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The GGJ Podcast brings the spirit of Global Game Jam to your headphones, with people from around the world sharing how they found their way into game development. Each week, Susan Gold talks with developers, studio founders, and festival organizers about the twists, risks, and side doors that shaped their paths and communities. You will hear honest stories about creativity, collaboration, failure, and the messy, beautiful reality of making games.
Starving Up | Alexander Fernández ===
Intro
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[00:00:00] Susan Gold: This is the GGJ Podcast, a show about the games industry, the people who make them, and the communities that grow up around them. I'm Susan Gold, a game education Trailblazer and one of the founders of the Global Game Jam. Each week we will be sitting down with a new guest highlighting their own path and journey.
[00:00:26] This is a space. Our honest conversation from Makers about creativity, collaboration, failure, and the messy, the beautiful reality of making games. So whether you're a young dev or seasoned, an educator, a student, or someone who just loves games and the people behind them, welcome to the GGJ Podcast. Take a breath, settle in, and let's hear directly from the makers themselves.
[00:00:49] Shirley McPhaul: This episode is made possible in partnership with the Global Game Jam, the world's largest game creation event. Bringing together creators from around the globe. A big thank you as well to the Global Game Jams. Headline [00:01:00] sponsors, epic Games Games for Change and Ex Sola for helping make this creative community a reality.
[00:01:06] To learn more and to get involved in the upcoming jams, visit global game jam.org.
[00:01:13]
Meet Alexander Fernandez
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[00:01:20] Susan Gold: Today's guest is someone who means a lot to me personally and professionally. He's not just a leader in the games industry. He's also one of my oldest industry friends and a mentor who helped shaped how I think about the game industry, what fortitude really means and what resilience is.
[00:01:37] Alexander Fernandez is the CEO and co-founder, a Streamlined Media Group, a studio he helped form from a tiny apartment operation into a global development and digital solutions company working on franchises like Final Fantasy, Gear of War, Bioshock: Infinite, James Cameron's Avatar, but he [00:02:00] also looks for the future and other possible game collaborations with brands like Coca-Cola and Balenciaga.
[00:02:06] And then over more than two decades in games, he and his team have contributed to over hundreds of productions and some of their own. They have generated billions in revenue, and Alex is one of those people who is constantly thinking about the future. He's also the voice behind video games, real talk and starve up He and his team are dominating the global south. He's deeply focused on using games and technology to create opportunities, and he works very closely to close that digital divide Alex, as my friend, I want to thank you for being here. It's really special for me to really get to share your story with everyone listening.
[00:02:52] Alexander Fernandez: Oh, thanks for having me. again, it's, congratulations for this. So this is, super cool that we get an opportunity to talk. it's really, I'm really looking forward to it.
[00:02:59] Susan Gold: [00:03:00] Well, I think your story is particularly interesting only because I've known you for so long. I have seen your growth, and when I say I met Alexander when he what? 2006? I don't even know how old you were then.
[00:03:17] Alexander Fernandez: I was 25 when we met.
[00:03:19] Susan Gold: So we've known each other for a long time, but for listeners who are meeting you for the first time, how do you introduce yourself and how do you talk about streamline and starve up?
[00:03:29] Alexander Fernandez: Yeah. So, Hi, I'm Alexander Fernandez. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Streamlined Media Group in Streamlined Studios. I've been making video games for 25 years. effectively what we do is we connect the global south of the global north in order to help people make hardcore AAA games that basically make a difference in this industry.
[00:03:45] But we also work with brands and we work with other interested parties who see the video games industry as more of a tool for economic development and social prosperity. So we do a lot of that work as well.
[00:03:56] Susan Gold: I've always been so proud of you, and I've really [00:04:00] watched this growth and depth but you've always had a real mentality of I am not staying here, and I always feel like you're always working like today is the first day of the job. that starve up mentality is been your persona and philosophy. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
The StarveUp Mentality
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[00:04:20] Alexander Fernandez: yeah. No problem. So the starveup mentality, the, the reason why we call it starving up is because startups have money. Streamline, had no money when it started. We literally had $15,000 in dreams. We were 20 years old living in Amsterdam. And the only way we could do it was basically say, you know what?, What we don't have in cash, we have in time and our youthfulness, let's go ahead and starve our way up.
[00:04:42] And that's what we did. we starved ourselves to get the business to where it needed to be. And I think that ultimately that persona never left because the ingrained attitude of who we are as people and who I am as a person, we never had it easy.
[00:04:56] It was always a challenge. We started the company in 2001 [00:05:00] dot bomb had exploded. Then it's War on Terror. Then it's the financial crisis, then it's another war. Then it's basically the games industry destroying itself. it's constant, build up, destroy, build up, destroy. And in that process you understand and you start to realize how life is patterns and everything turns into pattern recognition at one moment in time.
[00:05:20] And the longer you live and the longer you focus on something, the more you begin to realize how it works. And once you understand how something works and then understand the patterns, you're able to ride them. And this is ultimately what Starve Up is about, is that live long enough in something, you will see it repeat itself.
[00:05:38] And once you understand that it's all yours in the end.
The Beginning of Streamline
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[00:05:42] Susan Gold: That's beautiful. I wanna go back to how you met the four guys that lived in that apartment. You're one of four, right? And your brother was the other and then two other people.
[00:05:55] Alexander Fernandez: Yeah, so Hector came in actually a year later, so my twin brother's Hector. [00:06:00] So how we all know each other is that we met on bulletin board systems. So back in the mid nineties we used to basically connect to local bulletin board BBSs, where we would basically exchange mail and use modems and try to find software that we would all enjoy and effectively understand how the internet was forming.
[00:06:17] Pre-internet. This is before the worldwide web really. So, uh, we met some friends that were moding, games. We were moders back then. Moding Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem. And we ended up all meeting with each other. I was 15 years old when I met my, co-founders and partners. they were in Utah working on a game called The Gunman Chronicles. Well, what would ultimately become The Gunman Chronicles.
[00:06:38] And we met through a friend's brother who had put the team together. jump cut to 2001. I moved to Amsterdam, actually, get a job working in I.T.. And my brother one day sends me a message saying, Hey, the guys from Gunman are there. You should meet. And April 1st, I drove up to go see them to a place called Hilversum, we met and I'm like, we [00:07:00] should start a company. They're like, we are doing a company. I'm like, Let's do it then. And that's how streamlined, effectively started to take off. It started to form at that moment in time, Rainier, Veninga, Stefan, Bayer, Adrian Veninga, Rainier's brother, original guys that were there. And then Hector came a year and a half later.
[00:07:17] and we just started basically building this company,And it was, uh, an interesting experience because, none of us were from Holland.
[00:07:24] Susan Gold: Um,
Time as Currency
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[00:07:25] Susan Gold: those early years, I'm sure you thought that there were days that were total disasters give me a little idea of what did it teach you to do,you know, you could all live on a thousand euros a month, which is not possible now, but
[00:07:42] what did it teach you?
[00:07:44] Alexander Fernandez: okay. I want to first address the fact that, yeah, you, you couldn't do this again because of the economic differences, right? cost of inflation and everything, but there's a reality that basically you learn pretty quick that if you don't have money and you're [00:08:00] young, you have time and you realize that time becomes currency.
[00:08:04] So realistically, very quickly, what I began to understand is that I can use time and energy to replace money by pushing myself and using all that energy and all that time to get ahead of the curve of what I'm trying to do. And specifically what I mean by that is that extra moment to put in that extra email to do the extra phone call for us to spend that extra moment polishing that piece of the demo to basically make that one additional thing that I would otherwise not do if I was just living a normal job and having a normal life.
[00:08:38] So once we understood time and energy as currency. What we then did is when we looked at money, so for the first three years, I didn't get a paycheck. Literally, it was just like, starving and making it work. Whatever money we could find put back into the business. that basically helped me understand that what I want and what I need are two different things.[00:09:00]
[00:09:00] Think is one of the biggest analysis that people have to do. I want everything. Do I need everything? No. What is it that I really need? And then understanding what I really need. Food, water, shelter, with the understanding that time and energy can be used as currency. We began to connect to construct of an understanding of a world in which, well, if we're gonna go sacrifice the time and energy we have our youth trying to make it work in an industry, which at that moment in time wasn't even an industry for most people, I'll never forget the bank laughing in my face, being like, go get a job kid, because this is not a business. It's a hobby. It was effectively understanding that we had to overcome all of these hurdles that were, preconceived notions. Then at the same time understand how the businesses played within the industry we chose to be in, which happened to be video games.
[00:09:53] So I want to say in a very simple way that when you choose to work in a specific [00:10:00] industry, you need to really understand the economic patterns, the business patterns, the norms, the customs of that industry. But you also have to understand the seasonality of that industry, how things work, and when they work, at what point on the calendar.
[00:10:14] Once you learn that, you then take a step back and look at just the overall macro perspective of how does this industry work within the greater context of the economy, which then allows you to understand well, if once those patterns start to repeat, and again, this is time and understanding, you begin to put these dots together.
[00:10:33] But of course, 20-year-old Alexander doesn't know any of that. 22-year-old Alexander starts to get an idea around it. But by 24 years and we're starting to make in money, we're starting to really start making money. That's when we're like, oh, this is how it works. But it took three years to figure it out.
[00:10:51] Three brutal years. Three years in which I would never throw it on anybody. Yet at the same time, I love every minute of it because when I think of my [00:11:00] fondest memories, it's those memories. Those are what I think about.
Don't be agreeable
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[00:11:03] Susan Gold: I hear you, but I also hear someone that was determined that you were gonna make games for a living. Like you had that passion first, and then you were, figuring out how to build a plane while flying it. Got it. But at the same time,
[00:11:22] you had a team of people that were close living in close quarters. How did you manage and handle inevitable to disagreements and pressure in those years? How do you maintain relationships?
[00:11:39] Alexander Fernandez: it's funny because I think it's, there's, you say something very clear that when you understand the circumstances you're in, once you understand the dynamics of people, by understanding yourself, you're able to start to communicate properly. So first off, there's no science, there's no secret. Just be a [00:12:00] human being. A human being that understands that they're fallible. Probably not the smartest, probably not the greatest, probably not all the negatives and probably not all the positives either. But once we understand that neither one of us have an edge on what it means to be human, that's where you just face the reality that real talk, real conversation, real communication, structured by the altitude of the want and the desire. The desire to make it in this industry, to be in this business, and then the truth that we need each other to get there. That thins out the bullshit. I'm sorry, is this a G-rated show? I apologize for swearing. Okay. Just to make sure.
[00:12:37] Susan Gold: You can whatever you want
[00:12:37] Alexander Fernandez: yeah. Okay. Well,
[00:12:39] so here, here's the thing. It's like everybody wants to be agreeable, but life isn't agreeable. Life is conflict and understanding conflict management and not being conflict avoidant is by far the single biggest thing, I can tell anyone listening to this. If you are a person who runs away from disagreements or from conflict, you will not survive in this [00:13:00] business. Or what will end up happening is you'll be put in a position where you will be utilized. That is the problem. And I think this is the key that we learned as early on as a group, is that we knew survival came down to all of us aligning, removing the ego, cutting the bullshit, and getting down with the work.
[00:13:17] And when you basically use economics as a way to focus on something, meaning that the higher we go up, the thinner the air, the less bickering you can do because you don't have enough air to breathe, That is how you be got there because we learned super fast.
[00:13:34] I can either complain about something that really doesn't mean something or I can focus on what pushes the agenda. And by doing that snapped us in line. And you took a bunch of young kids, a bunch of 20, 20 year olds and said, make video games young men, and go do it and survive. That's what it was.
[00:13:50] And so we didn't have to, what was it to argue about? I have nothing. Oh, so do you? then there's plenty of it for all of us.
Downfall
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[00:13:56] Susan Gold: but then you know, you became [00:14:00] successful. You went from $6,000 jobs to multimillion dollar deals, and then in 2008, 2009, you kind of hit a wall. Can you walk us through the moment when you realized that Amsterdam studio might not survive?
[00:14:16] Alexander Fernandez: yeah. So here's the thing. What's beautiful about this is and I would set the stage for wanna understand something. We started this company with 15 grand. We didn't know what it was gonna become. All we wanted to do was make games, be 20 years old, live in Europe, live in Holland of all places, and you know. Video games, art and Holland, which all go hand in hand. And so we were already winning and we were doing deals. we, by 2004, we were, making over a million and it was just coming in. it was an incredible shift when that happened. But this is where you begin to realize that this industry is so dependent on the real economy in ways that people don't understand.
[00:14:59] And I think [00:15:00] that for the first time, that the moment in time where these funny little things that we call a hobby was a real business, really became clear during the financial crisis. So in 2007, I signed in Around August, I had signed 15 million Euros worth of deals, right in US dollars.
[00:15:20] It was close to 20 million. Locked in, huh? And it's this is it. Launchpad happens. Here we go. It's happening. But then in 2008. Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt. Bear Stearns collapses. And we start to see the financial crisis creep in. 'cause you know, everyone deserved a home even if they couldn't pay for a home.
[00:15:41] And then Wall Street decided to sell it to everybody. 'cause what do they care? They're making money too. So, the original video game finance was at its maximum hit. It's pushing it out and we start seeing just how much video games is financed by credit and it's financed by credit because [00:16:00] who in their right mind is ever gonna put money in video games?
[00:16:02] Let's just be honest about that. We know very straightforward that the hit ratio in this industry ain't that high. And there's a beautiful term in entertainment, OPM, other people's money, that's the same term we use. What is credit? What is debt? Nothing more than other people's money. So OPM was in this industry at such a rate that basically when the economic crisis started coming in, we began to watch client after client terminate projects or go bankrupt until finally, roughly a year and a half into this, everything caught up. And the moment I realized that this was probably gonna end up being us having to shut down Amsterdam was like, it comes in bizarre moments. It was the moment in time that we end up having to basically look at the beauty of socialist democracies in which labor is protected, and [00:17:00] then the brutal side of capitalism, which is winner takes all when these two worlds collided with each other and created the most bizarre circumstance I ever saw, which is basically a simple thing: in the Netherlands at that time, they have a thing that you pay into, which is effectively insurance for your employees. You pay this insurance, which is basically a bankruptcy insurance that says if this company closes. It will pay out what has been put into it for up to three months. At that moment in time, there was two things right in front of us that we saw we could keep going even though our clients were dying, or we could basically save our people and stop the studio in order for the insurance to kick in,
[00:17:43] Susan Gold: and that was the decision we had to make. That decision is very fascinating. One, because there is a true pull on whatever you believe in terms of people in business. Whatever you believe is, the obligations of entrepreneurs or not, doesn't matter. [00:18:00] There was a thing where we had to face a real consequence of we can drag all these people with us or we can basically choose the insurance, but in that the people that are going to eat, excuse my language, shit, are the people who own the business.
[00:18:16] And that's the decision we made. We decided for our people, they got the insurance, we got to eat shit. That's what it took. But I'll tell you the reason why we did this and why I don't feel bad about it is because we understood one simple thing. Nobody forced us to start the company. And when you know, no one forces you, I'm not gonna feel sorry for myself. I'm gonna basically live my life the way I know I need to live my life, which is take the accountability and the consequence of the kins that I've created. But this is the difference between me and a corporate person because I started this business when I was 20. I've lived here. This is my home. That's the [00:19:00] difference.
Reputation
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[00:19:01] Susan Gold: How did you survive the whole thing? I mean, debt, your reputation? How did all of these decisions sit with you personally?
[00:19:11] Alexander Fernandez: so let's talk about reputation. Here's a beautiful thing about reputation. Reputation is literally your personality and who you are. So no one's perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. It's what we do when they come out that defines you. So you have those who run away from things, promise things and don't deliver on them.
[00:19:31] Then you have those who basically blame other people. Then you have those who basically just tell you straight up, yeah, this is what happened. Whether you like it or not. What I understood and what I've always seen about reputation is that the truth is what's clear. Tell the truth. They may not like it, but you know what? Truth is truth.
Moving to Malaysia
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[00:19:47] Susan Gold: that is so true. Now, you responded to this crisis by picking up the company or what's left of it and moving it to Malaysia. What convinced you that relocating to Kuala [00:20:00] Lumpur was the right? Way to go as opposed to shutting down and starting something new, someplace safer like home like the US or maybe even the UK.
[00:20:11] Alexander Fernandez: so this is where the story gets funny, and this is one of the greatest lessons I ever learned. When you look at the fact that the global financial crisis, or the great financial crisis was caused by bankers and subprime, and basically people lying across the board, selling things that were junk, running up tabs, I began to realize that even though we had done everything right, remember we had millions of dollars of signed agreements, then they just evaporated. I realized that there's a world in which whatever we do as great as we are, we will never be able to prevent the economy from being the economy the way. We can't prevent politics from being what they are. So we have to best learn how to surf those [00:21:00] waves and sail those oceans. So at that moment in time, I began to realize as we looked at the business, there is a truth of running and making video games: it's labor intensive. At the time, computers were not cheap, but they weren't super, expensive and software was only getting more expensive. So what we knew at that moment in time is that making video games in the western world was gonna become cost prohibitive. And we saw that from Amsterdam because the cost of running a business in Amsterdam was already high. We already saw the costs we were paying just to keep the business running. And it was a very simple prediction that if you look at it over the course of the next 10 years, it was gonna continue to be expensive. So we started doing feasibility studies. We looked, we actually looked at 17 different nations, sorry, cities around the world, did the feasibility studies.
[00:21:50] And then one day I get an invitation, to go speak at a creative event in Kale. I go there with my partner, Stefan. We show up there [00:22:00] and within 24 hours we realize Malaysia is where we need to be. They have the talent. It's raw, untrained, but it's fluent in English and it has the desire. You have a government that's wanting to support and is supporting their people, and you're in a relatively cost-effective part of the world.
[00:22:19] It ticked all the boxes and at that moment in time we're like, you know what Malaysia's where it needs to be. And then it clicked with the economic thesis we had, which was very simply, this costs are only gonna keep rising in the west and in the north. We need to make sure that we can catch the wave that is basically going to be the next generation and focus on that, which is what we did.
[00:22:41] Susan Gold: And you've really been a big part of growing the Malaysian game economy. I know that, when you landed in Malaysia and you started this rebuilding and you're thinking about all the things that happened in Amsterdam, what did you decide to do differently [00:23:00] compared to what happened in the studio before?
[00:23:03] What were the things that you purposely went out of your way?
[00:23:06] Alexander Fernandez: I think the, there were three major things. One is basically economics became the core focus of everything we did. Everything was economics. it was understanding our unit economics down to the hour spent. The second thing we did was basically we took our production platform stream frame and we migrated it to the cloud because we realized we didn't wanna spend time having to basically worry about workflow and process when we can just build it in and have it automated and then basically ensure that our clients can then talk to us.
[00:23:34] So remove the friction of delivery of work and development by automating the pieces that people really don't want to do anyway and let a computer do better. And that effectively is what we did. And the last thing, and I think is the most important thing, is. Really continue doing what we had done in Amsterdam, which is recognized that the world has talent.
[00:23:54] Talent generally doesn't always have a avenue to meet the world. So if we [00:24:00] would build bridges in the global south, before it was called the global South, we used to call it emerging markets, basically is what we did. We said, you know what? I don't care where you're from. I don't care what you believe. I don't care what you think, as long as you love video games and you're willing to subscribe to the way we are in making them, you have an opportunity with us.
[00:24:17] And keeping that which was core to who we are and what started this business, we just started attracting people from all over the world. At one point, we had 45 nationalities in 25 different languages. It was like a little United Nations. It was crazy.
Second Thoughts?
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[00:24:30] Susan Gold: Was there any moment where you might have thought, oh, we might have made the wrong call here, and what did you do to get through that?
[00:24:41] Alexander Fernandez: To be honest with you, no. And I know that might sound, I don't know, arrogant or whatever, but it's not, 'cause look, here's the thing. You gotta remember, like we had ran a business in one of the most expensive parts of the world, ran a services business based on human beings, and then we end up in a place where, just to be very honest, the [00:25:00] unit economics made sense, sold in dollars, paid in a ring.
[00:25:03] It had the cost base of raw talent connecting it to global access. Then at the same time, understanding that I could go outside and eat for $2. and at that point in time. Knowing and understanding that unless I'm a complete moron or irresponsible or unaccountable, there is no way you can't make this business work.
[00:25:25] So at that moment in time, it was double downtime because it was understanding, again, the economics of the country. Its relativeness to the world within the industry, within how this all cycles together. That's how we understood things. And we had the benefit of what had been our Amsterdam operations and having been here in the business since 2001.
[00:25:47] So what we had been around for 10 years, nine years to call it that way, and then effectively got to slingshot our way forward. I guess the thing is, what you would say is this, is that because we already had [00:26:00] it hard, whatever Malaysia, or being in a new country would throw at us was quite easy because we already knew what it was.
[00:26:08] When you're economically constrained, and let's be clear, like the worst thing is to be economically con. Try not having money, try not being able to pay your rent, pay your bills, have food.
[00:26:20] Because at that moment in time, all these words don't mean shit because I can't eat. And that is something that when you begin to realize and then truly understand that everything else is a joke and that's how we got through everything. 'cause you understand the higher order, there is a reality.
[00:26:38] And let's be clear, money is a universal language. All countries, all regions, all dispositions understand having it and not having it.
Steam Frame
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[00:26:48] Susan Gold:
[00:26:49] it's a lot of hard work
[00:26:50] I mean from your vantage point, I would say you have seen things rise and fall. Rise and fall, and you still [00:27:00] manage to survive. And that really says something. And you learned a lot. you learned a lot about what outsourcing and code development really looked like.
[00:27:10] You know how it can fail and you took those failures and you made it into something. Do you wanna talk a little bit about steam frame?
[00:27:25] Alexander Fernandez: Yeah. yeah. So, uh, so here's the thing. Going back to pattern recognition,
[00:27:29] The thing is, what it comes down to is that basically in the end of the day, live long enough, go through cycles enough, write things down, find the links. Find the links, reapply them to your learning. Watch a child growing up. I have three children. I've watched them grow, watching how children learn through play, learn through failure, learn through the ups and downs, just like a business. Same thing as a human being. Same thing. And then apply it. So when we looked at development and we looked at production, we knew [00:28:00] through the successes, the failures, the communications.
[00:28:02] There's a better way to make something because we've made it so many times. We took that knowledge, enshrined it into code. Code becomes law. Law becomes the way you execute that level of removing the redundant, the remedial, the repetitive so that the human can live in their zone of genius is literally what we do with Stream Frame.
[00:28:25] We don't want people to be the best pattern recognition person when a computer can do that. I want them to make great art. I want them to make great designs. What I don't want them to do is the best spreadsheet manager, the best data entry person, the best person to basically filter alphabetically. I'm not doing that.
[00:28:42] So we started to develop technology stream frame specifically to run our organization on a global level, production level, studio level, and ultimately for me to be able to make decisions without having to ask too many people what's going on. Because again, we've seen the cycle, we've seen the pattern. We [00:29:00] understand what things look like.
[00:29:02] We've lived all the hype for 25 years and the one thing I know to be true is that this bandwagon of jump on the latest trend is exactly what this industry is about. And then at the same time, it's also about the bloodletting. So let's be super clear about this. The volatility of the video games industry is the feature.
[00:29:23] Empires rise and fall, fortunes are made and they're lost. Yet at the same time, that's what allows the new blood to come in and ride the train up or ride it back down. Also for the old blood to do the same. But there's a key technology if applied appropriately, levels out that curve of the peak in the valley.
[00:29:42] When you harmonize it in, you don't die by falling. So this is the key that I would always just tell people to understand, is that if you truly think about this business, then you really have to insulate and protect your business from the peaks and valleys, the [00:30:00] troughs that kill the, up into the right. as long as it tracks up into the right, you're winning.
Making Decisions and Telling the Truth
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[00:30:07] Susan Gold: When you talk about making decisions, have there ever been something that looked really good on paper that fit unchecked all the boxes, but didn't fit principles or numbers
[00:30:21] Alexander Fernandez:
[00:30:21] that's HR.
[00:30:21] Susan Gold: That's hr.
[00:30:22] Alexander Fernandez: it's, that's it. I mean, let's be honest. everything looks good on paper. You don't know until you're in it. And the thing is computers are computers, but human beings are human beings.
[00:30:33] And I think that in the end, we have to be honest also about the industry where, everything can be made to look and feel better than it is, or worse than it is. But you don't know until you're in the shit, then you find out. So I think the thing is what I would just say is this, like if there was anything there, hiring decisions have always been the one thing that I look back on and be like, oh, here we go.
[00:30:54] That would always be it. It's never about software. It's never about like we should have, because you know what? In the end of the day, it's technology [00:31:00] and the aggravation is not technology. The consternation is always the fact that you deal with humans and humans have their quirks, which goes back to what we said at the beginning, being conflict, avoidant, non-confrontational is the fastest way to being broke in this business, you just cannot be that way
[00:31:17] that's, so just link this to one simple thing of the entire lesson of a career. Learn to tell the truth and be comfortable in how uncomfortable that is because you are not going to make everyone happy.
[00:31:32] And that's the thing let's anyone out there who's I want to be a CEO. Okay, let me tell you that is the worst job. At the same time, the thing is, what makes it work is that if you're willing to be accountable to your people and to circumstances that you did not create, but now you must solve that's all that is. And it's, you gotta be comfortable with uncomfortable things. That's just what it is.
[00:31:56] Susan Gold: and carrying it off with grace. Some people are [00:32:00] cold and you, I've never seen you be cold towards any of the people that have worked with you. It's always been like, this is a great work experience. So I've never heard anyone say anything negative about you.
[00:32:14] Okay. So I have seen so many successes come out of Streamline.
Making your own Games
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[00:32:20] Susan Gold: Tell me; how, after being a gun for hire, so to speak, a collaborator with other major studios, did you decide that you wanted to create something internally?
[00:32:32] Alexander Fernandez: So here's the funny secret about Streamline is that Streamline started off as a game developer because we were game developers, but the only way we could pay for our games back in 2001 was to sell our services by day. So we could make our games at night, which is what we did. And at that time, we didn't know that this was gonna become an actual industry, a portion of our industry, or become how we would make money.
[00:32:56] We were just trying to fund our next title. We just happened to be very good at [00:33:00] providing services and being very clear at how to do the work. so it was always something we were doing. Every year we would have something in development. We were trying something new. and ultimately what we decided was, you know, what if we keep making our own games. That's just the best way for us to upgrade our capabilities and keep being consistent and remain cutting edge. It also is a nice calling card for the industry because it can see how far you can go as an organization. But the other side is, no one gets into this business saying, I want to be the person who is the backup singer to a famous band.
[00:33:33] You want to have your own band at one point. If you become the backup singer, that's okay. It's a nice, it's a nice life, but nothing stops you from trying to be the front act. And that was something that I always told my team. I said, look, we might be the greatest band you never heard of, but at the same time, it's a living and nothing stops from keep making our new demo.
[00:33:52] And that's what we would do. We would just make games, continue making games, and we would release what we wanted to play. Which, when you look at the [00:34:00] curve of our games, you can see a bunch of young 20 something year old kids, moody, gothic to then people with kids. Next thing we've been releasing kids games because we all had kids.
[00:34:11] And that started to become that family friendly business. you literally can see us grow up based on the titles we make. it. It just became natural. And you know, it's also expression. 'cause I grew up making games 'cause I love playing games.
[00:34:24] I played 'em with my brother, I played 'em with my family. Of course, it just makes sense now that when we have kids of our own, I'm like, I want you to come and play my game. Right. So means to an end at that point.
[00:34:34] Susan Gold: No. No, but I really,I think that they're fun and beautiful games and they have personality and there's just, there's something that, there's a comfort to them. So I really have a, we will put your links to your games in the show notes so people will be able to play them. I really think that it's important that we let people know [00:35:00] that you also make these great games.
[00:35:02] You just don't work for everybody else, even though you do work for a lot of cool projects.
[00:35:07] Alexander Fernandez: yeah, you do. I think you have to, you follow your heart. that's okay. So that's the thing. So it's a dichotomy that on one side we make money with bang, boom, boom, which is, shooting and blowing things up. And then we have these family games that are about teamwork and playing together, and they're so different yet so the same, they're the versions of a personality where you do what you have to do, but you have a heart. And these two worlds connect. And I think ultimately in the end, when you look at the games, and for anyone out there who's listening to this, you have to make what you want to make, man, if you're gonna walk through this hell and this business.
[00:35:44] There better be a reward for you, even if it is you and your mom and your cousin only playing your game. It's still your game. That is the key. Or else why would you do this? Because, there's so many other ways to make money.
[00:35:58] Susan Gold: It is by [00:36:00] far one of the hardest ways to make money and to be in charge also. again, it's another layer of difficulty. It isn't just making the games, it's then being responsible for all these other people's lives. And then you partners are like a marriage and you have to work at it just like you do a relationship.
Harvard OPM Program
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[00:36:19] Susan Gold: So it's a lot to take on. And I, one of the things that I know about you is that you went from building games and all of these things and you realized that you needed something else and you went off and you got a business degree. And I thought that was interesting to throw into the middle of your career to decide at that late date that you wanted an MBA.
[00:36:47] Why did you decide to do that, and why was it
[00:36:50] Alexander Fernandez: the pro, yeah, that's a good question. so I attended a program at Harvard called OPM, which is actually, they took their MBA program and then they combined [00:37:00] it with people who basically have built businesses of significance and combined it together.
[00:37:04] So real world experience meets book knowledge to connect it. You have to remember, like when we started Streamline, I was 20 years old. I was the only one that had actually had a job before I was, actually doing IT. And information security, the key is that I never finished university.
[00:37:23] I had a high school diploma, and I think that there was a moment in time where I realized roughly when I was 35 before. our first, child was born, that I wanted to understand more than just what I could read on my own. And the thing is, I love reading and I love puzzling and I love trying to solve things, but there's a moment in time where you have to be humble and you have to realize there might be other people who know more.
[00:37:47] And if you can access to those people, why wouldn't you? So when I was in my twenties, I had tried to get into the OPM program. Actually, I was 24, 25 when I tried to get into OPM, wasn't allowed [00:38:00] in too young. So 10 years later I came back and tried and they let me in. And it was the greatest experience of my life.
[00:38:08] Of course, it's Harvard's incredible and there's, it's a great school. It has amazing thinking and the campus is important, an incredible piece of that as they're the teachers. But really what it was meeting people like me who were self-taught or. Found themselves in a position where they needed to learn more and they wanted to apply themselves and to make relationships with people that I had never met before that were similar to me.
[00:38:31] So the education plus the network, plus the understanding of life outside of the video game space, that's really what it came down to. And then ultimately also just as a human being, wanting to know that this wasn't just some accident. Like I didn't just, oh, it just accidentally happened. It accidentally worked out.
[00:38:50] And you know, there might be people be like, okay, how can it accidentally happen? there's some people that get lucky. I wasn't born lucky, but I'm hardworking. And so what I wanted to see was, [00:39:00] what happens if hardworking meets formal education and an understanding? And that's what I got. And that, that one decision, like just very honest with you, if you were to look at this on a revenue map, going to that school unlocked, what I would then say at least 10 x.
[00:39:20] Because it went from like here to here. That's the difference that it made. And so that's why, I'm a person who will always say about education. okay, you went to college. Cool. you don't have to go to college to make video games. if there's one business where really that doesn't matter, it's this one it.
[00:39:35] Yet, if you do go, you need to learn things that are probably outside of your core, and those things will make the difference. So let's be clear. I didn't go to Harvard to learn video games. I went to Harvard because we were gonna learn about business and what it means to operate and grow a business from 10 million to a billion.
[00:39:56] Let's just use that number, that way of thinking, [00:40:00] that way of understanding, that way of being able to interrogate yourself and at the same time, see the world for what it is, not what you'd like it to be. That was the difference.
How do you do it all?
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[00:40:12] Alexander Fernandez: one of the things that I know about you is that you've always been curious and despite not going to college, you always made sure you were educating yourselves all of you. But additionally, like I saw you go out of your way to teach a lot of people what you learned. And that's another thing that it's really hard to describe what the giving back is, but I think that it has also been a big part of who you are. You were a big part of the global Game Jam and you were on the board for many years. You helped make and steer a lot of decisions. Additionally, you've worked with a lot of other nonprofits and as well as with the people in Malaysia and different, NGOs and things going on [00:41:00] there.
[00:41:01] Susan Gold: That's been a big part of you. How do you. Integrate all of that, plus have a family and do all of those things. How do you manage to keep yourself whole, not burn out, not fall apart? What are the key
[00:41:17] things that make you able to wake up every morning and go off to work at 6:00 AM
[00:41:25] Alexander Fernandez: Yeah, it's four 30 now because of the kids.
[00:41:27] Susan Gold: Oh God.
[00:41:30] Alexander Fernandez: It's if I want daddy time for me, me time, it's, four 30 in the morning to 6:00 AM That's what happens. but,look, okay, I think there's, if you really wanna know how good you are at a subject, teach it to someone. If you want to just be very direct teach and then you'll find out are you that good or not? And it's not because of your capability. It's watching the other person's capability grow and they excel and one day surpass you. I think the other [00:42:00] side on this is that you come to a moment in time, at least I did in my life, where, I read a lot, I executed a lot, I burned my hands every which way I cut my face on everything.
[00:42:11] And then I knew that there will be a moment in time where I won't have the energy for this anymore and that, when that day comes, I want to know that whatever this experience was more useful than just the money in my pocket. So being able to provide that to other people was extremely important to me.
[00:42:29] And I just got to a point where I was like, you know what, if streamlined and myself can help to onboard. The global south with anyone who wants to wherever they are, we're gonna do that. And what we're gonna do is just be frank and honest and to the point we're gonna take away the decorations and the, oh, it's all about beauty and this, no, it's not it's hardcore.
[00:42:50] This is what it looks like. Because what we're not gonna do is basically bring in people who get victimized by it. Because you need to know eyes wide open. What it is, know the game you're [00:43:00] playing is basically what that is. At the same time, it's not gloom and doom. It's beautiful, but you have to be honest about it. And I think this is where when you look at the writing and you look at the videos and you look at the stuff that we've done as an organization, we always come back to a core center that we're eternally grateful and have a lot of gratitude for the opportunities we've had for the punishments we've taken, for the failures we've had.
[00:43:26] But we refuse to let them twist and distort our understanding of life. Because in the end of the day, you don't need video games to live. It is such, such an opportunity to work in this space. But at the same time, we're also not gonna say as though it's just the easiest thing ever. And I think those two things being true is what we focus on to say, look, all the blessings we've ever had, all the opportunities we've ever had, the chances we've had, we're gonna give back as much as we can to whoever wants to have, help [00:44:00] or to be a part of it.
[00:44:01] So you know, there's a moment in time where you're like, okay, how about we teach some of these kids to actually be in this industry so they too can then move their lives up. So their economic mobility, social economic mobility goes up as well, and they get to inherit this.
[00:44:16] Susan Gold: Yeah.
[00:44:17] Alexander Fernandez: that's effectively what's happened.
Winding Down
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[00:44:18] Susan Gold: As we wind this down, I wanna ask you, what is making you excited right now in our industry?
[00:44:27] Alexander Fernandez: You know what? there's actually three major things that I'm excited for right now. Number one is that I'm excited for the next 3 billion people to be joining the games industry. And what I mean by that is the global south, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, middle East, they're all coming.
[00:44:42] They're coming. They're playing, they're making great content. They want to be making their own culture. they want to see their imprint on this world and in this industry, which I think is fantastic. So we're gonna net positive on that as an industry.
[00:44:54] The other thing is basically the leveraging of a technology. we are seeing our new platform Stream [00:45:00] Frame, the new versions coming out here, which we're super excited about and I love it because I like automation. Again, I want people to live in the zone of genius, their zone of, actual maximum capabilities. I don't want them pushing buttons and reading spreadsheets. It's just stupid. Why are we doing that?
[00:45:16] I think the last thing is really more of a philosophical change of what this industry is becoming, and I think that this is probably the hardest part for people, but the truest part about it, we are going to a Hollywood style production system. The games industry has all but decided that games will be made by teams that build up and build down, scale up and scale down. It will be more of a industry where people work together, but they will not have these formal working relationships like being employed, especially in the global North US, Europe, Canada. Where the costs are prohibitive, people will become entrepreneurs. They will become either a band of people that roam together or individual [00:46:00] contractors.
[00:46:00] And yes, I know how scary that is for people to hear, but you have to get past the fear and realize what it means is the freedom, the opportunity to choose and work on what you want. But it does mean becoming responsible for yourself. But I don't think this is just a video game situation. This is the world economy and the industry has a tendency to react quicker to these changes than other industries do.
[00:46:26] It's adaptability
[00:46:28] Susan Gold: it, it really is. Besides looking up on YouTube to see video game, real talk old episodes, how else should people try to catch up with you or follow your work?
[00:46:40] Are you starve up on everything?
[00:46:42] Alexander Fernandez: Yeah, so everyone gets to basically be nauseated with my photography. If they go to my Instagram, they can see my photos or you can see Alexander do street photography, so I'll go vomit on them, starve up on Instagram, and substack. I actually, on Substack, I release, an [00:47:00] essay nearly every week about a subject matter specifically to video games or something related to leadership and management.
[00:47:05] It's the written form of. Sending knowledge and spreading the knowledge, like sharing it and saying, Hey guys, here you go. And again, I'm not gonna say what I know is right. All I know is that it worked for me and this is how, and here's where it worked and here's where it failed. But I'm willing to open it up to people because again, I know how hard it is to hear the truth.
[00:47:23] Susan Gold: Alexander, I wanna thank you again. I wanna wish you and streamline. The most success. I just can't even tell you how proud I am to, to remember that 25-year-old. I met in Singapore and I was like, who is this guy? He's just a baby. And he's telling people like the truth. And I'm like, woo, I wanna know you.
[00:47:51] And then we turned into family. So I feel so fortunate. Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast, for being a part of our [00:48:00] industry and for sharing the knowledge and things that you have experienced. I truly appreciate it, Alexander, thank you so much.
[00:48:08] Alexander Fernandez: Thanks for having me, and again, thanks for everything you do. It's been fun.
[00:48:12] Susan Gold: Thank you.
Outro
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[00:48:13] Shirley McPhaul: Want to get involved with the G GJ podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Please send your ideas, suggestions, and questions to ggj pod@globalgamejam.org and tell us who you think we should be talking to next. What stories or issues matter most to you about the future of games, and help us highlight the people and practices that make a sustainable, creative life and games possible.
[00:48:39] Thank you for spending time with us on the GGJ Podcast. This conversation sparked something for you. Please share it with someone who might find it useful, and don't forget to follow along so you never miss new stories from makers around the world. You can find more episodes, resources, and information about the Global Game jam@globalgamejam.org.[00:49:00]
[00:49:00] Catch us on substack and on YouTube and anywhere else you find podcasts. This has been the GGJ Podcast. Thanks for listening and keep making games.