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You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
Transcript
# EP9 - Harry Hastings
**David Chung:** [00:00:00] Welcome to Coach as Entrepreneur. Welcome to Coach as Entrepreneur, the show for [00:00:15] coaches building real businesses with systems, strategy and heart. Build a system, serve your clients, and support your family. Today we're lucky to have Harry Hastings, a level seven ILM executive coach and former head [00:00:30] teacher with 33 years in education, including leadership roles at Art Hardingly and Brighton College Prep Schools.
Now the founder of the Sherpa Harry brings over 300 hours of coaching experience to leaders across education, venture [00:00:45] capital, real estate, and more. With over 30 active clients, he's known for helping individuals create transformational change, both professionally and personally. Whether in person or virtual, his one-to-one sessions guide clients toward powerful [00:01:00] lasting growth.
Harry, thank you so much for joining us today.
**Harry H:** Good to be here. David. Thank you very much for asking me. to see you.
**David Chung:** Yeah, it's great to see you again, and I'm really excited to have you for on the show. Um, [00:01:15] so let's just start with, uh, a quick understanding of, of you and your coaching business right now. Um, so you started the Sherpa, um, and that was about two years ago. Is that correct?
**Harry H:** It was a year [00:01:30] ago actually, so I was teaching until and being head teacher until last June and at the end of last June, so that is, yeah, A year ago stopped working in schools. Having done that for 33 years, as you said in the intro, [00:01:45] having qualified in 2021 as a level seven coach, as you said earlier as well. I decided it was time just to do something different. So I founded the Sherpa, and that's my coaching business. [00:02:00] And I started properly in September. So I took a summer off just to reset, regroup and my office and build my website and various other things and start looking for clients. And then I started properly at the [00:02:15] beginning of September year.
So it's been going for, for nearly a year. And it's been, it's been exciting and different and challenging and fun and all those, all those other things that you'd expect to do when you start a business.
**David Chung:** [00:02:30] Yeah. And that's really impressive that within a year you've been able to grow up to CL 30 clients. Um, so that, that's something I definitely want to jump into. But before we go into that, the Sherpa, how did you come up with the [00:02:45] name of the Sherpa?
**Harry H:** Lovely question. And it's not because, because it's a, you know, Sherpa are wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people, and I have, I have done some studies on them. I'm reading a wonderful [00:03:00] book, all about Sherpa and the history of Sherpa at the moment. So I'm not trying to say I am a Sherpa, but it's an analogy to suggest that I'm like a Sherpa in terms of I sit along somes alongside someone.
I support them, I challenge [00:03:15] them, I guide them, I help them. And so I was trying to come up with a name. And that would be relevant to the business of coaching. and of course the whole idea of coaching is that you're not leading someone, you are [00:03:30] alongside them and you are kind of doing their heavy lifting and you are prompting and you are probing and you are supporting them, hopefully with a little bit of wisdom in your, in your pocket because you've seen, you know, because I've seen and done and experienced various [00:03:45] leadership challenges in my time. And so I guess the idea was, was just the likeness to the Sherpa was, you know, the, the wisdom of the Sherpa the mountains, the journey, you know, there, there are so many metaphors in [00:04:00] there. It just seemed like a, a good one
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** A good word to use. And funny enough, actually, I had a, I had another name that I did originally go with and it's so funny, I can't remember what it is. Someone asked me the other day, [00:04:15] was the shirt your first name? No, it wasn't. came across, I, I just thought of it one beautiful morning walking in the woods in Sussex with my dog.
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** And I suddenly thought, oh, Sherpa, that sounds like a nice idea. And so I abandoned [00:04:30] the other one, but I can't remember for the life of me what it
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** So it's a bit weird. There you go.
**David Chung:** Well, I mean, if it, I, I guess that proves that the Sherpa was such a good idea, especially for you, that it, the other idea just kind of [00:04:45] disappeared from your mind.
**Harry H:** It did. I, I, yeah. And, and I, and I like the fact that I came up with the Sherpa whilst going on a journey whilst going on a, you know, on a dog walk. And of course, the whole point of the, the, the coaching business or the [00:05:00] coaching concept is that you are on a journey. You know, you are on a journey. And, and, and if you've got someone alongside you so much better, you know, you, you look at those crazy mountaineers who try and go up Everest without, without the help, without the support, they. Don't [00:05:15] tend to succeed. so the idea of being like the Sherpa, you know, that's the analogy is, is that I'm alongside you on your journey helping, excuse me. Helping, helping success in the journey and, and enjoying, hopefully enjoying the view together.
**David Chung:** [00:05:30] Yeah. And I, I really like that idea of a Sherpa, because Sherpa have gone up and down that path multiple times. So they're experienced, they know what's going on and where the. [00:05:45] Where the path is good and where the path might be treacherous. And so they're there to guide you to make sure that you are able to succeed.
And, and as you were saying for coaches, that's really the right metaphor for working with leaders is
**Harry H:** hmm.
**David Chung:** most of our [00:06:00] coaches, um, that I've interviewed have been down that leadership path.
**Harry H:** Uhhuh.
**David Chung:** aware of the pitfalls of certain areas,
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** know how to guide the people that they're working with through those areas because they've lived through them [00:06:15] themselves.
And so that's really where some of the best coaches are because those coaches have, have been there, so they know
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** what it's like to be there.
**Harry H:** I hope that's the case. You know? It is, it is a, it, it is, it is [00:06:30] lovely being and, and transformative being alongside someone when they're, when they're struggling or when they're challenging themselves or working out what they're doing next. You know, where's their, you know, what
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** analogy, what path are they on that, that kind of [00:06:45] process.
**David Chung:** So obviously, so, uh, uh, when you were teaching and you were a headmaster, um, I, I think there's a lot of [00:07:00] overlap between coaching and, uh, being a teacher or headmaster because you're helping to mentor and guide students, not just teach them. Um, but how did you get into, or how did the idea of becoming a coach even occur to [00:07:15] you while you were in education?
How did that transition happen for you?
**Harry H:** We, we often say in our lives, aren't we, don't we? That we are very lucky. And I, and I think there was, there was a little bit of luck in here in that when I became a head, I had a mentor [00:07:30] the association I was supported by, called the IAPS, the Independent Association of Prep Schools. And it's a, it's a great organization.
It supports you in your journey as a, as a head teacher. [00:07:45] a few years ago, various people within IAPS decided that all their new head teachers should have a coach. And so it was their, their lead on this that got me into it. [00:08:00] And a company called Love Your Coaching, led by Charlie Walorski and Sue Webb. They were tasked with coaching. And teaching a whole lot of head teachers to become coaches. And [00:08:15] so a number of us in, in our association, number of head teachers were trained up as, as executive coaches over a period of, of, of, of months. And we had to do the, the ILM level seven process. [00:08:30] And then having trained up as a coach, we then had to then back to the association, the IAPS by coaching two teachers in our first year as a new coach, and three in our second year [00:08:45] as a new coach. And so that's how it started. It
**David Chung:** I see.
**Harry H:** with a, with a very simple premise. It was a very good idea. And anyway, that was in 2021. And I really enjoyed it and I'd worked alongside some great heads and they, you know, [00:09:00] they were, they were new to the process. I mean, it's quite funny because I was obviously a new to the coaching business.
They were new to the head teacher business, so we're both very green, but helping each other alongside. And I look back now and I'm, I'm a very different coach then to how I am [00:09:15] now. But that's the glory and the beauty of experience, isn't it? But that was essentially it, it was through the wisdom of IOPS and, Charlie and Sue's great coaching and mentoring that, that got me to where I am now.
And I'm still very much in, in touch with them. They're, they're, [00:09:30] they're good people. They're helpful. They, you know, he's, Charlie's actually helped me on my, my next level up. I'm doing the a, CC, the accredited coach certification at the moment. And, and I've just, it's, I've just got the exam to do.
So I've done all the rest of it [00:09:45] with Charlie's assistant.
**David Chung:** Is that the A, c? C through ICF.
**Harry H:** Yeah. So it's
**David Chung:** Okay.
**Harry H:** it's all waiting
**David Chung:** Okay. Well,
**Harry H:** it. It's, over there in their hands at the moment. It's all, [00:10:00] it's all being verified and, um, and I'm just
**David Chung:** mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** go ahead to do the exam then hopefully it'll all be done.
**David Chung:** Okay. I see. Well, once that's done, I'm sure that'll be a load off your mind. Um, [00:10:15] I, I think it's really interesting that this, the association that you were part of, because as an educational institution, uh, I find like the idea of coaching is still not, I think like idea of coaching is [00:10:30] still kind of becoming more mainstream now, I guess within like, um, professional circles as well as educational institutes.
So it's in, I think it's interesting that your, uh, institution [00:10:45] kind of brought that in already. 'cause I still, I, I think because you, you said they were, they brought that in across the board, right? Not just for like one school or one headmaster, but across the board.
**Harry H:** For, for any new head teacher, that was, [00:11:00] that was the new, I suppose the, the part of their training as becoming a new head was
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** they were assigned a coach for six sessions during the course of the year, which actually look, you know, it's, it's, it's really [00:11:15] helpful. I mean, within my coaching business, I, I tend to do more than that with, when I'm working alongside someone, I tend to do,
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** people have the, have eight sessions or 12 sessions, and we, and we meet every two [00:11:30] weeks for 90 minutes. But, but I, you know, I
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** for a new head to have to know that you've got someone. Either side of, of a half term alongside and, and, and also, which is what's really important with all of this, it's not just [00:11:45] a one-off conversation. You know, we, I was always there at the end of a phone or the end of an email or, or, or whatever it might be, a
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** Because, know, at the end of the, at the end of the day, we all need someone alongside us, you know, because it's a what, what, whatever business
**David Chung:** [00:12:00] Yeah.
**Harry H:** no, you are, I think, you know, you are right about within teaching. I think I, I think it, and, and I also wonder why, to a certain extent why it just has to be the head teachers.
You know? I think, I think, I think education teachers, members of staff in [00:12:15] schools, you know, they're, they're demanding businesses and like any
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** like anything, it's, it's, it's much better with, with, with, with a group of people working together and you're much more likely to, to, to succeed with someone alongside [00:12:30] you.
**David Chung:** Right. And I, I'm not familiar with the British system. I know that in the US system, you know, if you're a teacher, you, you do your hours as like a intern teacher. You go to a school, you do your [00:12:45] hours, you get assessed. Um, but once you're. A fully, you know, accredited teacher, you're kind of thrown in there and you just kind of have to figure it out.
So, if you're a headmaster head teacher or if you're just a, in a professional [00:13:00] role and you become a manager, these are all new roles that require different skills
**Harry H:** Hmm.
**David Chung:** that you may or may not have.
**Harry H:** Hmm,
**David Chung:** you know, having a coach or somebody to mentor and help you
**Harry H:** Hmm.
**David Chung:** try to figure out [00:13:15] how to, to manage people or to manage this new role that you have, I think is a, a brilliant idea.
Because if you want people to be successful in what you're they're doing, but they've never done it before,
**Harry H:** Hmm.
**David Chung:** how are you gonna do [00:13:30] that? The, the best way is with the coach, I think.
**Harry H:** Yeah. It, and, and, and it is, it's understanding that and convincing people that that's what they need. And, and once I think once people get into it and realize what [00:13:45] coaching is and how helpful and
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** and valuable it can be, I think people go, yeah, why didn't I do this before? And I mean, I,
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** I, I look back, a, I had a, a great, you know, a lovely mentor when I [00:14:00] first became a head for back 12, 13 years ago. But I had two sessions with this, with this man and that, and that was it. And, and I
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** I think, gosh, you know, all the, how, how green I was as a head teacher and, um, [00:14:15] you know, all the, all the errors we make and all the, all the long nights of stress and concern and holding things in, and I. And thinking, you know, thinking this is the right way to do things.
Whereas actually a sounding board, to [00:14:30] have someone to bounce ideas off and, and to, and to share is, is a huge help. But, but as you say, it's, it's, you know, the Ameri you know, the, the system that you referred to, which I think is the American education system, isn't it, of, of being a [00:14:45] teacher. You, yeah. You
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** you train, and then you're left to your own devices.
And that's, that's quite daunting. I mean, you, it's daunting in any business,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** and of course you've got fellow teachers around and you've got fellow head teachers around, and we, we are very on the whole, we're very good. You know, there's, there's a good [00:15:00] network. I'm part of a big. big WhatsApp group that was of head teachers that were set up in COVID.
And that was, and that's been really helpful.
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** just bounces ideas off each other. And, and, and I'd like to think the people on the whole are, are, are honest and open [00:15:15] and, and, you know, trusting of each other just to share ideas. And particularly now in, you know, I'm not, I'm not sure how aware you are, but within the independent sector of education in England, it's quite challenging at the moment for a number of schools [00:15:30] because, because of the VAT on fees. And that's been, you know, that's been an interesting,
**David Chung:** Uh,
**Harry H:** an interesting challenge for, for some of the, particularly some of the smaller, uh, prep schools, which are the schools that go up to a up to 13. But [00:15:45] let's not get political by talking about VT. Let's talk about the other nice processes of education and tutoring and coaching.
**David Chung:** Yeah. Well, so let, let's kind of dive in a little bit to your, [00:16:00] your first experience coaching somebody. Um, because we, we briefly talked about that, uh, how you've changed as a coach from the first one to now. Um, but what was your first experience like [00:16:15] coaching somebody through, you know, how to be a head headmaster, head teacher?
**Harry H:** Wow. Gosh. Can I remember? There you go. That's my, my old brain working. I'm, I'm actually gonna answer two answer in two parts [00:16:30] here. So my first experience with with coaching was obviously on the course, and I honestly used to prepare crazy. Notes and, and, and, and almost like a script. [00:16:45] And, and of course, you know, you learn all this, you know, you, you learn it all.
You've got various, you know, whether it's the grow model or it's the rise model or whatever it might be. And of course then by now it, it's all in my head. You know, I, I know that and I know
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** I'm doing a [00:17:00] conversation how it then moves to the next stage. But, but it was very much, and I suppose like a, like any trade, you know, you, you are, you are wanting to get, I was wanting to get it right, so I was following
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** steps, but it was very green.
And, and [00:17:15] that was with, with two new heads who I'm still in touch with. And they were, they were really good guys and they were really appreciative of, and, and understanding that it was a, you know, I was a new coach and they were new head, so actually lovely to
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** But my first paying client [00:17:30] was a former pupil who's now in his forties. And, and
**David Chung:** Okay.
**Harry H:** And he wasn't in education. He is in, in, you know, he's in, as I say, the real world. and
**David Chung:** [00:17:45] Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** that was really different in that I was sitting alongside someone who wasn't in education but was a leader. And it's all the same, you know, the, the whole, the whole process of working alongside someone is, is, [00:18:00] I'm a real believer in that it's all about people.
It's all about how we trust each other. It's all about how, um, you know, egos, all about, um, trying to figure out people's places and how they, how they work [00:18:15] alongside each other. And, you know, they, the, the, the, um, lovely, the wonderful Bre Brown with her, lovely mnemonic of braving for how groups of people work together, you terms of boundaries and [00:18:30] responsibilities and accountability and all that kind of stuff.
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** Integrity and, and the vault. And I, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but, but it, but it's that, that whole thing of just sitting alongside someone and helping, helping them figure out how
**David Chung:** [00:18:45] Hmm.
**Harry H:** they know their piece in the puzzle and where they fit with others and, and, um, it is, it is interesting.
And, and so yeah, I, I was. I as, as a, as a new coach, as a, for, for new heads, it was very much, you know, with the, [00:19:00] with the two guys I was working with, it was very much helping them with things like, you know, running their first staff meeting or their, how they, how they do a governance report or what they do with, with how they deal with parents and emails [00:19:15] and, and, and all that kind of, you know, that, that kind of day to day stuff as well as their leadership team.
And I suppose it was, it was, you know, and I was, I was the current head at the time. whereas now on reflection it's much easier to, to [00:19:30] be a coach, having now, you know,
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** and, and, and not being, having to then go back and doing, do doing, um, basically what I was working alongside them, I was then doing in my own school, whereas now I'm just [00:19:45] working alongside so people in the real world then going from one to the next, to the next, to the next, rather than being. And the nitty gritty of being head teacher. So it's no, it's, it is a, it, it's, it's very re rewarding and, [00:20:00] and, uh, and, and a privilege, you know, it sounds, I suppose to quite, um, slightly naff or poetic on a, on a Tuesday morning as a beautiful sunny day. But it is, it's a real privilege to be alongside people helping them because, because you're, you know, it gets [00:20:15] emotional sometimes.
It's, you know, they're, they're bearing their soul and you are them. And, you know, I'm working with a couple of head teachers whose schools are closing. That's really hard. You know, they're, that that's really traumatic for them and it's really been really [00:20:30] tough for them. Um, and I hope I've
**David Chung:** Yeah,
**Harry H:** the support they need.
**David Chung:** I mean that, that has to be such a challenge for them, not just. In terms of like the stress, but [00:20:45] emotionally and psychologically, just because if, I mean, I would imagine that they're very emotionally attached to those, the schools that their coworkers and to the students, and then to have it being closed.[00:21:00]
Um, I'm sure that they're, they feel at some level even responsible for that, even though it may not be respons their responsibility. Right.
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** So how do you, what do you tell them [00:21:15] as they go through that? Because that's a, I think it's a, it's a little bit different than if you're in a business where like you're, that kind of businesses are shutting down because of whatever financial or whatever reasons.
But when it's a [00:21:30] school, how do you help them to, to process that, um, that difficulty, that life changing situation.
**Harry H:** So with, with those particular people, what my [00:21:45] role has been about has been helping them with their, with their day-to-day management, but also with the, with the pro, you know, the potential new jobs that they might be getting. and actually I was trying, what I've been really [00:22:00] trying to do is very, very much so, as you say, is, is to, is to help them not to realize that it mean it is beyond their control.
You know, the, the school is in that situation. It's not their fault, but they do. [00:22:15] They do.
**David Chung:** Right.
**Harry H:** you have, you have, they, they have huge responsibility. They feel it, but it's not the case. And I'm, you know, I'm just trying to sort of be alongside them to enable them, uh, to. To support their own staff teams, but also their [00:22:30] own wellbeing
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** you know, they have, whether it's guilt or whether they have the, the, you know, the, the feeling of responsibility just to try and whilst they, because they're giving out huge amounts of energy to their staff team and [00:22:45] their pupils and their parents. But I'm really there for them. And so I'm, so I'm doing my best to say, you know, this is, this is for you. here alongside you. And hopefully lifting them and giving them a safe space to [00:23:00] talk and to vent and to, and to, and to
**David Chung:** Right.
**Harry H:** to discuss, you know, what, what might be next and what needs to happen now. and it's, yeah, it's been, that's been quite a journey actually. [00:23:15] been, and, and it's, you know, they're, they're, they're going through a trauma. It is, it's a, you know, and I'm not a psychologist
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** to be one, but it's, it's been, so, I, yeah. What's my role? Being very much not necessarily [00:23:30] challenge.
' cause the,
**David Chung:** Hmm.
**Harry H:** my premise as a coach is, is support, challenge and guide. But with these particular people in their, in their school closures, it's been, I hope, I've certainly gone into it very much with the, uh, the idea of support. [00:23:45] And hopefully they'll
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** with, with the good jobs they deserve, but excuse me.
And their,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** and their
**David Chung:** Uh,
**Harry H:** too. And their, you know, their pupils too, and their, you know, the parents because it's, uh, you know, no
**David Chung:** yeah,
**Harry H:** wants to be in that [00:24:00] situation. Um, but I,
**David Chung:** you're right.
**Harry H:** closure in my first, in my very first job back in 1992. The, the school closed in 1994. was, it
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** an, an extraordinary experience as a [00:24:15] 24-year-old. in
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** and then suddenly the, the rug is pulled from under your feet and you are, you know, the school, the school was closed.
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** that was tough.
**David Chung:** Yeah, I can't imagine. 'cause e [00:24:30] especially if you're in a leadership role, you have to help people through their transition, but then you have to also think about yourself and your family and what is, what happens for you for your own transition. There's so many different facets to consider [00:24:45] and to process emotionally.
It's like, um, mentally, it's, uh, yeah, I, I'm glad that they have somebody like you who can, who can help them to work through that, to talk through it. Because if you try to [00:25:00] just do that on your own, that might become too much for one person to just handle on their own. So it's great that they have someone like you.
**Harry H:** You know, that's, that's kind to say that David a bit. And I think, I think that, you know, from the, from the beginning, because I probably had [00:25:15] about six sessions with both of them, but from the beginning it was very
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** to try and get them to understand and, and get them to process and to, to find their own solutions.
But it was very much the idea that, [00:25:30] 'cause you know, they, they were wanting to find jobs and they were wanting to find, you know, to find, um, solution to the situation. But I was just saying that you, you need, you, you can't find, don't, don't put yourself under that pressure at the moment, obviously, because
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** [00:25:45] they need to deal with the closing of the school and that, you know, they were, they were putting themselves under pressure to, you know, and, and, and it's, it, it, it's been really tough for them and I really do feel for them and, and, um, they'll be, they'll be good 'cause they're [00:26:00] both great people.
They'll be good, you know. But I'll try and say to you, don't worry about the
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** this stage. As in your next job
**David Chung:** Yeah,
**Harry H:** deal, deal with the here and now because it's really difficult for you to
**David Chung:** yeah,
**Harry H:** decisions about the future. And you know, they're great people. That'll [00:26:15] be, that'll
**David Chung:** yeah. Yeah.
Let, let's, let's transition a little bit, um, in terms of talk, let's talk a little bit about your, your coaching business, because [00:26:30] at the beginning, you, we, so in less than a year, right? 'cause you started in September. It is July now, you've worked with 30 clients, which is a huge number for any coach, uh, to do within a 12 [00:26:45] month period.
Um, what helped you to get 30 clients within that first year? What do you think made a big difference for you?
**Harry H:** It is actually probably about altogether now. I probably work with, with, with more than 40 at the [00:27:00] moment, but it's been, how have I done it? Through a combination of word of mouth, through a combination of big, big, big, pushing myself out there on LinkedIn
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** so [00:27:15] just out messages and people then contacting me via my website and, and then relentlessly when someone then contacts you and goes, oh, this looks interesting. then just [00:27:30] trying to find that balance of a potential lead. then, and not giving up, but not doing it in a really aggressive way. So the person might then get scared and think, who's this person who's really coming after me? [00:27:45] but, but trying to get the
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** of, of look, I can really be alongside you and try and be, be transformative and valuable and also great fun.
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** and
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** combination of, yeah, word of mouth, LinkedIn, [00:28:00] and. And recommendations, you know? So re recommendations have been good. You know, people have said, oh, you go and
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** that's, you know, he's, he's, he's your man. Which has been nice. and I think
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** I've, I've got a number of people who are [00:28:15] coaching me, who are, who are kind of like my coaches and my mentors.
I'm not gonna mention them 'cause there's too many of them, but, um, got, honestly, I've got sort of five or six really key people who are really key, who I can go and turn to [00:28:30] and say, you know,
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** Or, you know, what do you suggest or
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** you know, what, what? And, and they're, because they're, they're coaches themselves.
They come back and they ask me questions. They don't tell me because they're,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** you know, so they get me to, to come up with my [00:28:45] own, my own solutions and, and yeah, they're, you know, huge, excuse me, hugely valuable. So that's made me think
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** And you know, you have to be agile. You, you know, you change and you learn and, And I, and I, [00:29:00] look at what, what other people do. I mean, LinkedIn is an amazingly wonderful platform and I love it 'cause everyone's so lovely to each other all the time. It should just be called loving. You know, everyone's just like, oh, that's amazing. Oh, you are a, you know, which is really nice. 'cause actually we, our world needs a
**David Chung:** [00:29:15] Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** And, and it's just, you know, there's
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** you know, no one posts something and someone doesn't come back and go, well, it doesn't look very good. You're just like, oh, it looks brilliant, you know?
**David Chung:** Yeah,
**Harry H:** Um, but, but so I, so I suppose I've, I've, [00:29:30] in terms of agility, looked and learned and seen what people do little, you know, little, little
**David Chung:** yeah.
**Harry H:** can't, um, I, I noticed the other day, one particular coach posted out and whenever they post, what they do is they, they [00:29:45] put their post and then they write a comment on their post straight away, which is really clever. So it gets the
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** And so they might then have a, so it's a post on, a post or a comment on a post.
And that's, that just sort of gets it going, but.
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** I'm still learning so much. I mean, particularly [00:30:00] with LinkedIn, but yeah, it's, and
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** platform and that's been really helpful.
**David Chung:** So. So a couple of things there. One is you, it sounds like you were really aggressively [00:30:15] kind of, kind of pushing yourself out there, putting yourself on LinkedIn, uh, trying to talk to people about what you're doing, uh, with this whole new, you know, switch from education to coaching. Uh, and then also you were [00:30:30] talking to, or you have a group of coaches that you can go back to talking to, talk with when you have a problem or a situation, which I think really makes a lot of sense because we were talking earlier right about for [00:30:45] your, um, educational institution, right?
They got coaches for new headmasters.
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** you as a coach, having other coaches around you
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** who can actually help you, ask you questions about your business, how are you doing [00:31:00] things, having other coaches around you actually helps you to be able to build your business in a better way. Is that. Makes sense.
**Harry H:** very much so I, isn't it? The word aggression, isn't it? You know, sort of aggressively doing this. I, I'd like maybe more positively just doing [00:31:15] it or assertively, that's it. Um,
**David Chung:** I, I, I think aggressively, like talking about it is, or, uh, excitedly talking about what you're doing. I, I think it, it's about creating [00:31:30] visibility for yourself.
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** Um, because I, I think a lot of coaches, especially when they kind of start, um, they don't, they're not excited enough about what they're [00:31:45] doing.
Maybe that's the way to put it. They're, they're, they're not.
**Harry H:** Is it, is it doing it with, you know, with. Because I, I, a number of people come back to me and go, I love your energy on your post. And I, and I guess that's the, that's what
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** and do, is to push out [00:32:00] energy to, to push out. I mean, one of my clients said the other day, Harry, I need you in my ear every morning just to sort of go, CHCH, come on, you can do this.
Get on with it. And so I started and, and I will do, but it, but, but it's been crazy. But I started [00:32:15] doing Sherpa Speaks, which is kind of a, um, just a little video,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** done. I've done a couple already, and I need to do maybe, maybe two or three a week just, just focusing
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** key words that will help people just like a little trigger to get them [00:32:30] going. and last,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** we had the word enough and we had the word, I had the, I posted out the word enough and I posted out the word, um, enjoy. So just, you know, just at
**David Chung:** Well,
**Harry H:** our lives, we gotta just say enough, you know, you are, you are busy at the moment, and [00:32:45] I, you know, as I was suggesting with your,
**David Chung:** yeah.
**Harry H:** know, what you, what you're going through at the moment. Maybe just when you get on that plane, just sleep. Just it's enough. Close. The laptop,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** enough. Just
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** reset, and it's a great word. Enough. And, and of course, the second [00:33:00] and third letters of the word enough on No, no, no. Had enough. And anyway, so keep, I'll keep doing that. And, but yeah, energy, optimism, you know, interesting world. Maybe that's, that's the way, but [00:33:15] yeah, I'm not, I'm not challenging you about saying aggressively, but it is, you have to, you have to be out there because if not, people aren't gonna notice you, are you, you know? Are they rather,
**David Chung:** well, I, I mean, that I think is one of the first things that any business needs to [00:33:30] do is create visibility for themselves and be excited about what they're doing.
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** they're too afraid to talk about what they're doing in, in public, then no one's gonna know you're there. And so if you have a problem or you have [00:33:45] a something, you're, you need to, you, you know, if you are a coach that solves a problem, that works with a group of people.
**Harry H:** Hmm.
**David Chung:** can solve that person's problem, but they don't know you exist. You cannot help them.
**Harry H:** yeah,
**David Chung:** And I [00:34:00] think it's, you know, one of the coaches I talked to before said, you don't need to sell coaching. You need to invite people into, into coaching that you're doing. And so if, if you're in coaching to help people, [00:34:15] the only way you are going to be able to help people is if people know you are there and that you can help them if, if they don't know you're there.
It's like being the doctor on the plane when they, they say, Hey, is there a doctor on the plane? And if you don't [00:34:30] raise your hand, somebody's gonna be, you know, somebody needs help and they're not gonna get, so I, I think coaches need to be willing to kind of figuratively raise their hand [00:34:45] and, you know, tell people, Hey, I'm here.
I can help you if you need it.
**Harry H:** Yeah. yeah. Yeah.
**David Chung:** Um.
**Harry H:** a, that's a nice analogy. I like that.
**David Chung:** I just thought of that right now. I think
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** you're thinking about [00:35:00] soon. So, um, but I, I, I think that's really, 'cause when it comes to, uh, for a lot of coaches, I think when it comes to marketing and sales, um, sometimes they have negative [00:35:15] connotations of being salesy or, you know, marketing or, you know, like some, a, a lot of times I think of the, the salesman I think of like the used car salesman I see used to see on TV who's just trying to, [00:35:30] you know, kind of gug you for all the money that they can.
Right. And so I think there's a lot of negative connotations with sales, but I think for coaches, if your heart is I wanna be there for, for [00:35:45] helping to help people, then I. You just need to have that different perspective on it is I'm here to help people. For me to help people, I need to tell them I'm here and how I can help you.
Um,
**Harry H:** I mean, it's a big, it's a big,
**David Chung:** like,
**Harry H:** it's like, it's [00:36:00] basically just being a big show off. You know? You just gotta go look at me. Here I am. I can do this for you. It's, it's valuable and valuable and, you know,
**David Chung:** yeah.
**Harry H:** transformative. Um. And, and I can be here for you alongside you. I mean, one of the nicest things [00:36:15] is when,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** when I get someone in for a complimentary exploratory chat and they go, oh, I didn't know that.
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** Oh, that's interesting. And, and of course that's just, that's, it's a little bit like [00:36:30] going on the first date, isn't it? I mean, I can't remember that was so much, so many years ago. But it is, you know, you, you've gotta sort of get, get them interested, not talk too much, believe it or not.
'cause I do talk, but not talk too much, but just make, make people realize how, how valuable [00:36:45] and, and, and transformative it could be for them by having, having, you know, coaches like us alongside them. And, and so you're sowing a seed and then once you've done that, you
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** they, you know, they take a bite. I mean, funny enough, I had, I had [00:37:00] someone
**David Chung:** Well that,
**Harry H:** I had someone the other day, the day who, who. I think it was my quickest ever. And it was, it was a conversation that was less than 25 minutes. And, and
**David Chung:** mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** they've, they've disappeared. I [00:37:15] had, I had a little bit of contact. I think they're just so busy and, and so now it, it's, and I've had a few of LinkedIn with them and, you know, messages and everything, but I'm hoping to get this person over the line.
'cause they
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** they need coach, [00:37:30] me, whoever it might be, because they're, the pressure that this person was under was basically
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** in 25 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. I need you. Okay. Yeah. Brilliant. What do I need to do? Sign up. Fantastic. then he is gone. [00:37:45] I hope he's okay.
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** We've had, we've had communication,
**David Chung:** I mean, yeah, I think, I mean, with, with the world the way it is and the busyness of everything, [00:38:00] it's easy. But that also happens where people can seem really excited and then they fall, kind of fall off. Um, hopefully. Yeah, if, if they really need coaching, hopefully they can work with you or another coach, [00:38:15] um, to work through whatever it is that they've, you know, that they're trying to work through.
Um,
**Harry H:** It is a, it's a big step to
**David Chung:** know, I was just one,
**Harry H:** Sorry, you go on. I was just saying, I was just building on what you were saying. It's a, it's a [00:38:30] big step to commit to, you know, it's all very well saying, oh yeah, this sounds great, and Oh yeah, I can see it'll be valuable. Oh, I can see it'll be, you know, transformational for me and everything. but
**David Chung:** yeah.
**Harry H:** that conversation actually then [00:38:45] committing and it's like starting anything, you know, you,
**David Chung:** Yeah,
**Harry H:** you know, with I, I'd love, I'd love to. I played, I played an instrument years ago, and I've got in, you know, in that, in that room over there, there's a, there's a clarinet in there. I'd [00:39:00] love to have clarinet lessons, but I, you know, just, just going, going from loving to have it, to actually doing it is a, you know, or like going to the
**David Chung:** doing it
**Harry H:** like, you know, I'd love to go to the gym, love to, but it's taking that thing to [00:39:15] sign up and then pay is very different. And it's, it's, um, and so I, so I
**David Chung:** and then,
**Harry H:** why
**David Chung:** yeah.
**Harry H:** are, get very excited and then, I've gotta pay, have I, oh, I've gotta actually commit, you know, 90 minutes every two weeks. Oh. [00:39:30] You know, and that's, that's totally
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** Yeah. But once people get into it, oh, I wish I'd done this long, long, long time ago. Like, like anything. Um,
**David Chung:** Yeah, any, anything that requires getting started and you know, especially [00:39:45] when it requires money and a down payment or whatever,
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** it, there's a hurdle that's not that they have to overcome to get started. Right. But once it gets started, then it gets easier. Uh,
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** I totally understand that. [00:40:00] Um, and I was gonna say, uh, before was that, you know, when people start talking to you about coaching, right?
There is the whole coaching concept of like [00:40:15] coaches and business or coaching, uh, professionals. I think it's a very, like, there's so many different types of coaches out in the world that there are different ideas of what a [00:40:30] coach is or what a coach does. And so when people find you, depending on how they find you, I.
There could be some misconceptions about what exactly it is that you do, and so [00:40:45] what, what do you find is that people generally think that you do do, and how do you, or what, what do you have to kind of redefine for them about what it is that you do and how do you do that for them?
**Harry H:** [00:41:00] I think people come to coaching and they think it's mentoring. So
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** kind of the misconception. 'cause that's one of the first questions I would ask is your experience of coaching [00:41:15] and do you know the difference between coaching and mentoring? And I, and, and a number of people don't know the difference and, and, and a number of people don't know what, um, what it really involves.
And I think they just sort of think that, you know, you [00:41:30] are, you are there in a, in a kind of a ular way, telling them what to do. Oh yeah. You are a head teacher, so you are a leader so you can just tell me what to do. And it's, it's anything but that. So it's, it's breaking that. [00:41:45] Understanding or that lack of understanding, really just to say, look, I'm, I'm gonna be sitting alongside you and I'll be prompting and I'll be probing and I'll be asking you questions, it'll be very much you bringing your sessions what you want to do and what you want to [00:42:00] discover.
You know, let's say for example with those, those guys whose, whose school's closing down. So it's very much about, you know, the day to day, but also the, you know, the future. So, you know, what, what the future might hold. Or there might be someone who [00:42:15] is, uh, you know, I'm one of my, I'm trying to think of another client I'm working alongside.
I'm working alongside, somewhat someone who's a sort of essentially a headhunter and just dealing with their, you know, the way that they work with their, with their team [00:42:30] and their group and, and working out their values. And so there's people, people, I hope I'm answering your question, but, but people come and it, and it's. Making sure that they understand what coaching really does [00:42:45] involve. And then there is pure coaching in terms of sitting alongside them and helping and supporting and guiding and challenging and prompting and probing and asking the right questions. But then other people want particular [00:43:00] bespoke sessions. So people might say to me, look, I don't want to go through anything today, but can you do a session with me on public speaking? Or can you do a session on, um, the management of time, not time management. We flip it. So it's the [00:43:15] management of time as in your in control of time. Can we do something on, uh. Prioritization can we do? And I've, I've, I've been doing, I've been doing a session with, with a head teacher who wanted some help on public speaking. [00:43:30] I've done, I do, I do a number, a number of people applying for jobs. So we do loads on, on stuff to do with their presentation and their interview technique. And so, so it's a combination of pure coaching and, and also [00:43:45] just bespoke sessions that they want. But I tend to do them rather than just necessarily me teaching. It tends to be done from a, there's a, there's a lovely session we do on trust and that's very much based on the Brenny brown [00:44:00] model of braving that I spoke, the mnemonic braving that I spoke about earlier.
So I might just throw an idea out and then we'll have a discussion about it. There's, there's, I dunno if you've heard of, um, and I dunno who designed it, but there's a, there's a brilliant, [00:44:15] um, model called it, or, or rather, um. Uh, uh, uh, and that maybe it's just a diagram called The Ladder of Inference, and essentially it is the way that when someone says something or, or. [00:44:30] Announces something, there's a, there's a pool of observable data at the bottom. So you, you know, you say something in a meeting and you have your pool of observable data. And as you go further up the ladder, it gets, it gets interpreted [00:44:45] less and less and less. So by the time it gets to the top the ladder, the ladder's got narrower and it's become a real narrative.
And, and the story's been changed and there are assumptions made. And so the idea is, I, I would do that with [00:45:00] a, with a, with a leader and just say, look, you've gotta be really, really, what, what do you think this means? And of course they'll work it out. So it's a discussion point, and it's the idea that, that often we say things in meetings or, or, or we in our delivery [00:45:15] and it gets misinterpreted, misconstrued by people, then they then talk about that with other people.
So just trying to teach people to, to really be, be really clear with what you're saying. Be, make sure people understand, test, [00:45:30] test, that you're, you know, you, you are, that they've understood what you are saying and what you are delivering. And then if it doesn't, you then help them back down the ladder to get back to the pool of observable data that this is actually what I said. So that's, that's quite useful. And, you know, we look at, well I look at [00:45:45] very, you know, we, I often will put a, an illustration up and we'll just have a discussion about, you know, the, there's a thing called the hourglass of life that we look at, or the seesaw of life, you know, whether the optimism, pep pessimism, you know, what, what, where, where we're [00:46:00] sitting.
So combination of, of, of hope, hopefully letting people understand what coaching is, how they can be coached, and what I can do. But also some, some bespoke sessions too. I think that was your question.
**David Chung:** [00:46:15] Well, I mean, yeah, so I think the question, the question was like, what is it, what is coaching and what are, what do people think coaching is? And I think kind of got there, uh, and your coaching style, I think, and also coaching [00:46:30] is different between different coaches. Right. But your style of coaching is really challenging and helping people through cha supporting challenging.
And what was the third thing
**Harry H:** Guide.
**David Chung:** you said? Um. Support, challenging. And [00:46:45] then you also added bespoke, um, coaching on like public speaking and other things like that. Um, and I think that's good. It's, it's because there's so many different types of coaches, the whole industry is very [00:47:00] difficult
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** for just somebody who's not a part of it to understand like, what am I getting from this?
And so I think even more important is like with your website or with your LinkedIn profile, is to be really clear about when you work [00:47:15] with a coach like Harry, this is what you're gonna get from those, that coaching experience. Or else people will just kind of be like, am I getting an LP or something else along the lines of that coaching.
[00:47:30] Um. We, we've kind of also talked about the, some of the challenges that have faced some of the coaches or some of the challenges that leaders have faced that you are working with. But what are some of the [00:47:45] stories of growth and development from your clients that you have, um, over this, you know, your time as a coach, uh, how have you helped people and, and kind of transformed and helped them?
**Harry H:** Pass. One would be [00:48:00] sitting alongside someone the other day helping them get a job. So they were, they were working in a particular place and they were to get out of that particular place and, and get a, a, a particular job in a particular place. I, I'm gonna [00:48:15] keep it sort of confidential and. They, they, they need, this particular person just needed the, I suppose, the, the confidence to realize they could go for this particular job at, at this particular time.
And [00:48:30] so did lots of work on interview practice, lots of work on presentation practice. But, but a lot of it was just about self-belief and about, you know, you, you, you need to wake up and you need to walk into that particular building when you go [00:48:45] for the interview as that particular leader within that. establishment. There you go. and they, and they, they eventually got the, got the job, which is really brilliant. And they're starting in a, in a couple of months at this new place. And [00:49:00] it was really rewarding hearing them say, and, and, and they, and they, they, these were their exact words. I couldn't have done any of this without you.
And it was just, you know, yes, they could have done, of course, they could have done, but it, it was just nice to be alongside [00:49:15] this particular person and give them the confidence and the wings to fly, which is what you want. And, you know, so, so that, that would be one particular example. it's, I, I would like to think that as a, as a coach, 'cause we, I do, [00:49:30] I suppose my bespoke process that I really offer is, I really get people to think deeply about what their values are. So I sort of pushed out myself as a values driven coach when I was [00:49:45] head teacher. The values in my school, our school was very much generous, adventurous, ingenious, and curious. And you can hear there's an us at the end of all of that. 'cause the idea that we're all in it together. It's all about us. those four [00:50:00] words were very much part of our decision making and the way we ran the school. And they're very much part of my values now and I. I will work with someone to help them understand what their values are [00:50:15] and to try and get them to, so might get someone to transform their understanding of their values. And therefore that's been a good approach with a couple of people as well.
You know, they've been very grateful for, for the work that we've done [00:50:30] with them, understanding their values so they can then bring that to work rather than just going to work, but going to work with real purpose because they understand what their values are you know, so there's, there's been a number of people who've got, got jobs, which has been really [00:50:45] exciting and. And then there's, there's also a number of people that haven't got jobs, and that's, that's been really hard work. So they've gone for jobs and they, they've, they've come second or they've come third, and I, and I just think, gosh, they must have been, they must have been beaten by really good [00:51:00] people because, because a couple of the, these, these guys are royal class acts, and they, and they just haven't quite got over the line, you know, and you don't know what, what the other person is like or how they've actually performed on the day.
But I think a lot of, a lot of the work has been, [00:51:15] it, it's, I suppose someone, someone said the other day, which is a really helpful phrase, they said, thank you, you've pumped up my tires. And I've never heard that before. And actually it's a, it's a great analogy [00:51:30] and it's the idea that, you know, you've, you've, you've. talk about, you know, the wind, the wind in your wings or, but, but to say, you know, you've, thank you, you've pumped up my tires. I just thought, yeah, thanks. Okay, that's all right. You know, and again, that's the, you, you can't go [00:51:45] on your journey with a flat tire, can you? You can't, you can't go out and, and, and hope to, to achieve what you want to achieve with, with, um, with low, with, with, with not enough, um, air to push you on your journey.
[00:52:00] So, you know, yeah, working, working alongside people, helping them for their, you know, get different jobs, understand their values, and just generally being, being confident, not arrogant, but confident that, that they can do the job that [00:52:15] they are looking to do. I, I also work with, I have a couple of younger guys I work with. And, and just give it. I have a couple of guys who are still at school and their parents have just been in touch and just have said, 'cause you know, they, they, I've known them for years and they've just [00:52:30] said, you know, can you just, with we're, we are struggling a little bit with so and so at home, can you just sort of be alongside them? And, and one of them, we actually did a, yesterday I did a, we did, we did a RISE conversation. So we, you know, we reviewed everything that they've been [00:52:45] getting up to Recently. We did a big inquiry, you know, so we had facts. Then we did a big inquiry about, you know, what, what they could have done. And then we did the, the s which is the, which we sort of designed, which is the, um, statement of success.
I will do this [00:53:00] and then, and then find the E, which was the. the just of the execution. So the actions that they've actually gotta take, and they ended up with a big a three spreadsheet that they've now got a whole load of goals set out there for them to do. And so that's [00:53:15] quite exciting. That's quite transformational. it means I can give them a good, a good nag the next session. I see them and hear them, but yeah, so,
**David Chung:** So is that like a,
**Harry H:** so again, I missed that bit. Is that like [00:53:30] a
**David Chung:** so were they like university age, those students?
**Harry H:** No, these guys are, they're, they're 15.
**David Chung:** Oh, okay. So much younger than I was expect because having like goals for your life and having that clarity at an age, [00:53:45] like at of high school is, I don't think many kids have that. So that's really impressive and I, I would imagine.
**Harry H:** Well, I hope so because I, and I think, I mean, I, I've, as, as, um, [00:54:00] as a teacher and there's a great guy I worked with called Des, who a few years ago, I mean, this is years and years ago when I was at school in Oxford, called The Dragon. And he had a very, um, brilliant process for his, for our two tees in our [00:54:15] house in, in, in Oxford. And he, he taught me this whole process of goal setting and, and, um, you know, if you aim at nothing, you hit it. It's that kind of premise. And ever and ever since then, since working alongside Dez, I've, you [00:54:30] know, I've, I've done this with, with my, my pupils. We used to do it with, with some of the staff.
We'd set, you know, set targets for the, for the leadership team, for the, you know, for the term. I used to set myself targets and, and I. And it, and it worked. You know, why you, you think [00:54:45] we do it for as grownups, why can't we do it when, when we're younger? so it's, and it just makes you a bit more accountable. And so therefore, these particular guys who have been a bit drifty in what they've been doing, um, both of them are coming up to [00:55:00] GCSEs. So it's quite a crucial time of their lives. And, and it's just being alongside someone and it's, you know, it's very different. It's, it's, you know, they're not in work. It's, it's trying to get them to, manage their day, manage their life, manage their work. [00:55:15] Um, yeah.
**David Chung:** Well, I, I mean, I'm, I'm sure then for those boys or. Students working with you [00:55:30] to figure out and understand what their goals are, will drive and create a lot of clarity for them that their peers won't or don't have. Um, I would love to have [00:55:45] another conversation with you on how you go about doing that, because I think that would be really transformational.
Um, but that, I think that would be something we can do at another time. I would love to know a little bit transition [00:56:00] into talking about your business. Is that okay?
**Harry H:** Yeah,
**David Chung:** Okay. So currently, currently you're running your business as a solo coach. Correct.
**Harry H:** Yeah. [00:56:15] Yeah.
**David Chung:** What has been the most rewarding part of running that your business?
**Harry H:** So again, David, I missed that bit. What has been the most.
**David Chung:** Rewarding part of running your [00:56:30] own business.
**Harry H:** The, in all, in all honesty, seeing, seeing not the, the growth and the volume of my clients, but seeing the growth of them as [00:56:45] individuals, and that is the really rewarding thing. So whether it's this per this person getting that job and the, you know, the joy in his voice as he left me that voice note saying, I, you know, I couldn't have done any of this without you.
So that, that [00:57:00] someone being pumping up their tires, that that's really rewarding. And it, yeah, it's, and it, and it's it's really rewarding when, sorry, my throat, I got a little frog in my throat today. It's, it's really rewarding [00:57:15] when. When you, when, when one gets, when I get a client who's, you know, who basically signs on, that's, that's really exciting because, you know, you're starting something new with someone new. And, and I suppose that the reverse of [00:57:30] that is it's when, when people come to the end of their eight or their 12 sessions you, you know, they, and you know, that's, that's them and they've gone and they, you know, they, they, they've done what they needed to do here. and then, then it's [00:57:45] lovely. Then it's really rewarding.
Likewise, when people then resign. so people, I mean, I've, I've got, I've got, um, I've got four ex pupils who are clients, so who are in their thirties and the one who's [00:58:00] in their, you know, who's just 40. And that's really rewarding. And it, and it's really funny. So a couple of them go, hi, sir. And they're still calling that, which is really funny. But it, you know, they're now, they're now grown up. They're doing really well and [00:58:15] they, you know, they're forward thinking, they're ambitious. They just want a little bit more and challenge and it's just, it's a real to be part of their lives of what they're doing. So that's, you know, that's, that's, that's really exciting and really lovely to be [00:58:30] part of, of that having, and it's kind of, we, we've, we, we sort of joke that this is kind of like chapter two. Chapter one was when, you know, when they were, when we were, when they were at school. This was the same school in Oxford, so maybe they, yeah, there you go. That was, that was the, [00:58:45] the goal setting school in Oxford, the dragon in Oxford. Very forward thinking school And then this is now chapter two, and one of them's just come to the end of, of their eight sessions they've, that they've signed up for and they just [00:59:00] said, right.
I'm gonna have a little pause for the moment 'cause I'm, I'm moving on to this. And, uh, but we'll start, we will start chapter three in due course, you know, and that will be really exciting. So yeah, so a combination of seeing the change in people and likewise getting people to [00:59:15] sign and then begin because every client's different and every client adds, you know, I get the opportunity to work with some really fantastic people.
You know, whether it's, whether it's people who are, uh, you know, list of head teachers or people who are working in, you know, in the financial [00:59:30] industry or, or people who are just about to start GCSEs. You know, it's, it's, it's a real, it's, it's really, really exciting.
**David Chung:** Um, on the, on the other side [00:59:45] of that, in terms of your business, what have been some of the challenges that you were expecting to face, and what were some of the challenges that you weren't prepared for Well, while building your business this last [01:00:00] year?
**Harry H:** So I suppose I was, I was always expecting that it's not gonna be a regular income. And so that's a real challenge that you are, that I wasn't getting a regular income. You know, I, I taught for 33 years. [01:00:15] Every month I got paid a certain amount some of it would then go into a pension. Some of it would then go into a, you know, na in, into, into savings and all that kind of stuff, and then whatever.
But, but now [01:00:30] it's so, so that, that has been, you know, that's, that's been interesting. But, but like, I, I think what I, the, the, the, the real challenge has been whilst you know, you, you kindly. Spoke about [01:00:45] the fact that I've got, you know, 30 plus clients. but what you have to really realize is that it's not just about, you know, harvesting those, you using a farming analogy, you've gotta keep sewing all the time. [01:01:00] whilst you are looking after the guys you are working with, you've gotta get new guys as well. And that's terms of being a one man band, in terms of being a solo coach. You know, you're doing every, you know, I'm doing everything. So I'm, I, I've, you know, I've [01:01:15] gotta constantly think, right, I've gotta market, I've gotta put a LinkedIn post out. got to, I've got to make sure that I, you know, my, my 30 clients are all, you know, and I, and we do a lot of what I do, a lot of WhatsApping. [01:01:30] So it might be a, you know, some good luck in this, or thinking of you today, or whatever it might be. You know, if you and I might send, remind them about what their values are.
So it's, it's kind of managing a lot of people, also trying to get new people [01:01:45] in, you know, so sewing, getting the new guys in to be part of the, because obviously those guys are going to reach the end of their eight or their 12 sessions and, and they, you know, they've done their stuff so they're then being constantly replaced.
So it's, [01:02:00] yeah, that was, I, I perhaps wasn't, what you mustn't do is get really excited thinking, yeah, I've got 33 clients, this is amazing. Or 35, whatever it might be. Because, because they're not gonna be there forever. It'd be, it'd be great if they
**David Chung:** [01:02:15] Right.
**Harry H:** because the long term, that's really lovely.
You know, when, when you know you are working,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** only done this for a year, but you know, a couple of my guys I've had the whole time. You know who, you know,
**David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
**Harry H:** they've renewed, which is really wonderful. And it would [01:02:30] be, you know, to have a, you know, a long term, long term relationship because you just keep building and building and [01:02:45] building.
**David Chung:** Yeah. Um, in, in this age of technology where it's changing almost daily to weekly now, uh, with, with new technologies, with AI and things like that, [01:03:00] are you using any systems or tools to help you grow your coaching practice now?
**Harry H:** Yeah, so, so chat, GGPT, GTP, and, and then various other, you know, recording systems, whether it's Otter [01:03:15] or copilot. Um, but yeah, chat, GTP, that's, you know, that's, that's really helpful just in the, in the way that the old Google was, you know, you'd, you'd, you'd ask a few little questions for research and everything.
So, yeah, so I use that and I use [01:03:30] various different recording processes, which is really good for meetings because it means, I mean, whilst I do also write down notes, but it's very good for recording meetings and then, then you can make sure that, that the focus is [01:03:45] completely on the client rather than having to necessarily write down notes, which might then necessarily not be quite what was said.
And I know that, that, you know, the AI sometimes does make mistakes and you have to check it, but, but it's been really useful and it's very useful for [01:04:00] meeting summaries and very useful for, um. Um, you know, for the actions that follow, because at the end of a session, I, I always give it, this is the classical teacher in me, will give a coaching record, which is either a one or two [01:04:15] page, um, summary of what we talked about.
And, and it's always got on there, their, their values as a reminder at the top. And then the, the main premise of, I suppose what we talked about. And then, but, but the most [01:04:30] important thing are within there is their actions. So what actions that they are going to be accountable to, which we then go back at the beginning of the next session to go, have you done this?
Did you do that? How did you find this? What was that like? [01:04:45] Was that useful? So, you know, so it's an ongoing process. It's not just a nice discussion that would happen. And then we come, you know, we come to another discussion the next, know, next fortnight and another discussion. No, there, there's, there's, it's. [01:05:00] It's leading to something, you know, so there's, and there's, and, and they've all got own, you know, their own essentially, essentially their own virtual file and their, their sessions in there with, with, [01:05:15] with, um, obvious steps from one to the, to the next.
**David Chung:** Um, just looking back, um, and thinking about the journey that you've [01:05:30] taken over this last year, what is one piece of advice that you would give someone who's just at the beginning of their coaching journey?
**Harry H:** [01:05:45] Okay. One piece of advice is really hard, so I'm gonna try and frame it into two or, but in, in one word. In one word, enjoy. Because it's a real privilege to be [01:06:00] working alongside all these other people, and it's really easy to put, put oneself as a coach, under great pressure in that you've gotta work every hour that, you know, God's given us. And you know, you've gotta go out and you've gotta put these [01:06:15] great LinkedIn posts and you've gotta, you know, it's right to make mistakes. You know, sometimes I, you know, good, great guy comes back to me and goes, I think you meant to write this, and I'll just go back and edit and it, and it, and it doesn't matter. No, that's fine. You know, we're [01:06:30] human. So yeah, I would definitely say enjoy it and don't related to that. If, if, you know, if you want to take the morning off work, you know, because we're so conditioned to working all the time or we're so conditioned on, [01:06:45] on. You know, you are, you are nine hours ahead of me, aren't you?
Where you are on the other side of the world, and, and, and I know you, you often work late into the night to, to fit in with, with the rest of the world. But I would, I would just say. [01:07:00] Yeah. If you are, if you are your own boss, be your own boss. So look after yourself and, and therefore enjoy it. You know, too, too often in work, we, and I, and I look back on my time and I, I [01:07:15] didn't put my family first and, and I, and I did work sometimes stupid hours and get stressed and, and I, you know, again, that's something that, that I work on with my clients and just try and get that balance [01:07:30] right and, and the word of enough, you know, it, it, it's enough.
You've done enough. You know, and that's not saying you've taken, you've made shortcuts, but there's only so many times you can write a presentation. There's so many times you can look at an email, prepare for this or do that. You know, [01:07:45] so trust, trust yourself. But yeah, the one word would be just sure you, whatever you do, and there will be tough times and there will be challenging times and there will be thinking, gosh, I have, you know, I've only had four meetings this week. my, my sweet spot is a is [01:08:00] is between 10 and 15 meetings a week. And so that's what I, that's what I try and aim for. sometimes I go under and sometimes I go over and I know when I go over that it's been too much because it's kind of like, whoa, hang on, this is what I was like when I was working full time.
[01:08:15] 'cause it's like, it's relentless. So, okay. I, yeah. The one, one word, just enjoy, enjoy what you're doing because you know, the, the old phrase, you only get one life and all that. But, but it is true. It is. It's, I mean, I, [01:08:30] remember a long time ago saying, someone said, do you, 'cause I play golf, I love golf. I, I could be a lot better than I am. But someone said to me, do you love it? I said, I would play every day if I could. Now, I, I could play every day now, but I don't, and I haven't played [01:08:45] for about two months. And how ridiculous is that? 'cause I'm my own boss, maybe I'm not necessarily doing what I'm sort of saying I should do. But, yeah, enjoy. That would be the, that would be the one
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** and that's the one [01:09:00] word.
**David Chung:** Okay. Um, is there, so now that you're kind of coming to your first year of coaching, is there anything, or thinking about for your next year of coaching, is there [01:09:15] any new goals or projects that you're excited about for yourself?
**Harry H:** I, I think what I'd like to do I need, I need, I need a bigger chat with my financial advisor because [01:09:30] that's, again, as a, as a new business owner, you have to be savvy on this. And I'm, and I'm, I'm, I've never been that savvy on my finance, you know, I'm, I'm making money, it's all good, but, but I could be a lot more savvy with it.
So that would be one thing for the next year. [01:09:45] also what I'd like to do is, because it's been very, I suppose it's been very reactive at the moment, so I've been building the business from nothing. And what would be really nice and my goals for year [01:10:00] two would be to be more kind of, I suppose. H ha ha having a, a, a, a better rhythm whereby I have lots of, you know, [01:10:15] my pursuit of the ideal week, 10 to 15 clients every week. That would look great, you know, with, with, with, um, some, some time off for holidays as well. But just that, that, that rhythm that that's what I'm aiming for. Will I get there this year?
I hope so. [01:10:30] so. But you've gotta keep sewing whilst harvest harvesting, you know, so that's the, the ever challenge the ever, you know, the never ending challenge. But it'll be, it'll be okay, you know, in the old, the, the phrase we always use, we'll get there, you know, and we will, we will. It'll be, you know, [01:10:45] I'm confident it'll be, it will work, but I would, yeah.
So more chat with the finance. Um, you know, I've got a good accountant in, in where I live near, near where I live, but also just a, a nice, [01:11:00] a nicer rhythm. But that will, and that will come. It's gotta come because, because the, because of that, you know, it'll, it'll sort itself out, whereas it's lots of, um,
**David Chung:** Yeah.
**Harry H:** trying to get more people.
**David Chung:** [01:11:15] Well, Harry, thank you so much for this conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I think I've, I've learned a lot from your experience and from what you're doing, and it, for someone, again, for someone who's only [01:11:30] been in coaching for, for a year full time, I think you're making great strides and I, I think there's.
More than ample opportunity for you to, to figure out, and, and maybe you need to just spend some time for yourself is, [01:11:45] you know, figure out your own goal, right?
**Harry H:** Yeah.
**David Chung:** And how are you gonna hit the goals and those milestones. But I think that what you're doing is great and very needed, especially in education. Um, especially with [01:12:00] as you are, you know, talking about how things are changing in the UK and you know, how everything else aside things are changing in this world.
Um, and so people definitely need the [01:12:15] support of coaches like yourself, uh, to, to handle this. So I'm looking forward to hearing more about your work and how things progress over the next years. And I'm just appreciative again of your time today. Thank you so [01:12:30] much.
**Harry H:** Good. David, thank you very much and, and hope all goes well in the next few weeks and let's stay in touch. But no, thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to share my story with you. So take care. Bye now. [01:12:45] Done.