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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 99.
Track 1: Make sure that what
you're doing is moving you
towards the goal of what you want.
Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, helping grass farmers learn from
grass farmers, and every episode features
a grass farmer and their operation.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode, we have
Bodie Wilmont from Australia.
We're talking about his journey.
He's in early days of it.
My daughter will laugh
because I said early days.
Anyway, he's getting started
there just a few years in.
He's battling Lantanas..
It's an invasive weed there.
A very interesting episode.
I think you'll enjoy it.
He is grazing multiple species,
or trying to, and getting started.
Before we get to Bodie, ten
seconds about my farm.
And we're just going to talk
just a little bit about the podcast.
We are quickly approaching 100 episodes,
which is a very exciting benchmark for me.
Um, when I started this out, I
wasn't sure we would ever get there.
And I'm just amazed
we're, we're almost there.
And we have a very special guest for
that 100th episode that you'll have to
tune in next week to find out who it is.
Enough about that.
Let's talk to Bodie.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Bodie, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
Track 1: Thanks Cal,
it's awesome to be here.
I listened to all the episodes and
it's pretty cool to be on one of them.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: I appreciate
you joining us today and you're
joining us from a long ways away.
So we'll, we'll talk about
that more in just a minute.
Just get started.
Tell us a little bit about
yourself and your operation.
Track 1: Thanks, so I'm Bodie
Wilmot, I'm 34 years old.
My, my wife and I have a small
farm in just outside of Ipswich
in Queensland, Australia.
So we're probably 45 minutes from
Brisbane, which is on the, on
the east coast of, of Australia.
We moved here just about two and
a half years ago and I wanted a
farm since I was six years old.
So this was a, you know, it was
a, it was a 26 year dream for me.
And when it, when it finally
happened, it was, that was a pretty,
that was a pretty awesome day.
And then we moved onto the farm
and Well, what do we do now?
Where do you, where do we start?
And okay, well, what do you
want to do with the farms?
Like, well, I've always
wanted to have cattle.
I used to play Lego with my brother
when I was a kid and we'd have,
we'd have cattle all over the place
and you'd build ranches and stuff.
So I started learning about that.
I've got.
I've got one cousin with a property
reasonably close to me and he was
he pointed me in the direction of a
few of a few resources to when I was
asking, like, what I was trying to
find out what to, what to start with.
And the first one that I listened
to was, was Gabe Brown's Dirt to
Soil and I just, I rabbit holed,
I rabbit holed pretty hard.
It really, it was all I could think about.
It was all I could dream about.
It was all I could talk about.
And that led me from, from, from Gabe
to Johan Zeitzman's man cattle felt
and the, the whole just got deeper.
And from there we
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: do that.
Yeah.
Track 1: Alan, yeah, to Alan
Savory's holistic management.
And, and that, that was how I went
from what would essentially be
a conventional farming concept.
To someone who's never done it
to this regenerative process.
And that, that's what
we're trying to do here.
We're trying to run this in a
regenerative manner rather than in a just.
Go hard, wreck the land, leave it.
Too bad, so sad.
So we're just, we're trying
really hard to leave it in better
condition than when we got it.
Which wouldn't be hard.
We've got 105 acres really
heavily timbered in hardwood gum.
We, at the moment, we farm
lantana more than anything else.
Now I'm not sure if you know what lantana
is, but it's, it's a noxious weed that
is, that has national significance.
It's toxic to cattle, it's toxic to sheep.
We lost half our first herd to
lantana, and once they get it, you
just gotta watch them die over.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, wow.
Track 1: It's incredibly difficult
to get rid of it has like a seeding
cycle of seven years, you know, so you
get rid of this years and it's back
up next year and you get rid of that
and it's back up a year after that.
So it's really difficult to get
rid of especially when you're.
You're limited on, on, on funds.
It's all well and good if you just
want to get helicopters in to spray
the lot, but it's still going to come
up next year anyway, and you're paying
a couple of grand for a helicopter.
So, yeah, we have, we have 105
pretty, pretty average acres.
It's in holistic management, it'd
be an 8 or 9 on a brittleness scale.
We, It recovers really
quickly with with rain.
We've not long come out
of some really dry period.
We had less than an inch of rain in six
months and it was just barren as anything.
And in one month it had neat high grass.
But Once it starts to dry
off, it drops off to dry and
barren pretty, pretty quickly.
So we, what you can carry when at the
moment, like at the moment, I've, I've
just been out clearing fence lines and
it's, it's probably chest high grass.
And what we can carry stock wise on
that versus when it's dry, it's a 10th.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah.
I
Track 1: support 20 head at the
moment, but in the long term too.
So that, that's been a real
challenge is trying to work out
what the right number for me is.
And we're, we had, we had 15
head for a while and we're, we're
back down to eight at the moment.
And that seems a bit more
manageable at the moment.
So we, we run cattle we've got a couple
of pigs, we've got a couple of goats and
I've got a design and I'm trying to find
a trailer for a little chicken trailer.
And the, the whole concept here is I
want to have cattle that are resilient
to their environment without me
having to pour thousands of dollars
into it because I just don't have it.
And at the end of the day, once it,
once you do become a producer, like
at the moment, we're just producing
for our own family, but once you do
produce every dollar you put into
it comes off your profit margin.
So it's all well and good to have high
quality cattle that look really amazing
on a, on a nice grassy paddock, but you've
got to put thousands of dollars into them.
I don't want to do that.
So we have.
We have cattle, we have goats for
the weed, but unfortunately the
goats don't don't eat the lantana.
They, they can tolerate a lot more
of it, but they just, the ones that
we've had seem to just leave it alone.
We've since got pigs.
We, we've got, we had a, we were out for
lunch with a friend one day and he just
said, Hey man, I've got some piglets.
You want some piglets?
Okay, sure.
Cool.
So now we've got three piglets and
trying to work out how to raise them.
So what we're doing with the pigs is
we, we have them out in pasture and I
mulch, stick rake and mulch the lantana
and then put them in there and they dig
up all the roots and they pee on it and
shit on it and fertilize it and till
it all up a little bit and then we over
sow it with a pasture mix over that.
We've heard about camels eating lantana,
so that might be something that I could,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
Track 1: in the future, but I've heard
you say that I've, I've got a, I've,
I've got a few fingers in a few pies,
so maybe, maybe camels is something
I don't need to do at the moment.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: right?
Yeah.
Run that by your wife.
Now you
mentioned your wife.
Is she, she from a farming
background, she grew up in city.
What's
Track 1: nah, she, she's, she's got
even less farming background than me.
But she, she doggedly supports my
dream and and she does an amazing
job of keeping the house running
so that I do what I do out there.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah.
Track 1: We've got a, we've got an
eight month old baby so that takes
up most of her time at the moment.
But very, very soon we'll be able
to do this, this together, which I'm
really looking forward to, to that.
You know, I, I wanted this but I
didn't want to do it on my own.
So I'm looking forward to being able
to spend time with her out there.
My dad helps a lot.
He's not from farming either, but
you know, I said, Oh, Hey dad,
listen to this book about Gabe.
And next thing he's down
the rabbit hole with me.
So he's, he's probably worse than me.
He's, he'll ring me up at 9 30 at
night going, Oh, I just listened to
this YouTube video or, Oh, I just
read this or just, Oh, we could try
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, very
Track 1: you know, he's,
he's mad keen on it as well.
And it.
I'm very lucky.
He does a huge amount of work
for me for not much more than
a rum and coke and dinner.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: There you go.
You can't beat that.
Track 1: Yeah, yeah, he's the
cheapest labourer I've ever had.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah.
Now, you said Lontana.
I, I pulled it up here.
It's a flowering plant.
Track 1: Correct.
Yep.
It's, it's
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: and I guess
you're lucky you've got it there, too.
Track 1: Yeah, it, it, it starts
it has running routes and you'll
pull sections up and the route just
pulls up 10 feet down the road.
And there's another one over
there that's connected to it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Up, and yeah.
Track 1: it's branches They're
not thorny, but you need gloves
to grab them and hang on to them.
They're kind of really rough
and they'll, they'll rip you up.
And it, it can be little, little
shrubs and it ends up in massive
thickets that you can't, you
can't drive a tractor through it.
It's,
it's, it just gets bigger
and bigger and bigger.
It has a really.
nasty tendency of setting down
roots in amongst rocks or logs
or piles of crap that you can't
get to the root to pull it out.
So it's it's self protective
mechanisms are well developed.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
It sounds like it's self preservation.
Track 1: And it's just, it's, got a toxic.
.
I think blackberries kind
of get a bit like that.
But maybe, maybe not so toxic
to the stock, I'm not sure.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
Goats love blackberries.
I love blackberries, so, you
Track 1: yeah,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: that's
Track 1: that's it.
Well, where this stuff has a
I think it's the chloroform
that, that cattle can't process.
And so because they can't process it, it
just comes out of their cells and, and
just starts melting them from the inside.
You can, if you get it really early,
you can give them some charcoal.
But for the most part, they
either will get through it.
If they can eat and drink, which
they don't want to because they
feel sick, so they just die.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's
a, it's, it's really hard.
We, we got our first herd we got
eight little Senegatrudis Angus cross
weaners, and we lost half of them
in the first two weeks to Lantana.
So that was, that was a
really hard learning curve.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
Oh, yeah, I'm sure.
And that, that hurts whenever
you're trying to get started.
Track 1: Right.
Well, I'm so sick of shooting
and burying my cows, mate.
It's, it's so we, everything that we do
since that has been, how do we avoid that?
Or how do we avoid the similar
thing that, that's like that?
So we got some goats.
My, my wife came home one day and said,
Oh, I've got a friend that wants to get
rid of some goats and she found them
on on a on a rescue page on Facebook.
And, you know, so I had, I had a very
short amount of time to clear a paddock
and put mesh wire mesh up and then
the goats arrived the next day and I spent
the next eight months just trying to clear
paddocks and fence and keep ahead of them
because hurry up those boys could eat.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Track 1: Yeah,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And you said
goats can tolerate it a little bit more,
but they're not real big fans of it.
Track 1: correct.
Yeah, my understanding is that their
rumen can tolerate five times as much.
It's still toxic, but the concept
being that if they have other
forage, they will be fine.
But the goats that we've
had just, just don't eat it.
So, I mean, I can't blame them.
It's toxic, but it would be nice
if they did eat it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And when
you, you talk about your hundred
and some acres there, are you
seeing the land tannin all over it,
or is it?
Yeah.
Track 1: It's, it's pretty prevalent.
The, the paddock that's in front of
our house when we lost that first,
that first half of the herd, I got some
friends and my family around and we
ripped it out by hand with a mattock
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh
Track 1: three big trailers
full and it, it worked.
I don't, I think I've had two shrubs
come back up since, and that would
be well at nearly two years ago.
So it works, but incredibly
labor intensive over.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: of work, yeah.
Track 1: What, strip two acres?
You know, you can't do that
for the other 98, you know
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well,
you'll be finished in a hundred years.
Track 1: yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.
And I'll start on the next project then.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Right.
Track 1: So, it worked, but how
do we come up with a better idea?
So the next, the next thing
was a stick rake on my tractor
or was it was a flail mower.
I think you guys call that a brush hog.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah.
Track 1: yeah, so we got a brush
hog and that worked really well
and it does, it does a good job.
And, and then we were, we were
cruising along up a hill one day and
there was an almighty bang and what,
it just catastrophically failed.
And essentially what happened
is one bolt came loose and
then a lot of bolts came loose.
And we were just, we were just
working the thing far too hard.
So I got it fixed and they said, Oh
man, you should put a stick rake on.
And this stick rake is like a, it's
like a big Mad Max style bull bar on
the front end loader of the tractor.
So that, the combination of those
two really works really well.
The stick rake protects the flower mower
from big logs and rocks going through it.
But I can dig it in under the,
dig the tines underneath the
crown of the, of the lantana.
And then you kind of push up a
little pile, lift a loader up,
drive over it and mulch it all.
Cause I find that the little shrubs,
the stick grape won't lift it up.
They're not big enough.
And the mower leaves the roots in.
So the two of them together
work really well, but it's slow.
It's still labor intensive.
You're burning, you're burning diesel.
And it, and it's hard, it's hard
work on, it's hard work on the gear.
And so then I was at a, I was at a
local land care group festival one
day and and I was talking to those
guys and they mentioned a fella that's
up on the north coast of Brisbane
who uses pigs to, to clear Lantana.
So I read into that and, He
doesn't use pigs to clear lantana.
He helps uses them to help manage
lantana So he mulches them and then
they get in and dig up all the roots So
it's a better version of managing your
pasture and improving your pasture than
just mulching it so It's, it's just a
multifaceted plan on how do we clear
these paddocks and get them usable.
Now when I say we've got 105 acres,
when we bought the place, there was
probably only 30, maybe 40 acres usable.
We had one paddock down the back that was
just Head high weeds, no grass in it and
that was the one that the goats first went
into, and then the paddock next to that,
the, the boundary fence along that, that
whole boundary was ceremonial at best
and I, oh, I spent three months clearing
the fence line so that I could get to it.
It looks like a highway now, but I
mean, there are big trees to get rid of.
You couldn't see through the
scrub just to get to the fence.
So we, we cleared it and then we pulled
it out and then put in a brand new fence.
And, and now that's another 15 acres.
So that between those two paddocks
has 21 more acres that I have
usable than I, than I did last year.
So that's, you know, that's,
that's, that's 50 percent more land.
I've not long finished another
paddock and it's almost 10 acres and
we've still got one up behind the
shed that that I haven't fenced yet.
So by the time I'm finished
fencing the boundaries, I will
have 100 percent more usable land
than when we bought the property.
Just, you can just put the stock in
it, then we've got to improve it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
It's a process, isn't it?
Track 1: that's it.
And I, I
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: of
fence are you putting up?
Track 1: I've got a lot of, so the, the
boundary fences are split posts with, with
barbed wire, and I, I don't know whether
you guys do split posts but they're just
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
posts, steel T posts.
Track 1: yeah, these are, these are a
timber post that you, that you rip with
a, with a chainsaw and bore a big hole
through them again, labor intensive,
pretty old school with iron bark,
and it, they last a very long time,
but it's still timber in the ground.
Locust post?
You guys call them
locust post or something?
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah, we, we
have locust posts, and people use that.
In my area, a lot more hedge
apple or Osage orange or,
Bodark posts.
Except you gotta get them
straight enough that they'll
stick out of the ground straight.
They're kinda crooked growing.
Track 1: that's it.
Well, I, ironbark's definitely not the
straightest growing trees, but if you
get them at the right age and the right
part of the tree, you can, you can get
a billet of posts out of, I mean, we,
we cut them at seven foot, and then your
end posts are at, are at eight foot,
and so a good billet, you, you might
get eight posts out of one billet, and
if you can get, three billets out of a
tree, then you're not wasting, you're
not wasting your effort on only getting
a small amount of posts out of one tree.
But again, it's hard work.
You need a big chainsaw.
I, I taught myself how to do it and I cut
80, nearly 90 posts to do that fence line.
And It looks really good, and now I've
gone, that's really labour intensive, I'm
going to do round posts, end assemblies,
and T posts, or what we call star pickets.
So they're similar, they're very similar.
So, when we bought the place, the
boundary fencing was split post
with four strands barbed wire.
And I'm running around now, and
putting in a ground wire, and putting
for the goats and it just, it just
means that the property is more
valuable because the, the, the fencing
can hold more than just cattle.
So even though it's expensive stuff and
even though it's labor intensive, it's it
just improves the value of the property.
So I'm prepared to do it.
We started off buying hinge joint.
I don't know whether you guys have hinge
joint mesh, but it's just a prefabricator.
Yeah.
So we, we had goats and I spent the
first three weeks on sticking goats
heads out of the, out of the hinge joint.
Cause they'll, they'll push their
head through and then the horns
will stop them getting back.
So we went to it.
We went to a different style of mesh.
It's called field fence, but
it's it's four foot high.
It has 13 horizontal strands
and 13, all the vertical strands
create a four inch square.
So it's, it's, and that, that's
a tied knot, so the wire doesn't
separate and the square is small
enough that goats can't put their
head through and we've, we haven't had
any head sticking issues since then.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: we put up a
little bit of that four by four We've
also done some goat field wire where
they've got the the stays are much further
apart I've got we just bought some that
we're putting up right now and it's got
12 inch stays I think the other fence
I have have They may be 15 inch stays,
because it's just more room in there.
Goat sticks their head in, they can
pull their nose back out and get their
Track 1: Yeah, maybe that's,
maybe that's the go, that if they
get stuck, they can get unstuck.
Or you gotta
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: big thing,
Track 1: stuck.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: yeah, I
really like the goat wire, because
it's cheaper than that 4x4 wire.
That 4x4 wire is expensive.
Um, The thing with
Track 1: I,
pay, I buy a whole pallet of it.
And I end up getting just
over one roll for free.
So I got a, I got a good deal
there, but it's, it's still
175 Australian for 50 meters.
So do the conversion there.
It's, you know, you, you
put up a 400 meter fence.
It's expensive.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yes, yeah.
I'm so good with these
conversions, I'm going to use
my computer to get it to feet.
So, 164 feet.
Okay, so we buy rows.
Our rows are usually I want to say 330.
But now that I say that, I'm
like, I could be wrong on that.
Oh,
Track 1: are available in, in
330 in that hundred meters.
But the roll ends up really heavy
and you flat out lifting it.
So you got more wire means
the rolls more is heavier.
So you flat out
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh,
yes.
Track 1: and, if you keep it
to 50 meters, then it's heavy,
but I can pick it up myself.
I made an attachment for my tractor that
holds the roll upright, and I just, I
unhook it, hook it onto one end, and then
I just drive the tractor along the fence
line and it just, it unrolls and, and
over that 50 meters, I strain it twice.
So I will, I'll drive out roughly
half, strain it up, hook it onto the
fence, drive out the other half, hook
it on, then connect one new role.
and then drive forward, strain that on.
So I can, I'm getting
pretty good at it now.
I can do a couple of hundred
meters in, in a, in a few hours on
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah, very
Track 1: on my, on my own.
Yeah.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: One thing
before we leave that goat field wire,
whenever you put it up, you gotta
make sure those stays don't leave a
hole next to your post that the head,
goat will get their head caught in.
Track 1: Yeah.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And those,
those stays you can tap, tap over, but
you gotta check that or you've gotta,
Track 1: I I found this fellow, he's
an Australian guy down in, I think it's
Melbourne that created this product.
They're little hooks and it's just
bent wire that creates a loop.
It's like a, like a staple,
like a double staple.
And
you, you just, you put a roofing
screw through, you sit it over your
wire and you put a roofing screw
into your post and it just holds it.
So like they're, they're
cheap as anything.
Just put, I put five over the, over
the height of the 12 foot fence
and screw it right to the post.
I think I've broken, I've
snapped one screw and that's
into, that's into hardwood.
So, I found that product really cool.
Like, to bore a 32, which is, what's that?
That's an inch and a quarter hole.
That's a really expensive drill bit
and it's a big drill to be able to
drill that through, through hardwood.
You, electric drill will
do it, but will it do it?
four times on every post, times a hundred
posts, times however many fences you got
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: right.
Track 1: pretty quick.
So, whereas these guys, I just,
I just screw a roofing screw
in, fences up, I've snapped one
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, very
Track 1: So that's, that's been a
real game changer to those guys.
They're called if you want to
put them in your notes, they're
called Davo's fencing clips.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Okay.
Track 1: Yeah.
So yeah, I've, I've moved away from
boring holes through timber posts and.
I use them on my end assemblies.
I do a box, stay with a, with a cattle
rail screw them on, and then I use star
picket saw or t posts in the middle.
And I find that with a proper end
assembly, the, the, the pickets
are more than strong enough.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Very good.
And, are you doing, you're talking
about you're expanding your area,
so you're getting some interior
fences done just the way you're
you're
Track 1: I'm, I'm actually trying not to
do too many permanent interior fencing.
I.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: makes sense.
Yeah.
Track 1: Yeah, I'd rather, I'm, I'm
working towards the idea of, of this high
intensity rotational grazing concept.
And I actually asked a question on the
grazing grass community the other week
and got a, got a variety of answers.
And it's, it's all well and
good to have daily moves.
And I like the concept of it and
I understand the reason for it.
But, I mean, I work off farm, I'm
self employed, I'm a carpenter, I
come home by five o'clock, I work
till dark, and then I work all
weekend and then I go back to work.
I understand that if you have the
setup, and you, if you have the labour
or if you have the setup or both,
yeah, it probably is achievable.
If you've got a big open paddock, and
maybe you put a forage crop there or
whatever, and you just move those step in
posts forward a few feet every day, sure.
That's not what I've got.
I've got a lot of natural obstacles.
We've got gullies,
we've got lots of trees.
I mean, I don't think it's a
lantana that will stop you running
a fence where you want it to go.
You know, so just to be able to put
up a fence is not as simple as, Oh,
I'm just going to put up a fence.
You know, it's great concept,
not necessarily applicable in
every constant, in every context.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Your question
brought some lively discussion about that
on
the grazing grass community.
And it's all, you know, I think, as
mentioned, context is so much of it.
You know, after, after a number of years,
you get your farm going, you may be able
to move closer to those More daily moves,
but right now, you know, you've got
to take everything in consideration,
that holistic approach, and you're
working off the farm, there's, and
with what you're doing, there's no
way I'd be attempting daily moves.
Sure, it's a idealized
vision in the future.
What my suggestion would be When you've
got time on the weekend, put up a few
paddocks, two or three, and then you
can run out there, turn them into the
next paddock during the week, because
you're coming in, you're tired, you've
got an eight month old, you've got
a wife, you've got other demands,
you can't just be moving stuff.
Track 1: Yeah, that's,
that's, that's exactly right.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah,
Track 1: I, I, I sort of hope
this episode is, is useful for
people who are starting out.
And, and the whole episode is
going to be, what would you
tell somebody just starting out?
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: You're
right,
yeah.
Track 1: So we, we're, we're working on
setting up on dividing our big paddocks.
Like when I bought the place, it
had four paddocks and I've now
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: So, so we've already sectioned
it up into a much, much smaller areas.
And then some of those,
some of those are great.
now to be able to set up my small
internal step in post paddocks.
And, and that, that thing that now is
nearly a week and a half or two weeks
feed is you can have that into three lots
or four lots of four days or whatever.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah,
Track 1: just now, that's what we've
started to get to the point where
you, where it is achievable to set
up small internal daily paddocks.
But it's, it's, it's just, it's not
free, you know, it's not free to have
the right, the right stock density.
It's, At the moment, I'd love to just,
like, I don't have any problems that a few
hundred thousand wouldn't solve, you know.
Just go out and buy the
right amount of stock.
But they're not free,
they're really expensive.
And you can't just trade
them left, right and center.
Maybe you can, you have a truck, you can
take them to the sale each week, sure.
But also, the sale's on a weekday,
so that means a day off work.
I don't have a truck.
I have a little stock trailer that I can
move three or four head, but, but not
half a herd, you know, and just go and set
up some step in posts, man, my ground is
so hard that you can't step them in, you
know, the, the, the, it is hard because
it's been so, it's been so conventionally
managed and compacted and it's, it's quite
slopey in areas, so you see, you see a
lot of, all the topsoil's gone in areas
and it doesn't look so bad now because
it's green but a lot of what I'm trying
to do is get some ground cover, cover the
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah, because
you got to get that ground covered.
Track 1: yeah I bought a little ripper for
my tractor recently that we can rip some
lines and just start improving it we had
ideas on You know, you listen to these
guys and they talk about Swes and Contour
Alliance and Kline and this and that, and,
and this is the, this is the next thing
for what would you tell somebody new?
Right?
Listen to all these guys, these,
these big names, the Gabes, the,
the Alan Savory and all of that.
And they talk about these
processes and a lot of them.
Unless, if you're just starting out,
they are decades ahead of where you are.
Oh, you know, it's really important
that you, that you don't kill
the microbiotic life in the soil.
Like, man, I haven't got
any micro, microbiotic life.
Yeah, it is, it is dead.
I drill a fence post hole and
it is just hard, hard compacted.
So we're, we're a long way before that.
It's all a process and you've
got to start somewhere.
And, and for me, starting somewhere is
getting the land usable because where
we've opened up the paddocks that, that
couldn't be used for a decade and now, now
we've got, we've got really nice pasture.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh,
Track 1: It's, it's a bit shitty and it's
a bit crappy forage, but, but it's a hell
of a lot better than head high weeds.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
It's getting there.
And I think you bring up
an excellent point there.
We have to all be careful about this.
And this is I bring it up on On
the podcast, you know, we're all
on our journeys where I'm in.
And my journey is not
the same place you are
and where
someone else is.
And even if my timeframe was the same,
there's so much more in that context.
What
am I working with?
What kind of?
Yeah.
Yes.
Track 1: it's incredibly
important to apply whatever you do
and whatever you listen to and whatever
you read and whatever you hear.
to your context.
It might be right for that
person, but that person might
have half a dozen stock hands.
I'm on my own.
It might be right for that person,
but they've, they've got three
generations worth of knowledge
that they can fall back on.
Sometimes full, sometimes generation
knowledge is a problem as, as, as
we know, because you get stuck into
my daddy did this and my granddaddy
did this and that's what we do.
But those, like those people
might be able to just go and.
Do a process that you hear in a
book, but they've got a hundred
and fifty horsepower tractor.
I don't, you know, so it's incredibly
important to apply learning to your
context and to what's achievable for you.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Now,
you mentioned souls really.
Hard there.
Tell us a little bit
about your rainfall there,
because,
Track 1: Yep.
So I believe our annual
rainfall is 980 mil.
When I looked it up one time,
it was, it was, it was a lot.
That's
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
inches or something?
Track 1: correct.
But, but we could, we could get
75 percent of that in two months.
So,
the rainfall is quite high, but the
distribution is really poor I mean, we, I
was looking at a photo from the, the first
week of November, and then a photo from
the first week of December, and that's
when the rainfall started, and since the
first week of December, and we're now,
what start of March, I've lost count, I, I
stopped counting the rainfall at 500 mil.
So, we've had, yeah, well over half
our annual rainfall in three months.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: That's
that's what I kind of thought you
were working with, a lot of rainfall
and then you get long dry periods.
Track 1: that's right.
Our, our area is really humid.
It's, like, we can be up in the
30s, sort of, Mid, low to mid
thirties for five months of the
year, but humidity is really high.
And it's, it's tough working
conditions out there just
sweating through your eyeballs.
But, you know,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah!
Track 1: that's, that's a different
context to somebody who has frosts.
Like we might get one
or two a year, and it's
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yes.
Track 1: Where I am, but in a 20 minute
drive away, and there's croplands there,
and they're in a valley, and they can
wreck their whole crop with a frost.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: you know, so
snow, frost, not an issue.
Snow, never.
Frost, not really for us.
High rainfall, but poor distribution.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
I, two things to note.
One thing, you know, Greg Judy talks about
tread in posts, and he takes his post,
and he puts a point on the end of them.
He says he needs it for
his ground up there.
I hate to, this may be
me doing a humble brag.
I don't have to put any points on my
tread ins to get them in the ground.
Sure, during the summer it may be a
little hard, but it's never terrible.
It's never like I hear, Other people.
So I, I don't know if the point will,
will help you putting a point on
those, may go in a little bit better.
The other thing, when I was looking up
stuff, I, you know, we had John Mackey
on here, John Mackey, sorry, John Lackey
on here on like episode 7, and he's
down by Melbourne, and I thought, well,
how far is it from Melbourne to Bisbee?
It's like 17 hours.
Track 1: Yeah.
It's, it's a solid two day drive.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: I, that, I
thought, oh, it's, it's a few hours away.
The scope is beyond me.
I, you know, I was, I was
quite shocked by that.
That's a long ways away.
So much
bigger area.
And then as I read more on, on
Queensland, I believe it's two and
a half times the size of Texas.
Track 1: Yeah.
We to Dr.
We're, we're at the very,
the very southern edge.
We're, we're probably maybe
an hour and a half from the
southern border of Queensland.
It'd take you five drays
to drive to the tip.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yes.
Track 1: driving all day, every day.
It's, it's, it's a big area.
I mean, Australia is a big country.
It's, it's, we're, we're not
just some little Pacific Island.
You know, we're a big Pacific Island.
That doesn't have many people
comparative to Europe and to the U.
S.
And I'm gonna quote a stat that's
absolutely just made up on the
spot, but 90 percent of them live
on the coastal fringes, you know.
So, that creates, that creates problems
where you go out west and you just can't
get stuff because it doesn't exist there.
Or if it does, it's gotta be on a,
on a, on a road train that takes
a couple of weeks to get out here.
But we don't, we don't have
that problem where we are.
We're only an hour from Brisbane.
We've got plenty of
supplies that we can just.
Go down the shop and get them.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well, I just,
I just want to point out how ignorant
I was because I knew Australia was
big, but when I did that, that little
Google map, I was like, Whoa, that's
way bigger than I even thought.
Track 1: It's, it's a big place.
It takes a long time to get anywhere.
When I was a child, we lived
in Ireland for nine months
and we, you fly into Dublin.
We, we was living in Tipperary,
which is, I think it was an
hour and a bit south of Dublin.
You can drive from the top to
the bottom in about three hours.
You know,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh
yeah.
Track 1: three hours doesn't
get you far in Australia at all.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well,
this, this is off topic, but we'll
chase this for just a moment.
I don't know that I mentioned
this on the podcast.
I know I was talking on a different
podcast and I talked about this.
My wife's from Hawaii.
And she, if it's not within
15 minutes of the house, she's
like, that's too far to go.
And, and I'm not, you know, we're
not that far out in the country,
15 minutes to the nearest town,
which is a couple thousand people.
It's an hour to a big city.
You know, just that, that change in
thought pattern she makes fun of me
still yet, because when I go to town,
I try and hit up every store, because
dad was very adamant we're not wasting
gas and going to town multiple trips.
In her mind, if we were in town
this morning, we can go this
afternoon, it's not a big deal.
It's just a different mind shift
there, especially when you're
considering a much bigger area.
Track 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah,
totally non relevant topic on the
Grazing Grass podcast right there.
Track 1: But fun to talk about.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah.
So, so back to your improvement, you're
seeing some improvement in those areas
that you've been able to get cleared
off and, and get into production.
Track 1: Yeah we When we first got the
piece, we've just got a little pen.
That's been really handy.
That the goats are
currently at the moment.
Once I moved them out of that into their
first paddock I, I put the cattle in
there and it's probably only a quarter
of an acre that, that little section,
and I'd put the cattle in there.
They're in there for two days.
And they, they really ate
it down, did a good job.
The pigs went in there and then
the cattle are into the next
one before, before the pigs.
And then the pigs take
longer than the cattle do.
So by the time the cattle were two
paddocks ahead, and they've now,
they've now gone out the back.
The regrowth just in that small
area over two weeks is unbelievable.
It's gone from, yeah, I mean, it's gone
from sort of hip high, dry, pretty crappy
grass, and it's lush and thick and green.
And I know it's the same species,
and I know it's not great forage,
but The regrowth when you, when
you get that high intensity in a
small area is, is unbelievable.
I mean, it's good growing at the moment,
whatever, but I can, I can absolutely
anecdotally say that this concept of
high intensity, short Small area works.
It's, it's amazing.
The, the density of
regrowth is, is impressive.
It's like we, you look over some of
the paddocks that haven't been used.
And again, it's hip high and whatever.
It seems like there's a lot of
grass, but you go walking through it
and it's bare in between the plant
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah.
Track 1: Whereas once the cattle have
been in there and they walk on it
and the piss on it and the shit on
it, and they trample some in and they
eat it all down and it regrows and.
The, the density of plants in
those areas, it would be triple.
So it is, it is starting to become
hard to find bare areas when I've been
able to get that density right down.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah.
And I know when you're talking
about, first off, it sounds like
you need a whole bunch more pigs,
get them out there working for you.
And then secondly, you know, we
had Marcos Jeffries, I believe.
On the podcast long time ago Alejandro.
on the podcast and they're in the
Chihuahuan desert of Mexico, and they're
using, now they'r dealing with much
lower rainfall totals for the whole year.
They, they deal with that long dry
period and they're using long, long rest
periods to get their grass, and they're
grazing really mature grasses, but
they're letting it they're letting those
rest periods dictate that so they have
coverage out there and get to everything.
Track 1: yeah.
Yeah, it's we've only had the pigs
for a few, a few months and everything
that I do I'm just trying to dabble
in it until I learn because we went
pretty hard with the cattle and lost
half of them and it was expensive.
The, second lot of cattle, we've,
we've, we've lost a few of them for,
for really unfortunate reasons as well.
And I mean, we spent almost 2,
000 on, on the Brahmins that we
have now and we lost two of them.
That's 4, 000.
If I lose these three
pigs, it's 180 bucks.
You
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Track 1: so I'm trying to learn when it
doesn't cost me too much if it fails,
you know and, and it's been a few months
and they're going really well, then
they're not getting fat, but they are
happy and they're doing a good job.
I mean, our neighbors said, Oh man, we had
pigs and, you know, make sure you don't
feed them all the time because they'll,
they'll get fat and you don't want that.
And I'm probably gone a little
bit too far the other way.
So at the moment I'm feeding them up
a little bit, a bit of grain while we.
Well, we're just learning, but I, I
actually have an appointment with that
farmer that I was telling you about
that does the pigs and the lantana.
He's in the middle of, yeah,
I'm going to go up and meet him
and just see what he's doing.
And, and he, I think he
runs Berkshires up there.
So it'd be nice to learn a bit from him
after he's a few years ahead of me and
see what we can see, what we can pick up.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And you
know, we've talked about, you know,
advice to someone just getting
started so often that advice is find
someone doing what you want to do
and go visit them and
see what they're doing.
So I think that's a
great move on your part.
Track 1: Yeah, that's it.
And this is something
that gets said a lot.
Find a mentor.
That's not that easy.
Find a mentor that, that,
that does what you want to do.
Okay.
Awesome.
I'll just, I'll just go
and meet Alan Savory.
It's,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Right.
Track 1: it's not, that
easy to, to get a mentor.
I haven't found it that easy.
Maybe, maybe if you've got the history
in the, in the, in the agri, in the, in
the industry, maybe it would be easier.
Maybe you've got the connections,
maybe, you know, somebody who knows
somebody, but for me, I've not
found it easy to find a mentor.
And so I, my, my mentors are YouTube
and your podcast and, and audio books.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
And I think that's great.
And when I started the podcast,
that's part of the reason I had.
Who around me is doing what I want to do?
I know these people are out there
doing it, but where are they?
Now, Actually, through the podcast,
I found some people that are local
to me doing this that were just a few
miles away that I never knew they were.
,
Track 1: The group is only based
half an hour away and obviously
all the people live pretty close.
So I'm, I became a member of
that and I love the grazing
grass community discussion page.
And so I'm trying to get them to create
that because their, their Facebook page,
It needs to be reasonably professional
and you can't just have people having
a conversation on their Facebook page.
Whereas if we had that discussion
group, that'd be, that'd be awesome.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: yeah.
Yeah.
Track 1: that's what we're working
on on getting, getting land
care to, to get that to happen.
Yeah,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And that's,
that's one of the goals of that grazing
grass community, you know, have these
discussions with, with people you may
not be able to have discussions with,
Near you, have conversations.
I would love to figure out some way
that we had maps or, or, you know,
listing of people willing to help
people because, you know, in the
goal, we're all in this together.
If we can just help one
another, it would be great.
Track 1: Yeah, that's, that's right.
I mean, I get a lot of help
from the, from, from the podcast
and from, from these books.
And so we're, we're trying
things like using electric fences
instead of permanent fences.
for the internals and
that works really well.
Like, you know what a good
thing about electric fences?
It's portable.
If you put it up and it's in the wrong
spot, pull it out, put it somewhere else.
I mean, that, that boundary that
I put in with a split post, it was
so labor intensive and it's a big,
heavy attachment for the tractor.
That's incredibly dangerous.
You can put them up everywhere and
then you decide, you know what?
I don't want that fence there.
Oh, it's staying there cause it's in.
You just pull a star picket out, you
know, and the electric fences are, it
might be right for when you put it in but
one or two years down the track and now
it's in the wrong spot because you might
have put water over there or whatever.
You might have put a gate in here
and now it's just in the wrong spot.
Just pull it out and move
it wherever you want.
I mean electric fences are just incredibly
valuable to be able to push stock
and hold stock where you want them.
And we, I've got, I've got
kilometres of that stuff.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah,
electric fence allows us to do so
much that we couldn't do before.
And those energizers, so much better
than the energizers back in the 80s.
These,
these will turn animals, which
is nice.
Track 1: we use a Gallagher MBS 100.
I've got four of them.
They're, they're a multi
multi powered unit.
So you can run them off mains, you
can run them off solar, or you can
run them off a 12 volt battery.
So I, I just have old marine deep cycle
batteries that didn't, didn't work
in the ute anymore, but they're still
perfectly good for an electric fence.
So an old, an old clapped out
deep cycle battery will run an
electric fence for a week, easy.
I've got, I've got one, one new
battery and that thing goes for ages.
I, I just find them really versatile.
The batteries are heavy, but I
can put it in a quad bike and take
it wherever I want on the farm.
Whereas like I've been really
tempted to try the JVA fencing.
They've got, they've got a
solar powered unit, has a small.
18 volt lithium battery, kind of like
a motorcycle battery that's in it.
They're a little bit more expensive than
the Gallagher ones I use, but I just, I
dunno, I just feel a little bit like if
something's not broken, don't change it.
And solar is great, but you know when
solar is not going to work when I try
it and it's going to be cloudy for a
week and then the cows are out, you
know, so I get a little bit, what
I know I use, what I know works,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: I actually
think that's a very important
concept that we can get caught up
into, and I'm as guilty as anyone.
Oh, this, this is going to work so
much better, so I need to try it.
If it's working for you, stick with it.
I have
Track 1: but, but at the same
time, don't be, don't be.
So close minded that you can't
consider when something might be
better because otherwise we'd all still
be conventionally farming, you know
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: True.
Yeah, I concede that.
You know, if there's some benefit to
be gained there, but at the same time,
don't just run out and change stuff.
I know I've got a little Gallagher here.
I want to say like a S 100.
It's not very powerful my dad had bought
it, and I actually end up using it when
I need to throw up a, a short fence.
Now it will not handle a great
load, but if I just need to put up
a single strand, split a pasture
in half on my dad's place we have a
lot more permanent interior fences.
So those paddocks are in place, I can
split them up and do more with that.
I actually have it running one
of my bigger fences right now
because I've got a energizer
that's quit and I got you repaired.
But I went and visited a
farm not too far from me.
Like I'd mentioned, I found a People
in the same county as me doing
this and I went and visited him
and that's all he runs all he runs
I'm like that doesn't work for me.
I mean it works in these
Isolated spots, but he's also
doing a little bit different.
I've got some sheep and goats I
put up some netting sometimes and
that netting will zap an energizer
if it's not enough power on it
whatever is
Track 1: zapping.
I I got myself pretty good yesterday
on the, on the electric fence.
I, I set, I set up a pump to be able to
fill my water trailers and right next to
it I've got an electric fence and I, I
turned the fence off when I was in there
just, Just, just in case or whatever.
Well, at least I thought I did and once
I finished running the, running the, the
suction pipe and putting the float out
there, I thought, oh, I've always wanted
to move that isolator up because when the
dam is full, it is, it is in the water.
So I just went over
there to to lift it up.
I was already wet, you know,
and I, I touched that poly wire
and that, that got me real good.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
I'll bet you good, yeah.
Track 1: Yeah, not only are you
touching it, but you're in the water
and you're wet and I jump pretty high.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, I imagine so.
Speaking of water, how's
your water on your place?
Track 1: We've got a lot of water.
So we're back onto a quarry and the old
owner of our property owns the land that
quarry is on and they lease it from him.
He broke off the 105
acres that we had when he
needed
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: yeah.
Track 1: downsize his assets a little bit.
And a few decades ago that quarry
put in this dam for their use and
and then there was a dispute and now
he doesn't let them use it anymore.
So when we bought it, we, We've got this
big dam and it's, it's 25 million litres.
It's, it's a big
dam.
We also have three other smaller dams that
are around about a million litres each.
So we've got a lot of water storage,
but water in a dam is only so useful.
So we're, we're doing a lot to try and
get the water on the ground and keep
it on the ground instead of, instead
of just sitting in a sitting in a tank.
You know, I, uh, I,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah.
Well, oh, yeah.
Oh,
Track 1: trailers and that has
just been game changing for me.
I mean, we've been so limited, In where
I can put the stock because the stock had
to be able to access the dam and fencing,
I've got fences that run down into the dam
and it's a pain because pretty quickly our
cows learnt that they could just go around
the end of it and then they'd be off where
they wanted to go and so fencing and our
dam is shaped, if you dropped a cup full
of paint on the floor, that's what our
dam is shaped like, it's not easy to It's
not easy to fence off, you know
whereas these water trailers, I
can put the water wherever I want.
And in general, they would prefer to
drink water out of a trough than get
their feet wet if they don't have to.
so so not only has it allowed me to access
to have water every single part of my
property it, they will prefer to stay near
the water rather than wander back and use.
Get their feet wet in the dam.
So it helps to concentrate their
efforts where I want helps not
part, not all of it, but you know,
I can set up one strand of polywire
and have the water cut in there.
And as long as I keep it
moving, they don't try to get
out of that wire too much.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: those, those little
water trailers, like they cost me.
Probably didn't even
cost a thousand bucks.
And I've got two of them.
I've got one for the pigs, I've got
one for the cows, and you've got water
on every single part of the property,
wherever you want, at any time.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: So do you,
does it have a water tank on it,
or are you running some pipe to it?
Track 1: So I think you, I think
you guys have them, like they're a
thousand litre shuttle, what's that,
330, 300 gallons, something like that,
so they're a thousand litre shuttle.
You can buy them off, off Marketplace or,
or Craigslist or whatever you call it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah,
Track 1: yeah, companies that
import products that, that, you
know, bring 'em in by the thousand
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh,
yeah.
Those
Track 1: they've always
got 'em to get an IBC.
That's, that's exactly right.
Yeah.
An IBC.
So they've, I've, I buy an IBC and
then I've made up a couple of troughs
out of out of like blue drums.
44 gallon drums, cut one in half,
make up a bit of a frame, put a float
valve in there and then I usually put
a little toolbox on the front that I
can, like if you, if you're given, if
you're supplementary feeding them with
grain or, or just treats or whatever
it is that you use for your stock.
then that can stay in there.
You don't have to cart a bucket of stuff
from your shed out to wherever your
cows are.
So, you know, and I buy all of
that from Marketplace, so the
whole setup is less than a thousand
bucks water anywhere you like.
Is it permanent?
No.
Is it gonna handle big stock numbers?
No.
But it, even if it just is good for now,
to have water everywhere on my property
is thousands and thousands of dollars.
Like poly, poly pipe is expensive.
You know, digging it in, digging
it in just even where the
gates are, that's expensive.
Whereas 2, 000, two different, two
different livestock groups, water anyway.
And even if over the decades I put
in troughs, permanent troughs, I
don't have to have them everywhere.
Whereas the water trailers
give me the flexibility to
hold the stock wherever I want.
Yeah, and it's scalable.
Like if you had a big tractor
with a big farm trailer, you
could put a big tank on there.
You know,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: right.
Track 1: pull that trailer,
but I've only got eight cows.
So, you know, even just a
tandem trailer with two IBCs
would last you twice as long.
So it's a scalable concept that
doesn't cost you very much.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah, it
is and it gives you that flexibility
where you can really target graze
an area and keep them confined
Whereas you're trying to build
lanes or or get cows to walk or
animals walk back to water wherever
It
Track 1: I actually use the
trailers to help move the stock.
If I open up the fence, they get
very testy about where the fence was
and they don't want to come near it.
Whereas if I just open up the
fence and drive the trailer
away, they're going wild.
Where are you going?
And I, it's not perfect, but, but I
find it helps me to move the stock.
Cause I mean, I do almost
all of it on my own.
So if there's a way that I can get
them to think it's their idea, instead
of having to force them, it helps me.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah,
leading cows are, and animals are a
lot, is a lot better than pushing them.
Yeah.
Track 1: it works really well
right up until it doesn't.
And it works really well.
Moving my cows is easy.
I don't have any problem moving
them, but I do have a lot of
trouble getting them into the yards.
They, they, If they start walking
that direction, they're going, if
he goes anywhere near that gate,
we're going to go the other way.
And that's, that's where
I have trouble on my own.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Have
you used your polywire reels
to get them into your corrals?
Into your pens?
Track 1: I have, I have a setup
of fences that allows me to
funnel them towards that gate.
And.
If I am in exactly the right spot with
my quad, it works pretty well and they,
they sort of just go, but I've, I've
got two cows that are really testy and
they, they will try anything to get away.
So, if I can not get them leading,
then they'll sort of follow alright.
We've, we've actually just sold them.
We, they've got a truck coming
tomorrow and we're going to try a
different breed because the, they're,
they're Brahmins and they're just.
They're just hard work for one guy.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh yeah, a little
bit more
high
Track 1: to try something.
Yeah, I mean every time I've
talked about it since and you get
to old guys and they go, Oh yeah,
oh that's Brahmins, yeah, yeah.
They're like, I call it fizzy.
It's like a Coke bottle.
You sit a Coke bottle on a
shelf and it's happy as, but
you shake it up and it's fizzy.
And when you put,
when you put Brahmins under
pressure, they're, they're fizzy.
So, you know, for somebody just
starting out, don't choose Brahmins.
They're hard work.
The
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah, and
that's my understanding as well.
I can remember when they first
came in the country in the U.
S.
my grandpa it wasn't first, in the 70s
when they were really doing more exotic
breeding 70s and then early 80s I know he
had a Brahma bull and all his Beef cattle
and this bull was as tame as can be.
I was just always shocked by how
tame he is, but then you get those
Least in my experience you get
those f1s and when they have
a baby you want to be careful
That's
my experience other people
have other experiences.
So
Track 1: Kyle, do you want to
just, do you want to tell your
listeners what an F1 is and an F2?
Because this is something that you read
when you see an ad for Cadi, you're
like, oh, F1, what, what, what is F1?
It's not a race car.
So, so what
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, well, when I think of a F1, and
I'm thinking of Brar, most time I'm
thinking of it's a Braford or a Braford.
It's a half beef breed, half
brar, of course, Brar beef
breed, but it's half that brar
breed species.
Yeah.
I was like, I should know
those and I can't think of it.
And then half of more
traditional or Or exotic breed.
Yeah.
And lot of people in our area
do Herefords and bremers.
Track 1: Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna,
I'm trying to find some Droughtmasters.
So Droughtmasters are a really
popular breed in Australia.
They're half Brahmin, half Shorthorn.
So they, They're really common, and
there's big sales that have a lot of
stud diamond genetic type stuff, and
they sell for a lot of money, and they,
they reckon they handle the conditions
for Australia pretty well and their
temperament's supposed to be pretty
good too, so, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try
and find a small, a small herd of them
I, I found it really hard to find it.
to know what to do.
In that it's all well and good to
go just buy the best thing that you
can, but it's really easy to spend
two and a half grand on one cow.
When you're just starting
out, is that the way to go?
I don't know.
I think like if we bought that two and
a half thousand dollar cow and it wasn't
from a Lantana area and it had a munch,
that'd be two and a half grand gone.
So, the first ones that we bought,
they were just under 1, 200 each.
So, it was an expensive loss
to lose four, four of them.
That's, that's, you know, nearly 5,
000, but it's better than 10, 000.
So, I think if you're just starting out I
think it's really important to Just have
a go, because you're going to mess up.
You're going to make mistakes.
Even if you don't make mistakes,
things are going to go wrong.
And you don't want it to bankrupt
you because you made a mistake
or something went wrong just
because shit goes wrong, you know.
So have a go and try and have a
go with something that doesn't
cost you too much when you do it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: You know, that's
echoing what Rob Dondle said a few weeks
ago on the podcast, you know, work with
those standard animals, things that,
that's pretty common till you understand
what you're doing before you start
getting into some of that expensive stuff.
And I think that's great advice.
And also, when you think about
that, you mentioned it earlier with
your pigs, but pigs and goats are
a lot cheaper to, to learn on than.
And sheep's the same way.
Track 1: Yeah, we I haven't gone down
the line of sheep, but the, but the
goats have been good, and they're,
they're a difficult animal to manage
in that, I, I kind of liken it to cats
and dogs, dogs, dogs are reasonably
trainable, cats will not interested
in, and I have found, The goats not
overly trainable, but I mean, there's,
there's great videos of people that,
that the goats know exactly what to do.
So I think they're just a bit
different and they are cheap to
buy, but the fencing is not cheap.
So that's something to consider
too.
You know, You know, if you've got 10
acres, then yeah, sure, give them a go.
But you've got 100 acres to fence
that there's a lot of money there.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah, sheep's
got a little bit of that advantage
of being lower cost, and the fencing
not as expensive as for goats.
But as you mentioned, sheep, goats,
cattle, they just handle so differently.
Uh, their
herding instinct, flocking instinct.
Yes, and I don't know if I've said
this, I, I like it, you know, you drive
cattle and they go around the pond
and you can get them and you drive
them up to where you need them to be.
With sheep, you may go around
the pond a hundred times.
It just doesn't stop.
You, You do it with goats, they go
behind the pond dam and they hide from
you and peek out every once in a while.
So, they're just totally
different in handling of them
Track 1: we've just got
some new goats.
The ones that we had were really good,
but they were, they were all weathers, so
they, they would never breed obviously.
And they were a British Alpine cross.
So
they, they'd stand up on a four foot fence
and their, their head is level with me.
You know, they're big, tall, rangy
boys, but very little meat on them.
So, They're good at browsing, not good
for, for producing anything, so we, we
had them for a few months until they
were eaten quicker than I could fence
and it started getting real dry, and
we ended up selling them we had two
rangelands, I don't know whether you
get them there, but I think they're a
little bit of a, an Australian cross
that has become a toned breed now
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: I don't know what
Track 1: girls, They were
just hard work, mate.
So they've, they've made some pretty tasty
curry and stews for the last few months.
We've now got two boar does and a
Kalahari buck and we've, we've only
had them for a, for a short time.
So, unfortunately, these guys, I
think they, they came from a lady
who treated them like pets and they
came in every night and they got
pellets and they got grass and.
I mean, I put these guys in that
little pen full of weed and I
didn't even know what to do with it.
So it's been a bit of a rough learning
curve for them going, I'm not feeding
you until you start eating the weeds.
And, and just in the last week
that started eating the weeds.
So there's, but there, there was
weeks worth of, I don't think
these goats know how to go.
But it's, but yeah, so I'm, I'm about
ready just when I can get around to
finding the time to move them off into one
of the paddocks and just see how they go.
And if not, then we'll either sell
them or put them in the freezer.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
And they'll probably come
around and figure it out.
But, yeah, there's a
lot of pampered goats around here as well.
Track 1: There is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well, Bodhi, we
probably need to go ahead and wrap this up
and move on to our famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
But, however, before we get there,
is there anything else you would
like to cover before we move on?
Track 1: I guess overgrazing topic.
We didn't, we didn't so much specify
that that's what we're talking about, but.
What we're trying to do on our
property is using the livestock as the
driving force in, in clearing scrub.
It's not the only thing we do.
We do do a little bit of poison.
But I don't like using poison because
it's not overly effective and it kills
everything else and you end up having
to go back and do something else anyway.
So if I can use the cattle to clear the
decade old Oxidized, low nutritional value
forage so that I can see the obstacles
and then I can get in there and I could
put up a proper fence and we can clear
the crap and we can, you know, get through
the lantana with with a, with a brush
hog and the, and the and the pigs and
the goats can eat whatever it's left.
And all of a sudden, you've now got
three different species worth of,
worth of, worth of piss and shit on it.
And you've walked in it, you've
trampled it, and now that, that
whole paddock is usable again.
The chickens they're gonna, they're
gonna follow along too, because I want,
I want them in their little trailer to
follow the cattle so that they eat, eat
the, the parasites that affect that.
Because if I don't have to buy, if I
don't have to buy a chemical to manage
the parasites on my On my cattle and
in the meantime, I have a livestock
that produces eggs and it's worth
money or potentially worth money.
That's better than spending
money on chemicals.
It's better for the land.
It's better for me.
We get the little kickback
of having your own eggs.
Same thing, like we, we, we haven't
done bacon yet, but I'm pretty
excited about getting some, some
bacon that I grew, you know, and,
and goat curry and stew is amazing.
When we put, we put our first few
steers in the freezer and like
we haven't bought beef in months.
That was, that was just an awesome
day that you go, you know, I grew
that I knew exactly what's in that
and I'm like, we, we,
we, we don't sell it yet.
We don't produce anything yet, but in, in
a few years time we'd like to, but at the
moment, just producing food for my family
has been a really, really cool thing.
So if we try to clear.
Crappy scrub with animals with
livestock as you're driving force
instead of just going right?
How can I spend money on a chemical
or how can I spend money on a
machine that will do this for me?
I think that it leaves us in
a better place than Then just
spending money on a problem.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah,
I, I think you're exactly right
with that, using animals as a
tool to, as a means to get there.
Track 1: I mean, maybe maybe if you're
a millionaire Maybe you've got the money
to spend but I'm not I mean, I'm farming
on a shoestring mate I've learned so
many different skills since buying our
farm because I mean, I have friends go,
man, how, how are you so good at so many
different things that I'll tell you why?
Cause it's cause I'm poor.
I don't have the money to pay the right.
I don't have the money
to pay the right guy.
You know, I've learned to drive a
Bobcat and an excavator and I've
taught myself to drive a tractor.
I'm far better at welding than I ever was.
I'm, I'm a pretty good rural fencer now
and all of these things because you just
get in and have a go at it yourself.
And, and before long you
go, I don't need to pay him.
I could do it myself.
And, and if I can bring my kids up
in that, in, in that environment,
then, then hopefully my kids.
and a pretty strong,
capable people as well.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
Yeah, I, I think that's great.
And I, yeah, we, we do everything because
we're too tight, too broke to spend
money on stuff, so.
Track 1: Yeah.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well, Bodie,
it's time for our famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what's your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?
Track 1: I'm sure everyone says
it, but there, there's a few.
Gabe Brown got me into this, into
this field, but Alan Savory's
holistic management really, really
threw me down the hole pretty hard.
And, and that's a lot of
what I follow on from.
But if I can, if I could also
add Johan Zeitzman's man cattle
felt and Matthew Evans saw it.
I don't know if I've heard that one.
really
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
think I have either.
Track 1: It was really good.
And I listen to audio books while I'm
working and I just find it easy to
just listen to it and listen to it
again, go back, redo another chapter.
And then the other one, which I
know has been mentioned was Call of
the Reed Warbler by Charles Massey.
And that, that I think Massey
and Matthew Evans really.
Highlight the state that our world
is at and we're in a pickle if
we don't change how we do things.
Yeah, so they're probably
my favourites, those ones.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Oh, yeah.
Very good choices.
I'm not familiar with the Matthew Evans
one, so I'll have to look that up.
My wife will be so excited,
I'll be buying another book.
Our second question, what is
your favorite tool for the farm?
Track 1: I'm a little bit
ashamed to say it, but my little
tractor is my favourite tool.
Um, you know, we're doing regenerative
stuff and something that burns diesel is
probably not the best choice, but man,
it is so handy, I, it's a little Chinese
imported brand I spent about 27, 000
on a 55 horsepower tractor plus a few
extra grand for some other attachments
and stuff, and it has not done anything
that, it hasn't been able to sorry It's
done everything that I've asked of it.
It works far harder than I think.
I think I work it to the
very extent of its design.
But I mean, I feed cattle with it.
I clear land with it.
I can lift heavy stuff with it.
I can move things around.
You can, you know,
unbulk something with it.
Like I, I would be lost without my little
tractor and I do a lot of work with it.
And then I have a, I have a
carry all that I made that.
That we do a lot of fencing
with that carry all.
It's, it's just a really handy, really
versatile tool that yes, it burns diesel,
but, but otherwise it's a really handy
little thing and I mean, it's not a
case or a John Deere or New Holland.
It's just a cheap little tractor
that that does a really good job.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: You know,
on that subject, we talk about,
you know, grazing can have a pretty
low price point to get started.
Get you some energizers, some poly
braids, some kind of reel, you can
get out there and start doing it.
I have a hay unroller we built because we
didn't want to spend the money for one.
It works okay.
But You know, I was feeding hay the
other day, putting out some bales for
bale grazing, and putting up paddocks.
We're almost at the end of that
season, grass starting to grow here,
but I was doing that with our tractor.
And I was thinking about that as I'm
doing it, because I'm thinking, you
know, I could get by without this tool.
But I really like having that tool.
Track 1: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
I mean, we, we do a lot
with our little tractor.
I've made a number of
attachments for that.
Yeah.
Make life easy for myself.
Like I can do a lot of fencing myself
with some attachments that I've made
and
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: yeah.
Track 1: Yeah, could could could you
ram the star pickets in yourself?
Yes, I could but the the the frame
that holds the picket driver that I
just drive along five paces put another
picket in You know, I can I can put
up 300 meters in an hour on my own
You can't do that ramming again by
hand, you know, so could you get by?
Yes, but I really would like not to
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Yeah.
Well, and like we mentioned
earlier, context is so much of it.
You have off the farm job as
well as trying to do this.
Some of those labor saving items.
Really goes back to that time management
for you, so you can have time to do
everything that you're trying to do.
You know, it's all about that context.
Track 1: I time management is,
is poor for me at the moment.
I think I was in before dark,
maybe five times last year.
So I need to do better
than that this year.
Yeah, I, I just, I probably work too
hard at all these different things.
And, and yeah, is the, is the job
still going to be there tomorrow?
Well, maybe sometimes you've
got to leave it for tomorrow.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And
I hate to admit this, I will
go ahead and admit this.
I try and be pretty open about any
of my struggles and everything.
I just had a low gear day.
I complained to my wife.
I didn't get anything accomplished.
I was not motivated today.
And she's like, and this
is where I struggle.
She's like, that's okay, you don't
have to be going all the time.
But, but for me, the thought is
I should be out doing something.
I've got to do, I've, I've
got hundreds of things to do.
I need to be doing it.
So,
Track 1: wife says the same thing to me
and I like the idea of sitting around
doing nothing, but in, in an hour or two,
I'm starting to look for something to do.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: yeah,
or I'm looking on Marketplace
and I about bought a new project.
So, you know,
go
Track 1: That's right.
Yeah.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Our third
question, it's kind of been the
topic throughout, but what would you
tell someone just getting started?
Track 1: It absolutely has been the
topic throughout, but I think get
a mentor, but try things yourself.
Buy the best thing you
can afford at the time.
It might not be the best, but if you
buy the best thing that you can afford
at the time, you won't be disappointed.
But don't buy something that's too
expensive because something will go
wrong and then it'll break or it'll die.
You know, so What, what, what it really
comes down to is make sure that you do
a context check with what you, does it
fit your context at the time or does it
fix your context on where you want to be?
Just, just get in and have a go.
Like, can you weld?
I don't know.
Give it a crack.
Learn.
Just, there's so much resources out there.
Don't be afraid to ask for help.
Like, this world is too hard to
live on your own, ask for help.
All of these things I think are important,
and when you'll start now, just,
just get in, have a go, have a crack.
See, see how you go.
Be prepared to make
mistakes, because you will.
Make sure that when you make, when you
do anything, assess it and see whether
it was a, whether it was a success.
Was it a failure?
What, did it fail for the
reasons that you thought it did?
You know, and try and review these
things as, as the time goes on, go on.
Well, I thought it failed because I ran
out of forage, or I thought, I thought
that thing died because it was sick.
Did, is that actually what happened
or did something else happen?
You know, was there, was, was there
another cause for what happened?
Whether it was a success or a
failure than what you thought it was.
And I, yeah, I just think, try not
to take everything too seriously.
I probably take things too seriously.
Just get in, have a go and see, see
what happens and, and, and try and, Make
sure that what you're doing is moving
you towards the goal of what you want.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Excellent
advice and tons of, of things there to
unpack, but I'm just going to, to unpack
one thing out of that and that's that
reflection piece because I think that
reflection piece is so important that
after you've done it and you've got this
result, why did you get that result?
Is that what you anticipated?
How can you do this better tomorrow?
And I know a lot of times we
do that just very casually.
Just as we go through, but sometimes
we really need to sit down and think
through it and make sure we, we give it
the adequate time that it does, needs,
because if we don't, we're not improving,
Track 1: That's it.
I, I was a paramedic before I was
a carpenter, before I was a farmer,
and, and reflection on, on jobs was
a really important part of learning.
And I, I've definitely carried
that with me through life now.
Did I, did I do that right?
Or if I didn't.
Why did that happen?
And if I did do that,
could it have been better?
And was it rightful or wrong for
the reasons that I thought it was?
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812:
Yeah, excellent advice.
And Bodie where can others
find out more about you?
Track 1: I don't have a great
deal of social media presence.
So I've got a Facebook page.
That's just a personal page.
I'm more than happy for anybody.
If they wanted to ask me
something or had advice for me
or whatever, send me a message.
I'd love to.
Love to, you know, reach out
and talk to people about it.
It is on our, on our list of of
jobs to eventually get around to
having a farm, we've got a farm
name, but to have a farm presence.
In the meantime, you know, if you ever
want to look me up on Facebook, I'd
love to hear from anybody, but we'll,
we'll add, we'll add, we'll add some
social media pages in the future.
It'll be Carimbia Farms.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: And you're
in the grazing grass community.
So you're
available there
Track 1: Yeah.
Yeah.
that's it.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: Well, Bodie, I
appreciate you coming on today and sharing
Track 1: Thanks very much, Cal.
It's been, it's been a pleasure.
cal_1_02-29-2024_182812: mine as well.