Those aren't NBA players, just a bunch of nerdy developers

We dive into NullStar 2024, the ultimate basketball showdown between Team Laravel and the Terminal Boys. We share our admiration for Caleb Porzio (who’s definitely on Team Laravel!). Plus, we explore staying productive in development, Andy's ambitious idea to track all Laravel events, and Dalton's latest package release—Remote Models.

If you're at Laracon this week, "yo dude" me!

Show Links:
NullStar 2024
Caleb Prozio crossed $1m on GitHub Sponsorships
Dalton's package, Remote Models
Mostly Technical Ep. 48
The Laravel Coffee Blend
Terminal Boys (terminal.shop)

Connect with us:
Andy Hinkle - X/@andyhnk
Dalton McCleery - X/@DaltonMcCleery

Creators & Guests

Host

Andy Hinkle

Laravel Developer, Father, Husband

Host

Dalton McCleery

Laravel Developer, Music Enthusiast

What is The Midwest Artisan?

The Midwest Artisan Podcast brings you insights and discussions on all things Laravel, with a healthy dose of general web development and tech talk. Join Andy Hinkle and Dalton McCleery, two passionate Laravel developers from the Midwest, as they share their expertise, explore the latest trends, and dive into the world of coding. Whether you're a seasoned developer or just getting started, this podcast offers something for everyone who loves tech and Laravel.

Connect with us:
Andy Hinkle - X/@andyhnk
Dalton McCleery - X/@DaltonMcCleery

Cover Art by Robert Wade (robertcreates.com)

Welcome to another episode of the Midwest Artisan and I'm your host and Hinkle and I'm your

co-host, Dalton McCleery

All right, so Dalton and how's your week?

Spin gets so far.

I can't really complain.

Been less busy, less hectic than the last time we've talked.

Been shipping away to some stuff that I don't really want to disclose at the moment, but

there's some things I've been working on that are pretty good.

We'll probably talk about in a couple weeks, perhaps.

Secret projects.

Secret projects.

What about you?

How's your week been?

It's been going good, man.

I let you know the secret projects.

Anytime we come up with ideas, that project X, remember that?

We don't know, or any of it's just project X.

I got that from Caleb.

It's Caleb Hadda.

Kind of same thing.

Like project X.

Cool.

Yeah, I think I went to the Alphabet at this point.

Yeah, just start from the beginning.

You know what?

X, Y and Z.

Yeah, man, it's been good.

Yeah, like actually similar to you, it's been kind of a slower week.

Just kind of leading up to Laracon, just unbelievably pumped for Laracon, just meeting

people.

And I was just listening to mostly technical and they were talking about how if this

Lericon is just different from any others than the amount of people you're looking to meet.

And that's honestly what I'm most excited about.

Yeah, I see the talks are great, but that's not what I'm excited for.

I'm excited just to meet people.

So it'll be really good.

You can let your little social butterfly out.

I'm sure next week it'll just be just Laracon just one topic right?

I'm sure I'll break it out.

Yeah, it'll be really good.

We're going to do a three hour episode next week after Laracon.

Do you just see the Nullstar basketball game?

I saw that.

I saw that you sent it to me, but I haven't looked into it.

I'm curious on what actually is going on.

I've seen Aaron Francis's tweet about it.

Yeah, so I'm going to make sure I get this right.

So we have Lericon going in Dallas the Monday, the day before, so Tuesday, Wednesdays, the

Laracon event, Monday, they're going to, uh, Sentry is putting on an event, Sentry.io

, putting on an event called Nullstar 2024, which is like, I get the time, you know, to

basketball.

If you like 80 sports, like all star, you know, for Dallas.

Yeah.

And my favorite thing is the logo.

I didn't notice this.

I was looking at it just a few minutes ago.

The logo is a programmer sitting down coding when it's like, it should, but at first, I'd

even look at it at those in NBA logo.

And then if you actually look at it, it's this programmer sitting down coding.

No way.

No way.

I just see that just now.

Yeah, because you were so accustomed to like seeing this kind of stuff in the NBA logo.

That's hilarious.

So what it is is it's a terminal dot shop, which is like an online coffee shop.

It's built by a bunch of big influencers, like Primegin is one, Adam is another.

He's like a big, he's like a big YouTuber guy.

Larval just hired the, the director of design.

I think his name is David David something, but he's, uh, he's on this.

Uh, actually, I'm kind of curious, but he's going to be on, but, or if he's flying, but

there's this terminal dot shop.

So they're challenging the Larval.

And so the, uh, they're going to do a manning cast, which if you're into football, uh, uh,

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning, a big, too big football guys, they, uh, on Monday nights,

they, uh, you know, usually have the regular commentators on ESPN.

But if you flip to ESPN, too, that's where the world show is.

And you get what's called Manning cast.

And that's where these two brothers Eli and Peyton, they've been doing football.

It's more of a casual thing.

They're not, they're not following every play.

They'll just be talking about their stories or background.

But so that's what Wes Boss and Scott, um, Tolinsky is doing from, uh, the show, uh, uh, uh,

syntax syntax FM podcast.

So, um, they're going to be commentating the game and it was going to be really interesting.

So I, I know Taylor is really big in the basketball.

And so, um, yeah, Aaron is the, I know Aaron is the coach.

I don't, I'm pretty sure it's the team of Larval.

So I, I hope this is live stream.

I saw something, but everywhere I look, I don't see anything it mentioned, but I swear I saw

something.

Well, they're talking about this Manning cast thing.

I'm like, well, are we going to have like a, I'm sure it'll be recorded because it should

be.

I'm going to be at the airport when all this is happening.

I wish I was there.

And so I was like, man, I really thought about changing my flights just for this.

I was just like, yeah, do it.

Try to get there in the morning.

I want you to be there so you can FaceTime me so I can also watch.

Just hold me over whatever, whatever's going on.

Just hold me up there.

There's like 90 people apparently going to this thing every Sunday of it list.

So can you imagine just a, you know, a pedestrian or just some random person trying to buy a

Dallas.

You probably think it's the Dallas Mavericks or someone popular.

It's over the blade.

Massive.

Well, just a bunch of nerdy developers who shoot and hoops.

Yeah, man, I'm kind of surprised in not doing stuff like some sort of like rocket league

competition of like a 2v2 tournament style.

Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, it reminds me when you mentioned that reminds me of in New York,

they had the guy from Stadamick, John Blank, but the main guy from Stadamick, he brought

like a big like a actual big television and the super Nintendo and he like sent up at

this for the Stadamick booth.

Yeah, well, it was like a street fighter.

That at least that's what I played.

Okay.

Yeah, and they had a booth out here and you got the Stadamick booth and you go play street fighter

on the super Nintendo.

So that's what we need to do.

Andy, we need to get a booth next year at Lericon, bring a TV and like an Xbox or something,

couple controllers.

Just have fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

If we brought an Xbox because in New York it was the PlayStation Theater, I think we would

have been like a booth out.

A booth out.

Yeah, they did have a bunch of PlayStation set up.

I think they're playing Rocket League.

I don't know.

I just remember walking by and I saw somebody playing on PlayStation and look again and it's

Taylor.

Hey, everyone's all talking and then Taylor's all alone and I'm playing PlayStation.

So, I was like, oh, okay.

And that's the developer mindset right there.

Yeah.

In a nutshell.

That's it'll be, it'll be really good.

I hope it's live stream.

And so do you know much about the terminal, the terminal boys?

I talked a little bit about them, but did you see their Leravell flavor coffee?

Are you a coffee guy?

I don't know.

No.

I only drink water and if I'm feeling extra spicy on a weekend, I might have like a liquid

death, which is just sparkling water.

You introduced me to drink with that Leracon.

Yeah, I have a case of it.

Yeah, all this time.

I thought that was just some like really strong beer or something like an IPA or something.

And you're like, you got to try it.

Just water.

No, it's insane.

You like insanely good.

Yeah, I'm not a coffee guy.

I've seen the tweet of the artist and blend.

Yeah, but I don't know much about blends though.

Like I'm curious on what people, I'm curious on how many people buy it actually.

Yeah, I'm curious too.

I'm a big coffee guy, but like I'm only like dark roast.

I don't really know what kind of the American way.

I think it's kind of a dark roast, but American, they love a lot of chocolate sugar in their

coffee.

So this kind of has it says it has rich creamy caramel.

But so for the listener, the terminal, terminal shop, they announced a artisan coffee brew and

it's like Lerival theme.

And like on the packaging, I'm reading, I'm looking at the back of the screenshot and it's

a, it says PHP, artisan make model coffee.

And it has like a variable blend description.

And the thing that just the marketing, just all everything that went into this is care

fully done it done an amazing way.

So I would do these mostly because you did free shipping, free shipping for $40 and so

I was like, okay, I'll just order two.

Why not?

So I'm excited.

I'll give you the review when it comes in.

So yeah, yeah.

That was the first time I ordered something on the terminal.

It was quite the experience.

Yeah, I'm on their website now.

I mean, it's asking me for my email, but this is, this is really well.

They have, they have a website.

I clicked on their Twitter profile and it goes to, I mean, literally terminal.shop is

the, their website.

It's very clever.

You know, read me a fact section.

It's all like set up like an ID.

I'd even know that you could actually interact on here.

So I, I just always know that's what you type is SSH terminal shop and that's how you

do it.

So you check out.

So this is very clever.

I like this.

Yeah, I don't like coffee.

I like this a lot.

Yeah, make sure you want to try it, right?

Try some different blends.

Does your wife like coffee?

She, um, my wife is a strictly cold brew like homemade cold.

Okay.

She does her own stuff.

She'll probably like a medium, she'll like a medium roast then.

So you can get her some honors and the, the, the blended, the artisan blend is a medium

roast.

So you can get her some of that.

Usually cold brew is kind of like a traditionally.

It really depends on the person, but traditionally go with the medium or lighter roast.

So maybe I'm sure that conversation with my, uh, as, as Robert Wade, the guy who made

our podcast start would say my C, CFO, my wife, my CFO, uh, I'm sure she would love if

I've spent $40 on a developer branded coffee for her.

Like, look, honey, I bought you, uh, some artisan coffee and she'd be like, get this out

of here.

Christmas is coming soon.

You'll, you'll get more.

Yeah.

I set up a subscription, honey.

It's great.

$40 every month.

Drink your coffee.

So yeah, to be clear, this 40, it was like 44 for two, which was it, it's not too bad for

coffee for like, or for two packages, which for premium coffee is not too terrible.

So it's good.

All right.

Yeah.

But just not a big coffee guy.

So I'm, I'm curious on, on your takes being a coffee guy.

If it is actually good, I can, yeah, I'll let you know, well, may I have a show topic next

time?

So we're when it comes in.

So yeah, I'll let you know if it's good enough.

You got to stockpile it.

That's the thing that sticks.

Coffee goes bad so fast.

Once it's in, you got to start using it.

You know what doesn't go bad?

Water.

Or liquid death.

Uh, yeah.

Water just didn't do.

But the, I mean, speaking of just like stockpiling stuff, uh, and, and since we're on the topic

of Twitter, I recently saw that, uh, Caleb Orzio tweeted that he crossed a million dollars

in GitHub sponsors.

Did you see this?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Insane.

And the way that he wrote that blog post was so carefully done.

And I love it.

Just like how he broke it out.

And, um, kind of his journey to get there.

I was kind of neat.

Yes.

It was, it's really good.

He's got a lot of really good like insights of like what he did and in what order.

I'm subscribed to his, uh, his newsletter thing, which he doesn't really send out a whole

lot.

Um, maybe I think I've just in like the live wire bucket because I'm, I'm a big live

wire fan.

But I was, it was real weird because one of his things was that his, you know, you need

to build your email list is like the second most valuable thing you could have.

And I think I've gotten like four emails from him in the year that I've been subscribed

to that newsletter, which is odd because I haven't bought, I haven't bought anything from

him.

It's just, it's, he does some weird stuff with his email list and I kind of like it because

it's not like every week I get some half baked AI written email about, hey, sign up and

spend $5 here.

It's been $5 there.

Like a lot of these other newsletter.

Most of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is really nice.

It's more, yeah, I like it because it's like the emails that you get are, you actually do

want to read.

And so, it's not like here's that, yeah, here's $25 off for, um, for this week or something,

you know, uh, yeah, it feels like Friday.

Don't send me that, you know, please.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It feels like it is like literally written by him, sent directly to me, not thousands

of other people.

Yeah.

Which Caleb, if you are listening, thank you for that email that you sent directly and only

to me because because we're friends.

Just kidding.

Yeah.

So he, this started five years ago, right?

So five years, five years for a million.

Is that, is that what was you ready?

Yeah.

Five, five years, he left his job and started live wire.

Which is insane.

It is that it's been that long.

I remember starting to use live wire in, in 2020, like COVID had, COVID was hit and built

my first site with live wire in 2020.

Yeah.

I remember.

Yeah, that's it.

It's wild.

I know.

I can't believe it's been that long.

I remember, um, when they started no plans to merge their podcast before that, it was

20% time at Titan and that's when, that's when he made the change to leave his job.

And then that's when he started, he started talking to Daniel about building, Daniel Cooper

and about building live wire and just crazy what it's a amount to today and to sponsorships.

And, um, my favorite thing is how he didn't really get specific on one way of income.

He kind of talked about how you could spread your income in different routes and, um, one

of them was interesting.

He did get up sponsors, which is, um, he kind of came in at the perfect time to do it.

But he got screwed by GitHub.

I didn't realize that.

Did you read that part?

Yeah.

When they took out PayPal, the he lost like half his income.

Can you imagine like, yeah, 50 K like, oh, I just lost 50 K this year.

Uh, um, yeah.

I can't imagine being like, uh, hey, sweetie, we're going to like, you know, starting next

month, we're going to have half our income like no.

So, uh, that's wild.

This is what blog posts is insanity.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And I know he's really good with money and financial.

So I'm sure it's like, it was end of being okay for him and obviously having just kind of

a pivot.

And that's what he did.

And it sounds like he's going to continue doing that with flux of going to pivot to another

avenue of income.

So it'll be really good for him.

I love it.

I'm excited for him.

Yeah.

That might be the one thing that he does give me the buy so far.

So far, I've, I've profited off of Caleb Borzio's great work without having to pay him.

And I think it's about time that I probably should.

Yeah.

I was actually just thinking about that today.

I don't, that's telling me we're like the same person sometimes.

I was, because when you posted this, I went to his GitHub page and I was looking to see

how many sponsors he had.

I was like, 35.

What in the world, dude?

That's hilarious that we went on.

I was just kind of curious how many sponsors he had because the whole people, I'll do blog

closing.

I wonder how many, you know, he still has going.

Yeah.

I mean, and to that point, it's wild that he, he did all this five years ago and he's still

like self-employed and he put some good stuff in there about, you know, since you're self-employed,

you have the freedom to just, you know, screw around all day and not tell anybody where

you're going or take a walk or something of that nature.

And I'm curious for you, Andy, on like, on a particularly like hard day or a hard week,

like what is it that really just like keeps you productive?

You know what I mean?

Like, do you go take a walk?

You've got a nice like little community path you can walk.

I live downtown and that's sort of what I've been getting into, especially now that, you

know, this Midwest, whether it got down to like 70 yesterday, I was like, this is nice.

I am going to go take a walk and I took like a 30 minute walk downtown.

It was wonderful.

Oh, yeah.

And then I came home and coated into like 10 p.m.

On that secret project that I've been telling you about.

It was really refreshing.

I'm curious what are your habits.

Yeah, that's awesome.

So do you have like a destination you go to or do you just go out and walk just a lap?

Yeah.

Ironically, me and my wife were joking.

My wife went with me.

We were joking that we just, we sort of have this path that we go every time.

We don't really have to say, hey, you know, where we're going.

We just know.

We leave the apartment and we know where we're going.

We know what street we turn on and then we know what street we turn to get back.

It's about 30 to 40 minute walk and it's usually the same path every time.

We're riding the Ohio River.

So we'll walk the Ohio River.

It's really nice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Get the breeze off the river.

That's good.

That's good.

Yeah.

I definitely do.

I do a lot of locks, especially in the summertime.

I am kind of a hermit in the wintertime.

It fits below 40.

I just don't go outside unless I'm required.

And so, but yeah, to for as far as productivity, there's been many times where I will kind

of like a clouded mind, kind of similar right now.

I feel like I feel like there's just a, I've been trying to figure out what I'm going to

do for us the week before Larry Connbos.

I don't want to start on something too big because I don't want to get in that technical

headspace of getting there.

Then it goes into next week, you know.

But yeah, so you answer a question.

The technical parts definitely do come when I'm challenged either through code means or

just through trying to explain a technical concept to a client, have how to best approach

that going into a meeting to take a walk.

It's amazing.

Like, sometimes it doesn't come to you on your walk, but where even if it's just walking

across your house or just going, take a, I do this often.

Just go out in your back patio and just kind of stay in there for a minute, browse

later, just take a break, you know, and take your mind off of just to get your mind off

the screen because the moment I come back and just like, oh, yeah, that's how I wanted

to do it.

Just a simple walk or taking a break.

So yeah, I do a lot to watch.

There's some days like you talk about, you talk about Caleb, just go out and take a walk.

Yeah, we, we're very lucky in the work either where we are.

If I, if I needed to just take a minute walk, nobody cares, I mean, like, you know, they'll

see when you get back, right?

Or if you needed just to, if you had an appointment or something, where, you know, our work place

is really nice, but there are some other ones.

It's just like, you know, like coming into an office, it's just like people watch you leave

and people are like, oh, must be nice.

They've been got all, you know, or something.

It just, just causes for drama.

It just, we're having that remote life of having a balance.

It's kind of, it is really nice.

Way don't feel as guilty.

And I'm not saying that, you know, not saying that work doesn't happen because it definitely

does.

I feel like I'm way more productive working a route than I would be in an office.

But, but at the same time, it's just for your creative mindset, walking is amazing.

Nothing said I'll do that and working out.

I've been trying to do more of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And going, just going to a gym and, um, especially if you can in the morning, I, I cannot

do that right now.

But if you can do it, start off your day.

Man, it's like, uh, either not or run.

It's like, you just like, you feel like you fly through work things just, it's like, come

to you.

It's great.

Okay.

Well, then I might have to start doing that because I'm a notorious, uh, heavy and late

sleeper.

Like I, I clock in at work at seven a.m.

But some days I, it might be like seven or five because I haven't gotten out of my bed

at seven yet because I'm just, I'm a lazy garbage person that day and I just don't

want to do anything.

Um, no, I usually take my walks in the afternoon.

I'm sort of like an afternoon guy after a terrible morning burst.

That's all I can do right now because, uh, I don't even set an alarm clock.

I have a human alarm clock in the form of a year and a half year old boy.

And it's pretty prompt, usually about five, thirty.

And so I, if you get up any earlier than five, five, thirty, you're, you're insane.

So, um, like if, you know, I don't know how those people do it.

I hear those people, like, they get up at three, three a.m.

every day or four a.m.

every day and get all their stuff done and just like, do you guys go to sleep at like six

or seven?

I mean, good.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So the sun's not even gone down yet.

You guys are right.

My main thing that I try to do is start the day out on the right foot.

If that's either a walk or just spending some time outside with my kiddo before he goes

to daycare or just what it is.

So I think if you, if you come in and just roll out of bed and start your day without trying

to at least get some vitamin D or just trying to break it up a little bit, it's, it's really

hard to get the, get the ball rolling.

Whoopsie.

All right.

Well, I might have to look at my lifestyle then.

I'm, I'm definitely just a night out.

There's nothing wrong with that either.

I think Daniel Coborne, he like, uh, he codes out like three in the morning with his clients

because they're all in like, or not all of them, but he has some clients that are in Europe

or other places where it's, yeah, it's like morning for them, but really, yeah, that all

works out.

It just, uh, as long as it, all that, what matters is it works for you and if you're not feeling

exhausted, we're, you know, anything like that all the time.

Maybe you may want to switch that.

That's true.

At least take a break.

Everybody deserves at least a break.

Not, not your lunch break, just like an actual break.

Take 15 minutes.

Yeah.

One thing I've been trying to get better at is take like a complete day without looking, without

touching on computer and I've been trying it so hard.

It's like, oh, I need to do this one thing that takes me 10 minutes, but, or, you know, I'm

trying to, I need to help, help something in a pop open Photoshop for a second.

It just, but just try to, try to make that routine of just a whole day of no computer.

Yeah.

That, that one's hard.

That, that day for me though is Sunday.

I've, I've dedicated Sunday to, I'm not going to do any, any programming stuff like that.

The project X that I've been working on has filled up my nights and some of my Saturdays,

but I've committed to not, not doing them on Sunday.

Yeah.

Hello, I love that you're here on the project X train now with, I'm just going to call it.

I'm just going to call it.

So, project X and I need to check to see if that domain name's even available.

Oh, I'm sure it's, that's an ode by Elon Musk and Ling Musk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a kind of a continuation from our Flarecon ideas talk of what we thought might be

bringing into coming to the, Flarecon and something I've been working on for, for months now

of just actually monitoring, monitoring what happens in your application.

So curious to get you to take care.

Is this your project X?

Are you going to unveil this project X?

This is my project X.

Kind of been a little public about it, but if somebody, I'm just to the point now, if somebody

builds it, I would pay for it.

And so, uh, challenge accepted.

I want to build it because it's fun to build, but here's, here's the dream, right?

You compose or install a package and with some minimal configuration, I want to be able

to compose or install a package type in API key and then your analytics start popping

up on all events in Laravel just that it's by my default, the all events are track.

These are events like authenticated logins.

These are all, which right now these are things included into the framework.

You authenticate if there's a failed log in, uh, if people are throttled, that's actually

what kind of originated this is just understanding how many people are getting throttled by logins

or API usage.

And so, um, I had a client that we ran into, they were making too many requests on the app.

They wanted to know a metric of the volume of how many users like this is happening to.

And I was just, uh, yeah, I don't have that information.

And I hate that feeling.

Um, and there's always kind of a weird request like that of you want to have that data

available and it's not, but I feel like something like that should be tracked in some,

like just by default, Laravel, right?

And so they have all these events.

We just have to handle them.

Uh, I want to get down to even like the request, uh, monitoring all the requests that of a traffic

and not understanding their average latency.

Just really deep granular information.

The, the problem I have is there's not a clear finish line in the software of, because

it just, it's one of those things where there's so many bells and whistles you can do.

But I, I think by, um, by at least starting out, just log all air of events and then

um, have some way to log custom events.

So right now I monitor a lot of them using pulse and, uh, I, I've been doing that for a while.

And I found that pulse is great, but like, I, I feel like I need just a little bit more

out of it.

And where, where I came into doing my own is where I needed to do a custom metric and pulse.

If you've ever set up polls and looked at how they do their, uh, their Q metrics out when

you, when you install, polls, they have like that key metric of all your cues and how many

jobs are running on them.

Uh, they'll have like a graph, like a line graph.

I was like, I would, I, that's what I need.

I'd love to set that up.

And I looked at the code and the line graph is just like, um, it's all manually done.

You have to do it by hand.

In Alpine, live, in live, which is great.

But like, it's not like, uh, it's not a component that's baked in.

It's not like a, you know, you can just give it some data.

Here's your line chart.

You have to do all by hand.

I was like, man, I, I just wish there was something because I spent a lot of time on that.

And I, uh, and I have a lot of different possible, like, you know, data points and graphs and

it's a graph.

So after creating a customer live, our component that extracts that extends this and it's like,

yeah, it feels kind of dirty.

I wish there was just something like, I wanted this to be a line chart.

Like it, have a drop down of, like, just a number or a line chart or a pie chart, you

know, just have a drop down.

What do you want it to be?

And it just works.

And so, um, I don't like that.

And that's, right.

Right.

Filament does their charts.

They're charts, right?

Yeah.

But filaments more of model based and all that, which you can do with that.

But that's, yeah, if you log all, if you log every H2TP request to the database, you're

asking for trouble.

That's where that's, that's essential.

What?

And I'm not logging into the database.

Right now we're logging everything to CloudWatch.

And so AWS CloudWatch and I'm running on paper.

So it works pretty well.

But you have to do it like, uh, vapors opinionated way, which I love.

But if you want to extend it, then you're on your own and it gets kind of messy.

For example, on CloudWatch, there's log groups and then log streams.

I would love to have like a log stream for like, for log insin, and then another one for

fail log and subtle like individually.

But right now it's all like, it's all together.

It's all split by, I think it's by hour by day, but everything's all like one giant log.

And so we have, we have it, dashboard like for that setup, it works great.

But it took me a long time to get there.

I would, I would love just to have like a really clean and also AWS, the navigation UI, it's

all horrendous.

I would love to have a really clean look in like charts.

Like, I basically want the, the polls looking charts that are, yeah, click, click to configure.

It's really simple.

So I'm kind of going along on this, but yeah, I basically, I want to have a level, uh, I

want to be able to track everything that happens in layervel with events and understand

when they happen and even get down to customer events.

If I were to build this, I kind of wonder where I'm going with database.

I'm going to pick, uh, use CloudWatch.

Do I just, do I have all my customers and individual CloudWatch like groups or you should do a bunch

of SQL like databases.

So every client has like a collection of databases and each databases like specific to one, you

know, if it type like login attempts is its own just SQL like file tucked in some folder

that's identified by the user somewhere.

That yeah.

It's fine because SQL like, but like each, each file is like two terabytes or something

of whole log being right.

Right, right.

But so one thing I thought of was, um, just because I, I know it's been battle tested,

phantom analytics.

There, it's a layer of all app and they use single store, I think is the name of the database.

And so, um, that's just one thing.

If I were to build it, I might lean that way.

So, because we're talking.

I can't get a number of records.

Right now it's for one of the apps that it gets about 100 million requests a month and

we're logging every minutes about somewhere between 150 to 300 events every 60 seconds.

So yeah, this, that just for people logging in, people just do not ever in the app.

And so like I said, I, I would, if I had a service out there, pay, I don't know, it would

probably be by usage honestly, but pay 40, 50 bucks a month just for half a dashboard.

I would, client would easily pay for it.

I would know that things are getting log properly.

Um, yeah.

So curious what, so tell me why this is a bad idea.

First of all, like, I don't know if it's a bad idea.

It's just, it's, it's a good idea.

I'll, I'll tell you that.

It is a good idea.

I think you should build it.

It's just, it's weird because it is basically like a Google analytics, fat, the analytics

alternative, but instead of tracking user, user actions, you're tracking application actions.

Like what is the application doing in response to the user?

So you've got like Google analytics tracking, whatever the user's doing, you'll have whatever

you call this analytics tracking, whatever the applications reaction to those user events

are.

So I mean, it's, there's a, there's a little niche right there for you that I think you can,

you can fit in pretty nice.

I mean, Paul sort of does this, but it's not like, it's not as deep as what you were, you're

explaining you want it to do.

And you sort of want like a single source of truth dashboard.

Like, maybe I have three sites that I want to track all of all of these sort of analytics

for, or you know, a couple multi, or not multi a couple of microservices that are out

there hanging out, getting pelted with requests.

Like, I've, I've got a client now that I would, I would 100% use this for because their, their

data process is so heavy.

And if one thing goes wrong and in their chain, I get a very, it's not a nasty email, but

I get a very concerned email about, you know, this data, we send you this data and it's

not showing up on this site.

And then there's like five steps that it has to go through to get there.

And now I have to troubleshoot each of those steps one at a time.

Like, okay, where did it go wrong here, here, here, here.

If I had something like a dashboard, I could, I could, see, right, if I could just share

that dashboard with them, or, or easily decode, hey, you know, step three of this chain, it,

you know, in the S, CSV file, you sent it had, you know, an extra comma and it broke and

that's why it's not here.

Well, we'll need you to recent that CSV.

So I think there's, there's a good opportunity here for it, but I do think you're right that

starting to build this thing is going to be a huge headache because you're going to want

to over engineer it so easily, so fast because there's just, there's so many possibilities

you could do.

That's why I think it's a good idea is because you could see all of those possibilities.

It's just getting that version one's going to be, it's going to be hard, not like program

wise, but like mentally wise, it's going to be hard to get there to really.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then what scares me the most is like, even if I build this something like this up

and I feel really good about it, at the agency would probably use the heck out of it the most

before even before I even made a public, but the, then it's just like when we go larger scale

with that, you know, how, how fast that grows or what AWS costs are going to be in my charging

enough, what do I charge?

Oh, yeah, the whole what do I do that's, that's a great discussion for a, for another

day is how do I, how do I price something?

Yeah, there's people that do, that's all they do is just price software and it's, it's

so hard because you want to make sure that you're, you know, you're putting food on the

table, but also that you're, you're not going broke because your AWS bill is too high.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, again, I think this idea is great.

And I think you have a proven track record at the agency we worked at.

We built a security monitor.

It's not sort of like an event monitor, but it's a security monitor that you built for our

agency that we still, you know, it's what four years old and we still use it today.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that, that, that one in particular, it just gets your composer lock file and it

goes into the GitHub, the vulnerabilities API looks for any disc藍or disease and because

right now, which recently, GitHub just posted there, going to have a dashboard, but yeah,

right now, there's no, at an agency level, there's no way to see all errors, you know, are all,

of your vulnerabilities from a global level, so websites, you know, different frameworks

and it would.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'll see what comes out of this.

I think my, yeah, for my goal now is to, I'm trying, for all the things we're doing in

CloudWatch, I'm trying to do that one-to-one match, stop monitoring, match, compose, require.

And see what happens.

It just kind of monitor events and go from there, of just kind of battle test it just, right

now I'm just going to monitor monitor one of it.

I'm just going to do like the logged in event and, and just kind of, you know, start off small

and just continually add these events as gross.

So, once I get it to a good place, self, be able to talk more about it, come back and tell

you why this is a terrible idea.

And I've talked previously about this by this, I think this is kind of what Laroville's

been hinting at.

But I don't know, I feel like if it's, I don't think it's going to be at this Lyricon maybe,

but if it is, I'm going to be so happy.

I'm like, oh, I don't have to build this there.

They're doing it.

So, they announced it and it won't come out until the Australia Lyricon and then you'll

have time to build a competitor product.

Yeah, like one of the talks that kind of goes hand in hand with this monitoring idea

is Jess Archer.

She's doing a analytics on your database talk and so I'm like, I'm definitely going to be

ego.

I'll, I'll end on that to see what she has to talk about with that.

So, yeah, I'm kind of curious like at a, because that's one thing I've been wanting to monitor

all this time of just kind of seeing a chart.

It's, there's not easy way to do this with, you can do a filament, but it's, but there's

not like just the easy way right now, at least with databases to log into your database platform,

not like your admin panel, right?

Database platform without paying way out of some crazy amount and just like you click

users and it just shows you a chart over time of how many people, there's like the created

at column setting that up.

So, and I think that's kind of where her talk is going to go is these services or these

platforms.

So, I've kind of seen these analytics and tracking events.

Hopefully, we'll see.

But they, they said they've been cooking and I believe them.

They cooked last year and it sounds like they're going to, they're, they got quite a homemade

pie for us this year.

If you catch my cooking reference chip.

Hello, Matt.

Yeah.

So, speaking of outside services and communicating what happens, you, you have a package that came

out not too long ago called remote models and it was published in Larval News, so

congratulations.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

That's one of the packages on there.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

I asked them to do that.

I just submitted a link and said, will you publish this?

They did say yes, which, which, yeah, very glad that they did.

They did spark some good conversation on, they posted it on LinkedIn and I had quite a

few people comment about use cases for it.

So this was sort of my, my version of your monitoring idea.

Like I have, I have a couple of microservices that I want to, I want to pull all their data

into one place that way I can look at it all at once.

Like I might have some license keys for Project X over here and some license keys for Project

Y over here and instead of logging into each of their filament dashboards and, you know,

looking at analytics on two different sites, I sort of want to pull them together into

one place.

And so I had this idea of what if it's just, what if it's, what if it, instead of accessing

the database directly, what if it is just sort of like an API call and, and spoiler for

the listeners, I've already ran this idea by Andy probably four times and he was the

one who told me that accessing the database directly from, you know, a remote service probably

wasn't the best idea.

So I went with an API approach on it, but it's been pretty, pretty useful.

I've already installed it, well, looking at the analytics, it's been installed like 20

times and probably 19 of those have been me installing it on all of my other side projects

stuff to try to just to get that one source of truth.

Like I want to see the amount of users across, you know, maybe three websites and I want to

see the amount of license keys each of those users have across three websites, but I don't

want to have them all, I don't want to have them all sign up in one spot for, you know,

three different services that doesn't seem like great user experience for me.

Like, a sign up for project X, but we're going to redirect you to this other website where

you sign up and pay for it and then we'll redirect you back to the site that you wanted

to buy from just didn't seem great to me.

So it's like, I'll just, I'll just API call it, but if I have to do that, then I've got

to cache that API call and it's kind of a pain and shout out to Caleb Porzio yet again.

I swear I'm not a fan boy, but I kind of am.

So Caleb or the show, I love Caleb or is he cool dude.

We, I think you sent me this, the sushi package that he made, which is essentially just like

a model that has static data, but you could use eloquent on it.

And I was like, there's probably something here for external connections.

What if I don't know what the data is, but I wanted anyway and I want to be able to

query it in my application as if it was local.

So I basically just copy pasted that sushi package and started modifying it to be an API

endpoints that of static data that's defined in the model.

And it's, I don't know how much other people are using it.

It got like 20 some odd stars in like a week, which is 20 stars more than I've ever gotten

in my entire life.

I've been a developer for like seven, seven years.

That's way more stars than I have on anything.

So that's awesome dude.

I, I, I use the hell out of it.

I built it for a specific need and I took the, the advice from some other people and included

that's like just open source it.

I mean, somebody else may or may not ever use it, but I'm, I'm definitely using it at

least on four other projects right now, including that side project that I've been teasing

that I swear we'll have a payoff at someday, but today is not that day.

You don't get to pay off today.

I love that package.

So yeah, it's kind of one of those things to scratch your own it, right?

Like even if nobody uses the package, you'll still use it and if somebody else ends up

lacking it.

I've had a few packages, some of them at the agency even that like I built a connector

for Mingento just because I hated Mingento so much.

And I was just like, if no one uses this because we would have clients come to us and

say, hey, we want to use Mingento and really, hey, we'll use Laravel.

And so like, well, we're going to use Mingento.

It's kind of like, well, what's, what's kind of meet halfway there, right?

And so we built a package that now another agency, we kind of got out of the Mingento

work.

I think goodness, but what happened?

What happened was there's these other agencies are coming in and kind of doing something

we're doing and they were using the package.

I didn't realize they were using it until they started opening up like PRs and stuff.

Like, wow, this is great.

It's actually a real package.

So, but yeah, man, remote models.

Let me ask you.

So just kept wrap my head around it.

So you explain this really well.

But if I have, if I have two apps, right?

And I'm app, so licenses was an example.

Both apps have licenses, like have this licenses model.

And so I call this remote model, right?

How does the, like if I'm app one and app two, what, what's kind of your recommendations

for keeping those in sync like if I'm, so if I do like license, arrow name, right?

And then, then later, I decided an app two that I'm not going to have license or I'm not

going to have name there and I'm running migration and pulls it out.

Then over an app one, somebody loads that page and says, you know, undefined, name on,

null or whatever, or on that model object.

So just what are some of the like the best practices that kind of get out of or to run

with something like that?

Or do you just, you just have to know as a developer like, hey, I would just remember that

this is connected, right?

Right.

Well, the good thing is that since it's based on what sushi did, it's sort of like a, it's

almost like a local copy of the database.

It's like a snapshot of app two in app one.

So if you call app two, say, hey, give me all of your models as a remote model.

It essentially call that API, take all of that data and put it in an SQLite, you know,

database file on your sort of local machine and then you can query that database.

So if you make changes in app two, you know, it won't carry over immediately.

It's not like, it's not real time.

Okay.

So say you do remove name from app two, you're still going to have name in app one until the,

I have a config option where you can set your, your cache TPL.

So until that cache invalidates, you'll still have name on app one.

And when that cache invalidates and you call app two, say, hey, give me all your remote

models again, then you won't have name anymore.

So it's sort of, so it's kind of tricky on, on what it is.

It's basically just like a local copy of that local snapshot of that database model locally.

Yeah.

I guess I catch up on that.

So that's brilliant.

That's a good way of doing it.

And so yeah, I was confused as always.

Yeah.

So go ahead.

Now, I just think it was always like an API call each time.

And then if it's the same call, we just cache it where you just cache it.

But it's more unique than that actually brings down the database to your local.

So we're to your instance.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I use it.

I use it for licenses now.

I'll tell you that since the project decks I have is going to be paid.

It has to have licenses.

But the other thing that I really use it for that I really, really liked is using it for

a strike.

Like I use cashier and cashier obviously has the API calls you can make to get products and

prices.

But sometimes that's quite a heavy API call to make.

Someone's hitting your pricing page and you want to show all of your monthly prices and

all your yearly prices.

That's a decent API call.

And you may just straight up cache that response.

And that's fine.

But now that you have that sort of cached as an array, you can't really do anything with

that data.

You've got to like cast it to a collection and then use a wear clause or you know wear and

all stuff like that.

So if you use remote models, you could set up your own custom API, which I've done for

strike products.

And that way I can just call that API for strike products, cache them all locally and then

query them like an eloquent model.

Okay.

Give me the product name, yearly subscription.

Whatever.

Give me all the products that are reoccurring subscription models.

Give me all the products that don't have subscription models.

Give me the product that has price, you know, $5.

I can do all that and it's a whole lot faster than trying to mess with a custom cashier

API call.

Yeah.

And then it's so nice because you probably don't have to configure cashier too much on that

second app.

It just works.

Exactly.

I plan on publishing a couple more examples specific for that.

Here in the future.

Or another eight.

Or another podcast.

Or another podcast topic.

Yeah.

I'll see what I'm cooking stuff up now.

I'm using it in several projects now and I've already made a couple more smaller updates

of things that I found that I've broken.

But yeah, that's a good idea.

We're excited to hear more.

Yeah.

For me, I'm curious more of like if you have a table with like a hundred thousand rows

or something or a record.

So about how you like to handle that.

But yeah, I'd be kind of I would be very curious here like here as you kind of navigate

through trying to connect it all.

So yeah, be good.

Yeah.

Good content.

Sure.

Hey, I'll add it.

I'll add it to our little list here.

That's basically what I've been working on all night last night actually was was setting up

that strike products stuff.

It's why it's more fresh in my mind.

Yeah.

And I mean, speaking of setting up like project X stuff, the last thing that I ran into that

was I've I've ran into it and I spent probably days trying to Google search the best way to

do it.

And I just I can't figure it out.

And probably because it's not a good idea and people are like this is dumb.

You probably shouldn't do this.

And if you are one of those people listening, I'm sorry.

I just I have a very niche use case for it.

And that's a dynamic traits.

Have you ever heard of trying to dynamically add a trait to a class or a model at runtime?

So a conditional trait.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think you know, PHP doesn't offer that right.

So like, imagine you class drop in it.

If this else use this, right.

You can't just drop it halfway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like a user level like hey, is this user able to do this thing?

Okay, I want you to load this trait with all of these model or methods and models in it.

Or if they're not say they're not subscribed, I want to load this trait with all of these

methods and models in it.

It's not like a normal thing you probably should be doing, but I had a very niche use case

for like I need the I need to dynamically load either that trait or this trait.

Just based on.

What can fig value?

So do you have like a good example of this like where or this might be a scenario because

I feel like a lot of these we know with user like the user, like a user's now, you would

just do a nullable on the table, right.

And it doesn't matter if they're there or not, but it sounds like you might be calling

some third party services or something like that, right?

Yeah, without with that given too much of it away, I have the project decks that I'm

working on has I like the way that Laravel is sort of like this very fast, very lean thing

where I don't really have to configure a whole lot of things.

So I want to try to keep that spirit in the package that I'm building in that if the

user has a particular composer package installed on their application, I want to load that

packages, tricked.

And if they have a different composer package installed on their application, I want to

load that trait.

If that makes sense, I want to basically see if they have this package and if they do,

then I want to load that trait.

If they don't, then I'm not going to load that trait.

If that makes sense.

What do they have both like if they?

Well, there is hierarchy that I have to find a hierarchy of hey, load this one over that

one, but yeah, it's sort of like like that.

If that's a wonder, yeah, it does.

So I think could you do like like your own trait and then just do like a just bit ball

in here, but just something like in your constructor where you set it up, you just check if these,

if this class exists, like just hey, if this class exists, then you, well, then you'd have

to do that.

You'd have to somebody tell you'd have to bring in that use statement.

It's like, where I wonder if that at that point, do you do new factory or like user factory

or something like you, you knew up a new factory and then inside that factory class and then

that's where you use the trait.

Yeah, it gets real confusing and I bash my head up against it for days.

And I think I sent you a couple ideas.

I was like, can I, you know, is there a way to like take the user model, for instance, and

in the service provider, you know, before the application is like booted up, you know, booting?

I put my conditional there and then sort of have a way to create a new class that extends

the user class, but adds my trait on top of it.

So it's sort of like a pseudo class or, you know, a reference class.

And that didn't work.

That was a really bad idea on my part.

Ironically, the use case that I came up with this for was I have a couple other packages

that I'm using to build project X like a license package that manages my licenses.

Whenever I install that package, I don't want it to require remote models, my remote

models package.

But if that, if my remote model package is installed, then I want to use the trait for

it so I can set it up to be used as a remote model if that makes sense.

Instead of figuring it in it every single time on every single application, I just want

to, is, is that package installed?

Yes, set it up.

If it's not, then don't even worry about setting any of that config up.

Right.

Yeah.

That's when there's just a lot of opinions I can grow around that too, because then it's

like separation of concern opinions of, of knowing of one old, obviously the separation

concerns.

When you open up the user model, knowing how it works, there's nothing I hate more than

an app than when I get into, I open up a user model.

It's doing something weird.

I spend an hour debugging it, it can figure it out.

Then there's like an observer just hanging out like in the app service provider somewhere,

where, because the last place I'm going to go looking is to see what's happening as an

app server provider after.

It's going to take me an hour to figure out.

Maybe I should probably look there because, yeah, with the other ways you do a trade or something

like, "Okay, I see how this is interacting."

Nowadays, you can put above that, what's that called?

It's like a PHP attribute.

The notation attribute above plus, and that's how we do all of our servers now.

That way, it's clear to all other developers.

There's an observer here.

You don't have to go hunting for it.

So, yeah, just kind of separating those out, making sure it's clear.

It's defined of like, "Here's what's happening in the model.

In case you're trying to look into something."

Yeah, it's very niche and it's probably very bad.

There's probably not a use case for it other than inside my head.

But the way I ended up doing it was, it's very stupid.

So if you're listening to this, I'm sorry.

If you made it this far, sweet.

Thanks.

But this is about to get really dumb.

What I basically did was I made a trait that will have a conditional in that traits class

before the class declaration.

Before it says, "Treat class name."

I'll put an if statement.

If the config value is this, then I write my trait class definition.

Then I could put an else statement after that.

Then I could put a different trait class definition.

Like if remote models is installed, trait new, trait one, open brackets, my logic, close

brackets, else if that package isn't installed, trait two, open brackets, my logic, close brackets.

It's basically a trait that calls a conditional that will then conditionally load another trait.

It's like a trait including another trait.

That way it's real clean.

I include one trait, say a dynamic trait, and then it could then go out and load another

trait for me.

Yeah.

I like that.

I like it.

Like just what you're explaining it and reading it, it makes sense to me.

I think that's all it matters.

As long as it works, it's developer and it reads clean to me.

I was talking about the factory method that might, I'm going to have to go through a rabbit

hole, but like, okay, he has a factory here, like a factory repository.

And then it's going to do a conditional check if this is installed, then if it's not, or

then it is, do a trait.

So I like how clean you're explaining.

I think you just have to be careful, which you can always do with this with the test, I guess,

but if they're both installed, then if you have a trait that's named the same, they can

be like, you can get the redefining error of like, hey, we're trying to put it in the

straight, but it's already defined, you know, so.

Yeah, bingo.

So I mean, so it's really good.

Probably not it, it's probably not a use case for like 99.9% of people for good reason,

because when I googled search, just nothing came up and people were like, yeah, you probably

shouldn't do this.

It's like, but I want to make it super easy for myself to just curious stuff.

I'm sure you shot through here.

What did a chat GPT or chat, chat, jippity as Prometheus says.

So what did, what did, what did it give you?

Anything good?

Or did it just shoot out some crap?

I have no option.

I can ask it.

I'm curious.

It would probably just shoot you something.

It probably, probably something that doesn't even exist, but yeah, just not saying AI solution,

but just like stuff like this, I'm like, since people don't do this, I'm like, I'm

wondering what it was come up with.

Yeah, this, this is just telling me, okay, yeah, this is giving me a couple options.

So it's basically, you have to define a use method.

And it was like, hey, you know, do basically do an anonymous class, like new class extends

whatever class that you have that has the trait installed or that doesn't have the trait

installed.

And you can install a trait in that anonymous class that extends the class you want it to

add to.

The second one is a factory, factory pattern.

Okay.

I mentioned.

The other one is an interface.

Yeah.

I know if I got this request from a client, which I kind of the same thing with you, I'd

be like, this is a mess, but I would probably reach for the factory pattern just because

that's, I feel like somebody else, but the way you have it written, like, you know, the way

I've explained, it's clean and I like it.

So I don't know.

I feel like if I were to see this in a, in a PR or something, I'd approve it.

Yeah.

Okay.

As long as there's a test for all cases, man, it's clean.

I understand what's happening.

That's a lot of matters, right?

So I do have a test for it.

I'm glad I got your, your seal of approval.

Basically, like, yeah, I mock like the composer, you know, you do the install versions or whatever

composer thing you can, you can mock that at a global level.

So hey, what's this package installed?

Yes.

Okay.

Then I can assert that this trait has these methods or that this class now has the methods

from this trait.

And if it doesn't, then it should have the methods from that trait.

So I've got a test case for that.

But I mean, it looks nasty.

My ID complains constantly about it because it, you know, it's, you're, you're, you're

sent you to be so clear and freaks out.

Yeah.

You're declaring the same class twice in one file, but it's only going to get instigated

once, you know, when that runtime and whatnot.

But yeah, it's super niche.

But it's solved the headache that I had of trying to have like a replicable remote

model installation on all of my like microservices.

So now I can just pull them all into one monolithic app and have all of my licenses displayed

for me.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

So I like it.

I give the, I would give the LG, what's it?

Looks good to me.

LG TLFG.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

The poor class like looks good to me and approved.

So yeah.

Cool.

I don't know if I'll make that a package or not.

It seems, seems to me.

Oh man.

I imagine people for it.

Oh.

Yeah.

I'm sure there'll be.

I talked about a one show one point in time.

Just when you anytime you put a package on Reddit and just constantly watching the comments.

Yes.

Just because some moderator on Reddit on the level subreddit.

And which I hate that by the way, it's just like the more the longer the more I do it,

the more I hate it.

And so and I hated it from the start.

But just people are just unbelievably toxic, especially when they can have a a user name.

I think Ian Lansman is like butthole 60 was one of these or something like that.

It's like when the user name is the most anonymous on there, which I just use my first,

my I just use my name on there.

So I'm not anonymous or anything.

And several other layer of a content creators do as well.

But yeah, man, the longer it goes, it's just like I just want to just say, hey, here you

guys go.

Here's the keys because it just shout.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I need to get some more moderators on there because it's just like, yeah, it's getting it's

getting badly.

Just it's gotten pretty so much better than it was than previous years, but it's still bad.

That's right.

I feel like, you know, people like you and people like just in their community, if you guys

have a great package, you'll be able to put it on there and there shouldn't be someone

on there.

Well, this pattern is terrible and the repository pattern that any time somebody, right

onto the point now, anytime somebody posts repository pattern and it's not, it's not original

content, but it's not unique enough.

We just remove it because it just causes way too much crap.

Yikes.

Yikes.

Yikes.

So don't be toxic.

Don't be toxic.

Just be good.

Or reddit.

Just be good.

Just be a good human.

So if you don't like, don't agree with the package.

Don't comment.

Close it.

Just go.

Yeah.

So people feel worse after they like leave a toxic comment like that.

There's all these studies on that.

If you, if you have a toxic, you know, thought just leave it to yourself because if you leave

the comment, then you actually feel even feel worse about it.

Even though you feel like somebody will just want to get off my chest.

But, yeah, not good.

So, all right.

Well, we'll see if I am a if I'm still alive by next week post layer con with the, I might

be definitely going to be there be, but I probably much more red than I am now.

I'm already red enough.

We'll see.

Yeah.

On the show mostly technical.

Did you listen to the most recent episode?

I listened to the first like 20, 20 minutes.

Did you get to the part where Daniel was talking about how it's going to be like 160 degrees

under that six lane highway?

No, but okay.

So, 106 or 160.

What do you say?

I think he even said like 170.

Where my hotel is, it's like he they're talking about producer Dave and about his, he has like,

I'm going to walk.

I have a 10 minute walk and he's from Connecticut.

So, he's like, you know, it's all right.

But then Aaron's like, he's like, he's going to tie on his on this walk.

So, he's like, he's talking about how they mapped out his walk and where he's going to go

under the six lane highway and then to the to the venue.

And so, probably under that highway is going to be 170 degrees.

And then I got to thinking, I looked at my hotel.

My hotel is like right on the other side of the highway.

It's not, it's only like five minutes away, but it's on the other side.

So, I have to walk under this like six lane highway is going to be cooking under there.

It's going to be like in the middle of the day when I get there.

So, we'll see.

Well, at least on Monday when I get there.

So, I think I'm going to at least go to, me a wait till night to at least go scope out

the venue on Monday.

So, we'll see.

Yeah.

I bet anybody who's going to sell sunscreen is going to make a killing.

Yeah.

We're just, yeah, we're just, any, any body from, yeah, just trying to stay cool.

Anyone from Europe or like I was talking about the last show of, you know, I feel like

they're not going to be prepared for the Texas heat.

We'll find out.

Yeah.

Well, we'll see, we'll see because I bet like someone like Jess Archer is probably going

to show up in like a jacket jeans, like the soft Australian weather.

It got nothing on.

It's one of the times where.

It's right now.

Oh, is it?

Yeah.

I did not realize that was a thing until I started listening to Michael Derinda, he has

podcasts where they're talking about, which makes sense.

It's just opposite side of, you know, but they're just like talking about how it's winter

there and summer here by subversa.

It's like there's summer time.

It's like our winter.

I was like, what?

That's a thing.

Yeah.

It's our phone then.

Yeah.

So, it's just a, it might run.

It's summer time.

Yeah.

We'll find out.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'll definitely, I'm sure a lot to talk about.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah.

If you see Andy at Lericon, you better come up and say hi.

Yeah, come see hi.

Both of us.

If you're still listening, come see hi.

It'll be really good.

So, yeah.

All right.

Anything else, dude?

That's it.

I'm excited to talk Lericon with you next week.

Yeah.

All right, dude.

It's been a good show.

If you're still listening, thank you.

You made it.

Thank you.

And so.

Cookie for you.

If you're also listening, go on Lericon, like I said, hit me up and just message me on Twitter

which you're excited about for Lericon and I'll be going to Lericon after Dark Party.

So, and I'm going to try to find something Monday night and also the Wednesday night, the

last day.

So, yeah, just if you want to hang out, there'll be a lot of fun.

So, let's do it.

Yeah.

All right.

I look for death for me.

Nice.

Yeah.

We got that.

Yeah.

I'm not much of a drinker anymore.

So, I'm definitely going to grab one of those and send you a pic.

So, I look good.

Hell yeah.

All right.

So, hey, you've been listening to another episode of Midwest Artisans and you can reach out

to me at AndyHNK on Twitter and Dalton.

You can find me at Dalton McCleery on Twitter.

DaltonMcCleery.com and andyhinkle.com as well.

Yeah.

You can reach out to us on our socials and anything like that.

So, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next week.

Bye.