The Big Leap

Two years ago, Gay and Mike sat down and recorded an incredible podcast with their dear friend, Arielle Ford, about her debut novel “The Love Thief”. 

It was such a deeply insightful and moving episode – they decided to share it again. 

Why the 'revisit'?

Well, because Arielle's novel, The Love Thief, has been scooped up and re-released by Hay House! 

This romantic, spiritual thriller—part love story, part transformational journey—now comes with a brand-new cover, a soul-
stirring audiobook, and some seriously juicy preorder bonuses.

In this episode, Arielle, Mike, and Gay dive into the real-life inspiration behind the story, the spiritual teachings woven through the plot (think Eat, Pray, Love meets Dirty John), and why heartbreak can be the gateway to healing.

See, Arielle is one of the world's leading experts on love, relationships and the greatest manifester Mike has ever known. She's written numerous bestselling non-fiction books like “The Soulmate Secret” and “Turn Your Mate Into Your Soulmate,” but this is her first foray into fiction - and what an adventure it's been!

And in this episode, Arielle takes Gay and Mike behind the scenes of how this book came to be.

It all started with a crazy idea from her husband, Brian, involving aliens and operatic singing! But soon, the characters began “talking” to Arielle, almost driving her crazy. She found herself acting insecure for the first time in her career, constantly seeking reassurance from friends about her writing.

Eventually, Arielle surrendered to the muse and let this wild story download through her. The result is a juicy tale of love, betrayal, spiritual awakening, and sweet revenge. Part Eat, Pray, Love, and part Dirty John, Arielle calls it "a romantic, spiritual thriller with a surprise happy ending."

Mike won't give away all the details, but let's just say one of the characters was inspired by HIM! (It won’t be hard to figure it out.)

Mike and Gay were fascinated and inspired to hear about Arielle's creative process. Even though writing this novel was torture at times, she learned a ton about herself along the way.

And you have to hear her vision for the audiobook (something she hopes to turn into a Grammy-winning production). Just like her manifesting powers, Arielle's imagination knows no bounds!

Whether you're an aspiring writer, novel lover, spiritual seeker, or just a fan of Arielle's work, Mike highly recommends giving this interview a listen. Arielle's joy is contagious. He knows you'll be inspired.

The Love Thief is for anyone who’s loved, lost, raged, and risen. It’s a story of revenge, redemption, and rediscovering your worth.

You’ll laugh, cry, and maybe even book a flight to Rishikesh.

Key Takeaways
  • (04:09) Arielle never wanted to write a novel and how it came about
  • (09:31) The moment Arielle thought she was schizophrenia because characters started “talking” to her
  • (13:19) The process of writing the book
  • (23:09) Her dream for the audio book and winning a Grammy!
  • (34:46) The spiritual practice of channeling characters and storytelling
  • (45:05) Who is the perfect buyer of this book?
Praise for The Love Thief
“A spiritual love story that leaves you gasping with all the feels… A must-read.”
— Sheri Salata, former Executive Producer of The Oprah Show

“An emotional ride through betrayal, healing, and rediscovery. Well done,
Arielle!”
— Iyanla Vanzant

“So satisfying you’ll want a hypothetical cigarette.”
— Natalie Ledwell, bestselling author

BONUS ALERT: With your purchase of The Love Thief, you’ll get access to The Healing the Heart Yoga Series, featuring 10 world-renowned yoga teachers including Seane Corn—designed to help you release heartbreak and restore wholeness.

Order your copy + claim your bonuses now:

Get Arielle’s New Book, “The Love Thief” and your bonus content here: http://www.thelovethief.com


Additional Resources

Creators and Guests

Host
Gay Hendricks
Gay Hendricks is a psychologist, writer, and teacher in the field of personal growth, relationships, and body intelligence.
Host
Mike Koenigs
Mike Koenigs helps business owners and entrepreneurs get paid for BEING, instead of DOING by becoming Transformational Business Influencers, authorities and thought-leaders to create impact, income and a great lifestyle.

What is The Big Leap?

The Big Leap is about two main things; one, Your Upper Limits. How much we can accomplish or achieve? How much love and abundance we can receive? And two, Discovering Your Zone of Genius. The difference between stagnation and success lies in the decisions you make in the moments that matter. This podcast is about those turning points -- the single decisions in life and business that change everything because the difference between stagnation and success lies in the decisions you make in the moments that matter. Gay and Mike will talk about business, relationships, limiting beliefs, and creating freedom and from time to time, you’ll also meet some of their favorite thinkers, thought leaders and celebrities and hear about their Big Leaps.

Arielle Ford [00:00:00]:
So now I have manifested this trip to India and I know I made a deal with God and off I went. Yes, now I understand that I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives, I don't remember saying, yes, I'll do this, but clearly I did. And I would read these passages going, I know there's no way I wrote that, right? Like, where did that come from? And that's why I know I had a lot of help from the other side.

Gay Hendricks [00:00:33]:
I'm so excited about this episode. We have one of our dear friends, Arielle Ford, who's written an amazing new book in a field that she doesn't usually excel in, the novel side of things. Instead of 11 nonfiction books, she's come out now with a novel. And there's so much juicy stuff about creativity in our session today and so much juicy spiritual nuggets, plus a lot of just fun conversation. So I think he'll really enjoy it.

Mike Koenigs [00:01:04]:
Yeah. My favorite part of this was we really find out not just the origin story, why Ariel wrote it, but how she went about writing a novel in the first place. Because like Gay said, this isn't her usual go to. And you'll also hear more about how this is being turned into an audiobook, most likely a movie at some point, but more importantly, how she figured out how to do this in the first place, because the story about writing a novel and the mechanics of it are really, really complex. How about you, Ariel? What was your favorite part of this episode and why should people continue to watch or listen to it?

Arielle Ford [00:01:42]:
My favorite part is the fact that I get to spend a whole hour with the two of you and that both of you as friends and personalities and creative geniuses, actually appear in the book. The wisdom that I've gotten from both of you is actually written into the storyline, even though it doesn't say, this quote's from Gay Hendrix. This one's from Mike Koenigs. So it's a book that's both fun and funny, as you said, but it also has a lot of mystical and spiritual teachings that come in through the back door through my heroine, who is not a seeker. She was not somebody looking for growth. She was forced into it because her life fell apart in every possible way and she ended up in India and then the heavens opened up and she was gifted with all kinds of wisdom and changed her life.

Mike Koenigs [00:02:37]:
Yep. And I will tell you this right now, besides just loving this episode, you might as well just head over to thelovethief.com right now, grab yourself a copy. Arielle's got some great bonuses and it is a lot of fun. And then you get to think about and guess who's who inside that book and figure out who the characters are that Ariel based on the two of us. All right, you're going to love this episode. We'll see you on the inside. All right, we're here with one of my favorite people in the whole wide world, the greatest manifester I've ever known, Arielle Ford, who just finished her latest book, her first novel, the Love Thief. And Gay and I are going to talk to her about that.

Mike Koenigs [00:03:22]:
We're not only going to talk about the origin story and what we love about this book, but also about writing a novel, which is to me seems like an insurmountable task. I put myself inside that. But Gay, you've written a whole bunch of novels and Ariel, you've written yours. So first of all, thank you for being here. I've been looking forward to this so long. And let's just dive in and talk about what this experience was like. So, Gay, do you have any big questions that are on your mind that you think are really important other than the fact that Arielle, thank you for being here. And why did you write this book in the first place?

Arielle Ford [00:04:03]:
Well, I didn't want to write the book. It was absolutely never on my to do list to write a novel. And what happened was my husband Brian, who you both know, walked into my office one day and he said to me, you know, you should write a book about me. And it should be called I Married an Alien. And I was like, get out of here. I'm never. That's so stupid. Go away.

Arielle Ford [00:04:25]:
And when he walked out of the room, I started thinking, well, if I were going to write a book about Brian, like, what would it be? And I realized it. The only thing it could be is about who he is as a human, because I call him my heart chakra on legs. Brian's gig in life is to make sure everybody comes in contact with has the experience of being loved. And so it would be a character, a loving character. And then I thought, but I'm not writing that book. And I went on to something else. The next day, the title for the book came to me. And the title at that time was the Love Walla.

Arielle Ford [00:05:03]:
And in India, Walla is somebody who's the best at what they do. So Brian is a love walla. And I thought, wow, that's a cool title. But I'm not going to write a novel. The day after that, the first line of the book came. My mother was right. And I was like, oh, my God, that's an amazing opening line. My mother was right.

Arielle Ford [00:05:24]:
And then the book started to download in my head like a movie. Gay. It could have been a spiritual cinema circle movie. I could see the movie, and I could see that it takes place in Rishikesh. But I kept saying, no, no, I am not going to write a novel. I've already written 11 nonfiction books. Isn't that enough? And then I got an email from masterclass.com that said, learn to write a thriller with Dan Brown. And I thought, I love Dan Brown.

Arielle Ford [00:05:53]:
I bought the Year Pass. I'm signing up. And I sign up for this course. And video number three, he's talking about location as a character in the book. Like Da Vinci Code. The location was Florence. Florence was a character in the book. And by that time, the movie in my head had already shown me it was going to be going to Rishikesh, India.

Arielle Ford [00:06:18]:
And I thought, well, that's so fascinating. Rishikesh would be a character in the book I'm never going to write. And then the movie's going on and on and on, and I was getting really annoyed because I'm not going to write this book. And finally I thought, the universe is speaking to me. What's it trying to say? And I decided to talk to God. And I said, you know what? Okay, God, if I'm meant to write this book, then I am going to manifest a business class ticket to India. I'm 5 foot 8. I cannot sit and coach for 21 hours.

Arielle Ford [00:06:53]:
And I felt this great sense of relief. That's never going to happen. I don't have to write this book. Well, two days later, I run into Mike, and Mike says to me, hey, Ariel, how are you? What are you up to? And I blurt out, oh, nothing. I'm just trying to manifest a trip to India. And he says, well, when do you want to go? And I give him some dates. He looks at his phone and he says, I'll take you. We had a great time last time we went to India.

Arielle Ford [00:07:20]:
And I was like, yes, but. And so now I have manifested this trip to India, and I know I made a deal with God. And off I went at the last minute. Poor Mike, he couldn't go. He had stuff to do. So I went by myself. And everything I saw in the movie, in my head, I was tripping over in Rishikesh, I Couldn't do anything but see the movie unfold before my eyes. And then four and a half years later, now it's finally a book.

Arielle Ford [00:07:52]:
So that's a short story.

Mike Koenigs [00:07:54]:
Awesome.

Gay Hendricks [00:07:55]:
You know, as you. If I heard you correctly, you heard a line in your head or saw a line in your head that jingle my memory button. Because on one of my books, one of my novel, mystery novels, it happened the same way. I heard a line in my head. And I thought, what kind of a person would even say something like that? And then I started this dialogue, and I found out who my character was. Sir Errol Hyde, who's kind of a Victorian dandy a hundred and some years ago. He's a crosstown competitor to Sherlock Holmes. Anyway, the other one, the other series about my Tibetan Buddhist private detective, it didn't happen as a line of dialogue, but it happened as an image.

Gay Hendricks [00:08:47]:
I saw an image of the sky standing up on the bluffs in the Pacific Palisades, looking back toward Asia and saying, am I still an Asian or am I an American now? And that was what was going on with him. And then I found out, you know, what do you do for a living? And he said, I'm a private detective. And the whole thing unwound from there. And I was curious, in your origin story, did you begin to dialog with the characters to find out about them or how did you go about that?

Arielle Ford [00:09:25]:
They started talking to me. I felt like I was schizophrenic. I was invaded. You know, they were, like, introducing themselves. Well, I'm so and so. And this is what I've got to do. And. And it was very distracting.

Arielle Ford [00:09:37]:
I remember I had this lunch plan with James Von Praag, and I got. I got in the car to go to lunch with James, and they started talking to me. And the next thing I Knew, I was 20 minutes in the wrong direction, had never gotten off the freeway. And I only knew because James called and said, where are you? I'm at the restaurant. Where are. I was like, oh, my God. And of course, I missed the lunch. But that's how annoying these characters became.

Arielle Ford [00:10:03]:
This book was inside of me, kicking and screaming to come out. I had no choice about it. And you guys are so much a part of this book. Mike knows, because there's a character that. We won't say how much of it is true, but there's a Mikey in the book. And Gay, you informed my hero. I mean, so much of the time, I heard Gay Hendrix speaking to me, and your words were. Were coming out of my hero's mouth.

Arielle Ford [00:10:31]:
So it's just such a joy to be sharing all of this with both of you because literally the book would not be what it is today without you two guys.

Gay Hendricks [00:10:42]:
Well, I appreciate you saying that. Hey, you know, before we go any further, could you give us the two minute plot sketch so everybody will have a picture or two to hang that on?

Arielle Ford [00:10:52]:
Yeah. So it's a romantic spiritual thriller with a very juicy revenge subplot and a surprise happy ending. And the tagline is he, he stole. He, he broke her heart, he crushed her dreams. And then karma intervened.

Gay Hendricks [00:11:14]:
Everybody's got to know what that karma is, right?

Arielle Ford [00:11:17]:
Well, I have a Hollywood producer who's going to turn it into a limited series and she accurately calls the book, she says it's Eat Pray Love meets Dirty John. And that is exactly what it is.

Gay Hendricks [00:11:32]:
That's a fantastic pitch line. I love that. I can't wait to see that. I've been to Rishikesh, India, and it was a very formative place in my life because I learned TM way back there 50 years ago. And then I always wanted to go see where all that sort of thing came from. And so it was a real transformative journey for me to get up there. I don't know if I'd recognize it today from where it was 40 years ago, which was the last time.

Arielle Ford [00:12:01]:
I think you would. I think would, yes. You know, there's ashrams everywhere. The Ganja Ganga is flowing through the middle. The Beatles ashram, which they now call the TM place hasn't really changed, it's just overgrown. You know, it's not act. It's, it's, it's marinating, you know. But yeah, I think you would totally recognize it.

Arielle Ford [00:12:21]:
There's, there's no fancy hotels. There is one very high priced place an hour away. But Rishikesh itself I don't think has changed much in 40 years.

Gay Hendricks [00:12:33]:
When I was in India, I was doing it the long hair, granny glasses, backpacker, dope smoking way. And so I don't think I ever stayed in a hotel that was cost more than five bucks and maybe a lot of them cost two bucks up in the outback of the Himalayas there. Well, I found Rishikesh a really fascinating place and it. I'd forgotten about the word walla until you mentioned it, but my favorite restaurant in Rishikesh was Choti Walla. I don't know if it's still there or not, but choti means food and walla means, you know, the Guy that brings the food very well and all that. So what was your process like in writing this novel?

Arielle Ford [00:13:19]:
You know, it was so different because in nonfiction, I sit down every day and I write 500 words a day. And in six months I have a book. And, and it, it's, I don't know, sort of structured. This was not structured because I, I never really believed I was going to finish it. And I would just sort of, you know, I would sit in the bathtub every morning and think, okay, well, this is what happened to Holly yesterday. What's going to happen to her today? And then ideas would just come to me and I would just write. And then the really crazy thing that happened was I turned into this very insecure geeky person who needed constant reassurance and feedback. So I started sending my early pages to all my friends because I had, you know, I know that I'm a strong non fiction writer, but I had no way to know if the story I was telling was interesting or if it was good.

Arielle Ford [00:14:16]:
So I would send it to my friends and then they would send me an email. Oh, God, I hated your villain from page one. It's great. Keep going. Or I'd send it to somebody else and then I would print out the emails and I'd put them all around my office. And every time I got insecure, I'd start reading again. So it really, it really revealed a. A part of myself that I had to learn to love.

Arielle Ford [00:14:36]:
Because I'm not used to being insecure. If anything, I'm overconfident most the time. It's like I know I'm good at what I do and I know how to do shit, but this, you know, I was telling somebody the other day, it's kind of like, you know, when I, when I try to explain the difference between writing nonfiction and fiction, for me, the only, the only meeting point was that there are words in both. Other than that they're, they're. It's totally different stuff. It's like I could be the best person in the world at doing mani pedis. And then someday, gay walks in, hands me a scalpel and says, tomorrow you do brain surgery. That's the leap of writing for me, for writing fiction.

Gay Hendricks [00:15:19]:
Wow.

Mike Koenigs [00:15:19]:
I've got one for you. Oh, go ahead. Gay.

Gay Hendricks [00:15:22]:
Yeah. And beginning to end. How long did it take you?

Arielle Ford [00:15:27]:
4 and a half years. Because I was writing and rewriting and editing and my agent was really pushing me. I had two different outside editors and two different book doctors, and I wrote a lot of it during the pandemic. So there was a whole pandemic thing that went through it. And then once I got to the next version of the ending, one of the book doctors said to me, every mention of the pandemic's got to go. We're all sick and tired of the pandemic. We don't want to hear about it ever again. So I basically had to rewrite every page to take out the references and the storylines.

Arielle Ford [00:16:04]:
So it was a very, very long process because I was learning how to write the whole show. Don't tell. That doesn't really exist in nonfiction dialogue. Doesn't really exist. The one book. I have a book here. I'm going to show it to everybody. This is the book that saved my life.

Arielle Ford [00:16:25]:
It's called the Emotion thesaurus. And on every page, let's see. Okay, you want to show disgust. So the definition of disgust is in here. And then it gives you all the physical things about what disgust is. So if you have to describe, you know, gay was really disgusted with Katie about such and such. So hands up. Backing away with a shutter, you know, dry washing the hands, whatever.

Arielle Ford [00:16:51]:
This is basically how I learned to write dialogue.

Gay Hendricks [00:16:56]:
They should have given us one of those when we were learning therapy back in my therapy training days. That would have saved everybody a lot of trouble.

Arielle Ford [00:17:05]:
Yeah, it's a trip, I have to say, but now that it's done, now that it's done, I can say lots of good things, which, A, I'm very proud of myself that I did it. I got it done. I'm happy with the book. I love the COVID Love, love, love the COVID The longest chapter in the book is the acknowledgments. Because I had so much help, I had to have everybody thank me. So it's. It's turned out to be one of the biggest, best things I've ever done. But the actual process was pure torture.

Gay Hendricks [00:17:39]:
Yeah, well, hopefully you learned enough about yourself along the way to make the torture worth the while, because God seems to have a vested interest in getting this book out into.

Arielle Ford [00:17:52]:
Yes. No, I. I understand that. I. I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives, I don't remember saying, yes, I'll do this, but clearly I did. And clearly you guys signed up to be a part of it. So I'm just taking direction at this point.

Arielle Ford [00:18:13]:
You know, people keep saying, well, what's the sequel? It's like, I don't want to have that conversation. Let me. Let me you know, raise this one right. Right now. You know, the water broke and the baby came out. You know, let's. Let's get a little further down the road before we talk about, would I do it again? Because sitting here today, I'd have to say, no, I can't imagine Again.

Mike Koenigs [00:18:35]:
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Ever since I met you, it's always, this is the last book I'm ever going to write. I'm never going to do this again. And you create a new adventure in your head that makes it fun for you. So it's not, you know, hellacious.

Arielle Ford [00:18:51]:
I will admit the title has already shown up, and the title is so good. But. But the movie hasn't started. So if the movie starts, that's a whole different ball game.

Mike Koenigs [00:19:03]:
Yeah, that. Which. Which kind of brings us to one of the things that's on your mind is doing a. Can we talk about the audiobook a little bit? Yeah, the vision for that. Okay, so I'll. I'll set it up a little bit. Because you love entertainment, and the fact that you saw this as a movie, I think, speaks volumes. And you and Brian.

Mike Koenigs [00:19:30]:
Well, all of us are huge movie fans. You know, we just love the journey and the variety. And this thing lends itself very, very well, especially when you read it, to not only being a great audiobook, especially the way you're visualizing it, but a movie as well. And I was just gone this past weekend, and a friend of mine created a play. I saw it for the first time. And it's a play about Lloyd Price, who was the first entertainer. He did Lottie, Miss Claudia and Personality. Those were two of his hits.

Mike Koenigs [00:20:08]:
But he did many, many, many hits. But he's the first entertainer who created his own record label, and he happens to be African American. He also did a show called Turntable that was Broadc from New York City. He did a ton of firsts. He helped Sam Cook early on, and. And many, many, many people really create their careers in music. But he also inspired a lot of African Americans who reached financial independence by modeling him. So I bring all that up only because at this moment, we have a writer's strike going on.

Mike Koenigs [00:20:45]:
We've got an actor strike going on. At this point in history, a lot is changing in entertainment, and you have a tendency to lead the way as a visionary. Even it's as an accidental visionary. So I'm just curious what shows up when you hear all that stuff for you with regards to both the audiobook, the movie, and what's going to go on what could happen in the entertainment world.

Arielle Ford [00:21:12]:
Well, well, the movie is on hold right now. Nothing's happening at all. But the audiobook I'm going to start moving forward on because there are plenty of voice actors that are not part of SAG or the writers group. And the words exist. I've already written the words. So my vision for the audiobook is that it'd be a full cast audio. Every character will have his or her own voice. There'll be a soundtrack and there'll be sound effects because it's India and there's no more greater place for sound effects.

Arielle Ford [00:21:47]:
And so I already have my, you know, Saviji, you know, at her ashram, she has a huge AV department. They're already capturing the sound effects and the soundtrack of RT and all the music they have every day. They're already giving me original music to use for that. I've already found a casting director. I've already got the sound guy who's gonna. Has a long history in the edit thing. And now I'm trying to learn as best I can all the pieces that we need. Like we had to make a character breakdown in order to do the casting, which means I have to give a description as, you know, who is Holly, like in terms of a Hollywood person, what does she sound like? Here are samples of that actress on interviews.

Arielle Ford [00:22:32]:
What for the audition tape, what dialogue do we want to have them record? And then this is the hard part. I have to come up with the exact word count of every single character. And then also where are the characters conversing so that we can figure out how to pay them, because they get paid either by the word, the hour or the day. Right. And then we have to structure the schedule because even though it can all be done remotely now, you know, so I have to become a line producer and project managing is not my thing. I'm a creative. I don't want to be a project manager. But having talked to your friend, I can't remember his name, and some other people, there isn't exactly a line producer out there that's done this level of focus audio that I want, that has experience.

Arielle Ford [00:23:25]:
So I'm, I'm going to have to figure this part out and then maybe you guys can hold the space for me. My dream for this audiobook is that I win the Grammy for best spoken word.

Mike Koenigs [00:23:36]:
Hmm. You know, as you're telling that story, you know, there is a, a talent pool that you could draw from, which is public radio has been producing talkie style shows for A long time there are editors out there and I would look up. I'll think of the name in a second. But there are a couple well known FM NPR shows that are like, if you go back to Garrison Keillor, I mean that was performance plays as radio. And I, I would bet you can find some people who'd love to do something like this who know how to create what used to be old timey radio.

Arielle Ford [00:24:25]:
Right, but it's the project manager hold all the pieces, you know, tell everybody when to show up person, you know, because the same guy that I've got and I'll, I'll send you. His credentials are phenomenal, you know, and I'm already. There's, there's a new audio book out called. Oh God, I'm not going to think of the name of it now. But Nicole Kidman is the lead character in it and she plays a psychiatrist who has a young girl patient who basically talks to dead people. And I listened to the sample of it and of course it's got music and sound effects and I thought this is the gold standard of where I want to be. The level of drama in the conversation. Even though you, you can't see it, you can feel every piece of it and the music works so well.

Arielle Ford [00:25:14]:
So I have this big vision and I have a very, very tiny budget because I'm funding this thing. So this is my, my next big project. I'm super excited about it. You know, there's a part of, in my head that says, don't you think you should go back to work and earn some money? And then there's this other part. It's like, yeah, someday, but I gotta do this first.

Mike Koenigs [00:25:35]:
Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Okay, I've got one more story related question which is pick your favorite chapter scene. What is it and why?

Arielle Ford [00:25:50]:
Oh, that's so easy. I'll tell you exactly what. Do you want me to read it to you?

Gay Hendricks [00:25:54]:
Sure.

Mike Koenigs [00:25:55]:
Yeah.

Arielle Ford [00:25:56]:
Okay. Let me, let me figure.

Gay Hendricks [00:25:59]:
I have another question for you too, once you finish that.

Arielle Ford [00:26:02]:
Where, let's see, did I put it in here? You know, I don't remember where it is, but my favorite scene is so, so Holly is gone to India. Her heart is broken. She's on this roller coaster of sadness and depression and betrayal and grief. And when she's not there, she's in extreme anger and rage and intensity and hate and wants revenge more than anything. And you know, now she's with this Brian like character, this, who I've named Deepak. Because in India, Deepak's just like John or Bob or Steve. It's very common name. And he's her.

Arielle Ford [00:26:40]:
Her love walla. And she basically says to him, you know, I just want to be loved. You know, why can't I just be loved? Did Barry ever really love me? Barry's the toxic narcissist. And so Deepak explains to her the 101 about toxic narcissists, how charming and smart they are and charismatic and blah, blah, blah. And. And at the end of it, he says to her, oh. She says, did he ever love me? And Deepak says to her, asking a man like this to love you is like asking a man with no arms to hold you. Simply impossible.

Arielle Ford [00:27:24]:
And that's the start. That's the turning point to her growth where she starts to really see that her lifelong dream of the white picket fence and Prince Charming on a white horse is just a myth. And that's not what love really is.

Gay Hendricks [00:27:40]:
Okay, we're sitting around a casting table and we've got a bunch of 8 by 10 glossies of very prominent actresses who are a couple of them that could play your leading character.

Arielle Ford [00:27:54]:
Yes. And let me just find my breakdown because I've. I've done all that thinking, but of course I can't remember thing anything anymore. Oh, gosh, I'm gonna have to find this document because literally all those names I have and I have forgotten them. And. Okay, there's a file on here somewhere called Audio. Where is it? I don't know. Sorry.

Arielle Ford [00:28:19]:
Sorry, guys. I kissed. Sorry, I can't pull it out. Where is it? Let me search this way under.

Mike Koenigs [00:28:27]:
Well, while she's looking, I'm going to continue the entertainment so that you'll just interrupt us. So, gay, when you listen to this, what's showing up for you? Are you inspired to create something different or new? Is this. How is this resonating with you as a creator and a storyteller?

Gay Hendricks [00:28:50]:
Well, good question, because I'm in a very different place in 2012. I just got this novel writing bug and it only took me a couple of months to write my first one. And then I was going to rest for a couple of days, but then I'd already thought of how the next one went. And so I literally started the next day working on the next one. And so with the. In the first six months, I'd written, you know, two and a half mystery novels, and it was like I was on fire and just couldn't stop. And I went that way through really eight, two of which are not published. Yet.

Gay Hendricks [00:29:31]:
And I was just on fire with them for some reason that. That has concluded. I, I can't imagine ever writing another one of those. And the same thing with my Sir Errol Hyde character. I've written five about him, and they are at a completion now. I, I told the story, and I told the story of the Tibetan Buddhist detective. I brought them all in for a landing, you know, and so they're there, and I, I, frankly, I can't even remember writing them. You know, I mean, it's a pretty extreme thing to do, to crank out a dozen novels in 10 years or so, but I really, I was so consumed in it.

Gay Hendricks [00:30:19]:
I just don't remember at the moment the actual act of writing them all.

Arielle Ford [00:30:24]:
Okay, I found it. I. So my lead character, Holly, my ideal actress would be Kristen Bell. I mean, she kind of looks like her and she talks like her, and, you know, she's. She's been out there a long time. I really like her. And for Barry, the villain, the toxic narcissist, I'll be so disappointed if it isn't. Isn't Bobby Cannavale.

Arielle Ford [00:30:49]:
You know, he's just perfect for it. So those are two. And then Holly's mother. I would really love to have somebody like a Laura Dern. So I've been able to put all this into the breakdown so we can get that sort of feel and that sort of thing. But I'm glad I don't work in casting for a living. I mean, it's not easy. And the way my casting directors described it is, you know, he's going to go out wide to hundreds of people, and they're going to send in tapes, audition tapes, and then he's going to do the first cut and then give me a bunch to choose from.

Arielle Ford [00:31:24]:
Does this sound like the right voice? And, you know, and then I also found out that because voice actors are actors, one person could potentially play, you know, five different roles. And for your role, Mike, I'm. It's a Neil Patrick Harris kind of person.

Mike Koenigs [00:31:43]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Arielle Ford [00:31:43]:
I mean, because in the book you're gay, huh?

Mike Koenigs [00:31:48]:
Yep. I'm. I'm good with that. It's. I. That you did such a great job. I wish there will be a time when we can talk about, you know, the basis of where that came from.

Arielle Ford [00:32:04]:
No, we really can't. We have all kinds of disclaimers in the book that it's a work of fiction. And even though it was inspired by actual events, names and circumstances have been changed, people. And my, My entertainment attorney had me spend A ton of money buying errors and omissions, insurance and so. So it's a work of fiction, just a fictional work. I based the character on my Mikey.

Mike Koenigs [00:32:30]:
So yeah, we had a lot of fun and it'll make for it. Made for great cocktail discussion on when, you know, you had the Warwick's book tour, which is 125-year-old bookseller, one of the last and oldest independent booksellers in the world, which is such a treat and you did such an amazing job performing and you're such a great speaker, it was great to watch you. And I have a follow up question that's not exactly related, but any commentary about the book launch party and who was there because you had a taste and a piece of so many of your best of friends and connections that go back many decades. I won't even say how long for some of them.

Arielle Ford [00:33:24]:
But no, it was, the Warwicks event was really a highlight in my life. It was so much fun. There were 75 people. I knew all of them. I've known some of them for decades. So it was very warm crowd and it was just, it was just so much fun just to be in such a friendly atmosphere where, you know, basically all I had to do was stand there and people were laughing. It was just a big giggle. It was super fun.

Arielle Ford [00:33:51]:
I haven't planned any other book events because there's no way I'm going to get 75 people in Phoenix or Boulder, you know, or St. Louis. And so I'm not going to go on any kind of tour. But it was fun. I am doing a bunch of podcasts and, and what's really gratifying about the podcast is that unlike a book tour where you used to do a lot of radio shows and your publicist would send a list of questions and they would just run down the list of questions. They never read your book, ever.

Mike Koenigs [00:34:22]:
Yeah.

Arielle Ford [00:34:22]:
So to be doing podcasts with people who read the book and like the book, it's just so much more fun because they have their own particular. What they liked, you know, what really moved them, you know, ask interesting questions. So that's been really fun, you know, being able to interact with people that have actually read the book.

Mike Koenigs [00:34:41]:
Yeah, it was so much fun. Well, I'm going to ask another question, if that's okay. Gay. That will lead into a good setup for you, I think, which is channeling characters and storytelling. And now I've been reading the Dune series, which to me is one of the most amazing works of fiction ever. It's so beautiful and complex and the level of. Literally, your mind paints a picture of a beautiful movie, and you're experiencing so many different points of view and so many different eyeballs. And the other one that I really love, and it's a great series on Apple tv, I know you're not a science fiction fan, but it's the.

Mike Koenigs [00:35:33]:
It's the characters and storytelling that matter, but it's. It's Isaac Asimov's foundation series again, really, really complex psychology, human psychology. And that, to me is what fiction and novels are all about, is just the complexities and nuances of humans. And I'm curious, like, when you're channeling the characters. And Gay mentioned something along those lines. He said, I don't even remember writing this stuff. So talk about, like, the spiritual practice of writing and how your brain actually goes in and taps into something that is truly universal. God consciousness.

Mike Koenigs [00:36:16]:
I'm curious for both of you what that's like. But, Arielle, you first.

Arielle Ford [00:36:20]:
Well, even, you know, I had to read the book so many times doing the line edit because, you know, I was so spoiled. I've always had big publishers, you know, by the time I got a book, it was just, you know, answer these questions, but I had to read it over and over and over, looking for every missing space and comma. And I would read these passages going, I know there's no way I wrote that. Like, where did that come from? Like, did I go into some hyper state, into another dimension where I channeled it? And so that. That's been sort of a spooky experience, you know, because it's like, really, I. And that's why I know I had a lot of help from the other side. So the whole experience for me has been a spiritual growth, evolution, because I don't consider. I mean, yeah, my imagination isn't really big enough to have created this.

Gay Hendricks [00:37:18]:
That's exactly the same way I feel, too, because, you know, I know what my imagination is like. But some sort of thing happened where I go into a different space and then it just comes. And, you know, like, on a couple of my books, I've been right at the end and it hadn't revealed itself yet, how to put all the pieces together. And so just having to hang out in that void, in that creative void, and then all of a sudden, whoosh, somewhere out of nowhere, it all comes together. And I know, you know, part of it at least is happening in my brain, but I don't even recognize that part of my brain that can do that kind of thing. So I know we have to have help from something else.

Arielle Ford [00:38:10]:
You just reminded me of something. So I. I told you that in the beginning, the title of the book was the Love Walla. What I didn't tell you is when I got it to a UK book doctor, when it came back, they strongly recommended I change the title. And I was like, oh, but I'm so attached to the title. Why? And they said, well, in the uk, calling somebody a walla is a racial slur. So the UK publishers won't buy the book with that title. So as I got really to the very end of the final editing thing, I knew I needed a new title.

Arielle Ford [00:38:46]:
And I was sitting up in bed one. It was like, midnight. Brian was sound asleep. It was dark outside. And I started talking to my dead sister. And I was like, debbie, I have this idea for a title, but I don't know if it's the title. It's the Love Thief. If that's the title, could you send me a sign? And instantly, I saw a falling star.

Arielle Ford [00:39:07]:
And that's what I knew. So, yes, we were definitely getting help from the other side.

Gay Hendricks [00:39:14]:
Well, also, that is such a great title, too. When I first saw it, I thought, wow, you know, it's. It's so easy to see that in a movie, too. I mean, who wouldn't want to watch that?

Mike Koenigs [00:39:30]:
Yeah, I agree. So we've talked about what next, which is. I don't know. I got to get past this first. We've talked about the audiobook. We talked about the movie, which is on hold. And if there were to be a sequel, what could happen next? Like, how could this turn into series? Or, you know, just imagine. Yeah.

Arielle Ford [00:40:05]:
Well, you know, somebody at that book signing, Mike, you might remember work, said, you know, you're known as a spiritual person, and yet you're writing about revenge. How do you make all that fit?

Mike Koenigs [00:40:15]:
Oh, that's so good. It was awesome.

Arielle Ford [00:40:18]:
My newsletter tomorrow is all about my confession, my dark side, because I love true crime. You know, I love murder and mayhem. And I. And I also. Okay, you'll get this. Gay. I don't know if Michael, get this, but my dream job, had I lived in the late 60s, would have been to be part of Nixon's special tricks committee.

Mike Koenigs [00:40:44]:
Oh, hell, yeah.

Arielle Ford [00:40:46]:
Because the whole concept of revenge and getting back at people really appeals to me. So the sequel would be about, you know, looking like your really nice, typical soccer mom, who by day and by night, she's the queen of revenge.

Mike Koenigs [00:41:04]:
Oh, my God.

Arielle Ford [00:41:05]:
Yeah, something in that would work because, you know, as my sister Taught, you know, we are both the dark and the light. And still to this day, in 2023, most people don't want to admit to their dark side. Well, not you, Mike, because that's one of the first things you share with us. But it's, you know, for me, I think it's really important that we acknowledge and then. And the other part of it is that, you know, especially when it comes to karma, you know, people think they need to be really careful because they don't want to include bad karma. I was once in one of my revenge modes, and I was saying to. To who was it? Stuart. Stuart, who's our friend Stuart from tlc.

Arielle Ford [00:41:46]:
Stuart and Joni Emery. So I was saying, stuart Emery. Well, I really wanted to hire a hitman to take care of so and so, but I didn't want to include the bad karma. And Stuart said to me, well, when I was in India with whatever guru he was seeing at the time, he said, we were taught that it's the role of the spiritual warrior to take out the threat to the community. And by taking out a person like that, you would not include bad karma because you would be doing something good. And ever since Stuart shared that with me, it sort of shifted my whole takeoff. You know what? If you are eliminating somebody who's doing harm, then that's a good act. Then you are a spiritual warrior.

Arielle Ford [00:42:33]:
So I don't know if that answered your question, but that's my answer.

Mike Koenigs [00:42:39]:
Yeah, no, I. As you were talking about that, the setup for that would be a priest, a rabbi, nun, and hitman walk into a bar. And what they do is they become the team. And there's some series. I'm trying to think of what it is, but there's a series where they're not necessarily real, but they. They are hitmen. And one of them isn't is a priest, One of them is a nun. And they all are basically hitmen who are doing all sorts of chaotic things.

Mike Koenigs [00:43:12]:
And it's all revenge that you look at it. You're like, yep, yep. Yeah, that's fine. You know, you like the bad people are so bad. You're just like, yep, they're just getting what they deserve.

Arielle Ford [00:43:23]:
That's why I always like that series that now Queen Latifah's taken over for tv, but it was a movie. Oh, God. What's the name of that thing where he's bringing justice to the universe? It was where she is. She's the person you go to when nobody else can help you. Oh, God, my Poor memory. Anyway, I like what you're saying, Mike. I love that. A priest, a guru, a nun, and a.

Arielle Ford [00:43:48]:
And then walk into a bar. That's my kind of book or show.

Mike Koenigs [00:43:53]:
Yeah, totally.

Gay Hendricks [00:43:55]:
I love that it's out. It sounds like that thing where priest and nun walk into a bar and the bartender says, what is this, some kind of joke?

Mike Koenigs [00:44:10]:
It is. It's a great setup. Okay, well, I wrote.

Gay Hendricks [00:44:15]:
By the way, speaking of setups, I wrote a screenplay once, never got anywhere with it, called Torment. And it was about this subject. It was about a service that you could buy so that after your death, it would be like a little insurance policy, but after your death, this company would go out of its way to torment people that had pissed you off during your lifetime.

Mike Koenigs [00:44:42]:
Oh, God, yes.

Arielle Ford [00:44:43]:
I would watch that in a heartbeat. The show I was thinking of is called the Equalizer, but it was a series of. So the Equalizer was a hitman. He was taking people out, but you were rooting for him. The people out so deserved it.

Mike Koenigs [00:44:58]:
Yeah, the Punisher was another one, a Marvel version of that. Same theme. And, yeah, there have been a few of those. So it is like such a great universal theme. Here's another one. This is a distant one, but I just watched a movie called Sisu. Sisu. And basically it is a fin.

Mike Koenigs [00:45:20]:
During right around the end of World War II. And it's basically this guy who's got nothing left to. Who's basically had found some gold. He's just a barely survivor from the war, and Nazis come along and steal it from them, and all hell breaks loose. And everyone who's seen, it's like, yep, you just can't. You can't go wrong with a Nazi revenge movie. And I think it's. It's.

Mike Koenigs [00:45:47]:
It's fantastic. By the way, I looked at the preview, I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I want to watch this, but it's fantastic. Sisu. Yep. But I think there's. There's so much to go on here because you can. You literally can go from a love story to a revenge story and. And build on that.

Mike Koenigs [00:46:08]:
You know, there's. There's a bajillion different kinds of directions. It's just a matter of, you know, knowing who your audience is, which is maybe my last question I have for you is who have you imagined the reader, the consumer of this book to be? Who is the perfect buyer? Who's the kind of person who's just going to love this? And. And at the end go, God, I'm so sad it's over with. I want more.

Arielle Ford [00:46:34]:
You know, I really feel like I know my reader. I think they're my friends. You know, these are people who love a good book. They like a good beach read and they also are interested in, in the woo woo part of life and, and some growth. And they, and they love to travel and they like to cook because there are recipes in the book. My heroine Rishikesh, going to cooking school. So there's plenty of recipes in there. So it' you know, it's part, I think, you know, Eat Pray Love meets Dirty John is really the best description of it.

Arielle Ford [00:47:09]:
You know, if you like those kinds of things, if you enjoy reading. People have told me they, they've read it in one or two days. It's a very fast paced, fast moving thing. And one of the best lines I got was from our friend Natalie Ledwell, who said that this book leaves you so completely satisfied you'll want a proverbial cigarette.

Gay Hendricks [00:47:33]:
That's really good. I love that.

Mike Koenigs [00:47:35]:
That's great.

Gay Hendricks [00:47:36]:
Well, that's fantastic. Well, we really wish you well with it. It's a very exciting book and very exciting process. And you know, Fran Liebowitz says most people, if they get the urge to write, should just lie down and eat something sweet until the feeling passes.

Arielle Ford [00:47:52]:
And yeah, I agree with her.

Gay Hendricks [00:47:57]:
Well, I'm glad you didn't do that though. I'm glad you persevered because you came out the other side happy and healthy and whole and with a great new story to share with the world.

Arielle Ford [00:48:08]:
Thank you. And I'm so grateful to both of you because really, I don't know that you'll ever get how much of you two are infused in that story.

Gay Hendricks [00:48:19]:
Happy to donate a part of myself to it. That's great. Always proud.

Mike Koenigs [00:48:23]:
It's the most effortless give ever. That's, that's what's good. And when I, when you told me that I was in there, but you wouldn't tell me what, who I was, you know, I, I had to sit and stew for a little while going, oh, no, what did I do now? But I had a moment of feeling like I was 12 and got caught doing something terrible. My mom used to say, michael Arnold, cane eggs. And I knew I was in big trouble. But so obviously people can go to the lovethief.com. can't believe you got that domain because it's like, God, it's such a good name. They can get the book, they can get a whole bunch of cool bonuses that you give away and of course, we're going to ask that they leave a fabulous five star comment and review because that right now is one of the things you need to get are more reviews for this book.

Mike Koenigs [00:49:16]:
But what else would you like to share about, you know, the reason why they should go grab this right now other than the fact I'm telling you to do it?

Arielle Ford [00:49:26]:
You know, I. It's kind of like a. It's like a healthy meal that tastes good, right? There's a lot of good, juicy life nuggets in there. But you may not want to sit down and read a how to book. But then it's all delivered through the back door through this story about this interesting woman whose life is falling apart, who ends up, you know, having all her dreams come true, just not in the way she planned to have them happen.

Mike Koenigs [00:49:58]:
Good.

Gay Hendricks [00:49:59]:
Great work. Thanks a lot for sharing it with us. Aria.

Arielle Ford [00:50:01]:
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Mike Koenigs [00:50:03]:
Right on. All right, well, I'll wrap this thing up with, you know, exactly what to do. It rhymes with go buy lovetheifnow.com no thelovethief.com grab the book, maybe get two copies. Send one to your friends. You know, it's super easy to give gifts when you've got Amazon Prime. And make sure you head over and leave that review as well. It is. It really is a very fun, funny read.

Mike Koenigs [00:50:28]:
And I can't say what chapter I'm in there, but you won't have to guess very long. And then, and then it's. None of it's true. None of it's true. Okay, just for the record, and it is, it's fun. And you're supporting one of my favorite people in the universe who's one of the greatest manifesters. And she wouldn't be such a great manifester. She wouldn't have gotten that ticket for free in the first place.

Mike Koenigs [00:50:53]:
But I, you know, I had forgotten I had bought that for you until you told the story. I'm like, ah. And I don't remember what was going on, why I couldn't go at that point and visit with you. But I. I'm looking forward to heading back and I hope we can go to India again sometime together soon. So with that, the big leap, it's been an absolute pleasure spending time with you. I hope you share this episode with someone you love and care about. And of course, Gay.

Mike Koenigs [00:51:19]:
And I love your comments, feedback, and 5 star reviews as well, because that helps more people find this show. So thank you, Arielle. Thank you, Gay. And we'll see you in the next episode.

Arielle Ford [00:51:30]:
Thanks so much.