E348: Nick Fialka's Unconventional Path and Interview Secrets

Not every pilot's journey starts with dreams of flight—some begin with a challenge and a bottle of Eagle Rare bourbon.

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Fialka, captain at a major airline, host of the Ready for Pushback podcast, and interview coach at Spitfire Elite. Nick's path to the cockpit is anything but conventional. From attending The Citadel (not exactly known for churning out pilots) to flying helicopters in the Navy, then leaving it all to build a successful RV park in Florida—Nick thought the airlines weren't in his future.

That changed when a retired Delta captain rolled into his RV park with a $700,000 rig and convinced him over whiskey that he belonged at 35,000 feet.

We dive deep into what it really takes to land a job at a major airline in today's market. Nick pulls back the curtain on the interview process, sharing the mistakes that sink applications before they're even read, the logbook disasters that cost pilots their dream jobs, and why spending $600 on interview prep for a $22 million career is the easiest decision you'll ever make.

We also tackle the reality of aviation's boom-and-bust cycles, what the 2026 hiring landscape looks like, and why even the most senior pilots need to keep one eye on their next move. Whether you're building hours at a regional, prepping for your first major airline interview, or just trying to figure out if this career is right for you—this conversation is packed with real talk and actionable advice.

Plus, Nick shares why leading with empathy beats canned answers every time, and how your attitude might matter more than your flight time.

What is Pilot to Pilot?

Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.

Episode 348 of the pilot the
Pilot Podcast takes off now.

The Pilot the Pilot Podcast is
brought to you by Ground School from

the Finer Points, the
indispensable training app for new

and experienced pilots.

Visit learn the finer
points.comjustin to save 10% off

your first year, fly with
Garmin Avionics.

Then grab your mobile device
and make the Garmin Pilot app your

cockpit companion.

Get advanced functions you'll
use before, during and after every

flight, including updating
your aircraft's databases and logging

engine data Plan File Fly Log
with Garmin Pilot all pilots need

the big weather picture and I
use Sirius XM Aviation to check the

fronts, airmets, segments,
turbulence, pireps and more while

I'm pre flighting and in route.

All to give my passengers and
me the most comfortable flight possible.

And now with the latest offer
from SiriusXM, there's never been

a better time to upgrade your
next flight with the Garmin GDL52

portable receiver to bring
Sirius XM and ADS B weather plus

traffic into your cockpit.

Hey, my name is Nick Fialka.

I am a captain at a major
airline flying the 757 and 767.

I run the Ready for Pushback
podcast and I'm a coach at Spitfire

Elite Interview Consulting AV Nation.

What is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot
to Pilot podcast.

My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.

Today we're interviewing Nick
from the Ready for Pushback podcast.

He's also a Spitfire Elite
interview coach and a major airline

pilot pilot.

We talk about his journey from
becoming someone who thought he couldn't

be a pilot at all, to going to
the Citadel, which is not known for

training pilots, to becoming
now a major airline pilot and a couple

of stops in between.

He owned an RV park, which is
fascinating and cool, and it took

a bottle of whiskey from a
retired Delta captain for him to

realize he could be an airline pilot.

It was a really fun talk.

We get into the weeds, we dive
deep about airline interviews, what

you should do, what you
shouldn't do, why you should use

Spitfire, what we talk a lot
about it.

So if you want a job, if
you're looking for the regional job,

you're looking to get hired in
netjets or a major.

Listen to this podcast.

Check it out.

We talk very much about what
he thinks hiring is going to look

like, what it takes to get
hired, some key tips on what you

should do to nail your
interview, and if you haven't got

the interview, you got to know.

He also talks about what you
should do as well.

AV Nation, as you know, the
magazine has been released.

It has.

Unbelievable.

Thank you so much everyone
that's ordered.

I truly, truly appreciate it.

I just did an update on
Instagram about shipping.

There was a lot of
miscommunication and I was told so

many things about shipping and
it just hasn't come true.

So what I asked was for them
to ship me all the magazines and

I will be doing all the
shipping myself.

They did promise me they
shipped out the first 100 orders

that we had.

So if you have an order in and
you're one of the first 100, you

should be getting it soon.

They gave me no tracking on
that, but I promise you it's worth

the wait.

And I truly, truly apologize
that it's taking this long.

I truly, I wanted this to be
were delivered on Christmas, truly.

That's what my goal was and
just didn't come to.

But the magazine is unbelievable.

When you hold it in your hand.

I'm going to hold it up right
now, but when you hold it up, you

can't see this, but I'm
holding it.

And it is truly a coffee table book.

It is something that we worked
very hard on and is amazing, has

great stories and we're
currently planning the second issue

right now we're in the
beginning stages.

So it is a quarterly magazine
and if you think you are a good writer,

just go ahead and hit me up
and you want to write something.

We're always looking for
suggestions or an awesome story to

talk about.

So AV Nation, thank you so much.

You can go to pilot, the pilot
HQ.com backslash mag to check out

the magazine today.

And it is truly amazing.

So please, please go check it out.

Aviation.

That's all I got for you right now.

Without any further ado,
here's Nick from the Ready for Push

podcast.

Nick, what's going on man?

Welcome to the Pilot.

The Pilot podcast.

Justin, I'm in your presence.

I can't believe it.

Thanks for having me on, my man.

Yeah, absolutely.

We were talking off air about
just this like really weird kind,

you know, you're like one to
two people away from everyone in

the world, whatever.

You're six people away.

Separation of whatever.

However the statement is.

But I was doing my taxes, I
was signing my paperwork.

The guy's like, oh wait, you
do an aviation podcast?

I was like, yeah man, I do.

Like, you want to be a pilot?

He's like, no, not at all.

But my brother in law is also
doing a podcast.

I was like, what?

What Are the chances.

And he's like, ready for pushback.

I was like, yeah, I've heard
of ready for pushback.

And he's like, oh, cool,
that's awesome.

But then haven't heard, like,
we didn't connect or anything like

that.

And then what?

It's been a year.

Get an email from you.

It's like, all right, cool.

Let's do a podcast, man.

Let's link up.

Yeah, I thought it was.

It was absolutely hilarious when.

When he told me that and then
showed me all your taxes.

That was right.

You're like, you make that
much money?

It's like, dang.

No, it's like, dang, I'm doing
better than Justin.

Good.

Let's go.

All right.

Yeah.

No, it's a.

It's a small world.

I mean, we always talk about
how aviation is a small world, and

that kind of goes into kind of
coaching and getting your job right.

Like, you want to make sure
you're in your time building and

your cfi, whatever it is.

You want to make sure you have
a good attitude, because people remember

that.

But it is such a small world
in aviation.

You never know.

Like, if I was a jerk to that
guy, you might never wanted to reach

out to me to be on my podcast
or ask me to come on your podcast.

So there we go.

I think that that is one of
the points I really try to drive

home to people especially that
are going through the process of

becoming a professional pilot
as they're going through their flight

training and their cfi.

Like today's CFI is going to be.

Could be junior to their
student at an airline.

So always be to your people.

Always be a positive
influence, because all of that, it

just.

It just weirdly follows you
the entire time.

And even though each airline
has, you know, each major has like

17,000, 18,000 pilots.

Yeah.

It just is so small and it's
so wild when things come back around

and.

And so you just.

You always got to be on.

You always got to be the
person your mom thinks you are.

I know.

And it's funny because when
you talk about that is when I was

flying single pilot freight,
my chief pilot there, eventually

when I moved on the net jets I
had, I was like, dude, you got to

come here.

I love it, I love it, I love it.

And then a couple months
later, he applies and that just gets

hired too.

And it's like, ha, I'm senior
junior now.

It's like, if we were fly
together, good thing you were cool

and nice and weren't kind of A
jerk chief pilot.

But it's all good.

But it's just funny how that
works, right?

You never think in the moment
like, hey, my chief pilot could have

the potential to be junior to
me at my next job or at my final

job or whatever.

Even your first officer be
like, hey, dude, gear up.

It's like, what?

It's true.

You always, you always have to.

Your, your reputation will
precede you everywhere you go.

I mean, I've had people that
have, I have people that have been

on interview teams that have
interviewed a person that had been

negative to them in their past.

And that was an effect of them
not getting a job offer because they

had an.

And they, they would call me
afterwards and like, man, I, I made

this mistake years ago and
this came back to haunt me.

That's tricky, man.

Well, I mean, even like.

So you said you work for
Spitfire, you help coach.

I'm sure interviews or
companies can tell when they are

trained by Spitfire, when they
are trained by Cage Marshall, when

they are trained by whatever
they use.

Because I'm sure they all have
the way that they train them.

And they can be like, hey,
dude, we're actually interviewing

this person.

You flew here, you flew there.

Do you know them?

It's like, oh, yeah, he was great.

He was awesome.

He, this is what he said, that
he was very open about everything.

Wasn't shady at all.

Like, I'm sure that happens.

So it's just, you really got
to make sure you're on top of everything.

Yeah, you do.

And it is true when people,
when people interview, they, they

do have an indelible mark from
the organization that they use to

do interview prep.

And that's, that's what I do
love about what we do at Spitfire

is the, the way we don't, we
don't teach you what to say, we teach

you to understand who you are.

And if you know that, it
doesn't matter what the question

is because you can articulate
yourself clearly and empathetically

and, and put all the points on
the board because every question

you get, you're graded, you're.

There's, there's a point scale
that they give you 1 to 5, 1 to 10,

what, however they want to do it.

And at the end of the day,
they add up all your points, put

it together and have a
conversation, decide whether or not

you're going to have that job.

Yeah, I remember when I was at
my airline that I got hired at, I

was sitting there, you know,
you do the interview, they're like,

oh, this Is awesome.

This is great.

And then they go away, and
it's like, oh, that's when you start

getting nervous.

Like, what's gonna happen next?

You know, they have you all
line up, they take one group out,

and then you still sit there
and you're like, well, was that the

hired group?

Is that not the hired group?

I almost think they enjoy it a
little bit just to kind of play with

your emotions and see.

I feel like they're watching
from the sky from, like, one last

vantage point to see how you
react in those moments.

But it's very, very high
stress situations.

They do.

And I know that the HR teams
at all of the.

All of the carriers, they work
really hard to try to reduce that

stress level.

But I'll tell you what, it
just doesn't work.

And the worst thing you can do
is have, like, eight or 10 of those

free little bottles of water
that are in the interview room and

then just have to use the
bathroom the entire time.

Like, listen, you got problems.

What's your medical look like?

Yeah, yeah.

How are your kidneys?

What's going on here?

Yeah, we got a doctor on site
to come check you out.

Oh, my gosh.

It's true.

But you know that, that
stressful part.

So when interviewed, they
forgot about me.

And so they pulled.

They pulled like, the people
got the nose, went out early, and

then they grabbed.

There were eight or so left,
and they grabbed them and brought

them in this room.

And I literally sat there for
15 minutes, like, oh, my God.

And I, I. I'm like, I'm the
interview coach, and I'm not gonna

get this job.

Like, this is embarrassing.

And then the guy comes around
the corner.

He's like, are you Nick?

I'm like, I am.

He's like, come with me.

What do we even do in here?

I was like, oh, thank you, Lord.

Maybe they knew your interview coach.

They wanted you to distress a
little bit more.

They're like, all right,
listen, we gotta freak them out.

Yeah, they hang me out to dry
all the time still.

So it's.

It's good.

It's a good.

It's a good relationship, though.

Love it.

Well, Nick, let's.

Let's talk about you a little bit.

We'll get into interviewing.

We'll get every house, which
I'm sure everyone really wants to

hear, because, you know, the
last couple years has been crazy

for interviews.

It's been crazy for hiring.

It kind of leveled off a
little bit and hoping to pick back

up, which we can talk about
what you think, what Spitfire thinks

everything about that a little
bit later.

Right now, I want to focus on
Nick, the person, the pilot, everything.

So let's talk about you.

Why did you ever become a
pilot, man?

I became a pilot because my
buddy Justin Hartfelder told me that

I probably couldn't do it.

That is why I became a pilot.

That's really funny.

When I was.

When I was in high school,
this guy.

This guy, Justin and I grew up
together from sixth grade on, and

we're still friends today.

He ended up going to the Naval Academy.

I wasn't smart enough to get
into an academy.

And.

And he told me, he's like,
yeah, I'm going to be pilot.

And.

And he told me I probably
couldn't do it.

And so I literally.

I went to the Citadel thanks
to a local businessman that, from

where I was, he actually paid
for my first year of college.

He called me over to his
house, and he knew that I didn't

have any money for college.

And he.

He came to me and he.

He.

We walked around this.

This property that he lived
on, and we were talking, talking,

talking.

He's like, so, you want to go
to the Citadel?

What.

Like, what are your plans?

It was like, I'm just going to
enlist in the Marine Corps and try

to save money and go.

And he said.

And he handed me a check.

He handed me a check for
$20,000, and he said, that will cover

the first year at the Citadel.

The next three are up to you.

And that gave me my start.

And then I worked really hard.

I got a Navy scholarship from
there, and then I. I was one of four

of us or so that ended up
getting a pilot slot, and I went

to fly in the Navy.

That guy changed my family tree.

And.

And here we are right now
because of that generosity.

So now I've got to do it to
some kids sometime.

And, yeah, I think it might be
a little bit more than 20.

Your first year of school
might be a little more than 20k now,

though.

I know.

Yeah.

So expensive.

Good Lord, I got five kids, man.

I know.

I'm.

Oh, sheesh.

I'm.

Listen this.

And they all want to fly and
all the things.

I'm like, boy, golly, I better
figure I better get some college

to sponsor the show or something.

I know, right?

Citadel, please help me.

So when.

When you have that type of
generosity, like, when you get the

check for $20,000 in your
hand, what's your.

What's going through your mind?

Are you just, like, elated?

Are you excited?

Are you kind of like, no, no,
no, no, no.

Like, I.

There is no way.

This is too much.

I cannot take this.

Or were you like, oh, my gosh,
thank you so much.

Let's go and start a career.

I was crying like, yeah, I
just to do or how to handle it.

It was.

I talked to my grandfather
about it and what like, he just said,

you know, this is a gift and
this is your opportunity, so take

advantage of it.

And I, I love that.

I think that, that.

I think that that opportunity.

The only reason that
opportunity came my way was because

he was friends with our family
and he knew.

He knew how, like, dirt poor
we were, and he just had it in his

heart to do it.

What's crazy is a few years
ago, he passed away and he.

His son took over his company.

It's a very big company in
North Carolina, and his son has taken

over his company.

And he and I chat a little bit
every now and then.

And when he died, I wrote a
letter to him and thanking, like,

telling him like, your dad was
a great guy.

Your dad was an amazing human.

And he had no idea that the
dad had never told anybody that he

had done this.

And so that, to me was extra special.

Yeah.

You know, that was really cool.

Yeah.

You know, when I was talking
about how he reacted, I get like.

I don't know, I just feel
uncomfortable when I get gifts or

anything.

Like, you know, like, it just.

There's like a little feeling
of uncomfort.

Until someone told me.

It's like, you know, being.

There's something about being
a gracious giver.

And also you have to learn how
to be a gracious receiver too.

You have to learn to accept
someone's gift and let them kind

of give you the opportunity to
give you this blessing that eventually

helped change your life and as
you said, helped change your family

tree.

So there's really something to
it about learning how to be a gracious

receiver as well, which is
kind of a learned skill.

It's not as easy as someone
would think.

I think that being a gracious
receiver is virtue.

And to be virtuous is to be.

To be above where you should be.

And so I, on my show, I talk a
lot about philosophy and virtue and

leadership and the things that
you can do to make yourself better

on that constant opportunity
to propel yourself from where you

are to where you want to be,
knowing that that place is incremental

and never really attainable.

And I think that a gracious
receiver is that.

I agree with you.

I, you know, I'm Catholic.

I Carry so much guilt and
anxiety about that stuff.

And.

And.

But as I.

As I grow and I understand
myself, the be.

The ability to say thank you
and to engage, but also to make sure

that I understand now it's my
opportunity to give bigger to somebody

else and to give more to the society.

Yeah, absolutely.

100 agree.

So you receive this gift.

You go to the Citadel.

Your navy buddy told you you
could never be a pilot, and you were

kind of.

You got a fire lit under you.

You know, you were like, all
right, I'm gonna prove you wrong.

Was there any other part of
you that wanted to be a pilot before

this?

Or is it truly just because he
said you can never be a pilot?

Yeah.

No, I never wanted to be a pilot.

I didn't even know you could
be a pilot until he brought me and

brought it up and said, like,
no, because, like, where we are in

North Carolina was, we're not
close to Charlotte.

We're not close to Raleigh.

We're not close to even
Asheville's airport.

And.

And so we were just in the
middle of nowhere, and nobody was

a pilot, and it wasn't around me.

I didn't see it.

If I was in Charlotte, I'd
probably be surrounded by American

guys and US Air guys and stuff
like that, but I wasn't.

And.

And so I had this idea, like,
I wanted to want to do it, want to

do it.

And then the Citadel offered,
like, hey, if you want to do it,

you got to take this test, and
we'll see if you qualify to do it.

I was like, yeah, sure.

I'll give it a shot.

I literally.

I had never been in a plane.

I had never.

I. I had flown one flight to
visit my grandmother when I was 17

years old in Punta Gorda.

Like, that's the only time I
had been in an airplane.

And then my second time in an
airplane was, like, my first day

of flight school in the Navy, so.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Were you worried you weren't
gonna like it?

Were you worried, like, I
might get airsick, I might get this?

Or was it any kind of.

I did get airsick the first flight.

It's the only time I ever did it.

Yeah.

But I just thought I actually
kind of had a bad attitude.

I was.

I was kind of an ass of a kid,
and so I thought I was cool coming

from.

Coming from the Citadel,
joining the military, and I thought

nobody could tell me anything.

And so I had a chip on my
shoulder for a good portion of my

military career.

And if you talk to guys that
were in my squadron in 2002 and 2003,

they would tell you, like,
that guy you see on the podcast is

not the guy that I knew.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah, I was.

I had a bad attitude.

What's funny is, so I started
when I started flight school.

My first day of flight school
in the Navy was September 11, 2001.

Oh, wow.

So, yeah, it's a day to remember.

Yeah.

And then because it was a
Tuesday and they only start ground

school on Tuesdays.

And so then we got two weeks
off, finished up ground school and

started flying.

But yeah, I.

It took me a long time to get
this mindset of how fortunate I was

for the things I had.

I thought it was just like
everybody gets this.

I didn't think anybody.

I didn't think anything
special about having wings on my

chest or anything like that or
wearing a flight suit.

But yeah, that.

That bad attitude probably.

It probably changed once I got
married to my wife Anna, and like,

I saw what it was like to be a
good person and I just kind of evolved

from there.

And.

Yeah, so, yeah, it's wild.

I mean, there's something to
having a good partner, a good wife,

a good husband in your life
that can show you the way for me

as well.

I mean, this podcast I've
talked about this many times would

not be a thing without
Christina the magazine probably want

to be a thing.

So, yeah, shout out to the
good person in our lives.

That's helping changing our
attitudes and making sure we stay

on.

On track and be thankful for
what we have.

Yeah.

And giving us the opportunity
to do these shows too.

Yeah, exactly.

I've never talked to anyone on
the podcast that started at the Citadel

to do their training.

You know, I've talked to Air
Force Academy, I've talked to Naval

Academy, I've talked to kind
of army pilots, but I've never talked

to anyone in the Citadel.

The Citadel is a very
interesting place.

I feel like no one really
knows of it that doesn't live in

the Carolinas, especially in Charleston.

I mean, beautiful campus in Charleston.

Like, you can't ask for a
better place to go to school, scenic

wise.

Right.

But I don't know much about it.

I know that there is.

It's not.

It's not necessarily a
military school, but it has.

It's like VMI a little bit almost.

Right.

Like it's like you don't.

I don't know how I'm gonna say
this, but you don't have to go to

the military after going to
the school.

But you.

It is a military school, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

It's an interesting.

It's an interesting thing.

The Citadel is.

If first off, you want to get
a kind of glimpse into it, you can

pick up the Lords of
Discipline by Pat Conroy that was

written about the.

The first black student at the
Citadel and his experience.

But I think that to understand
the Citadel is a little bit of.

It's a lot of Charleston.

It's a lot of Charleston history.

Like, if you think about what
Charleston history is, it's not pretty.

And it has a lot of terrible.

A lot of terrible stuff that
has happened with, with slavery and

the Civil War and all the like
in the plantations and all the things

that the money in Charleston
came from.

The school was set up in the 18.

1842 to basically be a militia
in that.

In the state.

And so it was set up as a
military school outside of West Point

and outside of the Naval
Academy and the Air Force Academy

didn't exist then, but.

And then the Virginia Military
Institute, they similar.

Similar kind of setup.

And so, yeah, when you go
there, you're a cadet, you shave

your head, you're like get
yelled at.

All the hazing stuff is what
everybody always talks about, which

is no fun.

But when you're receiving it,
but when you're giving it, maybe

it is.

Don't write that down.

Sorry.

But the.

You don't have to join the military.

However you do.

You.

You spend your life doing
military things and marching and,

and, and physical fitness and
all these things.

At the end of.

While you're there, you need to.

You have to take courses, ROTC
courses given by the military.

So you can choose.

You can choose the Air Force,
the Army or Navy.

Now you can choose Coast Guard
stuff, which is cool.

And, and some.

And people that want to join
the Marines, they jump onto the Navy

stuff as well.

And that's kind of how you
transition to there.

When I went, my class started
with 600 and something.

I think we graduated 211.

So a lot of people drop out.

Wow.

Yeah, it's.

It's because it's hard.

It's really hard to make it through.

And I would.

Less than half my class joined
the military.

But after September 11, it was
like in the 90s percent of people

just everybody joining.

And now I. I don't know.

Like, it's.

It's less.

But not everybody goes.

It's.

If you are.

If you are from that South
Carolina, North Carolina area and

your parents are.

Are generationally well to do,
there's a really Good chance the

Citadel is involved in that.

And you'll have.

And you'll have multi
generational people going there so

that they can pick up and take
over dad's law firm or go do, you

know, run whatever company and
that there was a lot of that too.

So that was very interesting.

And I know we're not talking
about flying, but that's.

I never talk about the Citadel.

This is wild.

I never thought we were
talking about that.

No.

Well, the tie in too kind of
like what's the track of someone

at the Citadel that wants to
be a pilot?

So obviously the Citadel, from
my knowledge, does not have the ability

to train pilots.

So you would have to choose
then between Navy, Air Force, army,

or do you like how does that work?

How do you get selected?

In which one?

Is it up to you?

Is it up to them?

Kind of talk about that.

So my buddy Jeff Couch, he.

He's an American.

He's captain American.

Pretty.

He's like 10 years senior to
me at a.

As far as like being an
airline pilot.

But he, he took the civilian pat.

Took the military path.

Most of the 99% is going to be
like, you're going to have to join

the military to get that
flight time or the other side of

that coin is you're going to
be looking for either a 141 like

an ATP CT ATP or a some kind
of part 61 flight school afterwards

just to knock it out.

And so you're going to.

You're going to pay for cut.

There is a flying club there.

I'm not sure how active they
are right now.

I do.

I did buy one of their polo
shirts to help support them a couple

years back and that's about as
far down the road as I've gone.

But.

And I hope somebody from the
Citadels listen to this and wants

to like send you a message and
be like, here's exactly what we're

doing now, please.

But yeah, there's really.

If, if you want.

If your goal was to be a pilot
and not join the military, that would.

I would have that pretty low
on my list.

Unless you really like
marching in the hot South Carolina

sun.

If so, then that's.

It's built for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's pretty funny.

Yeah.

Not me.

Even though I played football
and I feel like I got yelled at all

the time playing for.

I probably got yelled at more
playing football than I would have

in the military.

Did you play football in college?

Yeah.

How about that, man?

That's pretty sweet.

Yeah, it was the best and the
worst four years of my life.

But yeah, it was, it was a
good time.

So your career.

Citadel.

And then you chose Navy?

Correct.

Okay, so the Navy.

And then did you go just do
your four years at the Citadel and

then eventually you went to
pilot training after that?

Yeah, I did my four years at
the Citadel and we graduated like

May 12th.

And then I was, I was just
waiting to start and a couple months

later they sent me down to Pensacola.

That's when I started the training.

Six weeks of, six weeks of
indoctrination stuff where you, like,

they make sure you can swim
and they, they teach you all the

survival stuff.

And then, and then you start
flight school, like ground school

after that six week group of
work that's called API.

They call it KNIFE now, I believe.

But they got all these names.

They've changed over every time.

Every time there's a change in
acronyms in the Navy.

Like an admiral gets a star.

So it's a great thing.

That's really funny.

When you graduated the
Citadel, are you considered an officer

or do you have to go to
officer school as well?

So you are considered, you
don't have to go to officer school.

You, you get commissions
straight in because you did the four

years of ROTC training.

And there's, there's certain
stuff you've got to do during the

summertime just to go and get
a little, like you spend a month

with the active duty Navy to
see what things are like.

I mean, it's fun.

I, I went to Thailand for a month.

It was amazing.

18 year old Nick with 600
bucks in his pocket for two weeks,

three weeks in Thailand.

It was awesome.

That's a long way in Thailand,
doesn't it?

Oh, man.

Yeah.

I was living like a king.

Yeah.

Out in Phuket, if you guys
have ever been there.

Good golly miss Molly.

Yeah.

Nope, not me.

I've been to China before, but
not Thailand.

So.

Yeah.

So you're doing your military career.

Was the goal then to stay military?

Like, did you have an idea of
like, all right, I'm military trained,

Military kind of on my brain.

I'm gonna stay here for the
full 20 years.

Full 40 years, whatever it is,
I'm gonna be military for life.

Or was it all right, get this
done, put in my time, check out asap,

get to the airlines?

No, neither.

Okay.

Get done as soon as possible.

The third question.

Oh, sorry, I'm kidding.

I didn't have another one.

The third one, just profit, it
was, get in, get out, start a business,

be a millionaire.

That was it.

Okay.

And that's, that was my plan.

And so I got in, I got out,
started a business, and then I was

not a millionaire.

And so that was out here in
these streets, man.

It is, it is.

So I spent, I spent nine, my
first nine years as active duty,

and then I got out and stayed
in the reserves and I thought, I

thought I was going to, you
know, take over the world.

And so I started.

But Also it was 2009 and the
economy was completely crushed and

I couldn't find it.

It was hard to find a job and
do all that.

And it was a tricky, tricky
time to be broke and out of the military.

So you were still flying in
the reserves, but also trying to

do your own thing, just
civilian wise, business wise.

Right.

Yeah.

I was.

No idea of wanting to be an
airline pilot.

No, I was, I had just.

Because I, I was a helicopter
pilot in the Navy and then I switched

to a fixed wing flight
Instructor flying the T34, which

they don't even fly anymore.

And, and so I just, I, I got
out, I was doing.

I wasn't even flying.

I was just drilling in the
Navy and just, just spending time

and I was trying to.

My first job, I.

It was like Dunder Mifflin.

I sold toilet paper and office supplies.

And then, and then I ended up
getting a finance job in D.C. in

the Pentagon working with a
consulting company.

And that was, that was pretty cool.

But it was very stressful and,
but while I was there, some dude

was like, hey, you should go fly.

At my old squadron, I was the
commodore over here.

You can go fly 53s, which is a
53 MH.

53 is like 100 foot long helicopter.

It's like 20 something feet tall.

It's huge.

It's the transformer helicopter.

Yeah.

And so I went and flew that
for like four years.

It was awesome.

And that was my, that's how I
got my flying fix.

And I still wasn't even
thinking about the airlines because

I wanted to start an RV park.

And so I built an RV park in Florida.

Yeah.

Dang.

Sold my house, spent all my
money, built an RV park for like

almost $3 million and, and ran that.

And lived in a mobile home on
the RV park and, and built it and,

and ran it for about five
years and I built it to the highest

rated RV park in the state of Florida.

And then.

Oh yeah, there's a lot of RVs
in Florida, so that's, that's something.

Yeah.

You know, I never knew the
luxury market of RVs and how much

you can spend in Airstreams
and RVs and trailers and Mercedes

Sprinter vans.

Like, once, I think probably
before COVID like 2016 to, like 2018,

it was really popular for
YouTubers to buy these Sprinter vans,

make them up, make them really cool.

And that's when I first, like,
I was just like, oh, Sprinter may

be cool.

I was like, okay, that's a lot.

Or an rv, because, like, okay,
that's even more.

It's like a fifth wheel.

It's like, holy smokes, Airstreams.

Like, there's.

I never knew there's so much
money in the RV world.

It is insane.

It was not uncommon to have a
$3 million RV on my site, on my line.

I mean, all day long, when
that's actually.

That actually kind of feeds
into how I got to the airlines.

People were whispering, you
know, all my.

All my Navy buddies are like,
hey, should think about going to

the airlines.

I was like, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm liking what I'm doing here.

And one day this.

This, you know, like, $700,000
RV pulls in.

And it's this dude, he sits in
my office, he looks around, he sees

my I love me wall where it's
got all my Navy pictures around.

And he says, oh, man, you're a pilot.

Why aren't you flying at the airlines?

And I made my excuses.

And he says.

He says, dude, like, why don't
you just come talk to me?

And I'm like, oh, okay.

Weird.

So I went and parked.

The guy did some work.

Is like, Tuesday at 11 o'
clock in the morning, I go over to

his RV.

I knock on the door, I'm like,
hey, what do you want to talk about?

He's like, hey, my name is
Such and Such.

I just retired from Delta.

I want to talk to you about.

You should.

Maybe you go to the airlines.

Come on in.

So I go into his rv, pulls out
a bottle of Eagle rare, puts it on

the table, and we drink almost
that entire bottle.

And I stumble home at 11 o'
clock in the morning, and I look

at Anna and I was like, we're
going to the airlines.

And she's like, what in the
hell are you talking about?

And she's like, she was very
upset that I was drinking at 11 o'

clock in the morning.

I don't usually do that.

And that was usually.

You say, good things don't
happen when you do that, but it sounds

like good things do happen
when you do that.

For you did that day, it
really was, it was very serendipitous.

The guy was super cool.

And so I called up my mentor,
Michael Phillips, who I've interviewed

on my show a couple times and
I rolled in and told him like, hey,

I'm thinking about doing this.

He's like, well if you want to
do that, come on, I've have got access

to an airplane.

Let's get your multi engine
rating and get you sent off.

So I went, I got 26 hours.

I hadn't flown in like five
and a half years.

I got 26 hours in a DA42, took
my check ride, passed it, interviewed

at Envoy like a week later and
started like three weeks after that.

No way.

It was wild.

And I sold the RV park and I
used all the money from the RV park

to pay for the five years of
making fifteen hundred dollars every

two weeks.

Yeah.

From your first takeoff in a
Cessna 172 to chasing horizons in

a Beechcraft King Air or
cruising high in a Cessna Citation.

Longitude, Textron Aviation
has been there for pilots like you

generation after generation.

For nearly 100 years, the name
Cessna and Beechcraft meant one thing.

An aircraft you can count on.

Whether you're flying for
business, for adventure, or just

for the love of it, Textron
Aviation builds the aircraft that

help you do more and go farther.

So if you're thinking about
upgrading your aircraft, stepping

into your first jet or
expanding your fleet, Textron Aviation

is ready to help you take the
next step.

They offer the performance,
capability and support that pilots

trust every single day.

Because when the sky is your
inspiration, Textron Aviation is

your partner.

And what's next?

Learn more about how Textron
Aviation is built for the skies ahead

[e-mail] that's
txtav.com very excited to add Textron

Aviation to the sponsor list
for the Pilot the pilot podcast.

I've always, always wanted a
plane from Textron Aviation.

My dream plane is a 182, maybe
a 206.

So hopefully in the next
couple years we can make that happen.

But shout out Textron Aviation
and as I said, make sure you go to

txtav.com that's something I
love to talk about.

It's just, you know, as
someone who came in new to the 121World

from the fraction world, so I
got to see the new, I got to see

all this other stuff and I, my
dad is an airline pilot, so I've

seen the bad side.

I've seen, you know, US
Airways after 911 where they take

60% you lose your, your, your pension.

I've seen the bad side.

So my dad was kind of like, if
you, if I ever hear about you complaining

about anything in your
contract, I will slap you.

He didn't actually say that,
but I have a feeling that my grandpa

who watched the food in the
airlines and my dad would both slap

me silly if I ever complained
about anything.

But it's very interesting to
hear people complain about stuff

that don't or how just don't
remember or don't even.

Some people don't even know.

All they know is I went to
flight school.

I got hired at a, at a regional.

I spent two years at the regional.

Now I'm at a American, now I'm
at Delta, now I'm at wherever that

didn't happen back in the day,
2009, when you got out of the military.

Probably one of the worst
times to be a pilot, right?

Like, I mean, everyone's
furloughed, can't get hired.

There's like 10 people getting
hired maybe for an airline, maybe

more, I don't know.

But it was to get hired there.

To get hired in 2009, you had
to have 3,000 hours of aircraft commander

multi engine heavy time and a
737 type rating.

And that made you just, just
barely qualified to interview at

Southwest.

And they would take 15 people
that year.

Insane.

Yeah, it's insane.

I think you bring up a good
point though.

Let me.

Can I talk to that for just a quick.

Absolutely.

Please do their.

I don't know when this is
coming out, but last night of my

phone started exploding and it
was people that were on a conference

call with A Velo Airlines and
a Velo is announcing that they're

furloughing 25 of the people.

So this happened less than 12
hours ago and they're going to drop

off 5 of their aircraft and
they're doing like a lot of things

are going on and there's shock
going through the community about

this furlough on top of what's
going on at Spirit.

And they're like, oh man, how
can this happen?

This and that.

And because there's no
perspective because we've lost like

that gap from 2009 was a long,
long time ago.

And so now like the smaller
companies, the startups, the companies

that, the companies that
struggle to sell tickets and be consistent

on routes and things like
that, those are the companies that

are, that are, that are having
those ripple effects.

And that is literally the
nature of aviation.

When you go to Miami and you,
you look over there on the cargo

ramp.

And you see, you're like, what
are all these different airlines?

I've never even heard of these.

Like, they're like, summer
exists, some don't exist.

And they come and they go and
they rename and they sell their certificate

and all this stuff.

And that is like, that is like
the, the life cycle of aviation.

Not every, like, this time
from the new contract Covid till

now is freaking amazing, and
we're in a wonderful time.

But also when you, you've
like, you got to be like mad eye

moody.

You've got to have one.

You, you're doing your job,
getting your, getting your hours,

but you've got to have one eye
one, you know, looking somewhere

else.

Like, what am I going to do next?

Because when, when my phone
started ringing and it's these, these

guys that are, that, you know, I'm.

I'm 25 from the bottom.

I've got, I just left the military.

I've got three kids.

How am I going to support them?

What am I going to do?

Like, be a good call.

And then another guy calls that.

He's like, dude, I just got
hired by American.

I'm going to be leaving here.

I can't.

I'm so thankful that I was able.

I was listening to you and
able to pivot and like, these two

different sides, and it's so hard.

So my heart, like, the empathy
that I feel and that I, that I try

to bring to these guys and
gals that I talk to, I mean, it is,

it is real.

Because I, I.

Most of my phone calls are not
like, like, hey, I've got two good

choices, which.

What do I make?

It's like this bad thing happened.

How do I pivot?

Yeah.

So.

Which is tough.

And I saw the.

When I woke up this morning, I
have phone calls because I don't

help with interviewing, but I saw.

I was like, hey, Avello is
restructuring and wanted.

Why I thought that was
interesting is because I always thought

it was cool that Ovelo had a
base in Raleigh, Durham.

I was like, oh, man.

I mean, I'm not gonna work for them.

But like, it's cool to see
someone have a base here.

And I like that.

And then it's like, well, jk,
we are now changing that.

And I guess they're moving the
base to Concord.

And they went from a ton of
bases, just five or four or four

or five bases.

And I didn't realize it was
because of kind of like a downturn.

The way the article that I
read was Just, oh, we're restructuring

more profitable routes, more
profitable airplanes are coming on.

We're getting rid of the less
fuel efficient 737, 7 hundreds and

focusing on the 800.

So yeah, it's, they're
focusing, they're focusing on doing

detainee flights to, to other countries.

Like that's what they're
focusing on.

It's not like the, the ticket
purchasing is really struggling as

far as, as far as just their
flying from, you know, Raleigh or

whatever.

They closed Burbank, I don't
know, four months ago.

Everything on the west coast
closed down a couple months ago.

And it's just, it's, it's this
march toward like, I don't want to

say march towards insolvency,
but like, better tighten that belt

is what that, that the
marketing team was trying to tell

you at Avello.

Yeah, that's why it's a tough industry.

Right.

I mean we've seen, we've seen
big giants go out.

We've seen massive airlines
never think would leave.

I mean, this was a while ago,
but it doesn't mean it can't happen

again today.

You know, once you're, it's
really interesting because once you're

on top in the aviation world,
like, they think it's going to stay

like that forever.

They think it's going to be
like this forever.

But you know, there was a time
where Delta wasn't number one.

There was a time when United
could not buy a good story about

themselves.

And now everything you read
about United is like, oh, this is

the best.

This is awesome.

This is great.

You know, it's, they, they
can, they really turned it around.

So what is number one right
now doesn't mean in 10 years will

be number one one as well.

So it, it's just such an interest.

I don't, I truly don't know if
there's anything like this industry.

Like, it's truly just a wild,
it's like the Wild West.

You never know what's going to happen.

I also think that just because
you have seniority doesn't mean you're

safe.

And when you look at Western
Global, when UPS had the MD11 tragedy,

they, the DOT grounded all MD11s.

Well, Western Global
furloughed every MD11 pilot they

had.

Doesn't matter if it's the
number one guy or the brand new or

the most brand new guy.

And that they, they, they
furloughed out of seniority order

to get all those people
because they can't fly them anymore.

And they're like, all of a
sudden, like, Monday was a good day.

Tuesday, we're about to
completely collapse.

So that is aviation.

Yeah.

And you would like to think
that that wouldn't happen at kind

of, you know, the big four or
the major airlines, but at the end

of the day, airlines do what
they need to do to try to survive.

And I'm sure if they had to,
they'd be like, hey, we're going

to do this.

You can fight it in arbitration.

We can wait the two years for
this, and hopefully we'll will be

better.

Or they're gonna be like,
look, this is all we got.

We're gonna go out of business
unless you let us do that.

And they're gonna be like, oh,
okay, yeah, we can do that.

You know, it's so.

It.

It's.

Yeah, it's definitely crazy.

These contracts are great, though.

It is a great time to be a pilot.

It's really interesting
thinking about, like, 2020, the massive

downturn, what felt like
everyone's gonna furlough, didn't

know what was gonna happen.

And then what actually was
happening was it was the perfect

time to be applying to a major airline.

It was the perfect time to
start your training.

It was the perfect time to
continue your training and get caught

in the biggest bo.

Well, hopefully it continues.

Like, it might slow down a
little bit.

We're probably not going to
see the same hiring numbers, which

you could probably talk on as well.

But it seems to be that 2026,
hopefully, will be another great

year for hiring.

Do you see that?

Does Spitfire see that?

Or is it kind of just like a.

We'll see.

We don't know yet.

There's still a lot going on.

Well, I know the forecasts.

I know where everybody's.

What everybody's talking about.

It's nice to have access to
the 121 carrier hiring teams and

having these conversations.

And I'll tell you that it all changes.

Like, when you look back at
2025, when you.

When you just look at.

Look at United, their original.

Their original number was,
like, 1700 that they were trying

to hire.

They ended up.

They ended up over 2200
because they made a.

They made a pivot, a decision.

Scott Kirby and his team made
a decision, I want to say, like,

September or so, that, like,
hey, we just.

Let's ramp this up and get
going, and let's.

Let's cash in on these pilots now.

And they.

And so they did, and they,
like, doubled down and really ramped

up their hiring.

And with that hiring, they
also really ramped up their, like,

thanks, but no thanks as well.

And.

And so that, like, people.

People that weren't expecting
opportunities, got opportunities,

and some people were caught
with their pants down and not.

And not ready and hadn't been
getting ready ahead of time.

So I do want to warn you,
like, if anybody's applying, first

off, I think, yeah, 2020, all
that stuff that was super cool, like,

what a little.

What a wild ride.

But it is, like, if, like, my
kids, like, as they're wanting to

start into aviation, like,
now's a great time to get into it

because there's.

We are.

We are in a place where there's.

I don't want to say there's
more stability, but there's.

There's more ability to absorb
abnormalities if another Covid happens

or another September 11th.

Like, even if another
September 11th were to happen, I'm

not sure that the flying
public would stop flying for such

a great amount of time.

I'm not sure that would happen.

Or, like, with the economic
crisis and the bankruptcies, there's

a lot more cash on hand.

There's a lot less debt being
managed by every airline except,

like, Americans still paying
down their debt as well, but they're

getting, like, they're getting to.

Everybody's getting to this
really good footing to be able to

absorb some kind of black swan
event, if you want to call it that,

or whatever it is.

And so that's good, but I'm not.

I don't want to, like, stake
my claim that it'll never happen

again, because I can't.

Like, it will.

It's some.

Every eight years, some
happens, and.

And so you roll with it.

And you've always got to be
like, you're my what ifs.

I'm.

I'm a captain at my airline, but.

But every day I'm a what if?

I.

Like, I. I.

You.

You cannot believe how much
money I try to save just because

I spent my whole life with no money.

Just because, like, I want to
make sure that if it ends today because

I say something on the show
that somebody doesn't like, and they

fire me today, like, okay,
like, I will be okay.

I will find another path.

I will have, like, I will be
able to support my family.

And also, if you were a pilot
and you want to get back into aviation,

I also think now is a great
time because I. I had a phone call

on Sunday of a guy I had.

I've known a guy I went to the
Citadel with, and he.

He was a pilot.

Was.

He's Got a whole bunch of kids.

And he doesn't like his desk job.

He hates his desk job.

And he's like, I want to
figure out how to fly.

And so we've started the
conversation about how to get to

a regional, but you can now
get to a regional with just a little

bit of savings.

If you.

If you are trying to support a
family like that, first year pay

is.

Is not great.

It's probably a pay cut for
whatever you're doing now.

But then year two and three
and four, like, that's a lot better.

Yeah, man.

And so.

So be, like, be ready for that.

Like, enjoy that and be.

Lean forward if you can, but
have a talk with your spouse first.

Figure it out.

You know, it's crazy that you
can actually have a living wage now

at the regional airlines, right?

Like, I remember talking about
when I first started the podcast.

I started talking to more
people that were just getting hired

by the.

The majors there at the
regionals for a while, kind of in

the bad years.

And there's a lot of stories
of, you know, I slept on the bench,

I slept on the crew lounge.

I slept on by the gate.

I was shaving in the terminal bathroom.

I was brushing my teeth there.

Like, couldn't afford anything.

Like, honestly could have been
on welfare because, yeah, my.

The people at my church were
buying us groceries, and I could.

I had to choose when to pay
our electric bill.

It was very difficult.

And, I mean, I went through my
entire life savings I had.

I literally was down to zero
by the time I got hired by the major.

It was the most serendipitous
moment of my life because we were

about to call uncle, and I was
gonna go figure something else out.

So you never know.

Like, I was on the razor's
edge, man.

And so, you know, I'm.

I'm thankful.

I'm thankful for the experience.

If I didn't have that
experience, I wouldn't be able to

have the show, wouldn't be.

Have the conversations and the
depth of experience that I've had.

And so it's great, man.

Yeah.

Let's go.

So as someone who is an
interview coach now at Spitfire,

did you use interview coaching?

Did you use a program to get
hired, or did you.

Like, I could do this.

I know how to answer questions.

I feel like I'm a natural speaker.

I. I actually have taken
classes in storytelling and public

speaking, and there's no way
in hell I would go to an interview

without interview prep ever.

I have seen people do it, and
I would say the majority of them

are unsuccessful.

And then I'm, you know, you
meet the ones and twos of the.

The person that did do it and
got the job offer.

Like, good on you, bro.

You beat the.

You beat the curve.

But if you have the
opportunity to put the odds in your

favor so that you're going to
win the game, why wouldn't you do

that?

That.

Yeah.

And the other way I look at it
is, is the airlines see kind of.

They see so many people go
through interview coaching, like,

they probably see all the time
they do.

So that is the bare minimum of
the answers of the preparing that

they expect.

Like, they expect you at the
very least, to be able to.

To be able to put out what you guys.

Everyone that you guys can put out.

And if you can't match that on
your own, then they're gonna be like,

well, you didn't feel like
this job was important enough to

prepare this hard for or to
pay the $600 for them.

Why would we hire you over
someone that is really wanting this

and really has put the time
and effort to interview?

If you're 25 years old and
you're interviewing at a major airline,

you've got $22 million at stake.

And one of the things we like
to say at Spitfire is we make more

millionaires every single year
than professional baseball will do

in five years.

And that is like, that's the
fact of the matter.

And it's not about the money,
but it is about the fact that you

need to realize, like, there's
a lot stake, bro, and you need to.

You need to double up on it.

And so to answer your
question, I did use Spitfire.

I started off with another
organization, and I thought that

it was antiquated, and I
thought that they had a bunch of

videos online.

I thought they were, like, old
from, like, the 90s.

It was.

Yeah.

And it just.

It didn't.

I was like, this is fine, but
I was scared.

I was like, man, I don't.

Like, I don't feel.

I don't feel it.

And some Spitfire was just
starting, and.

And somebody had reached out
and said, you should give this a

try.

And so I. I mean, like, I
spent the money and it was.

It was a scary thing to spend
the money, and.

And, man, it just changed everything.

It is true that the
interviewer can.

The interviewer can.

Can smell what you're putting
down, and they know.

They know who you've used
based on how you articulate yourself,

because there's a couple
different varieties and flavors of

how to talk about Yourself.

There's a canned answer where
like, hey, I've heard this story

before.

I've heard like I've.

Man, the, the names have
changed, the times have changed.

But golly, man, I keep hearing
this basic style of story over and

over and over.

And then there's, there's one
like, oh, this person led with empathy

and this person led with, with
the way to articulate back to me

what the question was.

I pushed them a little bit.

They were able to, to, to pivot.

They used great crew resource management.

They really understood the position.

And then at the end of the, at
the end of the question, they told

me how that experience was
going to make, make things better

at United and make things
better at American and how they are,

they are the asset that we
want to make our company go to the

next level.

And so getting, getting from,
like tell me about a time you did

this to.

Let me tell you how with me at
your organization, we're all going

to win together.

Like, that is, that's a,
that's a, that's a higher level conversation

that takes experience to be
able to articulate believably.

Yeah.

Do you.

The way that.

I mean, this might be wrong,
but I kind of view it or I have viewed

it in the past as if you want
to go to United, you go to Cage Marshall,

Denver.

Denver, right.

If you want to go to American,
as a recent, you go to Spitfire.

I don't know what Deltas would
be, but is that true?

Is that completely false?

I would say if you want to go
to Delta, use Spitfire.

If you want to go to American,
you should use Spitfire and United.

A really good choice for
United these days is Spitfire.

And I love Cage Marshall as well.

So no shade to the ladies at
Cage Marshall.

I think they're awesome and if
you want to use them 110%.

I back you on that.

I think that they have so much
to offer and it's one of my favorite,

one of my favorite companies.

So I, I do like, I want to, I
bristle a little bit to, hey, this

is the, this is the, the
company focused on that organization.

Because what happens there is
if they are, if they are completely

focused on one company, that's
where your canned answers come from.

That's where you're like, hey,
I know what they like to hear.

I know what they want to hear.

So I'm going to teach you the
thing that they want to hear.

Like it's, it's bigger than that.

And so you need to zoom out to
know, to know like, we didn't start,

we, like, we didn't even start
to try with America.

We started because the,
because the, the FedEx CRM exercise

was like created by Bill and
Tron, the owners and they taught

to it and they help people
understand how to, how to accomplish

it.

And you know, FedEx hasn't
hired in 18 months.

But the we were started did to
help minorities, women and people

with English as a second
language get into aviation.

And so if we can help them get
there because they are the least

represented of anybody in, in
the aviation industry, then everybody

else benefits because you can.

Like, if we can help them, we
can easily help you, right?

And so it doesn't matter if
you're military, it doesn't matter

if you're a civilian man.

If I'm, I'm filling out an application.

If I'm, if I'm, if I'm like,
hey, I've got, I've got my ATP CTP

next week and I'm starting to
fill out my application.

By the time you hit send, you
had already, you should already be

signed up for interview prep.

Because I was like, when did,
when should someone sign up for it?

All right, let's say I'm at Endeavor.

I want to apply to all the airlines.

Do I do it before I even start
the application?

Do I do it in the application?

Do I do it for the resume?

Like, when is the perfect time
for this to happen?

Happen?

I think that if you are going
to start form, I think if you start

formally moving that way, then
you, the first thing you need to.

Listen, let me, let me digress
a little bit.

You need your notebook.

Get your notebook together,
start writing down your stories.

And then you need to start
writing down your budget and where

your expenses are going to go.

Because the expenses happen a
lot and they happen.

They're just super dynamic.

And every time you turn
around, it's a logbook thing or it's

an app review thing, or it's
an interview process prep thing,

or it's a suit or it's shoes
or it's a, you know, a haircut.

You need all of those expenses
written down and then you've got

to allocate.

When am I going to buy that?

Do I have all the money right now?

Well, then let's just go get it.

If not, then you need to rack
and stack that in, in level of importance.

Am I going to go to a conference?

That's $1,000 minimum.

I mean, if you don't fly for
free, if you can't non Rev, that's,

I mean, that's $2,000.

So those are things you've got
to think about.

But when you're building that
application, your budget should be

leaning toward it's time to do
interview prep.

Because even if it takes two
years to get the interview, I, it

took me five years to go from,
to go from as a Navy pilot.

It took me five years to get
hired from my regional to a major.

And I thought it was going to
be 18 months, but I had, I had my

interview prep stuff in my
pocket it.

That entire time because my
application was already published.

I would update it every single
week for five freaking years.

Sorry, what's that timeline
look for right now for someone that's

applying right now?

Like, what, what do you see?

Was there a trend?

Is it just different?

Does it, Is there just.

Is there a magic sauce to be
getting faster?

Is it just kind of like it's.

Yeah, you need 1501 hours.

Okay, if you have 1501 hours,
you'll be hired.

You're hired.

I, I would tell everybody,
like, don't believe the lie of this

guy had 50 hours less than me
and he got hired.

Yeah, that person did.

But that person also had other
things that the applicant.

I mean, the application is awful.

It's 30 pages long.

The application takes so long
to fill out.

And because of that, there's a
lot of information about you on there.

And, and, and that story
creates the entire profile of who

you are on top of your interview.

And so just to get called,
like, you could maybe, you know,

hey, they might have 50 hours
less than you, but they were gold

SEAL instructor.

They were a blue angel.

They were an astronaut.

Like I, like, they were.

Pick your, pick your thing.

They, they volunteered for the union.

They're the vice president of
the, you know, of obap, or they're

this or they're that.

They volunteer, they give
back, they do things more than they,

they take.

And they're part of this
aviation community.

I've seen them at five
conferences in a row.

I've seen them at 10
conferences in a row.

I've seen them here, I've seen
them there.

I see them being positive on
LinkedIn, like all these things.

That's like the big picture.

It's all of it.

And it's.

You've got to, you've just got
to roll with it sometimes.

You're going to get the
interview, you're going to get a

thanks, but no thanks, and
you're going to pivot and you're

going to roll to the next
interview and you're going to than

thanks and you're pivot and
roll the next interview and they're

going to say, welcome aboard,
we're happy to have you and you're

going to be home.

So it's, you know, it's more
than just 1500 hours.

It's more than just 3000 hours.

It's a bigger picture.

So don't focus on that.

Focus on making yourself
better every single day.

If you can make yourself just
incrementally better, you have a

better chance tomorrow and a
better chance the next day.

Do you guys talk at all about
social media presence and how that

can negatively affect you or
positively affect you?

Like going like to air
airlines when they see applicants

or they invite you out, do
they actually go check your social

media to see what you're
posting, to see what you're doing?

Is it something you should
make pride?

Just kind of talk about
Spitfire's guidance on social media?

Because I'm guessing an
airline would want to prevent a headache

that could pop up.

You are, you are one of the
biggest podcast aviation podcast

hosts in the world, right?

You fly for a major airline.

I, I am a medium sized podcast host.

I fly for a major airline.

When you go on my socials,
you'll see that I fly in a major

airline.

You're not going to see my
wings, you're not going to see my

shoulder board.

If maybe I wore a hat, you
wouldn't know because I wouldn't

have a picture of it up there.

However, I understand that
people are, people are dynamic in

their social media and they're
influencing the things they want

to do it.

I have seen it work positively
and I have seen it work very negatively.

I've seen people lose their
jobs because of that.

And so you have to know
yourself and how you're going to

thread that needle.

And if you are an influencer
and you do get an opportunity, I

wouldn't be flaunting that
opportunity before, you know, know

before you have a seniority
number because that like, man, there's

just so much they can get rid
of you for when you're on probation

or when you have a CJO and
they're like, we're just going to

pull that cjo.

I, I work with some influencers.

I've, I've, I've had a ton of
them come through Spitfire and, and

it, they're all different ever.

Like some, some people are
like, you know, like, look at this

experience that I'm on.

What a wonderful experience.

Some people are like, hey,
look at me and how cool I am and

what I do and this thing.

And then, you know, there's,
there's different flavors.

And so you need to know your
flavor and be honest with yourself.

If, if you.

I think about one of my, One
of my favorites is my layover life.

The dude from United, like, he
clearly shows he's from United, but

he has permission from United.

I have permission from my
airline to talk about what I do,

but I'm very careful about it
because I don't want to, I don't

want to impact their brand.

I want them, I want them to be
successful so that I can be successful.

Right.

And so, you know, if I'm, if
I'm flying a trip every day to St.

Thomas, like, I got to be
careful about how I'm going to deliver

that.

I would say you got to do you.

But also if there's a.

Like I would, I would air on
the side of being more conservative

on the things you're going to do.

You.

Because it is a.

Like when you go to this job,
they don't want to know, they don't

want to know how many people
are following you.

You know, you're getting that
job because you really, you need

the money, you need the
insurance, and that's why you're

going to get that job.

Like if you're making $10
million a year doing your, doing

your influencing, like you
don't need that job.

So that's not who's going to
get the job.

Right.

Also, if you are making $10
million a year, please call me.

Please give me a call.

I would like to talk to you.

Yeah.

How do you do it?

I'm not pretty enough.

What are your kind of.

Without giving away too much, right.

Obviously, go to Spitfire, of course.

What are your top three do's
and don'ts for the application process?

This could be a resume, it
could be the application, it could

be an interview.

Like the top three things
airlines don't want to see and the

top three things airlines do
want to see to see.

I think that the number one
thing is you need to lead well with

who you are.

And so that means I need you
to have your application tight.

And the way you get your
application tight is to have somebody

review it, that it does it professionally.

That's seen thousands of resumes.

They can tell you how to, how
to reword your dui, how to reword

your incident, how to reword
your accident, how to put, you know,

write the word drive instead
of doctor with a period or how to

be consistent across an application.

That application takes weeks
to fill out.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Like it takes.

It's awful.

And that's just one airline
and anyway, yeah that.

So be ready with that.

But also your resume is.

Your resume is who you are and
your logbook is your thesis.

So both of those need to be
tight when we go.

So Spitfire, we, we pride
ourselves as the only interview coaching

company to go to every single
one of the conventions, all seven

of them.

We go every single year.

And, and now we're, we're
actually starting to partner with

the Arab American Aviation
Professionals which is brand new

group starting this year.

Like that are.

Get that it formed last year
and they're really getting moving

forward this year.

So there will be an eighth
conference in 2027.

So we, we invest very heavily
in that.

But while we do resume review
and we'll have every day we have

people waiting 30, 45 minutes
for us to go through resumes and

re, rejigger them and, and get
them set.

All of that stuff, you're
doing yourself a little bit of a

disservice showing up and
needing a review.

Like you should show up in
front of a recruiter with the tightest

resume you ever had and the
most confidence and the most brushed

teeth and, and just go in
there with a smile and crush.

And so if you can do those
things and know your logbook and

have it in order and do like
do the basics that's going to set

you off on that opportunity
that somebody else is not going to

have.

What's a common resume mistake
that you see?

Like maybe like one of the
most common ones that's like, oh

my gosh, for the love of
whatever, please change this.

I have a really great episode
about how to write the perfect resume.

And I would first off push
people to go watch that.

I spent a lot of time, I asked
for, I asked for people to send me

resumes, resumes.

I got more than a thousand
resumes and I went through them all.

It took forever.

And I saw a lot of white space.

I see a lot of misspellings.

I see, I see a lot of people using.

We are, we are in a
conservative job doing like dressing

conservatively like acting.

You know, you could go to a
convention in 1955 and go to a convention

in 2025 and it looks similar.

People in suits, booths, that
kind of stu and, and same thing at

the interview.

It all looks the same.

So you need to be, you need to
be aligned and know that the, that

the, the Things you're talking
about and the things that you're

doing are all, are all
organized to be as conservative as

possible and so on resumes
using newer format stuff.

I'm not hiring a graphic designer.

I don't need your cool emojis.

And like, that's a cell phone.

That's my cell phone number.

Here's a little computer.

It shows what my email address is.

Like, get that stuff out of
here, man.

Like, get it tight.

Get it conservative.

And, and less is more based.

Not less is more.

With like, no, there's a ton
of white space.

But less is more like, I don't
need you to be decorative.

I don't need you to be the
social media.

And don't put, do not put your
Instagram handle on your resume.

Could you imagine?

Yeah, I've seen it.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

I see it.

Like, I'm like, follow me.

Yeah.

Well, they're like, hey, I got
this line here about me being an

influencer.

I get this market and I'm
like, get that out of here.

Like, no way.

Like, they don't.

That's a, that's actually kind
of a threat.

So they don't want that.

I want, I want, you know, who
your mom thinks you are.

I want you to be that, that
really good pilot, that really good

instructor, that really good,
that really good, you know, regional

pilot, whatever it is.

The.

I want you to talk about leadership.

I want you to talk about safety.

I want you to talk about crew
resource management.

I want you to talk about
customer service.

If it doesn't, if it doesn't
talk about those four things, I don't

want to see it because those
are the things I'm hiring for.

I'm hiring the chick fil a of
pilots and I want that.

So tell me how you are.

That.

Yeah.

What do you say to someone
that maybe has been out of regional

for longer than they wanted to be?

They've had a couple
interviews, maybe they didn't get

that.

They just got the thanks, but
no thanks.

What do you say to someone
that's kind of down in where they

are because they see, you
know, the other people, I got 1500

hours, I just, I'm in, right
seated, whatever regional.

And I just got hired at United.

I just got hired at Delta,
just got hired at American.

They see all these people get
hired and they're like, what the

heck?

What am I doing wrong?

What do you say to someone in
that situation?

I say the same thing that I do
to my 18 year spirit pilots.

The guys that have Been at
Spirit for ever and now they're having

to make a bad, like they're,
they're like being forced into make

this decision that they don't
want to make.

First off, I love you and it's
going to be okay.

Like start with, start with that.

Like it is, is going to be okay.

So let's take a look at the
big picture.

And a lot of times the big
picture has to do with attitude and

presentation.

And it is important that if
you've been there for so long and

you've been there longer than,
and you all of a sudden you expect

that they owe this to you or
you're furloughed from your company

and you expect because there's
a benefit to being a furloughed pilot

to get a preferential interview.

Like if they smell that a mile
away, that's a thanks but no thanks

all day long.

I don't even need to finish
the interview.

I don't even need to ask any
more questions.

So who you are, how you, how
you present yourself, like you met

your, like the first time you
met the girl that's going to be your

wife.

Like that first date, you have
to seal the deal for your whole life

right there on one date.

And so do it.

Be the best that you possibly
can be.

Smile.

And when they say no, it's.

That literally could just be
not yet.

And that's okay.

So take a breath, step back,
make yourself better.

Go in with an even more
exciting attitude.

Like do all the things, get
the reps more and just go back happier

and better and just be
consistent with.

And something will happen and
something will give.

And don't be just like one now.

No, two no's, three no's, just
keep going, it's okay and keep re

attacking.

Six months goes by pretty quick.

I've had, I've had people at
major airlines get four or five thanks,

but no thanks and then finally
got picked up.

That's consistency, that's
keeping a good attitude.

Like do it.

It's.

It can happen.

What's one thing in the
interview other, I mean, we've talked

about being yourself, we've
talked about being clean, being conservative.

But from my point of view, the
number one thing that got people

in trouble in the interview
that I was in was their logbooks,

was not having a clean log
book, was not having a prepared logbook.

And I think it caught me a
little bit off guard.

I mean I, I made sure, I
printed out, I bound a logbook, I

marked everything, every check right.

Everything I Notebook.

I did everything for my
logbook, but just the idea, like,

how much they emphasized the logbooks.

I think it caught me off at how.

I mean, I know it's important,
but, like, how important that was.

Like, I think if you were on
the fence and you had a bad logbook,

it was a no.

If you're on the fence, you
had a great logbook.

It's a.

A yes.

Yeah.

The logbook is your thesis.

It's a.

Literally a legal document that.

And so if, like, I. I almost
didn't get my job because of my logbook,

and I will say that I pride
myself on having badass logbooks.

Like, my logbooks were legit,
and I had everything tabbed.

I had it color coded.

I had my wife, who's a
calligrapher, like, write this stuff,

like, perfectly, beautifully.

Every page was signed.

Every, like.

And if there was a
discrepancy, I had a cover.

She showed where the
discrepancy was and wrote out what.

You know, why?

And they still found a problem
with my logbook.

And the problem was.

And everybody's going to roll
their eyes, but you got to think

I'm a military pilot coming
into the civilian world.

So I need you to give me a
little grace on this before I say

it, because I'm super embarrassing.

I kept a thousand hours of
121envoy time in one of those pocket

logbook.

A thousand hours.

And I had every page signed,
and I had every page totaled, and

it rolled to the next page,
and it was perfect.

And the person in the
interview team says, hey, is this

your logbook?

And I said, yes, sir.

What can I do for you?

He says, that's not a logbook.

I said, well, it says logbook
right here.

He's like, that's a pocket
logbook, and that is for keeping

track of expenses.

That is not for flight time.

And I was.

He said, do you have anything else?

And I was like, oh, boy.

And I. I told you, like, I am
Mr. Anxiety.

I had printed out.

I had sat down with all of my
paper log books and hand typed them

into an Excel spreadsheet,
like, thousands of hours into.

Took me.

Took me like two and a half
months of just, like, cranking out

numbers.

And I had it all bound and I
had all those pages signed and they

all added up.

And I just.

I just had it in my.

In my bag just in case.

And I said, well, if you let
me go over to my bag, I have a spreadsheet

that I can show you.

And he's like, What?

And I handed it to him and he
said, this is perfect.

This will do.

And that saved my bacon.

So you don't have your logbook
sorted, bro?

Like, too bad.

So sad.

See, on the other side, it
takes so long, long.

And it's so much work.

And like, yeah, you can go pay
somebody to go do it.

And maybe you should.

I have a guy right now who has
like 5,000 hours that he's all got.

Like, he's got in bounds and
bounds of books that he's having

digitized right now just in
case, because he's freaking out about

having to get, having to get
this next job.

So do what you got to do, but
realize, like, that's your thesis

and you better be able to
defend your thesis.

And, and sometimes, especially
at Southwest, if they start like,

hey, what about this right here?

And they're trying to put you
on the spot.

The fact is, sometimes they're
trying to test you to see if you're

going to get stressed out, to
see if you're going to become a jerk.

To see.

And like, that's one of the,
like, that's an old school test of

like the logbook people, the
admin people, like, pushing on you

to see how you're going to
respond in a stressful moment, because

that's how you're going to
respond in the airplane.

And a lot of people have been
sent home because they're like, hey,

what about this?

This doesn't make any sense.

I'm not sure we can do
anything with this.

That.

And if you were like, oh, I'm
so sorry.

Let me, let me figure this out.

I know, like, I know that I
had this right, but let me figure

it out.

And they're like, no, I
actually, no, I think this is okay,

thanks.

Or if you're like, I know what
I'm doing.

I spent so much time on this
thing and it's right, like, see a

sucker, you're out of here.

So interesting.

Yeah, that's a real, like,
that is one of the old school tricks

that people don't know about
because Southwest hasn't hired all

year.

As someone that prepares
people for multiple, multiple companies,

do you think anyone has the
best interview experience?

Like, as what you see?

Not at, not from your airline,
not from whatever as a Spitfire coach.

Do you see some.

A company that has like, the
best interview, the either the most

calming, the best prepared,
the best footprint, whatever it may

be, or are they all about the same?

There's one, there's one
that's above everybody else.

It's Alaska Airlines.

They're awesome.

Like it is, it is group, group
interview, group therapy.

Like everybody comes together.

It is.

I mean, you want to talk about
drinking the Kool Aid?

I have, I live close to the
Chick Fil A headquarters and I, I

hang out with some of the
executives out there that are really

great.

And when I go there I get this
experience that everybody there just

is like, just like in the restaurant.

And that's how it is over
there too.

So the best interview, like, I
know you didn't expect Alaska, but.

No, I don't.

They are head and shoulders great.

The majors, like everybody,
everybody has their own flavor, but

also everybody's starting to
tighten the screws right now as far

as people being prepared and
being exceptional because people

are there, there's an
opportunity to look for the exceptional.

And so that's, that's what it is.

So it's a high stress, high stakes.

Big reward board, you know, is
the outside looking in.

I mean, I don't know all the
numbers, you know, but I'm going

to ask you kind of who you
think is going to hire the most?

From what I see.

I see that Delta has hired
more than the other two.

Second by United and then
followed by American.

Do you inversely expect that
for American to hire more this year

than United, than Delta or is
it kind of still up in the air?

They all could hire the same,
Delta still might hire more or what

do think you see?

So I mentioned earlier, it's a
little bit of moving target.

And last year's numbers were,
last year's numbers I think are going

to increase by about 10 or 15%.

I can, I can see American
hiring about 22, 20, 2300.

I can see United being between
that 19 and 2100 and I can see Delta

looking at 600 to 900ish.

And, and there's a lot like,
there's a lot going on with how those

numbers are created based on
deliveries and fleet fleet size and,

and all of their, like where
they're growing and where they're

not growing and, and what
their, what their future plans are

for, what they're going to attack.

United's fact of the matter is
they got more wide bodies because

they fly a lot of east and
west over, over to Asia.

And so they've got to be able
to staff those.

It takes, it takes 45 pilot
like FOS to staff 176.

So you've got to like get them going.

You got to get a, you got to
get a bunch of butts and seats.

But also there's enough people
that want to go do it that they're

able to be very.

They can.

They can say no to whoever
they want.

They can just pick their.

Pick their apples from the
tree that.

Are the right host.

Do you think the days of, you
know, you've heard it like, hey,

I.

Someone's like, I really want
to go to United.

They got hired by dude, Delta.

And then six weeks later
they're like, all right, I finally

got my CGO at Delta.

I'm gonna go here now.

Do you think that's kind of over?

Do you think of, you know, in
the past, you always got hired by

who you got hired for and you
stayed there and that was your airline.

Do you think those days are
kind of over, or do you still think

there's the opportunity for
you to.

To kind of choose and then get
the airline you really thought you

wanted?

I think so.

There used to be this.

There used to be this
mentality, especially, like, Americans.

Olion, like, hey, I just got a
CJO with United.

Would you, you know, I know I
really want to fly for American,

but I'm not ready to flow yet.

Would you interview me?

And they're like, that, that's
out of here.

Like, that.

That's not a thing.

So if I think that, I think
that people, People kind of grow

where they're planted.

If you are living in Atlanta
and you get hired by United there

and.

And you are looking at 30
years of commuting to Dulles, like,

maybe that's not really what doing.

And then, you know, maybe
you'll be able to get.

Get your app in and get a.

Get a call from Delta.

Maybe not.

I see people.

I see people from every
airline commuting out of Atlanta

or commuting out of Dallas or
commuting out of wherever.

And so it happens.

People will.

People do switch airlines.

It's way less right now
because, like, if there's a big extenuating

circumstance, that's the thing
that's going to pull you out.

Like, oh, oh, I've got a
special needs kid and I live in Denver

and they like these special
doctors, you know, so, yeah, I get

it.

So.

But it's not very typical.

Yeah, one of the.

Okay, no, tell your story.

One of the ones I really hate
is my.

A dear friend of mine who was
like six years senior to me at my

airline.

He was at a major passenger carrier.

Then he went to FedEx.

FedEx stopped hiring.

He got frustrated and then he
went to a secondary.

A second Passenger, carrier.

Carrier, where he's now, like,
super junior.

So he gave up, like, seven
years of seniority and, like, chasing

the brass ring is a really
tough, really scary thing.

So just be careful what you
ask for, you know?

Yeah.

And that goes back to kind of
what we're talking about earlier,

where just because Delta's on
top now doesn't mean the 10 years

Delta can't be in the middle
of the pack or the bottom, you know,

so you really don't know that.

Great contract right now.

Just.

Just sit tight, just wait.

You know, there's a good
chance that the bottom could become

the top or.

Yeah, it all settles out.

And you never know if you make
the right decision until age 65 comes,

you retire and you look back
and you're like, yeah, I had a pretty

good career.

I did.

I think I did everything right.

Or you'd be like, I'm an idiot.

I should know.

Why did I leave?

What was I doing?

Oh, you know, it is what,
like, and don't live in the past.

That's okay.

Yeah.

Which is tough not to.

Yeah.

April 25th is the day that
Delta starts renegotiating their

Section 6 contract for next year.

So that's.

We're already three years into
this contract, so everybody else

is going to start negotiating
contracts, too.

So it's be.

Prepare yourself for lots of
gnashing of teeth and lots of.

Lots of angst.

And that's just what happens
during contract negotiations.

It is.

It is.

Yeah.

When I left my last job, I
only applied to two airlines, one

never heard from, and the
other one, within a week of me applying

was like, hey, you want to do
an interview?

I was like, sweet, let's go.

So it's really crazy how this
all works.

And I think that just having
the ability to have someone on your

side, and as we talked about
earlier, you know, there's kind of

a bare minimum.

Minimum that these companies
look for, and that is this.

The using these services.

They will put you up against
everyone that has you.

Spitfire, Cage, Marshall,
whoever you use and use Spitfire.

I'll go ahead and say it.

It's been fun.

So I'll tell you, I give you a
shout out, but just everyone that

you use, like, they expect that.

They expect you to be able to
answer questions just like that.

And if you can't do it, it's
going to be like, well, why didn't

you pay 600?

This is a $22 million job in
your career, and you didn't want

to spend 600.

Now, are we not worth that investment.

You know, it's like they kind
of think that.

So definitely try to do it if
you can.

I think it, I think it would
be worth it.

One thing I'd like to say is
purchasing interview prep can be

a transaction or an
opportunity to join a community.

And that's that I think is the
big difference is that the community

that we bring together, like
when we go to these conventions,

we have our own private chats
with our, with our, our clients.

I mean, we'll have 1400 people
on the chat that are all our clients

that are all working together
to like, hey, this is going on.

That's going on.

We just found out this
information from this company.

Hey, if you're looking at this
company, this is what I heard.

Here's some new information.

And all of that information flows.

And then even after the
conventions, like, it continues on,

friendships build.

I mean, I've, I, I, I think I
benefit from just being the face

of everything, that
everybody's my friend, but I love,

like, I love friends.

And like, it just is like
having people going through the battle

with you, like, it makes it,
it makes your endurance continue

and it gives you even, even in
the lows, it helps you, helps get

you get lifted up again.

So community is first.

Agreed.

I mean, I, when I got hired, I
was in Indoc and there's a bunch

of spirit people and this was
2024, so a little bit different time,

but still kind of riding on
the wall of what could happen happen.

And he was telling me about
how there's this spirit pilot group

chat of this airline pilots,
and all they're trying to do is try

to help out their buddies.

So it's about the community
and as many communities as you can

get in, you don't know which
community is going to help you, right?

You don't know if it's gonna
be the Spitfire community, if it's

going to be your, you know, if
there's a group chat for your regional

and your friends with people
have been hired, they probably know

people too.

So be a part of these
communities, be present and don't

just kind of shell in yourself.

It can be hard.

I am an introvert to my core.

I don't seek out to talk to
people very often, which some people

are surprised by that since I
do talk a lot on a podcast, but it's

hard for me.

But it's very important that
you try very hard to join as many

communities as possible.

So you can just have all the
options out there, just so you never

Know who's going to be the one
to help you.

It might be someone you never
thought in your wildest dreams that

could help you 100%.

100%.

Like, the more you can get out
there and the more.

The more mentors you can get,
the more you can mentor.

Like, it's a.

Agreed.

It's.

It's.

You scratch my back, I'll
scratch yours.

Like, go do it.

Do whatever you can to get.

Get yourself out there.

And it's hard to put yourself
out, but do it.

And be nice about it.

Always be nice.

And the last thing I'll say
once you're there, give back.

People have helped you out in
your career.

It could be starting a podcast.

Could be whatever you want it
to be.

It could be mentoring.

It could be being an interview coach.

It could be working for a union.

It could be anything.

But just give back.

Don't put off the next generation.

Help them.

Because you needed help at one
point, too.

It could have been someone
being like, hey, come talk to me

in my seven $100,000 trailer
and drink this bottle of whiskey

with me.

We're gonna get you excited
about the airlines.

It could just be possibly
talking to high schoolers.

Like, there's so many people
out there that I realize, like you

said, where you grew up, you
didn't know it could be.

It was possible for you to be
a pilot, but it is possible for anyone

to do this.

All you have to do is just
give them the idea.

So go to high school.

Go talk to high schoolers, Go
talk to middle schoolers.

Just.

Just talk to people about
aviation and tell them how great

this is, because, I mean, we
all still need pilots, and the world's

gonna need pilots, and it's a
great job to do, and let's let everyone

have a chance.

Yep.

And if you are a pilot and you
are walking around the airport and

you're in your pilot uniform,
high five those kids.

If you're a person that hands
out playing cards and, like, trading

cards and stuff, like, hand
them out.

Like, be.

Be that person that, like, excite.

Like, because every time I
walk past a kid, they're like, there's

a pilot.

Yeah.

Like, nobody goes, you know,
nobody's like, oh, there's a guy

that does a regular job that's.

That sits at the desk all day.

Like, no, because it's like,
an aspirational guy job.

So, like, raise that up.

Lift that up.

That's a good thing.

My kid has gotten trading
cards from an airline, and he's also

gotten, like, Those fake
little wings.

Probably the two best days of life.

He's like, dad, look.

It's like, buddy, I'm a pilot too.

He's like, I don't care.

Let me see those wings again.

Listen, my kids just want me
to bring him first class snacks.

They're like, got any gummy bears?

What you got?

Those sound like good snacks.

Yeah, I'm hungry.

I gotta get some food.

Well, Nick, I appreciate you
coming on the podcast.

It was a lot of fun.

If anyone wants to follow you,
listen to your podcast.

You know, your chance to plug
yourself and make it work, dude.

Well, ready for Push Back?

We create the roadmap for aviation.

And I just want to say thanks
for having me, Justin.

Like, it's been awesome to
talk to you and to spend time.

I have been listening to your
show since the beginning, and I'm

thankful for you and I'm
thankful for what you do for this

community.

So thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Anytime.

And Spitfire.

Go ahead and at least talk
about their website too, so people

know.

They're like, oh, Spitfire.

I've heard of the other ones.

Maybe not Spitfire.

So.

So link that up too, so people
have the opportunity to go check

you guys out.

Yeah, check us out.

Spitfire elite.com.

you can use the code R, the
number 4P2026 and get a discount.

So R4P 2026.

Put it in the show notes if
you want to reach out.

Podcast spitfire elite.com.

i'll talk to you.

You want to talk about
something hard, something easy.

You want to tell me you hate
my smile?

Like, whatever it is, reach out.

Happy to.

Happy to chat.

Yeah, well, we know pilots all
love discounts, so I'm sure people

will be using that.

You're the man, dude.

Well, thank you so much for
having me, man.

Yeah, anytime.

We'll.

We'll talk to you soon.

And I'll.

I'll join your podcast here
soon so we can get you.

Get you on that as well.

All right.

It's promise.

All right, dude, we'll see you later.

Appreciate it.

That's a wrap on today's episode.

Thank you so much for listening.

What a fun conversation.

It was great talking with Nick.

He's got a great voice for podcasting.

I like, feel.

I feel like he talked earlier
maybe off podcasts where they just

shipped him a bunch of equipment.

Like, hey, we need you to
start a podcast.

They couldn't have picked a
better guy.

He's been doing great.

I would love to get them in the.

In the magazine.

You know, I have a little
interview tip section in here so

maybe we can make that work.

But Nick, thank you so much
for coming on, everyone.

I appreciate you listening.

It's been a lot of fun.

And 2026, you know, I'm really
looking forward to 2026.

2025, honestly, I'm not gonna
lie to you, was probably the worst

year of my life.

It was, it was a tough year.

We, we had some battles with,
with some health stuff in our family

and we're looking for 2026
just to, to be better, healthy, everything.

And yeah, appreciate everyone
supporting the podcast.

Appreciate everyone buying the
magazine and continuing to listen

and share this podcast and
help more people become pilots because

I can't do it without you all.

So thank you so much for listening.

I truly appreciate, appreciate it.

But that's a wrap on today.

We'll see you next week.

Happy flying.