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What sets this podcast apart? We believe in the power of meaningful marketing—a holistic approach that prioritises authenticity, connection, and purpose, whilst still turning a profit.
Chantal Gerardy is an International Award Winning Marketing Strategist who empowers purpose-led businesses to revolutionise their online marketing approach and create a brand that resonates deeply with their online audience. If you're tired of cookie-cutter marketing advice, and seek strategies that truly make a difference, this podcast is for you.
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Social media, Google, email marketing, systems, website traffic, and the endless content creation that comes with marketing. It's overwhelming, right? Say goodbye to endless stress and hello to clarity with The Meaningful Marketing Podcast. In this podcast, I will share with you fast and free practical methods to help you manage, monetize, and market your business, all infused with a healthy dose of motivation.
Let's do this. Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Meaningful Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Chantal Gerardy, and today I've got Mark Miles with me. Mark is a public speaking coach and a workshop facilitation expo- expert, so we're in for a treat today. Um, he works with small business owners who...
And helps them build public speaking confidence, and also to help them run their own workshops. And we're having a little joke beforehand because I was going, "Everybody thinks they can do it." Um, a lot of people will get up on stage and speak, speak, speak, and run workshop, workshop, workshop, and then not get any clients because they've done a really poor job at it.
So, - That absolutely- ... it's
lovely to have you here ... can happen. Uh, first thing I'd love to do, Chantal, is give you a copy of each of my books.
Ah,
yay. And so the first one there is about face-to-face workshop facilitation, and the second one is about online facilitation.
Oh, excellent.
So how to present well from Zoom.
There we go.
There we go. Guys, if you're on YouTube you can see I'm holding them up right now. Um, I'm really excited because I just broke my toe. So, um, I've got lots and lots of time to sit and read at the moment, so I'll be doing that.
Well, the story behind those books is actually quite funny because I actually wrote them after I had a wisdom tooth extracted.
So there you go. There you go.
Uh, well, some people would say that having a wisdom tooth extracted is probably- Yeah ... a- is as painful as public speaking. So let's go into public speaking.
Sure.
And let's talk about, what are some of the reasons people want to public speak? Like, because you work in the space all the time- Mm
you obviously hear from people all the time. Why do they want to public speak? Why is it a goal and aspiration for them?
I guess they wanna do it because they wanna put themselves out there. Even social media, we often think, "Oh, I'm just gonna put a reel up or a video of myself up or something like that."
And people, there's, I guess there's two camps. There's one camp where, "I'm petrified to do it. There's no way I could push that record button." And then the other camp, they get on and their content's just- Crap. Terribly, if I could say that. Um, just because they're showing up, but they show up and throw up, and they really deliver content in a way that's got no structure to it.
They don't engage their audience, and they leave a bad taste in the mind of the audience, and really they get less followers with the more they do, if that kinda makes sense. So I think ultimately the reason people wanna do it is put themselves out there, but also, um, challenge themselves a little bit to also go to the next level, whatever that is for them.
And I think ultimately at the core, as we always say in the professional and personal development world, we've always got a message inside of us that we wanna get out and, you know, leave a legacy. But I think definitely in the positive intent, everyone wants to make the world a little bit better, and they see public speaking as an avenue to be able to do that, whether that's via video or face-to-face presentations or even running workshops.
Yeah, I love that so much. I mean, all of us can think of a time when you actually watched a, a, a speaker, and you've gone, "Oh my gosh, that was like the worst like 20 minutes or one hour I've just spent." Um, or been to a workshop facilitation, like a workshop and gone, "The facilitation was just terrible. I, I've, I'm actually leaving overwhelmed.
I don't actually know what, um, what I should do next. Um, what a waste of time that was." Um, or I've been to other events where it's been so scripted- Mm ... and I can actually go, there's, there's one organisation, I won't name them. Private message me, PM me and I'll let you know. Um, but there's one s- speaker's place that does training, and literally when somebody's been trained by them, I go, when they walk to the left, they walk to the right, they pause, they look up this way, and I go, "I know who that person's been to for training."
Yeah. And I go, "I'm all for coaching, but I'm also for authenticity." Mm. So, um, and I love that you said- Show up and throw up, is that what you said?
Mm. I did,
yeah. Love that. Show up and throw up. Love it. So tell us a little bit about your story. How did you get into doing this?
Uh, as I often say, the people that hate doing the thing the most often have to overcome the fear of doing the thing.
So in high school I would chuck a sickie in order to avoid having to do the English presentation or speech, right? I don't know if your listeners can relate, but I just had that fear. I'm like, "The last thing I want to do is stand in front of audience and be judged." Uh, but my stepdad, he was a schoolteacher, and he by default just kept pushing me out in front of the crowd.
I'm like, "Stop, I hate it." Uh, but eventually, um, in high school one thing I could do well was speak Japanese. So I picked up that skill, and for some reason that just gave me a bit of confidence. So I went and lived in Japan for three months. Uh, came back to Australia, started working at a convenience store in Service Paradise for five years speaking Japanese.
And then eventually finished uni, went and lived in Japan for eight years, and fell into teaching. And I just found I had a great love for actually teaching people and understanding how people actually learn. And then I became a teacher trainer, and then came back to Australia, worked at a university on the Gold Coast.
And then I thought, "I know, I want to have a big impact on the world," and as many do, "I want to become a corporate trainer. That would be great." But, um, fell into a role teaching a diploma of leadership and management, which is great, because I had a real affinity for management. Um, but then realised that a lot of the train-the-trainer courses out there were not actually teaching people how to effectively design a course, deliver it, and I came away a little bit frustrated.
And I wanted to be able to have an impact, but didn't have the tools to be able to do it. So had a relationship breakdown, as you do, then went off to a seminar up in Brisbane, and some people would know the name of it, but I won't say. It doesn't exist anymore. But at that seminar I signed up for a public speaking course, and it was back in 2009.
And there it was basically nine days straight of just public speaking, for nine days straight. From 8:30 in the morning till 7:00 at night. And by day two and a half I was just like, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna let myself go and just see what happens." And the last day culminated in having to do a 30-minute presentation with no notes.
And I just found that through that process I really got curious about what actually has to happen for someone to overcome those fears. And then found myself in a lead trainer role for a couple of training organisations, and for the last seven or eight years traveled all around Australia teaching the train-the-trainer program.
But then- From that basically started branching to also helping business owners as well, because I realised that what was holding them back was exactly the same things. Being able to have the confidence to put themselves out there, the ability to engage an audience, and ultimately the structure to be able to put their content together.
And once they had those three pieces then they were pretty much good to go. And even yesterday I caught up with an old client of mine, he's a lawyer, and he's now pretty much every three or four weeks he's speaking at his networking event talking about what he does in, uh, commercial law or even wills and estates.
And before, before we worked together he didn't have the confidence to be able to speak in front of small groups. But then he came along to my workshop, and now he just does it regularly like it's just a normal thing to do. So those kind of transformations are really rewarding. Um, and then just touching on my second book there which is online facilitation, um, we all went through COVID, and COVID really impacted the training world and the speaking world.
Even the Anthony Robbins of the world, he shifted to online delivery via Zoom, and he runs his three-day event. But I just noticed a lot of people struggled to go online. It was like, "What do I do? Show up and just read a script? What do I do?" And so yeah, I started to look at the greats, and I started to unpack what they did, and then I just started to share that in my book and run a lot of workshops on how do you do that effectively as well.
And yeah, so me growing up hating it, that really inspired me to go out there and just make it easier for other people, if that kinda makes sense.
Yeah, it's awesome. Everyone... Yeah, like you said, everybody's story has led them to where they are right now. Mm. You know? And gives them their passion, which is awesome.
So let's just talk about some of the things that can go wrong with workshop facilitation, right? Facilitating a workshop. For me obviously as a marketing person I always go running a workshop, usually they've got a poor name for the workshop. I don't know if you're gonna agree with me on these ones. Yeah.
But for me, like the name is the most important thing, 'cause it's got to stop the right person and get them to actually commit to that workshop. You know, coming up with, you know, what the actual workshop is about and who it's for, getting really clear on that. The marketing and the event marketing that has to happen, then getting people to actually show up.
But then at the actual workshop itself you've got to be able to deliver on what they've paid for. Mm. Right? So if they've paid for something, they- you've got to deliver on what they've paid for. But if you're using it as a lead generation tool, which I'm sure sometimes that would happen with these workshops, the whole goal is to actually make a sale at the end of the workshop, which means if you fudge that up- Mm
like you're not gonna get that sale at the end, and you're actually gonna be further away from having that person as a client.
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. I guess, um, you sort of led off with what are the mistakes, but I guess, um, first of all, if I'm an audience member, I need to feel like I can trust the facilitator or trust the speaker.
So that comes down to credibility, but also if I signed up or did more with you, do I feel like I've gotten the certainty that you'll deliver on that? And that's not just you've got all the references to your name, it is when I came along to your event, did I actually get the value that I thought I was gonna get when I showed up?
And whenever we're marketing within a presentation environment, it's always tough because we've got to create that tension of, "I'm gonna give you what you came for," but also open up a loop of, "Yes, there's more to learn." And that's where a lot often a lot of teachers struggle because they're like, "Oh, I can't really open those loops."
Um, I guess for me, um, I see a lot of events on the Gold Coast and nationally, um, and I guess one of the things that people struggle with is that people will come along and they will forget what it's like to be an audience member And they will also think, "I'm just gonna show up and throw up, say my spiel, and then hope for the best at the end."
And I think that ultimately the end of a presentation, there must be very clear progress- there must be clear articulation of what's gonna happen next. The eight-step program, the 10-step program, what am I actually signing up for, and what are the goals? What, what am I gonna achieve at the end of it? I think also in regards to facilitation, if we're actually running our workshop, we forget there's actually four stages to learning anything.
And as a facilitator, we think, or speaker, we think, "I'll just say it once, and that's enough." And studies actually show people need to hear things 19 times before they hear it and act upon it, and that's from marketing studies. Then as a participant, someone needs to do something 64 times-
Oh, wow ...
before it becomes muscle memory.
And so as a facilitator, we often think, "Oh, just pop me into an activity once," and they've automatically got it, and it's not the case. And when we speak, we need to have multiple exposures to the content, and we need to provide multiple exposures. We need to have multiple types of activities that people do.
We need to have multiple times that people are enmeshed and immersed into the different ideas and concepts. So the four stages of learning is, number one, exposure. Number two is practice. Number three is personalization, and number four is application. So what's that gonna look like? And when we're delivering our content and we're marketing, we need to really think about the fact that someone's developmental journey, whether that's meditation, or whether that's health and wellness, or whether that's any topic at all that we're marketing, whether it's real estate, whether that's, um, I don't know, whether it's legal stuff, people don't just hear it and automatically get it.
There is a learning process that people go through, and I think the more you understand that, the more you have empathy for your clients, and the more you stage out the progression of what you're actually delivering because you know that marketing isn't just, you know, one time and you're done. It's how do we create long-term relationships.
Oh, it's so true. I mean, I remember when I first sp- started speaking, I literally would get up there, and I'd just throw up. Show up, throw up. Give it up. Um, and I would just, I would just talk to the crowd, just wanna get it over and done with. Mm. Speak in, like, one tone really fast, and, you know, just get to the end, get it all done, and try and pack in as much information as possible, hoping that they would, uh, get value from it- Mm
and see how clever I was. Um, and that's how I first started on. Mm. Then I started realizing, well, this doesn't work anymore, Ryan. Um- And had to make sure that all those trust factors are in there- Mm ... that the credibility's in there, but, but also that I'm not selling to them, that I'm actually serving- Mm
serving, and I'm meeting them where they're at. Um, and I like to think I've improved since then, hopefully. Um, so so many good juicy parts in there. Mm. Um, now webinar presentations is a thing that I do a lot of. I used to do a lot of them. I'm actually doing less and less of it now, but webinar presentations, people come to me and go they want a we- a webinar funnel- Mm
a webinar presentation. And we had one lady last week, and I think it was like a 15-minute presentation, and she had like 120 slides. And every single slide- Mm ... had like... There was writing on every... Like literally she'd taken her entire presentation and, like, written it- Mm ... all on that. Um, and I see people doing this even with Instagram carousels, and it's like, keep that for the caption.
Mm. That's for the caption. The image just needs a hook. Mm. Like a hook, a point, like FOMO, something like that does not need... You don't have to write everything out in there, right? Um, where was I going with that? So with the webinar presentation, um, do you have like a format? I mean, a, uh... 'Cause you do workshops, but if somebody was running a workshop and it was an online workshop, and I'm throwing you in the deep end with this one, it's an online workshop, they're doing it via a webinar, what are some of the, the tactics that you would use or some of the considerations that you'd have in formatting that online workshop, that, that, that Zoom webinar?
First of all, I'd step back and go, "What's the intent?"
Yeah.
What am I actually trying to achieve? I think if it's a sales webinar, then you can max it out to 100 or 1,000 people for sure. If you're actually looking to create transformation, which is the whole theme of my company, which is, um, th- and that's why I call my books Create Transformation, I think I- the ideal numbers for a workshop on a webinar is 12 to 15 Because ideally you want to have enough, um, it's a bad word, but intimacy with the clients to be able to know what are their problems, what are their challenges.
But also it allows you to make sure that for each person, um, you're putting them in scenarios they feel comfortable with, they are having their transformation, and the environment is safe. If you put them in a group of 100 or whatever, you just don't have that capacity to look after people. With online delivery, basically I use the acronym of TEAM.
So T stands for technology. Get your tech right , know where your camera is, look at it, and don't be looking away at your notes all the time. Be, um, essentially being aware of the great camera, the great lighting, and all those things that really come into play with technology. E stands for engagement, and what that means is don't just speak at your slide, actually connect with people.
Um, connect with the gallery, but more so when you look at the middle of the lens, that's when people really feel that connection. And also I love to use the chat box, and I looked at great presenters, what do they do? Well, essentially pop everyone on mute, get people regularly responding in that chat, and I want them responding every two to three minutes.
And just like when we do when we, um, do public speaking and face-to-face stuff, we're regularly getting responses from the audience, right? So in the online world, do it in the chat box. Say, "If that's made sense, drop a yes. If you can relate to that, drop an R. If you've saved the document, drop an S." Right?
So you want to be getting those responses as much as you can because caveat, the average attention span now for a human is down to three minutes It's down to three minutes. So as a presenter, if we don't operate with that in mind, then we're kind of over assuming people are paying attention to us. It's not the case.
Mm. It's only three minutes before someone's itching to tw- um, check their Twitter, their X, their whatever, because they just don't have the capacity to be present like we used to 10, 20 years ago. Yeah. Um, so we've got T stands for technology, E engagement, A stands for attention. So capturing and holding people's attention, and that's things like having images on slides, not just words on slides.
It's like popping people in breakout rooms, doing things that actually capture and hold people's attention because w- we can't take it for granted. And then M stands for momentum, and that's all about pace, and we need to appreciate that with online delivery. Again, people are very quick to check their emails, or their dog's just come in the room, or they're sitting there in their pajamas.
So many other things going on. So we've got to capture their attention, and we've got to do it in a way that they feel like, "Wow, I'm part of the experience, and if I'm not paying attention, there's something that I'm going to miss out." So I think if those elements are in there, you're going to do a great, engaging job.
Now, in regards to marketing side of things, again, my comment's going to be deliver so much value that people go, "Wow, what else could this person teach me? What other problems could I solve with them? And what am I going to miss out if I don't work with them?" And I think if you're sharing enough testimonials, and you're sharing enough of the transformation that other people have had, but also in your delivery, there are moments where people also have those transformations, and they go, "Wow, I just did that.
Wow, I just did something I didn't think I was capable of," and they have their breakthroughs, the selling takes care of itself.
Yes. Love that. Yeah. Yeah, because you're serving. Mm. You're serving, right? Which is so good. All right. So tell me some of the, um, icky things that you've seen when it comes to public speaking.
Yeah. You know, things that would lose sales or credibility, um, on stage.
Putting too much on one slide, um, is a big one. Also not thinking about the size font, uh, or the font size. The colors, you know, getting the colors wrong. Even if you're doing a big keynote presentation and the slides are off, but for me it's just have the willingness to go and sit in different seats in your room and make sure people can see your slides.
Um, another one might be, uh, let's say you're incongruent. You actually don't turn up on time. You actually, uh, talk about what other people don't do, and you don't do it yourself as well. Um, what else? Cognitive load is a big one. Um, and that's just the idea of sharing too much information without having understanding and awareness of where someone's at in their journey with you.
Um- Sharing too many disaster stories and too many failures, but not really sharing what did you learn from the failure. And, uh, also, as we often say, war stories. It's great to tell your stories, but how does that impact me? How is that gonna help me? Um, another one is self-intros. Even this morning I spent about an hour and a half rewriting and crafting someone's self-intro because it was all about them.
Now, that may sound weird, but if we don't actually share our credibility and how it's actually gonna help our audience, then we're missing the boat, and we just end up making our head bigger than our body, and people go, "Well, that guy's a little bit full of himself." Um, so something as subtle as a self-intro.
Um, something like not acknowledging your audience. Something like showing up and just reading your script. All these different things are gonna lead to disconnecting from the audience, when really they're the most important thing.
Awesome. So good. Uh, for me, I love to share metaphors. I think that metaphors are a great way to put other people in, in that position- Mm
so that they get a, a true understanding of what that is- Mm ... along with sharing things like statistics or case studies, um, in your presentations. Yeah. But again, it's always outcome focused. It's always about, you know, Mary was like this- Mm ... so that they can see the pain in it, and it's like Mary's now like this, so they can see the aspiration in it.
Mm. So that's great. So when it comes to talking on stage, how does somebody remember a 45-minute presentation? Yeah. All right? I just had to present... I presented in the Philippines, um, last year. I had to speak to 300 people. It was my largest audience ever. Um, and I was lucky enough they did have a little, um, you know, PowerPoint presentation- Mm
on the floor so I could like hit the little clicker and, and kinda look at it.
Mm.
Um, thank goodness. Mm. And I put pictures on it and very little words, and that was behind me on the screen, so at least I could kind of stay on track. But I was like, had they not told me that that presentation was there, I was like, how the hell would I have been able to remember- Mm
45-minute presentation when I had all these frameworks? Like, I use acronyms. Yeah. I often use acronyms. In my mind I've got, you know, you use the TEAM acronym. I, I love acronyms as well, and then I've got, right, you know, tell my story, connection, you know? Hook, connection, credibility, call to action. And I- Mm
I try to frame it all out. But what are some of the things that you would do to try and get somebody to remember, for example, a 45-minute presentation, to present live on stage- ... with a big audience while you're looking at them imagining they're naked?
Haven't done that for a while, if ever. Um, but, um, okay.
So back in 2019 I did a presentation to 500 people at a national conference, uh, so very similar to what you described. And basically, first thing- For me, it really starts out with designing it, and there are 14 to 18 pillars that you can actually choose from when you're crafting a keynote. And the, very similar to what you shared there, there's certain things you can do along the 45-minute track there.
I guess it really comes back to, for me, when I was designing it, I knew the pillar, and then I was wanting to, uh, articulate the words, and I would practice saying the words. Once I got the words right, then I would write them down. Then for the next pillar, I moved on, got the words right, then I wrote it down.
And for that presentation, I actually practiced it 64 times.
Ugh.
64 times, 64 rehearsals, and if you'd come into the same building that we worked in, um, many years ago- Yeah ... you would've seen me in, on the weekend, in that, uh, warehouse, basically just pacing it out from start to finish. And basically, I crafted all the gestures, all the spaces on the stage.
Uh, and then from there, yes, absolutely it was the rehearsals, but on top of that, very similar to you, um, I actually created a story in my mind So I created a journey in my mind from start to finish, and I connected all of the dots together. So when I closed my eyes, I was able to see the story. But for me, one of the biggest mistakes we see people make is they don't rehearse, and they also script it out, so they actually make their rehearsals even harder.
So when you actually, I don't know about other people, but for me, if I sit down and try and write, I find that really hard because, uh, the more we try and chase perfection, the more our brain actually shuts down. So when you're in that free flow of just getting ideas out there, then your brain just flows.
And so for me, when you start with that in mind, and you start to go, "Okay, my first pillar is this. What am I gonna say for the greeting? All right, great. What would I say?" Then you say it, and then you go, "Yeah, I like that. Don't like that. I would refine that." You move on to your next pillar, and then you craft that.
And when you go through that process, it, it's part of you, it's organic and it's authentic, and then you can record that if you want, and then you just try and replicate it and replicate it, and you do it over and over and over again. Now, some people may say 64 is a lot, but Oprah Winfrey, Steve Jobs, they would do it 100 times.
And their keynotes, which would say, seem so natural, they were so well-rehearsed that you never thought they were rehearsed. And for me, once I got that, and that presentation, that 64 times, I know that content so well now that I've been able to then chop it up, and I can now make mini presentations out of it, and I can now go and do it at different audiences, but all I need to do is just rejig certain content, and I'm good to go.
But that's what we often forget. A great keynote presenter normally only has one great keynote that they ever travel around and do, and they've just mastered it so well, and people go, "Oh, wow, that's amazing. It looks like the first time they've done it." It's like, "No. No." Yeah. Um, so just to cap that off, don't script it , um, rehearse it, and have a story in your mind.
And definitely use the acronyms, use the metaphors, and yeah, use your slides, um, to trigger thoughts. Absolutely you can do that. Um, but yeah, I've found that if you rehearse enough, when you show up, you can just be yourself because you know your content so well.
So good. Um, and I've learnt, uh, the hard way as well for a few times because sometimes you'll go, and they'll say there is a, a, like a presentation slide for you.
Mm-hmm. Then there hasn't been. Yeah. So you, you've got to be able to do it, or they've said, "Oh, we'll have a lectern."
Mm.
So you've got a clipboard, 'cause I'm a clipboard girl, and they're like, "No lectern when you get there. Sorry, can't find one."
Yeah.
Um, or my favorite, my absolute favorite, it's happened to me twice before.
Once it was where I was supposed to speak on a specific topic. They okayed it. They did everything, and this was 200 people. Um, I got there, and the prese- presenter before basically spoke on exactly the same topic. And what I was gonna say was actually gonna be in conflict with what that person was gonna say Oh, wow So I had to actually wing it and go, "I'm gonna have to change all of that now- Mm
and speak into something else," 'cause I didn't wanna disregard her.
Mm.
I was like, "I'm gonna focus less on that and more on that." So I had to literally redo it. Mm. So I love that you said, you know, there's gotta be some structure there. There's gotta be rehearsing there, but you still gotta be engaged. You still gotta be, um, with your audience- Yeah
um, feel your audience as well- Mm ... and be able to pivot on the spot as well. So for me, I don't really write it. I love dot points. Mm, mm. I'm like, dot point that pillar, dot point that pillar, and then- Yeah ... use my acronyms, and- Mm ... and that's how I do it. So my gosh, always so much to learn. But you gotta be prepared, I think.
It's really important. You gotta be prepared for all these things that can actually happen on the day. And, uh, another time, the second time was when, um, I went... I was told I'm gonna s- talk at a mortgage broker conference, and I thought I was talking to mortgage brokers. Mm. But when I got there, it wasn't mortgage brokers.
It was someone else. So my entire presentation was statistics, metaphors, case studies, and everything was all gonna talk to mortgage brokers- Yeah ... and their particular thing, and it ended up being, like, real estate agents or buyer's agents or something else. Like, I- they had not given me the right brief, so I had to literally go to the bathroom and go, "What am I gonna talk about?"
Uh-huh.
And come up with new case studies. Mm. Come up... Like, I still kept my acronyms, but I had to change my stories to make it relevant, and I think that that's the That's, that shows a true professional- Yeah ... when you can actually do that.
Yeah, 100%, 100%. Presenting is both an art and a science, and the art is being able to read the room, see the emotions, the people side of things.
And the science is about, well, when are you gonna say it? How are you gonna say it? And how do you say it in a way that truly impacts an audience? But how do you say it in a way that people understand it, can go away and use it, and don't just have that moment of, "Oh, that was nice. Dopamine hit." But go away and actually ponder it, think about it, and from a marketing perspective go, "Oh, that person, I've got that problem now.
Who was that person that solves that problem?" And they go and Google you. Yes. And that's really where future relationships are built. Um, and for me, it's, yeah, the whole show up and throw up, the whole show up and not have any structure to what you're doing, uh, is, is such an important piece. But yeah, I've, I mean, the number of times I've shown up and I haven't been able to use the screen at all, or, you know, the AI thing, the latest thing I loved just wasn't available on that day, or whatever it may be.
But innovation and creativity is something you develop over time, and you have to develop very quickly 'cause you never know what you'll be able to, uh, what'll happen on the day. And, uh, yeah, I mean, when Virgin Airlines was kind enough to send my bag, uh, to Adelaide instead of Melbourne, and I showed up and I've got no equipment at all, you still gotta be professional, and the show must go on, right?
Yeah, 100%. Mm. So I've done that. I've put, uh, put my, my dot points-
Yeah ...
on my phone in notes- ... just in case the laptop, something happens with the laptop, right? Yeah. And I print it out. I've always got a printed- Mm-hmm ... clipboard as well. Like- Yeah ... I'm ridiculous. Um, so I- It's a good plan ... have to say this though, right?
The whole purpose of a workshop and public speaking, yes, it is to make an impact- Mm-hmm ... but it's also to make a sale. Mm-hmm. It's also to build that know, like, and trust, make that transformation, but also to be able to get more clients down the road. So at the end of the day, part of that structure has obviously gotta be to follow me on social media, leave a review for me, um, you know, jump onto my email list, um, book a call- Mm
or buy right now. I'm not one of those people who's like rush to the back of the room. That drives me nuts. But, um, so are those some of the things that you'd say, like, that are, are important part of a workshop? Uh- And speaking, like-
Yes. So I'm gonna say something a little bit controversial Sure. Go ... but I'm sure you'll like it.
Yes. So for me, I'm very particular about who I let in my room. So I'm very big on push and pull marketing. I'm very big on I w- I want to speak to the right people, and I want to speak to the people that I really connect with. So if you're the kind of person that likes this, wants to have this, and doesn't like that, and I really want to ha- that very clear in my mind, who are my ideal clients?
Yeah. And I've had a number of people that say, "I want to come to your workshop," and I've literally said to them, "No, you're not the right person."
Mm.
And I think when we are very clear on that in our mind, um, and we also share that in our presentations and in our workshops, it makes such a difference because people go, "Well, okay, if I come along to that event, this is the kind of environment I'll be in, and I'll also be safe, and I'll also be able to get that transformation."
So the other thing is in regards to marketing strategies, I'm not really a, uh, one video closer kind of person. I'm more of a long game kind of let's consistently deliver value on social, and a lot of the stuff I do is on LinkedIn. So I'm regularly posting on LinkedIn, and then every maybe seventh or eighth post, I'll say, "If you want to find out more, come along to this event."
And that's pretty much all I'll say. But because my followers are so strong, and I've got such commitment there, they're regularly seeing that, and then they'll see one post that'll be like, "I love that idea." You know, s- uh, 50 other posts they may not have liked, but that one, that may spark a PM or a conversation with me, and that's when I say, "If you want to find out more, you may be a great fit for the event that I'm coming, that I'm running in a f- you know, few weeks.
Did you want to find out more?" And they go, "Yes, absolutely." So it's sort of by the time we've got that interaction, they're already warmed up so much. And, um, whenever I'm looking to put out content, it's looking to build that relationship first as opposed to dropping the buy now, as you said there. Mm. But I think for me, as I said, the push-pull, when I got really clear on that, the scarcity mindset goes away.
Mm. And I know the value I can deliver based on the people I've worked with pre- previously, and I know the people that are not suited to that value and won't, and I know what it actually takes for that transformation to happen. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. And yeah, fantastic. I agree 100%- Mm
with all of that. I think when it comes to the public speaking, though- Mm ... like if I'm speaking, and I'm a speaker, for example, and there's like six other speakers on the day, and somebody's sitting there, we know the attention spans are not, are not good for them. Um, so you come up, your name's over there, you get to the end of your presentation, I think it is sort of, I feel it's important to say, "Look, if you are this person and you really, really like this, this is how we can connect."
Mm. Yeah,
100%. Just making sure that you do just say that little-
Oh,
100% ... thing at the end, because- Yeah ... and, you know, whether or not it's giving them a free resource or scan, you know, "This, I've put this together as a checklist," or, "Here are my summary notes." Mm. Yeah. I, I often give a summary of my notes. Mm. I go, "Look, I know this might be overwhelming for you.
If you just want my notes, I can give you all my notes." Yeah. "Just email me, and I'll give you my notes," just to close that gap-
Yeah ...
between you and them.
I think if you've got a booth at the end, or if you've got a table at the end, or if you've got a next contact point- Yeah ... that's great, and give them a reason to come.
Say, "All right. We've just gone through the top seven strategies, but we've only gone through the first three. If you want the rest, come and see me at the back of the room, and, and, uh, if you give me your email address, happy to give them to you." Um, so you can definitely, I just see everything as a funnel.
Yeah. And basically, it's what is the next step? What is the next step? What is the next step? But caveat to that is I only want the right people taking the next step. So I may have a, you know, a list of 100,000 people, but I want the right people on that list. And so, um, it's always a tension point, being overly promotive or overly promoting one's services and being too salesy versus letting people know what's available.
And so there's that tension there, and sort of being in the middle If you're the kind of person wants more, here is what's more, and here's how to get the more. But also, in order to get that more, I do need something from you. Mm-hmm. And that is your email address.
Yeah. Yeah. So good. Well, marketing is all about, you know, um, qualifying and disqualifying the right people- Yeah
and communicating your point of difference- Mm ... over everything else, so.
And also letting them know what else you have a- to available, because unless you let them know you've got an event coming
up- They don't know ...
they
wouldn't know. They do not know. No. Most people don't know. Mm. They go, "Oh, I didn't even realize that that's something that you do", you know?
Mm,
mm.
So because everybody presumes that everyone sees every post that you
make. No, no, uh-huh. And they don't. Yeah. No, they don't. That's why... Oh, yeah.
Anyway, Mark, this has been amazing. Thanks so much for the chat today. Thanks for having me. Um, it's been awesome having you. Uh, this is another episode of the Meaningful Marketing Podcast.
If you haven't already, please make sure to like, subscribe, um, or comment below. Also, if you'd like to send me a private message and let me know, uh, what you got out of the session today, or if there's any other content you'd like me to create, please go ahead and send that to me through on Facebook. Um, thanks again.
Chantal Gerardy, see ya. Thanks for listening in. Meaningful Marketing is all about you making your marketing meaningful. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please hit that subscribe button, for subscribing means that you won't miss out on future episodes all about marketing and motivation. Stay inspired, stay focused, and make your marketing meaningful.