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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.11] - John Krotec
If we can't trust ourselves to do the right thing, then we're going to have a much more difficult journey in life than if we just buckled up and did the right thing. If enough people, men and women, did the right things, I don't think we'd see half the stuff that we witness on the television these days. It doesn't take much to do the right thing.
[00:00:30.09] - John S. Berry
What if the greatest threat to modern masculinity is not weakness, but confusion? John Krotec is a US Army veteran, speaker and founder of Neomasculinity Solutions. Get ready for a raw and empowering conversation on truth, clarity, and courageous leadership. Welcome to the show, John Krotec.
[00:00:52.00] - John Krotec
Hey, John, thank you for that wonderful introduction. I can't say enough about being on your show and the things that you do, because That shows leadership right there whenever we can share stories that help others. So grateful to be here, and let's get started.
[00:01:09.09] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and what I really like about your platform and your message is that so often in the last few years, we've heard so much about, first it was toxic leadership, then it was toxic masculinity. And yet it seems that one of the problems in the world, or at least from the single family households, is there's not enough fathers involved, there's not enough masculinity involved, and this misunderstanding of masculinity and its purpose in society. And so we've moved away from it. And yes, there is masculinity, there is femininity. That doesn't mean you can't choose to be whoever you want to be or pursue what you want to pursue. But there are some natural things about us that sometimes it's better to lean into than to shy away from. And so we'll go ahead and get started. And I know you talk about the sentinel mindset, so I want to talk about that. First of all, we think about a sentinel, but what's your definition of a sentinel?
[00:02:03.09] - John Krotec
Sentinel is somebody who watches and is able to identify threats to the people who they love or the people who they're protective of. A man's primary purpose in the research that we did, this is a role, this is a gender role, this has nothing to do with identity or any of that, is to protect his loved ones from threats. Now, you can have a A single mom who can take on a neo-masculine role as a protector. It doesn't mean she wants to be a man. She is just fulfilling a vintage role. Same thing with a man. If a man is a single father, he can take on a gender role of a female, femininity, but it doesn't mean that he's identifying with that. That's something completely different. To get back to the answer, the sentinel is a sentinel of information. You have tools which start with intuition, but you're provided tools to be able to hash through the information that we get. We've identified six types of information, and we'll talk about how this deals with leadership. But we have reliable information, information that's true. But then we have misinformation and disinformation and malinformation, and what we call social media, noisy information.
[00:03:27.22] - John Krotec
Now we have artificial intelligence information. Most of this is unreliable. The threat to our families and to society in general is unreliable information. What is it doing? Just tune into your TV. There's anger, there's frustration, there's hatred.
[00:03:51.07] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I'm on a low information diet. I mean, generally speaking, if it's not, I don't get too caught up in watching the news. In the end, it's sensationalized, and I'm just looking for facts. And mainstream media, there are better ways to get your information. And so I generally try to get my a little bit distilled so that it's not slanted one way or another. Just give me the facts. I can decide. But I want to get to something else that you talk about, which is in a world of noise, clarity is your greatest leadership asset. And the reason why I want to talk about this is because, yeah, on one hand, it's having the courage to do the right thing, but the other thing is there's so much noise out there. How do you get the clarity to know what the right thing is?
[00:04:34.03] - John Krotec
Great question, John. I would say that it's value. What's the value of that noise? I got to tell you, I've been in some really exotic places in my life. I've traveled the world quite a bit. I've led a lot of guided trips to the Andes Mountains. I've been all over Central America on these adventure trips, and I never said anything about them. I never shared it. I I've never showed pictures of it, and I never felt the need to. I felt like I lived in the moment and we did these things. I feel like there's a lot of need, and I'm not to denigrate anybody, but I think a lot of this noise is for acceptance. If you're not having those exotic trips and you read, let's say, I put something out, I'm in Argentina this month, and I put that out, you're going to feel less then. What's the value of what it is we're seeing on social media. If it's another one of those, I'm eating a hamburger at 11:30, great, good for you. But how much time do I really need to spend? And how much time do you really need to waste to tell me that?
[00:05:42.18] - John Krotec
What's the value? What's the noise that we're putting out on social media? Are we creating more angst than anger? Are we creating more division? Are we creating more people feeling less than because we're doing something totally fantastic? What's the value? I would say, without going around in circles here, just determine what the value is. If it's just another one of those eating hamburger things, good for them. Wish them well. You don't mean any disrespect to anybody, but don't waste your time. I would just say time is a valuable asset, and we can separate or we can save our time, precious time, by determining what's valuable and what's not valuable. If we talk about mainstream news and we're angry within 15 seconds because then turn it off. That's another thing about information analysis. If you really want to do a deep dive, I'm not going to name any names, but do a deep dive, follow the money. That's what I started to do. One of my mentors told me, Follow the money. That person, that organization, that news station, whatever it is, see who's funding them and who's financing them. You can dispel a lot of angst and anger once you realize what's actually taking place.
[00:07:06.05] - John Krotec
And guess what? We're going to have allegiance to one side or the other. It's normal, but it doesn't have to be so divisive. If we can't, John, you and I, let's say you like the Cincinnati Reds, and I like the Rays, and we come to fisticus over games and best players and best teams and all of this, all of this noise. I remember that game, and, Oh, he missed that pitch. But if we were to actually take a look at it, we would find out that we actually loved that sport of baseball. So don't be so reactive. Just think about things before. If we could just think.
[00:07:48.18] - John S. Berry
Yeah, use your head. I want to go back to... Because there's a couple of things to unpack here. Number one is you brought up, follow the money. Years ago, I was in this jury trial, and I had this expert witness. The best thing he did for me was he was like, Okay, what's the most important thing in a witness testimony? I'm like, Well, bias where they tell the truth. He said, Yes, bias. And the other side's expert witness, he said, Look, follow the money. Follow how they are funded. And he was able to show bias towards the other side. The other side presented as this is science. And no, the way it was funded, who funded it, we found bias, and we ultimately won the case because we were able to expose that bias. And so, yes, there is something to be said for when people are trying to feed you information, sometimes you got to figure out where people are coming from and follow the money. And now, one thing, as I said earlier, I think the easy thing is to go on that low information diet and say, you know what? I'm going to tune out this noise, I'm not going to let things trigger me that are beyond my control.
[00:08:49.21] - John S. Berry
I think that that is the easy thing to do. Just don't be present. But here's where I really struggle. It may be an ex-spouse, it may be someone, a former business partner, maybe someone you were close with, and maybe there was a core betrayal or the relationship didn't work out, and you still care about what this person thinks. I've noticed that when we get triggered, they can say something and they can trigger us in a way that if it was on the news or something like that, I don't care. But if it was in someone that we care about or cared about, it's very easy to devolve into an argument and to get vicious. I'm wondering, how do you avoid that? How do you take the high road and say, You know what, this is part of masculinity is being stoic enough to accept what has happened, to deal with it, and to not go off the deep end because someone doesn't agree with you, or you can't collaborate, or you just can't have that relationship anymore. How do you deal with it?
[00:09:48.00] - John Krotec
Take a deep breath. It sounds too simple to be true, but let's say somebody knows you, John, ex-wife or whatever, I don't know. And they do. They know you. They know what your buttons are. People that will do that usually know that. But a lot of times they do that because they know that they're safe with you. They know you and they feel safe. They might be having a bad day, John. They might. They know rather than... I remember I had heard this from a therapist once, and they told me, Well, everybody's walking around with a ball of Shiza in their pocket. All of us. None of us have good days all the time. On those especially bad days, We want to give it to somebody. Who can we give it to? Our significant other. It's safe, right? Then she's thinking, Why is John always doing this? I need to think about this. So thinking and breathing. We're going to get to the third one. The third one is to just remain silent. Sometimes silence is golden. Somebody tries to trigger you. They know you. They feel safe with you, us. We just think about it.
[00:11:00.14] - John Krotec
What's going through their day? I know they're generally not like this. We need to think about it. We need to not overreact. Then a lot of times, remember the old show with Barney? Barney 5, Zip it or nip it in the bud, those kinds of things. Just don't say a word. You'll keep all your energy, you'll keep all of your personal power, and you won't divulge, which I think is the word you use, into something less than you really are. It sounds like the things that we've heard growing up, but take the higher ground. Hold the standard. Don't let people do that to you. The only reason they're doing it to you is because they're having a bad day, and they know you, and they know if they say this thing, you're going to react. Change it. Change the modus operandi. That's a legal term. Don't do the same thing that you've always done because they know they're going to get to you. And guess what? Not only will that resonate with them, John's changed a little bit. That's not working anymore. But it's going to change with you. And that's what's more important. As you've learned some skill sets to not allow people to get into your personal space, your head space, and not play on your heart and have you have a bad day.
[00:12:26.04] - John Krotec
It sounds easier. It's easier said than done. But if We could do that, think, don't speak, don't overreact, and just be silent. You could change a lot of things. You've been in a courtroom. You practice criminal?
[00:12:42.01] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I used to. Here's what I learned from that. We all have the right to remain silent. Very few of us have the ability to. I have had so many cases where there was nothing. They had nothing on the person, but the person said some incriminating things. Sometimes it was an innocent person, and they were subject to an interrogation by law enforcement using the read methodology, which basically is like, Hey, I'm okay. You're okay. Let's talk about this, and just try to get the person to talk. If the person had the ability to remain silent, often innocent people who, like I said, they say something incriminating or something that Just so you understand, I think going back.
[00:13:17.14] - John Krotec
No, I get it.
[00:13:18.03] - John S. Berry
To convict someone of a crime, you have to prove the case by a reasonable doubt. But to arrest them, you just needed a probable cause, which is well-grounded facts that a crime occurred, and this person committed the crime. You have all these cases where someone's arrested and the case is later dismissed. I think it's because there's probable cause to arrest them. The cop did nothing wrong. The cop was just doing their job, but there was not enough to prove them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
[00:13:39.11] - John S. Berry
It's funny. You have the right to remain silent, but you don't always have the ability. I think that's true in a situation where someone in a position of authority, like law enforcement is talking to you, yeah, you want to be helpful, you want to talk. But then also, yeah, when someone who you care about is attacking you, you can remain silent if you want to. It sounds like that's the best course of action. And yet, for some reason, we are wired to talk, to respond, to defend ourselves. Why is that, John?
[00:14:06.17] - John Krotec
I think it's human nature to... Well, it could be a lot of things. I think, first of all, it's situational with different people. I think that certain people, really guilty people, may want to stay silent and really guilty people may want to stay silent and really guilty people may want to talk. I just think that we always want to explain ourselves. I feel like sometimes, and it's tough. My wife tells me all the time, I'm always learning. She said, well, you just be quiet for a minute so I can tell you something. Okay, so I zip it. But you're right. We have the ability, and we don't have the ability. But if we move towards silence more times than not, then we won't get in deeper than we have to. One's a court of law, and then there is real life. Sometimes the more we say, the more we defend ourselves, and the more we react, the more violent or the more divisive or the more angry things get. I wish I knew these things when I was in my 20s because I could have saved myself so many tough lessons. But that's the way it is.
[00:15:16.16] - John Krotec
We all have a life to live, and we have to learn these things. What do we hear, John? On the road to success, there's a million steps of failures, but we're not failures as long as we continue to learn. I don't know if that I answered the question, but you just have to think. Think before you say something. My dad drilled that into me, and it didn't work because a lot of times I just talk too much. Sorry, listeners, but you know what I'm saying.
[00:15:43.23] - John S. Berry
Absolutely. Let's get into that because you talked about your father. Let's talk about the leadership, the after-action review. I'd love to hear your three examples of great leadership, whether real or aspirational, and three examples of poor leadership.
[00:15:57.14] - John Krotec
Wow, there's a lot of ways we can go with that. But I think that great leadership is trust. I think that the leaders who can build trust with the people they lead are the ones that more times than not, they're going to be able to get people to follow. Trust has to be built on consistency. How stable does that guy act? We're talking about reaction. Are they balanced in their demeanor? All these things for the leader, they're not easy learn. Some of the best leaders I ever had, military and corporate, were the men or the women as leaders always kept wide open communication. Leaders who... I remember my first sergeant that I had, he always wanted to know what was going on in my life. What are you doing? How are your bills going? I had the best chain of commands the entire time I was in the army. I had first sergeants and company commanders and even battalion commanders who made sure that I was one of those soldiers that they took care of. I don't know why we call people cheese eaters that kiss butt all the time, but I didn't do that.
[00:17:09.03] - John Krotec
But those leaders knew that I would get the job done. A lot of times I got tasked out with things that nobody wanted to do, but they knew that if they gave it to me, we'd get the job done. Leaders that are able to identify the skill sets and the strengths of those who they lead, those are the best leaders. Now, bad leadership, oh, my gosh. We probably have more bad leaders than good ones. I would say somebody who says, you can't do this, but then they go ahead and do it. I think that if you're going to tell somebody, just because you have rank doesn't mean that you don't have to follow the rules. I would say that the leaders that know where they come from and know what it's like for a subordinate soldier or employee, just coming out of law school into a law firm. The people that don't strut their stuff, that know what it was like in the trenches, they can find that relatability. But those leaders that couldn't, nobody would follow them. People would snicker behind their backs. They would sabotage the relationship. Just as a leader, remember where you come from.
[00:18:22.02] - John Krotec
Leaders that forget that who got them to the dance, find it hard have people follow them.
[00:18:32.07] - John S. Berry
Wow. Yeah, that is so absolutely true. John, as we come to a close, where can our listeners learn more about John Krotec, your publications, and your mission?
[00:18:45.22] - John Krotec
Thanks, John, for asking that. You go to my personal website. It's johntkrotec.com. There are some things that you might find interesting on there. You can also go to neomasculinity.solutions. It's not a .Com or a .Org. It's .Solutions. We're actually looking for things that work.
[00:19:13.07] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we pursue our mission of promoting veteran leadership in business, strengthening the veteran community, and getting veterans all of the benefits that they earned. If you know a leader who should be on the Veteran Led podcast, report to our online community by searching at Veteran Led on your favorite social channels and posting in the comments. We want to hear how your military challenges prepared you to lead your industry or community, and we will let the world know. And of course, hit subscribe and join me next time on Veteran Led.