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In this podcast, I am going to spill the beans about my semester abroad at North Carolina State University in Raleigh. That's going to include traveling tips, college gossip, cool events in Raleigh or nearby, day-to-day college life, restaurant tips and everything else I feel like talking about :) Be prepared to be entertained! This podcast is produced in collaboration with NC State student radio WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2.
Rebecca Schaden 0:09
Hello guys, and welcome to my podcast "BeccyOnTour" about my semester abroad in Raleigh, North Carolina in the United States. My name is Beccy, and I'm your reliable source into the exciting world of American college life. So if that sounds like something you'd be interested in, stay tuned.
Today, we have a guest, Jason Evans Groth, digital media librarian at NC State and former musician. Jason is going to talk to me about his career and life as a musician, what it's like to be on tour with your band, including the differences between touring in the United States and in Europe. So without further ado, let's get into it. Thank you so much, Jason, for taking the time to interview with me today. As you know, I am a big, big fan of music, and I am really excited to hear about your experiences in the musical industry.
Jason Evans Groth 1:28
Thanks for having me.
Rebecca Schaden 1:30
I'm happy you could make it. Can you please introduce yourself stating your name, title, pronouns, current profession, and your dream job growing up.
Jason Evans Groth 1:42
My name is Jason Evans Groth. I am the digital media librarian for the learning spaces and services department at NC State University Libraries. I use he/him pronouns. My dream job growing up was probably being a professional musician. I can't remember not wanting to be that. Although I'm sure there was a mixture of other kind of artistic fields in there, I thought I think I thought I wanted to be a writer at some point. I wanted to be an actor at some point. But musician seemed to incorporate both of those things. So I think that's what I landed on growing up.
Rebecca Schaden 2:20
I think that is really cool. But it's probably a really competitive business to work in. Right.
Jason Evans Groth 2:26
I think so I think people think that's true. I think it's really hard to make a living doing it. I think it is not hard, as hard as we might think to get into it. I think based on certain the way that the way the media portrays, especially like super successful or wealthy musicians, they end up rising to the level of sort of untouchable tabloid style heroes. I mean, the fact that people will use the word Rockstar to describe people who are good at something is strange to me, because most rock stars I know are very tired. Or, you know, maybe very, very hard to talk to. They're not like, they're good at their job. But like Rockstar is more like, you know, seems to have elevated to the level of like movie star or starlet or something. But in reality, getting into music is not that difficult. It's very welcoming. It just takes a lot of practice. It's like everything else. It just takes practice. And I mean, in all regards, not just playing your instrument or writing songs like practice understanding the profession, practice going to see shows, understanding media around it, like how you break into even like playing at like a local coffee shop. Like all those things take practice. So it's impossible to be Beyonce. You know, there's like one in a million people who are that person. It is very, very likely, though, that one could be a musician and not even that unlikely. not that unlikely that you could make money doing it.
Rebecca Schaden 4:10
So we're definitely gonna get into all what you just said and dive into it in a more detailed way. But my second question would be: Before switching gears and starting to work as a librarian, as you said before, you made a living as a musician and traveled the United States and Europe with your band. Just tell me what kind of music did you produce? What instruments do you play? Tell me a little bit about it.
Jason Evans Groth 4:32
Yeah, so the I think the band that like the band that actually was a job all of them are jobs, all of its legit work, but like, the band that was like almost my day job for a long time was a band called Magnolia Electric Company, which I started, well, didn't start but which I joined in 2002 when it was a band called Songs Ohio. And I played guitar in that band. And I did from 2002 until we didn't we never really disbanded we just stopped touring. Yeah, I feel like that was the that was the the one that people will see the most like monthly listeners on Spotify. You say that you were in Magnolia Electric Company, you notice that actually people pay attention. But I joined that band because of like a slew of other bands that I had been in. Like when I joined that band I was in a band called "The Impossible Shapes". I was in a band called "The John Wilkes Booze". I was in a band called "The Coke Dares". I was in a band called "The Cinnamon Girls", I had been in bands called "Cadmium Orange". I'm trying to think of others "Black Cow", several like it had been years and years before I met the people who were all in other bands kind of with me, too, who were who ended up being in that band that that ended up touring the world.
Rebecca Schaden 5:55
Those are very, very interesting names. What was your favorite band?
Jason Evans Groth 6:00
Um, well, that's a good question. I liked I mean, I really liked playing in Magnolia. Because the shows, every show was different that, we had an incredibly gifted songwriter, a guy named Jason Molina, who led the band. And he wrote songs like none of us could and was well regarded as a songwriter before we joined in his, he actually passed away in 2013. Since he died, I think a lot of people have really come out to say how much he and then by extension us have been influenced by him and us. Just really like open songs that are like let us change it on stage every night. So for that reason, I think Magnolia was a favorite, but "The Coke Dares" were three of the guys from Magnolia. We played absolute opposite music. So that is very precise, short songs, often with a lot of humor in them. And it was Jason who led Magnolia and Songs: Ohia, he loved "The Coke Dares", which is why he asked us to be in his band. So you know, just because you play a certain type of music or a certain personality doesn't mean that other people in different domains don't notice. So "The Coke Dares" were my best friends in the music world, "The Impossible Shapes" probably had the most interesting and difficult arrangements. Cadmium Orange was my high school band or college band. So that was where I learned music. So like all of these things, all of them are different kinds of favorites, I can look back, I'm happy to say that none of them were things I didn't like, but I can look back at each of them and think of how all of them shaped me in a positive way.
Rebecca Schaden 7:37
And that is essentially the most important thing, right? That you can look back to good memories and that you just had a good time. I think that is the most important thing in life in general.
Jason Evans Groth 7:48
I would agree.
Rebecca Schaden 7:49
Can you give my audience an insight into the day to day life of a musician? How does it differ from your current job as a librarian?
Jason Evans Groth 7:58
Really, what the day to day life of a musician is, is really is practice. I think the people who are doing this the most, put aside time every day to write or to play or to rehearse in some way or another or to go experience music or to like actively listen to it. Basically, to practice the profession in some in some way. If you really like it, you're going to end up doing that you're going to end up like practicing it in all kinds of ways, even in ways that aren't you on a stage in front of a dozen or 100 or 1000 people. So, at home the day to day life, for I'd say many working musicians could involve a day job. In addition to like, where you make your money on tour. I always had a day job, a part time job while I was on tour. Even when I was on tour, like nine months of the year, I worked for a nonprofit history education organization that even in the early 2000s, I somehow convinced to let me work remotely. Because this is the truth about a day to day life of a musician, most of it is waiting. So when you hear musicians that you think have it all complaining about how hard it is: Imagine your life where 22 and a half hours of your day are spent waiting for one and a half hours of your day every day. So 22 and a half hours of your day are riding in a bus or a van, waking up in a town that you're not familiar with and having to be somewhere very early, often a bar or a theater when no one's there. Moving stuff from a moving vehicle onto a stage, setting it all up, making sure it all works. Dealing with your co workers in a very intimate way. You've just slept in the same room as them probably you're sharing the same vehicle as them probably you've traveled there, you're agreeing or disagreeing on, on arrangements for songs. And then you're in a place probably a bar in the middle of the afternoon somewhere, doesn't really matter where, it could be Paris, it could be Dubuque, it could be anywhere. And you're waiting. And then you play a little bit you like talk with the people who work at the venue, you make sure your sound is okay. You wonder sometimes why you even do that because the second people show up the whole room sound's different just because of the laws of acoustics. Science means that as soon as there's a bunch of people in the room, everything you've just done will be different because the sound is bouncing in different ways. So it's really just an exercise to make sure all the equipment's working, because everything's going to change by the time you play the show. And then you wait more, you wait, you don't necessarily get to choose the food you want to eat, but you have to eat because if you don't, you're gonna get grumpy. If you're not occupying yourself, you may end up drinking too much, you may end up like wandering around, and getting sunburned, it feels like you're in an ocean of potentially disastrous decisions, because you're waiting for that moment where you get to be onstage in front of people to share the art that you've made, with them. And it has to be worth it. So like, there's no reason to do it. All of the even things that seem fun about like whatever the rock star lifestyle is, they pose dangers they pose like identity challenges, there's a lot of loneliness on tour, because even if you meet, if you think about like all your favorite rock star movies, if you meet someone that maybe you fall in love with that day, you're not gonna see them the next day, like you're in a different town, they don't come with you, you're not with your loved ones who might be at home, your friends who visit you are just there for a minute, and you can barely talk to them. So it has to be that moment on stage, where you're bringing everything out that you really like prepared for all those dreams that you had, as a kid who wanted to be a musician, that's your moment, your hour and a half at night to like practice what you do in front of other people and hopefully make that connection. So all of the things that I think that you know, even the word Rockstar connotes, the partying and the relationships and the money and whatever, like none of it matters, all of it is just really what you're getting paid for is waiting, waiting to do the thing that you really want to do. So the payment has to be in order for it to be successful, that you love it when you get a chance to play.
Rebecca Schaden 12:15
Thank you, Jason, for all this detailed information. Me and my listeners really appreciate it. And we can really imagine what it's like being in a musician's shoes and living a musician's life. So thank you for giving us all these insights. What would you say was a challenge that you remembere to this day that you would like to share with my audience?
Jason Evans Groth 12:38
I really do think that the biggest challenge was, the uncertainty of, if the waiting was going to be worth it, like in some bands. Like in some bands, it always felt that way with Magnolia Electric Company, our singer died of alcohol poisoning, because he struggled with depression and alcoholism. And we didn't necessarily know that. So there were shows where, with that band, where if he was having too much of a difficult day, the show could be jeopardized. Not necessarily because he was too drunk, but because, I mean, that was certainly something that would happen, but like, all of those factors I just talked about contribute to different mental health challenges for everybody who's in the band. I mean, it's true in any in any occupation. So I mean, especially when you're working with coworkers, who you don't know what someone's coming to work with. And so like that night, if he, for example, or any of us was coming to work with with a really bad day, and we are all there to communicate with each other so that we can then connect with an audience. When that communication doesn't work on stage, it really does feel like you've just wasted, like, you wonder why you've just wasted a whole day of your precious life and time to do something that just doesn't work. You know, I mean, in any job, it's not always going to work. But the hardest part for me was wondering when those things happen, and if they happen for a long time, or if there was illness or other sorts of challenges, would you know, was it worth it? Was it worth it to not be at home? Was it worth it? To drive it in the middle of the night through snowy mountains to just play music that you wrote in your bedroom? To people who don't know that you've just like risked your life to go there. I know that sounds like pretty like, dire in a lot of ways but like bands on tour are taking a lot of risks. They've invested so much time so much effort but mostly like their their real identity into this thing. And if it's not working, it can feel really badly in addition to the literal life threatening things that they go through. Like driving is terrifying, you know, driving from city to city is terrifying when you trust other people to drive for you, it's terrifying. When all of your money is invested in your equipment. And it could get stolen at any moment. Like it's terrifying. And I know so many people who've gone through, you know, terrible car accidents or even just terrible friend breakups because it's so hard to work in those kinds of situations with people. So when you see the show, as an audience member, you see what you expect. And often you don't even see what everyone's bringing to the stage. Probably, if you really liked the music, you'll even not notice if everybody on stage is having a bad time. But everybody on stage knows. And so that challenge of like, like, even on our worst nights, people thought it was good as like, oh, man, it was so bad. And like we were so bad at it tonight. And like, Is it is it worth it? But to be honest, that never was enough for me to think that I didn't want to do it again, I felt like it was it was just like anything else. Like I loved it enough that it was it was worth the risk to try and make it better than next time. And luckily, all the people I worked with felt the same. And then when you realize that you're on the road, and you're playing, I don't know, really nice theaters every night, and like it still feels bad. Or maybe like, you're not really addressing the root causes of issues, things that we all deal with things like mental health, things like physical health, like eating regularly, sleeping enough drinking water, like these are all things that were super challenging. And I was doing all this when I was in my like 20s to mid 30s. And like, I had never really thought about how much water meant, or how much you know, like making sure I hate eight hours of sleep, not even eight like five hours of sleep. You know, partying is fun, but like making sure that you were doing it in a way that did not jeopardize others or yourself, especially your health, like everyone has to be healthy. So it's I think the challenges are worth it. But they're not unlike other challenges that you have in other group dynamics. And you had asked before how's that different than my day job, I don't know that it is different than my current job. Like, I feel like it's, you know, there's, I don't drink at work, but like, I mean, and that's something that you you're allowed to do when you're playing in bars, you know, like, I don't wait as much I have more meetings during the day. My work doesn't necessarily just happen at night, but like all of the group dynamics, all of the health dynamics, keeping taking care of yourself, like working as librarian is not that different than then touring or being a professional musician, you still have to practice. You know, it's just like the the things that people just associated with it. And for good reason. I mean, you go to a show, you might buy a beer, like, you see the band drinking it. Yeah, we don't have, we don't have a bar at the library. But I drink coffee all day. So like maybe you know, that's a drug. So I don't see what the difference is really.
Rebecca Schaden 17:41
Thank you for sharing. And I fundamentally agree, it's not that different from my life. You just need to take care of yourself, or in that way, the people that you travel with. And I think that is very important, regardless of your job. You really touched on that already, what touring is like and whether or not you enjoyed it. So I'm just gonna move on to the next question. You performed both in the United States and in Europe, did you observe any differences with regard to how people interact with you and your music or any other differences?
Jason Evans Groth 18:16
The day to day practice and writing and stuff like that, you know, as I mentioned earlier, just as being a musician is not that different than any other job, right, like. So when you think of how that job is treated, though, in two different countries in two different places, it's, it's pretty pretty phenomenally different. So in the United States, I think we grow up thinking about like the American rock star as American dream, like, we get fed these sort of almost like, classic American hero stories of a person is just born with talent, and then they get plucked by some other rich person to be then a very wealthy like denizen of cool for other people. And that sometimes does happen. It doesn't happen that often. And now that there are many more ways to like get your music out there. It's that story is somehow persistent, but like, it's still not totally true. But what is true is that in America, you either have to be rich in order to spend the amount of time you want to spend in order for people to like what you do, so there's nepotism, right, there's that. That's fine. It's always happened that happens everywhere. There is generational wealth, which gives you the time to practice and then potentially, like, not not go to work so that you can tour it and play shows for 10 to 12 people for three or four years. Somewhere in between there maybe you're really that talented, and maybe someone will decide that you deserve to be picked up by like a major label which is, in other words, a group of well funded individuals who can promote your music in a wider way. That might happen sometimes, it doesn't happen very often. But if you are from a showbusiness family, if you have a lot of money, those are two easier ways to like in America to to get into being a musician, if you don't have if you're not from either of those things, you really have to figure out how to both work and work as a musician. So you end up having essentially two full time jobs. Unless you get special treatment as a student, like sometimes, sometimes not very often, but you can't really go to school, to be the kind of musician I was, you can go and learn how to play guitar, you can go and learn how to sing. But like learning how to, I don't know, book shows in your friend's basement in Alabama is not something they teach like Juilliard. Or maybe they do now. I don't know. But like, but that's a, it's essentially like creating your own jobs. So you can figure these things out, in order to work at that job to then practice doing what you do and get better at it. And then we're in play bigger and bigger places, and etc. So I'm pointing this out specifically in America, because we do not have funding for the arts the way that Europe does. So there is no government entity unless you write a grant for it that was going to pay you to write your own songs and play them in places. I mean, there are places that kind of do this, there are nonprofits in certain places. There are community places that do this, but like often you got to find your own practice space, you got to figure out where your instruments come from, you got to do it on your own, just like everybody does in America, or at least that's what they say, versus Europe, where my friends who are in Europe can figure out ways to be funded to play their own songs. Europe is, I think, a little bit smarter because it's older and has a little less room than America has. So people are living in vertical situations where they don't have a lot of room to have practice spaces. But the clubs where people play are really well funded by the government often too, so they have very nice equipment. And so versus America where you can where you show up, maybe in the afternoon, if it's like if it's a smaller show, let's say it's 200 people at a bar, you might show up three hours before the bar opens to load in and do soundcheck and you have maybe an hour, just check your sound. and Europe, they want you there early, because most bands don't have a place to practice and they don't need one because the government is funding a very nice place for them to practice in, in the space of a club with nice equipment. What I can say is the difference is huge in America, there's no place funding rock and roll at the federal level. That is not true in many countries in Europe, where if you apply to be an artist, you can live without having a second job without having to like put part of your house into a practice space zone. You can live and be a musician there. So playing in America is maybe different because people are used to it and and if you're an American band in America, there's a million of us and all of us are like not making money. And all of us are like doing the same thing every other band is doing. When you get to make it to Europe, Europeans still value rock and roll and music, like the music that I used to make in a way that America has just sort of forgotten about. When we go over there. I think people will still see it as like an exotic thing like, oh my gosh, these Americans are playing music that sounds like cowboys made it. So playing in Europe was what we looked forward to. Because European tours made us feel like we were doing something legitimate. In America, I think they think that you're on vacation. In Europe, they know that you are a person working to make art. And they appreciate it in that way. I mean, that's not always true, I mean, obviously people in America think that too. But I think in general, they don't. My parents used to tell me, I was on vacation all the time, like what are you talking about, I'm not barely making any money, I have to pay my bills still. And I'm doing this because it's the work I want to do. Whereas in Europe, there was never a question. It was like: Yes, of course, this is what you do. Thank you so much for doing it, we appreciate it, or we don't, but like we're gonna give you the space to do it. And we're really glad that you made it over here. So I'm not saying that America does not appreciate art. Of course people do. But it is not as simple. There's not a system for it in the same way there is in Europe. And there are pros and cons to both. But I can absolutely say it is easier and more fun to play music in Europe than it ever was in America. Your art being appreciated in Europe is definitely at a different kind of level than it is in America. You have to be big here, you have to work a lot harder to do it. It's not that you don't have to work hard in Europe, but like there's just more stuff in place to get you there. If you're at a certain level. That was a long answer. But I feel strongly about it. Like I feel like there's a reason American bands get excited about playing in Europe. And I think that European bands get excited about playing America too. And they should and often they don't come until they have a level of success that will make it worthwhile for them. But I've definitely been around bands from other places doing like the basement tours of America, who either understand that that is something that's super special about here, like all the DIY stuff that we can get away with. And maybe the funding from their own country is allowing them to do it, but I don't think they understand how much we are not funded when we have to do those things, if they're from a place that does that.
Rebecca Schaden 25:05
That is very interesting. And I can hear that you feel strongly about it. And I think that is really cool that you're so passionate about it. I personally have to say it is a surprise to me that it's so different in the United States and in Europe. I didn't expect that. And my next question actually builds on that. Is there a city in the United States or in Europe, where you particularly enjoy playing?
Jason Evans Groth 25:28
Yeah, so I it's funny, I loved playing cities like Lawrence, Kansas, where it's a college town. They just have a really vibrant like DIY music scene. So every show was always good. New York, the shows are always sold out. New York is not that awesome to plan because you have to get to New York. College towns in America, Madison, Wisconsin, Lawrence, Kansas, Bloomington, Indiana, Northampton, Massachusetts, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, like always felt comfortable. Like there's there's usually especially in college towns, there's often an art scene that promotes bands coming through, there's probably a student radio station, like the one we have here, like WKNC, or, or whatever. And so there it just feels like you're going to a place that has a team waiting for you. I loved playing Chicago, I loved playing Portland, Oregon, Vancouver, British Columbia, Montreal in Canada, those are great. In Europe, our booking agents were always in the Netherlands. So playing in places like Utrecht, and Amsterdam were fun, because we just had like family there, you know. So that was like, kind of like a homecoming show. I loved playing in Berlin. Vienna is great. Prague is great. Scandinavia always had beautiful clubs and wonderful people who are booking things. So I can't say that there was like, there were a few places that I would never want to go back to. But like it's worth going to. There was always something good about a show. It's difficult to play in major cities. When you have to move your own gear or if you're in a bus or in your van and places like London places like Paris, New York is another example of that. Boston, really hard to play in those places sometimes.
Rebecca Schaden 27:15
Have you ever played in Las Vegas?
Jason Evans Groth 27:17
Have I played in Las Vegas? Yes.
Rebecca Schaden 27:19
What was it like?
Jason Evans Groth 27:19
Oh, so awful. Like, there I played twice in Las Vegas. I think the people were nice. I think the first time we played was the band "John Wilkes Booze" and we played for the bartender. I don't think there's anybody else there. But maybe there was actually I think someone did come to see us on purpose. And then there was the bartender and they were both really nice. I can't remember the name of the other venue. I do remember playing in Reno, which is like Vegas is little sibling. Those shows were pretty good. Vegas was always a little I don't know. I'm sure there are good shows in Vegas. And I'm sure there's a pretty good DIY music scene too. I mean, the music we played, music Magnolia Electric Company played was like, sort of country sort of singer songwriter, sometimes dirty rock and roll. So like that will usually fit in with smaller, smaller venues. And Vegas just doesn't have a ton of them, because there's so many big things. But yeah, I mean, it's cool to see the city I guess.
Rebecca Schaden 28:20
Yeah, true. That's what I definitely want to go at some point. That's actually then my last question. What recommendations would you give someone who wants to start off in the music business as a singer, as a writer? As a guitarist?
Jason Evans Groth 28:35
Yeah, I think that you have to love it. So I think the reason I mentioned that, I think it was probably my dream job from the beginning was there was a, there was some point where I realized that I was just thinking about music all the time. And then at some point, maybe that was when I was like nine or 10 years old. And then when I really got into it, I found that it was, it was my way, it helped me achieve an identity. And in a way, like, I started to realize that the music I listened to, was different, I felt was defining me in a certain way. And not like it was changing me because of the lyrics or whatever. Because I was just thinking about it, it meant something to me, I was connecting with it in a way that I think some people connect with dance or with painting or writing or, or entrepreneurship or librarianship like anything, like I feel like I just had to be around it. So when I picked up guitar as a 15 year old I think, maybe a 14 year old, I just wanted to do it so much that the practicing of it was really natural. So I think that that like I think that's one thing to know is like anybody who wants to be in it. You just you really have to love it. That's true with any other thing that you want to devote a lot of your time or maybe your whole life to. It's not I don't think it's much of a job that you can sort of just put half of yourself into. So I think loving it, understanding that practicing it is important and understanding that just like anything else, you may not be awesome at it right away. But if you actually do the first two things, it will become something that is yours. And then I think the most important part of any of this, and this is true with any job in any artistic endeavor. Right? Do it for yourself, do not chase an audience do not like let the audience define you. If you chase an audience, the audience knows. And they just like anybody else in the world, if they think that they're being chased, they will run away. If you are doing it for yourself other people will see themselves in you. And they will start to connect with you in a certain way that you can't define until you figure out how to do it for yourself. And it takes a while to figure that out. But I know for myself, when it came to songwriting, once I started writing songs for me, and I didn't know how to do it, but it took a bunch, I started to feel really good about them. And then the audience followed. Focus on that, what it how is this for me? How is this for me? And the people I'm working with? How do I grow with the people I'm working with? And not how do I make enough money to please this audience person, like you might make more money doing that in some cases, but I don't know that you're gonna feel any better about your art. And I think that's where the real value comes.
Rebecca Schaden 31:16
I totally agree. And the point is, if you don't love it, if you're not passionate about it, you will not do it for the long run, you might start and then you will stop. As you said, it takes practice. And I I feel like if you don't love it, if you're not passionate about it, you will not put in the effort that is needed and required to be successful in whatever it is you're doing. If it's music, or acting or entrepreneurship or whatever. I feel like when you're not passionate about something, you will eventually give up. But when you are, you can make things happen that you never thought were possible. Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you for being here with me today. I hope you like this episode. I am personally a big fan of music. I loved having Jason here. Thank you, Jason, for being here with us.
Jason Evans Groth 32:00
That was so great. Thanks for having me, Beccy.
Rebecca Schaden 32:02
It was amazing to hear so much about the exciting life of a musician. And I hope you guys have a great week and I hope you're excited for the next episode. Bye bye