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For so many modern, driven women, life is about being more than one thing. We’re multidimensional—and so are our conversations. We carry multiple identities; we can be both mother and artist; both attorney and entrepreneur. Both clinician and CEO. Both humble and proud. Life for women like us is about both. About…all of the above. It’s about the “and”...
104_BurnOutFreeBiz
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the And She Spoke podcast. I'm Jeni Barcelos, and I'm joined with my co-host Sandy Connery. Hey, Sandy. Hi Jeni. Hi everyone. All right, Sandy. So this episode is all about how to build a burnout free business. This is one of our loftiest goals that we have for ourselves and our clients. Yes. And I'm excited to share our lessons learned and our strategies here with our listeners.
[00:00:24] Yeah, I think we've been talking about this. Certainly we have been thinking about this, um, 2020. Was, uh, as we've said in previous, uh, episodes, was a really difficult year, and sort of our, and she spoke 2.0 if you will, is, is us being much more transparent and honest about what is really happening behind these scenes.
[00:00:44] And so in preparation for this, I just like, this is a really big deal, like a really big deal to be able to go into business. and have the mindset or even open to the possibility that you can [00:01:00] build a business and it mean, and it not mean that you're gonna burn out. That burnout is not inevitable. And I just think the chatter on the internet, the memes that are out there, the conversations we have with our clients, that I think a lot of women, specifically women, really believe that burnout, you know, is kind of part of the deal.
[00:01:22] And we're here to say that it's. . Yeah. You know, and I think that that word hustle gets thrown around. Yes. A lot. Which we talk about and you know, we incorporate that word. Yeah. Into this very podcast. And I think by juxtaposing hustle with joy from the very beginning mm-hmm. , we've tried to create balance and so that it's not so far over on the hustle side, but you know, so many folks just have such a negative association with that entire.
[00:01:47] Yeah, the, well, the hustle has been kind of like taken over by hustle culture, right? Yeah. So hustling is like a very negative, um, connotation. You know, I think hustling means like you're [00:02:00] super, you know, you're doing work from a place of. Grasping and hoping and panic and scarcity and lack and inadequacy.
[00:02:11] Like the work is driven by that and that's what it feels. Very hustley. So it's interesting, as you said, we've used like joy and hustle as our sign off on our emails for like eight years. It was before it even. Mm-hmm. was a word that was commonly used. I think we used hustle as. A beautiful way to frame work.
[00:02:30] Right? Like, we're gonna hustle. Yeah. We're just gonna like hustle. We're not gonna, you know, grind, you know, nose to the grindstone, we're gonna hustle. And it was, was meant to be like an in between word, as you said, but I think pop culture has sort of taken over that word. You know, I really think about the word and I think about why I like it.
[00:02:47] And it's because of like disco or something. a hustle. Hustle. Like I just, that's what I think about. I don't have this like, oh, this, it's fun. Like, it's like a work with fun, do the [00:03:00] hustle. You're moving, you're getting somewhere. Like, it's like a, a sense of movement for me. Yes. That's how I feel about it.
[00:03:06] Yes. . Yes. So, yeah, so I don't know how we're going to, if, how we do that going forward now that they're sort of, I think like there's this new connotation. But, um, so I, I first wanna say that. Um, a burnout free business is possible. Mm-hmm. . And I think from, uh, as a mindset coach, I really want people to begin to define what, even if we just use the word work, what is working?
[00:03:36] Mean to you? Like what's your concept around that? Because I've just been hearing lately a lot of phrases like, I don't wanna do the work. There's too much work. The work is too hard. I will, if I go back to working so hard or hustling, I will get sick. Yeah. I think that's not a helpful way to think about it.
[00:03:59] No, but [00:04:00] no, but it's default, right? It's like it's what our brain feeds us and we accept it as truth and we don't question it. So I want this episode to be like, just start to question what are you afraid of? What? What does working hard mean to you? If you were to work hard, what would happen? . Mm-hmm. . You know what's so interesting, Sandy, is, I haven't talked to you about this yet, but there's a YouTuber that I watch, I watch a lot of like former lawyer YouTubers, which is my people, and there's a woman, I can't think of her channel right now, but I'll make sure we put it in the show notes.
[00:04:35] And she talked about leaving a a quarter million dollar a year salary to become a YouTuber and why she left and. Sh The whole story is really interesting. The whole, it's like, I think her most popular episode of it has like 4 million views, and she talks about how she just worked all the time. Like she'd go on a trip and sh it'd be like her birthday trip.
[00:04:57] Yes. And she'd through her own birthday dinner and [00:05:00] she talked about like, You know, tw like, um, her company glorified, her firm glorified all-nighters and how everyone had extra clothes in the office. And then she talked about why she actually quit cuz her grandfather was very ill and was basically on his deathbed.
[00:05:14] And she went to see him and she told her boss she could, she asked for an extension on an assignment and he said, we pay you this much for a reason. And she said though, that phrase like instantly changed her life. Mm. And I just, I guess for me, like you get to decide as an entrepreneur, you don't have that controlling force in your life.
[00:05:36] That boss figure that's telling you you can't go say goodbye to your grandfather in the hospital. You don't have those things. So everything is self enforced and you have to decide like you and I would never miss our birthday. Dinner or trip because we needed to work. Like we get to make those decisions only during Covid.
[00:05:55] Only during Covid, like the dark, dark days of early covid We did, but yes, [00:06:00] generally. Yeah, because it was felt like an actual emergency, right? Like we were definitely pulled into a situation where our presence in what we were doing was required. Yeah. Arguably. Right? So, so like sure, there's always a time for that, right?
[00:06:12] And anything that you do, whether it's parenting or being a friend or whatever, like you're gonna get called in. For these uncomfortable moments where your presence is needed, mm-hmm. , but the rest of the time, , it's totally on your terms. And I love that's, I love that you frame it as a mindset issue because it totally is.
[00:06:31] It's absolutely your decision as an entrepreneur to define the terms under which you work. Right. And I think that's what draws people in, uh, women into entrepreneurship initially. But then I think there's sort of a step where they. , oh crap, this is gonna take some work and some effort. And then all those, um, thoughts from before about what working hard means come up.
[00:06:56] Mm-hmm. . And then you're right back to like the, the sort of, so what [00:07:00] happens for women entrepreneurs is they are like, whoa, I don't wanna work that hard cuz that'll make me sick, or I'll, I'll burn out or whatever. And so they don't, they pause and hold and stop taking action and then they're frustrated because they're not making enough money and, you know, so.
[00:07:16] If they're given a solution, they're like, oh, that's just too much work. Right. And what they're, what they mean by that is that that will somehow be harmful to me if I were to go and do all that work. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so, Sandy, okay, go. Yep. No, go on. I have a lot to say about that, but go keep going with the theory.
[00:07:36] Okay. But I just, but I also want, so again, like. We we're, we want this episode to be sort of like a pause and like define what is your concept of work for yourself. And I just want to, um, talk about like some of the other thoughts that I've experienced, I know you've experienced. And again, we see in our, in our clients, um, that can cause this [00:08:00] feeling of like on the edge of burnout or exhaustion.
[00:08:04] And I think. This is really a, a mindset thing, as we've just said. Like it's like you're thinking about work because you are really, really stuck in scarcity. I have to work to get the clients to make the money. Now I need to do everything now. I need to, you know, if I'm in a launch or I'm whatever, I've got so many follow, I need to do it now cause I've got their attention.
[00:08:32] And there is this lack of belief that if you. Leave or pause. If you leave or pause, it will all go away. So there's this like urgency right now to make the money, to do the work, to get the result, and if you were to take a weekend off, it would all fall apart or they wouldn't be paying attention. Those potential clients wouldn't be paying attention to you.
[00:08:58] Mm. [00:09:00] and I also I, and that just reminds me too, another thing that we've really worked on, you and I around thinking about is that our clients do not need us all the time.
[00:09:15] That's a lesson that is a, I do feel like that with our coaching clients. So in this company, in the An she company, I do agree with that statement. Yes. Which most of our clients are. Yes. Not running software clients. They're running coaching and, and service based businesses. Yes. And so it's just like even that, if you can even change that, um, that you can.
[00:09:38] Friday afternoon, off till Monday morning. Not check your communities, not check your slack, not check your email, and the world will not end. And in fact, sometimes the clients that do write you on the weekend, Solve their own problem by Monday morning. Mm-hmm. , which is always like eye-opening to us when that happens.
[00:09:56] Like they're, they initially ask a question cuz they're stuck and then two [00:10:00] days later they've solved it and you're like, okay, great. Right. So sometimes there's mm-hmm. , it's, it's in their favor just to like, let them alone and leave them alone and, and, and, um, they can figure it out. Um, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna say, so in terms of this part of burnout, the, like client-centered burnout mm-hmm.
[00:10:19] I think that the answer to that is very clear boundaries and just setting expectations that everyone knows upfront and ahead of time. Like these are the times when. You when I am responsive to you as your coach or as your teacher. Yeah. And like that usually solves that problem. And for everybody involved, it's just about actually setting those expectations and, and creating clear boundaries and not feeling, and you can do that.
[00:10:43] But often that thought like, I have to help. I have to be available. Because that's what women have been socialized to believe that their role is to nurture and take care of others. And so you really have to work on your thinking behind that, set the boundary, and be really firm with yourself that you don't have to take [00:11:00] care of those of your clients, your community, whatever it is on the weekend.
[00:11:04] Or holidays or whatever. Oh yeah. And I think like model that for them, right? Mm-hmm. , because especially if you're serving other women or people who've been marginalized in any way, like mm-hmm. , it would behoove you and everyone else for you to model that behavior of showing boundaries. Yeah. Because by being too nurturing, you actually are just being self-destructive.
[00:11:24] Yeah. just perpetuating it. Yeah. . Oh goodness. Okay. Sandy, I just have to say something. I know we're supposed to wait for the hustle, but I kind of have to say something. , I wanna bring up the hustle now, so I, for the hustle. You're getting it. Early today I found, um, some work by a doctor named. I'm gonna, I don't wanna butcher her name.
[00:11:50] Saundra Dalton Smith. She's an MD doctor and she has a post and a talk, a TED talk, basically on their blog. It's like a post on their blog [00:12:00] about the different kinds of rest. Um, and just like w. To me that's so related to burnout, because I think like when we think about burnout, it's just this like all universal feeling of like, I am tapped out, my white blood cell kind of count as low, like whatever that means, I'm just done.
[00:12:17] Right? I'm fried, and I think that. Part of the reason that that happens and that we get to that point as overachievers and as entrepreneurs is because we're not really self-aware about what we need. As we kind of go out, go out in the world and go through our week and go through our month or our year, and her post talks about the seven different kinds of rest and including like physical rest, which is I think what a lot of us think about mental rest or the combination of those is the second one.
[00:12:48] And then the third type of rest is sensory rest, and then creative rest, emotional rest, spiritual rest. Right? It goes on and on. And I guess for me, when I. Saw this, like it [00:13:00] resonated so much with me because I have never once felt burnt out. When I'm in a creative space, like on my own working, like if I'm writing or I'm creating a course or I'm like creating a f a new framework for something.
[00:13:15] I don't believe in eight plus years, I have ever at one moment felt this like burnout feeling. And so for me, like that's why I think I push back against burnout so much is I'm like, I love working, but what I do feel burnout from is human interaction. and people feeling, um, like they have a right to my attention and my time.
[00:13:39] Mm-hmm. , or sometimes like just being in, like looking into screen too much like a sensory overload. And so I think what, what is helpful for everyone to think about is like, honestly, like if you have burnout feelings or if you think about your business and all of a sudden like burnout. Is the word that you feel like just really I challenge you to think about what it [00:14:00] is.
[00:14:00] Mm-hmm. specifically that's causing that feeling. Right. Right. No, I think that's a really good point. And this list in this hustle is super helpful to think about other ways of resting. Mm-hmm. other than just going to take a nap or binging on a TV show or something. Right. Yeah. Um, and just to. Really, maybe it will just twig like, oh, this is, I'm really missing my spiritual rest or whatever.
[00:14:28] Like you just maybe don't come up with that on your own. But reading this list, it may twig, but to your point, Jenny, about like when you write or when you're creative, and I know we were kind of going back on how to describe this, but I think. when you say you weren't burnt out, when you write. Mm-hmm.
[00:14:43] because what you are doing is hard focused work, and I think you didn't like the word hard, so we're gonna call it focused work . But like give yourself that permission that start to work into that belief that I can do [00:15:00] hard work and I'm gonna be okay, or I can work for long focus period. and it's, it's going to be okay.
[00:15:08] I think when you do that, you are. Uh, grounded. You are connected, you are focused on abundance cuz the work that you do in that time, you know, on some level is going to, and we're talking about, I'm talking about business here. If you are working on a webinar or an email sequence or a Facebook ad or that just described my last two hours, yeah, that's what you do.
[00:15:31] So I, that's not what I do on my focused work hours, but yes, totally. But I know that like I can work hard and focused and I know that what I create is going to come back to us multiple times, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , I'm connected to abundance. Mm-hmm. that I can, or, or maybe a better example is like, We'll create a live challenge or a webinar and yeah, it's a lot of work before, but we know [00:16:00] that, yeah, we'll get tired.
[00:16:01] It's going to be a lot, but it's okay cuz it will come to an end and what we just created, we can reuse over and over and over again, right? Mm-hmm. , so it's like, It's kind of like, um, temporary. Like you go in and you come back out where hustle work just feels like it's going on all the time, and your mind is just stuck in overwhelm, you know, a hundred percent.
[00:16:23] That's what's mentally exhausting for me. Yeah. Chaotic. Yeah. You know what I also think is in our luminaries, we'll know about this, who attended my workshop on time blocking calendar work last year, which I know, um, I don't remember if you actually came to that, Sandy, but No, I did. I think you did. Yeah. So.
[00:16:41] I think that like part of this is understanding yourself. The best strategy that I have for ABO avoiding burnout is actually understanding how I work Yes. And how I thrive. And then, so Mondays and Fridays for us, for me, I call them creator days and I time block them on my calendar. Like I [00:17:00] try to only do creative work.
[00:17:03] Like sometimes with you. Mm-hmm. , but never like really with anyone else on those two days of the week. I don't want to have meetings. I don't want anyone touching my calendar. I don't want to have to like be in Slack messaging team members all day and answering questions like those are my days where I give myself the gift of, of like focus time or hard work time as you call it.
[00:17:26] That makes it so that I put bounds around the more chaotic stuff. That's harder for me, like it only happens three days a week, and when I stray from this, when I do take meetings, Especially team meetings on Mondays and Fridays. Like I feel it intensely in my body and it, it absolutely affects my happiness, my productivity, like the way I interact with my family.
[00:17:51] Like I know what works for me, right? So part of the way that I avoid burnout is by actually structuring my week the way that I need it to be [00:18:00] structured to avoid burnout. Mm-hmm. . And we also. Have to trust. That we will do the work that we've put on our calendar, whether we've phy physically time, blocked it or not, or we've just said like, Monday I'm gonna do this.
[00:18:17] We have to trust ourselves to get the work done. And once we can start to prove that to ourself over and over again, we can, um, like an example is when we were. I just came back from visiting you in, in Arizona and one of our team members, Joe, said, can you please proof this sequence? Uh, I need it done, whatever.
[00:18:39] And so I put that on my calendar for Thursday when I got back so that I didn't have to think about it anymore, because if I didn't put it somewhere, it would just be like, oh, I gotta do that thing for Joe. I gotta do that thing for Joe. I can't forget to do that. That is what causes some of the exhaustion.
[00:18:51] So to be able to put that on the calendar and trust myself that I am practiced enough. To like, see that, dive in, get it done, [00:19:00] and then it's over. There's no drama about it, right? Mm-hmm. . So we have to trust ourselves to get the work done in the moments, in the hours that we define, that we will be working.
[00:19:09] And I think one of the big things for me between 2022 and 23 is that, um, I've, I'm sorry, I'm gonna say this to you again. I've said this so many times. When I'm working, I'm working. And when I'm not, I'm not mm-hmm. and I think. when you are just kind of always half working, that's what leads to exhaustion when you don't define your hours mm-hmm.
[00:19:32] so that when you're off, you're like, I should be working. Mm-hmm. , I actually had this happen to me, uh, before I left. I was at an appointment on a Saturday morning and I was just sitting there. I had no phone. I was just silent. I was sitting there and I recognized that my, recognized that my thought was like, I should be working.
[00:19:51] I should be working. I should be like, that was the thought. That's like underneath like the current, and that is exhausting, right? That [00:20:00] causes burnout. Mm-hmm. . So I just had to talk myself, basically self-coach myself sitting in that chair that, wait, it's okay. Like it's Saturday, everything's fine. You can start again Monday.
[00:20:11] You can take this Saturday and Sunday. . Right. So Totally. Of course you can, but I, but it's the, it's, it's playing like it's back there. Like, you, you should be working. If things aren't done, you haven't finished this. Somebody's waiting for that. So it is truly a practice to figure out how you're gonna show up to this, to your, to your business.
[00:20:36] Right. But I think when we're sort of always half on. Thinking about things in the evenings and weekends and when we're sitting at our desk and sitting in confusion or overwhelm or worry or not really sure what we're doing. So we're messing about and we're checking social and we're looking at what other people are doing.
[00:20:54] Comparing and despairing, like what that is. Half-assing it at your desk. That is also exhausting cuz [00:21:00] you didn't get anything done. It feels terrible. You feel ungrounded, you feel in. Again, I think that leads, leads to burnout. So, um, that's my rant. , I think that makes sense. I think a lot of people will relate to that, Sandy.
[00:21:15] So thank you for sharing that with everybody. Yeah. I think you just have to define for you as you're listening to this, what gives you energy. Sorry. Please edit that out guys. Um, you have to define for yourself what gives you energy and what takes energy away. Just like that whole intro version, extraversion thing, like that's how we define it.
[00:21:39] An introver or an extrovert at this point. And for me, like my creator days, my Mondays and Fridays, Really do blend into my weekend because like I am so happy . Like that's act like I, if I could pause on a Saturday and go do some of my creator kind of work, I would like, [00:22:00] it's actually my joy in life. And so I think that for me, I have decided that there's a part of my work life that is the most important thing to me.
[00:22:11] like besides my ki you know, like there's obviously I wanna be with my family and obvious. be in nature. There's things like that, but like beyond that, like the most, the thing I enjoy spending my time in the most is being in that creative space. And I think that as like a serial entrepreneur and founder, like I'm not always thinking about one of our business.
[00:22:31] Like I have like 5,000 business ideas and it's like I just get in my creative space and I'm just loving every second of it. And I think that that's also, I just wanna make sure that folks aren't shaming themselves if that is what they wanna do in their free time, because there's nothing wrong with it.
[00:22:46] That's how we all got started, right? Is daydreaming and planning and vision board and all of that kind of stuff before we ever began. So that's fine. Like you have to do what's right for you. , but you certainly have to put very clear [00:23:00] time boundaries and like mental boundaries around the work that drains you.
[00:23:06] And I think that's the most important thing that I would take away from what you said, Sandy, is like the feeling of I have to be doing this, or someone is waiting for this, or I feel this pressure. Mm-hmm. , like if you feel that way, absolutely. That needs to be done. All anything related to that needs to happen in that those bounded hours that you define for yourself.
[00:23:23] Yeah. Um. I also, something you said made me think of this. I also to, to those women who are holding back because they are hesitant to work hard or to really throw themselves in and do some focus work, I wanna say. . I heard someone say, one of my coaches recently said this, and it's so good. It actually takes the same amount of energy to tell yourself that you don't wanna do the work or you're too afraid of getting sick or you're, it's just too hard as it [00:24:00] is to just do the damn work and get done.
[00:24:02] Mm-hmm. , right? Like sometimes. And I don't, I totally, I totally see that actually. Like it's the same amount of work to procrastinate as it is to do the work. Yeah. Just like all the energy, all the mental energy, all the, the talking to. Whereas you could just be like, I'm just gonna go and, and, and write this thing or mm-hmm.
[00:24:21] block, you know, uh, make it a outline for my podcast or whatever it is. I'm just gonna sit down and record something as it is to be like, oh, I am too tired and I just is so much work to sit there and I don't really know what I'm doing. And. I'm confused about what really I should be focused. All of that takes the equal amount of energy and emotional labor as it does to just sit down, and truly give your, put a timer on, give yourself 20 minutes and outline that podcast.
[00:24:49] Like, and it's such a, it's such a sort of shake up like, oh wait, because remember that focused work will pay off later. , and that's what [00:25:00] you have to remember. Like there is a reason that you do it. It's not a job job putting out in Yeah, and, and I'm just gonna make a plug because if you're sitting and spinning in confusion, not knowing what to do, , then you need a coach.
[00:25:14] Like nobody should be doing that. There's no excuse for that. . Good job too. Good job. . Like whether it's us or some other coaches, like it doesn't honestly just pick something, pick someone and follow their pro, their protocol. There's no one path to entrepreneurship or successful business, right? Like there's different paths.
[00:25:33] The mistake is to pick and choose and follow bits and pieces from lots of. Coaching styles or ideas or to just sit there like you're describing Sandy, and like act like you don't know what to do. No. Like, and if you can't, if you're not in the place or a position to pay someone to tell you what to do or to join a coaching program, then like figure out someone you like and listen to their podcast or watch their YouTube channel and just do exactly what they.
[00:25:58] Yeah. And like, I [00:26:00] don't think, having no idea what to do is an excuse anymore. There's enough content out there. You just need to pick something and focus and stick with her. Try it, learn from it. Yeah. Uh, and then try something else and learn from that. Yeah. Another old co uh, Brooke Castillo, my original, original coach, she also said something like, I can't remember exactly how it goes, but, um, When she works really hard that day and is super productive and she's tired, she says something like, I used myself up.
[00:26:28] Like she, what was it? She like lays her head down on the pillow and says to herself, like, I used myself up from a place of pride. Like, I feel so proud of the work that I did. , right? Mm-hmm. as opposed to some of the patterns that we see are like, I'm too afraid to apply myself to the work cuz I might get sick and you go to bed at night and you're like, damn, I've got nothing.
[00:26:51] I got no new clients. I got new, no revenue. I've got, you know, like there's this mm-hmm. , other negative, which is, Stagnation in your business [00:27:00] as opposed to like really applying yourself, trying something, not knowing what the results are gonna be, and that's okay, but going to bed at night going, I used myself up or something like that.
[00:27:09] I did it . Yeah. You know what? I used my energy for good. . Yeah. And if you're doing work that's aligned with you, I feel like the majority of the work you do, cuz there's always gonna be stuff you don't like in any job or any mm-hmm. like entrepreneurial journey. But if you have, if you figure out how to optimize for what you you're good at and what you're gifted at, like, you should actually feel energized by working hard.
[00:27:33] Like you should. It shouldn't be this total defeated, falling onto the pillow at night, you know, just crushed by the exhaustion. You should have some things that exhaust you and stress you out. Sure. But like, you're also gonna have this feeling of accomplishment that you get by doing something that you're really good at.
[00:27:51] Right. So that's, that's like also part of it and big difference. Yeah. I think like the abundant scarcity or like the hustley versus focused work [00:28:00] feels very different in your body. Mm-hmm. , you can be physically tired, but you won't be. What is it like? Totally burnt out. Exhaust. Depleted. Depleted, yeah. Thank you.
[00:28:11] That's the word. That's the word. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And I guess like that feeling, that depleted feeling in the online business space for me is having like 14 browser window opens with like 33 tabs each. Mm-hmm. and like, like just like manically clicking between tabs because you don't, you don't know what to do and you're like, I, I'll take a little bit of this, or I need to go read this thing, or I don't know what to do.
[00:28:32] Like that feeling. . I'm sure I'm not alone. That's the bad feeling. That's the thing to not do. . Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. Like focused work is the opposite of that. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Amazing. I think. All right, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna create a little lesson for our luminaries program. I'm gonna, I think this is super important to understand hard work, focus work over hustley work.
[00:28:56] So it's common. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Join [00:29:00] Hustle. Do you wanna just, yeah. Mention that, that hustle. Yeah, the Hustle, it's a link to an article on the TED Talk site, and again, it's by Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, and it's from January 6th, 2021. And it's fantastic. And she does also have a TED Talk that goes along with it.
[00:29:21] So, um, I, it's a TEDx talk from Atlanta and I will link to that for sure in the show notes. Okay. Departure for the joy. Jenny always has the joys. And today I got the Joy . So what, just before I left, it's like a thing, it's a product I bought before I left. I ordered these. Um, I'll show them to you in the camera.
[00:29:43] The hair pins. Oh, they're by, I'll probably butcher this. Um, Fiona Fra imo. And it's probably. American and they probably say Frenchman. Um, it's these little sandy, it's these little hair pins that are. little [00:30:00] plastic, like see that? Oh, and they're so good. And you can put it, God, hope this doesn't make it to a reel.
[00:30:05] And this like, and it's just so strong and you can do all these super cool updos and with just these thing, and it holds it so strong. So for any of you have longer hair, who wanna do like messy buns? Like it's, it's better than a, a bobby pin. Like it's more comfortable. I love. They're so good. And there's all different colors.
[00:30:27] See, so did you get hit with a, like an it ad? Like where'd you hear about them? Yes, yes, yes, I did. Yes, I did and then I, and then I went down the rabbit hole of like looking at all the hairstyles you could do. Um, and then realizing I spend 90% of my time on Zoom, and even if I did something really cool, nobody's like, literally nobody's going to see it.
[00:30:49] You're just doing it for yourself. Doing it for myself. Nothing wrong with that. So that's why we wear shoes on Zoom, . That's right. Cuz otherwise I'd never wear my cool shoes. [00:31:00] All right. So that's Joy. My sneakers just came, by the way, Sandy. Oh, did they? Speaking of online orders. Yes. My basketball sneakers.
[00:31:08] Nike. Yes. Bees. Yeah. Those will be a future joy. Okay. All right there. Okay. Amazing. Good talk. Thank you, Jeni. All right everyone. We'll see you next time.