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Welcome to The Overflow—the bonus round of faith and real-life conversation with Brandon and Susan Thomas. Every week, they unpack the powerful insights, behind-the-scenes experiences, and personal reflections that didn’t quite fit into Sunday’s sermon.
This is where the conversation gets practical, honest, and a little bit unscripted. Whether it's an encouraging word, a deeper dive into Scripture, or a hilarious moment from their week, Brandon and Susan bring fresh perspective and spiritual fuel to keep you going.
It’s real talk, fresh takes, and full hearts.
These are the conversations too good to cut and too real to miss.
Hey, friends and fam. Welcome to the overflow here with Susan Thomas today, and we are just so excited to talk about what God has put on our hearts. And I have someone really special with me, pastor Crystal Sparks. She is a lead pastor at One Church with her husband, Brian, and it's a privilege. I call you my super duper theological friend.
Speaker 2:Aw. You're so kind.
Speaker 1:And I mean it. But truly, think that God is gonna honor our conversations today and our heart for overflow is just that the conversations we're having, our prayers that it'll overflow and bless somebody who's listening. So I just wanna dive right in. Just maybe tell people listening a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 2:So well, I mean, goodness. So I have two amazing kids.
Speaker 1:They are amazing.
Speaker 2:And I've been married to the love of my life for twenty four years. Mhmm. And he's amazing. I love him with my whole heart. And so so proud of my kids.
Speaker 2:They're both in college, so I know you get that I do. In that college life. I do. And so it's so fun. We planted our church eleven years ago, and God's just doing so much.
Speaker 2:We just finished our expansion at our Caddo campus. Wow. And so God's just doing a lot, and we're just grateful to be a part of all that he's doing. So yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah. Church people. That's for sure. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking about, you know, you and I talking today. We are church girls, but that hasn't always been either of our stories. No. And I'd love for you just to share a little bit because I think sometimes people don't realize they'll see leaders in a church. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And not everyone, but sometimes people will assume, oh, they're the ones that have got it all together. They're the ones that are, you know, they they're elevated to some space. And the reality is, I know my story, is I am a very broken person apart from Christ. He pulled me out of my darkest place and he changed my life, and I can't not tell everyone I know. Yes.
Speaker 1:And that's honestly the truth of how, you know, what why I do what I do. And I know you have a similar story.
Speaker 2:So just
Speaker 1:a little bit of your story would be just so powerful.
Speaker 2:You're so kind. I remember I actually remember when I met you in Arizona. Right? Were in Arizona. And we were sitting there talking, and you were like, tell me your story.
Speaker 2:And I told you, and you're like, that is amazing. Yeah. And I was like, well, everybody loves telling the story about the woman at the well. Nobody really loves being the woman at the well. And so Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was raised in a family, didn't know Jesus Yeah. Didn't know God. And my dad was addicted to drugs. Went to prison, like federal prison for that, and that was really hard. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so just growing up in a home that was physically and verbally abusive. Have two siblings, one of three. We're raised in Southern California, ended up moving to East Texas. And just because my parents bought into the lie that a lot of people still buy today of, like, if we'd move houses, if we change cities Yeah. All of our problems will stay there where we were and our life will get better.
Speaker 2:They follow. But addictions follow you, dysfunction follows you, and so that was what happened for us. And so fast forward in my life, my parents ended up getting a divorce, my mom was finally done. There was infidelity there, there was just so many layers of things. And I remember that was, like, the best time of my life because I finally wasn't scared to come home Wow.
Speaker 2:At night. Wow. And so with that, my life just was, like, spiraling out of control. And without knowing it, we repeat exactly what we know
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what I knew was dysfunction. And so I'm dating a guy who's a drug dealer, and I'm in a group of friends that are at that time, it was like ecstasy was the main drug, which there was a whole lot of bad with that sexually that was going around, all of that. And so that was quite prevalent. And so my friends were on drugs, and basically, it all culminated in one night. I we went to a club in Downtown Dallas.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I got drugged. Me and my best friend Mhmm. We woke up in a room completely naked.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I we're driving back into Sulphur Springs, Texas as the sun's rising on a Sunday morning. Mhmm. And I prayed a prayer and I was like, God, I don't even know if you're real.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:But if you are, could you help me? And I just knew, like, I knew where my life was going. I didn't need a prophecy. Like, I've it. I yes.
Speaker 2:I've seen it. Yes. And so I was very aware of what was happening. And so I went to my mom worked at a lumberyard. I went up there to see her.
Speaker 2:She designed kitchens for these new homes. And I went up there and I saw the most handsome man in wranglers and boots I'd ever seen in my life. And that was Brian Wade Sparks. And he asked me out. We went out that Friday night, and I just told him everything.
Speaker 2:And here he is, he's 21, he's a virgin, he didn't even know what weed smelled like. Wow. Truly, like, the most pure soul. And I'm telling him all the things I had done. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And he was like, okay. Well, you're gonna go to church. And if you're gonna talk to me, there's no more parties, no more things. And I really like the guy, so I go to church. Ended up giving my life to Jesus.
Speaker 2:What? And I'm wearing, like, club clothes in church because that's all I had. Yeah. And I think about all the time of, like, how would I respond if my son walked in with a girl? Wow.
Speaker 2:Like me? But his parents, they just loved me. They never asked me to change. So there I am, you know, getting transformed literally. Christ just came into my life and I was never the same.
Speaker 2:Wow. I was never the same. Wow. And so walked through a lot of hard things, you know, I'm first generation Christian. Yeah.
Speaker 2:My mom loves the Lord now. Sister gave her life to Jesus. My nieces, I've gotten to baptize. Oh. Two of the three of them.
Speaker 2:And God's just so good. But it was a lot of pain. Lot of pain. Lot of things that I still am not proud of. Thank God there wasn't cell phones back then.
Speaker 1:Oh, Oh, come on.
Speaker 2:Can we say that? Yes. Like, just praise God. There's some things I'm thankful that are just under the blood. Right.
Speaker 2:But God's just so faithful. So that's like where I came from. And so I came into church and I was just so hungry for God, so hungry for everything he is. And still to this day, our church just has this anointing for broken people feeling safe. And because I think brokenness knows brokenness.
Speaker 2:Yes. And Very true. And they feel safe when they come into our house. And so we've gotten to see so many people's lives change. And so for me, I I very much identify, you know, now I'm 25 removed, I very much identify with the person that is coming in and they are they love God, and they've been raised in the church.
Speaker 2:Like, I identify with that person, like, can have I I can walk with But I also still very much remember the person that's walking in for the first time. All of this is foreign. Like, they're literally giving God their last shot. And last night, they were doing things that were so awful, you know, that led them to that moment of showing up this Sunday. And so we have a saying at our church that people are hard and everybody needs a day one.
Speaker 2:And so I'm that's like my heart passion. And so that's why I do what I do. Yeah. And Beautiful. Well, and I
Speaker 1:think it is stunning how God over and over again, he takes the miserable. He takes the misery places, and he he you hear it all the time. Our misery is the ministry, but it's the truth. Yes. You're you're preaching and you're teaching and you're loving and you're leading out of a place where you yourself have been.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I know for me in my own story that I asked God, don't ever let me forget what you saved me from.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 1:It's not in condemnation. It's not in guilt and shame. That's all been nailed to the cross. Praise God. I mean, praise God.
Speaker 1:Don't even have to feel insecurity about it Yeah. But still can grieve the the the wrongness of that season. Yeah. But it just fuels us to lead somebody else broken. Like you said, somebody else who's hard or in that hard place to lead them.
Speaker 1:And that that's our call as a Christ follower. And Yeah. I truly believe just biblical word worldview, we're all broken. Yes. Apart from Christ, there's degrees to what that looks like and how we manifest our brokenness.
Speaker 1:Yes. But the depths of it is still the same dark origin. And so we're all in need of the savior, and I just am thankful for your ministry of drawn people to him left and right. Thank you. And, you know, along those lines, I think for me because it's like when you've been on the dark side call it the dark side.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But when you've lived that
Speaker 2:But actually.
Speaker 1:Be actually in your own different ways. It's like for me, I was like, I've got the T shirt. I've been there. I'm good. I've tasted both sides, and I choose Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yes. I don't wanna go back. God and part of the reason I don't wanna forget is because I don't wanna ever to go back. Yes. I don't wanna, you know, go that direction because of the price tag attached.
Speaker 1:And so with all that, part of the joy is telling other people God's way really is best. Like Yes. Not trying to be goody little two shoes Christian girl. It's like God is real. His way is right.
Speaker 1:Yes. Jesus is real. Yes. He changes everything.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you wanna shout it from the mountaintop. Yes. So I know for you, that's part of your passion. Talk for a minute about just the passion God's put on your heart to tell people.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're so kind. I think I just think heaven and hell is real. Right? And I think that most people, they really believe that God can't love somebody like them. Like nobody I think if we could just get people in a mindset that nobody wakes up and thinks, I wanna be addicted to this substance.
Speaker 2:Right. I wanna lose my marriage. I wanna wreck my job. I wanna drive all the people that love me away from nobody thinks that. It's what happens is is that we have these patterns.
Speaker 2:Right? And we we believe I remember even as a young child, I was in the backseat of my mom's car and we were driving through downtown on a Sunday morning. And we were very very poor growing up and we did not have money at all, like for real not money. And I remember watching these people walk into a church and they all were dressed so nice and they looked so happy. And I remember looking and thinking people like us don't do that.
Speaker 2:Because here we are with like not nice clothes and we don't have the shiny happy family, and my dad's abusive. Like, we we wouldn't be able to walk in anywhere Mhmm. With smiles like that. And I think most people that are living the life they are living, it's because they believe on the on the deepest level is like, this is what I deserve. This is all there is.
Speaker 2:And I think for us, like, I think we have a culture and society that's like shouting at darkness and telling it to stop being dark. But I think for us as believers, we need to tell the darkness there is light.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like, is light.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:good. And that Christ came for you. Yeah. And even when you look at the gospel of Luke, the gospel of Luke is basically the gospel for the broken. And Luke highlights that Christ came for women.
Speaker 2:It's a women's gospel. Like, most of the stories we know about women's lives being transformed is because of the book of Luke. But secondarily, he highlights the outcasts. And it's the ones nobody else wanted. It's the ones everybody else would look over.
Speaker 2:And that's who God comes for. And so I think for me, my heart, my passion is to see the people that Jesus would see. I tell my congregation all the time, I'm like, if Jesus were to come in today, you would be shocked on who he would walk up
Speaker 1:to.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because it's not who
Speaker 1:you think. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:He would go to the person that was the most broken, the person that everybody else overlooked, And, like, that's who our hearts are for. And so even serving in our parking lot a couple weeks ago, this amazing guy, his name is Colton. Love him. Like, God's doing so much in his life. And he sees me walking up to church, and he's like, pastor Crystal, I have to tell you, I'm six months today and I haven't smoked weed in six months.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, let's go, Colson. Let's go.
Speaker 1:I love that he told you. Yes. And he was
Speaker 2:so, like, lit up and they recently dedicated their son to the Lord. Mhmm. And God's wrecking him. But it's like creating spaces where people can have day one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like as he's going through and now he's in our community group called Holy Spirit and and God's just doing so much in his heart and life. But every person that's living in darkness, it's not because they wanna be there. Right. It's because on the deepest part of them, they don't believe that God could love somebody Right. Like them.
Speaker 2:Right. And so for me, every day, I'm like, at the end of this life, like, my shoes, my bags, my cars, my house Yeah. None of that's gonna matter. The only thing we can take is people. Right.
Speaker 2:And so my goal is to bring as many people with me as possible. And so my grandfather, I led him to the Lord on his deathbed. Oh. And he's there and his like, the doctors have told him, like, we don't think you're gonna make it much longer. He was he's an alcoholic, really wanted nothing to do with God his entire life.
Speaker 2:Like, we'd get really mad if God got brought up in a conversation. So I was always scared to witness to
Speaker 1:him. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'd never talked to him about Jesus. And so then I was like, okay. Like, he's about to go to glory. If he's gonna be mad at me, like, won't
Speaker 1:be mad long. Oh, goodness.
Speaker 2:And so I went into the hospital room and I was like, papa, I just I've got one question. Do you know Jesus? And, like, I just lay out what Jesus did. And he's got tears in his eyes and he looks at me and he said, I thought you'd never ask. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2:So there in the room, I lead him to Christ. He prays the sinner's prayer. And I think that question rings in my mind. Forever. Forever.
Speaker 2:For you'll never not hear that. Forever. The barista at Starbucks, she's saying, I thought you'd never ask. The person that you're overlooking on the street corner, they're saying, I thought you'd never ask. Because in the core of them, the core of them is God can't love somebody like me.
Speaker 2:You know, fast forward, I've I've led my cousin to the Lord. I've I've, like, seen so many God do so many things. And all of them all come down to this is that it's this deep longing to know, does God choose me? Yeah. Does God choose me?
Speaker 2:Nobody walks in darkness because they love darkness. No. They love in darkness because they don't believe there can be light.
Speaker 1:That's so
Speaker 2:powerful. That's that's like a deep conviction of mine. It, like, drives me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It drives me in everything I do. I always think it's somebody's son. It's somebody's daughter. It's somebody's baby. It's like, it matters.
Speaker 2:It just matters. Every person matters. Oh. And so
Speaker 1:That moment with your grandfather, I I mean, it's mind blowing to me. I I would say, what would you say to the person who who would say, I struggle to share my faith. I love Jesus and I will answer someone or tell someone, but I struggle. Yeah. What would you tell them?
Speaker 2:I think it just starts with seeing someone. Mhmm. Like, seeing them. You know? Just seeing right where they're at.
Speaker 2:I was at a restaurant one time and it was a nice restaurant, beautiful restaurant. We were there for our anniversary or something like that. We were celebrating something and I went to the bathroom and this girl was crying. And it's moving slow enough that you can meet her with curiosity.
Speaker 1:I love how you said that. Meet her with curiosity. Yes. Not so busy, not so involved in your whatever's happening in your moment that you actually see the person Yes. That maybe you thought think is not even in my moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you just meet her with curiosity. Like, not with judgment. Yeah. With curiosity.
Speaker 2:Like, are you okay? Like, what's happening? And she's just bawling. It ends up I lead this girl to Christ in a bathroom. My husband's sitting at a table by himself.
Speaker 2:And I finally come out and he was like, what happened? Why were you gone so long? And I said, I let a girl to Jesus. He said, I knew you were probably doing something like that. He was like, amazing.
Speaker 2:But I think to the person I wanna tell you, like, you don't have to know everything. I think we the biggest lie that the enemy tells us is that we have to know every theological response.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And you think about the woman at the well, all she had was her story. Come see a man who just told me everything.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:That's it. She couldn't she couldn't explain the virgin birth. She didn't she wasn't able to explain how he was born and the Magi got there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, didn't explain any of
Speaker 1:that. Right.
Speaker 2:She's just like, come see a man that changed me. And I think for us, I think just whatever you're at, wherever you're at, like slow down, move slowly, notice the person that's checking you out at Target. Notice the people in your world and, like, move move slow enough to let them feel seen and known. And when people feel seen, you're gonna be amazed at how much their hearts just open to you. And you're able just to, like, hear what the spirit of the Lord is saying in that moment, invite God into the situation.
Speaker 2:And I mean, so many stories I've had through the years of just leading people, and it just starts with, like, small steps. Yeah. You know? So maybe you're not there, like but start small.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Start by just speaking to them. Yeah. Like, just talking to them. Yeah. And you'll see how you'll start getting more and more bold in your faith, but people are hungry for the light you have.
Speaker 2:So good. They really are. They want to know that there's a God in heaven who loves them and sees them. And and when we do that, man, I'm telling you, there's not churches big enough. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's just not. Wow. Like, because there's that's what people are staying home. Every Sunday, people are staying home not because they want to be home. They're staying home because they feel like God doesn't see them.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That it doesn't matter, that they don't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like for us, like, have
Speaker 1:the best message In the whole world.
Speaker 2:In the whole world. So, yeah, to the person that's, like, wrestling with it Yeah. Just step out. Out.
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 2:Just step out. And the way you step out is just by seeing them. Yeah. Seeing them, it goes down to imago dei. Like, if we believe that people are in God's image, the homeless person isn't an eyesore.
Speaker 2:They're a person they're they're a bearer of the image of God. Mhmm. Mhmm. So slow down. Yeah.
Speaker 2:See them. Really see them. Yeah. Like, that's somebody's baby.
Speaker 1:That's just so good. That's so good. I think that phrase it'll stick with me. I think that phrase of just slow down and see people. Yes.
Speaker 1:And and I think if we are fixated on, okay, God, I my day today, yes, I have my plans. We make our plans, but, Lord, you really do direct our steps.
Speaker 2:Like you
Speaker 1:said that, and you really do. Mhmm. And so, God, as you direct my steps today, I wanna have my eyes open for the assignment that I may not have been expected. Yeah. I was expecting.
Speaker 1:It's like the pop quiz. Right? But because I'm so fixated on what you have for me, I wanna see it when it comes, and I can't do that if I don't have a heart to see people
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And to slow down and to see them. So good. Thank you for that. That's so good. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I wanna talk for a minute, and I I've been thinking about this, about God's design, which is, like, the most ginormous topic in the world because he designed everything. Yeah. But when I think about it, particularly in the area of just worldview, I've been thinking about this. I wanna actually talk a little bit about here we go. Curveball.
Speaker 1:Feminist movement. And here's why. Right?
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's go. And this is for every woman listening, but this is for every man. This is a a cultural worldview that I think is so important. And the reason that I wanna talk about it is because it goes back to what you said earlier.
Speaker 1:The darkness we we sometimes cry out like, dark. Don't be dark. Mhmm. But what we miss and don't understand is there's an agenda. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And John ten ten's super clear about it. There's two agendas for every person's life. Yep. There's the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy. And there's a God, Jesus, who says to us, I've come to give you life.
Speaker 1:And not just to scrape by kinda life, but life abundant. Abundant. Those are the two agendas. Yes. And so to say dark, don't be dark isn't possible because it is an entity that is moving toward us with a strategy and a plan.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so in light of that, I truly believe there is such an attack on the family. Yes. Such an attack on the person, the Imagideo, as you said, the image of God Yes. Seeking to destroy and devour it.
Speaker 1:And I think that feminism is something that people don't necessarily think a lot about. Yeah. But it's impacted so much. And so I wanna just talk about it. As I was kinda doing I mean, we're talking bare bones research.
Speaker 1:I know you said earlier we were conversing. You said you have a friend who's, like, really delved into this. Yes. But I do know, I believe it's August 1920 in America, that's when, if you will, the first wave of the feminist movement here hit. There's waves of it.
Speaker 1:There's waves, wave one, wave two, wave three. And the wave one, 1920 is when women had the right to legally write the right to vote. Yeah. Which is a great thing. Yes.
Speaker 1:That's a great thing. But the waves that came after that, not so great.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I think the overarching thought, and then I wanna just hear you go, is that culture, even a lost culture, looked at what was happening to women. Because there's been oppression for women, honestly, since genesis three, the curse happened. Yeah. There's been oppression. There's been abuse.
Speaker 1:There's been a devaluing of women Yes. Throughout history. Yes. And culture knew that. Culture saw that.
Speaker 1:There were women and people who rose up and said, this isn't right. Yes. But anytime we try to attack the darkness without god who is the light. Yeah. It's only a matter of time till it implodes, until it breaks bad, until it gets twisted.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's exactly what's happened. Was something that began maybe with good intention Mhmm. Has grown really dark. So I'd love your thoughts, and I have some thoughts too.
Speaker 1:But I'd love just your thoughts on what it's done to our lives, to women, to men, to the family.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think I mean, there's a part of the feminist movement which was good. Very. Right? Like, hey.
Speaker 2:There's a seat at the table for you. Like, you're you matter. Yes. Like, we see you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I think that's good. But what moved from there is that we don't need men. Yes. That we don't need men, the devaluing of men. Right.
Speaker 2:And so actually, we're pendulum swinging on the other extreme now where men were like, we don't need women. Mhmm. And we fought so hard to say, we have a place. Yeah. And then now we're on the other side of we don't need men.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, what are we doing, guys? Like Yeah. Coming back to center. And then even you saying like about the nuclear family. So when you think about the book of Genesis
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And really the old testament, all the way until we get to the wisdom literature, it's all a familial book. It's all about family. Like, think about how many chapters in that portion of scripture Yeah. Go from Genesis all the way to Job. How many chapters are taken up with just lineage of family?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Family. Family. Family. Like, so that tells us so repetition, they teach you this in school when you're studying theology. Repetition shows you the author's values and intent.
Speaker 2:Their values and their intent for for writing. Like, their concerns, the things that they're going. So what do you think God values? Family. He takes a long time to talk about family.
Speaker 2:He takes a long time to list out every in numbers, every single family. No family was left unturned. Well, for every family, we have to have a mother and a father. Yeah. Now this is basic knowledge that's not so basic anymore.
Speaker 1:Not so basic anymore. So mommy and daddy
Speaker 2:come together to have a baby. Right. And so this establishment of family is how God was gonna change the earth. Mhmm. So even whenever whenever God was gonna do something great, birth a nation Israel, what does he do?
Speaker 2:He starts with a family. He starts with a man, Abraham, and a woman, Sarah.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:He then tries to look outside of that family. We've got Hagar Right. Which introduces all the problems that we have. Because when we break apart the nuclear family, we're still paying the price for that decision that Abraham made. And so when God wanted to change the world through a nation, to have a nation, he started with a family.
Speaker 2:Think about Jesus. When Jesus is gonna come on scene and God wants to bring the redeemer for the entire world, he could have just brought Jesus down. Yeah. He chose a family. Mary and Joseph.
Speaker 2:And he establishes a family. God always works through family. Even when you read in the book of Acts, you see the jailer that gets saved. Yeah. And what happens in that moment?
Speaker 2:His entire family gets saved. And then when you read through church tradition, all that happened from that family salvation, it's mind blowing. Yeah. Even when you think about, there's, a I did a whole teaching around John Mark's mom, and I'm obsessed with John Mark's mom. And John Mark is the one that writes the book of Mark.
Speaker 2:And through it, they believe that John Mark, like, he has this touch with the gospel because John Mark's mom is the
Speaker 1:one
Speaker 2:who provides the place for the last supper. Wow. And the place of the last supper we know as spirit filled believers is Acts chapter two where the holy spirit comes. The church's birth is in John Mark's mom's
Speaker 1:Goodness. House. Can you imagine? Isn't that crazy? Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:But again, God's about to birth a church. And what does he do? He moves a family. He talks to a family. He gets a woman to say, here's my table.
Speaker 2:You can use it. Here's this space. I can make it beautiful for God to come and move. And that's where the church comes out of. Again, pointing back to the family, pointing back to the home.
Speaker 2:So when we when we as a society start moving away from that Yeah. And now women are more aspiring to build a career than to be a mother
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we believe that our exist our total value is outside of the home. It's again, we're just like Abraham. We're seeking to fulfill what God wants to do outside Yeah. Of that family unit. Right.
Speaker 2:Where truly, like, what we're called to do is to raise amazing kids
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That bring light to the world. That is our ultimate purpose.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Anything else we do from that this podcast is just bonus. Bonus. It's bonus.
Speaker 1:A 100%.
Speaker 2:The business, the woman that is the corporate executive, great. I think that's fantastic. Yes. You're an author, you're a writer, whatever you're doing. I mean, name it.
Speaker 2:Like, you're an MLM girl. Get on you. Sell those oils, sis. Like, whatever it is. But those are the outflow
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Of the home. Yes. And when we keep it that this is a family book, think about Paul. So Paul always has in every epistle, he has a welcome, then he has he lays out orthodoxy. So he's gonna lay out doctrine to the church of what we believe.
Speaker 2:What we believe about Christ, what we believe about prayer, he's gonna lay out the things. Then he goes into orthopraxy. So the end of every epistle is gonna be how do we practically live this out? In his orthopraxy, he most oftentimes spends the longest time talking about family. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because what we believe should overflow. The overflow, how I practice what I believe about Christ. What I how I practice how I believe about the resurrection. Is this making sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's so good.
Speaker 2:All of those things, the overflow is my family. Yeah. But we are looking for significance outside of that family realm when really, like, husbands, wives, this is the main thing. Yeah. Like, actually is Yeah.
Speaker 2:The main thing.
Speaker 1:I know. So good. So powerful. And as you as you give us honestly the timeline throughout the bible of the family, it all points back to there's a designer and we're not it. There's a creator and we didn't create.
Speaker 1:He's the creator. We're his creation. And the very first structure that he created was family. It was Adam and Eve, and we know how things broke bad in Genesis three and what happened to their children, Cain and Abel. Terrible.
Speaker 1:I just believe with all my heart, when you understand patterns and you begin to look at patterns in scripture, patterns in people, patterns in our world, a lot of times we'll see the same lying demons, the same darkness Yeah. That was there thousands of years ago repackaged into modern day skin, and it's happening again. It's not new. And so I just I believe that there's such a wealth there of what you're sharing. And when it comes to feminism, you know, the definition of it's just it's a it's a movement for equality.
Speaker 1:Yes. Equality for women and in society and political realms in every avenue in the workplace that they're that's its original Mhmm. You know, mantra. But then somewhere in there, it began to break bad and to become so much more. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that initial, which was so good Mhmm. I mean, I can't believe 1920 is when we could legally vote. Like, that kind blows my mind. Oh, it's so sad. And just it's honestly that seems more recent than I would even think cause we can imagine that today.
Speaker 1:100%.
Speaker 2:Right? Like, the measure of feminism that's great Yes. Is that I can. Crystal Sparks can, and she does. Like, her words are out there.
Speaker 2:Like, I have that right. And what a gift that is. Like, so there's a measure of that that is so beautiful. And, like, there's things that you read through history that you're like, it's so sad. But I can't equate that my submission to my husband is an oppression Right.
Speaker 2:That those women were feeling. It's not the same.
Speaker 1:It's not the same.
Speaker 2:It's a beautiful it's a biblical submission. It's an honoring. It's not a silencing. It's actually it makes our voice stronger. It makes it more beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. My submission to Brian Sparks doesn't make me less. It makes me greater. Like, he actually builds me up. And but what culture society says now, it's like, I'm being weak Mhmm.
Speaker 2:By needing him or by honoring him. But I'm like, no. I still believe that the man is the priest of the home. Right. Like, we should honor him as such.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And but this happened even the breakdown of the nuclear family, how men are viewed happened in World War two. And in World War two, when men went off to war, they were gone and emotionalism entered into the church. And it stopped being intellectual based where they were learning. Wow.
Speaker 2:And these men came home from war, and they didn't know what to do with these hyper emotional churches.
Speaker 1:Environments. Yes. And so
Speaker 2:they didn't know what to do with it. So then men from that point forward, the male participation in the church started to decline. And then from that, women started being more involved. Even on most churches serve teams, more women are involved than men because we were they felt like there's no place for you here. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're gonna lead. We're gonna do again, I'm I'm a woman pastor. I think women should lead. Yeah. But I think we should also create space for the men Yes.
Speaker 2:In our community
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:To feel like you're welcomed here, you're loved here. Yeah. And so
Speaker 1:Well, it's a tragedy when we look at it as either or. When God says no, both and. Yes. You know? And earlier you said one of the realities of that feminist movement that sadly as it began to break bad, which it has and which it does, without God at the helm, things always break bad.
Speaker 1:Always. But you said, you know, it's it's either men or women. It's men versus women. It's we don't need I don't need a man. And the other wave that it began to introduce is not only I don't need a man, but it is I can be a man.
Speaker 1:Yes. I I'm there's no difference between me and a man. And not understanding that was God knit us together. He knit us together and created us as equals, but not the same. Not the individually created, uniquely designed.
Speaker 1:And anytime society treat tries to pit either or against each other, elevate one and demean the other, then we're off balance. So whether it's emotionalism after those wars, whatever it looks like, whether it's oppression of women and not having those voices, both of them are so deeply broken. And what I found so interesting is some studies say that there was wave one, wave two, wave three of this feminist agenda, which is our current where we are today, really ushered in the confusion of gender Of gender. Gender fluidity Oh, yeah. Transgenderism ideology.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And it it it makes sense because if we're writing the rules, if we're defining Mhmm. Who we are, whether we're a woman or a man, then we can we can be whatever we want to be. Exactly. And so many lives are being destroyed in the process.
Speaker 2:Well, because truth is subjective. Right. Because we've removed God. Right. So I can be and I can say whatever I want to because it's my truth.
Speaker 2:Right. But even like the gender inclusion, you gotta take the church isn't guilt free of this. So one of like my biggest grinding points. So this like, I it it makes me frustrated. This may be your favorite, and that's fine.
Speaker 2:If it's your favorite, that's okay. The NIV bible. The NIV bible stripped gender from it because it wanted it to be more inclusive. So it doesn't say Jesus will make you fishers of men. It says he'll make you fishers of people.
Speaker 2:Because we don't wanna call it mankind. Yeah. We wanna call it humankind. And so remember when Target took genders off of bathrooms and there was all these people protesting? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it made me laugh because people were sharing scriptures on Instagram and on Facebook, and they're sharing NIV scriptures. And I'm like, you're reading a gender neutral bible. Oh, wow. And without knowing it, what is it doing? It is it is rewiring our brain.
Speaker 2:It they took that out, and I just feel like as as the church, we have to, like, hold the line. And at a certain point, I'm like, no. It was written at women weren't able to read. Yeah. It was written to a male audience.
Speaker 2:Right. That's just the facts. Right. And I don't feel oppressed by that. It's just the truth.
Speaker 2:History. It's history. It's history. And so I'm reading something that, yeah, a male wrote it and he was writing assuming the audience would be male. Right.
Speaker 2:And so a lot of the terms are male in nature. I'm not offended by that. My job is to also be able to rightly apply that to my own life. But when I'm reading something that's gender inclusive, then what it's doing is as I'm a young child reading that NIV bible
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm sitting at home, it's subconsciously telling me gender doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:That's powerful thought. That's powerful of thought.
Speaker 2:My biggest Wow. Wow. Just I'm like, I there's not there's not a lot of hills I'm gonna die on. Yeah. But that's one of them that I'm like, no.
Speaker 2:This is this is one that I like really hold the line on. Yeah. And so for me, I'm like, we we can't let it in our doors because we're we're saying we don't want it out there
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But we're holding it in our hands.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a slippery slope. There's no doubt about it. And I think when I think about the bible, you know, you have to understand it in the context of what was happening at the time. I mean, so much of it historically
Speaker 2:Yeah. Historically racism's so important.
Speaker 1:Oh, have to. And the reality, it was written to men because women couldn't read it. Yes. Was God's heart just for the men? No.
Speaker 1:If anyone showed us that, it was Jesus. I mean, he defied his culture. Yeah. You know, entrusting women to go and tell the first good news. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Go tell
Speaker 2:the truth. Like, there's so many things. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's not it.
Speaker 2:It's just where we were at at the time. Yeah. And so I I think I'm okay to acknowledge where something was
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And still see the beauty and in it Yes.
Speaker 1:And through it.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And I I just truly believe that as you look at that big picture as a whole, anytime, whatever form Mhmm. Where we try to rewrite what God has written
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That the family will begin to suffer. And it makes complete sense, especially as you so beautifully laid it out, that it was the agenda of God from start to finish. I mean, even him.
Speaker 2:Literally.
Speaker 1:God the father, God the son, and they're different than us, but it's all that language that God chooses to use to help us understand him and we being made in his image.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I think people just what I would say to the person listening is discover God's design for your family. Yes. And don't just take the cultural things happening around you Yes. And dismissing them as either, ain't no big deal. I don't really that doesn't impact me.
Speaker 1:Or just buying it Yes. And receiving it in ways where you're living in a in a in a mentality. I'll speak to our young adults for a moment. You're living in a mentality, maybe the young woman or the young man, and you're just buying the lie as a young woman. Hey.
Speaker 1:Family's not that important. It can wait. Yeah. You can put it off. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just live your life. You need to go chase a career. You need to there's more I guess what I'm saying is there's more important things Yeah. Than being married, having children. And so go live your life.
Speaker 1:Do what you wanna do. And meanwhile, we know you're gonna wanna have sex, so take precautions for that. Do what you have to do regarding that so you can keep pursuing your other goals. So sad. And then we wind up at 35, 40 years old, and there's this there's this sense of loss on the inside or desire.
Speaker 1:And can God redeem that? 100%. If you're listening right now, wherever you are, you trust God with your story. He can write your story Yes. More beautifully than you ever could have.
Speaker 1:Yes. But so many people early on are believing that lie, then you get to that place and think, now I'll start a family when I'm 35 or when I'm 40. Well, it's not that easy. No. And even biology, God has written it into our biology.
Speaker 1:There's a dip that happens in our fertility as a woman starting around age 35. It's significant. Yes. God can do all things. Yes.
Speaker 1:But we've bought a lie. Yeah. And it's just taking us to a place of great loss. And like you said earlier, does that mean that as women, we can't have jobs outside the home? And you so rightly said, of course not.
Speaker 1:We can have jobs outside the home, but I love going to the ultimate woman that we love her, and sometimes we hate her, but we don't hate because I don't say hate my family. But Proverbs 31 girl. Yeah. That girl, she was slaying it. She was like a real estate boss.
Speaker 1:The girl was an entrepreneur. She was an interior designer. I mean, the different things that that woman did
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But her family did not suffer.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Her role as a wife did not suffer. She kept that as her priority.
Speaker 2:Okay. So think about Proverbs. Yeah. The entire book of Proverbs is written in this way. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Is that there is an unwise woman Mhmm. And it depicts her as the adulterous woman.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there's the wise woman. Mhmm. And it's you're gonna see these contrasts of the two. Yeah. And all of Proverbs is written to get you to the Proverbs 31 woman.
Speaker 2:And so basically because the book of Proverbs is a book of wisdom. So Proverbs 31 ends basically telling us this, that the best thing you can do is to find the wisest woman you can find Yeah. And to marry her. Now think about, I think, I believe, it's my opinion, that the Proverbs 31 woman is Ruth. So this is in the lineage of David and Solomon, and everything that we see depicted in this Proverbs 31 woman It would fit her.
Speaker 2:Is Ruth. And you can literally read through the book of Ruth and you can parallel every single Wow. Verse with her. Wow. And basically saying the strength because when God was getting ready to get a king, he found a woman, Ruth, to establish a family Mhmm.
Speaker 2:With Boaz after her brokenness because she's a widow. Yeah. She's gone through loss, she's gone through heartache, gone through disappointment. Yeah. God gives her a fresh start and he does it through a family.
Speaker 2:And he gets her with Boaz and she the book of Ruth ends with Naomi holding that baby, which then would be the lineage of David because God's getting ready for a king. But it's not just about David because he's thinking about a messiah. Yes. And he needs a bloodline. But how does he do it?
Speaker 2:Through a woman, Ruth. And all of this, I believe, here Solomon is and at the end of his life, which Proverbs 31 is written by Lemuel, and they don't even know who that is. They think it was a pseudonym. And so some on scholarship say that it was Solomon for sure, I believe it was. He was just writing under a pseudonym at this point, but you can parallel every single thing.
Speaker 2:But you think about Solomon, here he is, the man who had 700 concubines, and he's looking back over his life, and he's like, the wisdom that I would have is this. Find a woman like my great great grandmother. Wow. Find her. Ugh.
Speaker 2:Marry her. And she's a woman of excellence, not just in her home, but she's known outside the city gate. She's like doing the things, weaving all the clothes, making all the food, but her heart notice how the movement of the text goes because everything first starts in her home. And as her home is good, it goes to her maidservants. As her maidservants are good, it moves outside to the merchant ships.
Speaker 2:It keeps going out out out. But everything in Proverbs 31, it first begins in the home, and then you see the ripples go outward.
Speaker 1:So good.
Speaker 2:And so for us, we wanna move outward, and we wanna neglect the inward. And this actually like, my kids set the pace of the ministry. My kids set the pace of my works flow. Mhmm. And when they were needing me more, I pulled back because I only have eighteen years to be their mom.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Like, I only have eighteen years. Mhmm. Like, that's it. I gotta make it count.
Speaker 2:Now they're both, like, they're both graduated from high school. We're in a different season. Right. But my impact, my ripple outward was only as big as this could be and could sustain. Right.
Speaker 2:So and that's what we see is Ruth is also painting out to us in Proverbs 31 as he's painting this, is letting us know that the strength of all that she did came from here.
Speaker 1:Yes. That's It came so
Speaker 2:from here. And it's so beautiful. I mean, when you put the two together, you can unsee it. I think you can. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that so much. That's a beautiful perspective. I love that. And I think, again, just for the person listening, you know, what I'd want to leave them with is just encouragement
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:For their family. Yes. You know, we've talked about family. We've talked about some things that we believe have tried to rob the family and the importance that the family is to God.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But someone today, man, you're struggling, and it could be a woman that's you're juggling a million hats. You do work outside the home, which you and I both have. Yes. I I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It could be her. It could be that husband that there's just angst in your marriage or there's a rub or there's so many scenarios. Yeah. But I'd love for you just to speak encouragement to the person listening wherever they are in their age or stage of family. Yes.
Speaker 1:Just encouragement for where they are.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, for the single guy that you're dating, the wisest thing you can do is to find the wisest woman you can find that's so in love with Jesus, and she's exemplifying what it is to be that Proverbs thirty one one. Find her. Marry her. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like, she's the one. Mhmm. For the guy that's, like, struggling, you know, his wife is they're going through a difficult time. The wisest thing you can do is to cover her in prayer, cover her with love Mhmm. And believe God for the best.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You know? And then for the woman listening and you're like, who am I in this culture Yeah. That's defining, be really careful who you're following on social media. That's good.
Speaker 2:They're shaping it before you before your eyes, what you're seeing, those images that are coming up, they're shaping how you see a husband and wife interact together, how a mom is supposed to mother.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Be really careful the accounts you're following, the shows that you're watching. Okay. And I would just say to the woman that you're like, man, I I'm so passionate about this. Like, I love my family. Post it.
Speaker 2:Like, give yourself permission. The world needs a window into your home. Yeah. Like, open your window. Let them see what's happening.
Speaker 2:Like, we need more women that love being mothers and wives. Yes. Like, literally. And so celebrate those things. Like, let the world see that you love this.
Speaker 2:And I think that the world we've got enough stories of people that resent their marriage, resent their kids. We need more Christians saying, actually, this is wonderful. Like, married life is the best side. Yeah. Like, being a mom is the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, we need more of that. Yeah. And so giving them permission to do that. And so wherever you're listening to this, I would just challenge you, like, go all in, like, start reading some things.
Speaker 2:Start being like, okay, God. I want your definition. Not the world's definition. I want your definition of what does it look like to be a mom and a wife in this day and landscape that we're in.
Speaker 1:So good. Thank you. The richness that God gave us through you, we just appreciate your voice.
Speaker 2:You're
Speaker 1:so so much. Pray blessings on your incredible ministry and your husband's ministry. Amen. And so we are so thankful you tuned in, and we just look forward to connecting again on The Overflow.