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Authentic gay conversations on personal development, life coaching, and mental health. Join Keegan Hirst, founder of Gay Man's Coaching and former professional rugby player, for weekly real talk about gay lifestyle, coming out, relationships, business, and authentic living. Deep, honest conversations that help gay men build confidence, find community, and create vibrant, unapologetic lives.
Hello and welcome to the Gay Man's Coaching Podcast, the podcast for gay men who want to build the best version of their lives, to build a life that they're proud of. I have an amazing episode coming up with speaking to Chris who's our Head of Performance at GMC and one of my very best friends and he has an amazing story you know coming through rugby he's talking about his dad's sexuality, why GMC is so important to him, talking about his sobriety, talking about his clients. I'm really really excited for this to have a chat with Chris because he's such an incredible human being for want of a better phrase and there's going be lots of value in here. I'm also doing this really excited about our Edinburgh event tomorrow. Me and the coaches are all heading up to Edinburgh for our four or five day multi day event in the town.
Speaker 1:We have got kilt fittings, gala dinners, we're doing whisky experiences, Hollywood House, The Castle, obviously we've got our massive action days, we've got runs and walks together, we've got the Highland Games, we've got CrossFit, we've got mindfulness sessions. It's going to be an incredible incredible week and we're going to finish it off on Sunday by going up after seat which I'm really looking forward to. I love these events getting to spend time with people, getting to you know just really connect and get and ask questions that you might not normally ask or find things out that you might not normally find out. Also people bring in their partners So you just get to have that even deeper human connection with people and I'm so excited about this event. We put so much time and effort into them.
Speaker 1:We've got over 20 odd clients come in, some of them are bringing their partners, we've got five non GMC members who are coming who are going to be able to experience it which is amazing. I'm really glad that we're able to open up the ability for people to be able to come. But you know without banging on about that, you're not coming you've missed out now but it's going to be an incredible event and I'll be putting together a vlog and you'll be able to see it and maybe you can have a look and go, do you know what, I don't want to miss out on the next one. Our next multi day event is in Montreal in September. We've also got an event down in London in June.
Speaker 1:We've got our retreat in August. There's loads of stuff going on. And our adventure days we've got we're doing one in LA in UCLA campus sorry in April and then we're doing a UK based one which is down in Cardiff in Wales. But without further ado, let me introduce my friend, our Head of Performance and a truly wonderful and inspiring human being, Chris Annakin. So Chris, welcome, mate.
Speaker 1:Good to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Looking forward to chatting to you. We've been working together for a while now and I I've known you for a long time. Obviously, we played rugby together. But for people listening who don't know you yet, who are you? What's your role inside GMC?
Speaker 1:And, yeah, why is why is working with GMC important to you in particular?
Speaker 2:I I used to be a special Rumble League player. I played with Keegan both for and against. I was top level for over a decade alongside that. I was doing one to one coaching on the gym floor as an in person trainer. I retired due to too many concussions And when when I when I did, mister Keegan reached out and knew I was a coach, asked if I wanted to join GMC.
Speaker 2:And I do have a connection to the, gay community. My my dad was gay. He passed away five years ago now, and I believe that that was down to him not really coming to terms with his sexuality. He never really came out as being gay comfortably, only those close to him really knew. And, you know, with that, he had, drink and drug issues as well, which ultimately caught his life short.
Speaker 2:So when Keegan asked me to jump on board and, you know, explained what this this movement is and what it's about, you know, helping gay men live happy, healthy, fulfilling lives, you know, it it it it was it was an absolute no brainer. And sometimes have to pinch myself, because, you know, I genuinely believe that if my dad had been a part of GMC or had this level of community, this level of support, this level of coaching, then he would still be here today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. I love that, mate. I think, yeah, for for people who don't know, you know, some of our coaches are gay, some of them are not, but everybody has a special connection and reason for being part of of GMC and and involved in what we do. And and your role within GMC has evolved a lot.
Speaker 1:Right? We've started off as a coach, and then as GMC has grown and and like you said, this kind of movement has grown. You're now head of performance. You you do still have your own clients, but you look after the coaches and and and help them. I mean, just over the years that you've been with GMC, what how have you seen GMC grow, what we do, who we help, how we help people?
Speaker 1:Like, what what do you feel has changed the most over over the last few years?
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I think the impact that we have has certainly increased. Of course of course, the number of, people that we're helping, has increased, but I think the the actual impact on each individual, we we're not just getting physical results anymore. We are, you know, improving people's mental health. We are getting people from, you know, depression to living, happy, content lives. We are getting people stuck in dead end jobs to, you know, promotions, starting new careers.
Speaker 2:We are, you know, getting people who suffer with gym anxiety into, you know, climbing Mount Everest and running triathlons. You know, we are getting people who are not body confident to take part in photo photoshoots. Like, we are we have we yeah. It's no longer just a personal training service. It's literally a life transformation service.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I agree, mate. And it's that that holistic approach and because a rising tide lifts all ships. Right? So, you know, we obviously will help people with the physical, the mental, the career, the relationships, everything touches on there.
Speaker 1:Talk about look good, feel good, play good, don't we? And we talk about feel good being the mental side of things. You touched on mental health there. You're very good at spotting when a client's journey challenges are tied in with their mental health and that's like your specialty and it's something that you help the coaches with developing with their own clients. What for you are some of the signs that that is bit of a a bit of an issue, a bit of a roadblock, something to to work on?
Speaker 2:I think the number one thing is, you know, isolation, lack of comm lack of comms not willing to share. The, you know, the the the chart is very surface level, and it's almost you know, when when you're trying to dig a little bit deeper, it's it's rejected, if you will. Mhmm. But, yeah, you know, it it it comes down to that sort of communication.
Speaker 1:So so when someone, you know, joins GMC, whether that's with you or one of the other success coaches, you know, and us as a coaching team, how do you approach that with someone and almost, well, yeah, challenge them and say, this is something that we need to work on. Because people can be defensive about it, right? It's often a big bridge and being able to share and be open vulnerably when you're in a, you know, not the greatest of states mentally. What would you say have been some of your key coaching principles and things that we pass on to the coaches to help, with clients and start to progress them on that on that journey?
Speaker 2:I think the the number one thing is to, you know, remember us as coaches. Obviously, we have got a therapist on board, but us as coaches are not therapists. So we we know it is important that we do stay in our lane. But, you know, being able to like, I feel like life experience, being able to relate. I know from I've suffered with anxiety, I've suffered with depression, and I know that when you're in those times, you do feel alone and you can feel like no one else understands and no one else is you know, asked to go through what you go through.
Speaker 2:No one else feels how you feel. No one else thinks how you think. And, you know, the so I think it's important as a coach to to empathize, understand, but also be, you know, be able to relate and let them know that, you know, they're not alone. And, you know, the the one of the greatest, stories that I heard from, being in recovery is, you know, there's a, you know, an alcoholic stuck in the the the the bottom of a hole, and he's crying out for a doctor. A doctor comes, throws in some medication, walks away, and, obviously, he's still stuck in the hole.
Speaker 2:He he prays out to God. A priest comes, says a prayer for him, walks away. He's still stuck in the hole. A bit a businessman comes along, throws him down with some money. He's still stuck in the hole.
Speaker 2:It's only when another alcoholic comes and, you know, says, oh, I can help you. Jump straight down in the hole. And the guy at the bottom says, what you've done now with Postock? And he says, no. I've been here before, and I know how to get out.
Speaker 2:And I think having that mindset with coaching is understanding where your client is at, relating that through personal experience and sharing what's worked for you and taking it from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love I'm going to touch on you being in recovery and you sobriety and and how that's impacted you and how that informs your coaching as well. I'll come to that in a in a little while, but, you know, that's something that we talk about, isn't it, as a team is about that we're really passionate about is is being in the trenches with our guys. It's so easy for people to think that as coaches, we've got all our shit together. We know what we're doing.
Speaker 1:We never make mistakes. We never struggle. And that's just not the case. We're we're human beings, and there are so many coaches. And this is a trap that I certainly fell into when I first got into coaching was feeling that I had to be a robot, feeling that I had to look like I had my shit together all the time, that everything I did was perfect, and and and try to be an exemplary example, but that that can be it can be quite off putting to people who feel like that's so far away, especially when people are anxious, low, overwhelmed, find themselves shutting down.
Speaker 1:So just on that then, when people do find themselves anxious, low, overwhelmed, and and shutting down, what do you feel good coaching looks like for when someone's in that kind of position?
Speaker 2:First of all, listen. You know, be be you know, lend the ear. Try not to well, do well, do not judge. Do not always try and fix and help. You know, sometimes, know, your job might just be to to listen.
Speaker 2:And I can only go from my personal experience, and that is, you know, when when you are in that place, although it might not feel like you might not wanna share, you might not wanna, be around other people. That's what that is what you need. So trying to connect trying to connect those people with, you know, people in the community, in the hub who's also being in similar positions. I think that's really important, and this is one thing that I learned, again, for experiences. You know, we we often say we're you you often hear that, you know, when you're anxious, when you press, it's you know, you need to open up, you need to share your feelings.
Speaker 2:That's how you get well and feel better. But I add on to that that it has to be with the right person. Know, growing up, was always an alcoholic and I tried numerous times to share my thoughts and feelings with my parents, with my family members, with my friends, and the advice I got was actually looking back was quite harmful, but that's because they don't understand my issue and understand me as a human being. As soon as I got surrounded with other alcoholics and I share my thoughts and feelings, then I got the results I want. So of course, is super important and it's lifesaving, but who you share to is also just as important, which is why the GMC again is incredible because it offers such a huge community from different backgrounds, all unique, all there for one reason supporting each other.
Speaker 2:So they, you know, they have they have both. They have people to share to, but also the right people to share to.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love yeah. I love that. And we talk about the community, and, obviously, we have a a big team of coaches. You've touched on as having the psychotherapists, physiotherapists, like, all those guys as coaches and and each other as peers as well.
Speaker 1:Do you do you think that's the biggest, I don't wanna say mistake, but biggest thing that you see when people are struggling mentally? Is it that kinda hiding and isolating and waiting until they feel ready?
Speaker 2:Yeah. 100%. And I think because it it does come from that, you know, when when you're feeling those feelings, you can only it it's really hard to feel those when you also feel loved and part of a community. Like the dot it's real hard for them to sort of coexist. So, you know, when we do start feeling that way, we often that is one of the unhealthy coping strategies is is pulling yourself away and isolating yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's not something that's specific to gay men. I think it's very typical of men in general. It's why lots of men don't wanna go to the doctors. It's why they don't share things and we bottle things up.
Speaker 1:And whether that's to do with society, the patriarchy, upbringing, whatever it might be, it's the antithesis of what we need. And and, you know, we've got so many stories within the community of people who've challenged that and got the benefit from it. You know, us as coaches, we've got so many stories of our clients who've done that. When someone finds themselves in that position where they are slipping, they do want to isolate, they do find themselves struggling, what what would your what what would your advice be to one of your clients, one of our guys, or somebody who's listening to the podcast if they find themselves isolating and and, you know, putting those walls up when they're struggling.
Speaker 2:Of course, the the you know, it it would change depending on what the the reasons would might might be. Sometimes there are no reasons. Sometimes it's just a matter of putting things in that are that bring structure and that bring routine. I believe that everyone's got, like, a tank. Sometimes I often call it, like, a stress tank, but you can use it as, you know, like an emotional tank.
Speaker 2:And, you know, everyone's got one and everyone's slightly different, bigger. Some people can handle loads of stress, loads of emotions, some people can't, and that's okay. And, you know, a life when when we go through things, you see it just adds and fills up the tank. Once that tank gets full, that's when it starts unflowing into unhealthy coping strategies, whether that's drinking, smoking, sex, gambling, porn, isolating, being aggressive, whatever it might be. Again, unique to everyone.
Speaker 2:The key is to put in like a little tap on the tank. So and we call those the healthy coping strategies. And that, again, will be completely unique to the individual. Like some for me, I love meditation. I love being out in nature.
Speaker 2:I love cold water dips. For some people that might sound like torture. So it's again, it's it's important not to listen to me and to write down what what brings you peace, what brings you serenity, what calms you down, what connects you, what bring what makes you present, and write a list of those of all those different things and put them into your day to to anchor you at you know, to anchor you through the the the difficult times. And, you know, for like I said, that's a little tap then. It's just, like, letting out the emotions, letting out the stress.
Speaker 2:So that's the way that you can be proactive with it. Once you find yourself in those positions, it depends if it's anxiety, is it depression? For anxiety, breath work is for me number one. Breathing changes our nervous system. You'll see when when weightlifters or athletes are going to do something that's gonna take, you know, a full exertion, you'll see that they that they will, you know, exhale and they'll do big, big inhales, short exhales, big inhales, short exhales, and that's gonna get the body in the fight or flight response.
Speaker 2:Okay? To reverse that and get you in that sort of rest and digest, you need to exhale longer than you are inhaling. So you can use things like three, four, five breathing, where you inhale for three, hold for four, out for five. There's the standard box breathing. And these are brilliant for things like the in the moment, in the cure, but as well, like meditation for me is a big one that when done consistently can really help manage those emotions.
Speaker 2:But again, those are habits and behaviors that people can implement to help improve their headspace, but I would strongly recommend, you know, community sharing, being of service to people. You know, like, you know, do things for other people. That is all in there. How are you gonna feel good? Like that feeling of worth, you know, being of service.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think that can sound like a lot for people and you go, my God, adding all that in. But I think that's the beauty of what we do at GMC is, you know, adding adding things in slowly, small changes. I always say slowly, slowly, catchy monkey is my kind of saying how we make changes in the because people are people often try the quick fixes and the big overhauls and then never stick, And that's why our results last. And and and you know, speaking of lasting results and and something you've mentioned a couple of times is your own sobriety.
Speaker 1:You've been sober in recovery for a few years now. How does that inform the way that you coach, you know, when it comes to because I know you're not someone who would just go, right, I'm off booze, so you should be off booze. Like it's know? But, obviously, our experiences as human beings shape our philosophies and our our takes on things. So how does your sobriety and recovery inform the way that you coach?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a great question. So, yeah, I've been sober over four years now, and I always let my clients know from the off that I am in recovery. I'm very proud of my recovery. I'm very proud to be and grateful to be a recovering alcoholic.
Speaker 2:He's taught me so much, and it comes across in my coaching quite a lot. Because, you know, I'm a big believer. You know, there's there's many coaches out there, and, you know, we can all use. And that's all, like, the the the metrics and the measurements of the data that we use and the calculations to, to get results are the same, you know, throughout pretty much. But, you know, everybody is unique, and everybody has got a different journey.
Speaker 2:And it's, like, for me, real coaching comes from from that ability of, like I've said before, you know, empathizing, understanding, being being able to meet clients where they're at. And that comes from, you know, emotional maturity. It comes from life experience, and recovery has given me, you know, heaps of that, which does come across. I am not a an iron fist. Do this.
Speaker 2:If you're not, then, you know, you're a failure type of, coach. I, you know, I do my very best to help clients feel positive and see the wins even on their bad weeks. And, you know, I I really you know, I'd like to think that, you know, my my my clients would, would agree that, yeah, I'm a very arm round, hold your hand. Look. I'm I'm I'm here with you.
Speaker 2:I'm in the trenches. We can do this. It doesn't matter how fast. It doesn't matter, you know, how hard. We'll get there one step at a time, one day at a time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that is yeah. You you you know, your patience and ability to lift people up is, you know, is what makes you a good coach and what makes you such a good teacher to our coaches as well is, you know, imparting that wisdom and that knowledge on people.
Speaker 1:I know we deal with a lot of our members who are high performing individuals, whether they are entrepreneurs, business owners, team leaders, you know, also parents and, you know, pillars of their community. Often people use food and and and drink as well as as a bit of a crux. What What would you say to people who are in that kind of position who know that they're drinking, not necessarily a problem in the sense of they're an alcoholic or they're relying on it or anything, but they know that their drinking is holding them back in some way, shape or form, whether that's from forming better connections, from getting results, from just derailing their progress. We see this at the weekends a lot, don't we? And they know that, but they're scared of what life looks with a little less of it or with none of it.
Speaker 1:Or how do you go about challenging people's ideas around around that?
Speaker 2:There's there's so many, ways I'm thinking about answering this question. The I'll I'll start with my big thing is when people find themselves in those situations is, you know, for them to ask themselves, what is my motive for for this? Is it is it because you genuinely want to do this? Is it because this is what you want to do? Or is it are you changing the way that you feel?
Speaker 2:Are you hide are are you doing this to hide away, to cover things up, to and, you know, it's because, like, with things like alcohol, you know, they can be both. And I think sometimes when we when we go through life and same with food, you know, nothing obviously, there's nothing wrong with eating Ben and Jerry's whatsoever. There's nothing wrong with having a beer. But what is your motive behind it? Are you, you know, going out to celebrate something?
Speaker 2:Are you going out to enjoy some ice cream with your kids, or are you stressed, sad, you know, feeling that you don't want to be feeling, and you're reaching for the Ben and Jerry's on your own, you know, to to to change how you feel. And knowing that and having that clear divide between the two and having that second where you're questioning, what are my motives here? And is this is this taking me towards the life I want, or is it taking me away from the life I want? That's, you know, that's the sort of simple I say simple. That's a logical way of looking at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a simple filter, isn't it? It's not necessarily easy to do, especially when we find ourselves reacting because we're angry, we're sad, we're stressed, we're been in a fight where something big has happened or there's, you know, it's a bit of escapism, but that that pause to choose whether you react or respond and how you do it. That's a big part of what we do with our clients. It's a big part of how we install long term change.
Speaker 1:And it's a big thing that we coach our coaches to be able to help our clients with. I mean, just with that as head of performance, looking after the coaches, what are some coaching principles that you find yourself, you know, kinda drilling into the team that are big pillars of what our ethos at GMC?
Speaker 2:That we are that we are not a physical boot camp transformational coaching service. We are here to create not create, but, you know, to to to help serve happy, healthy human beings. And, you know, there are no set structures on how we achieve this. It's not gonna be one, you know, one rule fits all. You know, we have to argue and adapt.
Speaker 2:We have to meet clients where they're at and, adjust their journey to to suit them and and to suit their needs. And, you know, ultimately put their their health and happiness first so that we don't complicate their life. We complement it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And we talk about consistency a lot, don't we? That's how we get results by helping clients be consistent. I mean, life, because that's the thing, isn't it? You've talked about there's transformation coaches where twelve weeks, we're going to diet you down, you follow this meal plan, you do not deviate from it.
Speaker 1:You look shredded on a photo and then you lose all your progress. That's not consistency and that's not what we're about. So what does consistency actually look like in real life for our real clients who have real responsibilities and and things going on?
Speaker 2:Well, we've got so many different sort of structures in place for these guys, and every coach does this slightly different. You know, we talk about gear systems. We talk about the ABC week, and it's about, you know, looking at the week ahead and being realistic with your approach. You know, let you know, if if 80% compliance is is all you can achieve that week, then that's all you set out for. If you're setting out for a 100 week in, week out on the weeks that it's actually impossible to hit, you're gonna you're gonna feel like you're failing, you're gonna feel like you're, losing when in fact, you know, you're doing all that you can.
Speaker 2:And, you know, that is that is another sort of coaching method, philosophy that we sort of go by is, you know, do your best, surrender the outcome. It's that, you know, progress, not perfection. You know, if you've if you've can only hit 60%, like, if you wake up and you've only got, 20% to give and you give it, technically, you give it a 100%. And that's sort of all we all we ask of our clients is and we coach them to only ask that of themselves. So we we just consistently won, you know, a 100% effort and a 100% compliance of what is actually achievable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And and because your best varies from week to week, doesn't it? Sometimes your best is own it is a 100%.
Speaker 1:Sometimes your best is 50% as long as you're giving your best as you what you're able to give. So just to just to wrap this up then, if someone's listening to this and they feel like they've tried everything, what would you want them to hear?
Speaker 2:Join GMC. I could honestly, I could not think of anything else. I you know, don't give up. Never give up. K?
Speaker 2:The the there's there's always something. Focus on focus on the moment, focus on the day, keep it small. You know, it's it's only then that things stack up. You know? First of all, like, with me in recovery, if I think, you know, I cannot drink for the rest of my life, it sounds huge.
Speaker 2:It sounds impossible. But if I just think I've just got to get to bed tonight sober, that's easy. And, you know, I do that every day. Eventually, the day stack into weeks, the week stack into months, the months stack up into years. And, you know, you can have that same approach with anything.
Speaker 2:Keep it in the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It compounds, doesn't it? I think, you know, that's a big thing for us just taking things step at a time. Well, mate, I really appreciate you jumping on and sharing. If you've got any questions about, you know, Chris's journey or want to hear more, then please reach out.
Speaker 1:You can message me. You can email me, kegangmanscoaching dot com. But as always, guys, look after yourself, stay safe, and don't eat and drink at the expense of how you wanna look and feel. And I'll see you next week. Cheers, Chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thanks for having me.