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Each new episode will cover current issues concerning the environmental, natural resources, and land use topics from the business perspective — what businesses and property owners need to know about complying with environmental regulations and protecting themselves from potential exposure, and legal strategies when litigation is involved. Thierry will use his 35 years of environmental litigation and compliance experience to disentangle and demystify the complicated world of environmental law, to help the listener understand the countless acronyms and agencies they might come across.
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Thierry Montoya
Welcome to
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Thierry Montoya
essential Environmental. I'm Terry Montoya.
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Thierry Montoya
I advise regulated businesses, developers
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Thierry Montoya
and landowners on environmental and water issues,
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Thierry Montoya
often where permitting,
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Thierry Montoya
enforcement risk and project schedules collide.
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Thierry Montoya
Today
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Thierry Montoya
we have an episode
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Thierry Montoya
dressing a simple question with real business consequences. How do professionals
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Thierry Montoya
in regulated fields explain
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Thierry Montoya
what they do in a way that builds trust,
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Thierry Montoya
reduces hesitation,
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Thierry Montoya
and leads to better client conversations?
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Thierry Montoya
Our guest is Seth
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Thierry Montoya
ever gone? Seth is a marketing
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Thierry Montoya
strategist,
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Thierry Montoya
is not an environmental professional, and that is the strength
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Thierry Montoya
here.
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Thierry Montoya
He works with technical
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Thierry Montoya
and regulated professionals and focuses on clarity,
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Thierry Montoya
credibility,
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Thierry Montoya
and follow through without hype.
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Thierry Montoya
Seth,
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Thierry Montoya
thanks for joining us today.
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Seth Avergon
My pleasure.
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Thierry Montoya
Let's start with your background. Who you help
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Thierry Montoya
and what people get wrong about marketing. So
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Thierry Montoya
will you. Help is a good starting point. What problems do you solve
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Thierry Montoya
and what do professionals and regulated fields
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Thierry Montoya
misunderstand about marketing?
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Seth Avergon
So who I help? I work with technical firms and I help technical environmental consultants. Other types of consultants,
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Seth Avergon
communicate in a way that their audience, who's often non-technical, can understand and appreciate what they're talking about. My own background. I came from a big brand background. I spent the first half of my career with big corporations and then started my own company back in nine, and really that became the focus very
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Seth Avergon
quickly is helping
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Seth Avergon
strip down complicated issues into things
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Seth Avergon
People could easily understand. And I would say, if there's one thing I see clients get off and wrong
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Seth Avergon
is an understanding that
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Seth Avergon
in the storytelling that is marketing
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Seth Avergon
you,
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Seth Avergon
the customer, you the company are not the hero of the story.
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Seth Avergon
You are their guide. You are their their person. I'll give the analogy from Star Wars. You are not
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Seth Avergon
Luke Skywalker in this one.
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Seth Avergon
You are Obi-Wan Kenobi. You are guiding them towards a solution,
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Seth Avergon
but you are not the hero of the story.
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Seth Avergon
And oftentimes when I see companies try to present themselves there, presenting who they are and what they're about
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Seth Avergon
versus
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Seth Avergon
how they're going to help that client move
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Seth Avergon
forward.
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Thierry Montoya
So it's it's very difficult to keep the eye out of it. But if you, if you had to summarize your approach
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Thierry Montoya
in one line, let's say for a risk averse client, what would you say?
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Seth Avergon
If a client is risk averse?
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Seth Avergon
My job as a marketing side is to help
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Seth Avergon
slowly take them down the path of showing them
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Seth Avergon
what is the what are the potential pitfalls of what they're looking at. What is the process we're going to go through and how we're going to handle some of those potential objections, some of those risks that they're concerned with.
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Seth Avergon
The last thing you want to do is try to say, hey, everything's going to be fine. We guarantee it. We got this.
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Seth Avergon
You want to start kind of like, you know,
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Seth Avergon
whenever you're hiking with someone, you always try to go at the pace of that slowest person. You want to go where they are first,
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Seth Avergon
right? And you want to talk about, okay, tell me a little bit about what what what are your deepest concerns here?
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Seth Avergon
Okay. Let's walk through
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Seth Avergon
what you understand to be true. And let me talk a little bit about how we've handled that in the past and how we've worked with people in a similar situation to yourself.
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Thierry Montoya
So showing, you know, showing your skill and making making them comfortable.
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Thierry Montoya
This is frightening to a lot of people.
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Seth Avergon
See, I think a lot of people think of marketing as this loud bang, get out there and say things. And
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Seth Avergon
when your marketing for a technical professional,
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Seth Avergon
my job is to help you create or be involved in discussions and conversations that are meaningful
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Seth Avergon
for that client. It's not loud. It's
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Seth Avergon
really showing what you're good at in a way that they can understand, in a way that you can demonstrate your process and your expertise and your discipline around a specific area, versus
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Seth Avergon
kind of
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Seth Avergon
slogans and big logos.
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Seth Avergon
It's not what it's about. It's about, as you said, they're risk averse. They're coming in with genuine fear and a huge uncertainty gap often. And so that's
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Seth Avergon
where you start.
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Thierry Montoya
So
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Thierry Montoya
that's a good launching point here.
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Thierry Montoya
What does it mean to stand out
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Thierry Montoya
in regulated industries. So
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Thierry Montoya
when people hear marketing like you
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Thierry Montoya
like you stated, they often, you know, picture loud branding, right? But that doesn't fit in regulated work.
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Thierry Montoya
In your view,
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Thierry Montoya
what does standing out look like in regulated
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Thierry Montoya
industries?
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Seth Avergon
Standing out in a regulated industry looks like
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Seth Avergon
demonstrating expertise by examples, by case studies, by
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Seth Avergon
thought leadership around an area, by really thoughtful conversations with your clients where you're both listening and then echoing back at them and then communicating based on your experience. This is this is how we've handled this in the past, right? It's much more of an intimate engagement
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Seth Avergon
to
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Seth Avergon
help them see.
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Seth Avergon
Okay. Well, this is this is the person I can trust. Because let's be honest, when they hire you, they're not going to be exactly sure you're going to be able to get the job done. They don't know this area. So they have to develop a sense of trust in you. And that trust comes from conversations. It comes from the way you communicate, how you discuss your process, how you talk about how you have handled similar
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Seth Avergon
situations in the past
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Seth Avergon
and how you listen to them, too, which is a big part of it.
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Seth Avergon
Instead of kind of coming in and go, let me tell you who I am.
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Seth Avergon
It's going to start with, tell me a bit about what's going on.
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Seth Avergon
Then let me again, let me echo back at
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Seth Avergon
you what I've heard. Let me tell you a little bit about how we have handled on the in the past. Here's our process here, the potential pitfalls you might be looking at.
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Seth Avergon
And I want to make you aware of them
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Seth Avergon
because there are no guarantees. Right. We talked about that. And then this is how we handle those type of
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Seth Avergon
when they come up.
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Thierry Montoya
So when I'm talking to a general counsel,
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Thierry Montoya
a developer,
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Thierry Montoya
what
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Thierry Montoya
makes them feel safe about choosing
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Thierry Montoya
me as one advisor over another
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Thierry Montoya
is,
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Thierry Montoya
first of all,
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Thierry Montoya
just just listening, right? Listening to
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Thierry Montoya
what their pain points are, I presume. Right.
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Thierry Montoya
And then waiting for that and say,
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Thierry Montoya
here's how I can help. I heard what you said.
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Seth Avergon
Yeah, right.
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Seth Avergon
If you are listening, actively
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Seth Avergon
echoing back what you heard to make sure you got it right and then mapping your response
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Seth Avergon
against their needs,
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Seth Avergon
you are leaps ahead of most folks out there who just kind of come in there and say, these are our credentials. We got this many engineers, we've done this many stuff. That's
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Seth Avergon
that's not going to help
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Seth Avergon
with their fear and uncertainty.
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Seth Avergon
And that's what you're coming in on, right? You're coming in
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Seth Avergon
on someone who's got a deep concern on something, especially with environmental issues that could be
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Seth Avergon
serious and could have serious ramifications if it's not handled properly.
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Thierry Montoya
There's always this concept of, you know, you've got two competing firms,
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Thierry Montoya
and,
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Thierry Montoya
and while they why they feel very different,
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Thierry Montoya
you know, in the hiring process. So
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Thierry Montoya
let's assume there's two firms and they're both competent
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Thierry Montoya
one lists
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Thierry Montoya
services and credentials.
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Thierry Montoya
The other shows how it thinks, explains trade offs
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Thierry Montoya
and shows how it prevents surprises. Let's say,
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Thierry Montoya
why
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Thierry Montoya
do those two firms feel so
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Thierry Montoya
different to hire?
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Seth Avergon
A wonderful question.
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Seth Avergon
The reason why they feel so different to hire.
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Seth Avergon
Because firm B, the talked about process and how they handle things,
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Seth Avergon
allows the buyer to insert themselves into that situation.
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Seth Avergon
So you can't insert yourself as the buyer into credentials and background, but you can. Oh my God, what what Terry just talked about, that's really similar to what we're looking at right now.
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Seth Avergon
And that's the kind of fears that concerns I have. I, as a buyer, can insert into it. It's why we love a good book or a good movie. We insert ourselves into the main character of the story and realize, even though this is a technical sale,
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Seth Avergon
we're still in the we're still in the game of storytelling,
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Seth Avergon
telling a story about how we're going to help them, how we're going to aid them, and then they go, okay, even if it's even as
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Seth Avergon
legal counsel.
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Seth Avergon
That's very similar to what we're looking at. And you seem to know a lot about the thing that we're dealing with. I want to work with you. And by the way, you
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Seth Avergon
listen to me and you seem to be easy to work with
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Seth Avergon
for a that you discuss just said, okay,
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Seth Avergon
this is who we are. We got these credentials, we've done these kind of jobs.
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Seth Avergon
We've got X number of of engineers and personnel.
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Seth Avergon
We've offices in 17 cities.
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Seth Avergon
Okay.
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Seth Avergon
That doesn't enable me to to feel comfortable. And that's that's what we're talking about. Right. Is establishing that level of
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Seth Avergon
comfort that you are going to take care of me. You are going to help me
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Seth Avergon
find a
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Seth Avergon
solution to a problem.
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Thierry Montoya
And there's a place for both types of firms there. There are places that, you know,
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Thierry Montoya
want
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Thierry Montoya
the all the credentials, all the offices,
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Thierry Montoya
you know, that that fills that fills in need.
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Thierry Montoya
And then there there are people that you know,
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Thierry Montoya
want to be hired because of. Let me tell you how
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Thierry Montoya
I look at things.
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Seth Avergon
And I suspect once someone, once there is that,
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Seth Avergon
once there is that understanding because we tend to we like to think as humans, we
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Seth Avergon
make logical decisions. We don't. We make emotional decisions and we support them with cherry pick logic. So once you've once you've discovered that that rapport and that this person is going to help you, you look at their credentials, you'll look at their background, but you've already made an emotional decision that this is the person
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Seth Avergon
you want to work with.
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Thierry Montoya
Yeah, probably. So,
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Thierry Montoya
give us an example of how a professional can show judgment without
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Thierry Montoya
giving away
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Thierry Montoya
confidential
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Thierry Montoya
details.
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Seth Avergon
Yeah, I've dealt.
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Thierry Montoya
With it. That's something that you have to be careful of when when you're when you're marketing a firm.
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Seth Avergon
Yeah. And I've dealt with that before. And everyone concerned about confidentiality. There are ways of telling stories. Again, I'm back to storytelling of typical scenarios,
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Seth Avergon
typical situations, without giving away the, you know, protecting the innocent, right? Giving away the names or dates or what was done here. Or you can if someone is talking about a specific type of project, you can say we've handled similar situations.
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Seth Avergon
This is how we've handled that. You can even develop again case
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Seth Avergon
studies based on typical scenarios. Names and dates are changed, locations are changed. But that's people don't want that anyways. They really want to see what was your process? How do you know what what what what was the I think you talked about was what's the context of the situation and what's the what's the potential solution and what is the outcome going to be for that.
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Seth Avergon
And that's what they're looking for right. If they really need a reference from you, then you'll go and get a reference for them. And they'll go and go and talk to that person. But they're looking to see most of the clients I'm dealing with. Most of the buyers that I'm talking to are looking to see how you're going
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Seth Avergon
to handle it.
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Thierry Montoya
So if we're talking about,
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Thierry Montoya
you know,
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Thierry Montoya
examples of
00:10:25:10 - 00:10:28:04
Thierry Montoya
proof that builds confidence,
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Thierry Montoya
one which
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Thierry Montoya
I, I like to employ as soon as I can when I'm listening to someone and I find a need and I can say
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Thierry Montoya
I have dealt with this and let me, let me tell you the situation. Let me tell you my strategy, my approach
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Thierry Montoya
and and a result are there.
00:10:45:15 - 00:10:46:00
Thierry Montoya
00:10:46:02 - 00:10:47:22
Thierry Montoya
Are there any other,
00:10:48:02 - 00:10:55:11
Thierry Montoya
good examples of, of proof that one can use, like in a live conversation?
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Seth Avergon
So in the live conversation, you're going to be going back into your history. You
00:11:00:02 - 00:11:02:01
Seth Avergon
might if you have enough information on their
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Seth Avergon
scenario, you might take them through how you would handle their specific scenario. That's in a live context. You can also still bring in,
00:11:08:13 - 00:11:10:12
Seth Avergon
again, the hypothetical case studies,
00:11:10:16 - 00:11:14:19
Seth Avergon
thought leadership pieces. You've done written materials on things of that nature.
00:11:14:23 - 00:11:19:02
Seth Avergon
Those are the ones that come to mind for me right now in live conversation. It really is.
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Seth Avergon
They're buying you, right? They're buying you your ability, your process, but they're buying you at that point. So it they're they're wanting
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Seth Avergon
to see how you think.
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Thierry Montoya
And how
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Thierry Montoya
how you look while you're. Yeah. You're talking to them. Yeah. And dealing with their questions.
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Thierry Montoya
So
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Thierry Montoya
overpromising is
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Thierry Montoya
is always a pitfall
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Thierry Montoya
that
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Thierry Montoya
and and it's
00:11:38:18 - 00:11:42:08
Thierry Montoya
a lot of regulated work includes uncertainty.
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Thierry Montoya
And agencies ask follow up questions. Timelines slip
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Thierry Montoya
scope changes. So
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Thierry Montoya
how do you market
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Thierry Montoya
reality without
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Thierry Montoya
overpromising?
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Seth Avergon
I think you start with exactly what you just said in a moment ago, which is that realize that these are the kind of things that can happen, and there are no guarantees. I cannot
00:12:01:18 - 00:12:04:15
Seth Avergon
you cannot control certain things. That is reality, right?
00:12:04:20 - 00:12:06:07
Seth Avergon
Here are the things we can control.
00:12:06:12 - 00:12:09:03
Seth Avergon
We can control, process we can control to a
00:12:09:03 - 00:12:09:16
Seth Avergon
degree
00:12:09:19 - 00:12:12:01
Seth Avergon
how we will respond if this were to happen.
00:12:12:04 - 00:12:22:18
Seth Avergon
But you very upfront with people never give a guarantee. Never. You know, no one wants to feel like a used car salesman anyways. So never speak to guarantees or that speak openly and honestly about
00:12:22:21 - 00:12:30:18
Seth Avergon
what you just said and understanding of slipping. Timeline of slipping, timelines of requests from state or from different entities
00:12:30:21 - 00:12:33:17
Seth Avergon
for additional information and just openly talk to them.
00:12:33:17 - 00:12:34:20
Seth Avergon
I find
00:12:34:22 - 00:12:35:13
Seth Avergon
that
00:12:35:16 - 00:12:36:21
Seth Avergon
most clients
00:12:37:01 - 00:12:37:21
Seth Avergon
customers,
00:12:38:01 - 00:12:39:22
Seth Avergon
if they understand on the front end
00:12:40:01 - 00:12:48:07
Seth Avergon
what's could potentially be involved, they're far better suited for it. Then if they get a surprise down the line, that's that's never a good, never
00:12:48:09 - 00:12:48:21
Seth Avergon
good move.
00:12:49:01 - 00:12:49:15
Thierry Montoya
You know,
00:12:49:19 - 00:12:50:19
Thierry Montoya
I think
00:12:50:21 - 00:12:51:14
Thierry Montoya
my case,
00:12:51:18 - 00:12:53:07
Thierry Montoya
if you if you know
00:12:53:11 - 00:12:54:22
Thierry Montoya
the opponents, if you know the
00:12:55:01 - 00:12:56:12
Thierry Montoya
agencies that you're dealing with,
00:12:56:17 - 00:12:58:00
Thierry Montoya
you know how they work,
00:12:58:05 - 00:12:59:14
Thierry Montoya
you know how they respond.
00:12:59:17 - 00:13:02:06
Thierry Montoya
You know, what makes them
00:13:02:11 - 00:13:10:14
Thierry Montoya
move on to the next issue, getting you closer to the goal. If you honestly lay all that out and say it's going to be painful for a while,
00:13:10:16 - 00:13:11:05
Thierry Montoya
then
00:13:11:09 - 00:13:11:23
Thierry Montoya
that shows.
00:13:11:23 - 00:13:13:16
Thierry Montoya
I think your your in-depth
00:13:13:18 - 00:13:14:11
Thierry Montoya
knowledge
00:13:14:14 - 00:13:15:01
Thierry Montoya
of
00:13:15:05 - 00:13:18:16
Thierry Montoya
the client's problem and how you can help them.
00:13:18:21 - 00:13:20:08
Thierry Montoya
And it builds
00:13:20:11 - 00:13:20:21
Thierry Montoya
confidence.
00:13:20:23 - 00:13:29:14
Seth Avergon
You know, in many ways, it's kind of like taking a little kid to get a shot, right? Do you want to when they say, is this not going to hurt? You could lie to them and say, no, it's not going to hurt. Or
00:13:29:14 - 00:13:33:12
Seth Avergon
you can say it's going to hurt probably a little bit, but you know what? You're going to get through it fast.
00:13:33:12 - 00:13:35:20
Seth Avergon
And then we're going to go out and do something fun. And
00:13:36:00 - 00:13:41:03
Seth Avergon
most kids are okay with that, right? They're like, okay, it's going to hurt a little bit, but I'm going to get through it. I'm going to be fine.
00:13:41:05 - 00:13:42:05
Seth Avergon
It's not dissimilar.
00:13:42:09 - 00:13:43:01
Thierry Montoya
No, it's not
00:13:43:06 - 00:13:49:03
Thierry Montoya
Oh, you brought up. Yeah. Memories of when I had to take my kids to to get shots. Yeah, yeah.
00:13:49:06 - 00:13:49:17
Thierry Montoya
So
00:13:49:20 - 00:13:53:17
Thierry Montoya
let's talk about, education as marketing,
00:13:53:22 - 00:13:57:07
Thierry Montoya
why educational content works and regulated
00:13:57:11 - 00:13:58:08
Thierry Montoya
industries. So.
00:13:58:12 - 00:14:01:03
Thierry Montoya
My listeners come here for, for clarity. I
00:14:01:04 - 00:14:03:11
Thierry Montoya
think when when people call me
00:14:03:17 - 00:14:08:14
Thierry Montoya
and they say, have you, you know, do you have experience in this? Can you help me in this
00:14:08:17 - 00:14:09:09
Thierry Montoya
problem?
00:14:09:12 - 00:14:11:00
Thierry Montoya
They're looking for clarity
00:14:11:05 - 00:14:12:16
Thierry Montoya
and honesty, I think.
00:14:12:20 - 00:14:18:16
Thierry Montoya
But that's also a marketing strategy when done correctly. So
00:14:18:20 - 00:14:22:08
Thierry Montoya
why does educational content work especially
00:14:22:10 - 00:14:24:04
Thierry Montoya
well in regulated industries?
00:14:24:07 - 00:14:25:07
Seth Avergon
Yeah, especially.
00:14:25:07 - 00:14:26:19
Seth Avergon
In regulated industries.
00:14:26:20 - 00:14:32:17
Seth Avergon
And I touched on this earlier. Your client has a knowledge gap.
00:14:32:20 - 00:14:33:21
Seth Avergon
And that knowledge
00:14:33:22 - 00:14:38:05
Seth Avergon
gap leads to fear and uncertainty and hesitance often.
00:14:38:07 - 00:14:45:00
Seth Avergon
And so what you're attempting to do with your education is close that gap down as much as possible. So when they come in,
00:14:45:03 - 00:14:48:12
Seth Avergon
they have a better understanding of the process of what's going to be involved.
00:14:48:13 - 00:14:52:01
Seth Avergon
They're asking better questions. You're you're going to have
00:14:52:03 - 00:15:01:19
Seth Avergon
to be that much closer to a close, frankly, on the sales side, but they are coming in with more information and more comfort
00:15:01:22 - 00:15:02:16
Seth Avergon
around.
00:15:02:18 - 00:15:16:08
Seth Avergon
Oh, okay. I like the way they address this. They read your blog. They they watched your podcast. I like how Terri handled that. I really want to see if he's the right guy for this job for us, because his education, he helped me learn things I didn't know about, a project that I'm going to
00:15:16:09 - 00:15:17:00
Seth Avergon
have to deal with.
00:15:17:04 - 00:15:18:08
Thierry Montoya
So obviously
00:15:18:12 - 00:15:20:02
Thierry Montoya
there's a business potential,
00:15:20:05 - 00:15:20:16
Thierry Montoya
you know,
00:15:20:22 - 00:15:24:03
Thierry Montoya
in terms of you put a you put education out there
00:15:24:05 - 00:15:27:12
Thierry Montoya
and someone says, that's exactly what I'm dealing with now.
00:15:27:15 - 00:15:31:15
Thierry Montoya
But we're also trolling for referral sources, aren't we?
00:15:31:19 - 00:15:33:18
Thierry Montoya
Throwing up bait? You know, because
00:15:33:23 - 00:15:35:08
Thierry Montoya
I know in my case, I,
00:15:35:12 - 00:15:37:12
Thierry Montoya
I, you know, I write.
00:15:37:16 - 00:15:41:01
Thierry Montoya
I get published, I do, you know, LinkedIn,
00:15:41:06 - 00:15:43:12
Thierry Montoya
several times a week,
00:15:43:14 - 00:15:44:03
Thierry Montoya
and
00:15:44:07 - 00:15:45:13
Thierry Montoya
I'm to me,
00:15:45:17 - 00:15:46:12
Thierry Montoya
the best,
00:15:46:15 - 00:15:48:20
Thierry Montoya
the, the best outcome is
00:15:49:01 - 00:15:51:07
Thierry Montoya
when someone that you've known for a long time
00:15:51:11 - 00:15:55:01
Thierry Montoya
says, you know what? Now I finally can refer someone to you.
00:15:55:05 - 00:15:58:05
Thierry Montoya
I've been. I've been listening and paying attention. And now
00:15:58:06 - 00:15:59:14
Thierry Montoya
I have, you know, a gift.
00:15:59:18 - 00:16:00:08
Seth Avergon
Yeah,
00:16:00:11 - 00:16:00:18
Seth Avergon
yeah.
00:16:00:18 - 00:16:08:21
Seth Avergon
They're almost looking for a chance to to have reciprocity. Right. They've been they've been experiencing the gift you've been giving for a period of time. And then
00:16:08:23 - 00:16:16:22
Seth Avergon
I've been there. I know what I've when I've people I listen to and I finally say, oh, wow, I can refer something to you. It feels good because I've been I've been taking.
00:16:16:23 - 00:16:23:03
Seth Avergon
Right? I've been, I've been, I've been accepting the information, the the blogs, the information for so long. Now I get a chance to give
00:16:23:07 - 00:16:23:11
Seth Avergon
back.
00:16:23:16 - 00:16:24:02
Thierry Montoya
So
00:16:24:08 - 00:16:27:21
Thierry Montoya
on the on the education side, let's talk about
00:16:28:02 - 00:16:30:19
Thierry Montoya
how to choose content topics that the
00:16:30:22 - 00:16:32:20
Thierry Montoya
buyers actually need.
00:16:33:00 - 00:16:34:02
Thierry Montoya
So
00:16:34:05 - 00:16:36:07
Thierry Montoya
many professionals publish
00:16:36:11 - 00:16:38:22
Thierry Montoya
what they find interesting, and I'm guilty of that.
00:16:39:02 - 00:16:42:22
Thierry Montoya
And buyers care about what they need when they feel pressure.
00:16:43:01 - 00:16:43:12
Thierry Montoya
So
00:16:43:17 - 00:16:47:00
Thierry Montoya
how should professionals choose topics?
00:16:47:04 - 00:16:47:17
Thierry Montoya
Is it
00:16:47:21 - 00:16:51:19
Thierry Montoya
from a from a purely, you know, business standpoint, passion?
00:16:51:21 - 00:16:52:22
Thierry Montoya
What are your thoughts on that?
00:16:53:03 - 00:16:56:05
Seth Avergon
There was a little bit of leading the witness in that question.
00:16:56:08 - 00:16:59:00
Seth Avergon
The your content counter should come from your customers.
00:16:59:05 - 00:17:04:02
Seth Avergon
Bottom line, it comes from your customers, their needs, their wants. Every now and then, if you want something, you want to put
00:17:04:03 - 00:17:13:03
Seth Avergon
the flag up. You guys are doing it. You're proud of. You did a project, but the majority of your content counter should come from questions they've asked you in the past
00:17:13:06 - 00:17:16:02
Seth Avergon
that you made notes on, because you've you're seeing the same question a couple of times.
00:17:16:03 - 00:17:18:15
Seth Avergon
Chances are there are a lot of folks out there that have the same question,
00:17:18:19 - 00:17:36:14
Seth Avergon
things that people are googling out there. This is where AI can be helpful into doing some market research for you. Seeing what people are putting in the forums, your customers will tell you what you need to talk about, what is important to them, where their knowledge gap is, where they have fear and uncertainty and hesitance and all those things that you want to address.
00:17:36:14 - 00:17:48:00
Seth Avergon
Like I said, every now and then, if you want to raise the flag on an awesome project or or something you're doing that you're really proud of or something, engagement in the community, awesome. But most your content should come from your audience.
00:17:48:03 - 00:17:52:13
Thierry Montoya
So possibly, you know, to use an example that we've talked about, you know, the question,
00:17:52:16 - 00:17:55:19
Thierry Montoya
the question I get the question you've heard
00:17:55:22 - 00:17:56:06
Thierry Montoya
from,
00:17:56:09 - 00:17:59:15
Thierry Montoya
from the consultants you've worked with is how long will this take?
00:17:59:20 - 00:18:04:12
Thierry Montoya
You know what triggers a deeper review? What should I what should we do now?
00:18:04:15 - 00:18:12:00
Thierry Montoya
You probably it might be worthwhile to consider those factors when you're trying to turn to look for reliable content.
00:18:12:03 - 00:18:20:00
Seth Avergon
Yeah. You know. Yeah. You know the stuff to ask and, and and people ask. People love lists. So the four things, the five things you need to know
00:18:20:00 - 00:18:33:21
Seth Avergon
before you go into this type of project. Right. The four things you need to do, people will read those. And also because it helps them from a mental standpoint. Okay, I'm going to quickly scan these four things and then I can read the content quickly.
00:18:33:23 - 00:18:35:04
Thierry Montoya
So here's another
00:18:35:08 - 00:18:36:06
Thierry Montoya
here's another
00:18:36:09 - 00:18:37:05
Thierry Montoya
difficult
00:18:37:09 - 00:18:38:23
Thierry Montoya
difficult issue in
00:18:39:01 - 00:18:40:17
Thierry Montoya
our, you know, regulated
00:18:40:21 - 00:18:42:19
Thierry Montoya
regulated world. And that is
00:18:42:21 - 00:18:47:09
Thierry Montoya
how to explain complex topics without dumbing them down. So
00:18:47:13 - 00:18:49:20
Thierry Montoya
that's a practical problem. The topic
00:18:50:01 - 00:18:53:19
Thierry Montoya
is complex, but the audience needs a clear takeaway.
00:18:54:00 - 00:19:00:06
Thierry Montoya
How do you explain complex topics without dumbing them down?
00:19:00:08 - 00:19:07:03
Seth Avergon
I would start with an understanding that although your audience is not technical, it does not mean they're not intelligent and cannot understand.
00:19:07:08 - 00:19:07:19
Seth Avergon
So
00:19:08:00 - 00:19:26:13
Seth Avergon
there are ways of communicating and saying in speaking as you see me, do I use a lot of analogies? I go through processes and kind of a way that people can understand. And when you get to highly technical stuff, you can you can stop and say, you know, you need you can explain an item,
00:19:26:16 - 00:19:33:00
Seth Avergon
or just kind of check it with them as you're going.
00:19:33:02 - 00:19:33:15
Seth Avergon
It is
00:19:33:20 - 00:19:36:22
Seth Avergon
consistent. Clear communication doesn't mean
00:19:37:03 - 00:19:50:02
Seth Avergon
it is not separate from non-technical. Right. You can communicate clearly and again go into detail on highly technical stuff and still use analogy and that sort of thing to to get that across because you don't getting to the bottom line, you
00:19:50:04 - 00:19:55:01
Seth Avergon
do not want to dumb it down for them, right? You want to communicate clearly with them and just try to use
00:19:55:02 - 00:19:56:20
Seth Avergon
as minimal jargon as you can,
00:19:57:02 - 00:20:01:01
Seth Avergon
but not, you know, you're you're not dealing with a fourth grader.
00:20:01:01 - 00:20:05:13
Seth Avergon
And chances are that they've got some understanding of what's going on, but they don't understand the exact level. So
00:20:05:17 - 00:20:13:19
Seth Avergon
my bottom line is don't dumb it down, but just minimize technical jargon. Jargon, and communicate in a clear way. And as much as you can break
00:20:13:20 - 00:20:15:01
Seth Avergon
it down to the simple stages.
00:20:15:06 - 00:20:19:21
Thierry Montoya
I often use a simple structure, context
00:20:20:02 - 00:20:23:18
Thierry Montoya
consequences. What to do next. And what to
00:20:23:20 - 00:20:24:06
Thierry Montoya
document.
00:20:24:10 - 00:20:28:04
Thierry Montoya
Is that is that sound? What would you what would you change? What would
00:20:28:05 - 00:20:29:07
Thierry Montoya
you add?
00:20:29:11 - 00:20:29:16
Seth Avergon
No.
00:20:29:16 - 00:20:29:19
Seth Avergon
I.
00:20:29:19 - 00:20:30:06
Seth Avergon
Love that.
00:20:30:06 - 00:20:39:03
Seth Avergon
I love that I mean I so context and consequences is perfect. People understand that. I often use challenge and solution and outcome, like when I'm working on
00:20:39:04 - 00:20:47:15
Seth Avergon
with clients on on case studies. It's very similar, right? I don't want you to change. I think what you're where you're at is exactly because it helps people kind of come in, put in boxes, not
00:20:47:19 - 00:20:48:13
Seth Avergon
put in boxes.
00:20:48:18 - 00:20:57:19
Seth Avergon
What? And if they have a question on the context, they can ask it there. They have a question on what they need to document. They can ask at that.
00:20:57:21 - 00:20:59:04
Thierry Montoya
We mentioned,
00:20:59:07 - 00:20:59:17
Thierry Montoya
before
00:20:59:22 - 00:21:01:06
Thierry Montoya
when we were talking about
00:21:01:11 - 00:21:02:19
Thierry Montoya
showing judgment
00:21:03:00 - 00:21:06:10
Thierry Montoya
and not drifting into violating confidentiality.
00:21:06:15 - 00:21:07:04
Thierry Montoya
00:21:07:06 - 00:21:08:14
Thierry Montoya
What does that look like
00:21:08:19 - 00:21:10:16
Thierry Montoya
for you in practice? And
00:21:10:22 - 00:21:15:11
Thierry Montoya
can you give us 1 or 2 safe? Safe examples.
00:21:15:13 - 00:21:16:15
Seth Avergon
Right. So we're.
00:21:16:15 - 00:21:16:23
Seth Avergon
Back to.
00:21:17:04 - 00:21:19:10
Thierry Montoya
Talk about a case study and not,
00:21:19:15 - 00:21:20:01
Thierry Montoya
you know,
00:21:20:06 - 00:21:20:16
Thierry Montoya
call,
00:21:20:20 - 00:21:21:23
Thierry Montoya
you know, Mr. X and
00:21:22:03 - 00:21:23:01
Thierry Montoya
government Y,
00:21:23:04 - 00:21:23:13
Thierry Montoya
right.
00:21:23:13 - 00:21:27:00
Seth Avergon
Yeah. No, it's a bit of the same thing we talked about earlier where. Yeah. You are
00:21:27:00 - 00:21:29:19
Seth Avergon
again, they're they're interested in seeing
00:21:29:19 - 00:21:32:07
Seth Avergon
how you handled things and how you handle things when they went
00:21:32:09 - 00:21:43:21
Seth Avergon
wrong. So having that that again, case studies that are done as hypotheticals, helps demonstrate that, we talked earlier about thought leadership. Also a big part of it in
00:21:44:01 - 00:21:48:18
Seth Avergon
general like this is these these are how we maneuver in these types of situations.
00:21:48:20 - 00:21:58:09
Seth Avergon
Confidentiality is key. You never want to violate that. And again, your clients aren't interested really in the in the in the nitty gritty details of what you do with someone else are interested in how you can how
00:21:58:10 - 00:22:01:00
Seth Avergon
what your experience, your process,
00:22:01:03 - 00:22:05:01
Seth Avergon
your manner of handling things, maps against what they're going to need. That's what they're.
00:22:05:01 - 00:22:07:18
Seth Avergon
Looking for.
00:22:07:20 - 00:22:12:10
Thierry Montoya
And I guess you could probably also if you wanted to. As an example, I was just thinking about this,
00:22:12:15 - 00:22:14:02
Thierry Montoya
you wanted to talk about,
00:22:14:04 - 00:22:17:22
Thierry Montoya
a new case. You know, you put the case
00:22:18:04 - 00:22:21:22
Thierry Montoya
into context and then you talk about, you know, a hypothetical and,
00:22:22:03 - 00:22:23:07
Thierry Montoya
and make it look like,
00:22:23:12 - 00:22:24:05
Thierry Montoya
you know, that
00:22:24:05 - 00:22:25:18
Thierry Montoya
was what you had to deal with.
00:22:25:22 - 00:22:26:11
Seth Avergon
Yeah.
00:22:26:15 - 00:22:29:07
Seth Avergon
And in doing these hypotheticals, you can also talk about,
00:22:29:12 - 00:22:30:11
Seth Avergon
depending on the client,
00:22:30:16 - 00:22:32:00
Seth Avergon
this is scenario A,
00:22:32:03 - 00:22:34:05
Seth Avergon
this is scenario B, this scenario is
00:22:34:07 - 00:22:44:13
Seth Avergon
depending on the feedback you're getting. Right. This is and if this is scenario A what happens once we get our data and our results back. This is what we're going to do if this scenario B and we get back a different number, this is how we're going to handle that.
00:22:44:14 - 00:22:48:21
Seth Avergon
So now again you're you're really back to storytelling and walking them through
00:22:49:01 - 00:22:52:23
Seth Avergon
how you are going to be there for them, how you are going to handle their their.
00:22:52:23 - 00:22:53:14
Seth Avergon
Specific
00:22:53:16 - 00:22:54:04
Seth Avergon
situation.
00:22:54:09 - 00:22:56:11
Thierry Montoya
So there's always a big push for marketing.
00:22:56:16 - 00:22:57:10
Thierry Montoya
And
00:22:57:10 - 00:22:59:22
Thierry Montoya
sometimes people start
00:23:00:03 - 00:23:00:05
Thierry Montoya
they
00:23:00:05 - 00:23:01:02
Thierry Montoya
don't realize
00:23:01:07 - 00:23:03:04
Thierry Montoya
it takes a long time.
00:23:03:06 - 00:23:04:17
Thierry Montoya
Sputter install. So
00:23:04:22 - 00:23:08:01
Thierry Montoya
let's talk about a simple, simple marketing plan and
00:23:08:05 - 00:23:13:19
Thierry Montoya
realistic for busy professionals because everybody says, well, I would love to do that, but I'm busy. So
00:23:13:23 - 00:23:21:13
Thierry Montoya
what is a realistic content and relationship plan that does not require a marketing department?
00:23:21:15 - 00:23:26:17
Seth Avergon
Before we get to content, I want to take a moment to stop back because you really should do at least a one pager
00:23:26:23 - 00:23:27:18
Seth Avergon
on who you are.
00:23:27:23 - 00:23:29:06
Seth Avergon
So that is
00:23:29:09 - 00:23:29:15
Seth Avergon
the
00:23:29:20 - 00:23:34:12
Seth Avergon
who am I is about your as a as an organization, your core values
00:23:34:17 - 00:23:39:15
Seth Avergon
and what is your unique selling proposition? In other words, why should someone buy from you versus someone else?
00:23:39:15 - 00:23:42:22
Seth Avergon
What do you do? Well, and then who's your audience
00:23:43:03 - 00:23:57:13
Seth Avergon
and what do you really want to say to them? Right. So take the time to do that because that will make your content flow so much easier if you have an understanding. And Simon Sinek talks a lot about this in is if you've seen it, it's a it's a Ted talk called start with why.
00:23:57:15 - 00:24:09:14
Seth Avergon
It's an older Ted talk but it's great. Yeah. Yeah. So that and that's the same concept right. Really start with these are our core values. This is our unique selling proposition. This is our audiences audience or audiences we speak to.
00:24:09:18 - 00:24:12:23
Seth Avergon
This is what we want to say to them. Once you have that take the time for that.
00:24:13:01 - 00:24:14:18
Seth Avergon
Then in terms of content.
00:24:14:23 - 00:24:19:06
Seth Avergon
Content should be simple, should be simplified. You don't need to be doing going crazy.
00:24:19:11 - 00:24:21:02
Seth Avergon
Pick decide on.
00:24:21:07 - 00:24:26:12
Seth Avergon
I'd rather see consistency and let's say one venue, whether it be LinkedIn or whatever you're going to use.
00:24:26:17 - 00:24:28:04
Seth Avergon
And you're putting out
00:24:28:09 - 00:24:32:05
Seth Avergon
one small piece of content per week. And then
00:24:32:10 - 00:24:36:10
Seth Avergon
let's say I think you talked about this once we reached out about doing one, one article a month.
00:24:36:10 - 00:24:46:18
Seth Avergon
I think you talked about going deeper into it and the beauty of developing content. If you're developing like, let's say, a deeper piece, you can cut that up and put it into your small content so you don't need to be doing a lot.
00:24:46:23 - 00:24:49:17
Seth Avergon
You should I much for prefer consistency
00:24:49:22 - 00:24:50:23
Seth Avergon
once a week,
00:24:51:03 - 00:24:52:05
Seth Avergon
same venue
00:24:52:09 - 00:24:54:13
Seth Avergon
talking to your audience in a way they appreciate it.
00:24:54:13 - 00:24:55:08
Seth Avergon
Talking to your audience
00:24:55:10 - 00:24:56:03
Seth Avergon
about things that
00:24:56:08 - 00:25:03:13
Seth Avergon
are of importance to them, then trying to be all over the place. Terry, you don't need to do a TikTok station. You don't need to get into doing TikTok dances or any of
00:25:03:13 - 00:25:05:11
Seth Avergon
that stuff. I would stay away from that for right now.
00:25:05:12 - 00:25:07:00
Thierry Montoya
That's not going to that's not going to
00:25:07:05 - 00:25:10:13
Thierry Montoya
that's going to generate ridicule, not business. Yeah.
00:25:10:18 - 00:25:16:05
Seth Avergon
And I mean, it's I've had clients ask me that stuff. I said, so do we, do we need like Instagram or TikTok? I'm like, no
00:25:16:10 - 00:25:17:02
Seth Avergon
you don't.
00:25:17:07 - 00:25:19:02
Thierry Montoya
Come here. You mentioned
00:25:19:07 - 00:25:21:19
Thierry Montoya
the one page. I mean, when I was
00:25:21:21 - 00:25:23:06
Thierry Montoya
and and I'm still
00:25:23:08 - 00:25:25:07
Thierry Montoya
guilty of that,
00:25:25:10 - 00:25:27:17
Thierry Montoya
on occasion here. But when I was starting out,
00:25:27:22 - 00:25:28:15
Thierry Montoya
you know, you
00:25:28:20 - 00:25:32:00
Thierry Montoya
it's hard to think about to be disciplined, about
00:25:32:05 - 00:25:33:05
Thierry Montoya
figuring out
00:25:33:10 - 00:25:34:12
Thierry Montoya
your audiences
00:25:34:15 - 00:25:35:21
Thierry Montoya
and then
00:25:36:01 - 00:25:41:09
Thierry Montoya
focusing on that and and staying consistent. Consistent in that regard. Because
00:25:41:14 - 00:25:43:18
Thierry Montoya
I remember, you know, I would just try and
00:25:43:23 - 00:25:45:14
Thierry Montoya
sell to, you know,
00:25:45:19 - 00:25:46:23
Thierry Montoya
a lot of people.
00:25:47:01 - 00:25:51:11
Thierry Montoya
And it just didn't I was wasting time.
00:25:51:13 - 00:25:58:23
Seth Avergon
You know, we all start out there. I want to be fair, when you're first starting a business, you know the answer to who your customer is is anybody who will pay you right when you're.
00:25:59:01 - 00:26:09:19
Seth Avergon
That's your customer. Give me a sweep up. Fine. I got that covered. As soon as you're at a level of competency, you want to niche down as quickly as possible to serve a specific audience.
00:26:09:19 - 00:26:26:12
Seth Avergon
And absolutely. The one pager will take a little time, but once it's done, a it should be shared with other if there are other individuals in your firm doing it so that we're all kind of okay, we're all saying we're all singing the same song, so to speak. It makes content flow so much easier because then you're not all over the place.
00:26:26:12 - 00:26:34:17
Seth Avergon
You're not, you're not trying to serve everyone. I had an old mentor one time who said, Seth, you know, if you try to serve all audiences, you'll end up serving none of them. Well,
00:26:34:21 - 00:26:35:14
Seth Avergon
you got to pick,
00:26:35:19 - 00:26:41:01
Seth Avergon
and that's hard. We don't want to do that. We don't want to leave. The theory is the the fears. We're going to leave money on the table.
00:26:41:02 - 00:26:42:18
Seth Avergon
Right. If we do that and
00:26:43:00 - 00:26:44:05
Seth Avergon
you don't, you know,
00:26:44:10 - 00:26:46:23
Seth Avergon
I guess in the short term, first year getting started, I get it,
00:26:47:02 - 00:26:52:01
Seth Avergon
man. Anything comes to the door, you're going to take it. But as soon as you've got your wheels, you're up, you're running
00:26:52:07 - 00:26:56:23
Seth Avergon
niche down, niche down. The old cliche saying is the riches are
00:26:57:00 - 00:26:57:17
Seth Avergon
in the niches.
00:26:57:21 - 00:27:00:14
Thierry Montoya
Thank you. Never heard that. I won't forget that.
00:27:00:19 - 00:27:06:01
Seth Avergon
And it's hard because there are a lot of a lot of organizations have shiny object syndrome. Right.
00:27:06:06 - 00:27:08:00
Seth Avergon
There's money over here. This money over there.
00:27:08:02 - 00:27:13:09
Seth Avergon
Discipline and process is where it's at.
00:27:13:11 - 00:27:14:23
Thierry Montoya
Is there in the niches? That's I
00:27:15:03 - 00:27:16:08
Thierry Montoya
let's go with that.
00:27:16:13 - 00:27:16:22
Thierry Montoya
So
00:27:17:03 - 00:27:19:03
Thierry Montoya
your you have your one page,
00:27:19:08 - 00:27:21:07
Thierry Montoya
your your posting.
00:27:21:13 - 00:27:22:19
Thierry Montoya
You know, once a week
00:27:23:01 - 00:27:24:17
Thierry Montoya
you have articles,
00:27:24:22 - 00:27:25:23
Thierry Montoya
you know, once a month.
00:27:26:04 - 00:27:26:23
Thierry Montoya
How do you know
00:27:27:04 - 00:27:30:13
Thierry Montoya
your approach is working. A lot of people,
00:27:30:18 - 00:27:34:13
Thierry Montoya
you know, look at likes and impressions. In your view,
00:27:34:17 - 00:27:35:06
Thierry Montoya
what
00:27:35:08 - 00:27:36:11
Thierry Montoya
signals mattered more?
00:27:36:16 - 00:27:37:22
Seth Avergon
Yeah. Not that.
00:27:38:02 - 00:27:38:11
Seth Avergon
So,
00:27:38:16 - 00:27:45:15
Seth Avergon
so. And I've dealt with this with clients before. Well, often I it's going to shock you. I'm getting on the marketing guy coming in, and often I'm actually reducing,
00:27:45:20 - 00:27:47:06
Seth Avergon
let's say if they've got advertising,
00:27:47:10 - 00:27:50:15
Seth Avergon
I'm more interested in quality than I am quantity.
00:27:50:19 - 00:27:55:14
Seth Avergon
So how that shows up is in the quality of conversations you're having?
00:27:55:18 - 00:28:01:06
Seth Avergon
Not so much. Look, we had 10,000 likes versus okay, we had 1000 likes on this.
00:28:01:11 - 00:28:02:18
Seth Avergon
But what's interesting is
00:28:02:22 - 00:28:18:05
Seth Avergon
we're having more conversations. We're having people reach out to us. We're having quality conversations, not tire kickers, but quality conversations about this. And we're closing more. The end of the day, you're always looking at right, are we closing more are we are, you know, dollars dollars and cents.
00:28:18:10 - 00:28:18:23
Seth Avergon
But I
00:28:19:04 - 00:28:24:08
Seth Avergon
a lot of, a lot of marketing metrics out there are not appropriate for the technical world where I
00:28:24:13 - 00:28:28:14
Seth Avergon
if we were selling hot dogs or something like that, or a consumer product, a low price
00:28:28:17 - 00:28:33:12
Seth Avergon
consumer product, that'd be one thing. Then you're all about big funnel, bringing it down. This is
00:28:33:14 - 00:28:35:03
Seth Avergon
such a tight knit group.
00:28:35:04 - 00:28:37:20
Seth Avergon
Night night, niche audience. You're focusing on
00:28:38:01 - 00:28:43:12
Seth Avergon
my concern or my biggest. My North Star is developing quality conversations
00:28:43:16 - 00:28:49:05
Seth Avergon
that lead to shorter sales cycles and more closing.
00:28:49:07 - 00:28:55:11
Thierry Montoya
I echo that, you know, for me, I post consistently on LinkedIn, but
00:28:55:17 - 00:29:02:01
Thierry Montoya
when I for me, I say, oh, this post worked. When someone reposts it
00:29:02:06 - 00:29:03:19
Thierry Montoya
with comments, that's,
00:29:03:23 - 00:29:04:11
Thierry Montoya
that's
00:29:04:15 - 00:29:05:15
Thierry Montoya
that's a triple.
00:29:05:19 - 00:29:06:16
Thierry Montoya
That's a home run to
00:29:06:20 - 00:29:07:00
Thierry Montoya
me.
00:29:07:06 - 00:29:18:01
Seth Avergon
I mean, we're all getting we all get these emails from, from from companies out there saying we can give you 10,000 leads in 30 days. And I'm like, what kind of what kind of quality of lead are you bringing me? Yeah. That
00:29:18:07 - 00:29:19:03
Seth Avergon
so you you
00:29:19:07 - 00:29:23:01
Seth Avergon
massive numbers are kind of a smokescreen, and you kind of nailed it earlier with, oh, numbers
00:29:23:03 - 00:29:23:12
Seth Avergon
of likes.
00:29:23:12 - 00:29:32:05
Seth Avergon
It's like that doesn't. That doesn't mean a lot to me. That's interesting information. What is more interesting and is actionable is, again, conversations,
00:29:32:09 - 00:29:34:06
Seth Avergon
educated customers coming in
00:29:34:11 - 00:29:39:01
Seth Avergon
short sale cycles, greater closing.
00:29:39:03 - 00:29:43:08
Thierry Montoya
So it's hard to find a subject where you don't have to talk about AI.
00:29:43:12 - 00:29:44:03
Thierry Montoya
So
00:29:44:05 - 00:29:49:02
Thierry Montoya
using AI safely in regulated marketing. So
00:29:49:07 - 00:29:50:15
Thierry Montoya
it's a big issue. So
00:29:50:19 - 00:29:52:07
Thierry Montoya
in regulated work
00:29:52:12 - 00:29:53:17
Thierry Montoya
almost right
00:29:53:22 - 00:29:56:13
Thierry Montoya
can be costly because your reputation is on the line.
00:29:56:18 - 00:30:03:10
Thierry Montoya
And certainly AI tools will save a lot of time but can also produce confident errors. So
00:30:03:14 - 00:30:07:10
Thierry Montoya
how should professionals use AI safely in the in
00:30:07:13 - 00:30:08:12
Thierry Montoya
the marketing realm?
00:30:08:16 - 00:30:17:13
Seth Avergon
I heard one speaker talk about AI and instead of saying say, if you think of it not as artificial intelligence, but augmented intelligence, it makes it
00:30:17:13 - 00:30:30:02
Seth Avergon
a lot easier. And it's augmenting your intelligence, right? It's not replacing it. Yeah. And another one that I really liked was when you. So it's artificial intelligence AI. It's a wonderful tool
00:30:30:06 - 00:30:31:01
Seth Avergon
for several things.
00:30:31:01 - 00:30:48:14
Seth Avergon
It does several things very well and other things rather poorly, frankly. It's great on getting you moving. If you got writer's block, it'll get you out pretty quickly. It can help you draft. It can help you look at things. But you want to treat it like an intern. So if you were if you were checking the work of an intern, you'd
00:30:48:16 - 00:30:50:05
Seth Avergon
be looking for the mistakes, right?
00:30:50:11 - 00:31:00:17
Seth Avergon
Versus a colleague. Yeah. So treat it like an intern that we'll see if it look for where the mistakes are. Could because that's the challenge on AI is when it makes mistakes. It says them
00:31:00:17 - 00:31:04:12
Seth Avergon
with the with as much confidence as it does the other things that it states. So
00:31:04:17 - 00:31:06:17
Seth Avergon
you need to be even more of an
00:31:06:19 - 00:31:07:23
Seth Avergon
expert with AI
00:31:08:04 - 00:31:12:21
Seth Avergon
than without it, because you are looking for what it got wrong.
00:31:12:23 - 00:31:20:13
Seth Avergon
Again, it's it's a great tool for drafting. It's a great tool for brainstorming. It's a great tool for give me four versions of this.
00:31:20:18 - 00:31:33:17
Seth Avergon
But it starts and ends with the human being. If you have a bad and this is overall if you're using AI and your companies and we're seeing a lot of AI deployments fail, because if you have a bad strategy or bad processes,
00:31:33:19 - 00:31:34:18
Seth Avergon
AI is not going to help.
00:31:34:18 - 00:31:39:21
Seth Avergon
It doesn't fix that actually accelerates your downfall. If you are
00:31:39:21 - 00:31:46:06
Seth Avergon
thoughtful in how you use it, absolutely. You can accelerate things up and move things quicker, but it does not. It cannot replace
00:31:46:10 - 00:31:49:06
Seth Avergon
poor thinking.
00:31:49:08 - 00:31:50:02
Thierry Montoya
you and
00:31:50:07 - 00:31:51:18
Thierry Montoya
if your credibility
00:31:51:23 - 00:31:53:13
Thierry Montoya
or anybody's credibility, you
00:31:53:19 - 00:31:55:19
Thierry Montoya
take a hit. But as as a professional.
00:31:56:00 - 00:31:57:14
Thierry Montoya
If your credibility
00:31:57:15 - 00:31:59:07
Thierry Montoya
is in question,
00:31:59:12 - 00:32:01:00
Thierry Montoya
that's devastating. That's.
00:32:01:02 - 00:32:02:22
Thierry Montoya
May not ever be able to rebuild it.
00:32:03:00 - 00:32:12:13
Seth Avergon
Yeah. Especially if you're dealing on the legal side or you're dealing with highly technical stuff. You really any facts have to be checked in there. So again it drafts it can give you different versions.
00:32:12:16 - 00:32:22:11
Seth Avergon
But the final check I actually prefer two people, frankly. One who's kind of checking the content that they developed and then just a third person who hasn't seen it before just to kind of do a final review
00:32:22:16 - 00:32:25:05
Seth Avergon
on it and and just give a final blessing.
00:32:25:05 - 00:32:28:01
Seth Avergon
I always like two sets of eyes. I don't know if that's always possible,
00:32:28:05 - 00:32:31:12
Seth Avergon
but just because we tend to, you know, we tend to love our work.
00:32:31:17 - 00:32:32:10
Seth Avergon
And so,
00:32:32:13 - 00:32:43:06
Seth Avergon
so, you know, you come in, you want to draft some content, you're using AI to do it. You check it looks good, looks solid. You checked all the references, send it to somebody else and said, hey, just doing.
00:32:43:07 - 00:32:46:13
Seth Avergon
What do you think? Is this look good?
00:32:46:15 - 00:32:48:04
Thierry Montoya
That's that's a good strategy.
00:32:48:08 - 00:32:52:07
Thierry Montoya
First of all, treat it as augmented intelligence.
00:32:52:13 - 00:32:56:13
Thierry Montoya
Treat it as if you it was an associate or a summer intern.
00:32:56:18 - 00:33:01:14
Thierry Montoya
And, one last look, and it was someone who,
00:33:01:18 - 00:33:02:17
Thierry Montoya
you know, just going to pick
00:33:02:18 - 00:33:04:02
Thierry Montoya
it up and read it for the first time.
00:33:04:07 - 00:33:10:23
Seth Avergon
Yeah. Another strategy I used to see with with with with consultants. And I like this this is proposals more than AI. But they would do a
00:33:10:23 - 00:33:12:18
Seth Avergon
using a cooling off period on documents.
00:33:12:22 - 00:33:13:07
Seth Avergon
No.
00:33:13:12 - 00:33:18:10
Seth Avergon
Yeah. So if you're ready a big proposal and you've been working on it for a couple of hours
00:33:18:15 - 00:33:22:15
Seth Avergon
and it has to go in, if you've got time, walk away
00:33:22:17 - 00:33:29:05
Seth Avergon
from the document, look at it in the morning, cool off the document a little bit because you tend to have a when you when you're too deep into something.
00:33:29:05 - 00:33:45:05
Seth Avergon
We all do this, you miss things. It just happens. The brain fills things in. I can't tell you. Many times I have like, oh, there's an an that goes in there and I and my brain was filling it in. And when I go back and check it, the second. Okay. Yeah, I'm missing a participle.
00:33:45:07 - 00:33:45:14
Thierry Montoya
I,
00:33:45:20 - 00:33:50:05
Thierry Montoya
I have a partner that reads, that reads a, a giraffe backwards
00:33:50:10 - 00:33:51:02
Thierry Montoya
so he
00:33:51:04 - 00:33:52:09
Thierry Montoya
doesn't get lulled
00:33:52:13 - 00:34:00:10
Thierry Montoya
and, you know, in his own writing and his style and stuff, and he that works. But I can't
00:34:00:15 - 00:34:02:21
Thierry Montoya
my mind can't get across, can't, can't deal
00:34:02:21 - 00:34:04:10
Thierry Montoya
with reading it backwards.
00:34:04:15 - 00:34:05:16
Seth Avergon
Interesting. I like that,
00:34:05:20 - 00:34:06:05
Seth Avergon
Seth.
00:34:06:06 - 00:34:09:10
Thierry Montoya
We having a masterclass in marketing from you. So
00:34:09:14 - 00:34:12:15
Thierry Montoya
tell our listeners, where they can find you
00:34:12:19 - 00:34:13:08
Thierry Montoya
and,
00:34:13:08 - 00:34:14:18
Thierry Montoya
the
00:34:14:20 - 00:34:16:03
Thierry Montoya
work that you can do for them.
00:34:16:07 - 00:34:22:21
Seth Avergon
Sure. He just had reached me. Is on LinkedIn. I'm the only Seth Aragon on LinkedIn. Or you can find me on my website, which is Avalon
00:34:22:21 - 00:34:23:11
Seth Avergon
Marketing.
00:34:23:15 - 00:34:24:04
Seth Avergon
and
00:34:24:06 - 00:34:35:16
Seth Avergon
yeah, for what I like to do with my clients again, technical clients has come in, really look at the business, and help them devise strategies to communicate in
00:34:35:21 - 00:34:36:22
Seth Avergon
manner who they are
00:34:37:03 - 00:34:40:03
Seth Avergon
and how they're going to help people, not credentials so much.
00:34:40:04 - 00:34:49:13
Seth Avergon
And that's still part of it in the background. But I'm more interested in creating those credible conversations that then lead to business.
00:34:49:15 - 00:34:51:04
Thierry Montoya
So for our listeners,
00:34:51:06 - 00:34:53:18
Thierry Montoya
here's some takeaways from today. And
00:34:54:00 - 00:34:55:01
Thierry Montoya
you,
00:34:55:03 - 00:34:57:01
Thierry Montoya
you can add or,
00:34:57:04 - 00:35:00:14
Thierry Montoya
clarify something. The riches are in the niches. Don't be
00:35:00:20 - 00:35:03:12
Thierry Montoya
don't be the professional for everybody.
00:35:03:16 - 00:35:08:09
Thierry Montoya
If you want better clients, better conversations, start with clarity.
00:35:08:11 - 00:35:10:10
Thierry Montoya
Make no guarantees.
00:35:10:15 - 00:35:14:14
Thierry Montoya
Write down the questions clients ask and when they feel pressure,
00:35:14:18 - 00:35:15:12
Thierry Montoya
pick one.
00:35:15:17 - 00:35:17:06
Thierry Montoya
Answer it in plain English.
00:35:17:11 - 00:35:21:10
Thierry Montoya
Explain the consequences. Right, what to do next and what to document.
00:35:21:15 - 00:35:23:04
Thierry Montoya
And then over time,
00:35:23:08 - 00:35:26:23
Thierry Montoya
that kind of teaching builds trust and makes it easier for the right people
00:35:27:04 - 00:35:28:08
Thierry Montoya
to call you first.
00:35:28:13 - 00:35:29:06
Thierry Montoya
Do I get it?
00:35:29:11 - 00:35:34:14
Seth Avergon
I love it. Yeah. I mean, look at how you approach clients. Like you're very easy to talk to.
00:35:34:19 - 00:35:38:11
Seth Avergon
That makes it easier for, you know, especially when they've got, again, knowledge
00:35:38:14 - 00:35:42:11
Seth Avergon
gap challenges, hesitancy, fear, uncertainties.
00:35:42:16 - 00:35:53:09
Seth Avergon
They can have a warm conversation with you. They can feel vulnerable and say, this is what I'm concerned about, and you'll talk to them in a very plain manner and say, well, let's let's go through
00:35:53:09 - 00:35:53:20
Seth Avergon
that.
00:35:54:01 - 00:35:54:17
Seth Avergon
That's huge.
00:35:54:23 - 00:35:59:14
Thierry Montoya
Thank you very much for joining me. I hope I will see you
00:35:59:18 - 00:36:03:14
Thierry Montoya
at the the environmental practitioner group that we host. We're hosting
00:36:03:16 - 00:36:04:07
Thierry Montoya
again
00:36:04:11 - 00:36:06:11
Thierry Montoya
next month in Newport Beach.
00:36:06:16 - 00:36:08:19
Thierry Montoya
Please join us. You're always welcome.
00:36:08:23 - 00:36:09:23
Thierry Montoya
Your,
00:36:10:02 - 00:36:13:05
Thierry Montoya
your source of great information and
00:36:13:07 - 00:36:14:17
Thierry Montoya
marketing inspiration.
00:36:14:21 - 00:36:16:07
Seth Avergon
Thank you, I appreciate that.
00:36:16:11 - 00:39:48:15
Thierry Montoya
Well, a great episode. Thanks for listening to Essential Environmental and we will catch you the next time.
00:39:48:17 - 00:39:55:20
Seth Avergon
And I would say, if there's one thing I see clients get off and wrong
00:39:55:22 - 00:39:56:10
Seth Avergon
you,
00:39:56:13 - 00:40:04:19
Seth Avergon
the customer, you the company are not the hero of the story.
00:40:04:21 - 00:40:07:14
Thierry Montoya
what do professionals and regulated fields
00:40:07:19 - 00:40:09:11
Thierry Montoya
misunderstand about marketing?
00:40:09:16 - 00:40:11:14
Seth Avergon
is an understanding that
00:40:11:17 - 00:40:13:17
Seth Avergon
in the storytelling that is marketing
00:40:13:21 - 00:40:14:09
Seth Avergon
you,
00:40:14:12 - 00:40:18:01
Seth Avergon
the customer, you the company are not the hero of the story.
00:40:18:04 - 00:40:24:01
Seth Avergon
You are their guide. You are their their person. I'll give the analogy from Star Wars. You are not
00:40:24:03 - 00:40:25:18
Seth Avergon
Luke Skywalker in this one.
00:40:25:19 - 00:40:29:07
Seth Avergon
You are Obi-Wan Kenobi. You are guiding them towards a solution,
00:40:29:09 - 00:40:31:14
Seth Avergon
but you are not the hero of the story.
00:40:31:14 - 00:40:37:15
Seth Avergon
And oftentimes when I see companies try to present themselves there, presenting who they are and what they're about
00:40:37:18 - 00:40:38:11
Seth Avergon
versus
00:40:38:15 - 00:40:41:08
Seth Avergon
how they're going to help that client move
00:40:41:11 - 00:42:59:22
Seth Avergon
forward.
00:43:00:00 - 00:43:01:22
Thierry Montoya
This is frightening to a lot of people.
00:43:02:02 - 00:43:07:12
Seth Avergon
See, I think a lot of people think of marketing as this loud bang, get out there and say things. And
00:43:07:17 - 00:43:09:23
Seth Avergon
when your marketing for a technical professional,
00:43:10:04 - 00:43:16:09
Seth Avergon
my job is to help you create or be involved in discussions and conversations that are meaningful
00:43:16:13 - 00:43:20:11
Seth Avergon
for that client. It's not loud. It's
00:43:20:15 - 00:43:30:00
Seth Avergon
really showing what you're good at in a way that they can understand, in a way that you can demonstrate your process and your expertise and your discipline around a specific area, versus
00:43:30:03 - 00:43:30:13
Seth Avergon
kind of
00:43:30:16 - 00:43:32:17
Seth Avergon
slogans and big logos.
00:43:32:21 - 00:43:40:20
Seth Avergon
It's not what it's about. It's about, as you said, they're risk averse. They're coming in with genuine fear and a huge uncertainty gap often. And so that's
00:43:40:21 - 00:43:41:15
Seth Avergon
where you start.