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Do Good Work is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
PODCAST
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Hey, so good
to have you here today on the podcast.
Before we dive in, we're just gonna
do the three spiel of, tell us a
little bit who you are, where you're
calling in from, and what you're doing.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
All right.
First of all, it's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks a lot for the invitation.
My name
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
I am a business coach and I am the
owner of Dig eight Digital Marketing.
in London, uk, but I am actually
calling from Toronto, Canada.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Yeah, so international team,
it's fully remote, right?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
fully remote.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
This is gonna be a great
conversation behind closed doors.
And like in my private one-on-one
calls with with people in my network
or even with other coaches, there
is that current temptation of oh,
there's this opportunity in the market.
Maybe I can start an agency.
But you went and acquired an agency.
Tell us about like why you
dived into the agency life.
Coming from the business coaching,
like the leadership stance, and
then you wanna get your hands dirty
or dirty again with the agency.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Yeah, so that's a great question
and it's an unusual scenario.
I used to work for this agency.
It was a different name back then.
It was called Energy House Digital.
It was the first job that I got when I
moved to Lono, it was working there as
a frontend developer from 2010 to 2017.
And then I was friends with
the owners and we left.
I left in good terms with them, but
moved on and I went into startups.
I worked with for Enterprise as
well, and last year I decided to.
Start working more with business coach.
I was doing it for friends and
like some small clients and I'm
like, why don't I stop this?
I was already working as a product
manager for the startups I'm
like, I know enough of business.
I've been helping them, and
why don't I do this full time?
I really like this part of coaching.
And in conversations with some friends,
I ended up talking to these former
bosses and still friends back then
and we had an opportunity of doing
a bit of business coaching there
And the agency was not in its best times,
so I defined a plan and they decided
to oh, that's a bit of too much for us.
We've been working.
With the agency for a long time.
So they were ready to pass the ball.
And as a joke when I used to work with
them, I'm like, one day I'm gonna buy
the agency or we're gonna become partners
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
The joke became reality.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly and it was so funny
because they are like, oh, I
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
that's how I got into the agency I
laid down my own plan and I'm like,
okay, this is what I have to execute.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
them that was the homework and
I'm like, okay, let me do it.
And that's, that was the
beginning of me back into Ate.
Dig Eight was a merger
of three other agencies.
So Energy House Digital,
your Web and Dig Eight.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh wow.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
up was the oldest brand.
why it became that one.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
No, that's pretty cool.
And a few things there having someone
else come in and do the, there's
a significant 180 shift that we're
gonna dive into, like what you've
been doing with the agency, but I
think that's one key area to look at.
Also, it was within your network of
relationships and the relationships
that you've had for over what year?
With 15 years I.
So I think that's something I as well
to keep in mind and something that
I talk about with my clients is that
we always wanna build relationship,
even if it's not a good time right
now, it could be in the future.
And creating, again, very simple
principles of circles of influence.
Who's your who?
Who's your referral network?
Who are the people that you can support?
Who are the people that you're
going to empower the future?
'cause you never know
how that turns around.
So when you come into the agency,
this is where like I want to dive
into, 'cause there's a lot of few
things that are changing in terms of.
Digital ads, paid media funnel,
website, web dev, all these things.
Web dev is actually kicking off and
really hot as a trend recently, but
there's also shifts with ai, with meta
going direct to consumer or direct to
advertisers so that you don't actually
need the middle person for the agency.
At least that's what some
people are speculating.
I don't always believe that.
But what are some of the shifts that you
had to do and how are you evolution like.
Evolving the traditional agency
model to what is needed today.
'cause agencies, when we say agencies
in 2010, completely different
from what works in 20, 23, 24, 25.
So walk us through what were some
of the evolutions or what are the
things that look different, because
you might say the word agency, but
you're not actually saying the same
thing that everyone else is thinking.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Yeah, that's actually a great
question or angle to tackle.
So when I got the agency, was a
traditional agency in a sense that there
were packages like SEO package, the PPC
package, the web dev package package.
And what I got from my experiences
working with startups is that these
startups that I worked for, they
did hire some agencies and then
they selected one or two packages,
But in the end of the day
it was a bit disconnected.
So one thing that I'm trying
to do with digital right now,
and we are e even, we're even
rebranding because of that is to.
To sell more like a part-time digital
marketing team because if you come
to me oh, I need SEO, do you really?
Is
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah, it is
like not a one, a oneone thing, right?
You need to get people to the finish line.
You think you need this thing, but you
actually need these three other things.
But I can't sell them to you
'cause they're a different package.
So like, how do you actually service
the client when they actually need
these things, but they don't want to get
those it's a, like it's a wagon tail.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
And even most of the
agencies, they sell ours.
So
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: if
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh my gosh.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
if, yeah, you probably, yeah.
But it's the reality.
And then
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
back, it was like, still like this.
So it ends up being a bit unfair with
the client from my perspective in the
That, oh, it hit the limit of hours,
therefore I cannot help you anymore
So the things that we are doing right
now, we are repackaging things in a
way that we sell you this part-time
team and we're gonna focus on your
business needs and your business goals.
And the fact that I am a
business coach, I ask a lot of
questions about their businesses.
And on top of that, I queued the BD team.
Have a business development
team, I don't have a sales team.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh wow.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And what I did implement from the first
month on it was like sales training every
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: For everyone.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
So
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Okay.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
66 sessions last year alone.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Okay.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: And
the result of that was it so amazing that
people were working together for years
and they didn't know what each other were
doing because everyone was in NA silo.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I feel like
this would be in a case study, right?
Like an old case.
But this is still happening today
and I know people listening either,
like I know a few people who are
listening, like they're like, my
clients are doing this right now.
I seen this last week.
I can't believe this is still happening.
But it is.
It's still happening.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
It is still happening.
for me, I trained everyone to not
sell, and that was like the first
barrier because when I called the
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: It.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
I just forced everyone every single
day, one hour, it's sales training.
They're like, I'm sales person.
I'm like, I'm not teaching
you to be a salesperson.
I'm teaching you to have
great conversations.
And one of the things that I train
them is not to be salesy because in
most of people's mind is you have to
wear the sales hat and start pitching.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
And then pushing product.
But really sales a service.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And I'm
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And literally happened
to me when I was coming.
And then I ask them to try to.
Jump into this role play
In five seconds, I just, I barely said
what I needed and yeah, it's, what you
need is social media and then we're
gonna charge you X, but it's this amount
of posts and it's gonna cost that.
I'm like, is it really what I need?
So it was by day, improving
these kind of conversations.
More than that, because I'm a business
coach, I started teaching them how
to be curious about our client's
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Like their successes, right?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
And asking questions about.
The, their sales process about
their products, about revenue.
So suddenly I started adding some
even vocabulary that think about it,
like a web developer talking about
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
This is your lifetime value.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
and they're like,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: that?
And and so funny that.
The specialist, they
would use jargon a lot.
They even in the website said,
oh, we don't use jargon first.
It was like, you're gonna
have PPC because they are ROI.
And during the mock
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
The three letter ones, right?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
and I'm like, what's ROI?
What's PPC?
And they're like.
They couldn't even articulate there.
Everyone not everyone
survived the treatment.
Some of them left as well
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: let's, I
want to talk about that too, right?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: yeah,
so the ones who survived, they are like
really able to conduct the conversation
no matter which lane they are.
There are still specialists in their
But they are able to talk about
any kind of area in digital
marketing that we cover.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah, you're
expanding like the specialist role.
This is like the hype of the T-shaped or
there's different ways to talk about it,
like whatever specialist, but you're also
giving them breath and wings for them to
touch and be able to identify other areas.
I love the jargon joke though.
Like you're this PPC
is gonna ROI or m qls.
It's what did I just say?
But no, I think you didn't really
replace, you just replaced the sale.
You didn't really get rid of it.
Because if everyone on your
team looks for opportunities to
add value, it becomes a game.
How much value can I add to the clients?
And if it's in alignment to their goals,
it's almost like a win-win scenario.
And you're, in my opinion, what I've,
what personally doing this and seeing
this with clients at work, this is
less of becoming an agency partner and
more becoming of a strategic partner.
Where not only does the LTV with
you and your clients increase
because like, why would I get
rid of you if you actually care?
No.
And actually prescribe based
on what I actually need.
Based, not based on what you wanna sell.
And I'm hoping, but with what I've
heard is that you killed hours,
meaning you're not blocked off to
these hours, you're blocked out to
these outcomes and will do whatever's
necessary to hit these outcomes.
Is that correct?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
Yeah, because what was happening is that.
Clearly there were clients that they
were doing, for example, PPC, we
knew that their website wasn't good.
So the content wasn't good.
The landing page didn't exist.
So the other specialist, they saw
it, but they didn't say anything
because it was PPC client.
So what I did is literally
like now we have conversations.
I'm like, we need to get closer
to this amount of growth, this
amount of leads in the month.
And then we figured that out.
So I transformed a lot of
these clients were BPC only.
We just
reshaped.
The contract into this package.
And then did design.
We fixed the ux, we changed the
website, we created new landing pages.
We started writing content for them and
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
The entire marketing arm.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
exactly they wouldn't know
because they were expecting the
client to know what they wanted.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Oh, they never know.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And then
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I
never know what I want too.
If you know the expert, if I go to you
and like you tell me what do I need to do?
I.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
And the analogy that I use is just
like the patient goes to the doctor and
says, look, doctor, I have cancer and
I need this, and that, that treatment.
Hold your horses.
Let's do a lot of exams.
Let ask a lot of questions, and then
I'm gonna figure out what you need.
So this is the conversation that I have
in the beginning of the sales training.
Someone starts to already prescribe
or just accept whatever the prospect
comes with an idea, then yeah.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I like that
just having everyone be a representative
of the company, not a sales rep, just a
representative of the company and getting
incentivized to add value to the client.
One of the things that I find
as an opportunity, so it's not.
A challenge, but it is a
challenge in most scenarios.
But it's an opportunity in
disguise is changing culture.
It's doing change management.
Because coming in saying you're gonna
do sales training, that's one stretch.
I know there's multiple
stretches you had your team do.
So how did you navigate
knowing what to do?
'cause the what is sometimes
easier than actually doing it.
So navigating, here's
what we're gonna change.
So I'd like to have you outline
what were the major changes.
The sales training was one of them,
but then how did you orchestrate that?
Make the team want to do it in a way
where it wasn't they self-selected
if they didn't want to do it, which
is also a way that you empowered
them because you did it with the cool
you're not like a drill sergeant.
You can hear this on the podcast, right?
You did it with style.
You did it with where they were empowered.
So could you help us
understand how to do that?
'cause that's the number one
challenge I see, especially with
remote teams, fully remote teams.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
So I think the first thing that I
did was to come clear with everyone.
I said, look, we are not in a good shape,
and maybe you're not aware of that.
So that was the first shock.
I started talking numbers.
I started talking about the clients
and profit and what that meant.
That was like the first thing
that people got a bit shocked.
And I said, look, the first day
that I came, I said, look, I'm
gonna have to let some of you go.
And I even recall Simone was
like, but you cannot come here.
It's a Monday morning and then you tell
us all of this without preparing us.
I said, wow.
In my mind it was like, tell me the day
of the week and the hour of the day.
That is better to tell you the
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
Yeah, so it was like a shock ice bath.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: I.
Yeah, and I started treating
everyone as adults and professionals.
So I said, look, you
have your own clients.
It doesn't matter if it's
the account manager or not.
Are you a web developer?
you a designer?
Are you a PPC specialist?
on you.
If something goes wrong is on you,
it's on your manager or project
manager, it's on your account manager.
So everyone is accountable for that.
I.
And most of them, they were
just being told what to do
They didn't agree.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Okay,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
and during the, and then I imposed,
the only thing that I really
imposed was the sales training.
I'm like, I blocked everyone and
said, everyone needs to show up.
And so they came.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: So in the past,
the bottleneck was with leadership, right?
'cause leadership would be the brains
the like, here's what we're gonna do.
And then the team would just be the
doers and they weren't empowered.
Is would that would,
that could be in the gap.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Yeah, it, I, it wasn't necessarily the
leadership, but the agency had an ended
up with a structure of a really big,
like a hundred plus employees structure
where you had a lot of middle management.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Ah.
Yep.
So lost in bureaucracy.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly, so you had account managers
that were labeled as digital strategists,
And what did they do?
Account management.
What's the digital strategy
when you are just doing PPC?
The strategy will do, let's do PPC.
And I said what do you
know about social media?
What do you know about that's not my lane.
And then I said,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Interesting.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
How can you be a digital strategist
that only knows one thing?
So you're a specialist
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Did you did
you cut the middle management layer?
Did you go direct or
how did you restructure?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: flat?
Everyone reports to me and that's it.
So I made everyone accountable
for their accounts.
Yes, the, these.
Digital strategists or account
managers, they were still
responsible for the clients.
And it was more like there was one
project manager in there that the, there
were structures in there that everyone
had to have every single minute of
their calendar blocked by something.
So you had a meeting, it
had to be in your calendar.
And that's how capacity was measured.
And I'm like, it's 15
people, 16 people in here.
Why do we have all this?
So it was so rigid that nobody
had the opportunity, for example,
to swap something unless that
PM decided to change things.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh wow.
So that's okay.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: it
wasn't that PM's fault, it is just that.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: That was a
structure that they we're following.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
exactly.
It, so I think it was more like a lot of
people, they didn't have the experience
and they either followed something
that came about before they joined.
They were just following, and even of
the first things that I did, they started
asking why, but why do we do it like that?
Because it's historically it's being
done like this, and I said, why has
it been done historically like this?
Ask themselves that.
They just followed,
And sometimes it was a rule that
was set up by someone that wasn't
in the agency anymore, and they
couldn't see that was a problem.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
That's fascinating.
So the first is like getting them
aware of reality, like what's
the current state of the agency?
The second is you removed.
The middle management layer, not removing
the role, but removing people from
not being connected to the bottom line
and right now, so I wanna understand
your structure of a flat org versus
a structure, because it sounds like
you still have structure, but they
report to you, meaning you're still
in touch with everything to make sure
that everything is running correctly,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
really a flat structure.
Correct.
They still report the, yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
But in the first months it was like that.
Because what was happening?
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: you need to
get in your hands dirty with everything.
You need to know what everyone's doing.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
So I had to touch everything,
so removed that this way.
There was a hierarchy in there
People had to tell you what to
do and you wouldn't do it unless
it was either scheduled for you.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Okay, so then you gave them
ownership to own Exactly why?
And then challenging existing beliefs,
like, why do we do it this way?
So that they can reshift and own their
craft versus being told what to do.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
so what happens that expression
that one of them used was, we've
been kept in the intelligence.
All this time
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Dang.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
That was like, I've heard that
expression, I still use it.
that's why they didn't know what the
others were doing because they were
Told they were being scheduled.
And that's it.
I don't agree.
Maybe my line manager want to do it.
And.
By saying that like nobody,
everyone reports to me directly.
I removed that kind of like it's my line
manager, so I cannot say what I think.
So they came to me and they started
talking, and then I found out
about problems that I wasn't aware
and the previous owners weren't
aware either of the management.
I.
It was not easy.
I'm sure that a lot of people, they
left because they changed everything
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
whenever there is management change,
like people do feel like, oh, the
culture that I signed up for doesn't
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
is said the same.
Yeah.
But the people that stick around,
like you're, the principles at play
though are owning your results,
which takes a certain type of person.
That's just like for me, leading teams and
seeing this and working with, I dunno how
many humans at this point, like it takes
a certain kind of person, and I know I
have a good idea who that kind of person
is, who is willing to take responsibility
for their life and for their outcomes.
But then the second too is just
like you're leading them to where.
And this is where I kinda wanna dive
into your, you came into the agency,
you're restructuring, you let some people
let go, you are obviously doing better.
And I kinda want you to share
like what are the successes
that have come from this?
Not just the case study that happened,
like you're actually getting real traction
here, but where are you leading them?
So maybe lead us like where you're at
right now with the current successes,
but what's the promised land look like?
Like where are you leading the team?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Yeah, so the first two quarters were
just fixing operations and shifting
their mentality to become a partner.
Of each one of our clients.
So it's not about their expertise,
it's about the opportunities.
So that's where the sales training
changed how they thought about
the clients and their work.
And one side effect of that,
one is that they knew that
the clients needed something.
what happens that without me.
They didn't even ask me.
They schedule a call with some clients.
They said, we noticed this.
Here's what we propose.
We are gonna rebuild
this part of the website.
We're
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Proactive.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
I didn't ask,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: There you go.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
even know.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
told me after the fact.
They're like, oh, we
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
that's the cool part.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
But and this was, I
knew this could happen.
But this happened like in a
month and a half of training.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh, really?
Okay.
That's pretty, that's a
pretty quick turnaround.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
And I think by empowering them
showing them that it could be
partners of our clients too, the
real world of being a partner,
It clicked to a lot of people and
they're like I know what I'm doing.
It gave them a different purpose.
The agency and what I said is that we
cannot survive selling these packages
separately, most specifically because
some of them AI will like dominate.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah,
that's the interesting part.
I kind of wanna dive into that.
'cause I was just pulling up
one of your recent posts, right?
Like the team is leaner, but
they're also being more proactive.
And you even write that you don't
fix profit by growing revenue.
'cause and I've seen behind the scenes
doing substantial revenue, but the profit
is it wasn't as high as you'd like it
to be but now you have stable revenue.
You're creating consistency, stability,
and profitability and revenue,
and also increasing team culture.
But how does that affect, I don't
know, what are you seeing with ai?
How is the agency going to evolve again?
And what does that look like?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Most of the people, they
didn't even use any sort of ai.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
So the thought for some of them
was that AI is gonna steal my job.
And what I started to teach them is how
can we leverage AI to make our lives
easier so we can produce more and more
as an augmentation of your output.
So a lot of, a lot of things
for content creation, you
have to do a lot of research.
were manually googling things,
finding out the topic, I started to
show them, like with one, one Bot
that I generated using chat G pt,
I could do the same research way better.
In
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: seconds.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And then, and I started to push,
because of my experience with
startup, I started to push a lot
To think about failing faster, because
that meant we were going to learn faster.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: How did you
set up the environment for them to fail?
Because I mean there's, I hear that and I
work with founders who believe that, but
then when it comes push comes to shove
and their team's actually failing, they're
like, that can't happen ever again.
So how did you set the, because
sometimes failure means it costs
you money, and like that hurts.
So how do you how did you structure
the failure to be a safe environment
where people can actually learn but also
de-risk or even leave the risk as is?
I'm not sure if you de-risked it,
but how did you de-risk it and keep
it as a safe growing environment?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
I always play transparent with them.
So I started to show my failures.
For example, I think even I
even mentioned that to you last
year, I started to do workshops.
So
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
wanted to see how fast
they could ship things.
So I said, we're gonna run a workshop.
It's going to be a CO and PPC.
I'm gonna explain how we kind
of spy on our competitors.
People super uncomfortable.
I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
And just let's build a landing
page and let's start promoting.
I didn't expect anything out of that.
I really expected failure because it
was pushing that for I if I'm not wrong,
for like in less than two weeks from
the moment that I said This is the
idea and the deadline is in two weeks.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Dang.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And then I'm like, let's see how
much they can produce in there.
And everything that was happening,
like how we pro the specialists,
they were doing their parts.
So I started to notice those ones who
forgot their job titles and started
to do something else to help out.
And the ones that were supposed to be
doing some things, I didn't say anything.
I just said, where are we?
Where are we?
Where are we?
And they kept giving me and.
It was not a great reach.
The outcome was pretty great for me
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
they still did it, right?
Because you wanted to see who could ship,
how quickly they could ship, and they
actually did something plus the, the
test there, the risk is no one shows up.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
exactly.
And even we created specific
links for every single person
I could track who shared or not.
And hook converted or anything?
They, so I collected all the data
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: There you go.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
because I wanted to know, it was the
experiment for me to figure out were,
who was doing what and where we failed.
So after the fact, we jumped into
one of the sales training calls
and I said, let's do a post-mortem.
I.
They are the reach wasn't great.
A lot of people, I brought them
Let's put, and I literally started
putting, like I started to draw,
sharing my screen and so like.
was the first day that
I said about this idea?
We had a meeting here.
When was the last thing, like
when was the landing page created?
The design, was this?
When was the email
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh dang.
Okay.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
So I went step by step and I said,
look, I designed this for us to
fail, but because I needed to see
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: How quickly?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
how quickly you could do it.
And where were the problems where
we didn't have time to prepare.
I said,
When on earth you prepare like in two
weeks and you have to start from scratch.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: I don't know.
Don't look at me.
I'm not doing the same thing I might be.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And I was super happy
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
a lot of things came out of it, right?
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah,
it's pretty possible what people
can do and with the expectation, but
the thing that's a practice, right?
That first run, maybe it was choppy.
Maybe if you keep doing that over
and over again, they get used to like
implementation as part of who you are.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: And
it was, I always lead by asking questions.
When I see these problems.
I said, okay, why?
Why did we start only in here?
Because I needed something
from someone else.
Okay, when did you ask for that?
Oh, it was here.
Okay.
What could we have done differently that
would have avoided this kind of problem?
What can we do differently from
the next, from based on this to the
next time that we're gonna run it?
How can we do that differently?
And I never blamed anyone.
I said in the end I said,
look, it was designed for us
to fail and that's all on me
I asked for something that is impossible.
And sometimes our clients will ask for
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: The same thing.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
that seems impossible we believe
that we're not gonna happen.
But at least now you can see
that you can ship in two weeks.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Was it great?
It wasn't.
But you have to value.
The outcome, the things that
we've learned wherever we failed.
There is a lesson in there.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
No, I really like that.
And the fact that you brainstorm to create
that specifically for the team so that
they can prepare for how they're applying
that in the real world with the clients.
So yeah, I can't believe it's been
since last year since we spoke.
I feel like it's only been like a
couple months, but it's been a while.
It's been like six months, seven months.
But so what's next?
Like where are you growing it to?
You got the team lean, you're
implementing ai, everyone's selling.
You're partnering with clients
versus just being a vendor.
So you're checking off all the boxes,
but what's what's the horizon look like?
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Now I'm expanding a bit more in
terms of video and social media.
So I'm investing a bit more in the
team to, it's not gonna be a production
kind of agency, but I feel like.
We are missing the opportunity
with some of our clients and
even with our own content
Growing the presence on
social media in terms of video
production, shorts on YouTube.
'cause people need to know who ate is, who
are the people, who are the specialists.
I'm putting myself in front of
that as the key person of influence
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
the previous owners, they
didn't want to do it.
Nobody in the team wanted to do it.
They were all afraid.
the sales training and I
don't mind, let's do it.
'cause if this is my business,
that's what the business needs.
That's what we're gonna do.
And this is something that I'm preaching
to my own clients and say, look,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Here's what's happening.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: are
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: then.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
case study number one.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: yeah.
So yeah, the thing that I
always tell everyone in the
team is we're dog fooding Which
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
an expression from that
we use a lot in startup.
Like we, everything that we are
going to propose to our clients,
we're gonna have to do it first.
We're gonna fail.
And we're gonna fail with our own
case and then we're gonna make it
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Only way you learn.
Yeah.
Gotta test it.
True marketing.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
And in terms of the future, ing down.
I'm
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Oh, so tell me about that.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
yeah, I'm going after startups.
I'm going after some coaches as well,
because doesn't matter what kind of
coaching it is, they usually start as one.
My bad.
And when they get some traction, and
I truly believe that they are usually
awesome people, that they have so much to.
and
Other people.
But they stumble in this piece
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
don't know how to market.
They are coaches.
They are not marketers.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Oh, yeah.
I hear that there's a guy that I'm
helping, he serves other coaches.
It's the same situation like.
I'm talking, I think thousands
of coaches at this point.
But yeah, same thing.
They're great at their craft.
They don't know how to
set up a landing page.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: Yeah.
and even startups.
Some of the startups that I work
for, they sometimes they used
an agency, as I said, like it's
they were sold specific packages.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
You can only get this limit and.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
they didn't even believe so
they raised a lot of money.
They have a great product and some of them
that I worked with and for, I could say it
was like way better, the product was way
better than the leader in the industry,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Dang.
Okay.
Bold.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
The problem is that the leader in the
industry had really good marketing.
So how do you have a good idea,
you have a good product, but you
are nowhere to be seen on Google,
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: so
how do you grow from nothing to somewhere?
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
So this is the challenge that a
lot of agencies, they don't want.
And even like when I
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
Because it's a real challenge.
It's a real business case versus
just delivering a service.
I'm gonna promise the service versus
I'm gonna promise the outcome.
Then you're gonna be like a,
performance marketing is not for
the week, let's put it that way.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
not for the week.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
The workshop that I planned when I was
discussing with the team the team members,
they were saying, oh, we, we should use
like, I dunno, Nike or Adidas to run
in the tools that we do so we can show.
And then I said, no, I want to
get someone that is nowhere.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
To show them the real.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
And they're like, no but all the
graphs were, they're gonna be empty.
Then I said, but this is the real deal.
If you can solve for that.
He's yeah, Adidas they're
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
I can't relate to it.
Yeah,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly oh, we're gonna show.
And then I said, look, I'm not
gonna go into a workshop to
present the tools that we use.
I'm not that tool representative.
I'm gonna say we leverage these tools to
figure out this, and this is the strategy
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: yeah.
The real thing versus
just like a case study,
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
exactly.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: So expanding
services video, but then also niching.
I'm gonna have to get you back on
like in six months to talk about the
niching because no, this is a real
conversation again with other founders.
There's this dude I might
have to connect him to you.
20 years in business and they are still
generalists and it's should I niche down?
Should I, they're still asking these
questions, which is completely fine.
I think everyone, when they're working
in the business, they can't read the
label from the outside and it's not
always like a perfectly clear answer.
You must niche down to X.
It's never always like that.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: And
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452:
that's fascinating.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: and
one of the things that I noticed whenever
niching down shows up as a subject,
people are afraid that they're like, no,
I have to say that I do everything because
then I can accept any kind of business.
Then I
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: But
then it becomes no, no business.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
niche, exactly.
So if you niche down, it doesn't mean that
you're not gonna get the opportunity to
do the other things that you currently do.
But you niche down because you are
gonna get someone that really needs
that kind of for that kind of problem.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
mean that they're not gonna have
like problems that are related
to this that you currently solve.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Yeah,
oh, definitely a conversation
for a different podcast.
But man, where's the best place?
Leslie, where's the best place
for people to reach out to you?
Learn more about what you're
up to and maybe contact you.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452: I
have been living on LinkedIn for the past
and a half now, because now it's when I am
out of the agency, operations is in place.
So just d me, connect me, send me a a
message that I know that it's not from ai.
Be human.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: too much.
It doesn't take too much
thinking to do that one, so
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Exactly.
So just reach out and then
we can jump into a call.
I'm always open to connect with people
and get to know them and their businesses.
raul-_1_05-08-2025_100452: Right on.
I'll make sure that your
LinkedIn is on the show notes.
Leslie, thank you again for being on.
gledsley-m-ller_1_05-08-2025_130452:
Thank you for having me.
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