, but not aware of. It's like it's registering in a part of my brain that I've not been exercising, but now it's coming into focus.
Sarah:Does that make any sense, Lisa?
Wendy:It sounds cool as hell. Yeah. No. It doesn't sound psycho.
Sarah:Okay. It's not to you.
Wendy:Not at all, Sarah. Everything sounds great.
Sarah:Not at all, Sarah. It's a very interesting feeling. And it's like I need to exercise the part of my brain that's but it's like both are happening simultaneously. And if I can keep exercising that part of my brain, that this new reality, or old reality, or some other reality is is going to become clearer and clearer. It's it's like it's like you're seeing the third eye world simultaneously.
Sarah:Okay. It's a very strange thing and I don't know what to make of it.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, stay tuned. Maybe it'll make more sense to you as as time goes on.
Sarah:It's very good, though. I know it's not a bad thing. It's a very good thing.
Wendy:I can
Sarah:I can feel it being good? Maybe it's because I'm getting old, you know? And maybe as I'm preparing in the future to leave, some part of me is, you know, how when people are dying, they see other worlds? Yep.
Wendy:Or the spirit world or yeah.
Sarah:The the spirit world.
Wendy:Yeah. Or it could be a reflection of a change that's happening in our reality in our reality.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:I know my perceptions are changing as well, not necessarily in the way you're describing, but I can't make any sense of it yet, and I can't even articulate.
Sarah:Oh, this is so interesting.
Wendy:What's happening. Yeah. Try? Try to articulate it?
Sarah:Uh-huh.
Wendy:No. No. I can't I can't I because I I can't even wrap my head around. I've noticed that my perceptions have been changing for some years now. And I just I don't know if it's personal to me or if it's more of a a bigger reflection, but I think the combination of the two that's that's probably the closest, but I can't really make heads or tails of what
Sarah:Is it similar to mine?
Wendy:No. No. It's not like what you're experiencing.
Sarah:Oh. Yeah. I mean, if reality is so the simulation of reality, if something is happening to that program or whatever language you put on it, and it's disintegrating, it kind of makes sense that there's something else happening too.
Wendy:Yeah. That's kind of what I'm wondering is if the dream is changing Yeah. The collective dream
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Which would make sense based on the kind of experiences I've had over the years leading to some sort of transition that is is gonna be happening on planet Earth or has been working towards we've been working towards it for a while now, but now it's like hitting a, like, a critical point.
Sarah:Do you know what that is?
Wendy:I don't know. I mean, lots of people have opinions about it. There's a lot of talk on the interweb tubes about what's going on right now. Some people have some really out there ideas, and some people have some moderate out there ideas about it, but a lot of people are talking about a transition of some sort. It could be an evolutionary step or leap in our consciousness, which sounds like a cool idea.
Wendy:I think that's I'd like that. That would be nice.
Sarah:But think about it. There there certainly is an evolutionary leap going on. I mean, people I mean, just you and I, we're not the only two people thinking the stuff we're thinking. Oh, no. No.
Sarah:This is like, there are many minds out there thinking about this stuff.
Wendy:Well, things are changing. So, I mean, I think we're all trying to make sense of it.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly.
Wendy:And, yeah, What is this all about? I don't know if anybody really knows for sure. There could be people who are close.
Sarah:Yeah. We're
Wendy:talking about reality stuff now.
Sarah:Yeah. We we switched into reality. But, you know, it's funny. What's that Christian thing that they think is happening with
Wendy:You talking about the, like, the rapture or the
Sarah:The rapture.
Wendy:Yeah. The apocalypse?
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they've got a very specific story that they attached to it. But Yeah. That might just be the story to some reality.
Sarah:You know? Hard to know.
Wendy:Yeah. I have no idea about that one.
Sarah:No. I don't know about that one either. I'm just it just came to mind, like, as something similar.
Wendy:Anyway, different Well, in uncertain times, we grapple with understanding. For example, how many doomsday cults are forming as we're having this conversation?
Sarah:Do you know the answer to that?
Wendy:No. I don't know.
Sarah:I've just it's like
Wendy:I'm kind of half joking.
Sarah:Well, I'm sure many. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting times we live in. Mhmm.
Wendy:No. They really are fascinating. Yeah. And challenging.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And I guess, circling back to the beginning of our conversation, we'll see what Linda was saying about the astrological predictions for the second half of this year. And I guess it's gonna be challenging for the next years. Oh, goody. Something to look forward to. Yeah.
Wendy:But change is challenging. Is it because of these astrological shifts that we're having these experiences, or is it just part of the picture? I don't know.
Sarah:Or is it the Pleiadians?
Wendy:It's probably the Pleiadians. Yeah.
Sarah:Must be. Well, I think our time is past here. So more on reality next time?
Wendy:Yeah, I'll give that a shot. We'll give it a shot.
Sarah:We're bold. Yes, we're gonna talk about reality.
Wendy:The nature of reality. Well, it's fun to to just talk about it.
Sarah:Yeah. I I mean, I think so. I could talk about it day and all night, you know?
Wendy:Exactly. It'll be fun. We already started.
Sarah:We already did. All right.
Wendy:I guess I'll see you next time then. Next time, yes.