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Unbound is a weekly podcast, created to help you achieve more as a leader. Join Chris DuBois as he shares his growth journey and interviews others on their path to becoming unbound. Delivered weekly on Thursdays.
0:00
On today's episode, empowering employees, developing future leaders, all while running a business, or your leader trying to get more from your business and life native. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Dan Peterson is an entrepreneur and founder of the digital agency flip switch leveraging over 25 years of diverse business experience from restaurants to sales. Dan is focused on spreading positivity as a speaker, coach and podcast guests drawing on Adventure spanning pizza shops to lumber yards to motivate business owners and help them achieve more with their companies. Dan, welcome to on math.
0:44
Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm excited to be here.
0:47
Yeah, let's uh, let's jump right in with your origin story.
0:52
Oh, man, so I come from a small town. You know, I live up by Chicago now. But come from a small town of 4500 people. And I grew up with an entrepreneurial family, everybody, for the most part, with few exceptions, either owned, or ran one to five different companies, depending on what was going on at the time. So my parents were part of a group with, with my mom's brother, and her parents, and those three families had a Ben Franklin store, which, if you're a younger listener, probably anything younger than 35 or 40. You wouldn't even know what that is. But they are a precursor kind of to Walmart. So it was a five and dime, you could get everything in there, from crafts, to clothing, to stationary, toys, everything you needed. And so I grew up, literally in that store, I mean, every day for 1012 years, whatever. And then they got out of that business. And I was in high school at the time. And then when I went off to college, I was pre med, then I quit that went into business. And then I quit, everything ended up working in the pizza industry. And that's where this whole thing kind of started. So I worked for two different pizza places. And one of which was Papa John's ended up, they wanted to make me the regional manager over the Midwest or a couple states. And instead, I quit completely with the other direction and started a rock band did that for five years, which led me to a job that I had to get there was a day job so I could play gigs at night. And that day job was working with people with disabilities at a day program. That's where I met my wife who also worked there at the time. And one thing led to another and here we are today. But I've always known I think just deep down that I was meant for like business ownership, entrepreneurialism, that type of thing. I don't ever feel like it was a choice. I feel like it was just a timing thing. So for me, here I am all these years later now 12 years ago as of this time. So coming up on 12 years. Yeah, that's when I started flip switch. And it's crazy, because I feel like that's an eternity. But it went by in a blink of an eye.
3:09
Yeah. Alright, so I'm gonna start with the most pressing of questions. Perfect. What was the name of your rock band?
3:15
It was eclectic theory. And it was a very eclectic, it was an original band. We played a few covers and stuff in there for good measure. But we were really popular. We were in Champaign, Illinois at the time, you know, University of Illinois there. And so you have a large student population to play to and we packed the house everywhere we played. We were we were good. And we had fun and did a good job at it. But nice. Everything has
3:42
the surviving. Yeah, any surviving YouTube videos? Oh, no,
3:46
no, it's pretty good. It was more MySpace. There was there's a couple of videos out there somewhere. There's one on YouTube, I think. They got put up through the small little record label that we were on at the time, but but it was fun. We toured a few times, like I use that word loosely. I mean, played some shows at a state like East Coast and back and stuff. But I'll tell you this, from a business standpoint, running a band, or even being in a band is way more difficult than anybody imagines unless they've done it. And I almost recommend that I don't recommend but there's a definite parallel there between entrepreneurship and running a band, especially back then when we didn't have social media. So it's like you're out hustling, you're making flyers, you've put them on telephone poles and but running that from a internal standpoint with four or five other guys that you're trying to get on the same page. And it's something else so yeah, it's definitely something that I think probably was just a necessary step in my overall journey to where I'm at today. But I still play I still, I'm a solo musician. Now. I play around Chicagoland I play once or twice a month that it shows from bars and breweries to private shows and I always joke that it keeps me sane keeps me from all the issues that you deal with in business. So
5:06
yeah, I can imagine that I got I, I play a bit, but only a very local shows is in for my kids.
5:15
Man, that's the best. That's where that's data.
5:19
So, going back into business world now, you've worked in a lot of industries. What are some of those key principles that you think apply across the sector's right for creating the success? Yeah.
5:36
Having worked with so many different managers in so many different industries, there's just such a lack of good management out there. And I mean, I had some really good ones, but I had some really bad ones. And I think that we're, we're finally coming to a place now I feel. And obviously, I haven't been out in the workforce in a long time. But I, I see it from like a 30,000 foot view, right? I'm I'm seeing businesses, we have clients coast to coast, I'm seeing kind of like, from that higher view what's going on. And I'm realizing now that I think we're in a place where a lot of owners and managers are starting to realize that people have lives outside of work. And for the longest time, and it's we're certainly not cured from this yet. There's still a problem, but we're getting there. But I think there was for the longest time, just no empathy, or sympathy to anything going on in anyone's lives outside of the four walls of that business. So if you were sick, yeah, you had to struggle to get a day off. But if your kids were sick, if your wife needed you to run somewhere and do something, because something happened, and you got to go get the kid or you know, anything going on in your personal life, there was no room for that in the workplace. And you were chastised for it or punished, or in extreme cases fired, you know, for things like that. And nowadays, I feel like, especially with remote work, and just kind of how things have changed in the last couple of years. And then people are just realizing that life is short. And it's time to start putting work as not such a high priority on the overall scale of what's going on. Just not that often the end of things, you know.
7:17
Yeah, it's I think, employees are starting to force the mindset of looking for the employer looking for outcomes, rather than just output. Right? So it's like, I can take a break, pick up my kids in the middle of the day and still get all my work done. Like watch, you know? Yeah. And since people have the ability to vote with their feet, it's like those companies that'll enable that are going to be the ones that stick around. So very true. Yeah, let's, uh, shift into just entrepreneurship and your, your journey, I guess, for what advice would you have for those entrepreneurs that are struggling with like, motivation? And you know, just getting the right mindset? Like, how can they shift that? Maybe even when, you know, what habits would you recommend so that they can actually achieve everything that they're aiming to?
8:10
That's it's kind of like the golden question, to be honest with you. I think that two parts does I think, one you have to find something that you love, or certainly enjoy doing. And I think that's hard. Even for me, that's hard. I've run this company for 12 years now. And it's, there are plenty of days, I'll put it this way that I wake up and I'm like, is this what I want to do for another 10 or 12 years? Or Part B of that is, is this what I could best how I can best leverage my time, you know, because I feel like I do have a lot of skill sets, I do have a lot of interests, a lot of things that I could monetize. And I don't know if like, maybe I'm wasting my time with this and should be doing one of those. But at the same time I started the company. And this is a big touch point on this. I started the company out of a passion for small businesses, because I saw the problems that they were having. When flip switch started. We were a web design company. And for the first couple of years, that's what we did. And then I quickly rolled it into social media. And that's been that way now for the last decade, where we do that for the client. But it was it was out of a need for these businesses that don't have the extreme budgets of bigger companies that they're up against, almost like ironically kind of like the Ben Franklin's versus the Walmart's to my earlier point. I mean, the small business owners, you know, obviously back then when my parents ran that store, they didn't have social media, it was newspaper ads and local word of mouth in a small town. But they still had the same problems with running those ads, you know, $500 for a newspaper out or whatever, is that the best way to spend that money this and that. So when I started this, it was early early in social media. It was still early and moderately early and website stuff. You I just saw that nobody was helping the small guy. So back to your question and your your point, I think that if you know what you want to do, and you have a higher purpose to do it, then it makes it easier to do it. Do I love running this agency every day. No, I do not. I would be lying to anyone saying that day to day I get up, jump out of bed. And I'm excited to do this. But I, once I get into it, and I do it, I love it. You know what I mean? When it's really going in, I'm really on my game, I really love it. But it was never intended either. And this is the second point, I think that people need to realize that you can have a life outside of what you do. And you can pair them up. And there's lots of different combinations and permutations of how you can put those two together between entrepreneurial life and personal life. And I never intended flip switch to be my endgame. Anyway, it has always been from day one, a stepping stone, a financial generation tool to allow me to invest in other things. Like now I own part of a pizza place. This local i I'm looking eventually into real estate and you know, different things, some other business opportunities. So that's all being able to be done through the financial generation that comes from flip switch, which just happens to also scratch the itch of helping small business owners being an entrepreneur in general, and just, you know, have being your own boss, all those little checkpoints along the way. But I think the short answer is people just need to know what they want to do love what they do, or like it enough to do it every day, and care that intelligently with what they do in their day to day lives with family, friends, kids, whatever. It's kind of like the sweet spot.
11:45
Right? And so I mean, agency life is busy, right? There's no, it's crazy. I've never met an agency owner that's like, oh, no, I got plenty of free time. So what are some of the things you're doing to kind of deal with burnout so that you're not right, you can have time for all of these other things you want to be doing? Yeah,
12:03
it's funny, I just talked about this yesterday, I need a vacation, like I try to, we try as a family to go somewhere and do some stuff a couple times a year and like get away and, and so on. But that's one thing. And we you know, traveling and making sure that you're not stuck at home, or stuck in the office or wherever you work out of, in my case, it's a home office, you know, being tied to that job. And tied to that all the time will burn you out if you don't have a release. The second thing is, like I mentioned earlier, I play music. So back a few years ago, I was playing so much that that was actually burned out, like at one point, because I also host open mic nights so that upper other musicians have a place to play that maybe aren't gig worthy, but or maybe they are and they just still enjoy the, you know, open mic concept. But I've been hosting those for the better part of 15 years. And at one point a couple years ago, I was hosting three open mics a week and playing three or four shows a week. So I was out 567 nights a week playing music, still running the agency still doing all this stuff. And you talked about burnout, that was like two full time jobs. So I think that even the things you enjoy, like in this case playing music, you can still burn out that side of things too, if you're not careful. So it's just balance. And it's you know, I guess that's kind of the key to everything in life. Right? Balance. Yeah. Yeah, that
13:29
it's near impossible to achieve. Balance. Yeah. Very true. So let's, let's talk leadership principles that you've managed a lot of different types of teams, diverse teams, what are some of the things that you would recommend managers are actually looking at or leaders are looking at in order to to make sure they're running their team efficiently effectively
13:52
and ethically? Right? Well, this goes back to my first real job was back in high school which led into college and for like, five maybe six years I worked in manage, eventually manage a lumberyard like the whole building center side of it so all the roofing materials all the the wood, the lumber, all that kind of stuff, the deliveries of it and having a crew of five six guys that I was in charge of deliveries, I was in charge, like making sure the whole thing ran. So even going back that far, I feel like I was early in my view of how management should go and I hadn't even really had that much experience with management yet at any level, but it was just an internal kind of inherent thing within me that said you should just be nice to people like just because they're you're their boss or their manager, whatever doesn't mean that you shouldn't treat them like friends and respect them and this and that. I mean you have to have a little fine line there so you're not a doormat, but I always found and this went for the lumberyard the pizza place the A sales company I worked in, like everywhere that I've ever managed people, when you have the respect of people, because you treat them nicely, they will work harder for you for that pat on the back than they ever will for the stick. You know, it's the carrot versus stick principle that everybody talks about. But the carrot is really the key to the whole thing. And knowing when to use the stick, I mean, there is a time and a place for that. I'm not like all Frou Frou, you know, hippie, like, oh, peace and love, and nobody ever gets in trouble. But I think when you when you, you know, go back to my earlier point of looking at life in general. And understanding that work is just a necessary evil in life. I mean, ideally, like if none of us had to pay for anything, or do anything, none of us would be working, we'd all be out doing something that we love to do, or working on something we'd love to do, maybe I do think that work is part of what you were meant to do. Like, there's a internal business kind of mindset that everybody kind of has, like, whether you're building a brick hut in the middle of a desert, or you're doing like people have, they need that, you know, like they need that purpose. But let's not forget that too many people go to these glass towers and work for 50 years and then retire for 10 years and dire. If they even make it that long. You know, there's, I'm going deep here, kind of from a meta level, but it's really, there's just a lot of perspective that you can gain. So I feel like I had that perspective early, like just in me for whatever reason. So I always felt that. And I always saw the results of working with people and managing people, when I did it from the way that I knew how to do it. No management training, no schools or classes on this, it was just an internal thing saying, hey, just treat people with respect. And part two is work as hard or harder than they do. If you always lead, then people will follow if you're trying to push them from behind. You know, everybody's seen that meme where they're trying to push all the people versus leading the people or whatever, it's, it's very, very true. So I, nobody taught me that it was just kind of in me. And then combine that and go over 20 years of working with different businesses and agencies and this and that. In organizations, I mean, and seeing how so so few people do that. Like it was crazy to me, especially like in the 90s and 2000s. Like I said, I think we're turning a corner on this now. But back then it was like I had, I mean, some bosses like crazy stuff, you know, just jerks, like how do you even do what you do? How do you not go to bed at night thinking like, Oh, I was terrible today that my people like it just didn't make sense to me. So I just never had that in me. I just feel like I've always been a pretty nice guy.
17:53
Yes, I think something was something that a lot of people probably don't realize, as well. Like I was in the army for active duty for seven years. Wow. And even in the army, I had leaders who were terrible bosses, like making the worst decisions, right? Just making everyone miserable. And it's like, why, but a lot of people from outside the military think, oh, everyone in the military has great leadership experience. They're awesome. Like, it'll be great in the corporate world, like, No, we're just like everywhere else. Like some people just don't get it. Yeah, I thought of two quotes when you're just going over that stuff. One is, I don't know if someone else said it. So I quote, I might say that I created it. And I'll just let people. I'll go with it. But no one's ever been heard from a pat on the back. Right? I just like her, why would we not just like, I did it yesterday in in one of the Slack channels with my team. It was just like, hey, just want to give you a friendly reminder. You guys are awesome. That was it. And like, one of one person was suspicious that something was happening, but everybody else was like, Thanks, appreciate it. But then there's also a I think it's General Mattis said it could have been someone else. So apologies if he's listening to this podcast episode. When your team knows how much you care, they will care how much you know. And it's amazing just by showing up as a leader right and doing the right things. Your team is going to act accordingly and you're actually going to create a better environment to actually get the job done.
19:21
Sure. So yes, leading by example at all levels from the physical like right you know, putting a shovel in the ground kind of mentality to the mental side of things where it is a pat on the back they did a study. I pretty sure I read about this few years back that I don't think I'm making it up but I saw an article that said something about we're not very good at quoting sources. Your army Chris, we kind of we're not fighting. That's all right.
19:50
Leave it for the show notes. Perfect.
19:53
So yeah, there's a study done that people would much rather have a pat On the back when they are doing something good, and you know attaboy, as they call it, versus a monetary bonus to a certain point. Now obviously, if the bonus is like $20,000 Bonus, alright? But like just, you know that that short little quick like, Hey, you're doing a really good job. Thanks for being here, thanks for doing this, that went so much farther in this study than anything that, you know, these leaders at the time they could even imagine when they I remember now it's coming back because I'm talking about the the leadership side of things when they were looking at that study, we're like, wow, like, who knew? And to me, it's like, well, I knew when I was 19, like, just it's common sense to me. And I think that the world is finally starting to get as much as we lack for common sense in 90% of areas nowadays, at least we have it, we're starting to see it from a leadership standpoint that people want to be with people that are friendly, and nice, and also work hard and just aren't jerks. And I just think that that's kind of the whole trick to building anything successful. And, I mean, it even goes to my agency, like, not my, my employee side, I'm talking like the, the client side, when you treat people that are paying you, you know, with respect, and you're friendly, and you have empathy, and you understand, like, if they're like, hey, you know, I, I gotta pause services for two months, because this or that happened, or, you know, like, instead of like, being like, No, you're under contract, you can't do it. You know, like having that knowledge and that, that decision making capability, from principle built on principle to say, You know what, that person, there's something going on in their life, they need this break. Like, I'd rather lose the money for my company. And then every time I've ever had to do that, which happens more often than people realize, if you don't run an agency, and you don't care, if you do run an agency, and you don't come across that, I'd be very surprised. But it's happened to us a lot, probably a few times a year for ever. And every time that I make that decision to say, alright, you know, pause it, we'll catch up when things get back on track and your life, every single time that ends up being something positive coming from that, whether they sign on for longer, or they send referrals to us, like immediately after that, it's always like a timing thing, you can see it happen in real time. It's not like I'm making it up. And it just happens to be coincidence, it is pretty much every single time I've done it something good has come back from that. And you know, that's not why I do it, I don't do it, like, Oh, if I do this, they'll probably go tell five people about me, it's more about just doing the right thing and living in that pocket. And trying to just treat people the way you want to be treated. You know, it's pretty simple.
22:47
Right? On by building that goodwill, when it gets to the point where you don't have to ask for things just by being a good person doing the right thing that goodwill follow, because people know that right? You have the reputation of being someone worth working with, because you're going to do right by everybody. So yeah, and every business
23:07
owner listening to this can put this or manager can put this in play. Because every single business that has any type of customer service at all, which would be 99%, I can't imagine somebody that doesn't have some kind of customer, right? I mean, that's the point of business. So basically, every business owner, if they just implement that kind of mindset for their customers and their employees, they are going to grow that business tenfold over the same amount of time that somebody that doesn't do that, both from word of mouth. And from simple karma, you know, where you're just you're building, you're putting yourself in a situation where people want to help you they want to pay you in this case, they want to be part of the team, part of the client base, you know, whatever. So that is, it's just a simple principle that we kind of have always operated by flip switch and even, you know, things I did before this, but
24:02
yeah, it's right. Yeah, another one of the software companies that I work with, we had just just this past week, there's someone bought, like probably the lowest ticket offer that we have. And they didn't even know if they would get support for what they purchase. But they reached out to our support team got great support and ended up leaving a very lengthy review. Five stars, right, that just it said all of the right things. Now this is like an asset for the company to be able to use and show off. And we didn't have to ask for that review. They just they gave it because the customer support was so good for the 4050 bucks, right that they spent with the company, right? Like for them it was worth doing that. And so yeah, I mean, we'll take care of people. Yeah, it's
24:49
really fun to see to like that makes it that's the most fun part of business. It's not, you know, it's like I almost want to say like it's, it's the unexpected things that you get back when You're doing something like when you're really in that zone and things are clicking along. And I've noticed just in the last like three or four months of my business, this is just really hitting hard. Where when you put yourself in certain situations, and you're doing the right thing for certain people, you will immediately in a lot of cases, get this flow coming back at you. And it's hard to describe unless you've been there and done it. But you can work as hard as you want. And until you go out, and you start doing things, either for, I don't wanna say for free, but for lack of a better way to put it, like doing it out of the goodness of your heart, just treating people nicely and building relationships, and whether it's going to Chamber of Commerce meetings, and talking to somebody that needs your help with something and you do it and that, you know, like, just all the little things you can do that are free, basically, you're not making a dime off of it, you're not trying to, when you start doing that, I know never seen a better sales tool. It's like all of a sudden, 10 people call your company and be like, hey, so and so told me that this and that, like, we want to work with you too. And I mean, I, it's happened so much in the last three or four months. It's scary for us. But it took me like, because I've kind of had retreated back to my office for a while. And like soon as I get back out, and I start going to the meetings and doing the stuff that like, you know, the local stuff that I can do, and being on committees and all the little things to give back to the community. Even though we're a national company, I, I really tried to focus locally first, because when I live in second biggest city in the country, or whatever, so it's, it'd be stupid for me to not look locally. But it's more about just that Ben Franklin mentality that I grew up in of, you know, we're a small store in a small town helping a small handful of people on the grand scheme of things. But you treat every customer, right, you do the right things, this and that. And then when you take that to scale as a bigger company, and you're doing it at a national level, that you still have that local kind of vibe, and feel and push, it really pays dividends. That's a big tip for your listeners, right there. I hope somebody takes that.
27:07
How are you? Like when you're achieving these things, right? And seeing these, like that this action led to this result? How are you capturing those lessons, so that you can share it with your team show, like actually give them demonstrable proof of what's working? Yeah,
27:24
I'm very hands on. And that's not even the right word. It's a better way to put that. I, it's part of the culture. So it's something we talked about all the time, I preach it to everybody I talked to, you know, like, hey, even my kids, I talked to them a lot about this stuff. Like, with if somebody at school is picking on one of them or saying something and you know, whatever it's like, be empathetic to that kid, you don't know what's going on in their home life, they might have terrible parents, they might have just lost their dog, they might be sad about something else. Like there's always something going on in the background. Always. People aren't just jerks to other people are picking on people for in this example I'm getting, because they're just naturally inclined to do so I really don't think so. I mean, maybe a small percentage of serial killers, but I'm saying like, the majority of them are people that have had something go on, whether it's that day or in their life or so on. And to just have that empathetic, natural response is kind of the culture that I think has led to business and in, you know, to flip switch and everything else that we do, were like, just the other day. Here's a good example, the other day, this guy, he's one of our clients been working with us for probably a year and a half. didn't give us any indication, he wasn't happy with something we were doing. No indication all of a sudden, like, I just want to quit. It's like, well, that's what your we don't like we have our first client from 12 years ago. Still, nobody quits flip switches, I mean, tongue in cheek, but very small attrition rate compared to an agency like 10%. So it's unheard of in our industry. And when I hear that, it's like, well, the first thing is, is like something's going on. So when I find out, and it's really something as simple as he didn't like, some of the times a day that we were posting, now we're doing things on a data driven basis. So we're looking at when the algorithms are best going to show this content to the viewers and so on. He's looking at it like, well, we're only open two thirds of the normal business hours. And we need it to be a certain time. And so as soon as I was able to explain it to him and say, Look, there's a reason by what we do, you paid us for our expertise. You're not paying us to just sit here and look pretty. So when as soon as I was able to explain it to him, and instead of flying off the handle and be like, Nope, you're stuck in a contract, you know, whatever it is, he was trying to get out early. Now he's still a client. I explain things to him, showed him why we do do what we do. And there were some other miscommunications that had come through my team. And I said all that straight because we're human, we're just because we're a good agency doesn't mean we're perfect. And so there's communication issues. And part of it was his fault. Some of it was our fault. And, you know, I had that conversation. And I did it from a human standpoint. And now he's still a client. And I guarantee when it's all said and done, he's a lot more likely to still refer us to people probably more more likely, to be honest, because we resolve the issue, which in this day, and age is a, you know, kind of a lost art. I feel like people just, they'd rather just throw it away and not deal with the problem. So I come in as the owner, fix it, believe it well, and, you know, now we're back on great terms.
30:48
So I just think a lot of those issues. Yeah. Good. I think a lot of them stem from expectation management. And it sounds like that was the case here as well. Right? He, he believed one thing should be true. And then as soon as you reset those expectations, he's like, Oh, you're right. Like it makes sense. And now that he is someone who's actually going to refer because it like it became so clear, right, like, oh, the expectations were just misaligned.
31:12
Right, sorry, I'm talking over you. Yeah, the, yeah, expectation management in agencies is probably the biggest industry I've ever seen. That's, that's a requirement. And it's an ongoing thing, too. Like, we have clients that have been with us for 567 years that never talked to us, it is the craziest thing it is set it and forget it. And thankfully, we do such a good job that that's capable. But it shouldn't be like really like, they should be communicating with us and vice versa. But we reach out, they don't, they don't even get back to us. It's like we can't care more than they do. So we do the best that we can on our end. And but you know, like setting those extra, I guess the expectations in that case, we're set so well, in the beginning, maybe that they're just super happy with how it goes. But it is something that should be ongoing. So if there's agencies listening to your podcast right now, that's a big key, that will save a lot of attrition. I mean, we don't like I said, we're like 10% attrition rate. It's like an agency land. It's unheard of nobody, I mean, 300% maybe is normal, like to turn over your entire customer base every year, three times is more normal than 10%. And to have the same clients for some for eight, 910 12 years, it just, it just speaks to what we do. So I think that gives me the leg to stand on when I do these podcasts. And it's like, well, what is this guy now? Well, I clearly know something because it's working across our country, you know, clients coast to coast and it's working so
32:43
great. No, I mean, even you mentioned a year and a half with one client who was like, just that is like, Wow, you got a one for a year and a half, like, it's,
32:52
it's awesome. And that's like one of our newest ones. Most of them are like three, four or five, seven years.
32:59
So it's cool. Thanks. But as soon as you can nail expectation management, I mean, even one of the two, like really big challenges that a lot of agencies face lead generation, right? It's just, it's really hard to get more leads in the door. But then the second one is scope creep, you end up like, operationally just losing so much profit, because you're accepting of all of this additional work that you're not billing for. But if you set the expectations right at the start, good. Like, you're right, it's easy to say, Hey, that's not something that we're doing right now, we can get in a separate project, maybe we can add it to the scope, it's gonna cost some money, and they're gonna be okay with it. Because you've set the expectations. And so yeah, no, that's actually,
33:38
that's one of the best points that's come up in this conversation, because that is very much forgotten. It's, it's the backend, right, like, so setting expectations, and here's what we do and whatever. But then people try. And I'm gonna say that some of them intentionally take advantage of you. Some of them don't. But you know, they try to get like more more out of you. And when you do have that set, and like you said, you can go back and be like, You know what, like, we'll do a little bit here. But that's really like a whole nother level of package or another level of work, project, whatever. Yeah, we can't really do that at this price point. And when you're able to come back and say that, because you've built those expectations, that's that's so much more important than what I even said before that like, that's a really good point, Chris.
34:21
Thanks. Yeah, like doing whenever starting on a new project, we get very clear on the problem that we're solving the outcome that we want to achieve, and then we provide the solution. So now at any point, when someone says, Hey, we want to do this, we want to do that. It's like, we can come back and say, Okay, well, does that actually help us with the problem? Does it get that desired outcome? And then does it currently fit in the solution we're providing if no for those and we need to look at adding scope, right and actually like budgeting for this, and it makes it a lot easier for them to realize like oh, yeah, maybe we do just wait on this. Like I see your point.
34:54
No, no. Yes. Good stuff. Oh, yeah.
34:59
Awesome. Alright, Dan, let's move into the final three questions here. The first being, what book? Do you think everyone should read?
35:10
Oh, man.
35:13
Yeah, it's a loaded one for everybody.
35:15
What books should everyone read? Well, the one that I think I've had on my I just got it recently, but I've been reading it is I forgot the name of the Happiness Equation is that now I don't know it's mo got out or got out. I always say his name Ron. Mo got out I think is how you pronounce his name. But it's it's a book on happiness. And it's, he's just a very intelligent individual. And it works really well. For people that I think dwell on negativity, which is me, like, I sound like I'm probably happy go lucky. But I get I can very much get in a pocket of sad slash worry, and fatigue and so much stuff. And the book has a lot of principles in it that are just very common sense. Like, hey, if you're driving down the road, and somebody's flipping you off and throwing stuff out the window at you, which is just recently happened, my dad actually, you'll probably listen to this and get a chuckle out of that. But the it's a crazy story for a different time. But putting that in your pocket in and just saying, You know what, kind of back to my earlier point, something's going on with that guy. I'm going to count three things right now and saying them out loud three things that are that I'm grad grateful for. You know, I'm grateful that I have three healthy kids. I'm grateful I have great wife, I'm grateful that I'm healthy and have a nice house. And you know, like, it reframes everything. So that whole book around that is a really cool book that I'm reading right now, but best I got for it.
36:54
I mean, check that out. caught me off guard. That's great. No other guests is brought that one up yet to the for actually, I think number of interviews we're currently at, like 70 Something we're into. Yeah, first of all, I'm
37:08
gonna look it up and see. So yeah, the happiness security. Alright, anyway, got
37:14
it. It'll be in the show notes. What is next for you professionally.
37:22
So like I mentioned earlier, flips, which is a financial generation machine. For me, it's not the it's not designed to be a long term thing. Actually, I didn't even know that I'd still be doing it in 12 years, to be honest with you. And I'm not getting done, you know, we're blowing it, we finally hit our stride and just the last couple of years. So certainly not done with this. But definitely pivoting and looking for other investment opportunities and cash flow things and, and other things to scratch my itch. Ironically, one thing I'm going to do this kind of personal and professional, and probably going to start next early next year is getting metal detector and go out and have my own YouTube channel of just metal detection, I think it'd be the most fascinating thing for myself, like, I would love it. I could do it all day. And I think videoing it and making it into like a show of sorts. I think people would watch it just to see what I find. If they do it or don't I don't care if I monetize it someday great. But it could be professional for me to answer your question. But if nothing else, it's something I just think it's highly intriguing.
38:33
When there's something fun about taking a hobby, and just creating content around it ready to go, and people kind of follow along. I was really so I'm in the Army Reserve right now. And I had one master sergeant. He lives out in the woods in New Hampshire. And he talks like he lives out in the woods in New Hampshire. He's a truck driver, like and it just the funniest guy that you will ever talk to because of some of the things he says, Man, you just need to do a YouTube channel on trapping. And just like, yeah, go set your traps out, go look for animals, but just talk while you're going out there. And like people will love it. Oh my God, I don't know that people realize how great that content can be. Yeah, it's everything
39:11
right? Like any I mean, almost everything, like anything that you're really interested in. If it really is something you're enjoying and doing and you can capture that as content and then create a channel. I mean, you'll make money off of it sometimes. Because
39:26
yeah, other people are probably interested in it. And then or there's people like me that just like seeing someone so interested in what they're doing. They are going to watch it and like your it just becomes engaging. Yeah. Well,
39:38
we talked about this. Yeah, we talked about earlier. It's, you know, monetizing your passion is a big thing. It was one of the first things you brought up on this conversation today. And I didn't really say it at the time, but I was thinking it and it's as simple as this like, in this day and age because of the internet. You can make money on anything. Like you can literally start it You know, if you if you love peanut butter, you could start your own peanut butter channel and all things peanut butter. And then you get sponsorships. And then you know, like, you would make $100,000 a year, just talking about peanut butter if that's really what you love to do, or candles, and I got this pumpkin spice candle right here. Like I could make a channel just smelling candles, kinda like the kid that opened the boxes, right? Like the toys and stuff, you know, billionaire now or whatever you can you can make money on anything. It's just comes down to creating good content around it. And, you know, that's a whole nother agency kind of thing. But yeah.
40:39
Yep. All right. Last question. Where can people find you?
40:45
So I'm doing a not very good job of growing my personal brand. I'm just going to be honest, I don't put the time into it that I should because I'm doing too much other stuff. But I am trying to build it. And if you want to follow me on there, you can do it at pretty much everywhere. Dan Peterson official. There's a lot of Dan Peterson's it's not a very catchy or unique name. I feel Yeah. Yeah. So Dan Peterson official is kind of everything. It's usually got a pink logo, which is kind of a nod to the fact that I have three daughters. And, and nobody uses that color, especially mostly men. So so I'm trying to be unique in that regard. For the business, which is a little more important. You can find us at flip switch social media. Everywhere you like or flip switch consulting group to the same company to different brands. Long story, but we're orange and blue. If you find a flip switch that's orange and blue. That's us like this right here. I just realized that I pointed my shirt you can see if they can't see it. Anyway. That's
41:49
fine. You can imagine it it's fast. Right? Good enough. Yeah. Hey, thanks for joining. Great conversation. You excited for this one to go live?
41:57
Yeah, there's a lot of fun. Thanks a lot, Chris.
42:02
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